People say they are not qualified to wield whatever influence they have with the organization. Maybe so, but none of us really know the true extent of their actual influence or their true level of competance. Their birth situation does not mean they are NOT qualified any more than it means they ARE qualified.
We are all frustrated and want better results. So there is a tendency to look to assign blame. The Mara family are certainly the low hanging fruit (They are the constant). We all want to see a change in results and any change can bring hope (QB, Coach, GM, Org, etc.) many will call for that.
I do not have the answer. I do not think constant change is the way. I think that JS is a better than average GM and Dabol is a better than average coach. I think the roster is also better than average. I think there is a sense of doom, defeat, fear, and depression that has been ingrained. It is VERY difficult to break through that wall.
Personally, I would like to see the team play a little more agressively. Play to win rather than playing not to lose. A great example is the Giant's offensive approach (since the later years of TC) seems to be to play to get to a 3rd and manageable. That's great except that you are not going to make every one and the longer a drive lasts, the more likely a mistake occurs (Sack, turnover, drop, misfire). The best teams score before a mistake can be made.
Feel free to comment or opine.
Stories of how they were once ball boys from Mara family loyalists don’t earn them any respect
The proof is in the pudding. The Giants have been awful for 12 years. One of the worst franchises in all of sports. That’s a Mara mess.
Stories of how they were once ball boys from Mara family loyalists don’t earn them any respect
Didn’t Chris Mara do just that, leave and work somewhere else before returning?
Perhaps it would make more interesting for you to watch. But I don't think going to help.
Can it hurt? Probably not. However we should have a better plan.
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would be to go to other orgs and work for a while. If unbiased colleagues with no family connection speak highly of their acumen and performance after that, they would earn the respect they seek
Stories of how they were once ball boys from Mara family loyalists don’t earn them any respect
Didn’t Chris Mara do just that, leave and work somewhere else before returning?
Did he? I honestly don’t remember
There are those that claim he and Tim are very capable and don’t deserve the criticism. I agree we can’t tell for sure how to parcel out blame for the past dozen years, and they are an easy target. It’s also inherently flawed when multiple members of the ownership family have to be involved in decisions big and small
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would be to go to other orgs and work for a while. If unbiased colleagues with no family connection speak highly of their acumen and performance after that, they would earn the respect they seek
Stories of how they were once ball boys from Mara family loyalists don’t earn them any respect
Didn’t Chris Mara do just that, leave and work somewhere else before returning?
He worked for a scouting service and then was the GM for the NJ Gladiators. Tim O'Donnell also worked at Notre Dame.
There was an effort to get them experience outside of the organization, but that still doesn't mean they're good at their jobs. People tend not to put in the same effort when they know they won't face any repercussions...
He worked for a scouting service and then was the GM for the NJ Gladiators. Tim O'Donnell also worked at Notre Dame.
There was an effort to get them experience outside of the organization, but that still doesn't mean they're good at their jobs. People tend not to put in the same effort when they know they won't face any repercussions...
Does Tim get the job at Notre Dame if Charlie Weis wasn't a former Giants assistant coach?
I think we all know the answer.
The only thing I can find about ProRate Inc (where Chris worked) is that it was an independent scouting company contracted by "as many as" 15 NFL teams to provide an evaluation of the NFL free agent market. That's all from his bio on Giants.com.
We wouldn't be talking about this if the Giants weren't a complete dumpster fire, but they are and Mara fingerprints are all over it.
Why is the team 2-5, 0-3 in the division, and scored a total of 10 points in the last two weeks? Bad bounces?
It’s good to hear that the team is actually good though.
We are all entitled to our opinions, but this isn’t analysis, it is rah-rah Go Giants nonsense.
It’s a glaring conflict of interest, having someone who nominally reports to the GM, while at the same time, the GM reports to the owners (Chris and T-Mac). If that’s not a fuck3d up situation, I don’t know what is. At least in Dallas, Jerry and Steven give themselves the appropriate titles.
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would be to go to other orgs and work for a while. If unbiased colleagues with no family connection speak highly of their acumen and performance after that, they would earn the respect they seek
Stories of how they were once ball boys from Mara family loyalists don’t earn them any respect
Didn’t Chris Mara do just that, leave and work somewhere else before returning?
He ran his own consulting shop for a couple of years, but think about that. If you were the owner of another team, would you hire one of the owners of another franchise as a consultant? Of course not. That’s why he ran back home.
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He worked for a scouting service and then was the GM for the NJ Gladiators. Tim O'Donnell also worked at Notre Dame.
There was an effort to get them experience outside of the organization, but that still doesn't mean they're good at their jobs. People tend not to put in the same effort when they know they won't face any repercussions...
Does Tim get the job at Notre Dame if Charlie Weis wasn't a former Giants assistant coach?
I think we all know the answer.
The only thing I can find about ProRate Inc (where Chris worked) is that it was an independent scouting company contracted by "as many as" 15 NFL teams to provide an evaluation of the NFL free agent market. That's all from his bio on Giants.com.
We wouldn't be talking about this if the Giants weren't a complete dumpster fire, but they are and Mara fingerprints are all over it.
Replying to the bold portion only. This is not a anomaly to Tim. This happens in every sport
Every team that is family run, has members within the organization, its not just the Giants. Go look at Dallas and Pittsburgh as examples
Replying to the bold portion only. This is not a anomaly to Tim. This happens in every sport
Every team that is family run, has members within the organization, its not just the Giants. Go look at Dallas and Pittsburgh as examples
Great. And if the Giants weren't a colossal failure for literally the entire time the nephew has been a part of the organization, nobody would care.
But they have been. Nobody knows his qualifications because he doesn't need to have anything other than his name.
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Replying to the bold portion only. This is not a anomaly to Tim. This happens in every sport
Every team that is family run, has members within the organization, its not just the Giants. Go look at Dallas and Pittsburgh as examples
Great. And if the Giants weren't a colossal failure for literally the entire time the nephew has been a part of the organization, nobody would care.
But they have been. Nobody knows his qualifications because he doesn't need to have anything other than his name.
8 years of experience at a top 20 college program including, recruiting and player personal. Then hired by the Giants as a scout and worked his way up the chain. It doesn't sound like he was brought in from his job on wall street and took over player personal.
He's been the director of player personal the last 4 years and the roster has seen major turnover, maybe he has a part in those changes. But since neither of us work in the building, we don't know.
And you know this how? And if you hate this forum so much, please leave. No one will miss you.
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In comment 16659414 jestersdead said:
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Replying to the bold portion only. This is not a anomaly to Tim. This happens in every sport
Every team that is family run, has members within the organization, its not just the Giants. Go look at Dallas and Pittsburgh as examples
Great. And if the Giants weren't a colossal failure for literally the entire time the nephew has been a part of the organization, nobody would care.
But they have been. Nobody knows his qualifications because he doesn't need to have anything other than his name.
8 years of experience at a top 20 college program including, recruiting and player personal. Then hired by the Giants as a scout and worked his way up the chain. It doesn't sound like he was brought in from his job on wall street and took over player personal.
He's been the director of player personal the last 4 years and the roster has seen major turnover, maybe he has a part in those changes. But since neither of us work in the building, we don't know.
“Worked his way up the chain”.
Good lord you people never tire of assuming the Maras know how to run a football team.
Make him the goddamn GM then. Let’s see what he can do.
For what it’s worth, the nephew's career at Notre Dame was while Charlie Weis ran the program into the ground and Brian Kelly got a student videographer killed.
He’s The Nephew, but sure…worked his way up the chain…
When these guys start, they're making less than minimum wage. And there are a lot of them who want these jobs. Its far from a perfect meritocracy, but everyone who you as a fan didn't like (even losers like Dave Gettleman, horrible coaches like Joe Judge) actually did bust their ass to move up the chain.
If you've ever known anyone in coaching or football ops, it is a hard life for a lot of years until you are good/persistent/lucky enough to actually make a livable salary. And even when you've made it, you're still operating with zero job security
The Maras are rich, had their jobs handed to them, and have as much job security as they want. What they did is nothing - nothing - like the path of someone who actually worked their way up the chain.
When these guys start, they're making less than minimum wage. And there are a lot of them who want these jobs. Its far from a perfect meritocracy, but everyone who you as a fan didn't like (even losers like Dave Gettleman, horrible coaches like Joe Judge) actually did bust their ass to move up the chain.
If you've ever known anyone in coaching or football ops, it is a hard life for a lot of years until you are good/persistent/lucky enough to actually make a livable salary. And even when you've made it, you're still operating with zero job security
The Maras are rich, had their jobs handed to them, and have as much job security as they want. What they did is nothing - nothing - like the path of someone who actually worked their way up the chain.
You could say the same thing about any family run business in the country. So basically with that thinking anyone who’s family had started a business are never justified becoming involved with it.
This franchise has been one of the worst for over the last 10 years. Their product has been unwatchable for say 10 out of 12 years. Ownership her is incapable and inept. If you think they are good at their jobs ok. But I'd suggest that being one of the worst teams best after year for over a decade is enough data for anyone.
If it's not you need go to 23 and me and find out how closely related mom and dad are.
Case closed.
[quote] Who built a better than average roster. That better than average roster is coached by a better than average coach. OK.
Why is the team 2-5, 0-3 in the division, and scored a total of 10 points in the last two weeks? Bad bounces?
It’s good to hear that the team is actually good though.
We are all entitled to our opinions, but this isn’t analysis, it is rah-rah Go Giants nonsense.
It is not a rah rah post. Analysis? The roster has been analyzed countless times. I did it in a post towards the beginning of the year. Sy has done it a bunch of times. Very few if any thought it was bottom tier. Did you?
Dabol was coach of the year in 2022. Many said it was a minor miracle that we won 6 games last year. The best coach? No, but hardly the worst. I disagree with a lot of what he does - but he is objectively at least average.
JS 2024 draft class was just ranked first in the league. The cap situation is realatively good. There are a lot of people in the organization that were well respected prior to coming to the Giants. He is at least average.
That should yield at least average results and it has not. I gave you my opinion on what is happening. There are many others. What would YOU do Mikey? Not in hindsight - what would YOU do now? I am a little tired of people who snipe at others opinions while offering NOTHING.
My opinion: I would keep the coaching staff and the GM. I would continue to upgrade the overall roster and try to have another good draft. QB obviously needs to be addressed.I have supported DJ (not blindly) in the past, but better options than what we have now are needed. CB, OL, and DL are top of list for upgrade.
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actually did work their way up. And I'm not saying they don't deserve to be fired. But all the people that we as fans want to see fired started their careers absolutely grinding for no money. For a long time.
When these guys start, they're making less than minimum wage. And there are a lot of them who want these jobs. Its far from a perfect meritocracy, but everyone who you as a fan didn't like (even losers like Dave Gettleman, horrible coaches like Joe Judge) actually did bust their ass to move up the chain.
If you've ever known anyone in coaching or football ops, it is a hard life for a lot of years until you are good/persistent/lucky enough to actually make a livable salary. And even when you've made it, you're still operating with zero job security
The Maras are rich, had their jobs handed to them, and have as much job security as they want. What they did is nothing - nothing - like the path of someone who actually worked their way up the chain.
You could say the same thing about any family run business in the country. So basically with that thinking anyone who’s family had started a business are never justified becoming involved with it.
Indeed you could say that. But if a regular family run business was run by assclowns like these guys, they would go bankrupt. To survive they would either have to improve or hire someone competent as the CEO. The loser Maras cannot fail financially. They can keep playing Franchise Mode as long as they want without any decline in their livelihood.
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In comment 16659359 mfsd said:
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would be to go to other orgs and work for a while. If unbiased colleagues with no family connection speak highly of their acumen and performance after that, they would earn the respect they seek
Stories of how they were once ball boys from Mara family loyalists don’t earn them any respect
Didn’t Chris Mara do just that, leave and work somewhere else before returning?
He worked for a scouting service and then was the GM for the NJ Gladiators. Tim O'Donnell also worked at Notre Dame.
There was an effort to get them experience outside of the organization, but that still doesn't mean they're good at their jobs. People tend not to put in the same effort when they know they won't face any repercussions...
Just like working for the government
I would strongly imagine that working for *Notre Dame* is also a matter of connections and back channels.
I would strongly imagine that working for *Notre Dame* is also a matter of connections and back channels.
There you go brother. I retired from the AF after 32 years and I’ve seen it all.
Did someone forget the 160 mill Jones contract
How many games did we lose not having a kicker
How about not having a swing tackle for the second time
Having a punt returner who never returned punts
Bust after bust on the o line draft picks yes JMS also
Trading for injury prone Waller with no games played clause
How about insisting on throwing the ball when our qb stinks
Never ready for the beginning of the season
Having no quality back up qb
How about a hideous record after the first half of 2022
How about turning the coaching staff over after two years
How about taking play calling away from you coordinator and then doing a worse job
How about averaging 15 points a game for two years
How about rarely wining at home
How about rarely scoring at home
Lets give Daboll and Schoen 6 years because that is what they gave Jones. I mean does it take 6 years to evaluate shitty performance.
If you hire someone to work for you does it take 3 years to determine they are not good at their job?
Hey buddy don't worry in another 3 years my auto mechanic will be able to fix you car!!!!
Good organizations make good hiring decisions and if they make a mistake they admit it early and move on.
Giants make bad hiring decisions and that is on Mara.
The most important job of a CEO is making good hires and Mara is terrible at that and is the reason the Giants stink.