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Fans to hold rally against PSL's this Saturday at Stadium

YANKEE27 : 8/20/2008 3:15 pm
For those interested, it is being held 3 hours before kickoff of the annual Giants vs Jets preseason game. Fans of both the Jets and Giants are being asked to get involved.

For more info, the website is attached. The group is offering several alternatives to the current PSL plan.
Link - ( New Window )
A plane with a banner  
Big Blue '56 : 8/20/2008 3:17 pm : link
works better
A nice alternative...  
Giantfan in skinland : 8/20/2008 3:18 pm : link
would be DSLs. I definitely prefer those to PSLs.
I admire  
Go Terps : 8/20/2008 3:20 pm : link
these guys for putting the effort together.
More info  
YANKEE27 : 8/20/2008 3:21 pm : link
on this rally from the Bergen Record
Link - ( New Window )
MetsAreBack : 8/20/2008 3:21 pm : link
"help support a plan to make preseason games optional"

good luck with that. teams should just end this f'g charade, raise regular season ticket prices by 20% and make preseason tickets cost $20 each. I'm sick of this debate about preseason ticket costs when everybody knows they're high to offset an underpriced regular season ticket.
raise the coaches corner  
section8 : 8/20/2008 3:26 pm : link
this is a great quote

"If the PSL costs for the new Giants / Jets Stadium were increased to $100,000 on the Coaches Club seats, leaving the Field One Section PSL at $20,000, and increasing the PSL cost on the 7,085 Mezzanine Club A & B seats to $20,000"

that really eliminates the chance of any fan remaining in those seats. If they propose raising the price to 100k you would think they could come up with a proposed season ticket as well. How long will it take if you purchased 2 seats at 200k for the benefit of paying the 40k and $1400 per game.
How many of the new stadiums that have opened since  
BIG FRED : 8/20/2008 3:34 pm : link
2001 have psl's ?
Power to the people!  
truebluelarry : 8/20/2008 3:36 pm : link
Give 'em hell, I love it!
section8 : 8/20/2008 3:39 pm : link
12 of 32 teams have PSLs
I was surprised to find out  
Randy in CT : 8/20/2008 3:43 pm : link
that my cousin is going to pay his 10,000 per ticket PSL's. He looks at it as an investment--so he can continue to go to the games and then at some point sell the PSLs for a nice profit.
I'd go  
Tuggle : 8/20/2008 3:47 pm : link
I'd go but there won't be any parking!!
Giantfan in skinland : 8/20/2008 3:49 pm : link
if he's got the cash....I think his reasoning makes sense.
Preseason games ARE optional  
SLIM : 8/20/2008 3:49 pm : link
so are PSL's and regular season games. If you don't feel like paying for them, you have options... don't watch the games, watch on TV, etc.
does this mean....  
BillKo : 8/20/2008 3:56 pm : link
a number of season ticket holders are ending their subscription come 2010????
HopeJ : 8/20/2008 4:08 pm : link
yes it does.
Tough subject  
mstyles22 : 8/20/2008 4:14 pm : link
Giants tickets are a luxury item. As much as people like to play the "Wellington Mara wouldn't have done this card", the bottom line is that the Giants are going to be playing in the nicest football stadiums (or at least top 3) in the world in 2 years.

Nice things cost money and fans would be crazy to think they wouldn't have to absorb some of that cost.

It was a tough pill to swallow for me at first, but I still paid it because I look at it as an investment, not a sunk cost.
I only see one "alternative" proposed  
GiantsLaw : 8/20/2008 4:16 pm : link
Davisian : 8/20/2008 4:16 pm : link
Holy crap  
Sgrcts : 8/20/2008 4:19 pm : link
some of their suggestions are freaking AWFUL.

Lets go through them-

Personal Seat Licenses on Only the Best Seats.

This is beyond stupid. So basically, make the people who are buying the expensive seats pay for yours as well? I'm a bleeding heart liberal, but thats such an awful idea.

Five Year Ticket and Parking Price Freeze.

Probably the only somewhat sensible idea here.

Right to Advance Purchase Tickets to Other Stadium Event.

So the PSL owners can scalp tickets and screw people wanting to see concerts and stuff?

Make the Purchase of Preseason Tickets and Preseason Parking Passes Optional.

Fat chance.

Personal Seat License Fees to be Tax Deductible.

Uhhhhhh no? Besides the fact that a luxury item shouldn't be tax deductible, how does this benefit NY residents?

Allow Food and Drinks to be Brought Into the New Stadium.

Not a bad idea but if this is all you need to be OK with the money spent on PSL's, your not THAT upset about it.

I've got seats in sec206.  
Dodge : 8/20/2008 4:29 pm : link
I can't afford the 15,000 bucks for it.

Ah well.
giants90 : 8/20/2008 4:42 pm : link
a shame
you should get some limited chance  
lalalalala : 8/20/2008 4:42 pm : link

to buy tickets for other Giants/Jets Stadium events. That's a pretty standard STH perk for teams that control their building. The Devils are hardly fan friendly, but they do this. For example, they have Metallica coming in in January and the general public is going to get screwed over in that maybe 5-6,000 tickets will be off the market before it even goes on sale.
Right to Advance Purchase Tickets to Other Stadium Event.  
Bino5 : 8/20/2008 5:24 pm : link
Other stadiums with PSL's offer this. The problem is those stadiums only have 1 team...
PSLs are a disgrace  
Pete in Marietta : 8/20/2008 6:09 pm : link
PSL's are the 21st century  
Phil in LA : 8/20/2008 6:28 pm : link
and people need to stop whining about them. Season tickets are not a gift from God. The sellers have the right to get as much as they can for them.
Asking someone  
YANKEE27 : 8/20/2008 8:40 pm : link
to pay $20,000 for something, and not knowing exactly what it is you are getting is a large part of the problem.

You need to pay the entire PSL fee, and then the Giants will let you know where your PSL is.

When Giants Stadium is knocked down, it will have about $119 million in remaining debt. Will the Giants or Jets owners be paying for it? No-no the New Jersey taxpayers will be paying for it.

The Colts new stadium has been completed at a cost of $600 million, or about $1 billion less than what the Tisch and Mara family's were able to negotiate.

Heck, in PSL's alone, the Giants and Jets are charging their fans over $800 million. You could build 2 Arizona Cardinal stadiums with that kind of dough.

The devil is in the details on this scam.

Also worth noting is that the Yankees are building a new stadium with no PSL's?
The devil in the details?  
Shawn in Jersey : 8/20/2008 8:50 pm : link
Like the minor detail of construction costs being much higher in NJ then Indianopolis
YANKEE27 : 8/20/2008 9:00 pm : link
The Arizona Stadium opened less than a year ago at a cost of just over $400 million.

What things in your life have had a 400% increase? Sure things cost more in this area, but how much of the $1.6 billion is sticks and bricks and how much falls into "other costs".

Ever think that maybe the owners of the Colts and Cardinals were a bit more skilled at getting their stadiums built?

Ever consider that other owners may have had better strategies on debt?

Like I said, the devil is in the details.
Owners of the Colts and Cardinals  
BigBlueCane : 8/20/2008 9:06 pm : link
aren't dealing with the bs and crap that goes with building and working in the New York and New Jersey areas.
You can also buy  
tomtalkin : 8/20/2008 9:11 pm : link
a 4 BR 2BA 3200sf. house in Indianapolis for under $150K
Fpr $166K in East Rutherford you can get a 655sf. 2 BR 1BA house

Indy home owners must also be great negotiators

Fact is in NYC & NJ it costs alot more to buy or build anything than it does in Indy or Arizona.

Indy big house
NJ small house which costs more - ( New Window )
YANKEE27 : 8/20/2008 9:16 pm : link
Thanks for helping with my next point.

George, Hank, and Hal are doing their building in New York. There is NO COMPARISON when it comes to New York vs New Jersey on the cost of almost anything. Their new stadium is costing $1.3 billion and will not have PSL's. The construction timeframe is the same as the Giants new stadium.

Ever eat in a good NY restaurant? Better bring the big wallet. Everything in NY is more expensive than in NJ-. Except stadium costs.
costs and borrowing costs are also through the roof  
lalalalala : 8/20/2008 9:19 pm : link

They picked the wrong year to be building. I'll eat crow on this if the Pittsburgh Penguins arena gets built somewhere near budget. If it gets built.
Giantfan in skinland : 8/20/2008 9:22 pm : link
So just show me the revenue stream the Giants and Jets have equivalent to the Yankees (even combined) and I think you've made your point.
YANKEE27 : 8/20/2008 9:32 pm : link
their higher revenue streams are further evidence that they are better business people.

With my Yankee tickets, the Yankees have you come to the stadium in the offseason, and literally sit in your seats.

With the Giants, its pay 100% of the PSL cost, and settle for whatever seats we give you.

The Giants have had a history of moving season ticket holders to bigger venues(Polo Grounds to Yankee Stadium, Yankee Stadium to Giants Stadium) yet giving them much poorer seat locations-even though the stadiums had significantly more seating.

Now season ticket holders are going to pay PSL's, and then watch as the current batch of politicians and friends get the choice seats and the season ticket holders settle for whats left.
Maybe you're right....  
Giantfan in skinland : 8/20/2008 11:20 pm : link
Does that change the fact that:

a) their building costs were relatively close to that of the football stadium?
b) they have a way of financing it based on their revenue streams that the Giants/Jets simply do not?
Scyber : 8/21/2008 12:34 am : link
Doesn't the new Yankee stadium use like $400+ million of taxpayer money? Which is roughly the same amount (pre-tax) that the giants expect to raise via the PSLs.

It seems fairer to raise that money from the tens of thousands of fans that will use the facilities than the millions of people in the state that may never use it.
YANKEE27 : 8/21/2008 8:32 am : link
I have no problem with the whole concept of PSL's. If the choice is fans pay or taxpayers pay, I completely agree it should be the fans.

What I do have is history with the Giants and seating (since 1948). I read some the posts about PSL's and some people are certain they are going to make money with them.

First of all, the Giants should have put together a PSL plan that would have started much closer to the completion of the stadium. Before anyone pays for a PSL, they should have the right to visit the exact seat they will be purchasing for the next 30 years.

I point this out because some Giants fans are going to shell out $20,000 per seat. These people "assume" that other fans in those seating areas will not be able to afford it and that those that do pay "will be getting even better seat locations than we now have". That's the fantasy in all of this.

Giants fans that buy the PSL's will now own an asset they have not owned before. Most are assuming (just like I did when the Giants moved from the Polo Grounds to Yankee Stadium and then from Yankee Stadium to Giants Stadium) that seat locations would improve in a much larger stadium (in each Giants move, the new stadium had about 15,000 more seats).

Trust me, thats not happening. For the most part, the insiders will get the very best locations. I witnessed my own seats getting significantly WORSE with each time the Giants moved to a new stadium.

If there is only one message I can get out to Giants fans, let it be that. If you are going to buy PSL's, please do so knowing that the Giants will not tell you a seat location until all your money is paid and at that point, you will have no say in the "asset" you are acquiring. Go into PSL's knowing that they are an asset whose value will be directly tied to your seat location.

Fully expect your current seat location to become a lesser seat location in the new stadium. I have mistakenly been naive enough to think-bigger stadium means better seat location. Now with the added cost of PSL's, Giants fans are welcome to pay the PSL's, but I just hope that they understand the way things really work.
Bigger Stadium  
HopeJ : 8/21/2008 10:01 am : link
...not really. they're only adding about 3000 additional 'general' seats. that's about additional 2 sections of in the current location.
A Friend And I Were Discussing  
HopeJ : 8/21/2008 10:03 am : link
that his paying $40,000 doesn't guarantee that he'll be back in his front row seats come opening day 2010...why can't/won't they do that?

how hard is it to get that straight BEFORE $$$ is transferred?
YANKEE27 : 8/21/2008 12:04 pm : link
my point on the bigger stadium relates to the Giants first 2 moves. With the upcoming move, you are going to be seeing long time season ticket holders say no to PSL's.

You won't see the current season ticket holders that take PSL's get their seats improved. Rather, the insiders will be allowed to scoop up the best seats. Unfortunately, there will be so many insiders (just like at Yankee Stadium and Giants Stadium) that the result will be season ticket holders paying PSL's, but getting lesser seat locations.

Sorry to be the bearer of bad news, but I've lived it twice with the Giants-long time season ticket holder get worse seats in a move to a new stadium.

When my Dad got the families original seats at the Polo Grounds, the Giants only had 3,000 season ticket holders. Back then, families went to church on a Sunday morning. After church, the mothers and kids went home,and the Dad's went to the walk-up ticket windows and bought the ticket they could afford for that particular Sunday.

It was rare to be a season ticket holder back then. Because of that (my Dad was way ahead of his time by having season tickets), we had OUTSTANDING seats at the Polo Grounds. Its amazing how much the Giants have changed our location with the two prior stadium moves.

I understand the PSL concept, but don't appreciate laying out money without knowing what I'm getting. I don't care if a season ticket holder has had seats for over 60 year (like my family), or over 60 days-they should all be allowed to put their butt in seat PRIOR to writing a PSL check.

Trust me, if someone goes to sell their PSL down the road, the value will be driven by one and only one thing-SEAT LOCATION. No one in the secondary market will buy your PSL without knowing the location-yet the Giants expect season ticket holders in the primary market to buy PSL's "site unseen". Not a great way to treat long time customers.
As Current Tix Holders  
HopeJ : 8/21/2008 12:21 pm : link
is there nothing we can do to get that straight? the seat location i mean.

funny, the move from Yankee stadium to Giants Stadium worked well for my Dad. the group he was with in the Bronx was moved basically intact, to East Rutherford. one of the guyz last year wrote the team saying we understand we might not be in the exact same location, but we wanted to stay together. after nearly 50 years, parting would indeed be sorrowful. i consider those men and women, family.
YANKEE27, you are 100% correct.  
truebluelarry : 8/21/2008 12:49 pm : link
I remember going to the games with my father years ago, and he used to get upset when the topic of his seats at Old Yankee Stadium (as he called it), which were located on the 25 yard line vs. our seats at Giants Stadium, which are in the end zone.
Bubba : 8/21/2008 1:12 pm : link
Do you plan on paying the PSL?
HopeJ : 8/21/2008 1:24 pm : link
at the moment, no. a single income among other things makes $10K (+$2,400) hard to justify.
HopeJ : 8/21/2008 1:25 pm : link
if i hit the number between now and the due date ;O)
Hope, I hear you load and clear.  
Bubba : 8/21/2008 1:28 pm : link
Between the Jets and Giants I have 10 tickets. I'm in the process of negotiating with friends to form a partnership in the hopes of keeping the tickets. Its hard to believe I or anyone should have to go through these measures just to watch a #$@^$%# football game. Excuse the language but I really feel betrayed.
Baseball stadiums don't need PSL's  
Phil in LA : 8/21/2008 1:51 pm : link
cause they have 81 home games a year. NFL teams have 1/10th of that.
Randy in CT : 8/21/2008 1:55 pm : link
I think Phil should pony up and pay for all BBIers PSL fees.
PSLs = extortion  
Talkin' Football : 8/21/2008 3:40 pm : link
Looks like the new generation of Maras and Tischs are nothing like the old. This is nothing more than a money grab by the kids, legalized extortion. Where will it stop? It's a fine thank you to the fans who have so faithfully supported this team for 80+ years.

I hope it all backfires on the ownership!
I'd join them  
santacruzom : 8/21/2008 3:47 pm : link
but I'm already planning on protesting the weather here in San Francisco later this afternoon. My protest will probably yield better results.
Anyone know how the waiting list figures into this?  
NNJ Tom : 8/21/2008 3:51 pm : link
Do they start working down it if current people baulk?
Davisian : 8/21/2008 3:52 pm : link

This is the cost of doing business these days. Quite yer whining.
It will be  
Bubba : 8/21/2008 4:09 pm : link
to see if 18E and the gang will be tailgating again in 2010.
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