Asshat Alert - Latest on Edwards

?

Ware and Manningham for Edwards?

Man, even if its a one year rental that is still worth it IMO.

Pull the trigger...

the other day. I bet we still get him before the season starts

could make us a little thin at RB, but i would still do this. Maybe we can get a Vet RB cheap.

hope Reese can make it happen.Not sure what the price should be but I trust JR

Bradshaw and Jacobs our depth would be fine...

Plus we have Reese to find us another Practice Squad RB (Ward, Ware) and he's pretty good at that...

I like that offer.

And include Sinorice

Ware may be very good but with Jacobs, Bradshaw and Brown, he won't see the field

Superbowl here we come

but not for a one year rental, he'd have to sign an extension

I'd rather give up a pick for Ware. Jacobs style leads to him being hurt a couple games a year. Brown has been injured much of his cillege career,Bradshaw realy showed a -lot in 07 but can he do it again? Ware looks to fill Wards shoes better than any of the other ones right now. I for one would like the deal to get done without Ware involved somehow.

The Giants have Jacobs, Bradshaw, Brown, and Wright already on the roster if they move Ware. Also, doing the deal will open up a roster spot so they could always bring back Droughns or kick the tires of whomever Denver cuts next

But it goes back to the question of how much are we willing to pay BE?

I still think 10MM a year is too much. Sorry Edwards, we don't want what you've got for that price tag.

JR has been incredibly consistent in his ability to negotiate friendly contracts. And if its incentive laden, I'm ok with it.

But Ware, Manningham & a 3rd rd pick, plus a $8.5/yr contract... DEAL!

and put in a different part.

If they can sign him long term, I'm for it.

but i think braylon fits our offense nicely


why would the browns want another UM alum??

but Manningham still interests me.

what amounts to two 3rd round picks (Manningham and Conditional) PLUS Ware, whom we might be able to flip for a pick on his own. Pass.

and would rather replace that part of the deal. If Edwards still wants a huge contract is is going to be a problem with out a new contract then no thanks, I won't want him in any trade.

to trade just for the sake of something new is stupid. Manningham is still unknown and Ware is very promising....you guys want to trade for a known average receiver? Get real, you guys got BBI fever. Take a few aspirin and a few days off.

I CANT TAKE THIS ANYMORE!

going to Green Bay. Do the Giants' improve with that deal?

Ware and Manningham have relatively cheap contracts and both players have lots of upside.

Edwards, in no way, shape or form come cheap. And call me crazy, but I like having all of that solid depth at running back.

presumably promising young players plus draft pick(s) is worth making unless the Giants sign Edwards to an extended deal. And I'm not sold that he is worth the kind of money he has reportedly been demanding. Maybe there is a good reason the browns won't pay him.

certainly fit what our O has been. Don't trade Manningham.

Not willing to part with Manningham.

Micah Rucker and Tyree. Something about the mindset of BE worries me, but what do I know...

Braylon Edwards is an average WR?

nothing last year. This deal is a no brainer. Pull the trigger if we can sign him to an extension.

I want MM here in blue

I'm pretty happy going into the season with what we have.

is last year. Who cares what Manningham did as a rookie?

but I'd hate to see Manningham light it up as a Brown.

We're pretty deep as far as RB depth so Ware becomes expendable and Manningham is an unknown.

Definitely do this trade if an extension is worked out

Still not an Edwards fan... now, if this was for Boldin, I'd stuff them both in a van and send it to the airport.

to be a fly on the wall when TC and Reese are discussing Manningham.

if he wants to take 7.5 then maybe.

fuck 9-10 per though

thing than Mario Manningham

oh yes it would!

If it is fair for Sinorice Moss to get skewered for his rookie year why should Manningham be exempt?

the issue has been and will be with the CAP space. My issue has been where does Tyree and his 1.9 million contract fit in. If we release him, how much counts against the cap. We all know we will only carry 6 receivers. Smith, Manningham, Nicks, Hixon, Barden, Moss, and Tyree. We cannot put any of them on the practice squad. Carrying 7 receivers throughout the season is not likely to happen.

So does anybody know the cap hit for Tyree?

Who said it was fair?

and not landing Braylon, I'll pack his bags for him. a 3, Ware, and Manningham? Yes please.

that he will take a reasonable contract, and that he will be good citizen and locker room teammate.

I could definetly live with that along with Jacobs Bradshaw,Brown and then most likely another vet RB. Oh yeah.Nothing wrong with that.

Tom: Jerry, what the fuck do we do with this stoner?
Jerry: No idea, guy's got skill, but what a fucking idjit. Do we really want another flaming Demps though?
Tom: No more fucking fairies
Jerry: Alright, we keep the dopehead! Cheaper anyway and we don't have to worry about buttpirates sniffin around the showers

BBB, because you know nothing about the sport or anything else.

Go Golden Knights?

I wish we could give up Moss; I think I rather have Manninghan over Hixon in the long run; also we wouldnt really need Hixon if we had Edwards; We would just need to replace the return skills of Hixon

Ware is a Free Agent after this year. Manningham is an unknown. If JR can sign Edwards to a Giants friendly contract, I'd pull the trigger.

We dropped the Golden about 5 years ago, or about the last time you were under 3 bills.

would want to keep manningham but it isn't a dealbreaker for me.

Stand pat.

when our top DEs don't even make that much

I can see Mangini making that deal. He took the Jets package of marginal vets and later picks for the early draft choice.

From the Giants side I don't think it's a good deal. We're not gonna pay Edwards 10M and shouldn't. I don't want to see Reese give up three players with upside for a one year rental.

Lets keep the young guys and let 'em develop.

I don't believe in the power of Braylon Edwards.

with all the other toys we've got at WR. The 3 is a no brainer. I'd be hesitant on Ware.

If you can sign him to an extension. The team would then be ridiculously talented and young at key positions on both sides of the ball. There could theoretically be something like a decade's chance to do serious damage. You never know in football, with injuries and contract holdouts, but that'd make the Giants an awfully talented and young team.

Agree...I like BE, but not at 10 mil per, although we could artificially inflate the contract to where he's not REALLY getting 10 per but it still looks pretty.

combined, then this is a no brainer. The higher Edwards extension cost rises from that figure the less of a deal this becomes. I have faith that the front office will make the right decision: making the deal if the contract is right, walking away if it isn't.

is going to be Giants friendly. I feel like it's getting rid of bad Plax and his scary contract, and then picking up bad Plax's younger brother and giving him a scarier contract.

I don't see any "good Plax" in this. I think everyone is enamored by the one good game he had last year, against us, when Ross couldn't stop falling down.

Not giving up Ware or MM.

it's a tough call if you ask me. Certainly not for a one year rental. Manningham has me intrigued, and it is very likely the Giants will need Wares services this season. If it were one or the other, I'd have to say give up Manningham, asking for both is possibly too much to ask.

JR will not overpay. JR will not pull the trigger to overpay BE.

?

but WTF does artificially inflate mean? no offense

backload?

it still counts

if he wants to accept 7.5 fine, but otherwise, he and the browns can go screw. And Braylon may actually enjoy that. NTTAWWT

just drafted two WR's, why wouldn't they ask for more than Manningham? Why not Hixon or Smith, now that the Giants just spent a first rounder on Nicks and might be more willing to let them go?

It doesn't make any sense to me. They can get better value than Ware, Manningham, and our 3rd from the Jets or some other team. Unless the Browns are just stupid.

why did he let him slide to the 3rd round? If he was that hot for Manningham I think he would have grabbed him before round 3.

maybe he's not stupid enough to shoot himself in the leg, but I really don't see the difference.

backload into money that he'll never see...so when he signs a 5 yr/50 million dollar contract, it's not really a 5 yr 50 million dollar contract.

but I'm not totally buyin' yet

still counts on the cap

Go Terps doesn't see this.

I really hope you were being sarcastic, cause BE playing for less than 1 million will never happen.

more reason I don't buy it

only the bonus and salaries for years he plays count on the cap...if we give him a $15 mill base in year 5, it doesn't count until year 5.

without renegotiating.

which brings me to my next point

what are we trading for a 26 year old for if we only want 4 years from him?

if he's saying it.

What I was trying to say was that on talent alone, trading MM and Ware for Edwards makes sense. But once you start factoring in money, it becomes less of a deal, and if the contract demands get high enough, it's better to keep MM and Ware at their combined price tag.

the only dead money would be 1/5th of his signing bonus against our cap in year 5...more likely we'll give him a contract with a high total value, and then renegotiate in 3-4 yrs.

We havent seen what the guy can do yet - Ware I am fine with sending to Clvd... But I would really prefer to keep Mario.

BE wants mega bucks...hmmm

is nothing but a potentially good player right now. So was Tim Carter. So was Sinorice Moss.

we are going to be in great position with the cap, Eli will get the extension around camp, money for next year will be plentiful, let our guys develop cheap (I really expect Nicks to learn quick), fill next years needs with prime talent

and so is Nicks.

We will never know until he gets on the field, which he won't if Edwards comes here.

...I want Mario on this team.

"Manningham showed absolutely nothing"

I hope that that was a joke.

too many hypotheticals BBB

I don't want to get into this debate, it's not worth it, our guys are gonna be fine

doesn't want to play for the Browns and probably has no intent on showing up for there voluntary stuff. This causes a big embarrasemnt for the new coach Mangini.

guys we already have.

I see you've joined the dark side ; )

I'm excited about Nicks, Barden, and Beckum getting on the field.

it depends on what Reese and BE's agent can conclude. Not for 10 mil per, and not a 1 year rental. What's the "condition" of the 3rd rounder? Up to 2nd round if BE produces the goods, or down to 4th if he doesn't?

Eric, can you get more details?

I hear this all the time on BBI, blind faith in guys who have NEVER done it in the NFL...we're ready to win now everywhere else boys. 1400 yards and 16 TD capable 26 yr old WR's don't exactly grow on trees.

So I would assume that means a 3rd or 4th depending on some milestone. Was 80 catches the rumor before the draft?

Manningham= 3rd round pick

+ a third round pick. Three thirds?

Thats more than a 2 and a 5. If Edwards is willing to sign for a reasonable contract.. I do it. If not.. I don't. I find it hard to believe this has anything to do with compensation and everything to do with Braylon's contract.

trading Manningham would be a big mistake. I'm fine with the other elements of the deal. But I think we would regret trading Manningham, really regret it.

not getting into it again, circles and circles

nut up and watch our guys grow, especially smith in his third year

better pro than Braylon, I would say you are completely nuts.

I'm intrigued by MM's potential, but he is at least a year away from being a factor. Plus he is 6' 185 lbs while BE is 6'3" 215 lbs and just as fast. With a manageable contract, I'll take BE. Ware is going to be a solid back, but we can find another. In fact, I loved Dwayne Wright coming out of college. He may be more than a serviceable back-up.

If you're gonna sit here and tell me Manningham is and will be a
Anakim : 8:52 pm
better pro than Braylon, I would say you are completely nuts.


you make shit up


who the fuck said that?

we drafted him for a reason last year, his potential is off the charts, he never had a chance to see the ball last year. Trade him before even getting to see him have a full camp? To pay Demps II 10 mil per?

yep

My position is based on production in the NFL, yours is based on blind faith. Smith will be good for us...as a #2-3 type.

especially when you consider that 2nd and 5th netted Sintim and Bomar. Although I'm sure Sintim will be come a good player, I'd rather trade those two for Edwards than Ware Manningham and 3rd rounder.

surrounded by two pretty mediocre seasons for a #1 WR that wants a shitload of money

only if we can get a deal done with Edwards.

It depends on how they rate Manningham's potential. That's the larger issue for me. You don't want to risk trading away a future stud for what could be a one year rental.

If they're not real high on Manningham for whatever reason the deal could make sense even if they let him hit the market next year. It will give the young guys a year to develop.

ware

Anyone pinning that debacle on Braylon is out of their mind. Get him in an offense with other players and our run game? Look out...

What does that even mean?

and yet MM slid to the end of the 3rd round. Something isn't adding up.

is better than BE. But MM could be a very good pro player, the guy needs his shot. Trading him before he steps on the field just doesn't make sense to me.

You give me a choice. I trade Hixon over MM in that deal 10x over. We can find someone else for ST. I like Hixon a lot too but I think it would be a big mistake to trade Manningham, this quickly.

since playing, will not continue to improve and produce, especially when given a more prominent role? yes, totally blind


btw, smith was being doubled last season at the end, played flanker, still got open


doomed?

I'm high on Mario and Ware, but it's a no brainer.

modeling career > football

we are no longer desperate. either steal braylon away for next to nothing (ware and a 3rd, no manningham), or say no deal. we have all the cards now.

Deal breaker to people?
This is a steal for the Giants, its actually too good to be true after our draft. I'm not believing it.

its a worse trade than the original asking price of a 2nd and 5th.

1400 yd 16 TD season and his history of being a #1 since stepping on an NFL field...I'll have to review the archives.

based on what? How many touches have they had?

Like them a LOT more as a 2 and 3 than I do as a 1 and 2.

for a guy with one very good (it was a VERY good year) to pay him more than our all-pro DEs make? fuck that

if it was Mario and Ware BEFORE the draft and only a 3, why we didnt pull the trigger sooner.

DO IT ALREADY!!!

Ware is or 3rd string RB and Mario may be no higher than our 4th best WR.

Edwards becomes our #1 WR the moment he puts on the NYG uniform.

DO IT JERRY!!!

you continue to twist arguments to fit your narrow view

carry on

Braylon...

on this board severely over-rate Ware...

I can see the argument of wanting to keep Manningham a bit more sensible...

I still think this is a pretty good deal on the table, granted it will take time and snaps away from Nicks, Barden, and Beckum.

they also drafted a number of WRs too, they don't need one with no experience in return. i would rather give Moss and ANOTHER player plus Ware than give up Manningham.

Your whole argument is that we have guys on the roster who are capable...and you are basing this off of nothing that has been seen on an NFL field.

with a ton of unproven talent...DO IT!!!!

is 'nothing'

yes, smith and hixon have done exactly 'nothing'


peace out

sounds like he really wants to be in NYC for the off field opportunities (model, media etc.), maybe he takes less in the contract. That is the deal breaker, because the talent swap and draft pick look good for what his presence would do for our offense. Ware and Manningham have potential but are unproven, Edwards is the real deal. Ware is a ERFA with a one year deal and we drafted a lot of potential in Brown. What about the Jets? IMO.

Differences: Braylon was the third overall pick
Braylon has been to the Pro Bowl, Braylon is a bonafide #1 WR.



0:27 Will Demps and after that you see Danny Clark - ( New Window )

give them a 3rd, Ware, and either moss or a 5th...

I would hate to lose ware. I think he is going to be a nice rb, but someone pointed out that hes a FA after this year??? Plus since drafting Brown, hes expandable.... Mario, I think most of us have high hopes for. Hes in his 2nd year with us, hes cheap... Keep him...

They didnt want to trade with us before the draft.... Because they thought they would get more??? Now teams have drafted and positioned themselves for the start of training camp. I'm sure not as many teams, if any, are interested in trading for BE now. So I would say we hold the cards... Give them a 3rd, Ware, and Moss... We still have to sign him to a deal... Hes not coming cheap... We shouldnt have to surrender Mario...

defensive attention? They've shown they can be a solid #2 and 3...nothing more as of yet.

...Hixon and Moss than Manningham.

Edwards would probably break even with Burress in production. How is Edwards' blocking?

Edwards - 16 games
Catches 55
Yards 873
Avg Yards per 15.9
Touchdowns 3

Burress 10 games
Catches 52 - projected to 16 games
Yards 724 - projected to 16 games
Avg Yards per 13.0
Touchdowns 4

Actually with Toomer gone someone needs to replace his production. Toomer did have 4 TDs. Would Edwards need to increase his overall production?

Catches 48
Yards 580
Avg 12.1
TDs 4 Toomer - 16 games

that may scratch what Braylon has already shown. The dude was dominant and most likley will be again in the proper environment. He is a former #3 OVERALL pick, you dont get picked 3rd at WR unless you have a TON of talent.

. I think this deal would come back to bite us in the ass. Move on.

Have you spoken to Braylon?

highly overrates many players. I like Smith and Hixon but neither are or will be #1's. And I'm probably the biggest MM fan on here but I will drive him to the airport if need be to get this deal done

And mm the#1 we. No trade

I think I rather have Millen over Anak; that might be a stretch; but this thread has taken me from Anak defender to Anak ingnorer.

I'm not comparing MM to Braylon; But he could be everything that Moss could have been. If we could toss then Hixon; I like the corps of Edwards, Smith, Manningham; with Nicks and Barden earning a spot as soon as they are ready. That would be great depth.

Edwards is not proven either. He has proven to be inconsistent. I do like the idea of having a veteren presence. Incosistence scares me cause I'm a Knicks fan and I remember John Starks.

Do you realize how useless it is to compare Burress' stats in our offense to Edward's stats in Cleveland's awful offense?

Done to receive such high praise? And Were do people see potential in Ware? He had one ok rush last year

1400 yards, 16 TD...he's more proven than our entire WR corps combined. People want to point to last yr on a horrendous Cleveland offense...

these guys havent even proven ANYTHING yet and are still very green. One is a third stringer (maybe a 4th with Brown on board) and the other will be lucky to be any higher than a 4th stringer this year.

if they bring in Edwards and his contract demands?

The compensation is not an issue. A couple of players that are not even proven starters.....and mid-round daft pick...is nothing.

Granted, Is B.Edwards a top 10 WR....outside of his break out year and being a top 5 draft pick....I don't know for sure..I don't see any Browns gams..I am assuming he is that talented.

The only hurdle is his contract.

I'm with you

and this team will have no glaring holes in ANY unit.

Hixon can focus on KR/PR duties and play only in specific offensive packages (strenthening our STs as well)

I don't understand this adoration for two unprovens.

why is it the only year of three he has #1 stats is when the QB plays very well?

c'mon, he's not Mike Furrey, at his size and skill level, he is not 100% dependant on QB play.

make that catch on 3rd and 11 in the SB? Not in my opinion. I would not trade Manningham either. Hixon and a 3rd would be my offer.

6th folks.

With Andre brown , Ware is arguably our 4th back. With The WRs and TE weve picked up Mario isnt any higher than a 4th stringer at receiver.

This is a no brainer if true.

People find Manningham more valuable than Hixon?
What has Manningham done to be valued this highly? What can he do that Smith, Nicks or Barden can't?

The sheep are following a couple of the heavy hitters who said they wouldn't part with Manningham.

..."Manningham if lucky becomes a WR
JerseyJoe : 9:02 pm
that may scratch what Braylon has already shown. The dude was dominant and most likley will be again in the proper environment."

My stats were objective and meant to give posters the opportunity to compare the two. Of course Edwards is 25 and I am sure the Giants are looking to sign him for 4 years. Money will play a big part.

The expectations would be high because if the other WRs don't produce for Toomer's stats that means Edwards would have to produce much greater numbers. Can he?

10 pts in the 4th with a 2007 edwards on the team instead of a gimpy Buress?

That's not a compelling argument. Sinorice was never going to be a #1 WR. He was drafted to be a slot receiver, nothing more. His biggest attribute was his speed. Manningham's best attribute is his hands.


Actually, Manningham is very similar to Nicks...except Manningham had off the field issues

what makes you so sure to toss Money at a player with one explosive year

06= 884yds= 6tds
07= 1289yds= 16td
08= 873yds= 3TDs

not proven

'With Andre brown , Ware is arguably our 4th back'

So Ware hasn't proven anything and thus is expendable, but the guy who literally has never set foot on an NFL practice field, is suddenly higher on the depth chart?

Joe has reached a new low

sheer lunacy

...with a healthy 1987 Anthony Munoz?

those numbers for the 1st 3 years for a WR are incredible. Many HOF WRs didnt have those kind of numbers there first 3 years.

I read maybe two posts on this thread before posting I don't want to give up Ware or MM. We just let Ward walk. RB is a strength and I don't see any reason to deplete it. Also, the back we drafted has had foot problems. Say one of BJac, Bradshaw, or the rookie go down and we trade Ware we have two RBs.

If we are going to trade a WR let it be Moss. If MM is everything many on this site have said he could be I want to see the next chapter. Plus, I hate Mangini and the Browns. Let him draft his own players rather than cherry pick ours.

Giants need to stick to rumors we heard in the past: Trade picks not players.

Before the draft, the majority of us were a bit too emotionally invested in getting either Edwards or Boldin. After that didn't go down, we felt a little betrayed, and overreacted by investing ourselves emotionally in the guys we drafted and the guys already on the team. Now the majority thinks that a much less expensive deal for Edwards would be a rip-off.

he was a 2005 draft pick

like there is a lot of conflicting information in these asshat reports. Weren't the earlier asshat reports putting it more on BE's contract demands than the actual trade compensation to cleveland? Ah, screw it. This horse has been beaten into semi-liquid form. I'm just going to stop thinking about this and assume we are going into the season with what we have.

a 3rd from 08, a waiver wire pickup, and a 3rd in 10 for Braylon Edwards.

Two players that have not proved they can play in the NFL and a future pick for Braylon Edwards

I think Smith is ready to be our #2; Edwards would be our number one, so I was thinking as Hixon as more expendable.

i.e., if Ross could actually have covered Welker in the 4th quarter.

But the Browns wouldn't want any of the 3 for obvious reasons

Thank you.

If the contract isn't crippling, show me where to sign.

Manningham got hurt last year and couldn't learn the playbook enough for the coaches to feel good about putting him in the game. Now the browns want an unproven player who's not the fastest learner. WHAT? Are you serious. I have great faith in Manningham given time and consistancy, but wow, just wow. Hixon would be a better option if they wanted anyone. I don't like the idea at all. Keep ware, keep manningham, keep the picks and press on. We don't need edwards.

How many different QB's did they start?

...not if the coaching staff thinks that MM or DW is a potential starter. At that point, their draft position is no longer valid.

I think that's good compensation for the Browns and a fair deal for the Giants who have to resign Braylon for big time dollars.

I see a coaching staff and FO who have continually shown an ability to replace players, star players even, with guys through the draft and have had success.

I see a solid youth group who will be competing like hell for PT in camp, raising each others' level of play every day.

I see a good cap situation that could be very advantageous for next year.

And I see a team that needs to re-sign it's franchise QB, maybe a younger DT in Cofield

I see a majority of posters who think this is Madden

And I NEVER have made the Madden comparison to posters until now. Never.

I would not hate this trade; I would be comfortable making it; I just dont think giving up Manningham should be needed.

if you knew football youd know RB is one of the more instant impact positions. Brown in college, has shown good blocking and rec skills to boot. In any event even if he werent ready to be the 3rd stringer (which is why I said ARGUABLY) we have not 1 but TWO guys higher on the depth chart in Jacobs and Bradshaw anyways.

is that Steve Smith is probably a decent to good flanker. He'd be a better flanker if we had a decent to good split end opposite him. Is that SE Hixon? Nicks? Manningham? Moss? Barden?

Edwards is probably much more of a sure thing, especially in 2009. Though if the only way to get Edwards to in NY is to sign him to an extension that potentailly costs the Giants a chance to extend Kiwanuka, Smith or other key players over the next few years, then maybe the shot gun approach using young gusy with potential is the way to go.

trading ware. He hasn't done a thing in the NFL, therefore he is expendable. Brown has never even stepped on a practice field, yet he is arguably higher than ware on the depth chart already.

seriously, fucktarded of the highest proportion

try again kid

did any of you who (based on some evidence, granted) downgraded MM actually watch him play for UM? He has phenomenal hands, and made more game-winning catches than BE did. I'm not disputing BE's talent. And I do value Hixon's abilities. I just like MM's upside better than Hixon's.

.

We need to sign Eli to a contract extension as it is.

We have big money wrapped in a lot of players

but, BE is a #1 WR with superstar potential. should be able to rise above it. guess not, guess he needs someone throwing lights out to put numbers up. Eli better be 100% on top of his game, then, I wouldn't want BE sulking and dogging it again, especially for $8-10M a season.

it's not that he's not skilled, it's that the guy is a whining dog. and if you feel we've gotten rid of that problem, why do you go back down that road again, for even more money?

I understand most WR's are headcases, but I would rather have a headcase WR that is putting out an honest effort... at least most of the time.

if he never drops that fucking bomb, none of this is ever discussed.


pick back up the gamesticks boys, let jerry run the show

but all along said I wouldn't include players. I like Ware though I'm not too concerned there but I wouldn't trade any of the current WR's(that anyone would want).

I also am pretty confident the Giants haven't had much interest in trading for Edwards since very early March although if the price keeps coming down maybe they will re-think it.

Hixon
Smith
Nicks
Barden
Tyree
Moss
Manningham

Dont forget Beckum will be a receiving option in certain packages as well

thats 7 WRs and a receving H back.

Braylon automatically is the #1 on that list the moment he puts on a uniform.

BUT THE BROWNS WANT A QUALITY WR INSTEAD OF A PLAYER LIKE SINORICE OR TYREE.


Gosh, to get a great player, you have to give up something.

As long as we can afford Braylon, I think it's a good deal. I like the players and want to keep the potential 3rd we're losing but I like Braylon more.

To me, it's an easy decision. Do it.

b/c I really think he is going to be an outstanding back, but I think I would have to make that deal

Braylon Edwards is a very talented NFL WR and is only 26. The deal has to seriously be considered.

so that is all we can go on. but if that is your argument to keep Hixon, everyone else and not make the deal, then fine. I'm okay with that.

My take is if Manningham is part of the deal for Edwards, I pass.

I agree if the price comes down further we may consider it.

As is, I think Jerry is laughing ass off reading this thread

I agree with you. If Manningham is the deal breaker I rather have Edwards; Especially for this year, he definately makes are corp stronger with experience. I just think we could do it without giving up manningham, he COULD be a nice receiver in the slot; I know he is totally unproven but he could be a huge help.

...agreed. If Jerry pulls the trigger, I root like hell for Braylon and never look back.

I hope that if he does tho, that MM is not involved.

Ware should some flash in exhibition games - a la Sean Bennett and people fall in love with him
Manningham showed NOTHING in a season where he had golden opportunity to step up

I do this deal in a heart beat

happiness are the issues, why not take a flyer on a veteran like Harrison to allow the young guys time to develop? If the deal does not get done, it speaks to Reese's confidence in whom the Giants already have outweighing Edwards' assets.

...showed nothing.


Seriously?


wow~

Are you serious?

Braylon truthfully speaking is easily worth ANY of our WRs. Further, Manningham has shown less on the NFL level than Hixon and smith.

Manningham may not be truly NFL ready to contribute for another year, if ever.

after the deal had been dead for a over a month.

neither will be starting this season. Both WILL play, but this is a no brainer in my opinion.

that seems like a steep price - I trust JR will hold out.

but he is by no means a dealbreaker. Get it done, Jerry.

He's a legitimate #1 and a potential superstar, he makes the Giants better instantly.

...is a deal that must be considered, but I simply don't want to part with MM.

I normally don't care about the $$ as it's not my job and I don't think that anyone here can determine what a guy is worth, but do you pay BE more than Osi, Tuck, any of our OLine?

I like BE, but I don't want his contract to be one of those things that come between players.

I also think that MM is a legit NFL WR.

Finally, SS is a #1.

pure and obvious truth is not allowed on this thread!!!

With bad hands, who wants $10 million a year despite having only one good season as a pro (by #1 receiver standards). P-A-S-S

I truly hope these Braylon rumors die out for good before long.

not wanting to part with Ware or Manningham and/or not wanting to take on a monstrous contract, but the dissing of Edwards is just absurd. I cannot believe he was called "average." Even ignoring his insane 2007 year, he absolutely shredded the Giants D in week 6. You saw what he can do first hand ... against a Super Bowl caliber defense (granted Ross played atrociously that game).

Tuck, Osi, Canty, Robbins, Webster, etc... etc...

for one good year

We are going to learn alot about what Reese thinks of his current crop of recievers.

If I were a betting man I would guess that Reese says no and goes to camp with what we got... but...

who knows?

He wouldn't have been drafted if he had bad hands. All receivers drop passes. Especially when your quarterback is average at best.

but pay him more than our top DEs, DT, and the same as our Elite CB?


rnargi email

mind boggling really.

your pop gun IQ and crass plebian behavior fits like a glove there.

judgement on this one. I think they've earned it. If they want to add Braylon to the other B's we picked up, I'll assume they made the right decision.

Personally, I guess I fall on the side of going with what we got, although I must admit that if they think they can fit him into our cap long-term having combinations of Braylon, Smith, Nicks, Barden, Moss, Tyree, Boss and Beckum to guard in the red/green zone with Jacobs or Bradshaw in the backfield should be enough to cause defensive coordinators to go absolutely nuts.

keep tryin, kid

how of many of you said that we were fine with what we had after the Plaxico incident?

Eric, can we have more details or at least an update?

you're doing a great job on your own

not superstars like Jeff Blake, Josh McCown, Shawn King, John Navarre and Matt Leinart.

Moss, Tyree, and the assorted bric-a-brac aren't worth anything in trade. No value there.

We're not trading either of our rookies before we've even seen them in camp. That kind of move just pisses of your scouts.

Smith is the only starter we have with anything close to a track record. Too valuable to part with.

Hixon has diminished trade value because of his expiring contract, particularly to a team looking at longer-term rebuilding like CLE has. His ST contributions also don't add to his value to the Browns, who already have the best returner in the league in Josh Cribbs. He's worth more to the win-now Giants, so we wouldn't get good value if we were to trade him.

That leaves Mario. No track record to suggest that he would help on '09, but enough potential based on his college years to entice a team with the long term in mind. And he's under contract through 2011. He's the only WR we've got whose value might be higher to a team like the Browns than it is to the Giants.

I can't remember?

No need to specify... The truth is, if Braylon comes here he'll want a contract that will make him the highest paid player on the team. Period. He wants to be a $10 million a year player. Take a look at the Giants '09 salaries. Nobody hits $10 million.

And I can say, without hesitation, that Eli Manning, Brandon Jacobs, the entire O-Line, the entire D-Line, and Corey Webster are all better at their jobs than Braylon Edwards is at his job.


But yea, fuck it, fuck building a team. Let's turn this into Madden, give Braylon the moon and rake in Super Bowl trophies. It's just that easy. He's always proven to be productive, focused, a team player and a winner.

They can have a conditional pick.. Ware and Moss... We gotta resign this guy to a bug contract. Manningham has a lot of upside.. I say no..

bois, Eli's over 10 but that's it. And that's how it should stay

for 10 mil/per? C'mon... No chance.

Cleveland has played their hand by drafting and signing receivers all over the play.. lowball them.. give a conditional pick and thats IT.. no players..

and he also has Michigan ties up there.

our offense would be great with Braylon

after one year, with loads of potential?

or ware who he snatched off a PS and saw something?

exactly

and I'd bet my savings Jerry feels the same

on here seem to think they know all the details.I trust JR. He know BE better than anyone on here and knows his own players better than anyone on here.And knows BE's worth. I trust he will not overpay.

yea let's not pay Edwards for one good year.
But let's make Canty our highest paid DLineman for no good years.
I would rather give Edwards money than Canty

'But let's make Canty our highest paid DLineman for no good years.'



BAHAHAAHAhAHAHAHAHHAHAHHAHAAHAHHAHAH

Somebody will give him more money than the Giants will, more money than the Giants should, more money than he deserves.

Again, I fail to understand the #1 receiver argument. Our team struggled last year without Plax, but Braylon isn't Plax. We'll be fine without some overpaid wideout.

what leverage does Cleveland have? They keep him this year and he disappears after it in free agency and they get nothing in return.

...you don't have any savings~

well..let's see how this plays out

The reason to value Manningham over Hixon is because Manningham has three years left on his deal and Hixon has only one year left. If Edwards were signed to a longterm deal there is no way that Hixon would be back in 2010.

I'd prefer it if it were Hixon and Ware; but I agree with those who say you can't say no to Manningham, Ware, and a conditional 3rd round pick if Edwards can be signed to a reasonable longterm deal.

I can understand them wanting a WR that has potential in return for a guy that has proven himself.

But as LTS said earlier, fuck paying him $10mil. If thats part of it I don't want him.

house money bitches

I'm riachhhh biatchhhhhhh

let em stew for a while..

However I will admit BE at #1 and Nicks #2 with some Smith and Hixon thrown is is very very very sexy....

...idiot?



Sorry, I was jus' following the script~

but if drafting Nicks, Barden, and Beckum isn't proof that Reese is concerned about the receiving game, I don't know what is.

This is all speculation, but the person who mentioned Ryan Grant made a good point - and in that situation the Giants got almost nothing in return. Yeah, it'd suck to lose Ware or Manningham but you're getting a proven player in return.

it would look awesome that line up.

I agree, i'd like it, but there's a limit to price

a pick.. Ware and Moss and Tyree.. take it or leave it...

...throw in some MM instead of Hixon and I like it too.

They would sooner offer Sinorice Moss + Danny Ware + a 5th. As a matter of fact I am almost positive that is what their counter will be, and probably remain. Else we go into the season with a plethora of hot shot young guns shooting to make the big time baby!

drafting of those guys isn't proof of anything really other than we needed to replace two WRs we lost, imho. We lost two starters, anyone who thought we wouldn't draft 2 WRs if BE wasn't had has some dank weed that I want.

Again, and I know it will go ignored, Reese did not pursue BE at all to the extent BBI believes

yearly.

Hixon is too valuable to the Giants on Specials and Maningham to me has a lot of upside.. screw Cleveland.. it aint my hob to make them better.. and I aint gonna bid against myself...

are firing their mamager melvin

wrong thread

...a good deal. If Cleveland simply can't work with BE, it's also fair.

My worry is this, the Jets or even Eagles may be willing to offer more and MM may be all Mangini really wants aside from the pick making our hard line leverage worthless without MM.

I feel like I'm arguing with Dan Snyder


I still can't get over this fucking line.

'But let's make Canty our highest paid DLineman for no good years.'


Is there any more proof of football asininity?

How legitimate is this source? Has he given you inside info in the past and been accurate? Just give us some more info as to the credibility of this information! Thanks.

.

...some here would be going off like this if E. got the info from his little sister.

is right and the talks are still on, does this mean that Reese et al. don't think we are "fine" at WR? LOL.

But you can upset the salary structure of the team if you keep paying new guys more than the guys who helped you win a Super Bowl. Look at what's happening over in Eagle-land (not far from Leggo-Land).

If they can get him for the same price they were willing to pay Plaxico, I think the locker room will accept that. But if he gets too close to $10M/year, it could piss a few people offer and get others to start asking for a pay-increase.

No, it just means that they are always in the market to improve the team.

if you'll notice, the post says nothing about a giant response. It appears cleveland reached out IF it's true.

Reese has no reason to bite now if they're already lowering the price. Fun game of poker and manginakok is getting restless

we look at everybody and we look at everything...

and in this particular offseason, I actually hate him for saying that.

oh well.


anyone up for a game of madden? Just picked up BE!!!!!!! KEWLZ

guys, joking. That's why the "LOL" was in there.

until that is reasonable, it'll most likely, imo, pass.

.

...BTW, thanks, I'll consider things.

It would be awesome if this happened.

I love ya kid!

50 yard line, you up for it? It's the boyz-giants game, I'll get ya some crackerjacks and a coke

...let it go man, you're coming off like a jerx.

We have disagreements, that doesn't make "the other guy" ignorant or any of the other nice things that you've labeled people here..

you got the perfect Cowboy fan persona!!! Good luck and good riddance

over enthusiastic stupidity

can you figure out the cowboy thing?

cause I still don't get it?

special joke?

I love this moran

You can't just give us the first post and not follow-up

would be the most appropriate retort.

No prob, bro. Let me know down the line if you want me to find anything out.

...so I could get away from know-it-all-know-nothing clowns.

We don't KNOW what the staff thinks of MM and to be quite honest, none of our opinions means jack. I don't understand calling someone ignorant simply because they like what Reese has put together.

It's flukking assenine.

Na seriousy.
You think Canty is more deserving of getting paid strictly off potential?
Than Edwards, cause that's basically what both their contracts will be for.
Please explain

what follow up? take a deep breath.

WTF is "Cowboy fan persona" and why is Joe always posting that ticket sign?

mustve just finished up

nice work by you Eric lol.

What makes you think Eric has more information? Clearly, the Asshat wants to remain anonymous, so he passed the info through Eric instead of posting it him/herself. And the Asshat specifically said that he/she doesn't know what the Giants' next move is.

What more can Eric say?

Quote:

Again, I fail to understand the #1 receiver argument. Our team struggled last year without Plax, but Braylon isn't Plax. We'll be fine without some overpaid wideout.

You may be right - and I certainly hope you are. Sometimes the not completely proven player works out (Diehl taking over at LT, for instance). Personally, with a position as crucial as WR, I favor the 'go the proven route' approach, but I get the trepidation from many about paying too much (I'm with you there) or giving up players who have major potential.

Is this more about Edwards, though, than about giving up Manningham or Ware? I mean (and this is hypothetical and impossible) if the same deal were offered for Fitzgerald, you pull the trigger instantly right?

after you explain to me how Canty is being paid on potential, sure I'll answer you.

Have you watched Canty in Dallas? here's a recap, he consistently owns our LG, occasionally our center, and always was a beast against the run.

Oh yea, all those batted balls Eli throws against the cowboys?

Yep, Canty

Thickones? TANKED

We'll take Edwards off you hands (plus you #2, next year) for Sinorice Moss .

About "worrying about on field production," then switch gears and make a bunch of excuses for Edwards?

And completely discount salary cap ramifications?

your claim that we somehow paid Canty on potential is in my top 3


I can't fathom how it is you've come to this conclusion other than you missed every Cowboy-Giant game since Canty became a starter, in addition to the rest of the Dallas games

I'm off to the bar to snag some snatch.

Deal with Canty boy for me?

And jerseyjoeykid

kthxbi

I'm watching the hockey game. WTF are you doing?

of Danny Ware is interesting in this discussion. I know the Browns guy told me that they like Moreno in this past draft and want to get a new RB in place because Lewis is on borrowed time. My guy has crashed for the night, but I'll ask in the AM if he's heard anything at all.

way too much smoke for this not to get done.

For the love of god, what is this cowboy thing you keep posting to LTS? I've "looked into it" and I still don't get the joke.

i would go to war with what we have...

To give up Ware and Manningham. But hey, if it happens it happens. I trust the staff to make the right moves.

and 4th string WR for a #1 WR too.....oh wait....

Ware is completely expendable though i would rather move Hixon based on the idea that both have 1 year left. Talent wise we are crowded at WR as it is, not so much production wise, and Edwards would fill that void and give the veteran presence. And Feagles would prob get even MORE compensation haha.

And both JerseyJoe and LTS are complete tools I don't know which is worse but both don't understand football. At least Joe comes up with his own dumb ideas on his own though and doesn't just puppet the lexicon of BBI into every post.

lol you have no logic.
So you get mad at people for wanting to pay a WR, who had 16 TD's and made an impact in our type of offense.

But you don't get upset when we pay a 3-4 DE, who hasn't done anything as 4-3 DT or DE, and make him the highest paying lineman on a team who won a superbowl with two all pros. And then you use a example of how Canty owned our LG's? Lulzzzz
Ok, I'll use an example how Edwards made Ross his toy on national TV. What is your point. Your argument can go both ways.
Canty hasn't done squat in a 4-3 defense to deserve that contract. The Cowboys probably signed the same calibre or in some people's eye better player to replace him, for a much cheaper contract.

I think the deciding factor for the Giants remains whether or not they want to pay Edwards 9-10 million a year. I'm sure they could have worked out a fair trade weeks ago if the money wasn't an issue.

exactly how fans of teams overrate their own players.

IMO, the only way this trade doesn't get done is if Edwards wants too much money, not because we will not give up Ware and Manningham.

We don't know what we have in Manningham yet, he may be a stud. And anyway being bummed about losing someone is perfectly fine if you root for them as a player. I think Ware looks to be an interesting player and I've been looking forward to seeing him. And I'm also looking for Manningham to step up. Doesn't mean I can't be bummed to lose them and still be happy to pick up Edwards.

And Roadwarrior, I think it's pretty clear the staff is excited about Canty. That was a very strong FA pickup whether you want to argue it or not. Canty adds a TON to this DL rotation.

cause I find it hard to believe...

I also find it hard to believe some of what im reading....

so lemme get this straight theres about 30 people who have posted on this thread that pretty much are against this. OK...

Factor this in:

-The Giants dont have the best history in drafting WR's and as much blame EA got for his Dixon's, Alfords, Daryl Jones and Tim Carters...it was still based off the same scouts that we have today. So IMO Manningham is a huge huge HUGE question mark.

-Also every year in the draft the Giants always draft a guy in the mid rounds who is a potential superstar. Bottom line tho Manningham most likely will have a better role this year but he wont be an impact. Braylon Edwards is an IMPACT

-Ware seems like a great back but we have only seen him play maybe 10 snaps. We have no clue for sure how he would hold up at 15-20 snaps a game. AN HOLD ON A SEC!!! Is there even a chance he would get 5 a game now, prob not. I mean last time we came across a situation like the Reese got pretty nice value for Grant who is now pretty much a 3rd

-Bottom line, sometimes you have to take risks. You wanna keep up w/ the Patriots in their dynasty team...then your gonna have to make a risk just like how they did when then signed Randy Moss.

btw, in addition to my first reason, I love Nicks and Barden and dont think either were a bad pick.

Remember when we schooled New Orleans to pay a 2nd and a 5th to take Shockey off our hands after the draft? If they get a 3rd here, for a guy in his walk year - they're repeating the feat.

If he wants $10m guaranteed, Edwards wants too much money for what he's done in his career. I wouldn't take him as a FA. I definitely wouldn't send a 3rd rounder to get him at that price, and barring a hostage situation there's no way I'd send him players and a 3rd round pick for the right to overpay him.

the typos.

I want to do this but I really think Mario Manningham has something

I thought I was the only person who saw that - the Browns are not in the position to make a deal.

force a deal.

what this is to the Giants. Moss cost a 4th rounder, and was still under a reasonable contract. They didn't extend him until after he was acquired.

Oh yeah - and he was Randy Freakin' Moss. Not Braylon Edwards.

.

From the outside, this looks like a pretty good deal. Mario hasn't shown anything (and may have trouble with the playbook). Ware has some potential, but not enough to start yet. But it depends on what the coaches see.

Maybe Mario didn't get on the field for the same reason that we finished the season the way we did; they didn't change the WR patterns for the players that we have.

So in essence it depends on what cards we're holding.

Another thought: will Cleveland potentially want less for BE? If so, then we wait a little longer. It's like poker, the Giants want to make the move at just the right time.

Brown shows he is capable of blitz pick up there is a chance that neither he or Mario are guaranteed to be active every week. Mario does nothing on special teams.

No brainer. Same if you include Moss or Hixon instead. A receiver has to go to add Edwards. Ware is the big loss

It would be nice if Cleveland wants Ware and Mario instead of a 2 and a 5 that they could have had. a 3 and PS signing good value

1. When given the chance after the draft, Jerry Reese refused to say that a deal for Edwards was off the table.

2. Mangini coached Danny Ware, so he knows what he can do. (One does wonder why Mangini stashed Ware on the practice squad when the Jets didn't have much of a running game.)

3. Mangini wanted Manningham for the Jets, but didn't have the power to draft players as the head coach.

This makes sense.

X JoeyBigBlue


Ware has potential, Manningham is still a few years away.

.

you don't do Ware, Manningham, a pick and a big contract for a player they don't want anymore and who doesn't want them anymore. Cleveland can't expect that for a player they can't keep and you'll have to bonus. I also agree with those who think this doesn't happen unless Edwards will accept a deal that works with our long term cap plan.

that available to us to use, our depth is pretty solid.

We are talking about a 3rd string Rb, a Wr who will prob be the 4th guy and a 3rd rounder next year. An dont forget we just drafted a guy who has the potential to be just as effective.

Moss at the time was a huge risk to the Patriots and their ways of success. He was coming off 2 abmismal seasons w/ the Raiders and was viewed as a clubhouse cancer.

An the Patriots had to know that upon signing he will end up costing them money at some point.

Jesus the ability for a multiple Championships is here for the taking. I think if this is true we have to make a risk here.

with the new CBA on the horizon, no?

a risk

btw I only want this tho if Edwards signs a longterm deal.

has been superior drafting and excellent cap management. And by making a move like this, you're going against both trends.

Moss was no risk to the Pats - they got him for a 4th rounder, didn't have to pay him much - and if he wasn't productive or was a clubhouse distraction, they could cut him with no dead cap hit.

If Edwards gets $10m a year and doesn't pan out - we've caused considerable damage to the team.

If we were giving up Ware and Manningham for Edwards, and he had a couple of years left on his contract (and didn't demand an extension), then this would be a comparable situation, and I'd be all for it. That's not the case.

His price probably drops when he realizes he's going to a contender and we're in bad economic times.

with what we have at this point. With the two WR draft picks we just made in the draft I think the position is stuffed with enough talented guys that SOMEONE should be a player...and maybe two. And this is coming from someone who wanted Edwards on the team before the draft. But after the 2nd round ended I moved on and am more than willingly to see how the talent already on the roster pans out.

Pass.

But I wouldn't be mad if Jerry made this deal.

The kid is pissed off, apparently didn't always give 100% there in Cleveland, had one decent season and wants to get paid. Great!

Maybe we didn't learn our lesson this past season.

He's already demonstrated he can play. Unless you believe he was a complete fluke.

The Pats protected themselves against an old player with a history of locker room issues and who was seemingly well past his prime.

Edwards is 27 and has put up numbers without a good supporting cast.

and few suitors interested in his services.

Doesn't anyone wonder why we're talking about this after the draft? Don't other teams in the league, some with lesser offenses than ours, need a #1 WR? Why isn't there more competition for this guy?

the rest were not the type of stats you could command $10m a year guaranteed for.

Don't get me wrong - for a reasonable contract, I'd definitely take a shot at Edwards. Reasonable. He hasn't earned the salary of a top-5 or top-10 #1 WR in the league, whether it was a result of being on the Browns or not.

you're kidding, right?

delusional WR suddenly finds common sense and lowballs self because of bad economic times?

that's got as much chance of happening as Rodney Hampton going on a diet, going to speed school and running a 4.09 40.

16 TD in one season is "decent?" Really?

If that's decent, then Steve Smith and Domenik Hixon must really, really suck, using that logic.

Hakeem Nicks, Steve Smith, Ramses Barden, Domenik Hixon?

I'll take it.

the contract is what is scaring teams off at this point, I believe. There were plenty of teams who asked in February, as I was told. The Giants, Jets, Vikings, 49ers, Seahawks, and Eagles all called about Edwards. Edwards has told people he wants the Giants. I think Jerry is going to wait it out and make one more try for him. As I said earlier in the week, I'm interested to see what happens when the Browns manditory mini camps begin since Edwards has not been around the team and the new staff yet. He might have his own Shockey-esque moment and force their hand. The Browns signing of Furrey the other day was curious in the timing after drafting 2 WRs high.

I could give a shit about Manningham and Ware. Trade them now for all I care. My issue is with the money Braylon reportedly wants, and the fact that he isn't worth it period.

it was only one season.

and his other seasons have been solid. He's 26 years old, just entering his prime. Edwards, Smith, Hixon, Nicks? Yes please.

Man you make a good argument. The funny thing is im usually always pretty rational on this board and emplore us being smart and conservative.

Edwards does go against the grain, and it would be a detrimental to the team if he decided to lose focus again. I dont know ...

Reese as always will check all his bases and know what would be the wisest decision. I guess Ill just leave it at "whatever Jerry Reese does, I will cont. to support"

We would have a starting WR lineup of Edwards, Hixon or Nicks, and Smith. Or all 4 at once. All are 26 years old or younger. That would be a wet dream.

The kid is clearly a headcase. Players that start demanding out of their current situations are usually not what you want and we found out this past season what happens when you pay a major headcase too much too fast, not to mention, the kid drops an insane amount of passes.

Pass!

let me ask you this, judge that contract based on the work that Abrams and Reese have done the past few years. They have yet to give a bad contract, in my estimation. They have locked up core guys at a good price, but not a crippling one. Rocky might be misguided in his baseball postings ;) but his information about the Giants doing their diligence and checking in with the NFL about contracts and 80 catches should tell you that the Giants are working on a bonus structure in a deal for him where he will get paid very well if he performs, and won't if he doesn't. Look at the Diehl contract, he's paid like a LT while he's there, if he moves, his money changes. Look at Jacobs deal. The bottom line, if the Giants trade for him, I'm not concerned about the contract because I have every reason to have full faith in the job Abrams and Reese are doing. Why would they suddenly get stupid with Braylon Edwards?

I'd be a little hesitant to part with Manningham, but I don't think he'll have as good a career as Edwards will. Ware is replaceable and the 3rd rounder isn't a huge deal.

and what's held us at bay. If we could sign Edwards to a Plax-like contract, then giving up Manningham, Ware and a 3rd is excessive but doable. Worst case, both Ware and Manningham excel (and only MM would make us look bad, since we're stacked at RB) and we're out a 3rd for a guy who drops everything in sight.

um, hate to break it to you, but I'm not a Michigan fan at all. But to say Edwards has had only one decent season in his career is laughable. You're lost.

and where did the story about him wanting Fitz money come from? Edwards? His agent?

Braylon Edwards averaged 65 receptions for 1,015 yards and 8 TDs. But, yeah, let's not give up Mario Manningham for him, or Danny Ware, who looked real good in a preseason game.

Gimme a break.

You're probably right. They won't give him a bad deal. But maybe that's the holdup. The Giants might have the mindset of wanting to get a deal done before agreeing to a trade. I have total faith in Reese and co. And I don't sense any panic or desperation from the interviews I've read seen or heard. My guess is the deal doesn't get done for a combination of those reasons: the Giants won't pay the contract, and the Giants don't believe a receiver is as big a need as many fans do.

On the off chance that they do give him a monster deal, I'll be upset.

we're stacked at WR too. Even if we trade MM, there's four young talented WRers behind Edwards.

Plaxico was a FA also. That worked out pretty well for us. This is exactly the same situation as Plaxico 4 years ago. Braylon is very similar to what Plax was when he was a FA. Young, about to enter his prime, and some could even argue that Braylon has done more in the league to this point than Plaxico had at that time.

Same build, Same skills. He is EXACTLY what the Giants need as I've said. If its gonna cost Ware, Mario and a 3...SIGN ME UP! I like the potential of those two, but if that's all it takes to get a #1 WR who has already been to the Pro Bowl and is only 26, you do it. What's the matter with you people?

but I can't believe how so many here, for that matter how anyone here, can think that giving up either one of these two players for BE is a "deal breaker." Just doesn't make sense.

Now would I rather give up Moss than Manningham? Yes of course. And I definitely don't do it if a reasonable contract extension for BE isn't done b4hand.

How on earth does someone equate Ware to a 3rd round draft pick? The Giants just drafted Brown in the 4th, who appears to be comparable to Ware with perhaps a better dossier as a receiver.

and something I've written about on this board for years, is to pay attention and look for planted stories about players when an organization is trying to shape public opinion against that player, for a variety of reasons. I've noted the past few years when and where the Giants have done it with Shockey, Plaxico and to an extent Toomer as well.

Well, up to the draft, things were generally quiet in Cleveland about Edwards, even after he told the city to screw off in December. Well, the draft comes and goes. In the past few weeks, let's look what has happened: They work out Drew Bennett and sign Mike Furrey.

And we've seen 3 less than flattering stories come out about Edwards. The gay rumor, the information from our old buddy Will Demps that Edwards is asking him about modeling and acting jobs during the game, and that Edwards was talking about free agency in the huddle.

Stop and think about this for a second. Why is this being published now. None of those things are new, all could have been brought up months ago, why now?

How about the Cleveland fan base who were expecting a first rounder and/or Kiwanuka for Edwards. At the least they want a second rounder. If there is any truth to this package for Edwards, all things considered, it's a far way off from a 1st rounder or even a 2nd rounder. How to you sell this to the fan base. Call him a prima donna who doesn't fit with blue collar Cleveland. Let him go to NY and hang out in the Village and get his acting jobs, good riddance. PR is all about managing expectations.

Nowhere near what Edwards is rumored to be asking for. That's the major sticking point here.

I think this kid could blow up the lockeroom and it takes only one cancer do to that and destroy the team. I'm not saying he's TO, but the signs are there. He wants big bucks after 1 great season and several average seasons, bitching andmoaning to get out of Cleveland and rumors of being lazy.

We talk about building for now and for the future, but you could destroy this team by the seams if we pay him and if he's mentally not into it.

Nobody wants Moss. If they did, he would've been traded last year. He has zero trade value.

Re Ware, Manningham, and "potential." Potential is all fine and dandy, but production is what counts. Edwards has produced in the past and there's no reason to think that he won't in the future.

I dunno if the leaders in our locker room would allow that to happen. Something like the Plax situation being totally out of their control is different than some young (although talented) new guy trying to take over. The whole "wants to be a model," Will Demps-esque vibe is what worries me. He may prove to not even be worth the money he's demanding due to outside aspirations. It's a crapshoot, imo. I trust our FO guys, though.

Towards the end I thought it would be difficult to get a deal done because Be's agent was working day/night for the #1 pick.

Now- hell yeah, if an acceptable contact can be reached. First Edwards is the real deal, he was a highlight reel two years ago- last year he regressed but his team sucked and he isn't happy.

Ware?? Are you kidding me? I like him too but running backs are a dime a dozen and third stringers maybe a nickle for a bakers dozen. The Giants have proven their ability to find RB's.

Mario?? Well it would be nice to see what this kid's got but especially since the draft the Giants have no shortage of "potential" at WR, what they do have a shortage of is proven #1 receivers. Edwards would instantly provide a problem for defenses that doesn't exist today.

6'3" Edwards, 6'2" Hixon, 6'6" Barden, 6'3" Beckum all on the field at the same time? Or mix in a Smith, Nicks and Boss? I think Mario become expendable.

I'll trust Reese to do what's right in terms of money and players. Either way I'll be excited with the team the Giants field come September.

I gotta chime in...

First off... Before the draft, I was a big Edwards-trade fan...

I'm on the fence about it now... The compensation isn't the issue with me... Not at all... The contract bothers me, but I have no reason to believe that Reese and Abrams will 'forget to eat their Wheaties', so to say...

They've negotiate many cap friendly, protective deals in the past and believe that if Edwards CONTINUES to play hardball, then it won't get done... They're not gonna screw up a good thing for one player...

My only question to those against the trade and claiming he drops 'everything' is while he led the league last year in drops... And 2nd in 07'... He had 16 last year... While that is a lot, and the most in the NFL... And if he's being paid millions, he should catch them all... I understand that...

But 1 a game... 1 for every 8, 9 or 10 targets... That's EVERYTHING? A RB with 'potential', a WR with 'the tools' but not the brain, as of yet and a 3rd round pick... For a number 1 WR, who would require double coverage and open the field for our running game, smith, nicks, beckam and boss? Again, if the contract is reasonable... That's why I'm on the fence about it... Contract and contract alone...

if the trade happens, then obviously Reese & Co don't think as highly of Manningham and Ware as you do.

ones to help us win a championship in 2007 and then likely cost us one last year by paying Plax and letting Plax kill us, although that was beyond JR's control. There are just certain guys I think you stay away from if the price or potential penalty is too high.

read my post above this. Edwards has had these same aspirations for years, even during his 2007 explosion. That's info being used to help soften the blow to usher him out of Cleveland. Whether he goes to the Giants, I don't know, but their moves to sign Patten and Furrey, feature Cribbs at WR more and draft 2 WRs high have laid the ground work to get rid of Edwards.

Guess what, Antonio Pierce was working as an intern on Howard Stern and said he wants to get a post playing career lined up. Danny Clark has said the same thing which is a reason he signed with the Giants. Tiki was doing overnights at WFAN during his playing days to get into the broadcast field. Stuart Bradley is working for my friend at Elle.com right now learning the fashion industry and blogging for them. This is normal for these guys and the Browns are using it against him to turn public opinion.

...to that already and I think that most who would like MM to stay agree with that sentiment. If Coughlin, Sullivan and Reese want to trade MM for BE...I gotta go with their judgement. What we've seen or not seen out of MM is irrelevant. What they've seen is.

I just tire of the name calling that comes with disagreements that simply are nothing more than speculation and wishful thinking.

on BE now. But still it's not at all sure he's headed our way.

Hey Klaatu - I AGREE!

I agree, that's why I said I think he'll get traded, whether it's the Giants or not remains to be seen. But both sides have done a lot of legwork on it already, despite everyone saying it's just gossip, as I think Coughlin called it on draft day.

shocked if the Cowboys got involved in this one. Jerrah loves these types of stories.

"headline."

Braylon Edwards guy?

however; I would do that trade. The Giants drafted two receivers that (in my opinion) are more intriguing than Mario Manningham. I don't see Manningham getting any playing time on this team. That also goes for Danny Ware. Might as well trade them for Edwards.

only give up a 4th round pick for Randy Moss then there is no way i give up what some lame-brained GMs have been giving up for WRs. I laugh at their overzealousness. Stand firm and the price will come down. In the end, you never overpay for players who are going to command big contracts in a league with a salary cap.

Edwards for a conditional pick next year and Sinorice Moss. Deal.

.

"bloody toilet paper" when considering trade scenarios.

1) The reported Edwards contract: It was rumored if you were to believe the pre-draft asshat info that Edwards wanted 4 years, $40 million with $16 million signing bonus.

What we think we know: Edwards wants only a 4 year contract, which would allow him to be a Free Agent when he's 30 and allow him to sign one more BIG contract in his career.

What we think we know: Browns in a cost saving mode, traded back in the 1st round three times to pick up crap the Jets gave up and only two 6th round picks. We can also guess in a simular cost saving move, they want to trade Edwards instead of meeting his contract demands.

What we think we know: From Matt's Cleveland source, several teams contacted the Browns about Edwards but majority of them have backed of because of his contract demands.

What we think we know: Giants are bidding against themselves. Cleveland knows this, Edwards knows this and most importantly Jerry Reese knows this. No other teams (so far) have seemed to be winning to not only give up the resources to meet Cleveland's demands but to also be willing to come close to Edwards demands or else the trade talks wouldn't have gotten this far.

What we think we know: Edwards is in a simular contract situation as Plaxico Burress was in 2005. Giants were also the only bidders on Burress and Plaxico kept on trying to get the Giants to bid higher for his services. When EA pulled the offer, Burress realised that was his best offer and finally accepted.

Edwards in a simular situation, must be realising that financially, the Giants are one of the few teams in the league capable of giving him his payday and willing to. In the end, when push comes to shove, Edwards might accept a reasonable contract to join the Giants, just like Burress did in 2005.......when he realises that his only other option is to stay with the Browns.


2) Now comes this rumored deal involving Manningham, Ware and conditional 3rd straight up for Edwards. Now lets break this down a little further.

What we think we know: Super Mario was one of the best playmakers in college. Showed enough ability to be a 1st round talent that fell to the 3rd round in the 2008 draft.

In the NFL, it's been rumored that Manningham had a hard time picking up the offense. Although that is usually normal with WRs as it usually takes them up until their 3rd or 4th year in the NFL before they supposedily "Get It".

What we think we know: Although Manningham has great potential, which might or might not develope for a few years. We do know as a fact that Edwards already show cased that potential and was a dominating force at WR in 2007.

As much as people talk about all his drops and only showing up for one season.......well at least he already walked the walk in the NFL and showcased his ability once. While on the other hand we have to wait for Manningham to develope in a few years, that is if he ever does.

What we think we know: Danny Ware, as with Manningham, flashed potential in preseason. Giants coaches have raved about both Ware's and Manningham's potential. But on the other hand, there's already been rumored those inside the Giants locker room are upset with Ware's lack of dedication to be around more often this off season.

Plus while Ware has ALOT of potential, so does Brown. On top of that, Ware also has two RBs ahead of him on the depth chart who have actually performed on the NFL level and carried our running game on our run to the Superbowl in the 2008 post season.

What we think we know: There is a rumored conditional 3rd round pick involved. A very key aspect I haven't seen too many people mention is the fact that it's a conditional pick and not our 2010 3rd round pick outright.

Meaning we only give up our 2010 3rd round pick IF Edwards performs to the standards that Jerry Reese agrees to in this trade. If he does perform to his 2007 level, Edwards is easily more valueable then this entire pack and well worth our 3rd round pick.

The great thing about conditional picks, as they're performance based and we'll give up a high 3rd or 4th round pick if Edwards performs. If he doesn't, the pick we give up would be much lower and most likely in the 5th-7th rounds if he performs to his 2008 level in performance or gets injury prone.

Bottom Line: Jerry Reese is in the drivers seat and with drafting Nicks, Barden, Beckum and Brown as offense weapons, he's under no pressure to make this deal.

It's the Browns (for not wanting to extend Edwards and getting value for him now) and Edwards (for agreeing to a reasonable contract to the only real suitor in a trade scenerio or else be stuck playing in Cleveland) that are under REAL pressure here. Reese and the Giants are in the drivers seats and control all the cards if everything falls properly to their liking and on their terms.

Kokainis & Company are smarter than the previous regime.

The know what Danny ware can do (and they think they can steal Manningham), I was being sarcastic about Sinorice, they want no part of him.

This team still lacks a WR who will force teams to roll the safety into double coverage consistently. Without that our offense is really stifled by 8-9 in the box. BE would require such coverage, regardless of drops...the guy had 16 TDs two years ago, and teams can't ignore that kind of talent.

Losing Ware would leave us thin at RB, but I suspect that Reese could fill that spot with a functional back if he felt it necessary.

MM is all potential at this point, and if he's a deal breaker, he'd better start at WR for us this year and be the guy that forces doubles. I don't think the Giants quite see that happening (at least this year) given how hard the Giants seem to have been working for an Edwards trade. And they're in a better position to evaluate that than any of us).

So, again, I think it comes down to $ and personality. If BE and his agent become reasonable in their demands, and he's seen as a lockerroom fit, this deal is a no-brainer. WE are one BE-type from being the odds-on favorite for the SB next year. Without that type of player we're one of the teams that are contenders but will have to overcome a weakness to get there.

Willing to play fo 3 or 4 million max, these terms are a bit more realistic. He won't be, though.

Stupid trade, and most of BBI STILL doesn't understand why, going by many of these posts.

I agree - the terms as is are doing the Browns a momentuous favor.

I've yet to see anyone provide it here.

if we dont have to pay him 9-10 mil a year. 7 mil a year is fine by me

Are you kidding me?? So our 3rd or 4th RB is a deal breaker for a #1 WR??? I swear the ignorance on this board sometimes is f*ckin amazing.

is that Manningham replaced Braylon's star at UM, too, not so long ago.

Lol I agree, I thought it was a joke when I read that... Danny Ware a deal breaker... Cmon thats insane

that's as ridiculous as him asking for $10 million. The guy has already proved that he has the ability to be a Top 10 WR in the league. Yeah, he had an off year, but there are way less talented guys that get paid more than 3-4 million a year in this league.

not Danny.

More does not fit in the Giants' salary structure. And BE won't get more than that from Reese.

is nice to stay, but it's no where near the market value and no way will Braylon sign for that. I'd be absolutely shocked. TJ Housh was a free agent, but he is 5 years older and got 8 million. The lowest I could see Braylon signing for is like 7.5

the past 3 years. Putting BE in his class is ridiculous.

BE is a measure of his "market value?"

But I think he'll be a hell of a number two. Get this done.

no. There are very trades in the NFL, anyways, and very few teams want to give up anything and have to sign a guy to a big extension.

If he were to hit free agency, he'd get 9 million a year

That might have something to do with it.

Carson Palmer and Chad Johnson have to be a part of the equation.

he's also 5 years older. So no, it's not ridiculous to put Housh in his class. And the Giants showed what they thought of Housh by not even making an attempt to get him. You would be paying for what he did in the past, not what he's going to do in the future. With Braylon, you would have him for his prime years

Braylon in a terrible year had 1 less td and only 40 or so less yards than Housh, on many fewer receptions.

Serviceable running backs in the NFL are a dime a dozen. Jacobs is our #1 guy. Behind him, we have Bradshaw (who, for whatever reason, everyone has soured on), Ware, and the rookie Andre Brown. What exactly makes Ware, a guy who's done nothing in this league (Career: 2 carries, 15 yards), untouchable? I'll pack Ware's bags for him tomorrow if need be.

Manningham has upside, but again, he's not exactly a dealbreaker. Not with Smith, Hixon, Nicks, Barden, Boss, Beckum, Moss and Tyree all able to catch passes. And of course Edwards coming in.

Don't get me wrong, Ware and Manningham are nice young players to have on the roster as it currently stands..and unless this trade goes through (unlikely), I hope both will produce for the Giants. But being reasonable, of course the Giants should trade either one for Edwards. Both? Fine. Both AND a draft pick? No thanks. Either one and a draft pick? Ehhh..preferably Ware, but sure, either one and a mid round draft pick. A 4-6 type pick.

-----

I don't think losing those guys matters much. Acquiring Edwards for either one, or hell, even both (no draft picks though), is reasonable. The only issue then is the contract. A huge issue, but the only issue. Fucking spare me on the love for Danny Ware and Mario Manningham though. You can find Danny Ware type players all over the place any year. Draft a guy late, sign an undrafted player, whatever.

is a lot of hand wringing over an unconfirmed rumor from an anonymous source.

Those bashing BE are extremists. He's a good #1 NFL receiver. He's not an elite player but he is pretty good. He'd draw a lot of attention and benefit from our very effective running game. He has flaws. He drops too many passes. He alienated the fan base in Cleveland which is hard to do as they are very loyal to that team. He's had only one really fine campaign in 4 go rounds. His contract demands as reported seem inflated when you look at his career to date imo.

As far as the rumored deal goes...IMO a 3rd round pick plus Ware and Manningham is a bit too rich for Edwards. One has only to look at Ryan Grant to see the upside of a player like Ware, he could be a #1 RB or a very valuable cog in a 2 back tandem ala Derrick Ward. The Giants have proven very adept at scouting talent at the RB position. Manningham was widely recognized as a 1st round talent at WR who needed time to develop the mental aspects of his game and was considered a bit of an off field risk. Well it's a year later and he's stayed clean off the field. One would hope and expect a season with the team has brought him improved maturity and an understanding of the pro game so that he can begin to contribute on the field this season. His upside is very high and a lot of the issues that swirled around him coming out of Michigan have been answered to a certain degree.

What would I trade for Braylon Edwards? Nothing if he insists on a contract averaging 10 mill per season, he's not worth that. If he's willing to work with our FO and arrives at a fair deal for both parties, something similar to what Plax signed is the proper ballpark. I'd give up the 3rd rounder and EITHER Ware or Manningham but not both. That's fair value for a player of his abilty and track record that ALSO will require a contract extension to keep in NY.

that this was turned down before the draft. I can see how the drafting of Nicks and Brown could influince things, and if this is true, perhaps something would go down after the this weekend's mini camp if they like what the see in the new WRs and RB.

I'm inclined to believe there is something to this since Reese refuses to say we've moved on, and this deal reminds me a bit of the one the Browns made with the Jets on draft day.

As for if I want it, Manningham and Ware are both intriguing players to me, but I've also been unsure what their roles were going to be, and there is also the big question of Edward's contract demands. This would look like a slam dunk deal for most non-Giants fans, but could also prove to be a very big haul for them in a couple of years.

rumored contract demands...this deal gets done. It's a no brainer. You get your proven #1 receiver and you lose a 3rd/4th string back and a boom or bust player who is rumored to have a hard time with the playbook.

What happens to the Plax cap money? Shows you what bargainer I am, I would have gone 1st and third.

Edwards would have as much to say as the teams. He wants $10 mil per, I'm not sure the Giants are willing to pay it. He will be a FA next year. If thinks he can get the $10 mil my guess is he will refuse to sign and wait until free agency. So IMO the trade won't happen unless the Giants think he is worth the asking price or unless Edwards lowers his demands. I don't think he is worth the $10 mil, but what does Jerry think?

that the teams had worked out a deal but that the Giants and Edwards couldn't agree on a new contract. This should spice up the remaining offseason

a quartet of Edwards, Nicks, Smith and Hixon would be pretty nice and would complement each other well. It would allow Smith to remain as the slot guy and Hixon to continue as a special teams ace. And Edwards and Nicks as starters gives you good size a deep threat along with an underneath threat.

and Mario and Ware would be a great deal for us--especially now that we picked up Brown.

pass please.

Quote:

Danny Ware's a deal breaker??? Toastt34 : 2:06 am Are you kidding me?? So our 3rd or 4th RB is a deal breaker for a #1 WR??? I swear the ignorance on this board sometimes is f*ckin amazing.

Especially those that don't realize that Ware is going to be filling the Ward role as our number 2 back, most likely.

have Ward's pass receiving ability?

The way the Giants use their backs, it is entirely possibly that Vradford gets more carries and Brown/Ware see a slightly reduced role. It's also possible that Brown, although less experienced, has more ability especially considering a non-featured role (that either would play). I was thinking that this would be an interesting battle decided in training camp with no clear-cut favorite

it will indicate the organization tipping their hat of confidence in drafted RB Brown, and looking at Ware as a replaceable cog.

Essentially, from where I sit, it's Manningham and a conditional pick, for Edwards & Edwards' money...

I'm not so sure that having Braylon and a big money deal tied up with him is the right way to go, especially if it's a burden on the CAP (in regards to re-signing current players), but if Edwards settles for close to Plax money, I think we'll see this deal completed .

I do, however, believe Manningham will be a good player in this league, and I kind of would rather the Giants stand pat and run the old Patriots approach to offense -- not force feeding it to any one guy. And having them all clawing to step up. Competition is a great thing.

Bradshaw in some parallel universe?

Bradshaw in some parallel universe?

with the "get Edwards at any cost" crowd is they've worked themselves up into such a frenzy over this in the past couple of months, this notion that we HAVE to have him, that they don't question any terms...

A first and a third? Sure. Mario Manningham, Danny Ware, and a 3rd? F-ck it, do it.

That's 3 players basically for one, and we're pretty stocked right now.

Secondly, a lot of people would have traded away Osi to get Manning back in 2004, because they didn't really know who he was about to become. I was one of them. I learned my lesson.

I am

I've been reading articles on Manny all morning and had Rob Bradford (a Boston=area sportswriter) on the brain. And then I mis-typed the (wrong) name to boot.

Mea culpa and get me some coffee

but Manningham would be a deal-breaker for me. I don't get why we obtain raw kids and say (as we do for nearly all WRs anyway) not to have immediate expectations because they need a few years of development time but then they will be really good. But then, before those few years are up, we bash, dismiss, want to be rid of them because they haven't shown us anything, you don't know what you have, unproven, yadda, yadda, yadda. Well duh. Manningham's potential at the time of the draft was really good. As good as Edwards? Who knows. But potential was there. Cost is ther. Youth and longevity, relative to Edwards is favorable.

Go somewhere else for your trade piece. Of course the rub is, we are already going to have to cut a WR; with Edwards we will have a really tough decision to make

I see people saying things about his value, and what you would or WOULD NOT pay for Braylon....Well, thank the lord that all you are paying is $8/Beer and $90/Ticket...

Leave it to Reese. Leave it to Coughlin.
You as the fans are clueless at talent evaluation. They make a SERIOUS living at it. Look what they have done recently...
It has never been this exciting to be a Giants fan, save for 1986.

Edwards is the real deal. It's nice to have "potential" breakout players such as Ware and Mario, but how long do you wait?? We just drafted guys to replace them immediately, and with Nicks and Barden - behind Braylon???? Shoot - Do the deal.

One more point - where did the locker room cancer talk start re: Edwards??? He is reported to be a great presence....he was just aggravated with his team, ownership and contract situation. Remember - they are just cocky kids who only have their peers to compare to. If BE doesn't feel he is a top 5 guy...frankly, I don't want him.

Pray we get this done. It would instantly bolster our SB hopes. It's the only knock on the 2009 Giants - the lack of a #1.

even they had a veteran quality WR in Troy Brown and a young but emergent David Patten.

Manningham can be a good receiver, I hope one day he can be as good as Edwards is now at 26. So we are trading a player who has potential for a young player who already has done it. On Ware, we are stocked now at RB. In my mind Bradshaw, Ware, and hopefully Brown can all be used interchangeably. So why not trade one of them, they all can't play. In fact out of the three, Bradshaw is the likely Ward replacement, Brown the flashy rookie, so Ware is the preferred trade option.

If we can sign BE for a reasonable price, which I am sure Reese will do or cancel the deal, this could be a great move. Edwards, Hixon, Nicks, Smith is a borderline great 4 WR set.

in mind about Manningham, and I'm a supporter for Mario and think that he can turn into something special (but I'm not coach who has seen him day in day out for a year). When the Giants drafted Manningham they had no idea that Hixon would develop as he did. The general sense was Hixon was a return guy who was on the bubble. Hixon worked his ass off and earned time in the rotation, and after injuries and Plaxico's stupidity, he ended up being the top guy by the end of the season. With the draft netting 2 WRs, both much bigger phyisically than Manningham, and the development of Hixon, that might well make Mario expendible in the Giants' eyes to acquire Edwards.

Also, GiantTuff is correct, I don't think the Giants believed they had a shot at Brown where they were picking. And maybe the coaches are comfortable handing Ward's duties to Bradshaw after he was more or less in the doghouse after his early fumbles last year.

But for the Browns to be backing that package, things must have gone real sour with Edwards since the draft and he's got to go.

Point 1, Reese is too smart to make a deal for Edwards, whatever he gives up, that would hurt the salary structure of the team. He hasn't done it with anybody and there's no reason to start now.

I can't believe that people are writing that Ware or Manningham are deal breakers. We've seen Ware look good in exhibition games carrying the ball against back-ups. We have no idea if Ware can catch the ball and equally important, block and protect Eli. That skill normally takes a year or 2 and my theory about why Bradshaw didn't see that much time last year is the concern about his blocking. And, with regard to Ware, I would expect that until the coaches see him block in game conditions, they won't know either.

For Manningham, if we get Edwards, we don't need Mannningham with the holdovers and the draft picks. And, with the questions about his route running and his smarts, I can understand that you don't want to give him up but how in hell is this a dealbreaker?

Manningham is - however...

Putting the contract aside for a second - the Browns have no leverage here. They're not that far off from camp, the draft is over and Edwards is in his walk year. He could conceivably sit out, which would make matters much worse.

This is a game of chicken at this point - except the Giants are driving a Mack truck and the Browns are in a Prius. We drafted well and although Edwards might be an excellent complement to what we've got, there's no dire need to get him right now.

All that considered - two players AND a third round draft pick? These guys are NFL players, not practice squad chum. If we had to give them up and no picks, fine. But a 3rd rounder no less, and two guys (one who was a 3rd rounder and one who we know can perform as a solid backup RB at a minimum)?

Too much. Not because it's not a good straight up trade (contract aside), but because the time for making that demand has passed, and the Browns leverage has fallen considerably since then.

exactly. We hold all the cards.

Another thing, I don't know why people are so up in arms over differing opinions.

Impulse buyers, methinks.

obviously the coaches would chart progress best, but pointing to an attribute during the time when you say, "he needs to learn, he is not what he will be," , etc doesn't make sense to me.

if he thinks Braylon is worth it, then I'm all for it.

However, half of you that are screaming for this trade now, would also have gladly traded away our 1 and 3 this year to do it.

Now, we have a better deal. In two months, on the eve of training camp, it will probably be even better.

At this point, we've addressed the issue through the draft. Is Braylon even a fit here anymore?

You contradict yourself. First you say...

Quote:

You as the fans are clueless at talent evaluation.

And then you declare...

Quote:

Edwards is the real deal.

Assuming you are a fan like the rest of us and not a scout with the Giants, aren't you as clueless as we are when it comes to talent evaluation?

p.s.-- If Edwards feels he is a top five player at his position, I have no problem with that. My problem would be if he feels he should be payed like one if he hasn't played like one. If you think you're top five, play like it.

my laptop shit its video card last night, and look what I miss.

the draft. But we got two pretty good WR's (three if you include Beckum) in the draft. Granted, they haven't played a down yet and the Giants have a pretty bad history of drafting wideouts...but I'm content to go into the season with what we have now.

As far as I'm concerned, the Giants history of drafting wideouts might be bad, but Jerry Reese is changing that. So far he is 1 for 1 and he found a diamond in the rough in Hixon. Too early to tell about Manningham but he is only coming off his rookie season so you can't very well write him off yet.

jcn's got this well under control.

develop our own players and move on. Sky is limit for both Ware and Manningham.

.

just one year ago by getting MM in the third round. otherwise the kid was a first rounder and produced just as high results at Michigan than Edwards did.

i just don't understand why we would want to unload a guy with only one year of development and hasn't even shown what he can do yet.

Plus, talking about package of value, I score MM as a first round draft pick, not a third (I don't care where he actually went), average to a second, so you are putting a 3rd, Ware and MM (a 2nd basically) for Edwards. And the Browns have no leverage.

The only thing that makes an argument here is we have so many WRs now and adding Edwards, there just isn't enough reps.

But, mark it down, Manningham is going to blow up in this league. And you guys seem to want him to do it in a Browns uniform.

Put this season on Eli's shoulders, he needs to be the leader of this team and go with the young kids.

than what was previously being talked about. The big question in my mind is the salary terms. Maybe the idea is that Ware + Manningham will do for getting Edwards this year and having the rights to sign him. The third kicks in if we do re-sign him.

If we trade for him and can't re-sign him, we get a comp pick back - probably a third which will help sweeten the loss of Mario and Danny.

.

Dear Lord. Manningham, Ware and a conditional 3rd for Edwards? That's an absolute no brainer. Edwards, Nicks, Smith, Hixon and Tyree/Moss and we're worried about an under weight WR who can barely speak English b/c of his potential? And then we're worreid about losing Ware? Likely to be the 3rd or 4th RB on this team? What?

The worst thing you can do in business is fall in love with potential. Always go for the sure thing.

Ware is going to be #2, not 3 or 4 like most of you are saying.

It's going to be Ware that takes most of Ward's role over, not Bradshaw.

but BE is a proven commodity at WR, and the hand-wringing over possibly trading away Ware and Manningham as part of the package is homerism and overrating our own players at its finest. This proposed deal is more palatable than those being tossed around before the draft.

If they can hammer out a contract with BE, make the trade.

solid post.

Are you serious? Bradshaw has already shown monstrous potential and is probably the only homerun back on the team.

Weve seen some absolutely breathtaking runs by this guy including in the playoffs.

He is a more than capable #2 .

Ware might turn out to be prety good but Edwards becomes our instant #1 WR the moment he puts on the NYG uniform

Wants to get paid and then god knows what. If Edwards has even somewhat of a bad attitude, why in the hell would you give him $6M per year. His attitude doesn't warrant it.

let me ask you a question, if Bradshaw is such a lock, where was he during the second half of last season?

but if Ware went, we still would probably do well with a Jacobs/Bradshaw steady rotation, followed by some Brown in relief. Don't forget, there are other vets out there available who could fill a role, if needed (a la Droughns ... not saying it would be him, though).

micko ... you left out Boss, Barden and Beckum, as well.

have the confidence in Bradshaw that you guys do, but I don't have anything solid to back that up.

disagree completely. the deal value is probably is fine for getting a #1 in return, except for the contract that is.

but I have Manningham on the non-trade list, why do we value Nicks and Barden more than this kid. they are all young kids who could turn into a star for us, we just don't know. that is way I look at it. why are we valuing Nicks more than MM, simply where he was picked in the draft? because if you are doing it based on potential on how they produced in college, it is pretty even.

With Jacobs and a healthy Ward, there was little need for a 2nd-year Bradshaw who was, allegedly, a fumble risk.

I think.

who says "we" value Nicks and Barden more than Manningham?

are you basing that on something?

Ware is our 3rd string RB and Mario may be no higher than our 4th best WR . NEITHER are proven NFL commidities (i.e shown sustained dominance let alone adequacy in the NFL regular season).

Edwards becomes our #1 WR the moment he puts on the NYG uniform not to mention solidifies the only unit
with a ton of unproven talent...DO IT!!!!
.

to trade MM for Edwards, why don't we send them Nicks? I don't think we should but I'm just throwing it out there so that we all take a second of pause before sending what could be a great talent instead of developing out guys.

from posters that may or may not know.

a contract extension, get er done!!

Jacobs, Bradshaw, Brown...plus I have full confidence in Reese's ability to dig up some more RB gems

none of us knows a very key piece to this puzzle: what's rattling around inside the noggins of some of these players? If Manningham is an outstanding receiver but cannot get on the field because he doesn't know what to do, how worthy is he of a roster spot? Yes, guys can learn. But some cannot. Or, in some cases, will not.

this is a RUMOR!

You guys worked yourselves up so much last time, what makes you think there's even anything really to this?

But I thought it was quite obvious that Bradshaw was not the same player in 2008 that he was in 2007..

For whatever reason. Confidence?.. injury?.. added weight?.. Dunno, but he looked a step slower and that was not due to less touches.

I want the opposing Safeties lining up off the LOS.

One of the big pluses for keeping Manningham and Ware over trading for BE, is the combined cap hold their 2 contracts have will not stop us from resigning our key free agents over the next 3 years. If Braylon gets the money he wants then I'm afraid we can kiss Kiwanuka and maybe Steve Smith goodbye.

I'd like to see Edwards here too, and the trade compensation seems favorable to the Giants if this rumor is accurate, but the 800 pound gorilla in the room is the extension for Edwards. I wonder if he'd come down on price if the deal was only 3 years. He would hit his next contract at 29, which would make him a very attractive FA target if he puts up 3 years worth of his 2007 numbers.

love our RB's and am a fan of Bradshaw too. Overall, im just thrilled with the amount of talent Reese and company have on this roster. Lets develop our guys and move on.

Personally, I dont think BE has the mental fortitude to play in NY. He is talented but his flashes of brilliance are not consistent and he wants the bank. NO to MM, NO to Ware.

You are entitled to your opinion, and I've said the big contract BE would likely be handed is a wild card in this trade scenario.

However, "I have Manningham on the non-trade list" puts your opinion on the silly pile, imo. Be honest, you've fallen in love with an unknown.

this is what the BROWNS want. That should tell you something right there. This is their offer.

I find it highly unlikely that Reese is just going to say, "sure, here you go." without a counter offer.

Quote:

Personally, I dont think BE has the mental fortitude to play in NY.

He doesn't seem to even handle it well in Cleveland of all places.

He's been crying all season that the fans hate him, that he's not wanted. He'll get ripped to shreds here after he drops a pass.

#1 receiver and I love what Reese has put in our stable, even if it isn't proven yet.

However, drop the pick to a 5th and have BE sign a reasonable contract and I'd be fine with it.

Bradshaw have a neck injury of some type last year that slowed him down, I thought I recall that going on. And he put the ball on the ground a few times early in the season as he was fighting for extra yards and Coughlin stopped giving him the ball. And around that time, Ward stepped up his production so Bradshaw pretty much sat.

he also put the ball on the ground and struggled with pass protection. Hopefully, he's put those issues behind him.

so that's all you need to know in regards to how they are probably looking at Danny Ware, considering they received "perceived value" for Grant (a 6th from GB), and in this case could net "perceived value" in Braylon Edwards.

But I'm sure the biggest conversation taking place right now is whether to trade the conditional, and most importantly, whether to part ways with Manningham.

If the Giants pull the trigger, they do it with the mindset that this football team has been upgraded. That will tell you how they stack Manningham against Edwards, because that is the biggest issue at odds... also whether there is a wide enough talent chasm between Bray and Mario to warrant Plaxico money for Edwards AND to give away that conditional.

I don't want to sound insensitive toward Danny Ware (if you're reading, Danny) but I don't think the Giants bat an eye for him in this discussion.

obviously with my posts that I like MM. call it what you want, I don't think MM should be anyone we would offer. and certainly not part of that package they want. I think letting him go could be one of those players that we see in a year and really regret it.

And I don't think I'm being silly, I'm open and admitting it. There are other players on the roster that we should offer before him.

And my point still stands. Offering MM is no sillier or smart for that matter than offering Nicks if you are going on talent. The only difference is their draft position which is sunk cost at this point.

disclaimer: the only thing I don't know is if the mental aspect of MM is an issue, that I have to trust the coaches on, I just don't have any data one way or the other.

I would give up a #3 next year and that is all-that contingent on Edwards taking 7 million a year for 4 years.
he is not an elite receiver as yet
and Cleveland quite frankly is stuck with him

given that I am a Michigan grad and my 4 year time there (and time since) covered both of there careers. Manningham is not even half the player Braylon is. Manningham was great in college at catching the deep ball. Despite a lack of pure top end speed, he just got open. Braylon, however, was dominant. Braylon was the guy who you would double team and he would still catch the ball. He played with Chad Henne when he was a freshmen and sophomore and not as accomplished, and it did not matter where the ball was thrown. Yes he drops some balls and has some concentration issues, but the caliber player is not even comparable.

I am personally very in favor of the deal. But just wanted to write to dispute what some said. Manningham does not have the talent of Braylon. Does not have the size. Maybe he develops the talent more. But they are not comparable or even close, nor were they in college.

..."why do we value Nicks and Barden more than this kid"(Manningham)

I agree, only a knucklehead would do that. Unless said knucklehead is named Sullivan, Reese or Coughlin.

I wondered why the talks seemed to die so quickly. It makes sense that the Browns wanted young players ready to go, instead of a lot of future draft picks. If they were just interested in picks, I think the deal would've happened a while ago.
I expect a "You've got to do better than that" from Reese. Maybe a 1st day pick, a 2nd day pick and a current player.

would you substittue the less-proven, lower ranked Barden for Mannignham and do the deal? Or better yet, would you substitute Nicks for Manningham and so the deal (basically making it this year's #1 plus next year's 3rd plus Ware)?

Why or why not?

good point, it all comes down to what Reese and Coughlin and Sullivan think. at the end of the day, i trust what they decide. i just don't like how many here are thinking MM is just a throw in, no brainer part of the potential deal.

Wolverine: Good to hear a comparison view from you as someone who has seen a lot of both of them.

...if they make the deal, and they'll be the one's doing so, I'm OK with it. I'm a Michigan fan too, while I've never been to Ann Arbor (one day....ONE DAY!!!)I watched both of their careers and I don't see the great difference that wolverine did. But than, he may have focused closer on their individual talents moreso than I. (I generally watched their careers with my 5-9 yr old son).

I'm not worried about the BS surrounding BE's modeling, geighness or premadonna (nyuk-nyuk)attitude cos' I don't buy that rumor BS, I do worry about his presence if he's paid more than our stud DEs and OLine.

they gave away the 5th pick to the jets
they let eagles move up for a 6th round pick
they are Idiots
Now Braylon has to go soon or they will watch him walk after this year
We should dictate terms --and I would not give much

I watched a bunch of Manningham every time their games were televised and all I know is the guy just makes plays. If he can learn the play book, he could turn into a really damn good player. Not the kind of talent you want to put into a package and send to a franchise that has their back against the proverbial wall as far as leverage.

are interested in this guy? That usually says something and like I've said before, it's amazing to me that Dallas is not interested in this one. This seems like a Jerry Jones type guy.

It's the money aspect. Dallas already traded for and is paying Roy Williams.

I would rather include Manningham in a deal for Edwards. The goal is to build the best group of WRs whose talents compliment each other. If we get Edwards he's the deep threat at split end we need to roll coverage away from the strong side, which helps Boss, Smith and the ground game. In filling out the rest of the WR depth chart, I would want guys that bring a unique skill to the table.

- Hixon has deep speed and contributes heavily to specials.
- Nicks is viewed as a strong physical receiver with great hands. I think he can be that great compliment to the starters on 3rd downs that Smith has been behind Plax and Toomer his 1st 2 years.
- Barden could be a serious GREEN ZONE scoring threat once he is up to speed with the game at the NFL level.

I'm not sure what unique skill Manningham brings to that potential group that we wouldn't already have in Edwards, Hixon and Nicks. Also, I would think that Nicks and Barden have the potential to be much better blockers in the running game than Manningham. Both of them were lauded for being accomplished run blockers at the collegiate level in various pre-draft scouting reports.

but the money aspect is big.

I dont think Manningham ever caught a ball that was not a deep ball. I am not trying to dispute that we saw different things, but to say Manningham was dominant is an under statement. With the exception of a 3td game against notre dame, I do not think he was ever the best player on the field. In fact, I think he greatly benefited from playing with Henne, a great deep thrower with a strong pro arm. On the other hand, Braylon dominated games. Braylon had to be the focus of gameplans. Braylon could take a slant all the way (he did so in the classic Michigan State game in the dark when he single handedly led Michigan back from a huge deficit). I just think it is the difference between a very nice college player and a dominant force. Yes Braylon had some big drops, both in Ohio State games and USC games. But he was the dominant figure on those teams.

Secondly, from a personality/character perspective, it is not even close in my opinion. Manningham is not in a position right now to ruffle feathers or create problems. However at Michigan when he was, he took advantage and had a somewhat checkered history. Braylon has been in the spotlight for a long time and what you see is what you get. He is flamboyant, outspoken, etc. However he is not a character problem. He has given back a ton. That is just an aside though.

If Edwards were a free agent, should the Giants sign him for $7-$9 million per? Of course not.

The contract should be the FIRST thing considered in this proposed deal...not the terms of the trade.

1. The WR market is out of whack.
2. Edwards's cost is out of whack within that out of whack market because of his anomalous 2007 season.

We're talking about probably making Braylon Edwards the second highest paid player on the team. Braylon Edwards.

did you watch Braylon? Manningham caught deep passes and made plays in that respect. But having watched every game both of those guys played there entire career, I just do not see how they are really very comparable. Manningham was fantastic at Michigan. Braylon was truly special. I would say, from a Michigan perspective, it was the difference between Marquis Walker and Anthony Carter. Marquis Walker was tremendous at Michigan, caught like 90 passes one season. Great player. Anthony Carter is Michigan, truly a legend. Braylon is in that pantheon. People still talk about Braylon. Just different caliber, though Manningham was excellent.

It's all about the money. Thankfully, JR is not going to upend his teams salary structure for Edwards. Team unity is more important than the possible extra that Edwards would bring to the table.

when you put it in those terms, it doesn't sound too good, does it?

value on Danny Ware let's remember:
1)most of us are basing our evaluation on his preseason game performance and
2) he's a free agent I believe at the end of the season. I believe JR drafted Brown with the thought that Ware would walk in hopes of finding a starting gig.

Making the trade would be contingent on being able to sign BE to a contract the Giants are comfortable with.

The reason we're as good as we are is because at the expensive positions (QB aside), we've developed homegrown talent and had production from them during their 'cheap' years.

Strahan cost a ton - but would we have excelled without Osi on his rookie contract, and then Tuck and Kiwi?

If we hadn't developed one of those guys, we'd be a very different team today.

We need to do that at WR now. We need someone to step up and make some production at a lower cap level. We drafted a couple of guys in the hopes that one of them can product well and stick, and hopefully Beckum will help offset the need for immediate production from them.

It's not the guaranteed SB appearance that some of you are hoping for, but I'm excited to see what Manningham and Hixon can do with a year as Giants under their belts. I'm anxious to see what Nicks and Barden can do as well. Reese has given us so many great rookies of late, I'm extremely confident that one of these guys will shine, and that the offense will adjust enough to negate the need to add a high priced FA who may not even fit here in the first place.

You get burned that way and you can screw up the lockeroom. One by one, JR has gotten rid of the lockeroom headcases. You don't bring another one in that could screw up the chemistry of the team.

Again, he's not TO and I know we have lockeroom leaders, but it takes one major headcase to blow the whole thing up into an ugly mess.

yeah, saw Edwards a lot as well. you are right, he was phenomenal. i thought he was going to be one of the best out of his draft.

they didnt make a big move to get him before the draft or during the draft. Clevelabd keeps floating these offers and rumors to get the Giants interested. There are no offers coming in for this guy and they have drafted and signed a ton of receivers in the last few weeks.

They have no leverage.. offer them a pick at most.. no players...

Manningham and a conditional pick (high as 2nd) assuming Edwards will take plax money. The money plax was being paid didn't disrupt the locker room (Plax himself did).

Nicks WAS a first round pick and despite the BBI illusion that MM was a 1st round talent, he really wasn't. I mean, last year's draft DID OCCUR and lo and behold he was NOT drafted in the first round. Folks that know a heck of a lot more about this than us all passed on him at least once.

Also, if he was some super talent I would have expected more during his rookie year than an occasional screen pass, especially given the loss of Plax.

Finally, and quite frankly to me this is the most damning, the Giants selected TWO wide receivers high in the draft, going so far as to move up to get one of them. Given that Steve Smith isn't going anywhere, is it at least fair to question how the feel about MM in light of this? I think it's fairly clear.

What kind of contract is Hixon worth?

Britt that Danny Ware may end up being more important for us than some think, and I also question just how much the coaches like Bradshaw.

I don't see Bradshaw touching the ball more than 6-8 times a game this year. Important, yes...but I still don't think he touches the ball as much as Ware.

That will depend heavily on how he performs this year.

1)Howie Kitt: Yankees

2) Jay Fiedler

3) Art Heyman(Knicks)

wrong thread

Let's assume Hixon puts up these stats in 2009 -- 65 receptions, 950 yards, and 8 TD's.

What would be an acceptable contract?

we are holding the cards here. They are overloaded with WR's now, BE doesn't want to be there and eventually, the Browns will have to bring the situation to a conclusion. I would rather not lose Manningham

Hixon could very well have put up statistics like that in 2008.

yes, we see you. =)

Didn't someone post a chart earlier this week that showed Hixon and Smith essentially even and out performing Plax and Edwards as far as % caught in more limited time last year?

granted one pass Hixon dropped (and Smith dropped some big wide open passes in important games as well...witness the Pittsburgh game replayed on NFL Channel this week. As did Plax and Edwards) but we need production from all other positons if we are to affford a better than average QB, a dominant DL and some DB's

Which would you rather?

1) An average QB? With a below average backup?
2) Maybe one good DL rusher and a weak Dt rotation?
3) No star DB's just journeymen rotating through one or two years at a time?
4)Edwards on top of the WR/TE/HB we have?

Cannot have all of them...which do you choose?

Whats more, if Mannigham/Ware is attractive to some teams why not trade them for a decent fourth safety?

when we signed Plax. With Plax gone, comparable money will now go to Braylon should we sign him.

yeah a 4th safety is the same as a #1 WR! BRILLIANT

I agree, that if Edwards' price tag comes down, this deal looks good. But at his rumored asking price or without an extension agreed upon, I would stay away.

Plax's money went to Canty, Boley, Bernard.

Manningham is a prospect that was passed on by the entire NFL over 80 times

Thanks for playing

if we sign BE? 600 Yds,10.1 YPC, and 1 TD.

As Terps and many others have said, it's the contract that's by far the biggest issue here.

1) Eli, who rarely speaks out, was pretty forthright before the draft about wanting the Giants to acquire a true #1 wide receiver. I trust he knows the caliber of our young receivers better than we do.

2) The Giants were reportedly very interested in Darius Heyward-Bey and would have traded as high as #16 to get him in the draft. That probably means Nicks was their fourth-rated receiver behind Crabtree, Maclin and DHB. The knock on Nicks has always been long speed. DHB has it, and so does Braylon Edwards. The Giants got a great look at it in the Monday Night game last year when he torched us.

I think the Giants like Nicks a lot but don't think he is the type of receiver that will be true deep threat that requires a safety over the top and forces the corner to play off the line.

I think our QB and front office both want Braylon Edwards. As mentioned numerous times, the issue is likely his contract, not the trade package.

anything for him last year or before this draft

Yet in your world he is a #1 WR despite the fact that our staff did not put him on the field in that role despite needing one last year

Lets let that burst of energy on your part slide as just an exuberant mistake and move on?

On what planet was Plax making what Edwards is rumored to want, even with all his incentives (which he didn't hit).

Agreed the price has to come down but to expect it to be less than Plax's deal is probably wishful thinking. Between 7-9 mill/year (and up to 9 only with performance clauses) and 4-5 years is quite fair

Given those stats, I'd probably offer Hixon around $3 million per...it's about what I'd expect Edwards to produce in '09 if we got him, too.

for Braylon Edwards is lunacy.

Anyone?

1 reciever Eli is going to have an absolutely average year and we might get past the first round in the playoffs if we're lucky. And please lets not use the Patriots as a reference because they clearly have a superior offensive system to ours and also had Tom Brady under center.
I would have much preferred a Braylon contract on this team rather than Canty's. A little off topic but I still feel we way overpayed for Canty especially when we had just signed Rocky Bernaird who is a great player and I don't think Osi and Tuck or too happy with Cantys contract either.

and I'm seeing a lot of the names I saw last night when I first started reading this sucker!

I wanted Edwards but I will agree with GT that 7-9 million is a little over the top. I trust the front office and think he would be a good addition(even giving up MM and this has been covered over and over on this thread and I can't add much to it)but not for that much money. If the Giants can pull it off though I'm all for this move.

of Edward's problems in Cleveland had to do with the Ohio State-Michigan rivalry: there was a natural predisposition on the part of the fans to turn hostile.

Which would make a trade for Manningham either ill-advised or demonstrative of Mangini's inability to learn from the past.

people pack the grocery stores and buy them out, and then it snows like one inch, and people are left with ten gallons of milk that they didn't need in the first place.

site. As I've asked before - compared to his peers, what has Braylon Edwards done to merit being paid on average $7-9m a year for the next three years, guaranteed?
http://www.nfl.com/stats/categorystats?archive=true&seasonType=REG&d-447263-o=2&conference=null&statisticCategory=RECEIVING&d-447263-s=RECEIVING_AVERAGE_YARDS&experience=null&d-447263-n=1&season=2006&qualified=true&Submit=Go&tabSeq=0&d-447263-p=1 - ( New Window )

Understood, but Canty is young and can play DE or Dt if we lose Tuck Osi or Kiwi to injury or contract. Bernard is at then end of his career as is Robbins, with Cofield up for FA at the end of the year.

two different signings for two different reasons

I think you'll be happier with Canty's contract when the Giants are able to produce a fourth quarter pass rush this year.

IMO, the ability to consistently produce a late game pass rush is incredibly important in today's NFL.

If you're going to overpay somewhere, quality defensive linemen is not a bad place to do it.

Now back to our regularly scheduled Braylon Edwares donnybrook .

I agree with you that Edwards was better than Manningham at Michigan. Keep in mind, though, that Manningham only played 3 years at Michigan. If he'd played a fourth year, they'd have been closer. Mario needed only 40 more catches (he had 72 his Jr. yr.) to become the second all-time UM career receptions leader, behind only Braylon (and ahead of Carter, Walker, et al.).

If we were to get BE without giving up Manningham, he most likely gets cut anyway...

Smith (stay)
Hixon (stay)
Barden (stay)
Nicks (stay)
Tyree (stay, specials)
Braylon

That six WRs right there that I'm 90% are making this roster if Braylon is acquired. Moss or Manningham is gone (prob both)

Also acquiring Braylon lets everybody move into a more natural position

Smith (slot)
Nicks (eventual Toomer-esque possession receiver on outside)
Barden (green zone development)
Hixon (burner in multiple receiver sets, with some time at 2 while Nicks develops, KR/PR)

if he meets pro-bowl type numbers. Without that its closer to 7. Very fair given current market value.

You just can't argue with some who thinks Edwards is worth 7-9...

Barring a one year aberration - what's he done to merit $7m a year?

It's a classic case of people wanting to make decisions based on the best case scenario and not what is likely to happen.

How many years did we hear that Shockey would go for 1000 yards and 12 TDs? That Arrington would be a monster? That DeAngelo Hall would finally play to his ability if we traded for him? That Plax would be the Plax of the 2007 NFC title game if we'd just give him a 63rd chance?

Nothing is guaranteed with Edwards except the price tag.

The number of expensive vets a team can sign is limited. The rest of the roster has to be filled with inexpensive talent - either young guys or inexpensive veterans. The ones who sign long-term contracts with large guaranteed portions of money are considered the core of the team and they are who you build the rest of the team around. Tuck, Osi, and Webster are core players on defense. Kiwi? Maybe not.

So who are our core players on offense?

Jacobs and our starting offensive line are the only ones locked in past their rookie contracts. Eli most certainly will be. But who else?

A commitment to Braylon at even 70% of his asking price means adding him to your core. We will build around him.

So the question is - do we want to build around him? The Browns did - they offered him an extension.

I trust Reese & co to make the right decision.

if Edwards wanted 15 million per, some here would be saying "DO IT, JERRY!".

Manningham would likely stay over Tyree. Moss would likely go. But of course they could include someone like Hixon instead, and keep Tyree or Moss.

There is no doubt in my mind that you are right on that.

...we buy beer and wine.

Maybe some of those Olive oil/cracked black pepper Triscuits and pepper-jack cheese.nomnom

Milk/Lactaid? Meh, if we're low I may go for a gallon~

Then I guess you'd be ok with letting Hixon walk after the 2009 season, because there is no way he would sign that kind of deal (just look at what Berrian got with a similar production curve). The Giants are going to have to pay for a WR eventually, unless they want to roll the dice and have a new WR corps every 3-4 years.

I'm not advocating paying BE 10 million per, but your position is extreme at the other end of the spectrum. According to your rationale, we might as well kiss Steve Smith goodbye in 2011 because there is no way he will re-sign for the type of deal you think he is worth.

of having Edwards and Nicks together on the field...is just sick and well worth the mere chance of it happening.

been the X WR since he has been drafted? Or was there someone else there playing X when we was drafted making BE play Z and perhaps Y?

Apparently, the secret ingredient to winning a Super Bowl is Braylon Edwards.

Stupid Reese, pick up the phone damnit!!

You cannot overvalue special teams aces, and tyree is a bonafied stud, coughlin's keeping him on this team if he is healthy

Yes, I would absolutely let him AND Smith walk if they asked for big money.

The WR market is completely out of whack. As such, I'd always have an eye on the position at the draft if I were Reese. If you're going to have a lot of turnover, RB and WR are the positions to do it. You don't want it at QB, OL, or DL if you can avoid it.

What makes you convinced that Tyree can still be a special teams ace?

Maybe he is, but he had an entire year off. He's going to have to fight for his job.

When he signed his deal, he was the lone standout on Special Teams. Since then, the unit has improved.

Tyree sticks over Moss. I like Moss but I think these two draft picks sealed his fate.

That's why I through in the caveat, if healthy. If healthy, he can still do it. Guys like Bates & Tasker did it well into old age.

Ware, Manningham and a 2010 3rd rounder for Edwards?

Yes, please.

Has specials really improved? Last I checked, we're still giving up fairly large kick return yardage, and on punts Tyree was always good for 3 or 4 downed inside the 5...

I don't know if Tyree is still a stud special teams player. He wasn't as good in the super bowl year as previous seasons and now he hasn't played in over 12 months. In my opinion he has tapped out his ability. Keeping him over Manningham or Moss would be a mistake.

on the Giants in 2009.

...how do you know that 9mil is with incentives?

There is no deal...right.

Are you an asshat?

has gotten worse. A lot worse. that actually used to be a strong point for us. I don't know if that's because of the loss of Tyree or Carney's terrible kickoffs but we need to get better there.

I was so overjoyed with the idea the Giants might (gasp!) try to develop their own Braylon and here comes this news. Christ...

Moss does not. And besides, Tyree has ALWAYS risen to the occasion when called upon...even before the greatest moment in human history.

I'd be trying to trade Moss if I were Reese.

I would attribute our 12th best field position in part to Tynes. Hixon has also done a great job getting downfield.

makes $7M per year.

Although he had one less TD than Edwards in 2008. So at 2Td for every 3.5 million I think Edwards is defintiely worth 1.5 million off last years performance.

Makes as much sense as any other

$10.5 million

good points. He'll definetly be an extremely strong addition to the team. I feel we over payed for him, especially after we saw the contract Dallas signed Olshanski (pel.)for about a week later. Hopefully like you both said his signing will keep looking better and better as time rolls on.

something that isn't really important but I found interesting.

David Tyree, according to the player salaries page, is the highest paid WR on the roster right now.

That's all in the past. I wouldn't be trying to trade either until Pre-season. Who knows what Tyree has left and who knows what gains Moss has made?

If its all the same, then I agree with you, but I making a move now seems premature.

Tyree has to show he can rebound from injury, play at a pro bowl special teams level AND contribute to the offense as a WR in some fashion now. If he can't do that, I can see him in a big time dog fight to making this team.

I feel like we're on an island here, for the most part.

if you think MM gets cut before Moss and Tyree. Moss is a goner and Tyree is much older and coming off injury. We have other gunners that played quite well for us last year. I don't think Tyree makes this team either way this year, sentiment aside.

Its more like a peninsula, and you're hardly alone!

?

True, but what do you think the odds are that Moss stays on this team past this year (this is the last season on his contract)? If we hadn't drafted Nicks and Barden, that's one thing...but I just don't see Moss sticking around.

Conversely, Tyree's deal is up in 2011 and he seems to me the type of guy that would play specials for the rest of his career. There's a real value in that kind of guy. Of course, this is all contingent on Tyree being healthy.

That's the objective part of me. The subjective part of me says that Tyree deserves to be on the team. I feel like we owe him that. I know that's not rational and not how a team should be run, but I feel like we owe him that.

I'd do Mannigham and Ware straight up, but no draft picks. Or a 3rd next year and perhaps Ware. Braylon's value is dropping by the minute. His huge contract demands is probably what's killed most deals. Let the kids on the field. You want a "X", that's what Manningham was born to play. He's got the speed to stretch the field.

I'm going to be rooting for Tyree more than any other player, I'll just put it that way.

I'd agree the new draft picks probably push Moss off the roster this Summer, but it remains to be seen if Tyree can return to '07 form, at the same time.

If we can come to terms with BE on an incentive-laden contract that maxes out in the $6-7M range, I'm onboard. Otherwise, I go with what we've got in-house.

it was still the Giants D and smart play by the O that won us a SB. The addition of BE will cost to much in compensation in regards to $ and young players given up.

The NFC is winnable even with the Giants young Wr's. The upgrade on D along with the fact that the NFC is pretty pathetic is reason enough to retain picks and young talent to stay at this level for the next 5 years as I don't see the other teams leap frogging.

I'm more concerned with RB as Jacobs simply will not enter the playoffs as strong as he enters week 1 and Bradshaw may very well have shown his best stuff in 07.

throw some more chum in the water!

.

I agree the Odds are in your favor, I'm just saying there's a lot of ways this could pan out..

Say Tyree is healthy, which is good.

But also say Moss looks really good fielding punts

And say Wright or Woodson or some UDFA or second year CB looks like a stud at gunner..

And say Moss just looks a little better at WR than Tyree, just due to his speed and wiggle..


Sorry, but Tyree makes more than all of them, and though he's been a money player for the team, it would be time to cut him.

I thought they did him a solid last year by keeping him on the roster for as long as they did, then IR'ing him, instead of just reaching an injury settlement.

If Edwards is worth and wants 9 million per year i am pretty sure Brady can be signed for $10 million per year with some creative Abrams accounting. He'll give us a hometown discount to be near Giselle and save on an extra house in Boston.

Then we can trade ELi for picks and trade the picks to NE for Moss and Welker and Seymour. And Brady already has them broken in so Gillbride can simplify the passing trees. Seymour lets us play the 2-9 for sure and can come in for goal and short yardage as a 5th TE. Whats good about this is that we can weaken the Pats while "guaranteeing" the SB

Since we are built to win right now.

Do it Jerry!

or "no brainer" when you have a huge contract to deal with. This has many roster implications because of any contract BE would get.

is that we can also play the 9-2.

When we switch back and forth with the 2-9 it will confuse the Eagles no matter how many WR they draft

probably gets cut? wow.....

Did someone also say Moss might look good returning punts? wow again.........

there is no way Reese is trading Ware.

you name one child Matthew. Next? Naturally. Gunnar.

(((And now, back to the thread.)))

Everything you say is completely fair...and the Giants did do right by him last year, no doubt.

I just think that, if he's healthy, we're a better team with his contributions than we are with Moss's. And I'm a Moss guy.

The guy is a gamer, man. In December if we've got injuries at WR I trust him to show up on short notice.

Guy is a gamer.

that's what I'm saying.

Well then I guess we just have to disagree. Blowing up your WR corps every 3-4 years isn't a formula for success, IMO.

and continues to be money. BE wants a new deal, that's where you make your money in your first free agency.

JR won't upset the salary strucure. He somewhat did that with Canty...won't do it with Edwards.

You don't blow it up...you maintain a pipeline. Big difference.

...not the trees!

At this point, the longer we wait on this, the better the deal will get. Lets see how Braylon and ManKok hit it off at minicamp. That could end up decreasing the compensation that both the Browns and Edwards/Condon are willing to accept.

I think Braylon's attitude issues are overblown. Last year, the Browns season was circling the bowl, the coaches were lame ducks, and the fans were blaming him as the most visible star on the team not on IR. That's miles away from the situation he'd be in on the Giants. Put him on a stable, successful team with respected coaches and veterans, and he'll behave a lot better.

That said, cost is the big reason this probably won't happen. #1 WRs get huge contracts because they're generally not available at any price unless they're sociopaths or on the downside of their career. As teams have gotten better at managing the cap, the more valuable positions have disappeared from the FA market. QB, DE, and OT, primarily, but now CB and WR have also become really scarce. (C, S, and G are next.) Reese wouldn't be in this conversation at all if he wasn't willing to something close to the going rate for young WRs with star potential. (I'm thinking of the Roy W. contract.) If he can work enough team-protection provisions in there, as he did with Plaxico, I'd be on board.

you guys be pissed if Eric just started this thread to drive traffic to the site?

...asshats don't need to be legit in order for us to enjoy all of the mayhem that they cause.

...my passing tree rox!

Got any inside info at dragonwelding.com?

an "Eric asshat?"

I was actually thinking that would be a good PR move to get some post draft attention. Not to say Eric would or wouldn't, but I was thinking it would be funny if it was BS. Either way it does help Eric out.

exactly how this is going to play out, but I'm not telling.

some of you will be happy, others sad...that's the only hint I'm going to give you.

But, GoTerps, I can't understand how you could sugggest that he's worth ony $3M a year. NO WR of his caliber makes that little, and I'm not considering him the 2nd coming. Hines Ward just signed a $22M contract at age 33, with declining numbers himself (60+ catches, 7 TDs).

So because other teams delve in stupidity, the Giants should as well?

Will Go Terps be happy or sad?

I don't play those kind of games and you should know that.

can some be happy and sad at the same time?

Of course. There are more wingnuts here with multiple personalities than there are stains in Randy's shorts.

Eric, if it wasn't obvious I was joking, you're off your game.

if Reese traded Manningham or Ware, I'd be completely shocked, and it would go against everything he's done in the past two years.

?

agreed 100%. I just saw this thread about 5 min ago and that was my first reaction. I'd be upset giving either away, especially Manningham. The pros could outweigh the cons, but it would definitely be uncharacteristic.

Ryan Grant says hello.

you feel about Tyree if Asante Samuals was one inch taller?

Would he still be a gamer?

You think Grant is the same thing?

..

Terps is never happy.

playing soccer?

so all the more reason for The G's to trade him away

Carter for Droughns straight up...
Shockey for a 2 and a 5.

Those are the only trades Reese has made.

They are not similar to this situation, IMO.

As a PSU alumni, I am all too aware of how dangerous Mario can be. He was a Lion Killer against some good D's. Like others said, he is cheap and under contract for a few years.

Don't want to part with Ware either b/c everything I read about him screams of him making the most of his opporunity this year. He is also cheap.

We have a good team, we don't need another "superstar", we just need to keep adding pieces to the puzzle. If BE is going to cost $10 million per, we can spend that money wisely elsewhere. IMHO

Den Benton is reporting of another trade scenario: Barry Cofield or Jay Alford, Mario Manningham and a conditional 2010 pick.


I'd rather do this trade than the Ware trade

why would Grant be dissimilar? He would hold onto Ward to preserve some philosophy? What kind of philosophy is it to only trade young, better players for lesser value?

people around here just remember when I'm not.

And the Shockey trade wasn't made when it should have been...he only did it when there was no other possible recourse.

I still have questions about Reese's ability to manage the trade market based on that, his near trades for Hall and Edwards and their big contracts, and the failure to get a deal done with Cleveland when they made the move for Quinn.

would just go away. Wishful thinking. Before the draft, I was advocating the trade for our 1st and a late rounder. After the draft, I can away with a new found excitement for the youth and potential we have at WR. Is it a death sentence not having that clear #1 this year? Recent SB winners would suggest no, and I believe that now. Can we win it all this year with the current corps? Yes. Outside of that position, I think we have the most complete team in the NFL. Do we have a better chance with Braylon? Who knows?

What I do know is if we end up making this trade and give Braylon the contract he is said to be looking for, to me, we paid too much. Considering the market, it may not be, but for this talented a team, who I no longer think has a necessity for a #1 WR, I think it will be. As far as young, potential star talent at WR, I don't think another team is close. Let's let our guys battle it out in camp and see who emerges this year and next. There are no guarantees in the NFL (BE being the catalyst for a SB), except that we will be extremely competitive and in the running for another SB for years to come with what we have now.

I'm even more worried about getting Braylon to sign at a lesser deal than he had initially asked for. Two, maybe even one nice year in blue and we're right back to dealing with another headache at WR. He'll be unhappy and looking to renegotiate. I'm tired of Giants management having to deal with that. You signed the contract, get over it. Let our young, homegrown guys earn their first big payday the right way.

and I believe that Ware is going to take Ward's place and be one of our 2 feature backs, the other being Jacobs, obviously.

Ware can catch the ball out of the backfield.

The pipeline of WR's? Under your theory, we'd be blowing 2-3 draft picks a year on WR's -- most of which would end up being busts. In any given year, the Giants keep 6 or 7 WR's on the 53 man roster. Hixon and Moss are up at the end of the season, so both of them would be gone (they won't sign for what you think is reasonable). The following year, Smith and Tyree would be gone (Smith won't sign for what you think is reasonable, and Tyree is already making more than he is worth). The following year Manningham would be up, then Nicks/Barden would probably be up the following year.

Even assuming all of the replacement draft picks DON'T bust, that's a ridiculous amount of turnover at the position. Eli Manning would essentially be throwing to a new number one WR every single season or every other season. Realistically, MOST of those WR draft picks would bust, and we'd be extremely thin on talent at the WR position every single year because we are too cheap to retain the talented guys we have.

Then what about the other positions? How are we going to reload along the OL/DL in future drafts if we are too busy blowing premium picks on WR's every year?

then I would agree with you, Bill.

IMO, the only thing that give Ware any role on the team is the progression assumption in people's heads now that Ward is gone. We already know that Bradshaw wants more carries. Jacobs will have at least as many carries. The squeeze would be on Ward. So it's Brown vs Ware for a significant but still fairly reduced role, IMO. And I don't know if anyone without seeing Brown play can say there would be that much of an advantage of having one over the other. Which means that there is still a dpeth chart issue. And that's not counting the 4 TE's (one an H-Back) and FB that you have to find room for.

2007 was an anomoly for BE??

Let's look at this objectively - he's been in the league for 4 years. Conventional wisdom is that it takes 3 years for WR's to "get it".

And in his 3rd year, BE gets........1,300 yards and 16 TD's.

Last year was a bad year, but maybe - JUST MAYBE - that had something to do with the QB play, and the facts they sucked balls.

Say you don't want him becuase of the CAP impact, or becuase the asking price is too high, but to say that his good (fantastic) year was an anomoly, when by conventional wisdom he should have only had 2 good (great) years by now is just silly...Espcially when during that 2nd year the QB play - and the team - were just awful...

I see Ware as the #2 back.

can you honestly say David Tyree has lived up to his contract as a special teams player? After his one pro bowl season in what 03 or 04 he has been fairly average. I am not looking for him to be a stellar receiver but hell he's never caught 20 balls in a season and some guys on here are looking for him "step it up as a receiver" this season. It isn't going to happen. I think we get more out of Hixon on specials plus as a receiver then Tyree is worth. No one wants to say it due to the great championship performance (and I am thankful for it), but like you said there is a certain way to run a team and he (and moss) is the odd man out.

many people are worried about how much we are going to pay BE. Would you rather the Giants not use their available cap room like the other cheap franchises of the NFL? Let the FO get us some damn good players and enjoy the show. They're not gonna charge a Braylon Edwards tax to the fans . And as for the Cap health of the team.. Reese knows how much we can spend and if he decides to give braylon 10 mil a year then rest assured it is not going to be a detriment to our cap and we have to space, even if the beat writers tell us we are only a few mil under the cap like they do every single year whether we sign free agents or not.

And we may be spending alot, but its not like we have a bunch of veteran recievers that will get pissed off at the contract. He'll be our highly payed superstar reciever that most every team has nowadays. There's nothing for our defensive stars to be upset about.

but I don't agree with the notion that 2007 was an anomaly or that Edwards isn't a top wideout. Just look at what happened to Randy Moss' production when he left that crap hole in Oakland and caught on with a good team in the Patriots.

Edwards is one of the top wideouts in the league and if you can't see that then you aren't looking very hard. Still, I'm ready to move on and I think we'll do very well with what we've got.

besides just a pure promotion based upon Ward leaving.

makes more than any other WR currently on the roster. He's had 54 catches, 650 yards, and 4 TD's in his entire career (5 seasons). Steve Smith almost topped those stats last year alone. Tyree is a 5th WR at best, and he'll be lucky if he makes the final roster this season.

from the coaches, from the beat writers.

I believe they are very high on Ware, and it helped them make the decision to let Ward walk.

That's just my belief. We'll see it it comes true or not.

It's going to be Bradshaw (as it should be) barring injury.

Bradshaw will have every oppurtunity to win the position, as Ward had every oppurtunity last year. Bradshaw has showed no signs that he is not capable for this role, and unless he fumbles the pre season away, he is the number two.

Coughlin sticks to his depth chart going into training camp, and based on last year it was Jacobs, Ward, Bradshaw, Ware. With Ward Gone, it will be Jacobs then Bradshaw. As I stated above, Bradshaw is to talented to lose this position

Maybe a change of scenerio might help. But big difference between BE and Moss. Moss established himself prior with the Vikings before going to Oakland. I think the change of scenerio is a valid argument but just saying that Moss already showed with the Vikings that he was a sick player.

Barring fumbles and pass blocking issues, I think he holds onto it.

and can catch out of the backfield the best will be the number 2.

We DO NOT know who that will be at this point, IMO.

Bill, you talk about progression assumption, I think you are also using that assuming that it will be Bradshaw.

but Moss was also viewed as a washed up malcontent at that point which is why he went so cheap, much like Edwards is viewed right now (substituting "washed up" for "just not that talented").

I mean, he could be solid but cmon he's probably the #3 back on the team.

I actually have MUCH higher hopes for Andre Brown and think he'll be our #2 by next year. Jacobs, Brown, Bradshaw and the castoff du jour is more than sufficient.

And this is for Braylon Fucking Edwards!!! It's not like we're trading for Patrick Crayton here.

then one of Ware or Brown is superfluous.

I just don't see how the team can hold onto 4 TE's and 5 RB's. Even if you assume one RB is gone, I think that there is still a roster squeeze and you are going to have to make a RB choice. (I included TE's in the sentence because of the hybrid spot that Beckum will have)

Jerry Reese has been high on Danny Ware since the beginning of last season.

Sure, but he's also high on Jacobs, Bradshaw and Brown. Our backfield is stacked. We can afford to give up our #3 for a #1 pro bowl caliber receiver.

I just can't believe people are thinking Manningham and Ware are a potential road block to this trade. If that offer is on the table, the only thing I see preventing this from going through is Edwards' contract demands. If he will sign for a reasonable rate (nowhere near $10 M) then this trade should get done.

Yeah Moss really seemed depressed there in Oakland, and that's why the scouts before trading met with moss and basically had him do his combine stuff again. I remember watching the draft and they said, that they clocked Moss running 4.29 40. So I guess they felt like his skills weren't an issue, it was just an issue of change of scenery.

Edwards is still young, but comparing the two is different because he only had 1 pro bowl 1,000 + season, while Moss had alot more. So you know that BE has lots of potential as a WR, but at 10 million a year, or so, you only have that 1 year to go off of. With Moss you have a larger body of work where he proved to be successful.

Would a change of scenery work for BE? Who knows? But in the end we still only have a limited amount of work, in terms of years to go by. So I guess that's where the debate lies. Is he worth all that compensation AND that contract for his production, in his career thus far?

this is just more BS like the stuff before the draft. There were no "talks" then so they couldn't be continued and there were no players talked about before the draft and so they couldn't be asking for the "same players".

But I am quite sure this is fun for everyone. It's also based on incorrect information.

And again, I am not questioning Eric's honesty (as I didn't question MattSGS). I am saying their source(s) is/are wrong. Or lying.

a Giants' team source? I could understand the Browns perhaps lying but there would be no point to the Giants' brass lying about it after the draft.

who the hell knows? How do you know what's going on?

For Dave Klein's take before I make any decisions either way.

It is not a Giants' team source (that should pretty much be a given, given the last sentence).

But it is a legit NFL source, someone employed by an NFL organization.

Hmmm...Could be a crock of horseshit smokescreen again instigated by the now designated pain in the ass Browns.

this sounds like what he was talking about after the draft.

Could be. I'm simply the messenger.

I wonder if Creative Artists Agency counts as a "NFL Organization"...

Quote:

I'm simply the messenger

Was the information given to you for the purpose of posting, or did you just decide to post it?

a valid question.

but Terps...you're still complaining about the non-moves Reese has done in trades? How do you know he wasn't negotiating with CLE when DAL stole their first round? I remember arguing with you a few years ago, but can't remember the full details of that trade.

You have to be in the room to criticize a GM for the moves he didn't make. Especially if you look at his first 2 years. He's not perfect, but he isn't dumb either.

I was provided it and I asked if I could post it.

The source is not someone who was new to me.

they do aquire Edwards to let him play out his contract. If next season is uncapped resign Edwards if not then try to workout a deal or just let him walk.

Am I missing something here?

When will you get an update or talk to this guy again? Anytime soon?

(about 600 of them)

Here is my thinking.

IF we were able to get Edwards, the Giants have a legitimate number one receiver. Which is the final piece of the puzzle. IMO.

I have always thought Nicks would be a beast #2.

Steve Smith is the IDEAL slot receiver and still Eli Manning's security blanket over the middle.

You bring in Barden inside the 20, and use him as a red zone threat.

I'm not seeing the downside here. All of our guys still see the field, we lose Ware and Manningham who are virtual unknowns and we press onto Superbowl Caliber Championship teams for years to come.

If we could get Edwards for those terms and sign him to an 8 million a year contract (the other money will be made up when we becomes a star in the NY market)... I say we do it. Don't Look Back.

-Tim

I agree 100% with your post

win a SB, then I doubt Edwards can. Moss and Welker weren't the reasons for the loss, but the point is...no way is Edwards is going to have a Plaxico impact in his first year IMO.

Not only that, but we're going to have to ask him to stay healthy throughout the whole year, or we'll probably repeat '08 again if he gets hurt (assuming no one develops since most of BBI have no faith in them) and the scheme doesn't change that late in the year).

We lost Osi -> apparently no problem
We lost #1 WR -> Playoff loss - that has to change in '09 or we're doomed.

or w/e reason and putting him in the biggest market in the windy Giants stadium and THEN paying him top WR money for only one good year isn't going to finish the puzzle IMO.

Because with all that, we'll need that one piece of the puzzle to be there in the post season and if he's not, then we'll have to rely on the guys who were held back due to Edwards/Plax/Toomer. WR is one of the main reasons we lost to PHI. Hixon, Smith, Barden, Boss, etc. aren't Edwards, but Edwards isn't going to be the final piece to another SB run. Edwards will help, but he'll be asked too much here. We need to develop our own unless a FA is actually worth the pick up (one who won't affect future picks, decisions).

but am less excited about it now. Part of the reason is that I thought picking up Edwards would allow us to go in a different direction with our first round pick. However, now that we've picked Nicks, it's too late for that.

Honestly, if we were going to make a trade, I'd rather see Nicks for Edwards and maybe we throw in a conditional pick based on the performance of both next year. We'd still have developmental guys in Manningham and Barden (and Moss, if you're still hopeful there) to go with experienced players in Edwards, Smith and Hixon (and Tyree, if you're a fan of him). And yes, B.E. will be more expensive than Nicks, but he's also more of a sure thing and still has potential for a high ceiling in a new system with a good QB.

I think this whole thing is bullsh-t.

to include a back up center from cleveland -- they have 6 centers on there roster according to NFL.com

it's all about the money. The contract. Of course Reese would give up Manningham or Ware for a proven WR. That's the least of our worries.

If Edwards is willing to sign a reasonable deal, I am all for trading unknown young players.

Odds are, Edwards wants too much. Will see how it plays out.

I understand what you are saying. However, The Giants are not a team that is rebuilding. We have a Super Bowl Championship Team already assembled.

Braylon Edwards would serve as a big play reciever and decoy. We need the decoy in place, so we can unleash the Beast (Brandon Jacobs) at will.

Opposing teams will respect Edwards lining up on the outside. They do not respect any of our current WR's to hurt them deep.

I trust Jerry Reese to (if indeed he signs him) to make his contract very Giant friendly.

in 2004, Osi was an unknown, too.

Aren't you glad Accorsi didn't give him away to get Manning?

.

Hindsight is 20/20.


It's a chance either way. I'm all for whatever the front office does. They've shown in the past that they can assemble a damned good team.

If they think BE is worth 2 unknowns (to fans at least- I would hope the coaches and FO know what they've got), then I'm all for it.

Reese picked up 2 good WRs and a decent RB in the draft, so I wpouldn't consider Ware (3rd string RB) and Manningham (a #3 wideout) as untouchable - so basically it's Edwards vs. next years #3...pull the trigger on that.

that OUR front office thinks Edwards is worth that.

That's what they (the Browns) are asking for.

Yeah, I'm just saying if it happens, it is fine with me.


I just hope that if we do get BE that #1- he produces and #2- his cap-hit doesn't hamstring us for the future.

a proven #1 WR... Our running game (our biggest asset) is vulnerable.

I want Braylon Edwards for that reason alone.

in 2004, Drew Strojny was also an unknown...

There is a reason the Brown's WANT these players, and there is also a reason that our coaches think highly of them.

you're not really that stupid, are you?

Osi was a passrusher who flashed ability in his rookie year. Manningham is a flaky WR who showed absolutley nothing in his rookie season. HUGE difference. Even if Osi showed nothing at all I'd be reluctant to trade a passrushing talent for a WR. I'd be more than happy to trade an unknown WR for a playmaking WR.

But again, it's all about the money. These rumors never even mention the contract demands and then we have 500 posts on a thread where only about 10 people mention the contract demands. People are pissing on each other about Manningham and Danny Ware...it's kind of funny.

I don't suppose we trade for Edwards and NOT sign him long term until he proves himself? is that an option here? Make a fair deal with Clev, then tell Edwards to play for pay and go from there?

Quote:

Osi was a passrusher who flashed ability in his rookie year. Manningham is a flaky WR who showed absolutley nothing in his rookie season. HUGE difference.

I think you are 100% wrong, here.

we're basing our judgment of players on the Browns judgment? I'd trust Reese's judgment more.

I think the bigger thing here is that he hasn't developed yet into a starter. He may turn out great but if we traded him as part of a deal for a proven WR, it then makes sense in the bigger picture factoring in the young WRs and the rest.

the Giants wanted Drew Strojny.

I really don't want to get into Manningham's rookie year or compare him to Osi of 04. I wouldn't trade defense for offense so I wouldn't trade Osi. And if you believe that Manningham showed the promise of what Osi showed in 04...well...that's an interesting take. But it doesn't really matter anyway.

But just for ha ha's...Osi dominated the Panthers late in 04. Manningham caught a screen pass one time I think. He also had problems with the playbook and really never got on to the field.

If salaries weren't a concern, you trade Manningham for Edwards every single time and never even think twice about it.

c'mon. The guy hasn't turned into a starter?

It's barely been a year since he was drafted. He's still a rookie pretty much.

He was a first round talent taken in the third round, and he was a project, we knew that.

You would trade him away not even a year into it w/out seeing what he can do at all?

.

apparently they didn't want him that badly.

I am quite intrigued with Manningham, FWIW. I don't even LOVE Edwards but he would be an upgrade. Sadly, these diva WRs are out of their minds and want too much money. He aint coming here unless Reese gets him to sign a reasonable deal. Good luck with that....

would you guys object to offering the Browns a 3rd round pick in 2010 but not re-signing Edwards at this point in time?

I think i'd do that.

but I don't want to trade future talent that's already on our roster ie: our players.

Quote:

I am not as asshat but Stan from LA : 4/28/2009 12:19 pm I was told yesterday by a friend who is a big time Brown fan that he heard from someone in the Browns' organization that the Edwards deal was done and it was done a few weeks ago, but that the Giants and Edwards could not come to an agreement on contract extension terms. Apparently the Giants wanted to give Plaxico money to Edwards but Edwards wanted Fitz money. He also said that he was told that the deal could still be done if "BE visits reality with his contract demands."

I hear this is still the case...

but getting a highly motivated Edwards, who would playing for a truck load of money, wouldn't be such a bad thing.

If he blows up this year and goes for 80 with 15 tds....NY could let him walk and most liekly re-coup the 3rd rounder as FA compensation anwyay.

The more I think about it the more I like the idea of dealing a 3rd and even a 6th for Edwards and letting him play for pay.

great work on this thread.

I just don't believe a substantial part of the salary cap should be allocated to the WR position.

but besides BE, not much is allocated to the WR position. A better argument is that you don't think that much cap space should be allocated to a single WR IMO.

total agreement with britt on this. I like what we have and BE is not NY market material.

IF we can do this deal we lose 2 players if im reading correctly. lets say it is MM and Ware. Ware is a RB people. I liked him in preseason just as much as the next person, but he is a RB very replaceable... As for MM potential? perhaps, Is he worth keeping not to grab someone like Edwards, hell no. Let me tell you why:
Firstly, if Edwards comes here assume he is in the 1 slot.right..I personally think Nicks/Smith will fight for 2 and 3, with the understanding that our game changer can return to his older position and guess who can return punts and kicks again. Dont get me wrong, Hixon has a huge upside as a WR but if this happens to go threw, I would not have anything wrong with throwing him in on certain packages to stretch the field. and as a 4. I personally think beckum will be an immediate impact player. So if we do get Edwards. I see Edwards/Nicks/Smith/Hixon lets not forget about Boss, Beckum out of the H-Back. Barden for 3 downs and red zone. We have mad talent.
I wont even talk about the RBS. They speak for themselves. Just my $.02

.

long have you been hearing voices, Stan?

This be the reason we drafted Brown? It's probably been mentioned before, but I'm not reading 14 fking pgs of posts.

Anyway, I'm in the "No Thanks on BE" camp. Fk all that money he's gonna want. He's not good enough to be worth it, imo. I'd rather we go with what we have.
Unless Cle. & BE settles for less. MM needs to NOT be included.

Yeah, Stanley.. the deal has been done for weeks.. except no one knows about it yet! Not even the Browns or the Giants.

Randy Moss and Wes Welker might not have won the Pats a title in 07, but they were a huge reason that team won 18 of their 19 games.

conservative to think that Ware will garner a 3rd round pick.

Thats a joke. You guys have seen him play how many snaps? How many snaps would he even play this year behind Jacobs, Bradshaw and quite possibly Brown?

This is a good deal I think and as long as Braylon isn't a little bitch about his contract and we sign him to an extension (that we don't overpay for), I think we would be stupid not to take this deal.

Jerry Rice's TD record that season.

The last thing we need is another Shockey or Plaxico and to pay more than both of thier salaries combined for him.

so, i would hardly say getting Moss and Welker was a bad move because they lost in the SB

.

and a deal will get done.

becomes a difference maker, if ever. He didn't come from an NFL style offense. He had a wonderlic score near Eli's jersey number. More times than not it takes receivers smarter than he 3-4 years before they have a break out season. Realistically, best case scenario could be that Mario has a big season 2-3 years from now. Worst case, he never figures out the O, how to run the right routes, etc.

BUT without Braylon , we are going to need these guys producing NEXT year, it may be a tall order.

What changed?

for a reason. Even Moss was ahead of him. This season will be no different.

I never said that. I said he had #1 potential. I still think he does. Difference is Braylon has already shown #1 proven dominance in his second year in the league.

late in the year was imo more to do with gilbride not
coming up with a good enough scheme to replace plax
after the incident, it was fine during the suspension when hixon started but he didnt scheme well enough after that

if they come up with a scheme that keeps defenses off balance well enough that could be better than 1 guy that could get injuried and they are back at square one again

im all for the edwards trade but only if they get him at the right price but not giving up too much,if reese thinks he has a good enough squad without edwards then im happy to trust him on that

it MIGHT not be for another 2-3 years. Even many of the great ones took 3-4 years and considering Mario's wonderlic score, his learning curve might be on the long side.

Can you name the last Giants receiver who had 80 receptions for 1300 yds and 16 TDs? There's never been one. Yes it was 2007, but the entire Browns team sucked last year. A change of scenery and a good supporting cast could do wonders for Edwards. We shouldn't let the potential of Mario get in the way. I trust Reese to do the right thing. If we don't trade for him, I would bet that it's because of BE's contract demands more than Mario..

is not allowed on this thread!

in the last 25-30 years or so, the Giants have drafted 15-20 receivers in the first 3 rounds. How many of them have done what Edwards has done? NONE. How many have come close? ONE. Our GOAT, Amani... not until his 4th season and still was about 10 TDs shy. The other 14-19 receivers never came close. And yet people are so vehement about trading a guy with a wonderlic score comparable to Eli's jersey number.

Call me crazy, but intelligence matters. How many of Eli's INTs through '07 were due to the knucklehead Shockey running the wrong routes?

We're not rebuilding - Screw potential.

If the contract numbers were right, I'd make this trade in a second.

Brandon Jacobs said he doesn't want Braylon on the Giants on ESPN 1050

Who was quoting what Jacobs said on 1050 ESPN Radio

so many cant see what you are stateing.

We saw what Moss did for the Pats O. Braylon while not Moss could have a similiar impact on this O, rather than crossing our fingers with a ton of youth.

Could it work out relying on a ton of youth? Sure but the chances are nowhere near picking up a guy who has already shown sustained dominance as a #1 WR on the NFL level.

Total Access is going to discuss it. Starts now.

I love WARE and I don't want to do it unless EDWARDS is signed long term.

Big Blue Blog point #2

Link - ( New Window )

Also, it's obvious the sticking point would be his contract demands and not the Browns asking price.
Move along, there's nothing to see here. This is not going to happen.

he wanted to keep Plax and was hurt when he was released. I don't think Jacobs has much say in personnel matters. And I'm sure he would be happy if BE became a Giant. I agree BE's contract demands will have to come down.

think we have enough youngsters to go with, they just need to step up. and MM is one of those youngsters I'd rather give a shot. the lower price is just a bonus.

the more I think about this and now considering the draft we had, we should be able to do just fine. and if not, it isn't because we didn't get a #1 in free agency, the team simply failed. there is plenty enough talent on this team that the coaches should be able to develop a scheme and the players should be able to make plays.

forget about rookie year, how about second year? I'm talking about staying healthy and making an impact. Ike Hilliard had about 50 receptions and 2 TDs his second year, not bad. Amani didn't do squat until his 4th year. The other 15-20 receivers we've drafted... we're still waiting.

The point is, it quite often takes even great receivers 3-4 years and yet so many here are expecting a break out year from Mario who's not the brightest bulb in the house.

Mario MAY have a break out year, but it might not be for another 1-3 years. It's silly to be counting on it this year when we're a contender. If we were rebuilding we could afford to be patient, but we're not. I feel like a broken record.

and if we don't trade for BE I'll hope for the best. But I won't be surprised if our O struggles and we have an early exit from the playoffs again... while we wait for our young receivers to develop.

pre trade? You'd think the Giants would say, let us talk to him, if he agrees to less than million per year, we'll do the deal.

thats not allowed around here!

Could we win with our super green receiving corp/ Anything is possible BUT the chances are MUCH smaller than bringing in a guy who already has proven #1 NFL production in Braylon.

Is not worth getting BE.

I understand we also are giving a 3 and Ware, but the loss of Ware is offset by Brown so then we are down to comparing a 3 and a rookie for a young WR who is rated as one of the top 5 WR in the NFL.

If Edwards contract is not too ridiculous (over 8.5 Mill @ year) this is a no-brainer. WTF would make anyone think that losing MM is too much to obtain BE?

Quote:

a young WR who is rated as one of the top 5 WR in the NFL.

You can't possibly be talking about Braylon Edwards; Do you even follow football?

That's a shock to me.

Name 5 that are better, and don't based your answer on one year.

Fitz
Moss
Calvin Johnson
Reggie Wayne
Brandon Marshall

I'll continue if need be

Steve Smith.

He would fall somewhere after those top 7, IMO

A fucking secretary and he wants to talk shit and can't even do that respectably...hilarious


Mook,
a fair point. But even if he is the 7th best instead of the 5th would you not make that trade? And how much difference in contract demands would there be for that? Not that mush i would guess. My day really sucks knowing that i actually agree with the mangina

but Edwards is not a top 5 or 10 WR. 15-20 range.

Which is different for everyone. But that is what makes the board great: good football discussion

I would disagree strongly that he was no better then the 15th best WR in the NFL. Besides that, he has many years left in which he can only get better which has to be taken into account. Case in point is that 3 years ago Marvin Harrison could have been argued as the best WR in the league. Now he is being thought of as being done.

Also keep in mind that when we got Plax, his previous 2 seasons with Pitt were less then stellar to say the least. His second best season of his career was his first one with us. So if the player has some past success, a change of scenery can get that back

Nothing.

There's really no compelling case for adding him, whatsoever.

I absolutely make that trade. I'm 100% with you there. To be honest, I only read Flounder's comment and disputed that he was a top 5 receiver. He's top 10, so it really makes no difference

I was/am in favor of trading for Edwards if the Giants can strike a deal they deem worth it. There is risk involved though because Edwards, like Plax on Pitt, is inconsistent.

I don't think Edwards will be a Giant because I think the Giants feel there is some reason to believe Edwards may never reach his full potential.

Was his maturity and as a side result of that lack of maturity; his dedication. Now i don't think we have the maturity aspect to deal with in Edwards, but i do think he has a bit of the diva mentality to him.

If Plax had been a disciple of the game as Rice who knows what his ceiling was