Asshat Alert - Latest on Edwards

I want the opposing Safeties lining up off the LOS.

One of the big pluses for keeping Manningham and Ware over trading for BE, is the combined cap hold their 2 contracts have will not stop us from resigning our key free agents over the next 3 years. If Braylon gets the money he wants then I'm afraid we can kiss Kiwanuka and maybe Steve Smith goodbye.

I'd like to see Edwards here too, and the trade compensation seems favorable to the Giants if this rumor is accurate, but the 800 pound gorilla in the room is the extension for Edwards. I wonder if he'd come down on price if the deal was only 3 years. He would hit his next contract at 29, which would make him a very attractive FA target if he puts up 3 years worth of his 2007 numbers.

love our RB's and am a fan of Bradshaw too. Overall, im just thrilled with the amount of talent Reese and company have on this roster. Lets develop our guys and move on.

Personally, I dont think BE has the mental fortitude to play in NY. He is talented but his flashes of brilliance are not consistent and he wants the bank. NO to MM, NO to Ware.

You are entitled to your opinion, and I've said the big contract BE would likely be handed is a wild card in this trade scenario.

However, "I have Manningham on the non-trade list" puts your opinion on the silly pile, imo. Be honest, you've fallen in love with an unknown.

this is what the BROWNS want. That should tell you something right there. This is their offer.

I find it highly unlikely that Reese is just going to say, "sure, here you go." without a counter offer.

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Personally, I dont think BE has the mental fortitude to play in NY.

He doesn't seem to even handle it well in Cleveland of all places.

He's been crying all season that the fans hate him, that he's not wanted. He'll get ripped to shreds here after he drops a pass.

#1 receiver and I love what Reese has put in our stable, even if it isn't proven yet.

However, drop the pick to a 5th and have BE sign a reasonable contract and I'd be fine with it.

Bradshaw have a neck injury of some type last year that slowed him down, I thought I recall that going on. And he put the ball on the ground a few times early in the season as he was fighting for extra yards and Coughlin stopped giving him the ball. And around that time, Ward stepped up his production so Bradshaw pretty much sat.

he also put the ball on the ground and struggled with pass protection. Hopefully, he's put those issues behind him.

so that's all you need to know in regards to how they are probably looking at Danny Ware, considering they received "perceived value" for Grant (a 6th from GB), and in this case could net "perceived value" in Braylon Edwards.

But I'm sure the biggest conversation taking place right now is whether to trade the conditional, and most importantly, whether to part ways with Manningham.

If the Giants pull the trigger, they do it with the mindset that this football team has been upgraded. That will tell you how they stack Manningham against Edwards, because that is the biggest issue at odds... also whether there is a wide enough talent chasm between Bray and Mario to warrant Plaxico money for Edwards AND to give away that conditional.

I don't want to sound insensitive toward Danny Ware (if you're reading, Danny) but I don't think the Giants bat an eye for him in this discussion.

obviously with my posts that I like MM. call it what you want, I don't think MM should be anyone we would offer. and certainly not part of that package they want. I think letting him go could be one of those players that we see in a year and really regret it.

And I don't think I'm being silly, I'm open and admitting it. There are other players on the roster that we should offer before him.

And my point still stands. Offering MM is no sillier or smart for that matter than offering Nicks if you are going on talent. The only difference is their draft position which is sunk cost at this point.

disclaimer: the only thing I don't know is if the mental aspect of MM is an issue, that I have to trust the coaches on, I just don't have any data one way or the other.

I would give up a #3 next year and that is all-that contingent on Edwards taking 7 million a year for 4 years.
he is not an elite receiver as yet
and Cleveland quite frankly is stuck with him

given that I am a Michigan grad and my 4 year time there (and time since) covered both of there careers. Manningham is not even half the player Braylon is. Manningham was great in college at catching the deep ball. Despite a lack of pure top end speed, he just got open. Braylon, however, was dominant. Braylon was the guy who you would double team and he would still catch the ball. He played with Chad Henne when he was a freshmen and sophomore and not as accomplished, and it did not matter where the ball was thrown. Yes he drops some balls and has some concentration issues, but the caliber player is not even comparable.

I am personally very in favor of the deal. But just wanted to write to dispute what some said. Manningham does not have the talent of Braylon. Does not have the size. Maybe he develops the talent more. But they are not comparable or even close, nor were they in college.

..."why do we value Nicks and Barden more than this kid"(Manningham)

I agree, only a knucklehead would do that. Unless said knucklehead is named Sullivan, Reese or Coughlin.

I wondered why the talks seemed to die so quickly. It makes sense that the Browns wanted young players ready to go, instead of a lot of future draft picks. If they were just interested in picks, I think the deal would've happened a while ago.
I expect a "You've got to do better than that" from Reese. Maybe a 1st day pick, a 2nd day pick and a current player.

would you substittue the less-proven, lower ranked Barden for Mannignham and do the deal? Or better yet, would you substitute Nicks for Manningham and so the deal (basically making it this year's #1 plus next year's 3rd plus Ware)?

Why or why not?

good point, it all comes down to what Reese and Coughlin and Sullivan think. at the end of the day, i trust what they decide. i just don't like how many here are thinking MM is just a throw in, no brainer part of the potential deal.

Wolverine: Good to hear a comparison view from you as someone who has seen a lot of both of them.

...if they make the deal, and they'll be the one's doing so, I'm OK with it. I'm a Michigan fan too, while I've never been to Ann Arbor (one day....ONE DAY!!!)I watched both of their careers and I don't see the great difference that wolverine did. But than, he may have focused closer on their individual talents moreso than I. (I generally watched their careers with my 5-9 yr old son).

I'm not worried about the BS surrounding BE's modeling, geighness or premadonna (nyuk-nyuk)attitude cos' I don't buy that rumor BS, I do worry about his presence if he's paid more than our stud DEs and OLine.

they gave away the 5th pick to the jets
they let eagles move up for a 6th round pick
they are Idiots
Now Braylon has to go soon or they will watch him walk after this year
We should dictate terms --and I would not give much

I watched a bunch of Manningham every time their games were televised and all I know is the guy just makes plays. If he can learn the play book, he could turn into a really damn good player. Not the kind of talent you want to put into a package and send to a franchise that has their back against the proverbial wall as far as leverage.

are interested in this guy? That usually says something and like I've said before, it's amazing to me that Dallas is not interested in this one. This seems like a Jerry Jones type guy.

It's the money aspect. Dallas already traded for and is paying Roy Williams.

I would rather include Manningham in a deal for Edwards. The goal is to build the best group of WRs whose talents compliment each other. If we get Edwards he's the deep threat at split end we need to roll coverage away from the strong side, which helps Boss, Smith and the ground game. In filling out the rest of the WR depth chart, I would want guys that bring a unique skill to the table.

- Hixon has deep speed and contributes heavily to specials.
- Nicks is viewed as a strong physical receiver with great hands. I think he can be that great compliment to the starters on 3rd downs that Smith has been behind Plax and Toomer his 1st 2 years.
- Barden could be a serious GREEN ZONE scoring threat once he is up to speed with the game at the NFL level.

I'm not sure what unique skill Manningham brings to that potential group that we wouldn't already have in Edwards, Hixon and Nicks. Also, I would think that Nicks and Barden have the potential to be much better blockers in the running game than Manningham. Both of them were lauded for being accomplished run blockers at the collegiate level in various pre-draft scouting reports.

but the money aspect is big.

I dont think Manningham ever caught a ball that was not a deep ball. I am not trying to dispute that we saw different things, but to say Manningham was dominant is an under statement. With the exception of a 3td game against notre dame, I do not think he was ever the best player on the field. In fact, I think he greatly benefited from playing with Henne, a great deep thrower with a strong pro arm. On the other hand, Braylon dominated games. Braylon had to be the focus of gameplans. Braylon could take a slant all the way (he did so in the classic Michigan State game in the dark when he single handedly led Michigan back from a huge deficit). I just think it is the difference between a very nice college player and a dominant force. Yes Braylon had some big drops, both in Ohio State games and USC games. But he was the dominant figure on those teams.

Secondly, from a personality/character perspective, it is not even close in my opinion. Manningham is not in a position right now to ruffle feathers or create problems. However at Michigan when he was, he took advantage and had a somewhat checkered history. Braylon has been in the spotlight for a long time and what you see is what you get. He is flamboyant, outspoken, etc. However he is not a character problem. He has given back a ton. That is just an aside though.

If Edwards were a free agent, should the Giants sign him for $7-$9 million per? Of course not.

The contract should be the FIRST thing considered in this proposed deal...not the terms of the trade.

1. The WR market is out of whack.
2. Edwards's cost is out of whack within that out of whack market because of his anomalous 2007 season.

We're talking about probably making Braylon Edwards the second highest paid player on the team. Braylon Edwards.

did you watch Braylon? Manningham caught deep passes and made plays in that respect. But having watched every game both of those guys played there entire career, I just do not see how they are really very comparable. Manningham was fantastic at Michigan. Braylon was truly special. I would say, from a Michigan perspective, it was the difference between Marquis Walker and Anthony Carter. Marquis Walker was tremendous at Michigan, caught like 90 passes one season. Great player. Anthony Carter is Michigan, truly a legend. Braylon is in that pantheon. People still talk about Braylon. Just different caliber, though Manningham was excellent.

It's all about the money. Thankfully, JR is not going to upend his teams salary structure for Edwards. Team unity is more important than the possible extra that Edwards would bring to the table.

when you put it in those terms, it doesn't sound too good, does it?

value on Danny Ware let's remember:
1)most of us are basing our evaluation on his preseason game performance and
2) he's a free agent I believe at the end of the season. I believe JR drafted Brown with the thought that Ware would walk in hopes of finding a starting gig.

Making the trade would be contingent on being able to sign BE to a contract the Giants are comfortable with.

The reason we're as good as we are is because at the expensive positions (QB aside), we've developed homegrown talent and had production from them during their 'cheap' years.

Strahan cost a ton - but would we have excelled without Osi on his rookie contract, and then Tuck and Kiwi?

If we hadn't developed one of those guys, we'd be a very different team today.

We need to do that at WR now. We need someone to step up and make some production at a lower cap level. We drafted a couple of guys in the hopes that one of them can product well and stick, and hopefully Beckum will help offset the need for immediate production from them.

It's not the guaranteed SB appearance that some of you are hoping for, but I'm excited to see what Manningham and Hixon can do with a year as Giants under their belts. I'm anxious to see what Nicks and Barden can do as well. Reese has given us so many great rookies of late, I'm extremely confident that one of these guys will shine, and that the offense will adjust enough to negate the need to add a high priced FA who may not even fit here in the first place.

You get burned that way and you can screw up the lockeroom. One by one, JR has gotten rid of the lockeroom headcases. You don't bring another one in that could screw up the chemistry of the team.

Again, he's not TO and I know we have lockeroom leaders, but it takes one major headcase to blow the whole thing up into an ugly mess.

yeah, saw Edwards a lot as well. you are right, he was phenomenal. i thought he was going to be one of the best out of his draft.

they didnt make a big move to get him before the draft or during the draft. Clevelabd keeps floating these offers and rumors to get the Giants interested. There are no offers coming in for this guy and they have drafted and signed a ton of receivers in the last few weeks.

They have no leverage.. offer them a pick at most.. no players...

Manningham and a conditional pick (high as 2nd) assuming Edwards will take plax money. The money plax was being paid didn't disrupt the locker room (Plax himself did).

Nicks WAS a first round pick and despite the BBI illusion that MM was a 1st round talent, he really wasn't. I mean, last year's draft DID OCCUR and lo and behold he was NOT drafted in the first round. Folks that know a heck of a lot more about this than us all passed on him at least once.

Also, if he was some super talent I would have expected more during his rookie year than an occasional screen pass, especially given the loss of Plax.

Finally, and quite frankly to me this is the most damning, the Giants selected TWO wide receivers high in the draft, going so far as to move up to get one of them. Given that Steve Smith isn't going anywhere, is it at least fair to question how the feel about MM in light of this? I think it's fairly clear.

What kind of contract is Hixon worth?

Britt that Danny Ware may end up being more important for us than some think, and I also question just how much the coaches like Bradshaw.

I don't see Bradshaw touching the ball more than 6-8 times a game this year. Important, yes...but I still don't think he touches the ball as much as Ware.

That will depend heavily on how he performs this year.

1)Howie Kitt: Yankees

2) Jay Fiedler

3) Art Heyman(Knicks)

wrong thread

Let's assume Hixon puts up these stats in 2009 -- 65 receptions, 950 yards, and 8 TD's.

What would be an acceptable contract?

we are holding the cards here. They are overloaded with WR's now, BE doesn't want to be there and eventually, the Browns will have to bring the situation to a conclusion. I would rather not lose Manningham

Hixon could very well have put up statistics like that in 2008.

yes, we see you. =)

Didn't someone post a chart earlier this week that showed Hixon and Smith essentially even and out performing Plax and Edwards as far as % caught in more limited time last year?

granted one pass Hixon dropped (and Smith dropped some big wide open passes in important games as well...witness the Pittsburgh game replayed on NFL Channel this week. As did Plax and Edwards) but we need production from all other positons if we are to affford a better than average QB, a dominant DL and some DB's

Which would you rather?

1) An average QB? With a below average backup?
2) Maybe one good DL rusher and a weak Dt rotation?
3) No star DB's just journeymen rotating through one or two years at a time?
4)Edwards on top of the WR/TE/HB we have?

Cannot have all of them...which do you choose?

Whats more, if Mannigham/Ware is attractive to some teams why not trade them for a decent fourth safety?

when we signed Plax. With Plax gone, comparable money will now go to Braylon should we sign him.

yeah a 4th safety is the same as a #1 WR! BRILLIANT