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Asshat Alert - Latest on Edwards

Eric from BBI : Admin : 5/7/2009 8:18 pm
WARNING: If you do not like rumors or rumor-mongering, please leave this thread immediately for your own mental health. Please don't shoot the messenger. The following was provided to me by a legitimate source (not one of the previous Edwards asshats on this site):

"The talks are still on. The Browns are being cheap right now and have no interest in re-signing Edwards to a big deal. They are willing to take low compensation. They are asking for a conditional next year (high as a 3) and Danny Ware and Mario Manningham (who Mangini wanted badly for the Jets). They were asking for these same two players before the draft, but the feeling is they can get NY to bite now that they got Nicks and Brown in the draft."

"(I do not) know the status of the Giants response to this offer."
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Um, meant BiL  
Davisian : 5/8/2009 11:35 am : link
..
Randy  
dorgan : 5/8/2009 11:36 am : link
Terps is never happy.

When did Carlos Emmons start...  
frets : 5/8/2009 11:37 am : link
playing soccer?
nah, Ryan Grant is better  
Bill L : 5/8/2009 11:37 am : link
so all the more reason for The G's to trade him away
Grant for a 6th rounder....  
Britt in VA : 5/8/2009 11:37 am : link
Carter for Droughns straight up...
Shockey for a 2 and a 5.

Those are the only trades Reese has made.

They are not similar to this situation, IMO.
I don't want to lose either MM or Ware.  
dangerousrappingfrog : 5/8/2009 11:37 am : link
As a PSU alumni, I am all too aware of how dangerous Mario can be. He was a Lion Killer against some good D's. Like others said, he is cheap and under contract for a few years.

Don't want to part with Ware either b/c everything I read about him screams of him making the most of his opporunity this year. He is also cheap.

We have a good team, we don't need another "superstar", we just need to keep adding pieces to the puzzle. If BE is going to cost $10 million per, we can spend that money wisely elsewhere. IMHO
By the way  
Anakim : 5/8/2009 11:42 am : link
Den Benton is reporting of another trade scenario: Barry Cofield or Jay Alford, Mario Manningham and a conditional 2010 pick.


I'd rather do this trade than the Ware trade
I must be missing something,  
Bill L : 5/8/2009 11:43 am : link
why would Grant be dissimilar? He would hold onto Ward to preserve some philosophy? What kind of philosophy is it to only trade young, better players for lesser value?
Ah I'm happy plenty...  
Go Terps : 5/8/2009 11:43 am : link
people around here just remember when I'm not.
Britt  
Go Terps : 5/8/2009 11:47 am : link
And the Shockey trade wasn't made when it should have been...he only did it when there was no other possible recourse.

I still have questions about Reese's ability to manage the trade market based on that, his near trades for Hall and Edwards and their big contracts, and the failure to get a deal done with Cleveland when they made the move for Quinn.
I was really hoping this  
gainesvillegiant : 5/8/2009 11:48 am : link
would just go away. Wishful thinking. Before the draft, I was advocating the trade for our 1st and a late rounder. After the draft, I can away with a new found excitement for the youth and potential we have at WR. Is it a death sentence not having that clear #1 this year? Recent SB winners would suggest no, and I believe that now. Can we win it all this year with the current corps? Yes. Outside of that position, I think we have the most complete team in the NFL. Do we have a better chance with Braylon? Who knows?

What I do know is if we end up making this trade and give Braylon the contract he is said to be looking for, to me, we paid too much. Considering the market, it may not be, but for this talented a team, who I no longer think has a necessity for a #1 WR, I think it will be. As far as young, potential star talent at WR, I don't think another team is close. Let's let our guys battle it out in camp and see who emerges this year and next. There are no guarantees in the NFL (BE being the catalyst for a SB), except that we will be extremely competitive and in the running for another SB for years to come with what we have now.

I'm even more worried about getting Braylon to sign at a lesser deal than he had initially asked for. Two, maybe even one nice year in blue and we're right back to dealing with another headache at WR. He'll be unhappy and looking to renegotiate. I'm tired of Giants management having to deal with that. You signed the contract, get over it. Let our young, homegrown guys earn their first big payday the right way.
Bill, because Grant was buried on the depth chart....  
Britt in VA : 5/8/2009 11:48 am : link
and I believe that Ware is going to take Ward's place and be one of our 2 feature backs, the other being Jacobs, obviously.

Ware can catch the ball out of the backfield.
Terps  
uberpwnage : 5/8/2009 11:53 am : link
The pipeline of WR's? Under your theory, we'd be blowing 2-3 draft picks a year on WR's -- most of which would end up being busts. In any given year, the Giants keep 6 or 7 WR's on the 53 man roster. Hixon and Moss are up at the end of the season, so both of them would be gone (they won't sign for what you think is reasonable). The following year, Smith and Tyree would be gone (Smith won't sign for what you think is reasonable, and Tyree is already making more than he is worth). The following year Manningham would be up, then Nicks/Barden would probably be up the following year.

Even assuming all of the replacement draft picks DON'T bust, that's a ridiculous amount of turnover at the position. Eli Manning would essentially be throwing to a new number one WR every single season or every other season. Realistically, MOST of those WR draft picks would bust, and we'd be extremely thin on talent at the WR position every single year because we are too cheap to retain the talented guys we have.

Then what about the other positions? How are we going to reload along the OL/DL in future drafts if we are too busy blowing premium picks on WR's every year?
If we still had Ward,  
Britt in VA : 5/8/2009 11:53 am : link
then I would agree with you, Bill.
as can Brown, as can Bradshaw  
Bill L : 5/8/2009 11:53 am : link
IMO, the only thing that give Ware any role on the team is the progression assumption in people's heads now that Ward is gone. We already know that Bradshaw wants more carries. Jacobs will have at least as many carries. The squeeze would be on Ward. So it's Brown vs Ware for a significant but still fairly reduced role, IMO. And I don't know if anyone without seeing Brown play can say there would be that much of an advantage of having one over the other. Which means that there is still a dpeth chart issue. And that's not counting the 4 TE's (one an H-Back) and FB that you have to find room for.
Oh, brother...  
speedywheels : 5/8/2009 11:54 am : link
2007 was an anomoly for BE??

Let's look at this objectively - he's been in the league for 4 years. Conventional wisdom is that it takes 3 years for WR's to "get it".

And in his 3rd year, BE gets........1,300 yards and 16 TD's.

Last year was a bad year, but maybe - JUST MAYBE - that had something to do with the QB play, and the facts they sucked balls.

Say you don't want him becuase of the CAP impact, or becuase the asking price is too high, but to say that his good (fantastic) year was an anomoly, when by conventional wisdom he should have only had 2 good (great) years by now is just silly...Espcially when during that 2nd year the QB play - and the team - were just awful...

Bill, I don't see it that way, that's why we disagree.  
Britt in VA : 5/8/2009 11:54 am : link
I see Ware as the #2 back.
Go Terps without being Super Bowl 42 sentimental  
Larry in Pencilvania : 5/8/2009 11:55 am : link
can you honestly say David Tyree has lived up to his contract as a special teams player? After his one pro bowl season in what 03 or 04 he has been fairly average. I am not looking for him to be a stellar receiver but hell he's never caught 20 balls in a season and some guys on here are looking for him "step it up as a receiver" this season. It isn't going to happen. I think we get more out of Hixon on specials plus as a receiver then Tyree is worth. No one wants to say it due to the great championship performance (and I am thankful for it), but like you said there is a certain way to run a team and he (and moss) is the odd man out.
I think too  
muhajir : 5/8/2009 11:56 am : link
many people are worried about how much we are going to pay BE. Would you rather the Giants not use their available cap room like the other cheap franchises of the NFL? Let the FO get us some damn good players and enjoy the show. They're not gonna charge a Braylon Edwards tax to the fans . And as for the Cap health of the team.. Reese knows how much we can spend and if he decides to give braylon 10 mil a year then rest assured it is not going to be a detriment to our cap and we have to space, even if the beat writers tell us we are only a few mil under the cap like they do every single year whether we sign free agents or not.

And we may be spending alot, but its not like we have a bunch of veteran recievers that will get pissed off at the contract. He'll be our highly payed superstar reciever that most every team has nowadays. There's nothing for our defensive stars to be upset about.
I agree that we shouldn't trade for Edwards at this point,  
Curtis in MD : 5/8/2009 11:58 am : link
but I don't agree with the notion that 2007 was an anomaly or that Edwards isn't a top wideout. Just look at what happened to Randy Moss' production when he left that crap hole in Oakland and caught on with a good team in the Patriots.

Edwards is one of the top wideouts in the league and if you can't see that then you aren't looking very hard. Still, I'm ready to move on and I think we'll do very well with what we've got.
Britt, why?  
Bill L : 5/8/2009 11:59 am : link
besides just a pure promotion based upon Ward leaving.
Tyree  
uberpwnage : 5/8/2009 12:00 pm : link
makes more than any other WR currently on the roster. He's had 54 catches, 650 yards, and 4 TD's in his entire career (5 seasons). Steve Smith almost topped those stats last year alone. Tyree is a 5th WR at best, and he'll be lucky if he makes the final roster this season.
Some chatter here and there....  
Britt in VA : 5/8/2009 12:02 pm : link
from the coaches, from the beat writers.

I believe they are very high on Ware, and it helped them make the decision to let Ward walk.

That's just my belief. We'll see it it comes true or not.
Ware will not be number two this year  
Brandon Walsh : 5/8/2009 12:02 pm : link
It's going to be Bradshaw (as it should be) barring injury.

Bradshaw will have every oppurtunity to win the position, as Ward had every oppurtunity last year. Bradshaw has showed no signs that he is not capable for this role, and unless he fumbles the pre season away, he is the number two.

Coughlin sticks to his depth chart going into training camp, and based on last year it was Jacobs, Ward, Bradshaw, Ware. With Ward Gone, it will be Jacobs then Bradshaw. As I stated above, Bradshaw is to talented to lose this position
Curtis  
AnishPatel : 5/8/2009 12:03 pm : link
Maybe a change of scenerio might help. But big difference between BE and Moss. Moss established himself prior with the Vikings before going to Oakland. I think the change of scenerio is a valid argument but just saying that Moss already showed with the Vikings that he was a sick player.
I think its Bradshaw's job to lose at this point.  
Curtis in MD : 5/8/2009 12:03 pm : link
Barring fumbles and pass blocking issues, I think he holds onto it.
The player that pass blocks, doesn't turn the ball over....  
Britt in VA : 5/8/2009 12:05 pm : link
and can catch out of the backfield the best will be the number 2.

We DO NOT know who that will be at this point, IMO.

Bill, you talk about progression assumption, I think you are also using that assuming that it will be Bradshaw.
Anish, yes...  
Curtis in MD : 5/8/2009 12:05 pm : link
but Moss was also viewed as a washed up malcontent at that point which is why he went so cheap, much like Edwards is viewed right now (substituting "washed up" for "just not that talented").
What's all the love with Ware?  
armstead98 : 5/8/2009 12:06 pm : link
I mean, he could be solid but cmon he's probably the #3 back on the team.

I actually have MUCH higher hopes for Andre Brown and think he'll be our #2 by next year. Jacobs, Brown, Bradshaw and the castoff du jour is more than sufficient.

And this is for Braylon Fucking Edwards!!! It's not like we're trading for Patrick Crayton here.
If that is the case (re: Bradshaw)  
Bill L : 5/8/2009 12:07 pm : link
then one of Ware or Brown is superfluous.

I just don't see how the team can hold onto 4 TE's and 5 RB's. Even if you assume one RB is gone, I think that there is still a roster squeeze and you are going to have to make a RB choice. (I included TE's in the sentence because of the hybrid spot that Beckum will have)
armstead,  
Curtis in MD : 5/8/2009 12:08 pm : link
Jerry Reese has been high on Danny Ware since the beginning of last season.
Curtis  
armstead98 : 5/8/2009 12:11 pm : link
Sure, but he's also high on Jacobs, Bradshaw and Brown. Our backfield is stacked. We can afford to give up our #3 for a #1 pro bowl caliber receiver.

I just can't believe people are thinking Manningham and Ware are a potential road block to this trade. If that offer is on the table, the only thing I see preventing this from going through is Edwards' contract demands. If he will sign for a reasonable rate (nowhere near $10 M) then this trade should get done.
Curtis,  
AnishPatel : 5/8/2009 12:13 pm : link
Yeah Moss really seemed depressed there in Oakland, and that's why the scouts before trading met with moss and basically had him do his combine stuff again. I remember watching the draft and they said, that they clocked Moss running 4.29 40. So I guess they felt like his skills weren't an issue, it was just an issue of change of scenery.

Edwards is still young, but comparing the two is different because he only had 1 pro bowl 1,000 + season, while Moss had alot more. So you know that BE has lots of potential as a WR, but at 10 million a year, or so, you only have that 1 year to go off of. With Moss you have a larger body of work where he proved to be successful.

Would a change of scenery work for BE? Who knows? But in the end we still only have a limited amount of work, in terms of years to go by. So I guess that's where the debate lies. Is he worth all that compensation AND that contract for his production, in his career thus far?




It's going to play out as it has all along  
mort christenson : 5/8/2009 12:19 pm : link
this is just more BS like the stuff before the draft. There were no "talks" then so they couldn't be continued and there were no players talked about before the draft and so they couldn't be asking for the "same players".

But I am quite sure this is fun for everyone. It's also based on incorrect information.

And again, I am not questioning Eric's honesty (as I didn't question MattSGS). I am saying their source(s) is/are wrong. Or lying.
Eric, can you say if it is  
Randy in CT : 5/8/2009 12:21 pm : link
a Giants' team source? I could understand the Browns perhaps lying but there would be no point to the Giants' brass lying about it after the draft.
mort  
Rick5 : 5/8/2009 12:24 pm : link
who the hell knows? How do you know what's going on?
I going to wait  
jarrodbunch : 5/8/2009 12:24 pm : link
For Dave Klein's take before I make any decisions either way.
Randy...  
Eric from BBI : Admin : 5/8/2009 12:26 pm : link
It is not a Giants' team source (that should pretty much be a given, given the last sentence).

But it is a legit NFL source, someone employed by an NFL organization.
Eric, (don't be a jerkhead?)  
Randy in CT : 5/8/2009 12:29 pm : link
Hmmm...Could be a crock of horseshit smokescreen again instigated by the now designated pain in the ass Browns.
I'll bet it's deuce...  
Charlie C : 5/8/2009 12:30 pm : link
this sounds like what he was talking about after the draft.
Randy...  
Eric from BBI : Admin : 5/8/2009 12:32 pm : link
Could be. I'm simply the messenger.
Hmmm...  
Enoch : 5/8/2009 12:32 pm : link
I wonder if Creative Artists Agency counts as a "NFL Organization"...
Eric....  
Britt in VA : 5/8/2009 12:35 pm : link
Quote:
I'm simply the messenger


Was the information given to you for the purpose of posting, or did you just decide to post it?
Rick5  
mort christenson : 5/8/2009 12:36 pm : link
a valid question.
I agree with Terps and Britt here in not trading anything for BE...  
kiwi : 5/8/2009 12:39 pm : link
but Terps...you're still complaining about the non-moves Reese has done in trades? How do you know he wasn't negotiating with CLE when DAL stole their first round? I remember arguing with you a few years ago, but can't remember the full details of that trade.

You have to be in the room to criticize a GM for the moves he didn't make. Especially if you look at his first 2 years. He's not perfect, but he isn't dumb either.
Britt...  
Eric from BBI : Admin : 5/8/2009 12:43 pm : link
I was provided it and I asked if I could post it.

The source is not someone who was new to me.
Wouldn't it make sense for the Giants if...  
njbigblue56 : 5/8/2009 12:44 pm : link
they do aquire Edwards to let him play out his contract. If next season is uncapped resign Edwards if not then try to workout a deal or just let him walk.

Am I missing something here?
Eric,  
AnishPatel : 5/8/2009 12:44 pm : link
When will you get an update or talk to this guy again? Anytime soon?
I haven't read all the posts yet...  
Tim in Eternal Blue : 5/8/2009 12:45 pm : link
(about 600 of them)

Here is my thinking.

IF we were able to get Edwards, the Giants have a legitimate number one receiver. Which is the final piece of the puzzle. IMO.

I have always thought Nicks would be a beast #2.

Steve Smith is the IDEAL slot receiver and still Eli Manning's security blanket over the middle.

You bring in Barden inside the 20, and use him as a red zone threat.

I'm not seeing the downside here. All of our guys still see the field, we lose Ware and Manningham who are virtual unknowns and we press onto Superbowl Caliber Championship teams for years to come.

If we could get Edwards for those terms and sign him to an 8 million a year contract (the other money will be made up when we becomes a star in the NY market)... I say we do it. Don't Look Back.

-Tim
Tim....  
njbigblue56 : 5/8/2009 12:51 pm : link
I agree 100% with your post
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