I honestly think now would be a good time as any for this team to switch to a 3-4. It doesn't have to be Rex, either. I think they could mold the personnel relatively quickly with the right moves.
What's the difference? We need to invest a couple of draft picks in that position regardless.
It doesn't have to be some conversion process that takes years. We could probably switch and get a better result than we had this year right off the bat.
A 3-4 than some of you realize. Joseph at nose tackle with Canty and JPP at ends. Also, this idea that JPP would be wasted in a 3-4 is just wrong...look at what JJ Watt is doing at end in a 3-4.. A good DC would still put JPP in a position to make plays. Kiwi at one OLB spot, JW's speed would be a weapon.
Not that I expect Fewell to go anywhere(unfortunately) but it isn't that crazy an idea
We are. If we went into the draft knowing that we were running a 3-4, one solid draft and perhaps a FA addition or two (even for depth) could have us in a decent spot as soon as next year. It's completely realistic.
But the DEs and the philosophy the team has had since TC has been here is 4-3. You have to convince TC to change that (and why would he at this point?) and find a 3-4 DC.
Osi is gone next year. Tuck looks like he's through as a top player. Face it - outside of JPP (who's having a disappointing year) our DEs are nothing special anymore.
Maybe the fact that we haven't had a legitimate top NFL defense in a while?
I have no idea what TC is going to want to do. Should we just not discuss any possibilities at all because of what he may or may not decide? It's relevant.
that'll just make TC & company look to improve their current defense. Not change of philosophy. Especially a coach who has been reluctant to change every step of the way. It's a possibility, but a small one.
the Giants had to commit to the 4-3 because they had great 4-3 DEs, who couldn't make the switch. If Osi's gone and Tuck is done (as an every down player), the need to stay in a 4-3 is diminished.
Canty played 3-4 DE with the Cowboys. JPP is big enough for a 3-4 DE. Joseph at NT is a ?. The LBs are the problem. Kiwi , Boley and Williams would be OK outside. Inside the cupboard is bare.
@Brian_Bassett: Francessa says Pettine is leak. All I know is Pettine was internally SLAPPED last year for leaking stuff to press.
@Brian_Bassett: Also, Pettine forced to use a specific phone for all purposes last year so team could monitor calls. Guess Stringer Bell got him a burner.
all the weirds
Wow, the fact that they made him use a specific phone
Look down south at who we're playing the next 10 years.
Yeah, RGIII. That "gimmick" offense is going to tear us up because Bob IS that good against a 4-3. Our DE's simply can't contain the edges.
Look at what Pittsburgh's 3-4 did against him. I know we won't get as good a DC as the Steelers have, but a 3-4 is a better matchup against them. We're going to have to rebuild the defense, and some of our guys who aren't playing well in a 4-3 might do much better in a 3-4, especially the inside LB's, who have less field to cover in pass coverage.
I agree. A 3-4 is much better suited to neutralize a QB like RG3. You need more speed across the middle layer of the field. In a 4-3, you're relying on one more slower defensive lineman to read and react and usually by the time they identify where the ball is going, they can't catch up and get there in time. The right 3-4 scheme is exactly what you need to stifle an offense like the Redskins'.
It goes beyond the Redskins. They were simply an example. The point is that the league is constantly evolving and speed on the field is at a premium. You can maximize that by basically swapping a slower, larger defensive lineman for a more rangy linebacker. The 49ers have pretty much been the gold standard for the closest thing to a "dominant" defensive unit in this much more offensive era. They're 3rd in points allowed and 2nd in yards allowed this year... last year they were 2nd in points, 4th in yards. They run a 3-4 and they have linebackers who can fly all over the field. Bowman and Willis are lethal on the inside and to top it off, they have Aldon Smith at ROLB. Their front 7 is so strong that it almost entirely masks the fact that they aren't anything to write home about in the secondary.
The Texans also made tremendous strides by switching over. They were one of the worst defenses in football in 2010. Last year they jumped up to 4th in points allowed and this year they're 8th in PA and 9th in yards. Still a very good defense and a team that has been atop the AFC basically all year.
The dominant 2009 Jets defense was 1st in both points and yards. 3-4. 6th in points, 3rd in yards in 2010 as well.
The Ravens have fielded a lot of excellent defenses over the past handful of years. The 2006 Ravens were the best defense in football (1st in PA/yards) under Rex and had a few real good units while he was there. There was really only one "down" year (2007) through his tenure as DC there and even that year, they were 6th in yards allowed. He obviously ran a 3-4 there in those years.
And then there's LeBeau and the Steelers. A team that has perennially excelled over a pretty long stretch now and been probably the most consistent defense over the past handful of years since his return in 2004. He's more or less considered the greatest DC ever. What does he run? 3-4.
It's not that you can't succeed with a 4-3. You can. The Seahawks are doing it this year. The Broncos have been pretty good. The Bears were playing really well when they were healthy. But to me, based on the direction the league is going, I think a 3-4 is better suited to defend the types of offenses that are developing and I think the Giants are actually in a spot where they COULD make the switch if they wanted to for the first time in a long time. It's more realistic now than it has been in past years. I don't think the turnover would have to be as drastic right now.
Will it happen? I don't know. Probably not. I'm not even convinced that Fewell is going anywhere. But we're fans.. I don't see what the issue is with discussing the possibility. I'd personally be in favor of it and am simply sharing my opinion.
No way would I fire Rex. They get better QB play this is a competitive team.
If I was owner I'd be tampering with Andy Reid big time. Imagine bringing him into the Jets his O and Rex's D. A brilliant move - that will never happen.
you do realize we'd have to take the approach as if we would with a troubled player? He'd have to not want to be a cockmonkey anymore and shape up? I don't think he'd fit from a character standpoint.
a member of the Ryan family not being a cockmonkey?
Love TC, but he's not exactly the posterboy for "change", in any sense of the word. Like many of us here have said, Perry most likely isn't going anywhere. Then, even if that were to happen (and I would be fine with that, not that Perry is the only problem with the defense, he isn't), but then something has to take place in TC's mind that forces him to want to change to a 3-4. It's TC, I love him, but it just most likely isn't going to happen.
I honestly think now would be a good time as any for this team to switch to a 3-4. It doesn't have to be Rex, either. I think they could mold the personnel relatively quickly with the right moves.
It doesn't have to be some conversion process that takes years. We could probably switch and get a better result than we had this year right off the bat.
Not that I expect Fewell to go anywhere(unfortunately) but it isn't that crazy an idea
I have no idea what TC is going to want to do. Should we just not discuss any possibilities at all because of what he may or may not decide? It's relevant.
Canty played 3-4 DE with the Cowboys. JPP is big enough for a 3-4 DE. Joseph at NT is a ?. The LBs are the problem. Kiwi , Boley and Williams would be OK outside. Inside the cupboard is bare.
@Brian_Bassett: Also, Pettine forced to use a specific phone for all purposes last year so team could monitor calls. Guess Stringer Bell got him a burner.
all the weirds
Yeah, RGIII. That "gimmick" offense is going to tear us up because Bob IS that good against a 4-3. Our DE's simply can't contain the edges.
Look at what Pittsburgh's 3-4 did against him. I know we won't get as good a DC as the Steelers have, but a 3-4 is a better matchup against them. We're going to have to rebuild the defense, and some of our guys who aren't playing well in a 4-3 might do much better in a 3-4, especially the inside LB's, who have less field to cover in pass coverage.
*facepalm*
I'm willing to bet a change like that hasn't even entered TC's head, nor will it ever.
*facepalm*
I'm willing to bet a change like that hasn't even entered TC's head, nor will it ever.
4-3 DEs are faster than 3-4 DEs, 4-3 DTs are faster than NTs and 4-3 LBs are faster than 3-4 LBers.
And the Skins WRs dropped about 10 balls in that game vs. Pitt. I don't think that was some kind of model performance.
they're faster. if we played 3/4 Osi would probably be standing up and we'd have the devastating twosome of Boley/Chase in the middle.
It goes beyond the Redskins. They were simply an example. The point is that the league is constantly evolving and speed on the field is at a premium. You can maximize that by basically swapping a slower, larger defensive lineman for a more rangy linebacker. The 49ers have pretty much been the gold standard for the closest thing to a "dominant" defensive unit in this much more offensive era. They're 3rd in points allowed and 2nd in yards allowed this year... last year they were 2nd in points, 4th in yards. They run a 3-4 and they have linebackers who can fly all over the field. Bowman and Willis are lethal on the inside and to top it off, they have Aldon Smith at ROLB. Their front 7 is so strong that it almost entirely masks the fact that they aren't anything to write home about in the secondary.
The Texans also made tremendous strides by switching over. They were one of the worst defenses in football in 2010. Last year they jumped up to 4th in points allowed and this year they're 8th in PA and 9th in yards. Still a very good defense and a team that has been atop the AFC basically all year.
The dominant 2009 Jets defense was 1st in both points and yards. 3-4. 6th in points, 3rd in yards in 2010 as well.
The Ravens have fielded a lot of excellent defenses over the past handful of years. The 2006 Ravens were the best defense in football (1st in PA/yards) under Rex and had a few real good units while he was there. There was really only one "down" year (2007) through his tenure as DC there and even that year, they were 6th in yards allowed. He obviously ran a 3-4 there in those years.
And then there's LeBeau and the Steelers. A team that has perennially excelled over a pretty long stretch now and been probably the most consistent defense over the past handful of years since his return in 2004. He's more or less considered the greatest DC ever. What does he run? 3-4.
It's not that you can't succeed with a 4-3. You can. The Seahawks are doing it this year. The Broncos have been pretty good. The Bears were playing really well when they were healthy. But to me, based on the direction the league is going, I think a 3-4 is better suited to defend the types of offenses that are developing and I think the Giants are actually in a spot where they COULD make the switch if they wanted to for the first time in a long time. It's more realistic now than it has been in past years. I don't think the turnover would have to be as drastic right now.
Will it happen? I don't know. Probably not. I'm not even convinced that Fewell is going anywhere. But we're fans.. I don't see what the issue is with discussing the possibility. I'd personally be in favor of it and am simply sharing my opinion.
If I was owner I'd be tampering with Andy Reid big time. Imagine bringing him into the Jets his O and Rex's D. A brilliant move - that will never happen.
The good news is with him and Kiwi, you'd have the OLB's set. You'd have to think about replacing Boley as well.
As I've said a bunch of times, Rex isn't fit to be a HC. He could certainly be an excellent DC, though. He has been in the past.
Either way, I don't see him leaving the Jets and he's probably not someone the Giants would consider anyway.