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LaCanfora CBS: Giants should be sellers

Defenderdawg : 10/7/2013 9:06 am
"If it's me, I'm calling Justin Tuck and Hakeem Nicks into my office, thanking them for their years of service and efforts to win championships. I'm sincerely telling both that we will make an effort to re-sign them in free agency, but with their contracts expiring and this team rebuilding and so many contending teams in need of precisely what they do -- rushing the passer (Tuck) and catching pretty much whatever is thrown near them (Nicks) -- I need to stockpile picks for the 2014 draft."
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Victor in CT  
Eric from BBI : Admin : 10/7/2013 9:43 am : link
that's why that trade was stupid.
cheeseburger : 10/7/2013 9:44 am : link
its pretty simple as to why we can't get a good pass rush. Are front 4 does not win the one on one battles. And when our DC tries to blitz the QB gets rid of the ball quick or we just don't get home.

It's like asking why a boxer is not winning. Reason - he is not as good as the guy in front of him nor does he execute the gameplan
BillT : 10/7/2013 9:44 am : link
Right. I confused cap hit with salary. They could trade him up to the deadline and still save money.
I agree Eric. I said it last week like many others here did.  
Victor in CT : 10/7/2013 9:48 am : link
And I stand by my unending criticism of the Nassib move. Utterly moronic to waste 2 picks for a position that means nothing to this team at this time.
Yeah, thats been my issue with the whole Beason trade to begin with.  
Curtis in VA : 10/7/2013 9:51 am : link
Dumb move.

We should be trading our own guys for draft picks not giving away our draft picks for other players.
Can we  
downinfront : 10/7/2013 9:54 am : link
trade JPP as well? The guy isn't any good. He's slow and stiff.
Yeah. Let's trade JPP when his value is at an all time low.  
Ace718 : 10/7/2013 9:54 am : link
He's under contract next season. Let's see if he can turn things around.
Also, JPP looked a bit better yesterday.  
Ace718 : 10/7/2013 9:56 am : link
Had a lot of QB hurries. Just didn't get home.
I agree about the Beason trade  
BillT : 10/7/2013 9:57 am : link
But they are going to be buyers in the FA market next year. It makes 7th round picks a bit less important than usual.
To me  
downinfront : 10/7/2013 9:57 am : link
he's been the biggest disappointment on the team over the past two years. I just don't see the talent with him.
Sell them all. why not? The season is lost.  
BeerFridge : 10/7/2013 9:58 am : link
We are not the Jets or some team that has to make a show of trying. This season is a failure. Start the rebuilding today.
Why is Nicks trade even considered  
oldutican : 10/7/2013 10:10 am : link
when you can get comp pick that is likely higher than pick in a trade? Once you trade him, doubt he'll come back. And the way things look, he may not want to come back.
I'm guessing we can get more than a late 3rd in 2015  
YAJ2112 : 10/7/2013 10:20 am : link
for Nicks in a trade.
I'd imagine we could definitely get better than a comp pick for Nicks  
BeerFridge : 10/7/2013 10:21 am : link
especially if the receiving team can expect a comp pick for him.
The Patriots would be all over Nicks.  
Curtis in VA : 10/7/2013 10:22 am : link
He and Brady would go on to have a season like the Brady/Moss combo from 2007.
We'll see  
ghost718 : 10/7/2013 10:23 am : link
The Giants tend to sit back and not make trades unless they absolutely have to.

Remember, your also talking about a GM who a few months ago put a countdown clock in the locker room,and took a QB in the 4th round.Now your gonna ask him to clean house.That's a big step in the opposite direction.

They probably won't get a comp pick for Nicks  
BillT : 10/7/2013 10:28 am : link
Because he will be offset by the FAs the Giants bring in next year. The Giants will be FA buyers next year.
NFL trades do not happen  
Spark Em Up 22 : 10/7/2013 10:34 am : link
get this thought out of your head.

No team in the NFL would proactively trade for Justin Tuck the guy is cooked.

Hakeem Nicks is hitting free agency and nobody would give up anything better than a 3rd round pick to rent him.

Trading is risky.  
chops : 10/7/2013 10:38 am : link
And trading now is suicide. There are no values on this team beyond Eli,Cruz and maybe a few other. It would be better to wait.

First, identify the keepers.players we want back and let the rest go. Maybe a

trade would come up as the right choice at the right time.
Hell the Colts gave up a 1st  
Jay on the Island : 10/7/2013 10:43 am : link
for Trent Richardson who is averaging just over 3 YPC. I am sure the Giants could get at least a 2nd for Nicks from Irsay.
Pats gave up a 4th for Talib  
Enzo : 10/7/2013 10:43 am : link
who was a free agent to be and had all sorts of off-the-field baggage. Nicks would/should easily fetch more than that.
The Giants arent trading anyone  
Blue Blood : 10/7/2013 10:46 am : link
aint gonna happen.. You dont trade a 25 year old Nicks... No one wants Tuck.. and Joseph is young..

get new coaches..
Jay and Enzo  
chops : 10/7/2013 10:47 am : link
Nicks will be a free agent.
the Beason trade  
M in CT : 10/7/2013 10:50 am : link
was a move for NEXT year, not this year. his contract voids after this season which means that if he shows us nothing this year (which will probably happen) then we can sign him to a "prove it" contract going forward.

so it's a MINIMAL risk, HIGH reward trade. any GM in his right mind would be willing to spend a 7th rounder to get a potential starter and team leader at MLB, particularly when you can acquire that player for pennies on the dollar.

true, he hasn't looked the same since his surgeries, but also true, it usually takes about 18+ months to recover from microfracture surgery.

so, do you risk a 7th rounder in the hopes that the guy fully recovers from microfracture surgery? yes, you do, because if he does recover, he's a Pro Bowler at MLB - a position we've been unable to fill for years. and if he doesn't recover, it's merely a 7th rounder. those picks are nearly worthless because you can always go out and fill your roster with UDFAs.

it was a no brainer.
Enzo : 10/7/2013 10:53 am : link
and I just gave an example of a recent trade where a team was able to extract decent value for a soon-to-be free agent.
"we can sign him to a prove it contract going forward"  
Enzo : 10/7/2013 10:54 am : link
any reason we couldn't have done that anyway without having to trade for him this year?
Does anyone know what the cost to acquire Beason was?  
jcn56 : 10/7/2013 11:02 am : link
I still haven't seen anything official.
jcn, neither have I,  
Big Blue '56 : 10/7/2013 11:05 am : link
but I've been hearing "conditional" whatever that means here
I've heard anything from a 5th to 7th.  
Ace718 : 10/7/2013 11:06 am : link
Conditional means it depends on performance  
jcn56 : 10/7/2013 11:07 am : link
but even conditional has to have some terms to it. A conditional 7th round pick, where after a certain number of snaps or some other performance metric is met could become a 6th or higher.
M in CT : 10/7/2013 11:08 am : link
yeah, because we'd have to compete with the rest of the league to acquire him.
"we'd have to compete with the rest of the league to acquire him"  
Enzo : 10/7/2013 11:10 am : link
you mean like we're going to have to do anyway this offseason?
M in CT : 10/7/2013 11:11 am : link
we can negotiate a deal with him before he hits the open market. no other team can.
wow, really?  
Enzo : 10/7/2013 11:15 am : link
that's awesome! Of course he's more likely to try and test the free agent waters, you know, like nearly every other guy does when they get this close.
mjvm52106 : 10/7/2013 11:18 am : link
especially since we have seen the Giants trade for a LB, Ravens for an OT and the Colts trade for a former top 5 draft pick RB. The NFL has changed its rules some and in a way has tried to turn the trade deadline into an more exciting time and possible chance for teams to make moves to help fix injury depleted areas or to go after that championship they badly want. Maybe this year trades do happen...
jcn, sorry I wasn't clear.  
Big Blue '56 : 10/7/2013 11:18 am : link
I know what conditional is and I tried to indicate that with the word "here." Instead I should have said "in this case." I think what you cited as an example, may very well be the terms
you sound pretty clueless  
M in CT : 10/7/2013 11:20 am : link
and your sarcasm isn't funny or endearing.

you think Jon Beason is going to insist on testing the open market coming off 3 injury plagued seasons and microfracture surgery? if he did, he'd hear some crickets, but that's about it.

like i said, low risk, high reward. in all likelihood, Beason is toast and won't pan out, meaning we lost a 7th rounder. but you pay for the potential with a player like this.

watch - Reese will sign him to a prove it deal going forward and next year he'll get a chance to prove it. if he does, great. if not, very little harm done.
RB^2 : 10/7/2013 11:27 am : link
We'd have exclusive right to negotiate with JON BEASON?

Wow. What a coup.
could be a coup  
M in CT : 10/7/2013 11:29 am : link
time will tell.

would you have preferred to save that 7th rounder for a guy who might not even make the team?
Could have been a coup  
RB^2 : 10/7/2013 11:39 am : link
in 2009 maybe.

Be honest, are you being sincere about this or ironic? Your argument is funny, I just don't know which kind of funny. Thanks.
there's no incentive for a pending FA  
Enzo : 10/7/2013 11:44 am : link
to take the "make good" deal you referenced earlier prior to becoming a free agent. Those are deals that guys take when all the offers have dried up. If he has anything left, he'll be able to get that deal any time from just about any team looking for LB depth. Follow the league for a bit and you'll figure all of this out eventually. Or not.
I wouldn't firesale on the cheap  
JonC : 10/7/2013 11:47 am : link
but I'd certainly be a potential seller, not a buyer.
dead serious  
M in CT : 10/7/2013 11:52 am : link
and Reese seems to agree with my line of thinking so...I'll take his opinion over yours. thanks.
And in 2009  
M in CT : 10/7/2013 11:57 am : link
it would've cost us a #1 pick to get Beason. So i'm glad we didn't try for the "coup" back then because it would've cost us a very valuable pick.

Enzo, I don't even know how to respond to what you're saying at this point. If you think Beason will insist on trying the open market next season, coming off several injury plagued seasons and microfracture surgery, with absolutely zero recent tape to show that he's recovered yet, then...agree to disagree.

I think Reese is playing the long game with Beason and that he'll keep Beason here for a very team-friendly deal. We shall see.
M in CT....  
OZgiants : 10/7/2013 11:32 pm : link
Enzo is being playfully snarky but I think he is 100% right. Your logic for Beeson is circular. I think we all agree that Beeson's current contract is to be voided in 2014. Firstly, if he plays very well, you might need to part with a 6th round pick, not 7th. If he plays poorly you lose a 7th round pick but let's assume 7th either way. You are assuming that by trading for him, we have attained a value in having primary negotiating rights to him before he hits free agency. Your argument is that he doesn't want to go to free agency because no one wants him. Why is it necessary to get primary negotiating rights to a player that you openly admit has no takers on the open market? It makes no sense. You also say if he doesn't show enough this year, cut him and say good riddance, therefore there is no value to 2014 anyway. Let's say he does show something. He isn't going to justify that price tag in 2014 anyway.. so we still void the deal and look to get him signed to a new deal. If he played well enough, why wouldn't he test the market? He would have tape showing him playing well so the argument that no one wants him would be irrelevant.. assuming he played well, someone would want him and he'd go to the highest bidder (maybe that is us but I don't see why we'd get a discount). So taking this full circle, you want to trade a pick for him so we can sign him for next year because no one will want him unless he plays well and then he goes to the highest bidder? Makes no sense but please let me know what I am missing. I don't think the motivation for this trade had ANYTHING to do with 2014. They traded a pick for this guy to help them THIS year, there is no value in next year, he will either go to the highest bidder or anyone who will have him at the minimum. Maybe he does play well, maybe he doesn't play well but any player who's value is only good for the 2013 season is not worth giving anything up for. Maybe who we would have taken in the 7th round of 2014 wouldn't make the team anyway but you can't beat something (a 7th round pick which is looking like a late 6th round pick) with nothing (our 2013 season).
It's not only primary negotiating rights.  
glowrider : 10/8/2013 12:40 am : link
It's an extra season in the organization and control of his health (for better or worse).

Extended pre-season and rehab if they're thinking next year. This is the setup. Invest in you, you invest in us.
Were you guys watching the same game I was?  
chopperhatch : 10/8/2013 12:50 am : link
JPP a BIT better? The guy was hell on his side of the line. Getting to a very mobile QB, Batting down passes, he even sealed the edge against probably THE most elusive RB in the game right now. He was the only good thing about the line Sunday. He, Amukamara, Paysinger and Pugh developing are the only reasons to watch at this point.
And that was really his only true sign of life  
chopperhatch : 10/8/2013 12:51 am : link
after his surgery. The guy is rounding into shape. The man with three first names is about to start killing people.
OZgiants : 10/8/2013 3:12 am : link
i'll concede that there is upside in having him in the system for the rest of the year but this is an NFL veteran playing Mike in a 4-3 defense, its not exactly trying to learn Mandarin. It's a stretch but fair point. I still argue that this was selling future assets for present gain. Not exactly a sound strategy when you are 0-3 and look terrible... now 0-5 and are decimated by injuries and look terrible.
Dallas might be  
bob in tx : 10/8/2013 11:03 am : link
interested in Tuck.
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