LaCanfora CBS: Giants should be sellers

think anyone would want those players. What do you Hakeems worth is right now. Lots of drops hanging his QB out. Tucks value is even worse.

basically nothing in a trade right now. Nicks and Joseph are a different story.

but Justin Tuck's stock is lower than ever. They'd be lucky to scratch out a 7th round pick for him.

He's been washed up for some time.

that we are going to sit them and play rookies, if their play continues as is?!

but the only guys that are going to net you quality draft picks are Eli and JPP, and both probably arent available

If someone would give us a 3rd or 4th for Tuck (unlikely) I'd consider that. Nicks I just assume keep unless someone gives us a 1st (again, unlikely).

If someone gives us a 3rd rounder for Tuck, I take that & run.

is trading anything for Tuck. I'd be surprised if we could even get a 7th.

The problem with trading Nicks is the one he cites as a partial reason to do so, namely that we can always get him back in FA next year. But that's exactly why teams would be reluctant to trade for him, unless they work out a long term contract before the trade. Nobody wants a rental, unless maybe all they give up is a very low pick.

Not finishing his route on one interception, waiting for balls to fall in his breadbasket instead of his patented PLUCKING it out of the air, and playing with no passion or care about winning.

It's as if he's saying: "Yo Eli and Cruz, go earn those gig paychecks...I'm still waiting on mine"

..

but Tuck will retire a Giant this offseason.

He's DONE. Maybe he will go to camp for another team but I dont see him staying on.

I say don't overestimate our talent. But a contending team could use someone like Tuck or Jenkins or Rolle or Nicks.

Tuch still have value, IMO. We are critiquing a guy on a team where every DE looks like crap. That leads me to believe its part scheme, part old regime wearing off.

I can see Tuck landing with a contender that needs leadership at the DE spot that con give a young guy some rest. 49ers and Texans come to mind.

However, I don't think Tuck is trade-able.

dismissing Tuck's value on a contending team probably sound like Cowboys fans did back in 1990 when Everson Walls came to the Giants.

for a late round pick and get his contract off our hands.

he is the weakest link on the DL.

I believe he can be tendered next year, which will produce a higher draft pick if he leaves than what they could get today.

With Nicks :
If there is any thoughts to not extending him trade him, unless the Giants are absolutely willing to at least offer money that was handed out to the #1's this past off season. He should be traded.

Really there is nothing else of worth on the offensive side of the ball. Eli is not going anywhere.

Rolle:
We might actually get something decent here, but he is making a lot of money.

Tuck:
Even a 7 is worth it at this point.

Kiwi:
Even a 7 is worth it at this point.

Webster:
I'd put feelers out

I'd say trade a LB or 2, but we wouldn't even get a bag of game used balls back.

Linval will be a UFA.

we should be able to do better than 7th rounder for many of these guys. You don't think a team like the Broncos could use some of our defenders?

If a guy like Nicks is going to be a problem, sure because you have another WR who can step up. But firesale the team is just silly.

I would love to get another 1st rounder though. If we get a high first round pick, you have to be able to go BPA, but need to be able to get an Oline and LB. BPA with your top pick, OLine with the 2nd 1st rounder (say Nicks), and ILB with an (assumed early) 2nd round pick could be a huge score for this team on draft day.

but shouldn't the comp picks that we would get for Nicks/Tuck if they leave as Free Agents be better than what someone would offer?

from a cap perspective

his contract, via trade, for even a 7th.

The player he flashed at times and actually was in 2008 just isn't now. The team probably contributed heavily to that, but... it is what it is.

That's a joke and anyone suggesting it is an idiot. Nicks, I don't know. I'm sure you could get something but I don't care about the 0-5 you can't send up the white flag. Not now not ever really.

Tuck is done.

to accommodate these vets with big price tags?

Bengals? Texans?

highest comp pick is a 3rd rounder, which is at the end of the round. I imagine Nicks would almost certainly net us a 3rd rounder, depending on what FA we sign. I can't see Tuck getting a deal any where that would get us more than a 6 or 7. We'll probably be signing a number of FAs that will offset Tuck and probably even Nicks.

playmaker. If I'm a contending team he's worth a #2 pick or even a #1 if I know I'm drafting low in the round. Is Tuck even a good player at this point? Even if he is, he's always a big risk to stay healthy. Can't see anyone giving up more than a fifth rounder or maybe a fourth for him. Rolle is still good but he's got a big cap #, correct? Won't be easy to trade if that's the case.

And no one's going to trade much for a DE who stops the run but can't generate any heat on the QB.

I could see contenders being interested in Joseph but not Tuck.

Rolle would be a wash if we traded him now.

SHould be the first in line for the services of Nicks

They get a top flight receiver and they are rolling into the playoffs at this point.

Not too early. The trade deadline is in three weeks.

AJ Green + Nicks

Brady with Nicks

Luck with Nicks

yeah, you're right... I thought he had more bonus money left than that. Remaining salary saved would offset the accelerated bonus.
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Unless he specifically asked to be traded, I'd let him retire a Giant

played well against the run. Pass rush has been non-existent.

I wish I knew why the Giants can't generate a pass rush. Even JPP, the past two seasons is ineffective.

In a few more games trading him will cost them 1 or 2 mil on the cap and they can't afford that.

Fewell last the season?

That is three games between now and then and we play on Thursday. As bad as things have been, it's not like there wasn't good things with KC and Philly games.

how the heck are we going to resign this guy...to how the heck can we trade this guy....sad state of affairs in giantsland right now.....

As I thought and would have liked.

I agree with you I think Nicks and especially Joseph would be hot commodities on the open market. First I would try to hammer out a deal with both before making a move but if contract negotiations don't progress then I would make a move.

.

actually, we would save money on a Rolle trade. We'd only be eating an extra $2 million in bonus money that isn't already on this year's cap, and at worst we'd be saving 3.5 million (half of his $7 million for this year) of his salary. Even factoring in the need to add salary to replace him on the roster, we'd get a net cap gain.

Linval Joseph, who is only 24, and is pretty good at his job??

He and Hankins should be the fixtures on the DL for years.

Tuck might net a 6th.

And get our pick back? Because by the time he is ready to contribute they will be 0-8

trade Linval. I'm merely pointing out he will not be a RFA.

There are some players on this team who may be on the downside of their careers, but the bring championship-level experience and leadership to a team that may need a piece or two to get over the top.

Hell, George Young gave up a 2nd round pick for a supposedly washed up OJ Anderson in '86.

that's why that trade was stupid.

its pretty simple as to why we can't get a good pass rush. Are front 4 does not win the one on one battles. And when our DC tries to blitz the QB gets rid of the ball quick or we just don't get home.

It's like asking why a boxer is not winning. Reason - he is not as good as the guy in front of him nor does he execute the gameplan

Right. I confused cap hit with salary. They could trade him up to the deadline and still save money.

And I stand by my unending criticism of the Nassib move. Utterly moronic to waste 2 picks for a position that means nothing to this team at this time.

Dumb move.

We should be trading our own guys for draft picks not giving away our draft picks for other players.

trade JPP as well? The guy isn't any good. He's slow and stiff.

He's under contract next season. Let's see if he can turn things around.

Had a lot of QB hurries. Just didn't get home.

But they are going to be buyers in the FA market next year. It makes 7th round picks a bit less important than usual.

he's been the biggest disappointment on the team over the past two years. I just don't see the talent with him.

We are not the Jets or some team that has to make a show of trying. This season is a failure. Start the rebuilding today.

when you can get comp pick that is likely higher than pick in a trade? Once you trade him, doubt he'll come back. And the way things look, he may not want to come back.

for Nicks in a trade.

especially if the receiving team can expect a comp pick for him.

He and Brady would go on to have a season like the Brady/Moss combo from 2007.

The Giants tend to sit back and not make trades unless they absolutely have to.

Remember, your also talking about a GM who a few months ago put a countdown clock in the locker room,and took a QB in the 4th round.Now your gonna ask him to clean house.That's a big step in the opposite direction.

Because he will be offset by the FAs the Giants bring in next year. The Giants will be FA buyers next year.

get this thought out of your head.

No team in the NFL would proactively trade for Justin Tuck the guy is cooked.

Hakeem Nicks is hitting free agency and nobody would give up anything better than a 3rd round pick to rent him.

NFL TRADES DO NOT HAPPEN

And trading now is suicide. There are no values on this team beyond Eli,Cruz and maybe a few other. It would be better to wait.

First, identify the keepers.players we want back and let the rest go. Maybe a

trade would come up as the right choice at the right time.

for Trent Richardson who is averaging just over 3 YPC. I am sure the Giants could get at least a 2nd for Nicks from Irsay.

who was a free agent to be and had all sorts of off-the-field baggage. Nicks would/should easily fetch more than that.

aint gonna happen.. You dont trade a 25 year old Nicks... No one wants Tuck.. and Joseph is young..

get new coaches..

Nicks will be a free agent.

was a move for NEXT year, not this year. his contract voids after this season which means that if he shows us nothing this year (which will probably happen) then we can sign him to a "prove it" contract going forward.

so it's a MINIMAL risk, HIGH reward trade. any GM in his right mind would be willing to spend a 7th rounder to get a potential starter and team leader at MLB, particularly when you can acquire that player for pennies on the dollar.

true, he hasn't looked the same since his surgeries, but also true, it usually takes about 18+ months to recover from microfracture surgery.

so, do you risk a 7th rounder in the hopes that the guy fully recovers from microfracture surgery? yes, you do, because if he does recover, he's a Pro Bowler at MLB - a position we've been unable to fill for years. and if he doesn't recover, it's merely a 7th rounder. those picks are nearly worthless because you can always go out and fill your roster with UDFAs.

it was a no brainer.

and I just gave an example of a recent trade where a team was able to extract decent value for a soon-to-be free agent.

any reason we couldn't have done that anyway without having to trade for him this year?

I still haven't seen anything official.

but I've been hearing "conditional" whatever that means here

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but even conditional has to have some terms to it. A conditional 7th round pick, where after a certain number of snaps or some other performance metric is met could become a 6th or higher.

yeah, because we'd have to compete with the rest of the league to acquire him.

you mean like we're going to have to do anyway this offseason?

we can negotiate a deal with him before he hits the open market. no other team can.

that's awesome! Of course he's more likely to try and test the free agent waters, you know, like nearly every other guy does when they get this close.

especially since we have seen the Giants trade for a LB, Ravens for an OT and the Colts trade for a former top 5 draft pick RB. The NFL has changed its rules some and in a way has tried to turn the trade deadline into an more exciting time and possible chance for teams to make moves to help fix injury depleted areas or to go after that championship they badly want. Maybe this year trades do happen...

I know what conditional is and I tried to indicate that with the word "here." Instead I should have said "in this case." I think what you cited as an example, may very well be the terms

and your sarcasm isn't funny or endearing.

you think Jon Beason is going to insist on testing the open market coming off 3 injury plagued seasons and microfracture surgery? if he did, he'd hear some crickets, but that's about it.

like i said, low risk, high reward. in all likelihood, Beason is toast and won't pan out, meaning we lost a 7th rounder. but you pay for the potential with a player like this.

watch - Reese will sign him to a prove it deal going forward and next year he'll get a chance to prove it. if he does, great. if not, very little harm done.

We'd have exclusive right to negotiate with JON BEASON?

Wow. What a coup.

time will tell.

would you have preferred to save that 7th rounder for a guy who might not even make the team?

in 2009 maybe.

Be honest, are you being sincere about this or ironic? Your argument is funny, I just don't know which kind of funny. Thanks.

to take the "make good" deal you referenced earlier prior to becoming a free agent. Those are deals that guys take when all the offers have dried up. If he has anything left, he'll be able to get that deal any time from just about any team looking for LB depth. Follow the league for a bit and you'll figure all of this out eventually. Or not.

but I'd certainly be a potential seller, not a buyer.

and Reese seems to agree with my line of thinking so...I'll take his opinion over yours. thanks.

it would've cost us a #1 pick to get Beason. So i'm glad we didn't try for the "coup" back then because it would've cost us a very valuable pick.

Enzo, I don't even know how to respond to what you're saying at this point. If you think Beason will insist on trying the open market next season, coming off several injury plagued seasons and microfracture surgery, with absolutely zero recent tape to show that he's recovered yet, then...agree to disagree.

I think Reese is playing the long game with Beason and that he'll keep Beason here for a very team-friendly deal. We shall see.

Enzo is being playfully snarky but I think he is 100% right. Your logic for Beeson is circular. I think we all agree that Beeson's current contract is to be voided in 2014. Firstly, if he plays very well, you might need to part with a 6th round pick, not 7th. If he plays poorly you lose a 7th round pick but let's assume 7th either way. You are assuming that by trading for him, we have attained a value in having primary negotiating rights to him before he hits free agency. Your argument is that he doesn't want to go to free agency because no one wants him. Why is it necessary to get primary negotiating rights to a player that you openly admit has no takers on the open market? It makes no sense. You also say if he doesn't show enough this year, cut him and say good riddance, therefore there is no value to 2014 anyway. Let's say he does show something. He isn't going to justify that price tag in 2014 anyway.. so we still void the deal and look to get him signed to a new deal. If he played well enough, why wouldn't he test the market? He would have tape showing him playing well so the argument that no one wants him would be irrelevant.. assuming he played well, someone would want him and he'd go to the highest bidder (maybe that is us but I don't see why we'd get a discount). So taking this full circle, you want to trade a pick for him so we can sign him for next year because no one will want him unless he plays well and then he goes to the highest bidder? Makes no sense but please let me know what I am missing. I don't think the motivation for this trade had ANYTHING to do with 2014. They traded a pick for this guy to help them THIS year, there is no value in next year, he will either go to the highest bidder or anyone who will have him at the minimum. Maybe he does play well, maybe he doesn't play well but any player who's value is only good for the 2013 season is not worth giving anything up for. Maybe who we would have taken in the 7th round of 2014 wouldn't make the team anyway but you can't beat something (a 7th round pick which is looking like a late 6th round pick) with nothing (our 2013 season).

It's an extra season in the organization and control of his health (for better or worse).

Extended pre-season and rehab if they're thinking next year. This is the setup. Invest in you, you invest in us.

JPP a BIT better? The guy was hell on his side of the line. Getting to a very mobile QB, Batting down passes, he even sealed the edge against probably THE most elusive RB in the game right now. He was the only good thing about the line Sunday. He, Amukamara, Paysinger and Pugh developing are the only reasons to watch at this point.

after his surgery. The guy is rounding into shape. The man with three first names is about to start killing people.

i'll concede that there is upside in having him in the system for the rest of the year but this is an NFL veteran playing Mike in a 4-3 defense, its not exactly trying to learn Mandarin. It's a stretch but fair point. I still argue that this was selling future assets for present gain. Not exactly a sound strategy when you are 0-3 and look terrible... now 0-5 and are decimated by injuries and look terrible.

interested in Tuck.