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How the Giants have faired in rounds 4-7 since 2003

Rosie Brown HOF75 : 12/19/2013 1:50 pm
I have been reading this board most days for about 8 years. This is my first post. In the late 50's Rosie Brown use to give my boss a few of his tickets to 3-4 games a year. Rosie was a first class guy and proud to use his name in my handle.

I'm going to state my opinion on hits and misses for two 5 year time periods. 2003 to 2007 was the Ernie Accorsi/Jerry Reese period. I am aware that Ernie left in mid January of the 2007 and wasn't at the draft in 2007. My belief is that the scouts, organization and methodologies at the time of the 2007 draft had Accorsi's fingerprints on it.

2008-2012 is the Jerry Reese/Marc Ross VP of Player Evaluation plus Chris Mara as the Senior VP of Player Evaluation. As a fan it is not possible to know how much weight each man's opinion carries is the draft process. We also don't know how much the position coaches opinions weigh in the draft process. We really don't know if Simtim was Tom Coughlin's pick or not. It may be that so many people are involved that almost no one believes they are responsible. I believe the Giants have drafted poorly (particularly in the mid and late rounds)over the past 5 years and this is one of the major reasons for our poor showing this year.

In my opinion Jerry Reese and John Mara are responsible for this failure.

I think it was Bob Kraft who said "it's not your best 15 players but your worst 15 players who determine how our team does on the field".

2003-2007
Hits
Zak DeOssie
Barry Cofield
Brandon Jacobs
Kevin Boss
Gibril Wilson
David Diehl
Michael Johnson(not a star but 159 tackles not bad for a 7th rounder)
Frank Walker
Ahmad Bradshaw
David Tyree
Reggie Torbor (150+ tackles)

Misses
Roderick Babers
Guy Whimper (still playing)
2005 5th round pick to San Diego (could be considered a hit depending how you value Eli's contribution)
Adam Koets
Charlie Peprah
Eric Moore
Jamaar Taylor
Willie Ponder
Gerrick McPhearson
Drew Strojny
Isaac Hilton

2008-2012
Hits
Jonathan Goff (earned starter status when an injury took him out)
Jacquian Williams (154 tackles for a 7th round pick)

Misses
Adrien Robinson(early call but really hasn't seen the field in 2 years)
James Brewer(starting due to injury but could get Eli killed.)
Phillip Dillard
Travis Beckum
Bryan Kehl
Brandon Mosley
Greg Jones
Mitch Petrus
Andre Brown (left as a miss and returned after 5-6 teams as a hit)
Matt McCants
Tyler Sash
Adrian Tracy
Rhett Bomar
Marcus Kuhn (9 tackles severe leg injury)
Matt Dodge
Andre Woodson

When I see Jerry trading up to draft Jernigan or Nassib it drives me crazy. There's a lot of solid players to be found after the first 3 picks.

I am sure some or many of you will have different opinions on the players listed above. This is my effort to point out how poorly the Giants have done in the later rounds over the past 5 years. I tried to be as objective as I could.
Cheers,
Bob
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RE: BBB  
Mason : 12/20/2013 10:34 am : link
In comment 11406366 Rosie Brown HOF75 said:
Quote:
My point is that the Giants drafting over the past 5 years(2008-2012)is significantly worst than it was in the previous 5 years (2003-2007) in rounds 4-7. This should be clear at this point. Something changed in the organization for this to happen. It's not a random event. I do not think it's a simple answer but management should be aware and hopefully are working to fix it.

Some here want to credit the magnificent draft of 2007 all to Jerry Reese and none to Ernie Acorrsi. I disagree. If 2007 makes Jerry Reese a drafting genius then what happened in 2008,2009 and 2010 in rounds 4-7. Nearly a complete failure. Do you believe that we pin that on Marc Ross and Jerry had no responsibility?

The responsibility of the draft is spread over the scouts, positional coaches (Dl,Ol,DB,etc)who I am fairly certain will grade various prospects, Head Coach, Off Coor, Def Coor, and Management. The process is complicated and I am sure very thorough. Many people are asked for their input. In the end it is hard to assign responsibility for failed picks.
Cheers,
Bob



You are correct. In 2008 not only did Reese step away from the draft, he allowed Coughlin significant input into draft. Anyone cares that Sintim wasba Coughlin and Sheridan pick? That Mike Sullivan personally scouted Harden and JJ? How about Gillbride and Pope begging for Beckum? Nope. Even when the coaches and owner tells you this info it goes unnoticed. Accorsi's approach to Coughlin is very different than Reese reward to Coughlin. Hell Mara has his own hands on this roster. Anymore BC alums need a chance?
How in the world are there so many teams  
Jimmy Googs : 12/20/2013 10:44 am : link
with worse records than the Giants?

We are awful and are now limping to a finish. What do those teams' blogs sound like?
Bill in UT  
fkap : 12/20/2013 1:13 pm : link
bingo.

the Reese regime (that includes Chris Mara, the owners, the coaches) has only been pedestrian in any aspect of managing: draft, bringing in FA, keeping FA, not knowing when to give up on players, cap management. Folks want to point out the 2 rings. Others want to point out 4 misses out of the last 5 years, no offseason success other than those 2 magical years, and no real optimism that we're going to be gaining that 3rd ring any time soon.
RE: RE: BBB  
arcarsenal : 12/20/2013 1:35 pm : link
In comment 11406489 Mason said:
Quote:
In comment 11406366 Rosie Brown HOF75 said:


Quote:


My point is that the Giants drafting over the past 5 years(2008-2012)is significantly worst than it was in the previous 5 years (2003-2007) in rounds 4-7. This should be clear at this point. Something changed in the organization for this to happen. It's not a random event. I do not think it's a simple answer but management should be aware and hopefully are working to fix it.

Some here want to credit the magnificent draft of 2007 all to Jerry Reese and none to Ernie Acorrsi. I disagree. If 2007 makes Jerry Reese a drafting genius then what happened in 2008,2009 and 2010 in rounds 4-7. Nearly a complete failure. Do you believe that we pin that on Marc Ross and Jerry had no responsibility?

The responsibility of the draft is spread over the scouts, positional coaches (Dl,Ol,DB,etc)who I am fairly certain will grade various prospects, Head Coach, Off Coor, Def Coor, and Management. The process is complicated and I am sure very thorough. Many people are asked for their input. In the end it is hard to assign responsibility for failed picks.
Cheers,
Bob




You are correct. In 2008 not only did Reese step away from the draft, he allowed Coughlin significant input into draft. Anyone cares that Sintim wasba Coughlin and Sheridan pick? That Mike Sullivan personally scouted Harden and JJ? How about Gillbride and Pope begging for Beckum? Nope. Even when the coaches and owner tells you this info it goes unnoticed. Accorsi's approach to Coughlin is very different than Reese reward to Coughlin. Hell Mara has his own hands on this roster. Anymore BC alums need a chance?


I haven't looked deep into this enough to know whether or not it's totally accurate.. but wouldn't it make sense to involve Reese heavily in the draft again if this is the case?
This whole Reese thing sounds like  
Bill in UT : 12/20/2013 2:00 pm : link
the Peter Principle. You have a guy who's good with the draft, so you take him away from the draft and put him in charge of FAs, cap management, contracts, and then put someone not good with the draft (Ross) in charge of that. I guess at this point you can't demote Reese back to just draft management.
Bill  
TMS : 12/20/2013 2:59 pm : link
Right on, the GM job is on the job training for Reese and Ross both. Notice no one wanted Ross as a GM when those jobs opened a while back even after our two SBs. Unfortunately they took Gittleman instead. We are stuck with them but for how long?
Mason  
Rosie Brown HOF75 : 12/20/2013 6:12 pm : link
Thanks. An eye opening post.
Cheers,
Bob
Jerry Reese when he drafted Zac DeOssie:  
Neverend : 12/20/2013 7:44 pm : link
Quote:
Reese’s post-draft comments on DeOssie: “I think he has a lot of value. Number one, he is big, he is fast, he is athletic. His gymnastic numbers at the Combine were off the charts. The low level of comp, you have to weigh that. But you evaluate everybody the same. So we weigh in that he played at Brown. So we also weigh in that he is big, he is fast, he plays hard, he has great character, he long snaps. Ryan Kuehl is going to be here for a couple more years, maybe, but after that, this kid could be your long snapper, save you a roster spot. So he had value in a lot of ways. He can actually run down the field and probably make a tackle. And he will play on all special teams…He is always going to play on the core special teams. You want big, fast athletes on your core special teams. The long snap is something (that adds value). At some point in his career the guy is going to battle for a starting spot…We did talk about him in the third (round). But the defensive tackle had more value at that time for us. He was still there in the fourth (round) and we were very pleased that he was still here. I think we got a real value pick right there.”


from bbi
they almost drafted phillip dillard  
Neverend : 12/20/2013 7:46 pm : link
in the 3rd round too. lmao.
sounds to me  
fkap : 12/20/2013 7:48 pm : link
like they drafted Zak as a ST, and hoped he would factor in the LB situation.
Sounded to me  
Bill in UT : 12/20/2013 8:15 pm : link
that they drafted a LB who could double as long snapper. Why else would he be talking about saving a roster spot?
the comment practically  
fkap : 12/20/2013 8:48 pm : link
jizzed at his ability to play specials, while believing that his measureables would make him a project at LB, hoping that he would pan out at LB.

the ST panned out, the LB didn't. that comment, IMO, puts ST first, while putting hopes on LB. just my interpretation.
ok  
Bill in UT : 12/20/2013 8:50 pm : link
:)
Bluntly  
Some Fan : 12/20/2013 9:17 pm : link
A few of your hits and misses make no sense. For example, Jonathan Goff is a huge miss.
Some Fan  
Rosie Brown HOF75 : 12/21/2013 4:20 pm : link
Goff became our starting middle linebacker in his third year on the squad (2010). He was the starter for all 16 games that year. Total of 80 tackles in 2010-54 individual and 26 assits. In August of 2011 he tore his ACl virtually ending his career with the Giants. In my opinion if you can find a starting middle line backer in the 5th round who you latter loose to injury the guy is a good pick.
Cheers,
Bob
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