My wife is a smart enough woman to know to stay away from me during the draft as she knows this is the busiest 3-day event of the year on the site.
But when it is all over, she is curious to know what happened.
I finally get a chance to sit down on the couch after putting the kids to bed. She pours me a glass of wine.
Wife: "How did they do?"
Me: "Mostly OK. Drafted a bunch of team leaders and smart guys."
Wife: "Did they finally get someone to block for Eli?"
Me: "One guy."
Wife: "That's it?"
Me: "Yup."
Wife: "What about guys signed after the draft?"
Me: "None that I can tell yet."
Wife: "What the hell are they doing?"
She said, "Imagine guys had nipples on their balls."
Hahahaha, how do you follow up on that.?
Oh well. It is what it is. Nothing I can do about it.
Mook, they added three possible starters. If everything works out then we are in great shape. The problem even in the best case scenario is where is the depth. Best case scenario is that Beatty gets healthy and returns to form which allowed him to sign the contract he did. Walton comes back from two years off and stabilizes the center position. Richburg starts right away at right guard. Pugh develops. Schwartz continues to improve. That means Snee is our backup and who else? Brewer? What about our tackles?
It is definitely worrisome.
The o-line will sort itself out. I thought we needed a back-up C and a swing Tackle headed into the draft and we got the highest rated C. The key is cohesion but either way we've addressed the problems there and I'm excited to see how it all shakes out.
Team has been a playoff contender for most of a decade and a two time champion , and at the first sign of restructuring, you can't lose faith in the process and the IQ of the people who put it together.
Anyways Schwartz is part of that clientel and credited his best year and new contract to LB's training.
Weston Richburg was the only rookie of the group. I'm hoping adding 2 of these guys has a huge impact
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with the one guy they did take but I think they needed at least one more in the first few rounds. I don't think the front office believes that the offensive line situation is that bad. But then again they didnt last year and they were clearly wrong, their philosophy on the offensive line has come back to bite them the last 3 years.
Mook, they added three possible starters. If everything works out then we are in great shape. The problem even in the best case scenario is where is the depth. Best case scenario is that Beatty gets healthy and returns to form which allowed him to sign the contract he did. Walton comes back from two years off and stabilizes the center position. Richburg starts right away at right guard. Pugh develops. Schwartz continues to improve. That means Snee is our backup and who else? Brewer? What about our tackles?
It is definitely worrisome.
They have backups in spades. Brown has been a backup. Mosley showed enough to keep as a backup. Jerry is a backup.
You can only carry 7 OL on game day, so don't think you need a backup at all 5 line positions.
The o-line will sort itself out. I thought we needed a back-up C and a swing Tackle headed into the draft and we got the highest rated C. The key is cohesion but either way we've addressed the problems there and I'm excited to see how it all shakes out.
+1
Link - ( New Window )
They did address the OL position. I went into this offseason hoping the giants would bring in two legit vets and one legit draft pick. And I got that and maybe a little more when you add in the other backup types that were signed in FA.
You can't force picks if the value isn't there. I just hope bromley was worth the pick as it was pretty high. I guess that's the one worrisome pick. The rest look pretty safe to me.
We addressed the OL in FA in a big was as well. I just don't get the sky is falling mentality from the OL perspective. We look much better off on paper than we did last year. Also factor in the Blocking TE we signed should help improve the blocking. The potentially new screen passes the OC wil bring to the table should help the OL as well. The Giants haven't been able to run a screen in ages it seems.
Where else was a rookie going to come in and improve this team on the OL in 2014? I don't think a rookie tackle after the 1st round was going to come in and be better than what we have now.
Charles Brown is a swing tackle backup.
Schwartz can play RT
Don't know if they're keeping brewer
Richburg says he can play Guard and has played Tackle as well.
John Jerry is a backup guard
I liked Mosley's efforts last season, and he's a converted tackle too.
What they might have needed was a Left Tackle. They didn't leave one on the board. There was never one available to them after Lewan got picked.
That's ridiculous. They addressed the line in FA.
Now, you (and others) might not like the guys they acquired, but it's bullshit to say they didn't believe the line needed improvement. They wouldn't have signed FOUR guys otherwise...
A shitty offensive line ruins the entire team. The ENTIRE team.
With a shitty offensive line, you can't control the line of scrimmage and the clock. With a shitty offensive line, you can't pass the ball, much less run it.
It doesn't matter how good your defense is, if they are on the field for 40 minutes, you are going to lose.
I am just a small time college fan so I don't pretend to know what some of these draft picks will result in...I just know that the end result will be jack shit unless we find 6 or 7 lineman who can actually do their damn job well for once. The volume of free agent signings worry me. It's unusual that these types of overhauls work out well. That's the kind of stuff the Redskins do...and look how bad they've been and for how long. Offseason Champs amounts to nothing.
At least the shitty run blockers of 2012 could pass block worth a shit, so Eli could literally carry our non-existant running game to the SB. Hard to give Reese credit for that considering what Eli had to overcome.
Great. Your wife heard you complain about protection for Eli. Or she saw him get smashed last year. Wonderful.
All of a sudden she's an expert, the mouthbreathers on bbi are validated, and every poster on the internet knows more than the pros.
Draft is a failure. And the non football people are right.
Awesome.
Quote:
I don't think the front office believes that the offensive line situation is that bad.
That's ridiculous. They addressed the line in FA.
Now, you (and others) might not like the guys they acquired, but it's bullshit to say they didn't believe the line needed improvement. They wouldn't have signed FOUR guys otherwise...
I think they addressed one position on the line in free agency. Schwartz will be a solid player.
Walton hasn't played in over 2 years, sorry but I dont think signing a guy like that is addressing anything. Could it work out? Sure, but it's unlikely and relying on him would be a mistake imo.
Jerry and Brown both suck imo. They'll provide some depth I guess but the Giants will be a lot better off if neither one sees the field.
I don't think they deserve the benefit of the doubt when it comes to the line anymore. It's been a disaster for a few years. I like Schwartz and like the center in the second round, but I'm still very concerned about RG and LT. Just hope Beatty bounces back, they clearly believe he will based on the draft.
Would any Tackle drafted in the 3rd round really make an improvement to this team right now. I would venture to say the free-agents brought in are likely just as good as anyone we would have gotten there (hence why they are 3rd round and later picks). Even if Beatty isn't up to snuff, I do not see any lineman drafted at that point starting at LT (or RT for that matter assuming they swing Pugh over to left in that situation).
Not to mention that the D-line has as many question marks. Potentially 2 new starters who were rookies last year (Moore and Hankins). JPP has been inconsistent and injured...We also have very little depth at the position.
The only other option was to take a lineman in rounds 1 and 2 and potentially get 2 starters. Yes, i agree that would have been good for the O-line, but we have large hole at receiver with the Nicks departure. Heck, even with Nicks there it seemed like we had little depth at the position.
Regardless most on BBI were clamoring for Donald in round 1 and am O-lineman in round 2 (myself included)...or Zack Martin in Round 1 and a TE or DE in round 2. Either way the fact that the Giants improved what was likely the weakest part of the O-line (I am sorry m but having Walton who hasn't played in 2 full seasons and has had a devastating ankle injury being the only real player that would be standing directly in front of Eli is far from ideal).
I am not sure there was anything more we could do with the picks we had going into this year. Not to mention there is still time in free agency.
Great. Your wife heard you complain about protection for Eli. Or she saw him get smashed last year. Wonderful.
All of a sudden she's an expert, the mouthbreathers on bbi are validated, and every poster on the internet knows more than the pros.
Draft is a failure. And the non football people are right.
Awesome.
Agreed. I remember debating with MookGiants before the draft and he was convinced the Giants needed to draft two o-linemen early (why, I don't know -- maybe he missed free agency). Bottom line is that these so-called rankings before the draft mean squat. And just because we didn't draft whomever some felt was a "top four offensive lineman" doesn't mean we're doomed.
But this is the line they have now and we just have to hope its good enough. If Beatty bounces back the line should be fine, if not we could be in some trouble.
I would have liked Martin, but I can see the need for Beckham, too.
Just wish they took another lineman in the first 4 rounds, even though I realize they would not have helped for this specific year, I just would like another guy to possibly develop. A big reason why they were in the position they were last year is because they simply did not invest many high picks on the OL since 2005. Beatty and Pugh are the only 2 in an 8 year stretch being drafted in first 3 rounds.
They believe they addressed the line. We will have to see about that I guess
Jerry seems to be insurance for Snee, but is he any good? We will see.
Brown was an abortion for the Saints last year.
Jerry seems to be insurance for Snee, but is he any good? We will see.
Brown was an abortion for the Saints last year.
Why do you keep assuming whomever we "should've" drafted would somehow fare any better?
A lot of eggs right now are in the Will Beatty basket. We'll see if it pays off. Between the injury and just how bad he was last year it's hard to be optimistic.
Merely pointing out that might wife did clarify something that I think she is 100 percent correct about.
If they haven't significantly improved the line, then nothing else will matter.
1/5 of the Giants runs last year were for losses. The Giants were constantly in 2nd and 3rd and long. And when Eli dropped back, he was under immediate duress with one legit target (Cruz). Now he has another target. And they have a center for the future. But these FAs they signed better pan out and Snee and Beatty had better rebound. If not, you guys will say McAdoo sucks.
A lot of eggs right now are in the Will Beatty basket. We'll see if it pays off. Between the injury and just how bad he was last year it's hard to be optimistic.
Just what are you talking about? Walton is a stop-gap...yeah and? Did we not just draft Richburg? You somehow think that the competition between Schwartz, Snee, Jerry, Brewer, Mosley and Herrman at guard isn't enough? Serious? Your only somewhat valid point is with Beatty and he's had more good years than bad. Don't have an issue with the Giants expecting a return to form with better parts around him. And as far as getting younger, aside from Snee who exactly is old? Oh, I get it, we should just draft another o-lineman...just because.
Merely pointing out that might wife did clarify something that I think she is 100 percent correct about.
If they haven't significantly improved the line, then nothing else will matter.
1/5 of the Giants runs last year were for losses. The Giants were constantly in 2nd and 3rd and long. And when Eli dropped back, he was under immediate duress with one legit target (Cruz). Now he has another target. And they have a center for the future. But these FAs they signed better pan out and Snee and Beatty had better rebound. If not, you guys will say McAdoo sucks.
Ok fine. But the football people in charge of the decisions feel differently according to both their draft strategy and free agency to this point.
So why is anyone's opinion valid at this point in relation to the people who do this sort of stuff for a living? Let it play out.
And with respect don't start threads that perpetuate the belief that this draft is already a bust without a snap of football, a workout, or even a positional meeting playing out.
It's petty, unprofessional and short termed simple minded.
I'd be more inclined to believe this if he didn't just take a hefty paycut in the off-season.
I'm merely pointing out my firm belief that if they don't fix the line, there are going to be significant problems.
I'm merely pointing out my firm belief that if they don't fix the line, there are going to be significant problems.
I firmly believe that the Giants believe they've done that. We can speculate at every position.
What if JPP is a one-year wonder?
If Eli is noodle-armed going forward?
On and on. I guess that's what these forums are for.
If they would have used more high picks on the OL in previous years they likely wouldn't have been in the situation they were last year and wouldn't have to go out in free agency signing a bunch of guys to try and fix the line.
My problem with Beatty is I fear he could be a guy who just isn't that passionate about football and isnt going to give his all after getting his one big pay day. His play last year before he got hurt was so bad it's just crazy to think the guy in previous years could be the same player.
I dont want stop gaps anymore along the line. I want to build a very good young offensive line that can stay together for a while, and the place to do that is through the draft, not free agency.
I have no expectations for Brewer, Hermann, Mosley. They havent shown much of anything to date and the Giants developing lineman that they drafted over the last 10 years speaks for itself.
If Brown is needed this year, I believe the offensive line is in trouble. And then you need to cut Beatty, which means you're then with a huge hole at either LT or RT (depending if they move Pugh, although we dont know how he would be at LT). And they wouldn't have any real options on the roster to solidify that position.
I like the center pick. I like the Schwartz signing. I don't like the situations at RG and LT right now. And this is assuming the center will play well as a rookie, which is probably a stretch but im optimistic about it. Thankfully they are not putting all their eggs into the Walton basket, despite paying him a nice chunk of money.
We will see what happens. Some of you want to just automatically give the front office the benefit of the doubt on the offensive line and the decisions they've made when its been a mess for 3 years now.
Tell me who should've drafted. I'm all ears.
I'm merely pointing out my firm belief that if they don't fix the line, there are going to be significant problems.
That goes without saying. You know I'm always oline first and build from there.
But I have to have faith that the FO and staff feels that they're well on the way to correcting the line's deficiencies with the FA pick ups and limited population during the draft.
I can't fathom that the draft somehow worked THEM...rather than the Giants working the draft.
Am I thrilled by their picks? I can't say that. But at this point in my lifetime of knowing, playing, coaching, and having a perspective-related view of football I'm not comfortable with simplifying their picks with a pass/fail grade at this point.
That stuff is for the media, fantasy players, and casuals.
Brown was a train wreck last year. You're comfortable with him at LT if Beatty isnt ready to go?
The type of thinking that you have right now is the exact reason why they are in this situation in the first place. Not developing any interior lineman since Snee, not hitting on a 4th-7th round lineman since Diehl, and not using enough 1st-3rd round picks on offensive line since 2005. That leads to them having to try to always fix the line through free agency, which is a bad plan. Free agency should be used to solidify positions, not fix them entirely.
Reese and the front office deserve the benefit of the doubt when it comes to most positions. But OL and LB are the two positions they dont deserve the benefit of the doubt anymore.
I just think they have not placed a real importance on offensive line in the draft over the last decade. They continue to think free agency their offensive line issues. I hate that strategy.
You seem to think that their failures on the offensive line have nothing to do with not using enough high picks on them in the past and not developing anything after the first few rounds. I don't agree with that at all, it's the reason they are in this position in the first place, and now have to try to fix it with free agency because it was so bad last year
I just think they have not placed a real importance on offensive line in the draft over the last decade. They continue to think free agency their offensive line issues. I hate that strategy.
You seem to think that their failures on the offensive line have nothing to do with not using enough high picks on them in the past and not developing anything after the first few rounds. I don't agree with that at all, it's the reason they are in this position in the first place, and now have to try to fix it with free agency because it was so bad last year
So then I'm to assume you don't know who they should've drafted, right? As I said, you believe they should've just drafted...somebody. Anybody. Alrighty, then.
Free agency worked for them with McKenzie and Ohara. People dont appreciate McKenzie enough around here.
But I dont think that strategy will work again. They were very fortunate. It didnt work with Baas, he sucked. They didnt sign anyone anywhere near the caliber of McKenzie either, they gave him a shit load of money.
Fixing positions that are a train wreck pretty much through free agency is a mistake. You need to fix the position long term through the draft.
I do know that they have ignored the position in the draft for way too long and it has blown up in their face finally. And their solution to fix it seems to be mostly through free agency, which I think is a big mistake
What now then? Did you want us to take a Guard? We have a nice blend there too and at least one position nailed down with Schwartz. As for the other G position? No, Steve Hutchinson won't be manning that. But maybe, just maybe, the Giants expect the battle between Snee, Mosley, Jerry, Brewer and Hermann -- all but one in their 20's -- to net at least one starter.
I'm surprised that a person so focused on the draft such as yourself believes everyone of these young guys, all entering pivotal years, are somehow destined to fail. I doubt that. And if you don't have a solution other than "we should've drafted someone in the middle rounds, who I don't know but still" then chill out and trust in the ones paid to do that, the ones who have brought you only one losing season in God knows how long and two nights of ecstacy, do their jobs.
I am pretty sure you mentioned above that any OL may not have helped the team this year, but with Eli closer to the end than the beginning the Giants are still in win now mode and as pathetic as we were on O last year we still managed to win 7 games.
Through the Draft and FA the team has improved over what we had on the field last year due to injury and/or ineffectiveness. Did the moves improve us enough to win 3-4 more games and get us in the playoffs? we will have to wait and see.
You hit the nail on the head.
Here's a guy who had one strong year-- his walk year -- then signs a fat juicy contract, and then comes in and plays like a street FA.
Put on the fucking tape of the Carolina game if you have any doubt.
Now... our 2nd Round selection was huge because we not only sucked at LT, but we sucked up the middle. And it says here this guy comes in and starts real soon at Center!
What I can't understand is why any idiot poster on this thread would mention Brewer in the mix for anything except a guy with size who sucks.
And as for the 3 vets we brought in... that ain't no way to build a future offensive line. It's a stop-gap measure to shore up the interior that includes a semi-retired Chris Snee.
We've got Pugh, we've got Schwartz, we've got a promising shiny new Center, we hopefully got a developing Moseley... and after that we've got a lot of hopes that everything pans out, because if it doesn't we are looking at 5-6 wins.
Eric's wife is a lot smarter than some if the posters on this thread.
Do you know why?
Because the former Jet developed into a top flight RT who was heavily sought after by many teams in free agency, and who solidified the RT position for us for a good 7 years!
It doesn't mean anything to say we didn't draft him. When we signed him, he was playing like a very high draft pick, and he gave us several good years in which he played like a first rounder.
Schwartz replaces Boothe
Walton/Richburg replace Baas/Cordle
Snee replaces Dehil
Jerry replaces Reynolds
Brown replaces Brewer
They brought in 4 FA OL who have NFL game experience and still young and talented. Brown was a 2nd pick and Jerry was a 3rd - they have ability and their depth is much better
I really do not know if you find guys from the 3rd round on as good
2) The giants believe on the roster they have talent,if they only drafted 1 player, they may already moved up some of the players on the roster
3) in the offseason Snee took a few of the OL under his watch, lifting with Herman and Snee and developing their bodies and some cohesion.
4) Flaherty is still the OL coach.
5). Watch the preseason. Last year our 2nd unit was worse then other teams third unit and it wasn't close.
6) This is mst likely Snee's final season. The NYG look a year ahead Snee's replacement is already on the roster. I think it is Mosley and I honestly believe the NYG really, really like Mosley. And in a very limited span of PT end of the year he looked ready. I think Mosley is going to chchallenge to start.
7) Usually NYG Let drafted players play out there contract. brewer is going to really be challenged to make the team, and that is a good thing
So Eric, your wife is very smart.
No shit we aren't NFL executives. This is a fan site, last time I checked. We share opinions. Apparently that's not allowed anymore because we don't actually work for an NFL team? During game days, are we no longer allowed to question play calls because we don't coach for a living? Should Eric shut down the forum all together?
Or better yet, if someone has an opinion you don't agree with, how about address it instead of blasting someone's opinion as invalid because they don't "do this sort of stuff for a living."
"What does it matter if they're good at bowling?"
The oline last year was the worst I've ever seen. Worse than in the 70's and it wasn't just last year. In our SB year, the oline was awful the first part of the year, but put it together for the end and the playoffs. Since then a disaster. It's been years since we've seen quality oline play. Just because once upon a time the Giants put together a monster line out of cast offs doesn't mean it's easy to do. We've been trying to rebuild it like that and failing for years now.
The only ones I have more faith than question marks are Pugh, and Schwartz. Richburg has great potential and I love the pick even though i wanted him at 3. the truth is good oline go before they're projected or where their projected, they rarely drop. Moses was the only one I saw drop and I wasn't high on him, so in my mind it wasn't a drop.
Some here have more confidence in journeymen olinemen than our WR's who would have all looked better last year if our oline could give Eli more than a second and a half.
In the end i'm a Giants fan so I love the draft now, I'm penciling them all into Canton as we speak. I need more Kool-Aid before I'm confident in the oline.
I think fans still have shell shock from the Carolina game. That was an extreme utter disaster, but every game was not like that as fans want to believe.
I saw many, many times when Eli was given time to throw and either WRs did not get open, or he threw a bad pass. There were major issues across the board last year and they were not all on the oline.
Eli was sacked the 11th most in the league last year and tied with a few other guys like Colin Kaeopernick. Bad, but no more than many other notible QBs. Even more telling is pressures. I don't know what the ranking was for that but they showed a statistic at the draft which included the top 6 and in that list was Matt Ryan, Flacco, Russel Wilson and three others, but no Eli.
The line was very bad last year, but protection was far from the only problem. As for run blocking, I'm not sure in this offense it is as big an issue. The running game will be different and not as significant a factor in the offenses success.
The line is still an issue, but I am going to reserve my judgement before dismissing the offense completely just because they didn't overhaul the line. The can still improve without complete overhaul and there are other areas they had better get better at as well.
The oline last year was the worst I've ever seen. Worse than in the 70's and it wasn't just last year. In our SB year, the oline was awful the first part of the year, but put it together for the end and the playoffs. Since then a disaster. It's been years since we've seen quality oline play. Just because once upon a time the Giants put together a monster line out of cast offs doesn't mean it's easy to do. We've been trying to rebuild it like that and failing for years now.
The only ones I have more faith than question marks are Pugh, and Schwartz. Richburg has great potential and I love the pick even though i wanted him at 3. the truth is good oline go before they're projected or where their projected, they rarely drop. Moses was the only one I saw drop and I wasn't high on him, so in my mind it wasn't a drop.
Some here have more confidence in journeymen olinemen than our WR's who would have all looked better last year if our oline could give Eli more than a second and a half.
In the end i'm a Giants fan so I love the draft now, I'm penciling them all into Canton as we speak. I need more Kool-Aid before I'm confident in the oline.
I agree with you. the O-line will be fine crowd was saying the same thing before the last two seasons also. They also say things like... they need time to gel. I hope that this "gelling" means they actually build some real strength to keep themselves from getting pushed back right into Eli on every play.
Richburg is a nice add, but no other way to say it, the Giants did the bare-minimum to address the O-line in this draft.
If Snee, Beatty and Walton don't give this team considerable (and quality) snaps this season, we could easily be looking at 2013.V2
It'll be better this year. How much better? That remains to be seen.
Guys who we hope can play with some level of ability: Beatty, Richburg, Walton
Guys who are backups at best: Snee, Mosley, Brown
Guys who will be out of the league very soon: Jerry, Hermann, Brewer, Kropog, Goodin, etc.
Here's another issue. They talk about playing Schwartz at LG. He's not a LG. He's a RG. Play him at RG ( and don't tell me Snee is going to play RG. he is done as a starter). Play Richburg at LG IF Walton can play.
Finally, I think Beckham is going to be a very good player. But I would have taken Martin and Richburg. With those two we are on the way to having a strong OL. Everything starts with the OL! Islander 1 was right.
PFF, based on their pressure data, had them 31st, only ahead of Arizona in pass protection.
Here's another issue. They talk about playing Schwartz at LG. He's not a LG. He's a RG. Play him at RG ( and don't tell me Snee is going to play RG. he is done as a starter). Play Richburg at LG IF Walton can play.
I absolutely agree that Schwartz should be playing his best position (RG), but it's not going to happen unless Snee can't drag himself onto the field (which is a possibility to be fair).
The minute Snee took a paycut instead of being cut, he was locked in as a starter on this team, at "his" position, no matter who has to be shuffled or how awful he's likely to be.
Team has been a playoff contender for most of a decade and a two time champion , and at the first sign of restructuring, you can't lose faith in the process and the IQ of the people who put it together.
This
Imo...I thought taking C instead
Of OT in 2 was mistake..we
Had 2 or 3 good guys at ot
To pick. C in 3 would be
A good pick.Beatty sucks
When healthy and he wont be.
Biggest need...and 9 ufa pic
ks no O line guys..your wife
Was on the money. .
You are describing a select few belligerent a-holes on this site.
BBI would be a lot better off without them.
It always comes down to their blabbering about having "faith"... but the bizzaro thing is that these self-same posters are also quite belligerent.
Translation: they are just plain angry... but they're faithfully angry.
Swartz g and c were
Better...I have concern
With oline coaching..
With macs system lets
See how hd does...snee
Said everything is new.
I really hope health of line becomes a main issue this year again.
I say he isnt runner..she says if
Vick got beat up w good oline.. what
Will happen to eli with worse line
And bad leg..
...you make several valid points.
Reese Zoe. A shit load of the the D and went bargain basement hunting again for the OL. Maybe the new a scheme hides the deficiencies that are pretty obvious but until play on the filed shows otherwise people assuming the OL will be Much better are being beyond gracious to Reese given his history.
no OT beyond the first was starting....I will also add...I bet even then the best they could have hoped for was RT with Pugh moving over to left.....
they signed C.Brown and Beatty will be ready.....
we will have 3 new interior linemen, which will help Beatty and Pugh....just the fact that Diehl, the human turnstile, is no longer... will help them
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So why is anyone's opinion valid at this point in relation to the people who do this sort of stuff for a living? Let it play out.
No shit we aren't NFL executives. This is a fan site, last time I checked. We share opinions. Apparently that's not allowed anymore because we don't actually work for an NFL team? During game days, are we no longer allowed to question play calls because we don't coach for a living? Should Eric shut down the forum all together?
Or better yet, if someone has an opinion you don't agree with, how about address it instead of blasting someone's opinion as invalid because they don't "do this sort of stuff for a living."
There is clearly some space in-between drafting Blue-chippers and Projects that the Giants choose not to pursue very often.
Not sure if I heard this correctly, but I believe the Giants may have had one of the "most expensive O-lines" in the entire NFL last season.
For one thing I think Eli will be taking a lot more 3-5 step drops this year, and that will help with the pressures on him.
Second, the injuries we had last year led us to play guys out of position. Brewer should never have been allowed to play OG. He is if anything a RT (although I think he'd be a failure there too). But he sure doesn't have the mobility to play OG. This year we'll at least have starters and backups playing the positions they play best. Jerry and Mosley are OGs, Brown an OT, Richburg and Walton Centers, etc. Screw the versatility philosophy with guys who AREN'T versatile. It's one thing to have Pugh and Boothe (or Zach Martin) who can ACTUALLY play several positions competently. It's another to try to get away with playing someone like Brewer at a position he shouldn't be playing in the Arena League.
Last, we have to hope that guys like Jerry and Brown will have the motivation to rise to the occasion on their one year contracts. A considerable question mark, but that's all I got in that regard.
we brought on 5 free agents, but only 1 i have any faith in.
i don't believe snee bounces back. he's done.
and beatty returning to form is conjecture. he's had 1 good year. he was terrible last year.
at some point we have to bring in guys we think will be together for 5-7 years. i think we have 2 of them, maybe 3. so we're still lacking a couple.
who should we have picked? i seriously would have picked a G in round 1 or traded up 1 spot for Lewan.
i dont' give the FO the benefit of the doubt on the OLine for one simple reason: the difference between expectations last year (superbowl clock in the locker room) and what they put on the field was a huge gap. delusional.
Richburg learns the oline calls right away and turns into a rare weapon because of his pulling ability. He's a madman making blocks everywhere. It takes a few games, but by the second half it's clear he's a football player.
Schwartz and Pugh are what we think they are.
Another guard emerges from the rabble.
Beatty improves just because the guys next to him are better.
SB baby!!!!!!!!
2ndroundKO : 1:11 am : link : reply
o-linemen. 15 overall. We've addressed the position. Pray tell, who should the Giants have gotten?
Quantity does not equal quanlity....
It's obvious, the Giants are playing for now and not the future.....
As far as the OL goes, it looks like they are counting on Beatty at LT, Schwartz at LG(better than what we previously had, but nothing special), a merry go round of centers, unfortunately it's looking like they are hoping Snee can play, and Pugh....Brown and Jerry? Sounds like ice cream...tastes good but not good for you....not exactly addressing the positions of the line....looks more like plugging than sealing....looking like Davis may be the blocking TE.....
The other question is, how will this line assimilate into this new offense?
The offense is definitely helped by Beckham, if he is a fast learner and becomes the starter Nicks once was....With Brown gone, Wilson in question, Cox a disappointment, Williams could become a big part of this offense.....only thing is, having a RB in a WCO that can't catch? Question is, did they not throw to him because he couldn't catch, or it wasn't part of the play calling?
If Beckham has growing pains, this draft will not have an impact on this season.....there will be a lot of pressure on him to produce.....we have to start hitting on players who produce after the first round.....in the last 5 drafts, we only have LJ to show for it....
joecabbie points out what i think is the BEST case scenario.
the line could also be helped by the new offense.
i don't think our new R will be catching passes. i'm not a fan of personnel packages that hint at the plays that might be called but other than that I think he's a winner.
Last year, we lost Brown, then Wilson, and had to depend on a guy off the street (Hillis), who was not in football shape. Teams knew we had no running game, and took advantage by dialing up the pass rush.
Now, we have Rashad Jennings, we have the new guy, Williams. Even if Wilson does not come back, that gives us a legit threat at the RB position. Teams can't just go wild pass rushing, especially when McAdoo installs a legitimate screen package (something we've been missing for years).
I think our Line is better, with the draft and FA. I think it will be significantly better this year, with real threats at RB, a new system, and more 3 step drops.
We won't know until they play for real, but I wouldn't be down right now. I think we're on year one of a two year reload, ready to compete for the playoffs this year.
2ndroundKO : 1:11 am : link : reply
o-linemen. 15 overall. We've addressed the position. Pray tell, who should the Giants have gotten?
Quantity does not equal quanlity....
It's obvious, the Giants are playing for now and not the future.....
As far as the OL goes, it looks like they are counting on Beatty at LT, Schwartz at LG(better than what we previously had, but nothing special), a merry go round of centers, unfortunately it's looking like they are hoping Snee can play, and Pugh....Brown and Jerry? Sounds like ice cream...tastes good but not good for you....not exactly addressing the positions of the line....looks more like plugging than sealing....looking like Davis may be the blocking TE.....
The other question is, how will this line assimilate into this new offense?
The offense is definitely helped by Beckham, if he is a fast learner and becomes the starter Nicks once was....With Brown gone, Wilson in question, Cox a disappointment, Williams could become a big part of this offense.....only thing is, having a RB in a WCO that can't catch? Question is, did they not throw to him because he couldn't catch, or it wasn't part of the play calling?
If Beckham has growing pains, this draft will not have an impact on this season.....there will be a lot of pressure on him to produce.....we have to start hitting on players who produce after the first round.....in the last 5 drafts, we only have LJ to show for it....
Yeah, they're expecting Beatty to bounce back. Same with Eli. Same with JPP. Imagine that.
At RT we're set. Same with C where Richburg or Walton will man the middle. Schwartz is a solid G. And plenty of competition at the other G spot. Much ado about nothing.
Our running backs were constantly getting nailed in the grill before they even got to the LOS.
It was like watching the lousy Giants of the 70s. There was no movement by our O-line, and with defensive linemen and LBs streaming in, our running backs took fearful shots before they ever got their motor in gear.
Combine that with lousy pass blocking and Eli throwing like a street FA (not to mention Nicks dogging it) and it all added up to a very ugly offense.
I've said it before... I'll say it again. Jerry Reese is either going to fix this offensive line, or he will need to find employment somewhere else.
We'll just have to wait and see if his FAs and new Center and a return to general health rights a listing O-line.
They also signed Brown who could serve as depth and possibly start in a pinch.
The only player who looked good last year was Pugh - you aren't going to address 5-8 Line spots in one year. They brought in Schwartz, Walton, Jerry, Brown and Westburg. That's five guys who can help us At least 4 who have started in the league.
The new O will also help us, quicker tempo getting rid of the ball quicker - look what that did for San Diego.
Walton can also play guard - if you think that Pugh, Schwartz, Westburg, Walton or Jerry is not a big upgrade over what we fielded last year - I don't know what to tell you, except I'm fairly confident that you're wrong.
Walton can also play guard - if you think that Pugh, Schwartz, Westburg, Walton or Jerry is not a big upgrade over what we fielded last year - I don't know what to tell you, except I'm fairly confident that you're wrong.
They can be big upgrades and we can still have a weak oline. The line was that bad last year. Depth is still a concern.
Jerry has played like crap since he broke into the NFL and done so entirely independent of his being an asshole.
I'd argue it's the people blinded when it comes to him (and Brown) are more the ones who are permanently in white knight/Pollyanna mode when it comes to almost every aspect of the team.
Mike Pope,Tight Ends coach,was let go and all we did was add Kellen Davis.Now Reese supposedly came out and said we need to develop some guys.
Gilbride was retired.He was quick to tell you the issues with offensive line.But we acted like Gilbride was the main problem when it came to fixing it.Not a whole lot was done,regardless of what the All Is Well crowd says.
Exactly. The other positions are fine IMO. I'm much more concerned about Eli and our pass rush.
I'm pretty sure that I read something from Giants front office (I think it was Reese) in which they said Richburg is a pure C and not a consideration for any other OL position...
Forget about the Will Beatty injury (which is bad enough)-- this guy came into camp last season a very wealthy man and he played like he was thinking about post retirement plans.
THAT is a huge F-ing red flag.
Now, I am pinning my hope on the fact that he did have some games that he play decently in... and I'm only asking for "decent" play from this guy...
...but holy moly, if the start of last season was just a harbinger of things to come, well -- then -- our left flank will be turned and burned.
We'll just have to wait and see. But keep your eyes ESPECIALLY on this guy.
Richburg they made sure to get. It's felt like a reach. I don't think he'd have lasted to us in the third, they had to take him if they wanted him, and I think they really did. They described his skill set as matching their new system. They like that he can pull. They like that he can make the line calls. It may be that what our line really needs is a leader that gets everyone on the same page out on the field, and they way he's been talked about, he's that guy. Chemistry is a fickle thing. We may only need one player, but the right player.
It's kind of like on D where we suck without a mlb that gets everyone on the right page.
Lets hope for the best and pray that James Brewer doesn't get into the game...
Forget about the Will Beatty injury (which is bad enough)-- this guy came into camp last season a very wealthy man and he played like he was thinking about post retirement plans.
THAT is a huge F-ing red flag.
Now, I am pinning my hope on the fact that he did have some games that he play decently in... and I'm only asking for "decent" play from this guy...
...but holy moly, if the start of last season was just a harbinger of things to come, well -- then -- our left flank will be turned and burned.
We'll just have to wait and see. But keep your eyes ESPECIALLY on this guy.
It is a concern but who played well last year? Not like Beatty was the only one. He just happened to be the one who had signed a big contract.
Beatty was solid in 2011 until a freak eye injury then even better in 2012. There's a reason to be concerned but also reason for optimism. And we'll see how things play out during camp and the pre-season. Wouldn't surprise me if we added another vet tackle before week one.
If Coach Flaherty didn't think there was talent there, no way the Giants bring on a controversial player like Jerry. That's what coaches are for, make the most of a player's talent.
No one can call a draft. That is part of its allure. Sure the Giants would love to have a new-age tight-end 6'7" with 4.6 speed who can block and at least one tall receiver to serve as red zone targets. That guy was not available on their board when they picked. This time around they obviously placed emphasis on character and team concept. We needed a center because Walton is unsure.... Good pick. We needed a top-notch receiver...got him. I like their picks down the line on the basis of what they do on the field and contribute to team chemistry. We will likely get an O-lineman or two during cut-downs for depth if needed. We are OK. If we come up short, we will have a chance next year to fill in the blanks.
I know I shouldn't expect anything from a guy who thought Brandon Myers played well here and that Reese should have been championed for signing him, but even you should be able to detach your mouth from the FO's/coaching staff's balls enough to not try to nonsensically claim people only think he sucks because he's an asshole. He sucks because he's sucked; his being an asshole is just a bonus.
Not to mention that if he added a top tier OT it would be admitting he screwed up on Beatty. He wouldn't be the first GM to not want to admit he's made a mistake. And he won't be the last.
FIGHTTTTTTTTTTTT
What's that like?