Orr: Giants feel Will Hill can win his appeal.

That would be phenomenal news if he wins his appeal.

as the lull of the post-draft offseason continues, Will Hill's status with the team is my main concern. I believe our secondary has a chance to be something special. I hope this situation somehow works out.

if he wins his appeal

doesn't make sense to me. If the Giants feel his grounds for appeal are enough that he could win his appeal (and thus why he hasn't been released yet) why would they release him if he loses? If the Giants feel his "reason" is just why would it matter if the league rules otherwise? Salary reasons?

and if Will Hill gets his shit together, he better give a massive discount come contract time. We've put up with a ridiculous amount with him.

I fully expect him to go to the highest bidder though...

In comment 11697750 DanMetroMan said:

Quote:

doesn't make sense to me. If the Giants feel his grounds for appeal are enough that he could win his appeal (and thus why he hasn't been released yet) why would they release him if he loses? If the Giants feel his "reason" is just why would it matter if the league rules otherwise? Salary reasons?

I wouldn't get to worked up about how a random guy on twitter phrased his question

I think its pretty clear that if he wins the appeal the team will keep him around for the time being

but there has been little risk involved.

He has never been given any guaranteed money as far as I can tell.

I'd continue to go short-term incentive-laden deals with him.

The biggest problem is he's unreliable so they need a good backup plan for when he's found trouble again.

two reasons

1) he will be suspended for a full year, tough to hang onto him for that long (not that I personally would be opposed to it as it doesn't really take any team resources)

2) if he looses his appeal its quite possible he was lying about his excuse

what I meant was his answer

"They do, which is why he hasn't been released yet"

Why should it matter if he wins his appeal IF the Giants feel his argument is just? The Giants being fed up with him shouldn't relate to how the league rules. If his argument is enough that the Giants are sticking with him for now, why would the league ruling against him matter?

enough. Thanks

the better chance of Hill sticking.

It makes little sense to go through a full-offseason, OTA's, mini-camp with Hill entrenched as your starting safety to then release him. That wouldn't have a good effect on-field chemistry.

In comment 11697778 Brandon Walsh said:

Quote:

the better chance of Hill sticking. It makes little sense to go through a full-offseason, OTA's, mini-camp with Hill entrenched as your starting safety to then release him. That wouldn't have a good effect on-field chemistry.

I don't think this is true. I think they are just waiting for the league to rule and then make their decision based off of that.

And I bet Brown is entrenched as the starter opposite Rolle

one thing fans need to keep in mind - if I am not mistaken - Hill's first suspension was the result of a failed drug test BEFORE the Giants signed him. They knew he had failed that test.

In comment 11697788 Eric from BBI said:

Quote:

one thing fans need to keep in mind - if I am not mistaken - Hill's first suspension was the result of a failed drug test BEFORE the Giants signed him. They knew he had failed that test.

how does that changes anything?

harm in waiting, but I'd only keep him if we were really hit by injuries at that position.

It's always something with Hill. And each time he says it won't happen again. Until it does. His talent is no good to us on the bench. And he is too much of a distraction, especially on a team with a lot of new faces on both sides of the ball. He's already been given a lot of chances. Absent injuries, his time should be up IMO.

It's just that he's not available or reliable.

Even when he's not getting in trouble, as a fan, you're just waiting to wake up one morning, hit BBI and read that he was busted overnight for something, or he failed yet another drug screening.

to happen very often...does it?

Hope Mr. Hill bucks whatever those odds are.

In comment 11697788 Eric from BBI said:

Quote:

one thing fans need to keep in mind - if I am not mistaken - Hill's first suspension was the result of a failed drug test BEFORE the Giants signed him. They knew he had failed that test.

When would he have failed a drug test before the Giants signed him? Wasn't he in the arena league?

It would mean that if Hill wins this appeal, he has only "messed up" once since being with the Giants. The one before he signed with the team was for Adderall.

he was with the Redskins too.

In comment 11697812 Eric from BBI said:

Quote:

It would mean that if Hill wins this appeal, he has only "messed up" once since being with the Giants. The one before he signed with the team was for Adderall.

you actually have to fail drug tests a number of times before you get suspended.

This is probably his 5th or 6th failed drug test

I could be wrong about that first test. It might have been with the Giants. But I could have sworn I read something at the time that the team knew about it. I'll see if I can find in the archives.

No, you get suspended for second failed drug test.

In comment 11697788 Eric from BBI said:

Quote:

one thing fans need to keep in mind - if I am not mistaken - Hill's first suspension was the result of a failed drug test BEFORE the Giants signed him. They knew he had failed that test.

And his second was for pot. Lets not pretend like this guy is Aaron Hernandez. It's not a performance enhancer and is legal for recreational and/or medical use in many states. It's no worse than booze -- where would the outrage level be if the NFL said players couldnt have a drink during the offseason? Total BS.

from News and Notes (July 2013)

Will Hill Admits He Failed Drug Test for Marijuana: Safety Will Hill told the press on Sunday that he has failed multiple drug tests for marijauna last season. As previously reported, Hill has been suspended for the first four games of the 2013 regular season due to violating the NFL’s policy on substance abuse. Hill appealed the suspension, but the appeal was rejected.

Hill was also suspended for the first four games of the 2012 regular season for using Adderall, violating the NFL’s policy on performance-enhancing substances.

“Just going through a lot of stressful times through last season, and I failed a lot of drug tests,” said Hill. “It carried over to this season. Just trying to fight it and obviously the league made the decision for this season.”

“I had a lot of stress from my environment,” said Hill. “(Drugs were) the only way I knew how to cope with it until I got with the team. They put me in some clinic and that helped me out…We were trying to fight (the suspension), basically. The team stepped in and tried to do the best they could so this would not happen, but ultimately the league made the decision.”

“The Giants helped me the best way they could,” said Hill. “They got me help and helped me see other ways to cope with my problems…The Giants helped me out a lot. I wasn’t here for the spring practices and stuff. I was in Boston at this clinic and they were giving me help there and I’ve been going to an outpatient (facility) in Parsippany, (New Jersey).”

“We were disappointed and hopefully Will is going to get his life straightened out,” said Head Coach Tom Coughlin.
Will Hill Admits He Failed Drug Test for Marijuana - ( New Window )

is the earliest you can receive a suspension



The first positive test for a "substance of abuse" results in the player formally entering an enhanced testing/treatment program, where the player is tested more frequently.

A second positive test results in the player entering the "stages of intervention" outlined in the policy. "Stage 1" is the first stage in the policy and includes the player being referred to a "Regional Team" for his treatment. In Stage 1, the player can be tested as many times as the league's "Medical Director" desires to "adequately evaluate the player."

A positive test while in Stage 1 can result in a fine equal to three weeks of a player's pay and results in entrance to Stage 2.

A player remains under Stage 1 guidelines for 90 days, but the league's Medical Director can extend that time up to six months.

In Stage 2, players are subject to unannounced testing up to 10 times a month. A positive test while in Stage 2 or failure to comply with the treatment program results in a fine equal to four game checks and a four-game suspension.
Link - ( New Window )

He is in the drug program. He was already in stage two based on his 4 game suspension and public acknowledgment that he was in the program. Testing positive is not the only factor when in the program, behavior is now subject to review.

And for perspective, Josh Gordon is participating in OTAs and he is believed to be in stage 3 which carries a ban and requirement for reinstatement.

I always thought it was two, not three.

.

...

Why is there so much confusion/lack of information regarding what Hill is facing?

Is it not a huge, necessary distinction? Whether or not a potential star/key player is facing either a 6-8 game suspension or a full-season suspension?

Perhaps I've missed it, but has there been a definitive punishment set for Hill should his appeal fail?

Were a much, much better d with him back there. Hope he wins and puts the past behind him

we don't know what he supposed is in trouble for this time...
Will Hill Fails Drug Test Again and Giants May Cut Ties - ( New Window )

I don't believe any details on the nature of his violation have been made public.

I don't think the punishment has been definitively stated.
It is annoying

...here that he's guilty. It may well be, the odds favor it, if slightly, but I'm giving him the benefit of the doubt until the ruling is made.

I most certainly don't regard the league's punishment mechanisms to be untarnished. Like some legal situations, you can be as pure as the driven snow and found guilty because someone has a hard-on for you. I'm not saying that's the case here, but there are very few players that win appeals, and that seems like a skewed statistic.

When the Hill story first broke, and the consensus among the beatwriters was that Hill was as good as gone?

In comment 11697814 Eric from BBI said:

Quote:

he was with the Redskins too.

Is that true? I can't find any evidence they ever signed Will Hill.

It's not in his stats pages, wikipedia, and only article I found about it refutes it.

I am sure your information is better than mine, LOL since my "research" means google searching.

Hill being on the field is a major strength to the D. he is like a LB and Safety.

In comment 11697859 Sneakers O'toole said:

Quote:

I don't believe any details on the nature of his violation have been made public.

They won't be, at least not officially. It's protected information by the CBA. The league won't disclose it. They only categorize it as performance-enhancing substance or other substance.

considering what the league lets the players do with the pharmaceuticals available to team physicians.

Yes, I know. I'm just saying, nothing has come out about it.

I would not release him even if he loses the appeal. As mentioned above, he makes very little money and is one of the best, if not the best, safety on the team. When you factor in his cap value, he's one of the best players in the league. But, that aside, the country is moving fairly quickly to legalization, or just decriminalization, of marijuana use. It would be a shame to release him this season and find out next season that the league will stop testing for recreational use and focus exclusively on performance enhancing or dangerous drugs. It's easy for people who have never lived in the shoes of a player with Hill's background to criticize and I'm not defending his lack of judgement but truthfully, does it make a real difference in the real world whether he smokes a joint or has a few drinks to deal with he stress in his life. I hope he wins his appeal but even if he doesn't, I would not want to see him released.

iam

To win an appeal in stage two. Winning an appeal in stage one is rare but happens.

Ok Will,you were on thin ice,now your on...thinner ice!


Yeah,yeah,In Reese We Blaze

In 2015 will he remain in the last year of his UDFA contract or will he be a RFA?

Anyone know what happened to contracts of players suspended for a full year?

PED and another for recreational street drugs like weed. He has one suspension for each under his belt right now. We dont' know which one he is supposedly in violation of currently yet.

there were conflicting reports as to whether Will Hill was ever signed as UFA by the Skins. He may have been a tryout player...
http://www.alligatorarmy.com/2011/7/25/2293953/washington-redskins-sign-will-hill - ( New Window )

In comment 11697915 Sneakers O'toole said:

Quote:

PED and another for recreational street drugs like weed. He has one suspension for each under his belt right now. We dont' know which one he is supposedly in violation of currently yet.

His arrest in December where weed was allegedly found in his car would be a stage two violation.