major improvment over last year. I would like to see Ayers back as a rotational guy and hope that Odi can turn things on in year 2, ala Strahan who did nothing his rookie season and neither did Tuck.
and realize the Giants aren't going to sign 3 guys and then find people on the couch to fill in rest of the roster. We have money to play with- I suspect the comment on DRC's cointract being big could mean a restructuring could happen, Cruz will get a new deal and we still have plenty of room for mid level guys needed to make a roster whole...
Plus, the draft is coming up and the Gmen would be in prime shape to trade down and get extra picks.
said before I thought Reese would turn into Dan Snyder. These are at least ascending players, not aging veterans. But this is a ton of money for Jenkins and Vernon, and would not have been necessary with better drafting and FA signings.
JPP and Vernon on the edge, Hankins and Snacks up the middle. DRC and JJ over the top. LC in the box brining the pain. Our usual JAGs at LB. Fuck yeah. All of the sudden, this is a defense.
Vernon, finished last season with 61 tackles, 7.5 sacks, and a league-high 41 quarterback hurries. Vernon, who turns 26 in October, also led all 4-3 defensive ends in quarterback hits with 30.
But you have to understand this is the player the front office wanted.
And they made sure they got him-
So if you trust the front office - this is their guy
This offseason has gone as planned for them- execution wise it's been impeccable
Seek target- acquire target
these defensive signings have to increase the chance for an offensive pick at #10.
Or an LB
They're not taking a LB at 10. People need to let that dream go.
If they sign a OL, I wonder if Treadwell becomes a possibility though.
Treadwell could be the pick...top WR on the board, profiles similarly to AJ Green, comes from Ole Miss so Eli will push for him, and seems to have recovered remarkably from that gruesome leg break against Auburn
and which won't, but they are going for it and giving it their best shot. Can truly go BPA at #10 now and can also lay back for some bargains now. Would love to nab Weddle to bring an experienced voice to the defense. Maybe even Derrick Johnson? Would depend entirely on the prices but talent wise they have made a HUGE upgrade today across the defense.
Unlike prior years - when Giants were cap strapped - they have money to spend this year. It is smart to pay at least one of these guys now so the Giants have some flexibility later. Vernon seems to be that guy. Hopefully they will remain comfortably under the cap next year when it comes time to resign some other guys. Remember, Hankins and JPP are FAs next year.
1. Which DL will get draw two blockers opposing offenses? JPP, Hankins, Snacks, or Vernon?
I think this question explains a lot of the thinking behind signing Vernon and Snacks. It will take the pressure off of JPP, which should allow him a little more wiggle room.
It's a formidable line if everyone is healthy and productive.
Giants signed RE Olivier Vernon, formerly of the Dolphins, to a five-year, $85 million contract.
The deal includes $40 million fully guaranteed and is a record-setting contract. The Giants came into the offseason needing to do something about their woeful pass rush. And they've done just that by first re-signing LE Jason Pierre-Paul and now going out and landing probably the biggest fish on the board in Vernon. Vernon was Pro Football Focus' No. 1 overall 4-3 end last season, recording 81 combined sacks, hits, and hurries, while also playing elite run defense. By adding Vernon and DT Damon Harrison on Wednesday, the Giants greatly boosted their defense.
Source: Mike Garafolo on Twitter
Mar 9 - 4:58 PM
Thinking the same. Basically gave Vernon his contract if hadn't blown up his hand. JPP has to wonder, if he has a good year with his prove it deal, can NYG actually resign him. Hope the chemistry works out okay.
The defensive line was a big reason why we lost most games. You have to be able to stop the other team from being able to run out the clock and you have to be able to rush the passer when they are in the 2 minute offense. Also, I'm happy we're spending money on starters than part time players.
with the arrow pointed upward. Only 25. There are guys coming out of college that are almost that age. Apparently, they had incredibly strong belief in this kid - to the point that even if he was still transitioned they were going after him.
When you see his highlights, you see the body lean that is characteristics of the quality 4-3 DEs.
The Giants seem to have achieved what they wanted to do on the first day.
of the Eagles dream team fiasco and Washington's perennial underachievement from their FA's but you don't get anywhere in the NFL without talent and NYG just upgraded its talent level in a big way.
of the Eagles dream team fiasco and Washington's perennial underachievement from their FA's but you don't get anywhere in the NFL without talent and NYG just upgraded its talent level in a big way.
You might as well spend big when you look at how much time Eli has left
He making close to what Watt is making. He will make more than Wilkerson will get and he is a far superior player.
What does Vernon do so well to warrant this
Players are not paid based on a direct stat comparison. It doesn't work that way. It's about what the open market thinks they are worth. 25 year old pass rushers that light up the advanced stats and have 30 sacks in four years get paid.
Technique when he's at LDE, it's almost how you draw it up. Shoulders square, then at 45 when he sees he's the last man on the line and he stays square in that spot to pin down the edge. He doesn't get top heavy or over extend either, keeping his hands above his feet and able to keep generating power when a blocker gets into him. He disengages quickly and keeps his feet wide and moving the whole time, it's football nerd stuff but it's very very exciting to a nerd like me.
and squarely on Spags!
I don't think this impacts probability of a high round DL/DE in the draft because this was JPP's "show me" year. If he performs super, say goodbye 'cause the NYG can't afford 4 top contracts next year on the DL.
and squarely on Spags!
I don't think this impacts probability of a high round DL/DE in the draft because this was JPP's "show me" year. If he performs super, say goodbye 'cause the NYG can't afford 4 top contracts next year on the DL.
Why? There is no guarantee that Vernon is going to be anywhere near as good as his contract numbers. He is a B- talent that we bought in exchange for A+ money.
and squarely on Spags!
I don't think this impacts probability of a high round DL/DE in the draft because this was JPP's "show me" year. If he performs super, say goodbye 'cause the NYG can't afford 4 top contracts next year on the DL.
Why? There is no guarantee that Vernon is going to be anywhere near as good as his contract numbers. He is a B- talent that we bought in exchange for A+ money.
Agreed. There is still a ton of work to be done including depth.
with the cap increase AND everyone having money to spend salaries for the premium free agents were going to be ridiculous. People saying "B level talent getting A level money" - that's stupid crap. You have to evaluate within the marketplace what players are worth. This guy is a Very good DE who is still young has really good athletic ability and could get much better. Plus he's been durable and healthy. His contract is front loaded and will be reasonable beyond this year. I don't think his signing has ANY bearing on re-signing JPP or Hankins next year. They are simply trying to bring in more talent. They will evaluate next year - next year.
The objective is to get to the draft with BPA a reality. Fill the holes with FA. Reese has said this on more than one occasion. What they've done today is simply be more aggressive for the top guys because they had the money to spend. I really don't think this is in any way a change in philosophy. Now this could all blow up in their face, but roster building is always a crap shoot. They spent the money on younger players who still have upside and can be center pieces for the defense. Bodes well for a significant turnaround.
you go and get the players you want, write the big check and don't worry about it.
Nicely done.
Gene nails..I've never worried about the money because we were usually around or up against the cap..You work towards righting the wrongs by getting rid of dead wood and using that money to improve. You'd like to be flushed with money so that you can make immediate improvements and allow the draft to fall to you..When you have loads of money you spend it and we have so far..Not worried about cap hell with Abrams there
wouldn't he be considered to a younger version of Ayers that can play the run and has way more upside. Besides, he was the target and Reese got his man. only time will tell.
less about the money. The Giants have just a few more years left with a franchise QB. Logic says you gamble a bit to try to win one more SB while you still have a franchise QB.
These are all top free agents. I still don't love it conceptually that a GM on the hot seat is just going to try and spend his way out of it. That's not even to say that a new GM wouldn't have taken a similar path. The Reese aspect/agenda/self preservation makes me a bit uneasy.
Kimberly Jones Verified account
New NYG Olivier Vernon was an elite pass rusher in 2nd half of 2015 season. From Weeks 9-17, he had 29 QB Hits -- most in the NFL.
Yeah I know there's a cap and all that crap but honestly... Who gives a fuck how much these guys make? Seriously? Who gives a fuck? So we overpaid, what ever the hell that means... Half these guys will be walking with a permanent limp waking up in cold sweats from brain trauma -- do we really need to obsess over the overpaid or underpaid aspects of this shit? It's supposed to be an escape and enjoyable.
Yeah I know there's a cap and all that crap but honestly... Who gives a fuck how much these guys make? Seriously? Who gives a fuck? So we overpaid, what ever the hell that means... Half these guys will be walking with a permanent limp waking up in cold sweats from brain trauma -- do we really need to obsess over the overpaid or underpaid aspects of this shit? It's supposed to be an escape and enjoyable.
Plus, we had a historically bad defense last season. That's not even an exaggeration, sadly. You had to know we were going to go wild with a talent infusion on that side of the ball. It's not like we were just your normal run on the mill bad defense. No. We were all time bad. We needed the horses; and now we finally have them again for the first time in quite awhile.
Add onto that, it being Eli's last 5 years or so. It's time to make one last run these next handful of years. Also; the guys we signed are all entering their prime in their mid 20's. It was the right move.
Giants get DE Olivier Vernon, source says. For real.
BIG WEDNESDAY!!!
Olivier Vernon is headed to the Giants, source said
Psyched!
Wow
Dt- Harrison
Dt- Hankins
LDE- JPP
major improvment over last year. I would like to see Ayers back as a rotational guy and hope that Odi can turn things on in year 2, ala Strahan who did nothing his rookie season and neither did Tuck.
Wondering how much money they forked over though
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-
-
-
--
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-
cue complaints about whatever the contract number is!
Not even close.
Hopefully they at least have a pass rush/DL now, after not having one last season.
Following
Ian RapoportVerified account
@RapSheet
Olivier Vernon gets $85M over 5 years WOW with $52.5M in guarantees.
But damn, the line has been addressed in a strong way - good for us, damn the money.
5 years, $85 million, $52.5m guaranteed.
@SI_PeterKing
Olivier Vernon:
5 years, $85 million, $52.5m guaranteed.
Prince -> Jenkins
Ayers -> Vernon
Kuhn -> Snacks
Go ahead and bitch about the price. The Giants HAD to do this. Now they will be a defense.
Still gotta go draft a DE in the first or second.
The f*ckin Jaguars drove it up more on us.
Oh well.
I'm tired of wasting Eli Manning's talent. Time to have a team around him.
This defense got ALOT better today.
Guard and Tackle most pressing.
He better be Bruce Smith or Reggie White level with that contract
Wow!!!!!!!!
If its structured as good as Jenkins, they can Still buy.
I wanted him, but I agree. Even in this market, that's too much for this player.
what's done is done though.
That makes sense based on what I reported this morning.
I was hearing 4 for 60. I'd wager that a lot of it is loaded so it actually becomes closer to a 4 for 60.
Say what you want but this has Martin Mayhew and Kevin Abrams creativity all over it.
Good Job Giants.
Guard and Tackle most pressing.
Now with DL set we could draft the tackle (Stanley) and see how Hart does at guard, which looks like a good spot for him
This guy had better be goddamned good at that price
Plus, the draft is coming up and the Gmen would be in prime shape to trade down and get extra picks.
But we're a LOT better than we were this morning!
From what I've seen of Vernon he is very good but not an all-timer at DE...so he better produce with that kind of contract
Odighizuwa, Bromley in rotation.
DL just became a strength.
2016: $29m.
2017: $12m.
2018: $13m.
First 3 years: $54m.
Most in history for a DE.
Quote:
these defensive signings have to increase the chance for an offensive pick at #10.
Or an LB
They're not taking a LB at 10. People need to let that dream go.
If they sign a OL, I wonder if Treadwell becomes a possibility though.
AND DE STILL GOT DA 10 PIC!
And they made sure they got him-
So if you trust the front office - this is their guy
This offseason has gone as planned for them- execution wise it's been impeccable
Seek target- acquire target
2. How long before we see Vernon in a Subway commercial?
Five years, $85 million for Olivier Vernon with the Giants. The Jaguars were right there, money wise. Giants sold it.
Quote:
In comment 12849456 AcidTest said:
Quote:
these defensive signings have to increase the chance for an offensive pick at #10.
Or an LB
They're not taking a LB at 10. People need to let that dream go.
If they sign a OL, I wonder if Treadwell becomes a possibility though.
Treadwell could be the pick...top WR on the board, profiles similarly to AJ Green, comes from Ole Miss so Eli will push for him, and seems to have recovered remarkably from that gruesome leg break against Auburn
The tag was rescinded. He's a free agent.
They renounced early today.
no they dropped th tag on him..giants got him free and clear..
It's not like the Giants didn't spend money for Tom.
You can't count on a first round rookie DE. They needed help now.
They withdrew the tag
They recinded the offer he's OURS :)
Maybe the Rams. Maybe.
The money here is pretty insane but that's what it took to get it done. Glad we got him.
Funny to look back at all the "Reese is asleep at the wheel/penny pinching" posts from yesterday now....
I think this question explains a lot of the thinking behind signing Vernon and Snacks. It will take the pressure off of JPP, which should allow him a little more wiggle room.
It's a formidable line if everyone is healthy and productive.
Giants signed RE Olivier Vernon, formerly of the Dolphins, to a five-year, $85 million contract.
The deal includes $40 million fully guaranteed and is a record-setting contract. The Giants came into the offseason needing to do something about their woeful pass rush. And they've done just that by first re-signing LE Jason Pierre-Paul and now going out and landing probably the biggest fish on the board in Vernon. Vernon was Pro Football Focus' No. 1 overall 4-3 end last season, recording 81 combined sacks, hits, and hurries, while also playing elite run defense. By adding Vernon and DT Damon Harrison on Wednesday, the Giants greatly boosted their defense.
Source: Mike Garafolo on Twitter
Mar 9 - 4:58 PM
Sorry for the wet blanket.
The money here is pretty insane but that's what it took to get it done. Glad we got him.
Funny to look back at all the "Reese is asleep at the wheel/penny pinching" posts from yesterday now....
One again - people who bitching and moaning BEFORE FREE AGENCY HAD EVEN OFFICIALLY STARTED!
Every year.....lol...
Thinking the same. Basically gave Vernon his contract if hadn't blown up his hand. JPP has to wonder, if he has a good year with his prove it deal, can NYG actually resign him. Hope the chemistry works out okay.
The defensive line was a big reason why we lost most games. You have to be able to stop the other team from being able to run out the clock and you have to be able to rush the passer when they are in the 2 minute offense. Also, I'm happy we're spending money on starters than part time players.
Unfortunately, I think this may spell the end of either Hankins of JPP with NYG after next year but for now I'm very much enjoying this.
Quote:
I would still love to draft a dude like Lawson. Our recent defenses were always at their best when we could send pass rushers in waves.
The money here is pretty insane but that's what it took to get it done. Glad we got him.
Funny to look back at all the "Reese is asleep at the wheel/penny pinching" posts from yesterday now....
One again - people who bitching and moaning BEFORE FREE AGENCY HAD EVEN OFFICIALLY STARTED!
Every year.....lol...
Yep. Never fails.
When you see his highlights, you see the body lean that is characteristics of the quality 4-3 DEs.
The Giants seem to have achieved what they wanted to do on the first day.
Not a fan of this. He simply is not that good.
So now we have an undersized DE going up against 3 LT in the NFC who are better than the all 3 LT in the AFC East.
I am a big Reese backer - but this to me seems like a colossal waste of dollars.
People here incessantly bitched about JPP's year of 12.5 sacks and 77 tackles - Vernon has not come close to that in a year
You now have moved on from JPP regardless of the year he has next year. Just made Vernon the centerpiece of this defense
You might as well spend big when you look at how much time Eli has left
Slade - I never doubted you for a second buddy ... cough, cough, ...
Okay maybe a sec but, not a minute ... cough, cough ....
Alright maybe minute but, it was a NY minute.
34" vertical
Giants coach Ben McAdoo called Vernon within the last hour. Helped finish off the deal.
They need another DE, could sign one and draft one given JPP could be out the door in a year.
Personally, if these guys are players who cares about the contracts. Goal is to build a team, not run a salary cap simulator.
These three signings and bringing back JPP, I like it.
What does Vernon do so well to warrant this
Nicely done.
What does Vernon do so well to warrant this
Players are not paid based on a direct stat comparison. It doesn't work that way. It's about what the open market thinks they are worth. 25 year old pass rushers that light up the advanced stats and have 30 sacks in four years get paid.
2016: $29m.
2017: $12m.
2018: $13m.
First 3 years: $54m.
Most in history for a DE.
JPP has to be kicking himself. Look at the money being thrown around.
What does Vernon do so well to warrant this
JJ Watt would double this deal as a FA.
Giants coach Ben McAdoo called Vernon within the last hour. Helped finish off the deal.
If so McAdoo is much more of a commanding personality than anyone previously thought
I don't think this impacts probability of a high round DL/DE in the draft because this was JPP's "show me" year. If he performs super, say goodbye 'cause the NYG can't afford 4 top contracts next year on the DL.
JJ Watt would double this deal as a FA.
You have to wonder if the absolute wild money being thrown around today leads to more higher end players reaching free agency without resigning
I don't think this impacts probability of a high round DL/DE in the draft because this was JPP's "show me" year. If he performs super, say goodbye 'cause the NYG can't afford 4 top contracts next year on the DL.
Why? There is no guarantee that Vernon is going to be anywhere near as good as his contract numbers. He is a B- talent that we bought in exchange for A+ money.
Quote:
and squarely on Spags!
I don't think this impacts probability of a high round DL/DE in the draft because this was JPP's "show me" year. If he performs super, say goodbye 'cause the NYG can't afford 4 top contracts next year on the DL.
Why? There is no guarantee that Vernon is going to be anywhere near as good as his contract numbers. He is a B- talent that we bought in exchange for A+ money.
Agreed. There is still a ton of work to be done including depth.
They broke the bank for a guy who is not a top 10 player at his position. He is getting almost twice what
They just made him the face of their defense for 6 years -
I will be ecstatic to be wrong on this
You're kidding right ?
Are you always an insufferable ass, or do you just do that on this board?
No. He is getting PAID. We need to spend money elesewhere, like the secondary and LINEBACKER!
Quote:
JJ Watt would double this deal as a FA.
You have to wonder if the absolute wild money being thrown around today leads to more higher end players reaching free agency without resigning
unlikely because most of them are worried about the franchise tag
You may be the worst poster here. Solid top 5 at worst. Just a miserable sloth you are.
The objective is to get to the draft with BPA a reality. Fill the holes with FA. Reese has said this on more than one occasion. What they've done today is simply be more aggressive for the top guys because they had the money to spend. I really don't think this is in any way a change in philosophy. Now this could all blow up in their face, but roster building is always a crap shoot. They spent the money on younger players who still have upside and can be center pieces for the defense. Bodes well for a significant turnaround.
Nicely done.
This^^^. We only have a few years left on Eli's watch. Wonder what TC thinks about all this.
Quote:
An idiot. Anyone saying this is anything other than a massive over reaction and over pay is just intellectually dishonest about this guys skill set
You may be the worst poster here. Solid top 5 at worst. Just a miserable sloth you are.
And JR should save the money for what reason? Jesus.
News Flash: The FA market is crazy this year (again). Need proof, look at what Osweiler just got from the Texans. At least Vernon has produced.
Nicely done.
Gene nails..I've never worried about the money because we were usually around or up against the cap..You work towards righting the wrongs by getting rid of dead wood and using that money to improve. You'd like to be flushed with money so that you can make immediate improvements and allow the draft to fall to you..When you have loads of money you spend it and we have so far..Not worried about cap hell with Abrams there
Olivier Vernon has a salary cap number of $13 million in Year 1 of deal #giants
Olivier Vernon has a salary cap number of $13 million in Year 1 of deal #giants
Thats a good number.. Giants are still able to make some moves.
New NYG Olivier Vernon was an elite pass rusher in 2nd half of 2015 season. From Weeks 9-17, he had 29 QB Hits -- most in the NFL.
9:44pm - 9 Mar 16
That stat is insane!
Why even say this?
Is that what we're doing now? Draft picks get one year, injured or not, and then they're outta here?
Plus, we had a historically bad defense last season. That's not even an exaggeration, sadly. You had to know we were going to go wild with a talent infusion on that side of the ball. It's not like we were just your normal run on the mill bad defense. No. We were all time bad. We needed the horses; and now we finally have them again for the first time in quite awhile.
Add onto that, it being Eli's last 5 years or so. It's time to make one last run these next handful of years. Also; the guys we signed are all entering their prime in their mid 20's. It was the right move.