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NFT: Knicks Chat: Oakley and Jimmy wuv each other

DanMetroMan : 2/14/2017 9:20 am
- A truce has been reached thanks to intervention from Adam Silver and MJ. It's expected Oakley will be back at the garden shortly.

-Hahn says Melo will not be traded

Around the league-

-Whispers that Embiid's knee is a "concern" to the 76ers and that they are downplaying it

- Saric 18 and 11 on 8-17, 3 assists. Last 5 games 19 and 6 with 3 assists on 51/41 shooting

-Kaminsky 12 and 11 (only shot 5-16, really surprised how poorly he has shot the ball)

-Leonard 32 points, 6 boards 3 assists, 4 steals. Averaging a ridiculous 33 and 7 with 4 assists, 2 steals last 5 games. He's my league MVP if I for some bizarre reason had a vote.

-Turner 22 and 6 (big fan but his lack of athleticism seems to limit his rebounding ability)

-Conley 32 and 6

-Lopez 17 points... 3 boards in 32 minutes

-Vucevic 13 and 17 with 3 assists, 3 blocks

-Super Mario 11 points, 1 board, 1 assist 1 steal over 16 minutes

-Sabonis 6 and 7. I only mention him because I have to say he has some intriguing skills despite his numbers. The fact he's getting so much burn (despite the #'s) as a 20 year old on a good team is a good sign. Moves really well, good hands. He's intriguing (again I know he hasn't been good)

-Maker 6 and 5 (3-10) over 17 minutes

-Beasley 23 points, 3 boards, 4 assists... had no idea he was playing so well in limited minutes


-Monroe 25 and 12. Sort of surprised you aren't hearing some of the teams looking for bigs in on Monroe. Yeah he needs the right team but the guy can play.


-Smart 19, 3 and 3... last 5 games 51% from the field

-Ferrell 20, 5 assists, 2 boards

-Jokic... WOW. 17 points, 12 assists, 21 boards, 2 steals

-Juancho 27 and 10, 2 assists, 1 steal, 1 block. Sure looks like both Hernangomez Brothers can ball

-PJ Tucker 11 and 16- one of the more likely movers at the deadline

-THjr 25, 7 and 4 (has been FANTASTIC lately)
Guess  
DanMetroMan : 2/14/2017 9:24 am : link
we should be in on this guy if so many teams are

2 hours ago via Twitter IAmDPick

David Pick: BREAKING: A dozen NBA teams want Milos Teodosic, but sources say San Antonio Spurs dont plan on recruiting Euroleague wizard PG.
2 hours ago via Twitter IAmDPick

David Pick: CSKA unwilling to surrender Milos Teodosic to NBA, sources said. He loves Moscow, the fame, could re-sign as highest paid Euroleague PG EVER
First  
DanMetroMan : 2/14/2017 9:25 am : link
NBDL, then D-League, it has now been renamed the G-League
The Knicks are dead to me  
blueblood : 2/14/2017 9:34 am : link
The Oakley issue was the last straw.. 20 plus years of losing.. scumbag owner.. done..
MJ and Silver should talk to Melo next  
bceagle05 : 2/14/2017 9:45 am : link
about leaving New York. An entire franchise being held hostage by Phil's dumbass no-trade clause.
Watching the okc thunder  
nygiants16 : 2/14/2017 9:48 am : link
they really are westbrook or bust, he has a bad game they have nothing..

roberson gives them nothing offensively, oladipo really has not been that good meahing with westbrook...

sabonis is a nice young piece for the future..

adams offensively has gotten better but he is not a guy you drop it down to and say go score, he us a very good defensive player and pick and roll player..



RE: The Knicks are dead to me  
nygiants16 : 2/14/2017 9:49 am : link
In comment 13360451 blueblood said:
Quote:
The Oakley issue was the last straw.. 20 plus years of losing.. scumbag owner.. done..


are you a rangers fan?
Never give up on my Knicks  
Carl in CT : 2/14/2017 9:51 am : link
Or my Rangers!
Thanks Dolan!  
DanMetroMan : 2/14/2017 9:56 am : link
Wade acknowledged Lebron/Wade/Bosh almost became the MSG3 before ultimately deciding against it citing "the organization" #Knicks
Kawhi really is something else  
Osi Osi Osi OyOyOy : 2/14/2017 9:57 am : link
I'd go Harden, but Kawhi would be a fine MVP choice. Just a filthy good player.
RE: First  
Greg from LI : 2/14/2017 9:59 am : link
In comment 13360435 DanMetroMan said:
Quote:
NBDL, then D-League, it has now been renamed the G-League


What does the G stand for?
RE: RE: First  
DanMetroMan : 2/14/2017 10:00 am : link
In comment 13360493 Greg from LI said:
Quote:
In comment 13360435 DanMetroMan said:


Quote:


NBDL, then D-League, it has now been renamed the G-League



What does the G stand for?


Gatorade
RE: Kawhi really is something else  
DanMetroMan : 2/14/2017 10:01 am : link
In comment 13360490 Osi Osi Osi OyOyOy said:
Quote:
I'd go Harden, but Kawhi would be a fine MVP choice. Just a filthy good player.


He's unlikely to win but it's kinda BS that a wing player basically doesn't get enough "credit" for being a 2 way guy when it comes to all-star games/MVP stuff. Why shouldn't he get a MAJOR boost for being such a strong 2 way guy? His defense is excellent, that has to take away some from his offense.
RE: Thanks Dolan!  
nygiants16 : 2/14/2017 10:07 am : link
In comment 13360488 DanMetroMan said:
Quote:
Wade acknowledged Lebron/Wade/Bosh almost became the MSG3 before ultimately deciding against it citing "the organization" #Knicks


i call bullshit because the knicks couldnt fit 3 guys, donnie tried to but couldnt get rid of curry's contract which hindered the knicks in adding 3..

wade himself said he did not think it would happen until miami was able to fit 3 guys in...

and he also said it would of happened somewhere else if another team could and miami couldnt...

he was ready to sigm with chicago
Update on Love...  
Keith : 2/14/2017 10:09 am : link

There is "concern" in Cleveland that Kevin Love (knee) "could be in line for an extended absence," according to Cleveland beat reporter Joe Vardon.

"I would love to be able to tell you that he'll miss three games and be back, but I can't right now because we don't know," general manager David Griffin said. Love has already been ruled out for Tuesday's game and appears extremely unlikely to play Wednesday. Love will get a second opinion on Tuesday, and we will have to wait until the team announces the results of that exam. Channing Frye will start at power forward on Tuesday. Kyrie Irving and LeBron James will be asked to shoulder more of the offensive load with Love sidelined.
I would definitely be concerned if i was Philly, RE: Embiid  
Keith : 2/14/2017 10:12 am : link
A torn meniscus doesn't just heal. He's had a plethora of injuries in his very young life and it's not going to just magically get better. Multiple foot injuries, a knee injury that could be degenerative, a pretty serious back injury in college and a myriad of other bumps and bruises.

I think the odds are more that he will never reach his ceiling due to injuries than the opposite. It's a shame, such a talented and competitive kid.
it certainly sounds like Cleveland could use Melo, then  
Greg from LI : 2/14/2017 10:18 am : link
I can't believe they won't make a move if they believe there's a chance Love won't be healthy for the playoffs.
It would make sense  
bceagle05 : 2/14/2017 10:22 am : link
but Hahn seemed pretty certain that a trade won't be happening, and hitdog has assured us of the same for weeks. That damn no-trade clause is gonna cost us a shot at a top PG this year.
hitdog very well could have a good source that confirmed the cavs  
Keith : 2/14/2017 10:25 am : link
weren't going to do it, but then Love got hurt and that changes everything. I'd be interested to hear why Hahn said the knicks aren't trading melo. Is he a mouthpiece for the knicks and the knicks are trying to get leverage knowing the cavs could be calling or do they know melo won't accept any trade?
Hypothetically, let's say Love is out for the season  
Keith : 2/14/2017 10:26 am : link
and lets say Cleveland did want to trade Love for Melo. If Lebron calls Melo and says, "Get your suit on, we need ya", you don't think Melo is rethinking his stance?
Hahn's always a little cryptic  
bceagle05 : 2/14/2017 10:31 am : link
but he made it sound like the Cavs have zero interest, even when DiPietro pressed him on the Love injury possibly changing things. I admire Melo wanting to stay in NY, but it's crystal clear at this point that winning just isn't on his priority list. The Knicks will win 30-35 games again next year at best.
RE: Thanks Dolan!  
TyreeHelmet : 2/14/2017 10:31 am : link
In comment 13360488 DanMetroMan said:
Quote:
Wade acknowledged Lebron/Wade/Bosh almost became the MSG3 before ultimately deciding against it citing "the organization" #Knicks


Man that hurts.

I think if Love is out for the year then a Carmelo trade is definitely realistic. I'm just not sure if they will be able to determine with certainly the extend of Love's absence before the deadline.
RE: Hypothetically, let's say Love is out for the season  
giants#1 : 2/14/2017 10:33 am : link
In comment 13360521 Keith said:
Quote:
and lets say Cleveland did want to trade Love for Melo. If Lebron calls Melo and says, "Get your suit on, we need ya", you don't think Melo is rethinking his stance?


LeBron vs LaLa...who wins?


Knicks/Cavs are both likely leaking stuff to their media contacts in a game of poker. We'll see who blinks first.
RE: Hahn's always a little cryptic  
Keith : 2/14/2017 10:34 am : link
In comment 13360529 bceagle05 said:
Quote:
but he made it sound like the Cavs have zero interest, even when DiPietro pressed him on the Love injury possibly changing things. I admire Melo wanting to stay in NY, but it's crystal clear at this point that winning just isn't on his priority list. The Knicks will win 30-35 games again next year at best.


Agree on Melo.

I'd be really surprised if the Cavs didn't do something drastic(unless Love's injury is short term). Are they better than Boston without Love? What if Boston makes a move which they probably would? What other options would they have to bring in a key cog? It could all be negotiating tactics, but a season ending injury(while it sucks for Love), would be ideal considering our situation.
Well, we would certainly need Lebron  
bceagle05 : 2/14/2017 10:37 am : link
and his people to get behind the move 100 percent for it to have any chance. Seems like if it's up to the Cavs management, it ain't happening.
RE: RE: Hahn's always a little cryptic  
giants#1 : 2/14/2017 10:38 am : link
In comment 13360536 Keith said:
Quote:
In comment 13360529 bceagle05 said:


Quote:


but he made it sound like the Cavs have zero interest, even when DiPietro pressed him on the Love injury possibly changing things. I admire Melo wanting to stay in NY, but it's crystal clear at this point that winning just isn't on his priority list. The Knicks will win 30-35 games again next year at best.



Agree on Melo.

I'd be really surprised if the Cavs didn't do something drastic(unless Love's injury is short term). Are they better than Boston without Love? What if Boston makes a move which they probably would? What other options would they have to bring in a key cog? It could all be negotiating tactics, but a season ending injury(while it sucks for Love), would be ideal considering our situation.


That's the other side of the equation. If Love is out for an extended time, I think that increases the odds of Boston and/or Toronto making a move since it greatly improves their odds of beating Cleveland.
Jokic  
giantsfan44ab : 2/14/2017 10:38 am : link
Age 21 seasons per 36:

22, 6 and 12. 1 block, 1 steal. 65% TS, 26.8 PER, .236 WS/48

Magic Johnson:

21, 8 and 8, 3 steals, 53%, 17% from 3. 58% TS, 25.7 PER, .225 WS/48.


I can't think of a better comparison for what he's doing.
...  
Keith : 2/14/2017 10:43 am : link

Team president Phil Jackson views Willy Hernangomez and Kristaps Porzingis as the "starting frontcourt tandem of the future," according to Mark Berman of the New York Post.

Sunday was the first time Hernangomez started alongside Porzingis and Knicks posted arguably their most impressive win of the season, a 94-90 victory over the Spurs. Joakim Noah (hamstring) is expected to miss at least one more game, so Hernangomez will likely start again on Wednesday vs. OKC. If Noah is healthy after the All-Star break, coach Jeff Hornacek will have a tough decision to make. Either way, Hernangomez had done enough to earn consistent minutes going forward.
I don't think that Melo will get traded either.  
Heisenberg : 2/14/2017 10:48 am : link
At least not during the season. In the offseason, when there's a lot more flexibility? Much more possible.
Breaking News:  
DanMetroMan : 2/14/2017 11:03 am : link
Love to miss 6 weeks "minor" knee surgery
Ibaka  
Jon in NYC : 2/14/2017 11:10 am : link
to Toronto per Woj.
RE: RE: Thanks Dolan!  
Shecky : 2/14/2017 11:12 am : link
In comment 13360502 nygiants16 said:
Quote:
In comment 13360488 DanMetroMan said:


Quote:


Wade acknowledged Lebron/Wade/Bosh almost became the MSG3 before ultimately deciding against it citing "the organization" #Knicks



i call bullshit because the knicks couldnt fit 3 guys, donnie tried to but couldnt get rid of curry's contract which hindered the knicks in adding 3..

wade himself said he did not think it would happen until miami was able to fit 3 guys in...

and he also said it would of happened somewhere else if another team could and miami couldnt...


Interesting, hadn't seen this before. So is he kinda sorta admitting the three talked about joining together now after they denied it all these years?
he was ready to sigm with chicago
Anyone want Rose or Jennings?  
bceagle05 : 2/14/2017 11:13 am : link
Anyone? Bueller?
RE: RE: RE: Thanks Dolan!  
Shecky : 2/14/2017 11:13 am : link
In comment 13360596 Shecky said:
Quote:
In comment 13360502 nygiants16 said:


Quote:


In comment 13360488 DanMetroMan said:


Quote:


Wade acknowledged Lebron/Wade/Bosh almost became the MSG3 before ultimately deciding against it citing "the organization" #Knicks



i call bullshit because the knicks couldnt fit 3 guys, donnie tried to but couldnt get rid of curry's contract which hindered the knicks in adding 3..

wade himself said he did not think it would happen until miami was able to fit 3 guys in...

and he also said it would of happened somewhere else if another team could and miami couldnt...


Interesting, hadn't seen this before. So is he kinda sorta admitting the three talked about joining together now after they denied it all these years?
he was ready to sigm with chicago



Not sure what happened, but reformatted:
interesting, hadn't seen this before. So is he kinda sorta admitting the three talked about joining together now after they denied it all these years?
he was ready to sigm with chicago
..  
DanMetroMan : 2/14/2017 11:16 am : link
We have a trade!

Serge Ibaka is going to the Raptors for Terrence Ross and a first round pick, per @WojVerticalNBA
seemed like a good match.  
dep026 : 2/14/2017 11:17 am : link
Terrance Ross to the 3 and gordon to the 4, where he should have been the whole time.
Love news:  
Keith : 2/14/2017 11:17 am : link
To me, that's a meniscus tear that they will be cleaning out(or cutting out the torn portion).

The recovery is much shorter than the "repair" of the meniscus and could be 4-6 weeks. A lot of players in the past have come back sooner than they do now(probably due to having more knowledge of the injury). It's the same procedure that Lin had when he missed 19 seasons.

If it heals properly, it's definitely something that Love can come back to without issues. However, this will effect him later in life, usually mid 30's because he will be missing a piece of his meniscus and that usually causes arthritis.

I think 6 weeks is a realistic timeframe to give him enough rest and therapy to get him to where he needs to be. That would get him back for the last 2 weeks of the regular season.
Well the East just got a little more interesting.  
bceagle05 : 2/14/2017 11:19 am : link
I know Ibaka has fallen off some but maybe a change of scenery and a winning team will do him some good. That's a nice starting five all of a sudden.
.  
DanMetroMan : 2/14/2017 11:19 am : link
Alex Kennedy ‏@AlexKennedyNBA 3s3 seconds ago
More
ORL has Terrence Ross and a first-rounder to show for trading Serge Ibaka, Victor Oladipo, Domantas Sabonis, Tobias Harris and Moe Harkless.
Great job Orlando  
Keith : 2/14/2017 11:21 am : link
You have to think they could have gotten a much better return just trading Oladipo last offseason.
Ibaka trades =  
Deej : 2/14/2017 11:22 am : link
fucking disaster for ORL. That GM cant keep his job after Ibaka, Harris, Hez.

Every GM should be on the phone with Orlando, whose GM is just in a "do something to save my job" mode.
Yep, we've found a personnel guy worse than Phil.  
bceagle05 : 2/14/2017 11:24 am : link
Lord, it's a miracle!
RE: Well the East just got a little more interesting.  
nygiants16 : 2/14/2017 11:27 am : link
In comment 13360607 bceagle05 said:
Quote:
I know Ibaka has fallen off some but maybe a change of scenery and a winning team will do him some good. That's a nice starting five all of a sudden.


if ibaka can regain his form it is a good trade but he has been awful this year
Moves  
TyreeHelmet : 2/14/2017 11:30 am : link
What a disaster for Hennigan and Orlando.

If you are the Cavs/ Lebron, are you risking Love being 100% healthy for the playoffs? If you could get Melo/ Jennings/ O'Quinn for Love, does that improve your title chances?
I think Ibaka probably fits better with Toronto  
Keith : 2/14/2017 11:30 am : link
they are like a poor mans OKC from Ibakas days.
To give them Melo, Jennings and Oquinn  
Keith : 2/14/2017 11:32 am : link
we'd have to take back a contract like Shump. I don't think that's necessary for the Knicks anymore. The cavs are out of options really. Its either hope Love heals and contributes or trade for Melo straight up, IMO.
By the way..  
Keith : 2/14/2017 11:33 am : link
I wouldn't be opposed to trading for Thomas if that was a realistic option. I wouldn't go higher than a 2nd rounder, but I'm not opposed to the idea. Dudes a stud.
Chris Herring  
Deej : 2/14/2017 11:33 am : link
on why the Knicks suck. Note the Rolo discussion, losers and haters.
Link - ( New Window )
id be on the phone with orlando  
nygiants16 : 2/14/2017 11:33 am : link
see if you can pry hezonja from them..
RE: Moves  
nygiants16 : 2/14/2017 11:34 am : link
In comment 13360630 TyreeHelmet said:
Quote:
What a disaster for Hennigan and Orlando.

If you are the Cavs/ Lebron, are you risking Love being 100% healthy for the playoffs? If you could get Melo/ Jennings/ O'Quinn for Love, does that improve your title chances?


you know damn well lwbron is in the cavs gm office saying make the deal
Im sorry  
Jon in NYC : 2/14/2017 11:36 am : link
but trading Lopez for Rose was far from the worst move that he's made. The only reason it's being treated as such is because Noah has been a mess. But clearing Lopez' salary and giving the C spot to Willy/KOQ would have been a fine move.
I read the first few paragraphs and he didn't even touch on  
Keith : 2/14/2017 11:36 am : link
the real problem with Melo. It's not his personality or willingness to play the 4, its that he is nowhere near the player he used to be and like you've stated, its since the knee injury. That is the #1 problem with this team. Now he's not a great player and he doesn't help anywhere else. The article should start there.
So brutal for the Magic  
kash94 : 2/14/2017 11:38 am : link
they basically traded Oladipo, a high first round pick, and Illyasova for Ross and a late first rounder
I will discredit anyone who compares the Rose trade  
Keith : 2/14/2017 11:39 am : link
to the constant chase of a star from the past. In the past, we've mortgaged the future to get it done so everything was riding on that move. That's just not the case with this move and anyone who compares, its off base.

The only good point he has was that it would have prevented the Noah move.
RE: Im sorry  
Heisenberg : 2/14/2017 11:39 am : link
In comment 13360643 Jon in NYC said:
Quote:
but trading Lopez for Rose was far from the worst move that he's made. The only reason it's being treated as such is because Noah has been a mess. But clearing Lopez' salary and giving the C spot to Willy/KOQ would have been a fine move.


Yeah, the bad Noah contract is a problem now because he's the third best center on the team. It would have hard to be confident that KOQ and Willy were capable of manning that position before we got to see how well they've played this year. KOQ has played much better than last year and Willy has been a real relevation and shown very little learning curve.
Without Noah,  
Jon in NYC : 2/14/2017 11:40 am : link
Lee and Thomas, the Knicks have room for 2 maxes this summer. Lee is playing fine, not great, and the other two are albatrosses.
LOL at Orlando  
giantsfan44ab : 2/14/2017 11:42 am : link
So now Toronto has to dole out 2 max contracts this offseason?
The Noah  
kash94 : 2/14/2017 11:43 am : link
deal made no sense. Forget about the AAV since pretty much all centers got a ton of money last offseason but a 4 year deal for a 31 year old guy that historically misses around 20 games a year including 50 last year is awful. Not on Amare or Curry level of bad, but certainly one of the worst deals in the past few years for the Knicks.
RE: RE: Im sorry  
TyreeHelmet : 2/14/2017 11:45 am : link
In comment 13360652 Heisenberg said:
Quote:
In comment 13360643 Jon in NYC said:


Quote:


but trading Lopez for Rose was far from the worst move that he's made. The only reason it's being treated as such is because Noah has been a mess. But clearing Lopez' salary and giving the C spot to Willy/KOQ would have been a fine move.



Yeah, the bad Noah contract is a problem now because he's the third best center on the team. It would have hard to be confident that KOQ and Willy were capable of manning that position before we got to see how well they've played this year. KOQ has played much better than last year and Willy has been a real relevation and shown very little learning curve.


But that's one of my arguments of Phil- he's bad a self scouting his own team. He should have known KOQ/ Willy/ Porzingis could cover the 5 spot. Or sign a vet for a shorter/ cheaper contract. Zero reason to give Noah that deal. He just doesn't have a direction and wants to straddle going for the playoffs and rebuilding, which is incredibly hard to to do. What he's accomplished is putting the Knicks in the worst spot you can be in the NBA- the middle of the pack.

And I can't stand D. Rose as a player but I still don't view the trade as that bad. Robin Lopez isn't a big loss.
RE: To give them Melo, Jennings and Oquinn  
TyreeHelmet : 2/14/2017 11:47 am : link
In comment 13360633 Keith said:
Quote:
we'd have to take back a contract like Shump. I don't think that's necessary for the Knicks anymore. The cavs are out of options really. Its either hope Love heals and contributes or trade for Melo straight up, IMO.


What about Frye's contract? KOQ and Jennings aren't all stars, but it aligns them better to beat the Warriors and eliminates the risk of Love not being healthy for the playoffs.
The hopeful reason Noahs deal won't be crippling...  
Keith : 2/14/2017 11:48 am : link
If we are able to move Melo without taking significant money back, we'd be far under the cap with Rose coming off as well. The Knicks will be like $40M under the cap and hopefully rebuilding around youth. They shouldn't have an issue clearing another 12M if they wanted to move Lee. Not to mention, who would they be spending the money on anyway?
Nobody expected KOQ and Willy to be able to handle C  
Keith : 2/14/2017 11:50 am : link
First off, KOQ was a disappointment in his first year and we were looking to trade him. Secondly, nobody expected Willy to come and play any major role in his rookie season. If anyone tells you that they thought we had the C locked up for the season, they are liars.
I don't even trust the Knicks with cap space anymore.  
bceagle05 : 2/14/2017 11:50 am : link
Hopefully our hands are tied over the next two years and we're forced to add players through the draft only. We might actually get somewhere.
I do not believe that Frye's salary  
Keith : 2/14/2017 11:52 am : link
is enough to make it work, I think they'd have to throw in another 1-2 million somewhere.
RE: The hopeful reason Noahs deal won't be crippling...  
giantsfan44ab : 2/14/2017 11:52 am : link
In comment 13360671 Keith said:
Quote:
If we are able to move Melo without taking significant money back, we'd be far under the cap with Rose coming off as well. The Knicks will be like $40M under the cap and hopefully rebuilding around youth. They shouldn't have an issue clearing another 12M if they wanted to move Lee. Not to mention, who would they be spending the money on anyway?


It was an awful signing at the outset, but if rebuilding is the clear path then I actually want him around. You're right, that money doesn't affect anything. Actually, it forces Dolan to pay $17M a year to an aging vet when they're trying to lose games. Good, fuck him.
Yeah F Dolan  
Keith : 2/14/2017 11:53 am : link
and more importantly, there is a floor they'd have to hit as well.
RE: Chris Herring  
shockeyisthebest8056 : 2/14/2017 11:53 am : link
In comment 13360637 Deej said:
Quote:
on why the Knicks suck. Note the Rolo discussion, losers and haters. Link - ( New Window )


One issue I have with the article is how could anyone have a lot to show for Chandler, JR, and Shump? Chandler quit the previous season. JR turned back into asswipe JR and between Shump's impending free agent status and lack of progress, he wasn't a highly in demand player either.

Yes, it's a mistake to trade guys at the nadir of their value. But sometimes, you just want assholes and quitters off of your roster. In contrast, Zach Randolph averaged 18 & 10 as a Knick and was traded for old, soggy peanuts. But no one kills Donnie Walsh for that (in the basketball media).
RE: I do not believe that Frye's salary  
giantsfan44ab : 2/14/2017 11:54 am : link
In comment 13360683 Keith said:
Quote:
is enough to make it work, I think they'd have to throw in another 1-2 million somewhere.


Frye is also useful to them come playoff time. Shump is having a good year but I can't imagine the thought of relying on Shump to match Klay basket for basket in the finals sits well with Cleveland management, or Lebron.
The knicks traded Zach Randolph for garbage  
Keith : 2/14/2017 11:55 am : link
because everyone knew that we had to get rid of his salary(to make a play for Lebron) and its not like there were teams lining up to trade for him. He wasn't a desirable player at all.
RE: Yeah F Dolan  
giantsfan44ab : 2/14/2017 11:56 am : link
In comment 13360687 Keith said:
Quote:
and more importantly, there is a floor they'd have to hit as well.


They don't have to hit it even, the difference just gets split amongst the current players. Let KP and Willy wet the beak a little.
RE: The knicks traded Zach Randolph for garbage  
giantsfan44ab : 2/14/2017 11:57 am : link
In comment 13360694 Keith said:
Quote:
because everyone knew that we had to get rid of his salary(to make a play for Lebron) and its not like there were teams lining up to trade for him. He wasn't a desirable player at all.


Wasn't that David lee?
RE: RE: Yeah F Dolan  
Keith : 2/14/2017 11:58 am : link
In comment 13360695 giantsfan44ab said:
Quote:
In comment 13360687 Keith said:


Quote:


and more importantly, there is a floor they'd have to hit as well.



They don't have to hit it even, the difference just gets split amongst the current players. Let KP and Willy wet the beak a little.


Good pt, but Noah would see most of it, lol.
RE: RE: The knicks traded Zach Randolph for garbage  
Deej : 2/14/2017 12:00 pm : link
In comment 13360697 giantsfan44ab said:
Quote:
In comment 13360694 Keith said:


Quote:


because everyone knew that we had to get rid of his salary(to make a play for Lebron) and its not like there were teams lining up to trade for him. He wasn't a desirable player at all.



Wasn't that David lee?


No the ZBo trade was about the summer of LeBron. Literally, we got back a player with a previously unknown heart condition and proceeded anyway. Because it was just a 2010 dump. That trade still pisses me off.
RE: The knicks traded Zach Randolph for garbage  
shockeyisthebest8056 : 2/14/2017 12:00 pm : link
In comment 13360694 Keith said:
Quote:
because everyone knew that we had to get rid of his salary(to make a play for Lebron) and its not like there were teams lining up to trade for him. He wasn't a desirable player at all.


He was 27 years-old putting up numbers and was traded for literally nothing a month into the season. If Phil is going to catch heck for trading malcontents and idiots for no return, Walsh should've gotten the same criticism.
The Knicks gave up a first round pick for fucking BARGNANI  
Greg from LI : 2/14/2017 12:02 pm : link
So you can't tell me they couldn't have gotten more for Z-Bo. Of course, maybe they couldn't since they can't trade with themselves.
Run at Lebron...  
Keith : 2/14/2017 12:02 pm : link
The Knicks completed a wild day of trading on Friday when they sent Zach Randolph and Mardy Collins to the Clippers for Tim Thomas and Cuttino Mobley. The deal comes less than two hours after Donnie Walsh traded Jamal Crawford to the Warriors for Al Harrington.


Both deals were made to clear salary cap space for the summer of 2010 for when LeBron James becomes a free agent. The contracts of Harrington, Thomas and Mobley all expire in two years which will put the Knicks in position to make a run at James, the most coveted free agent since Shaquille O'Neal left the Orlando Magic to sign with the Los Angeles Lakers.

Stroll down memory lane - ( New Window )
Wake me up when this  
Beezer : 2/14/2017 12:02 pm : link
bullshit ends.

I just want to watch good basketball.

As long as Willy starts next to Kris, I can turn away from the shit show, otherwise.
There were a lot of bbi'ers defending the Bargnani  
Keith : 2/14/2017 12:03 pm : link
move. Downplaying the importance of a late 1st rounder.
RE: RE: Chris Herring  
TyreeHelmet : 2/14/2017 12:04 pm : link
In comment 13360688 shockeyisthebest8056 said:
Quote:
In comment 13360637 Deej said:


Quote:


on why the Knicks suck. Note the Rolo discussion, losers and haters. Link - ( New Window )



One issue I have with the article is how could anyone have a lot to show for Chandler, JR, and Shump? Chandler quit the previous season. JR turned back into asswipe JR and between Shump's impending free agent status and lack of progress, he wasn't a highly in demand player either.

Yes, it's a mistake to trade guys at the nadir of their value. But sometimes, you just want assholes and quitters off of your roster. In contrast, Zach Randolph averaged 18 & 10 as a Knick and was traded for old, soggy peanuts. But no one kills Donnie Walsh for that (in the basketball media).


The media sucks up to Donnie Walsh because he was an open book and is a nice man. He did not do a good job with the Knicks.
RE: RE: RE: The knicks traded Zach Randolph for garbage  
giantsfan44ab : 2/14/2017 12:07 pm : link
In comment 13360702 Deej said:
Quote:
In comment 13360697 giantsfan44ab said:


Quote:


In comment 13360694 Keith said:


Quote:


because everyone knew that we had to get rid of his salary(to make a play for Lebron) and its not like there were teams lining up to trade for him. He wasn't a desirable player at all.



Wasn't that David lee?



No the ZBo trade was about the summer of LeBron. Literally, we got back a player with a previously unknown heart condition and proceeded anyway. Because it was just a 2010 dump. That trade still pisses me off.


Ah ok. I actually think I started following basketball (or at least the Knicks) shortly after Randolph got traded. Lee, Wilson Chandler and Tmac were the three memorable players that year for me I believe.
maybe there were some  
Greg from LI : 2/14/2017 12:08 pm : link
I know I wasn't one of them, and I was hardly alone.
If we're gonna reminisce about bad Knicks trades  
bceagle05 : 2/14/2017 12:08 pm : link
someone better put on a pot of coffee.

Trevor Ariza's still in the league, by the way. Traded for Stevie Franchise, when Isiah and Larry Brown literally shrugged their shoulders at the press conference and admitted they were just throwing shit against the wall.
Donnie Walsh did his job how he was hired to do it..  
Keith : 2/14/2017 12:10 pm : link
He was hired in an attempt to make a play for Lebron. I think almost everyone agreed that this was what we needed to do. Most thought there was a realistic change at getting Lebron.

Walsh was hired to do that and he did what he had to do. All he needed to do was clear as much salary as possible and draft well. His drafts were ok. Drafted Gallo who was probably the best pick considering the value on the board. Jordan Hill was a brutal pick.
.  
DanMetroMan : 2/14/2017 12:12 pm : link
Sam AmicoVerified account
‏@AmicoHoops

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Ownership has given #Cavs green light to increase payroll/tax, per AmicoHoops source. Team said to be working on several trade possibilities
RE: .  
giantsfan44ab : 2/14/2017 12:15 pm : link
In comment 13360728 DanMetroMan said:
Quote:
Sam AmicoVerified account
‏@AmicoHoops

Following
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Ownership has given #Cavs green light to increase payroll/tax, per AmicoHoops source. Team said to be working on several trade possibilities


That saying something about love or am I reading too much into that?
RE: RE: .  
DanMetroMan : 2/14/2017 12:17 pm : link
In comment 13360732 giantsfan44ab said:
Quote:
In comment 13360728 DanMetroMan said:


Quote:


Sam AmicoVerified account
‏@AmicoHoops

Following
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Ownership has given #Cavs green light to increase payroll/tax, per AmicoHoops source. Team said to be working on several trade possibilities



That saying something about love or am I reading too much into that?


I mean they were supposedly snooping around for a PG and a big for a few weeks now so it could be a little of both.
RE: If we're gonna reminisce about bad Knicks trades  
Greg from LI : 2/14/2017 12:18 pm : link
In comment 13360722 bceagle05 said:
Quote:
Traded for Stevie Franchise, when Isiah and Larry Brown literally shrugged their shoulders at the press conference and admitted they were just throwing shit against the wall.


I'll never forget that - Isiah actually, seriously said "It's so crazy, it just might work"

God almighty, what did we all do to deserve over 15 years of this shitshow?
RE: RE: RE: .  
Deej : 2/14/2017 12:22 pm : link
In comment 13360736 DanMetroMan said:
Quote:
In comment 13360732 giantsfan44ab said:


Quote:


In comment 13360728 DanMetroMan said:


Quote:


Sam AmicoVerified account
‏@AmicoHoops

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Ownership has given #Cavs green light to increase payroll/tax, per AmicoHoops source. Team said to be working on several trade possibilities



That saying something about love or am I reading too much into that?



I mean they were supposedly snooping around for a PG and a big for a few weeks now so it could be a little of both.


Ibaka is probably a factor too.
Yeah I think he even referenced his Pistons teams  
bceagle05 : 2/14/2017 12:24 pm : link
and compared a Marbury/Francis backcourt to him and Dumars or something.

What a spectacle that Larry Brown year was. He came up with starting lineups based on what city the team was in. I remember he threw rookie Nate Robinson in the starting lineup in Portland because Nate was from the Pacific Northwest. He did the same for Channing Frye when we played in Phoenix. And he stapled David Lee to the bench for the likes of Malik Rose and Mo Taylor.
The Walsh tenure has to be taken in context for the goal and the mkt.  
Heisenberg : 2/14/2017 12:24 pm : link
At that time everyone was trying to get under the cap and the cap was much, much lower than it is now. Very few teams had room. It was a buyers market for bad contracts.
That's why Morely smartly became a buyer of contracts and assets to go with them.

Then we didn't get LeBron and all that selling was for nothing.
RE: The Walsh tenure has to be taken in context for the goal and the mkt.  
nygiants16 : 2/14/2017 12:28 pm : link
In comment 13360752 Heisenberg said:
Quote:
At that time everyone was trying to get under the cap and the cap was much, much lower than it is now. Very few teams had room. It was a buyers market for bad contracts.
That's why Morely smartly became a buyer of contracts and assets to go with them.

Then we didn't get LeBron and all that selling was for nothing.


walshs tenure failed whem he decided to try and win games rather than just completely blowing it up and tanking..

plus he told the media everything..

the mcgrady trade was god awful where he gave up a first..

the randolph and crawford trades were awful, he ruahed trying to get rid of their salaries when every gm in the nba knew what he was doing
Well then it's also important to understand why Walsh did what  
Keith : 2/14/2017 12:31 pm : link
he did after missing out on Lebron. Nobody was able to convince Dolan to tank and be bad. Walsh sold Dolan on a run at LeBron, but if that doesn't work, the back up plan is to sign other "stars". You think Dolan was going to let Walsh continue to be bad for another 3-4 years? In fact, the team was playing better than it ever has before the Melo trade.
RE: RE: RE: RE: .  
giantsfan44ab : 2/14/2017 12:31 pm : link
In comment 13360748 Deej said:
Quote:
In comment 13360736 DanMetroMan said:


Quote:


In comment 13360732 giantsfan44ab said:


Quote:


In comment 13360728 DanMetroMan said:


Quote:


Sam AmicoVerified account
‏@AmicoHoops

Following
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Ownership has given #Cavs green light to increase payroll/tax, per AmicoHoops source. Team said to be working on several trade possibilities



That saying something about love or am I reading too much into that?



I mean they were supposedly snooping around for a PG and a big for a few weeks now so it could be a little of both.



Ibaka is probably a factor too.


I'm totally on board with the sentiment that Ibaka has been a little overhyped. But whatever Toronto has been trotting out at the 4 spot has been so bad, that I think getting even a slightly above average PF is a massive win for them. Even though they've been in absolute free fall a lot of their losses have been by less than 5 points (many 1,2,3 point losses too).

Should make things a bit interesting. The Cavs can't put out Frye and Thompson against Ibaka and JV and expect things to go well.
we had so many formerly useful end of the line vets then  
Greg from LI : 2/14/2017 12:31 pm : link
Rose, Taylor, Jalen Rose, Antonio Davis, Penny, Vin Baker, Jerome Williams, TMac....I'm sure I'm forgetting someone
The Knicks were in a weird position.  
Keith : 2/14/2017 12:33 pm : link
We had to clear every big salary from the books and not take back any salary into the 2010 season and every single team in the NBA knew exactly what we needed to do. You are trading from a position of weakness when there weren't a lot of teams knocking down the door for the guys that we had. Zach Randolph was a joke with the knicks, literally.
RE: The Knicks were in a weird position.  
nygiants16 : 2/14/2017 12:36 pm : link
In comment 13360771 Keith said:
Quote:
We had to clear every big salary from the books and not take back any salary into the 2010 season and every single team in the NBA knew exactly what we needed to do. You are trading from a position of weakness when there weren't a lot of teams knocking down the door for the guys that we had. Zach Randolph was a joke with the knicks, literally.


do you know what randolph was averaging in those 11 games before he was traded?
RE: we had so many formerly useful end of the line vets then  
bceagle05 : 2/14/2017 12:37 pm : link
In comment 13360768 Greg from LI said:
Quote:
Rose, Taylor, Jalen Rose, Antonio Davis, Penny, Vin Baker, Jerome Williams, TMac....I'm sure I'm forgetting someone


Perception of Randolph is that he was a joke.  
Keith : 2/14/2017 12:38 pm : link
The Knicks were a joke and he didn't have a lot of value around the league. It's funny seeing people try to rewrite history. I'm not going to say walsh did a great job, but he did what he was brought in to do. Your problem, like most problems, was with the owner who has always meddled and he never wanted to rebuild.
RE: The Knicks were in a weird position.  
Enzo : 2/14/2017 12:42 pm : link
In comment 13360771 Keith said:
Quote:
We had to clear every big salary from the books and not take back any salary into the 2010 season and every single team in the NBA knew exactly what we needed to do. You are trading from a position of weakness when there weren't a lot of teams knocking down the door for the guys that we had. Zach Randolph was a joke with the knicks, literally.

this is just dumb. Walsh unloaded Zach in the fall of 2008 - basically 20 months before Lebron became a free agent. There was no rush - and no need to just dump them the first chance a team offered up expirings for him.
RE: RE: The Knicks were in a weird position.  
Keith : 2/14/2017 12:46 pm : link
In comment 13360788 Enzo said:
Quote:
In comment 13360771 Keith said:


Quote:


We had to clear every big salary from the books and not take back any salary into the 2010 season and every single team in the NBA knew exactly what we needed to do. You are trading from a position of weakness when there weren't a lot of teams knocking down the door for the guys that we had. Zach Randolph was a joke with the knicks, literally.


this is just dumb. Walsh unloaded Zach in the fall of 2008 - basically 20 months before Lebron became a free agent. There was no rush - and no need to just dump them the first chance a team offered up expirings for him.


There's a shocking stance!

At the time, without rewriting history and knowing the future, Randolph was considered an albatross and we needed to clear him. My guess is Walsh feared we wouldn't be able to move him for expirings if the didn't do it asap. Randolph was not viewed as a player anyone wanted when he was with the Knicks.
Didn't see this posted:  
giantsfan44ab : 2/14/2017 12:47 pm : link
"Kevin Love will undergo a scope on his left knee that is expected to sideline him for six weeks.

This is obviously a major blow to both the Cavs and to Love owners. There are only eight weeks left in the NBA season, so even if Love stays on schedule and returns six weeks from today, Cleveland will likely limit his minutes over the final fortnight of the regular season in order to keep him fresh for the playoffs. In the interim, Channing Frye will likely see the biggest boost in fantasy value, with Richard Jefferson also soaking up extra minutes."

Per Dave Mcmenamin
.  
DanMetroMan : 2/14/2017 12:51 pm : link
Marc Stein ‏@ESPNSteinLine 2h2 hours ago
More
The Cavaliers just announced that Kevin Love underwent arthroscopic surgery today on his left knee and will be out an estimated six weeks
RE: Perception of Randolph is that he was a joke.  
nygiants16 : 2/14/2017 12:53 pm : link
In comment 13360784 Keith said:
Quote:
The Knicks were a joke and he didn't have a lot of value around the league. It's funny seeing people try to rewrite history. I'm not going to say walsh did a great job, but he did what he was brought in to do. Your problem, like most problems, was with the owner who has always meddled and he never wanted to rebuild.


Not 1 walsh move was a good move
Yeah because every move was to  
Keith : 2/14/2017 12:54 pm : link
clear salary for a run at lebron. He drafted Gallo, that was good.
I'm not trying to argue that Walsh did a good job,  
Keith : 2/14/2017 12:56 pm : link
but he was hired to clear salary and sign lebron. That was his job, to trade off a bunch of losers and not take salary back.
RE: Yeah because every move was to  
nygiants16 : 2/14/2017 12:57 pm : link
In comment 13360810 Keith said:
Quote:
clear salary for a run at lebron. He drafted Gallo, that was good.


they should of been top 4 in the draft that year not 6...

RE: I'm not trying to argue that Walsh did a good job,  
EricNY33 : 2/14/2017 12:58 pm : link
In comment 13360814 Keith said:
Quote:
but he was hired to clear salary and sign lebron. That was his job, to trade off a bunch of losers and not take salary back.


I agree with you. He did what he was hired to do.
RE: RE: Yeah because every move was to  
EricNY33 : 2/14/2017 12:58 pm : link
In comment 13360819 nygiants16 said:
Quote:
In comment 13360810 Keith said:


Quote:


clear salary for a run at lebron. He drafted Gallo, that was good.



they should of been top 4 in the draft that year not 6...


Um... what is the relevance to this conversation?
RE: RE: RE: Yeah because every move was to  
nygiants16 : 2/14/2017 12:59 pm : link
In comment 13360825 EricNY33 said:
Quote:
In comment 13360819 nygiants16 said:


Quote:


In comment 13360810 Keith said:


Quote:


clear salary for a run at lebron. He drafted Gallo, that was good.



they should of been top 4 in the draft that year not 6...




Um... what is the relevance to this conversation?


my point was he fucked up from the start, instead of trying to win games he should of just tanked, sell off every part of that team and tanked..

instead he tried to win games while also cutting salary
RE: .  
giantsfan44ab : 2/14/2017 1:01 pm : link
In comment 13360806 DanMetroMan said:
Quote:
Marc Stein ‏@ESPNSteinLine 2h2 hours ago
More
The Cavaliers just announced that Kevin Love underwent arthroscopic surgery today on his left knee and will be out an estimated six weeks


Might be just short enough for Cleveland to stay the course.
..  
nygiants16 : 2/14/2017 1:01 pm : link
randolph and crawforf trades were horrible but i understood why he did it..

the mcgrady trade was awful, gave up a 1st, bevause he thought mcgrady would show something, then would resign for dirt cheap as the 3rd guy, failed miserably
I would only want Love  
bceagle05 : 2/14/2017 1:04 pm : link
if we could flip him for picks. This knee injury doesn't help that cause, so I'm not sure this would even make sense from a Knicks standpoint. So we'll probably go ahead and do it.

Someone posted an excerpt from Berman's story today that Phil thinks of KP and Willy as the frontcourt of the future. If Love isn't helping us add 1s, 2s or 3s, I don't see much point in acquiring him.
RE: RE: RE: RE: Yeah because every move was to  
EricNY33 : 2/14/2017 1:05 pm : link
In comment 13360828 nygiants16 said:
Quote:
In comment 13360825 EricNY33 said:



Um... what is the relevance to this conversation?



my point was he fucked up from the start, instead of trying to win games he should of just tanked, sell off every part of that team and tanked..

instead he tried to win games while also cutting salary


Um... he traded Randolph for Cuttino Mobley (who had a heart condition) and Tim "I Have No Heart" Thomas and Crawford for Al Harrington. How is that trying to win? Those guys all were lesser players than what he gave up. The deal I didn't like was the McGrady deal. That one was just silly.
RE: RE: RE: RE: RE: Yeah because every move was to  
Keith : 2/14/2017 1:09 pm : link
In comment 13360838 EricNY33 said:
Quote:
In comment 13360828 nygiants16 said:


Quote:


In comment 13360825 EricNY33 said:



Um... what is the relevance to this conversation?



my point was he fucked up from the start, instead of trying to win games he should of just tanked, sell off every part of that team and tanked..

instead he tried to win games while also cutting salary



Um... he traded Randolph for Cuttino Mobley (who had a heart condition) and Tim "I Have No Heart" Thomas and Crawford for Al Harrington. How is that trying to win? Those guys all were lesser players than what he gave up. The deal I didn't like was the McGrady deal. That one was just silly.


Um... what is the relevance to this conversation? lol
Raptors interesting scenario  
giantsfan44ab : 2/14/2017 1:10 pm : link
Zach Lowe projects their cap at $130M even with Lowry/Ibaka taking on sub max contracts.

Could Toronto potentially be attaching picks/young guys for someone to take on Carroll? No need to make a move this season, but potential send O'Quinn/Kuz for their first rounder, Poetl and Wright or something along those lines. Move Derozan to the 3 and play Powell at the 2.
i should change what i am saying about gallo draft  
nygiants16 : 2/14/2017 1:11 pm : link
i forgot walsh took over that summer so he didnt have chance to tank..

eric he also traded for larry hughes and chris wilcox in an attempt to win more games and try and make the playoffs..

randolph and crawford wee part of the "big r" of bad contracts he had to move
Didn't toronto just trade their 1st?  
Keith : 2/14/2017 1:12 pm : link
It would have to be 2019 1st.
RE: Didn't toronto just trade their 1st?  
nygiants16 : 2/14/2017 1:13 pm : link
In comment 13360849 Keith said:
Quote:
It would have to be 2019 1st.


toronto owns clippers first this year
This is how teams viewed Zach Thomas  
Keith : 2/14/2017 1:15 pm : link
when he was on the Knicks.
Where amazing happens! - ( New Window )
RE: I would only want Love  
giantsfan44ab : 2/14/2017 1:16 pm : link
In comment 13360837 bceagle05 said:
Quote:
if we could flip him for picks. This knee injury doesn't help that cause, so I'm not sure this would even make sense from a Knicks standpoint. So we'll probably go ahead and do it.

Someone posted an excerpt from Berman's story today that Phil thinks of KP and Willy as the frontcourt of the future. If Love isn't helping us add 1s, 2s or 3s, I don't see much point in acquiring him.


Is Melo helping us add 1s, 2s or 3s? At least having love gives you that upside. Maybe get what Ibaka got in return. Melo has no upside of that.

For those who think melo will get anything this offseason are ignoring the fact that he's going to be a 34 year old on an expiring contract. Cleveland seems to be the only realistic place he'd waive his clause anyways.

Keeping Melo around next year offers zero upside. Absolutely none. Love at least will be sub-30 with one more year on his deal. He could very well have no trade value (just like Melo). But he also could command some combo of picks/young players (unlike Melo).
Love also has more value  
giantsfan44ab : 2/14/2017 1:20 pm : link
Simply because of no NTC. Whereas a dumb team like Orlando couldn't offer Oladipo for Melo, we would open to ourselves to the magic and the kings of the world.
I really can't see the argument for why  
Keith : 2/14/2017 1:32 pm : link
the Knicks wouldn't do it.
When push comes to shove  
bceagle05 : 2/14/2017 1:37 pm : link
I'd move Melo for Love, mainly because I can't stomach the idea of two more years of this Melo/Phil bullshit, but my ideal scenario was to re-direct Love for a first rounder in this year's draft. Knowing the Knicks luck, I have this fear of Love coming back at the end of the season, blowing out his knee completely, and being an albatross contract for us going forward.
If he did blow his knee out  
Keith : 2/14/2017 1:38 pm : link
it would be completely unrelated to this injury.
RE: I really can't see the argument for why  
giantsfan44ab : 2/14/2017 1:39 pm : link
In comment 13360868 Keith said:
Quote:
the Knicks wouldn't do it.


There is absolutely none. People just want to add to the "typical Knicks move" narrative and it doesn't fit at all.

The benefits are two-fold. Switching Melo for Love (who won't play the rest of the season) all but guarantees you a top 5 pick in this draft. And then the upside of flipping Love next season after showcasing he is healthy for a piece or two to add to KP, Willy and a top 5 pick.

RE: If he did blow his knee out  
giantsfan44ab : 2/14/2017 1:40 pm : link
In comment 13360872 Keith said:
Quote:
it would be completely unrelated to this injury.


Why would they risk playing Love the last week of the season anyways?
I am a knee injury/surgery connoisseur....  
Keith : 2/14/2017 1:45 pm : link
There was no ligament damage to Love, it was all in his meniscus which is the cartilage that sits in your knee and prevents your bones from hitting each other. When the meniscus is torn, there are two options in surgery depending on where the tear is and other factors such as age.

1. Repair-Sometimes the meniscus can be repaired which has a better long term prognosis because the player usually makes a full recovery. The recovery is generally 4-6 months at a minimum, sometimes longer, but you want to make sure this heals right. This is what Rose had.

2. removal-when the knee is scoped and the tear is on the outer edges of the meniscus, it's shaved away or removed. The recovery is much quicker, they are saying 4-6 weeks, but there are plenty of examples of athletes coming back much quicker and longer than the 6 weeks. Marshall Faulk came back in 2 weeks I think. The player comes back quicker and can regain form, but this will cause arthritis as there is no cartilage preventing the bones from hitting. Usually that takes a while to come on, as I've mentioned, it usually effects guys in their mid-late 30's depending on their fitness level.
Does Melo/Toronto want a guaranteed finals appearance?  
giantsfan44ab : 2/14/2017 1:55 pm : link
Waive your NTC for Toronto Melo.

Raptors Get:
Melo
Jennings
KOQ
Holiday

Knicks Get:
Carroll
Powell
Sullinger
Wright
Patterson
Clips 1st rounder
Now you're just wasting  
Keith : 2/14/2017 1:59 pm : link
everyones time!
RE: Now you're just wasting  
giantsfan44ab : 2/14/2017 2:02 pm : link
In comment 13360895 Keith said:
Quote:
everyones time!


You wouldn't do that?
Would prefer Love  
giantsfan44ab : 2/14/2017 2:03 pm : link
Obviously.

Just an alternative.
ok fine..  
Keith : 2/14/2017 2:04 pm : link
1. Melo isn't going to Toronto.
2. Toronto is going to trade half of the team just to get 2017 melo? unlikely.
RE: ok fine..  
giantsfan44ab : 2/14/2017 2:06 pm : link
In comment 13360901 Keith said:
Quote:
1. Melo isn't going to Toronto.
2. Toronto is going to trade half of the team just to get 2017 melo? unlikely.


Not saying it's likely at all.

But if they're half-assing it with Ibaka, they might as well full-ass it. They've had the worst wing rotation amongst all playoff teams in both conferences until today.

Carrol has been awful.
And by wing rotation  
giantsfan44ab : 2/14/2017 2:07 pm : link
I'm obviously excluding Derozan. I mean the 3 and 4 spots.
Credit goes to the commish  
LCtheINTMachine : 2/14/2017 2:08 pm : link
He saw how ridiculous the situation was and stepped in. This was a major embarrassment to the league, especially in New York.

A jackass like David Stern probably would have banned Oakley from every arena in the league.
Don't even get to #2  
Keith : 2/14/2017 2:08 pm : link
until you clear up #1. Melo is not going to Toronto. Clearly winning is not his top priority, he wants to be comfortable, doesn't want to uproot his team and play with his buddies. Toronto offers none of that. His BF's aren't on Toronto. I highly doubt he wants to move his family to Canada.
Consider the source-  
DanMetroMan : 2/14/2017 2:14 pm : link
Incarcerated Bob 🔌 ‏@incarceratedbob 4s4 seconds ago
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Some NBA Rumors:
Celtics & Thunder have interest in Taj Gibson / O'Quinn / Tucker #Suns
Hawks letting teams know @DwightHoward is available
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You need to be banned  
Keith : 2/14/2017 2:15 pm : link
just for posting Incarcerated Bob. Seriously though, whats the point to create fake conversations?
RE: Don't even get to #2  
giantsfan44ab : 2/14/2017 2:19 pm : link
In comment 13360909 Keith said:
Quote:
until you clear up #1. Melo is not going to Toronto. Clearly winning is not his top priority, he wants to be comfortable, doesn't want to uproot his team and play with his buddies. Toronto offers none of that. His BF's aren't on Toronto. I highly doubt he wants to move his family to Canada.


Well yeah lol. It's funny to think about it though. LaLa takes on Toronto. But hey, don't even need to move the family! It's what, a 90 minute trip via private jet/air Canada? That's nothing!


But hey if you're phil why don't you tell Melo to leak it like he's excited what Toronto has to offer, drum up interest and force Clevelands hand to deal Love (or maybe Boston comes back into play with a serious offer).
RE: RE: Don't even get to #2  
EricNY33 : 2/14/2017 2:24 pm : link
In comment 13360925 giantsfan44ab said:
Quote:
In comment 13360909 Keith said:


Quote:


until you clear up #1. Melo is not going to Toronto. Clearly winning is not his top priority, he wants to be comfortable, doesn't want to uproot his team and play with his buddies. Toronto offers none of that. His BF's aren't on Toronto. I highly doubt he wants to move his family to Canada.



Well yeah lol. It's funny to think about it though. LaLa takes on Toronto. But hey, don't even need to move the family! It's what, a 90 minute trip via private jet/air Canada? That's nothing!


But hey if you're phil why don't you tell Melo to leak it like he's excited what Toronto has to offer, drum up interest and force Clevelands hand to deal Love (or maybe Boston comes back into play with a serious offer).


Toronto isn't likely, but Washington could be.
RE: RE: RE: Don't even get to #2  
giantsfan44ab : 2/14/2017 2:39 pm : link
In comment 13360934 EricNY33 said:
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In comment 13360925 giantsfan44ab said:


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In comment 13360909 Keith said:


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until you clear up #1. Melo is not going to Toronto. Clearly winning is not his top priority, he wants to be comfortable, doesn't want to uproot his team and play with his buddies. Toronto offers none of that. His BF's aren't on Toronto. I highly doubt he wants to move his family to Canada.



Well yeah lol. It's funny to think about it though. LaLa takes on Toronto. But hey, don't even need to move the family! It's what, a 90 minute trip via private jet/air Canada? That's nothing!


But hey if you're phil why don't you tell Melo to leak it like he's excited what Toronto has to offer, drum up interest and force Clevelands hand to deal Love (or maybe Boston comes back into play with a serious offer).



Toronto isn't likely, but Washington could be.


Why? Toronto I get making moves like Ibaka because you're going to pay Lowry the max through his mid-30s and even if no one really is going to beat GS you at least have a small shot at taking your team for the Finals for the first time ever.

Don't see why Washington is forced to make a move. John Wall is only 26 and Beal and Porter are both 23. Why not just let your team grow organically? By the time Wall is at his peak (maybe age 30-31) Beal and Porter could be all-stars (probably not Porter, but who knows? Both have gotten better every year in the league and maybe Oubre turns into something) and they will be read to take over the east when Lebron, Lowry and Horford are fading into their twilight years.

Washington should stay the course.
Melo  
DanMetroMan : 2/14/2017 2:40 pm : link
is not being traded.
Everyones hyping  
giantsfan44ab : 2/14/2017 2:40 pm : link
Milwaukee and Philly to be the top teams post Lebron era (admittedly I am too) but Washington could have a couple of years before them.
with another ACL for Parker  
JOMO25 : 2/14/2017 2:42 pm : link
I wouldn't say Milwaukee is a top team
RE: RE: ok fine..  
aimrocky : 2/14/2017 2:45 pm : link
In comment 13360906 giantsfan44ab said:
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In comment 13360901 Keith said:


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1. Melo isn't going to Toronto.
2. Toronto is going to trade half of the team just to get 2017 melo? unlikely.



Not saying it's likely at all.

But if they're half-assing it with Ibaka, they might as well full-ass it. They've had the worst wing rotation amongst all playoff teams in both conferences until today.

Carrol has been awful.


You're a good poster, but please stop acting like the half wits who call into WFAN proposing Melo and a first for the Nets 1st.

All signs point to this being Cleveland or bust. Melo's not waiving his NTC to uproot his family north of the boarder.
RE: Melo  
Greg from LI : 2/14/2017 2:47 pm : link
In comment 13360947 DanMetroMan said:
Quote:
is not being traded.


Beal  
DanMetroMan : 2/14/2017 2:48 pm : link
deserves more love. These guys who slowly improve gradually don't get enough credit. Beal has improved each season, he's sporting a career best eFG% of 559%, career best 19.6 PER, .153 WS/48. The injury concerns are 1000% valid but he's 23 years old. He reminds me of a young Ray Allen.
I think everyone understands Melo is staying.  
bceagle05 : 2/14/2017 2:48 pm : link
The trade deadline is a next week, and it makes for fun conversation, especially if your team sucks. I sure hope Melo staying doesn't prevent Phil from shopping others vets. We can't afford to be delusional here.
RE: with another ACL for Parker  
giantsfan44ab : 2/14/2017 2:48 pm : link
In comment 13360951 JOMO25 said:
Quote:
I wouldn't say Milwaukee is a top team


I'm a Parker fan, but I wouldn't be shocked if Milwaukee is able to find a strong defensive identity with Brogdon, Middleton, Giannis and Maker long term. Despite his talent, he's been the one guy in Mikwaukee's core that really doesn't fit the rest.
RE: RE: RE: ok fine..  
giantsfan44ab : 2/14/2017 2:49 pm : link
In comment 13360953 aimrocky said:
Quote:
In comment 13360906 giantsfan44ab said:


Quote:


In comment 13360901 Keith said:


Quote:


1. Melo isn't going to Toronto.
2. Toronto is going to trade half of the team just to get 2017 melo? unlikely.



Not saying it's likely at all.

But if they're half-assing it with Ibaka, they might as well full-ass it. They've had the worst wing rotation amongst all playoff teams in both conferences until today.

Carrol has been awful.



You're a good poster, but please stop acting like the half wits who call into WFAN proposing Melo and a first for the Nets 1st.

All signs point to this being Cleveland or bust. Melo's not waiving his NTC to uproot his family north of the boarder.


100% was a fantastical trade. Pulled up the trade machine and see what worked. I obviously know he'd never go to Toronto.
I  
DanMetroMan : 2/14/2017 2:51 pm : link
actually find her to mostly be funny (if not 1 note) but ESPN really scraping the bottom of the barrel to have someone who seemingly has no clue about the NBA writing a long piece about the Knicks
Link - ( New Window )
for some reason, ESPN has decided to emphasize the E  
Greg from LI : 2/14/2017 3:10 pm : link
at the expense of the S. It's not entirely them, though, as there has been a trend of injecting a bunch of pop culture horseshit into sports for a while now. Hell, it's the foundation of Bill Simmons' entire career, and the reason why I wasn't a huge fan of Grantland despite the fact that it did have some excellent writers and publish some outstanding pieces. The sports coverage was fine without them shoehorning in a bunch of filler about music or movies or whatever.
Chris  
DanMetroMan : 2/14/2017 3:25 pm : link
Herring drops a sad face on the Knicks
Link - ( New Window )
RE: Chris  
EricNY33 : 2/14/2017 3:31 pm : link
In comment 13360999 DanMetroMan said:
Quote:
Herring drops a sad face on the Knicks Link - ( New Window )


Someone posted this already
Broussard  
DanMetroMan : 2/14/2017 4:33 pm : link
CHRIS: I would say no to your theory, but with this news, it might make me think about it if Im the Cavs in general.

And everybodys talking about Melos contract. Kevin Love has one more year left on his contract than Melo has. Melo only has two years left after that. So his contract is not as bad as Kevin Loves. And in a vacuum, you can argue Melo is a better player.

Its just a lot of upheaval. They would have to play a different style if they bring in Carmelo Anthony. But can you envision them against Golden State? Kyrie, LeBron, J.R. Smith, Carmelo Anthony and Tristan Thompson? I mean, now Durant or Draymond has to guard Melo and LeBron. You know what I mean? One of those guys is going to get a little bit of a break against Love. They wouldnt get a break against Melo.

I dont want to sound like something Im pushing it, because Im really not sure what I would do if I was Cleveland. It just makes it something that I would start to think about now, whereas before it was like, No way.
what a copout  
giants#1 : 2/14/2017 4:42 pm : link
Quote:
I dont want to sound like something Im pushing it, because Im really not sure what I would do if I was Cleveland. It just makes it something that I would start to think about now, whereas before it was like, No way.


If Melo is a better matchup (or at least makes it harder to give someone a 'break' defensively), how was it "no way".
I guess Lebron is getting his media lackeys on the case.  
bceagle05 : 2/14/2017 4:45 pm : link
Broussard is always tops on the list. We'll see if/when Windhorst starts pushing for it.
In what vacuum is Melo  
Keith : 2/14/2017 4:47 pm : link
a better player than Love? That's ludicrous.
RE: RE: RE: RE: RE: Yeah because every move was to  
Enzo : 2/14/2017 4:49 pm : link
In comment 13360838 EricNY33 said:
Quote:
In comment 13360828 nygiants16 said:


Quote:


In comment 13360825 EricNY33 said:



Um... what is the relevance to this conversation?



my point was he fucked up from the start, instead of trying to win games he should of just tanked, sell off every part of that team and tanked..

instead he tried to win games while also cutting salary



Um... he traded Randolph for Cuttino Mobley (who had a heart condition) and Tim "I Have No Heart" Thomas and Crawford for Al Harrington. How is that trying to win? Those guys all were lesser players than what he gave up. The deal I didn't like was the McGrady deal. That one was just silly.

so then why not go all out and tank instead of bringing in a guy like Duhon? Why not subsequently move a guy like Harrington to a contender?
RE: RE: RE: The Knicks were in a weird position.  
Enzo : 2/14/2017 4:55 pm : link
In comment 13360794 Keith said:
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In comment 13360788 Enzo said:


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In comment 13360771 Keith said:


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We had to clear every big salary from the books and not take back any salary into the 2010 season and every single team in the NBA knew exactly what we needed to do. You are trading from a position of weakness when there weren't a lot of teams knocking down the door for the guys that we had. Zach Randolph was a joke with the knicks, literally.


this is just dumb. Walsh unloaded Zach in the fall of 2008 - basically 20 months before Lebron became a free agent. There was no rush - and no need to just dump them the first chance a team offered up expirings for him.



There's a shocking stance!

At the time, without rewriting history and knowing the future, Randolph was considered an albatross and we needed to clear him. My guess is Walsh feared we wouldn't be able to move him for expirings if the didn't do it asap. Randolph was not viewed as a player anyone wanted when he was with the Knicks.

something tells me you don't know dick about how Randolph was viewed at the time. It's amazing how much of a pass you give lousy Knick GMs. It's like Marc Berman taught you everything you know.
I definitely  
Keith : 2/14/2017 4:56 pm : link
don't know as much as you about dicks. Something to shoot for?
RE: In what vacuum is Melo  
nygiants16 : 2/14/2017 4:59 pm : link
In comment 13361088 Keith said:
Quote:
a better player than Love? That's ludicrous.


i am not saying love is a better player bit for the cavs vs warriors melo is a better fit because he can play next to thompson
RE: RE: In what vacuum is Melo  
nygiants16 : 2/14/2017 5:00 pm : link
In comment 13361110 nygiants16 said:
Quote:
In comment 13361088 Keith said:


Quote:


a better player than Love? That's ludicrous.



i am not saying love is a better player bit for the cavs vs warriors melo is a better fit because he can play next to thompson


that should say i am not saying melo is a better player
RE: In what vacuum is Melo  
Deej : 2/14/2017 5:09 pm : link
In comment 13361088 Keith said:
Quote:
a better player than Love? That's ludicrous.


I think in real life Melo is better. Love shoots 43% as the #3 option with a very good PG and one of the 10 greatest players ever (and a great passer) getting him looks. I struggle to conceive of what Love does better than Melo outside of rebounding.

Cant evaluate them in a vacuum. Melo likely becomes more efficient on CLE and Love likely becomes less efficient in NY (there is a counter argument that he and LeBron dont fit correctly due to where they like to shoot from).
RE: I definitely  
dep026 : 2/14/2017 5:11 pm : link
In comment 13361103 Keith said:
Quote:
don't know as much as you about dicks. Something to shoot for?


You dont give yourself enough credit!!! haha

Why argue with him? You know he is going to say the same things about whoever he dislikes time and time and time and time again.
Love also isn't great at creating his own offense  
Greg from LI : 2/14/2017 5:19 pm : link
Melo gives them someone who can generate points on his own, both to take some more of the burden off LBJ and allow them to be more effective when he's on the bench.
RE: I definitely  
Enzo : 2/14/2017 5:57 pm : link
In comment 13361103 Keith said:
Quote:
don't know as much as you about dicks. Something to shoot for?

wow, good one. Maybe shoot for not being completely lost when it comes to the NBA? It's amazing how often you need to be corrected.
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