Only 6 rushing TD's all season!
I know we all knew it was bad, but I didn't realize how bad until I was reminded by this stat.
And the longest run from scrimmage was only 25 yards.
Is it the blockers? The RB's? No, it's both!
It's not real hard to defense a team that can't run the football and has only one truly scary receiver.
The Giants need more playmakers.
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oh my thats bad
Not kidding.. even after that win I couldn't stop thinking about that play
I think I'd like to see if the can beef up the OL via FA.
Holy moly. That's rated R.
Watch the games again on DVR. His pause right when the RB gets the ball in his hands. Do this about 100 times on 100 different plays throughout the season. Then do the same thing when watching a good running team like Dallas. You won't see much of a difference in the holes. You will see a huge difference in the yardage gained.
The Giants RBs were abominable last season. The OL wasn't nearly as bad as the fans insist on believing. I said this all season long.
Jennings was fucking dreadful in 2016. HE danced with he should have zoomed and zoomed when he should have zigged. And he did this time and time again.
That's why any mock I see with the Giants going defense in the first round is a non-starter to me. They aren't going to get all of the help they need in free agency.
Best case is we get Whitworth, maybe Eddie Lacy, and maybe a complement WR like a Robert Woods or Brandon LaFell.
Otherwise, we need good offensive players in this draft. We need a good WR, a young, talented RB, a good OL, and maybe that stud TE everybody seems to want.
Need to get better on the line and more playmakers. We need at least 2 more legitimate playmakers, and one of them HAS to be at the WR position across from OBJ.
The good news is we hopefully are getting Will Johnson back, and that should help the run game as well as give another receiving option for the flat and so forth.
Brief aside re. the last championship season: an often-overlooked detail about the Giants' generally-sh!tty running game in 2011 is that Bradshaw and Jacobs ran tough near the goal line, combining for 16 rushing touchdowns. As miserable as the ground attack was that year, it at least took some pressure off Eli in the red zone.
I've said here a bunch that our biggest need is for a TE that can get up the seam and catch passes but an almost equally glaring need is a running back that can make plays or wear down a defense, or preferably, both.
Now I know we don't have a particularly good offensive line but John Madden used to say that a good running back could make a bad offensive line look good. Our backs - all of them really - were absolutely pathetic at making plays. None of them could make plays in the hole, none could get outside and upfield for big chunks of yards and none could make plays catching the ball out of the backfield.
RB is serious need for this offense.
Brief aside re. the last championship season: an often-overlooked detail about the Giants' generally-sh!tty running game in 2011 is that Bradshaw and Jacobs ran tough near the goal line, combining for 16 rushing touchdowns. As miserable as the ground attack was that year, it at least took some pressure off Eli in the red zone.
Thanks, I didn't realize that.
In addition to a tough-nosed RB I'd love to see taller quality TE who could be a realistic target in the red zone too. Not that Eli didn't have his problems, but he really didn't have a hell of lot of weapons inside the 20.
That's why any mock I see with the Giants going defense in the first round is a non-starter to me.
Jim, that's silly. If JPP is gone and there's a good pass rusher there at #23, he should be picked.
Our Tight Ends can't block and our wideouts have issues blocking downfield. Its a miracle we won 11 games. Imagine how far we could have gone with an offense.
Brief aside re. the last championship season: an often-overlooked detail about the Giants' generally-sh!tty running game in 2011 is that Bradshaw and Jacobs ran tough near the goal line, combining for 16 rushing touchdowns. As miserable as the ground attack was that year, it at least took some pressure off Eli in the red zone.
The running backs as a whole had 10 TDs in '15 and 7 TDs in '16. They went down 1 in the rushing game, but they went from 5 to 1 in the receiving game. I think that is the more notable stat. Vereen going down hurt us more than people realize. He was our best RB by FAR and would have added a lot more production than we had.
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They had just 5 the previous year.
Brief aside re. the last championship season: an often-overlooked detail about the Giants' generally-sh!tty running game in 2011 is that Bradshaw and Jacobs ran tough near the goal line, combining for 16 rushing touchdowns. As miserable as the ground attack was that year, it at least took some pressure off Eli in the red zone.
The running backs as a whole had 10 TDs in '15 and 7 TDs in '16. They went down 1 in the rushing game, but they went from 5 to 1 in the receiving game. I think that is the more notable stat. Vereen going down hurt us more than people realize. He was our best RB by FAR and would have added a lot more production than we had.
I like Vereen and think he's a good RB. But hasn't he had a difficult injury history throughout his NFL career?
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In comment 13361058 Big Blue Blogger said:
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They had just 5 the previous year.
Brief aside re. the last championship season: an often-overlooked detail about the Giants' generally-sh!tty running game in 2011 is that Bradshaw and Jacobs ran tough near the goal line, combining for 16 rushing touchdowns. As miserable as the ground attack was that year, it at least took some pressure off Eli in the red zone.
The running backs as a whole had 10 TDs in '15 and 7 TDs in '16. They went down 1 in the rushing game, but they went from 5 to 1 in the receiving game. I think that is the more notable stat. Vereen going down hurt us more than people realize. He was our best RB by FAR and would have added a lot more production than we had.
I like Vereen and think he's a good RB. But hasn't he had a difficult injury history throughout his NFL career?
I'm not saying Vereen is the answer. I'm also concerned about his ability to play every down. (He and Darkwa are similar to me, in that they seem like higher ceiling players than the other guys, but they don't look like they can play down in and out without being carted off the field.) I'm just saying, we didn't have quality backs last year, and our best guy wasn't on the field. I like the idea of bringing in Latavius Murray and drafting Donnel Pumphrey.
Pumphrey is a receiving back who can line up in the slot. He's TINY though. And that's a major concern. But, if he can put on weight, he can be a Sproles kind of play maker. I also like bringing Vereen back as insurance (and if they can restructure that'd be ideal).
Murray and Perkins would carry the load. Vereen would be the third down and RZ back until they feel Pumphrey can handle those aspects himself.
If a defensive player is FAR AND AWAY the BPA in the 1st then pick him and make that unit even stronger. But the near fixation on a 3rd WR is not the way to go imho.
If a defensive player is FAR AND AWAY the BPA in the 1st then pick him and make that unit even stronger. But the near fixation on a 3rd WR is not the way to go imho.
I like Shepard a lot! He's a competent slot WR, and he may stay decidely competent for the remainder of his career. But he's not one who scares D's. The Giants need another outside WR who can. I can't agree that they're set with the personnel they have now.
I see an opportunity in this draft to come away with both WR and RB. AND a TE.
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That's why any mock I see with the Giants going defense in the first round is a non-starter to me.
Jim, that's silly. If JPP is gone and there's a good pass rusher there at #23, he should be picked.
First, I think they won't let that happen. JPP is going to get done (I really hope). Second, it would have to be a tremendous value, and I'm a BPA guy. But Okwara has played well, there's still Kerry Wynn (I know, not inspiring), and perhaps O-Diggy turns it on in year 3... but mainly, if JPP signs elsewhere, we'll get another DE in free agency, I think. Calais Campbell, Jabaal Sheard, or Devin Taylor, as examples.
Holy shit I could have made 5 yards on that
mattlawson : 3:40 pm : link : reply
And also why Perkins overtook the role at the end of the season and was perceived to do much better
I remember the same play call with Perkins as the RB, and the result was the same...it looked like it was designed to go left, which both runners did, but if either had any vision, they would have seen the gap up the middle.....that play was made for Tiki...even so, "holes" like that were few and far between with this OL....
I couldn't disagree with your statement more. They have OBJ, Shep, and question marks. If OBJ were to go down, they'd easily field the worst WR group in the entire NFL. Even with OBJ, who is surely a top 3 receiver in the NFL, the lack of a quality WR opposite the field of him CLEARLY handcuffs what the offense can do. Without any legitimate threat on the other side, OBJ is very much hindered from being used to his full potential, as defenses can stick one guy on the other receiver (this year being Cruz), and focus all the safety help, and many times underneath help with a dropping 'backer, to limit big plays from Odell.
You need at least 3 good to very good receivers from a talent perspective in today's NFL. Right now, the Giants receiver group is probably in the bottom five in the NFL as a group. It can't all be on Odell. And yes, Shep is a nice complementary player with a good future. But he's a slot guy all day long and that doesn't really open the field for OBJ at all. The third best receiver on this team is probably Tavarres King. And sure I'd like to see him get more opportunity, but I think we all know you can't count on him as an NFL starter right away.
WR is absolutely an enormous need on this team, and I'd argue it's the biggest need of any position on the field, even more than LT or RG. Not only do they need one WR to start opposite Odell, I think they are in need of another one after that to groom. I would hit it with free agency and the draft, because you absolutely must get a player there. I can't understand any argument that doesn't recognize that position as a major problem, and one that SIGNIFICANTLY held the Giants' offense back in 2016.
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But they're a LOT more set there than many other positions. I have no objections to drafting one later on, but not in the first two rounds.
I couldn't disagree with your statement more. They have OBJ, Shep, and question marks. If OBJ were to go down, they'd easily field the worst WR group in the entire NFL. Even with OBJ, who is surely a top 3 receiver in the NFL, the lack of a quality WR opposite the field of him CLEARLY handcuffs what the offense can do. Without any legitimate threat on the other side, OBJ is very much hindered from being used to his full potential, as defenses can stick one guy on the other receiver (this year being Cruz), and focus all the safety help, and many times underneath help with a dropping 'backer, to limit big plays from Odell.
You need at least 3 good to very good receivers from a talent perspective in today's NFL. Right now, the Giants receiver group is probably in the bottom five in the NFL as a group. It can't all be on Odell. And yes, Shep is a nice complementary player with a good future. But he's a slot guy all day long and that doesn't really open the field for OBJ at all. The third best receiver on this team is probably Tavarres King. And sure I'd like to see him get more opportunity, but I think we all know you can't count on him as an NFL starter right away.
WR is absolutely an enormous need on this team, and I'd argue it's the biggest need of any position on the field, even more than LT or RG. Not only do they need one WR to start opposite Odell, I think they are in need of another one after that to groom. I would hit it with free agency and the draft, because you absolutely must get a player there. I can't understand any argument that doesn't recognize that position as a major problem, and one that SIGNIFICANTLY held the Giants' offense back in 2016.
+1
Ideally, a big receiver would be the guy to come in. But, if a guy like John Ross falls to 23 and they think he can play out wide. He'd be a huge lift to our O. People vastly underestimate how much the TEs, RBs, and WRs stunted our O production. Flowers and Hart weren't good. But, we could have scored if we had more than two play makers.
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In comment 13361008 Vin R said:
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oh my thats bad
Not kidding.. even after that win I couldn't stop thinking about that play
Have you guys played football? Rashad was about to hit the hole and richburg didn't anchor his block the DT saw Jennings cut back and flashed on the inside. Jennings saw that and cut back and was tackled. I wouldn't site this run as a microcosm of the run game. It happens a defender flashes the runner sees that and adjusts. He made a mistake but richburg wasn't able to pivot and doesn't have the strength. That's what that run showed me
That looks bad, but upon further investigation, what looks like a huge hole on the right, really isn't. Richburg didn't have his guy bottled up. Richburg's guy is pivoting to wherever Jennings pivots since Richburg doesn't have his guy locked up...look at it slowly...you see Jennings went right, and the Dallas defender easily pivots to cover the hole, then Jennings tries to juke, but the defender has that bottled up as well.
I will say this, if Jennings were a better lateral runner, he could have hit that on the right, but the guys that could have slid to the right in that limited window of time are few and far between. It's a fast game
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But they're a LOT more set there than many other positions. I have no objections to drafting one later on, but not in the first two rounds.
I couldn't disagree with your statement more. They have OBJ, Shep, and question marks. If OBJ were to go down, they'd easily field the worst WR group in the entire NFL. Even with OBJ, who is surely a top 3 receiver in the NFL, the lack of a quality WR opposite the field of him CLEARLY handcuffs what the offense can do. Without any legitimate threat on the other side, OBJ is very much hindered from being used to his full potential, as defenses can stick one guy on the other receiver (this year being Cruz), and focus all the safety help, and many times underneath help with a dropping 'backer, to limit big plays from Odell.
You need at least 3 good to very good receivers from a talent perspective in today's NFL. Right now, the Giants receiver group is probably in the bottom five in the NFL as a group. It can't all be on Odell. And yes, Shep is a nice complementary player with a good future. But he's a slot guy all day long and that doesn't really open the field for OBJ at all. The third best receiver on this team is probably Tavarres King. And sure I'd like to see him get more opportunity, but I think we all know you can't count on him as an NFL starter right away.
WR is absolutely an enormous need on this team, and I'd argue it's the biggest need of any position on the field, even more than LT or RG. Not only do they need one WR to start opposite Odell, I think they are in need of another one after that to groom. I would hit it with free agency and the draft, because you absolutely must get a player there. I can't understand any argument that doesn't recognize that position as a major problem, and one that SIGNIFICANTLY held the Giants' offense back in 2016.
IMHO 1 good TE who can BLOCK will do more for this offense than a 3rd WR. Talk about holding the Giants defense back, how much did the hole at TE hold back BOTH the run game and the pass game? Injuries are hypothetical (although less so for the Giants than many other teams) but the lack of a true #1 TE is a reality regardless of injuries.
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In comment 13361013 Joey in VA said:
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In comment 13361008 Vin R said:
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oh my thats bad
Not kidding.. even after that win I couldn't stop thinking about that play
Have you guys played football? Rashad was about to hit the hole and richburg didn't anchor his block the DT saw Jennings cut back and flashed on the inside. Jennings saw that and cut back and was tackled. I wouldn't site this run as a microcosm of the run game. It happens a defender flashes the runner sees that and adjusts. He made a mistake but richburg wasn't able to pivot and doesn't have the strength. That's what that run showed me
Yes. And Rashad still should've hit that hole, the option he chose was absurd - don't be ridiculous
they need to get a threat at TE every team in the division is better than the giants at this right now fells was a huge loss and wasnt addressed sufficiently they need to address this round 1 minimum 2nd round this year if they want the offence to help the defence out more
But, why I rant about 'Pugh to OLT and drafting guards 1,2' is also: that we need bigger, tougher guards, ones who have all the skills that a Pugh has, but +20lbs or more. and those go high.
Then, there are players like this:
CBS on Isaak Asiata 6'3" 325lbs
''Strengths Weaknesses
STRENGTHS: Sports an imposing frame with broad shoulders and thick limbs. Much more athletic than his build would suggest, showing impressive initial quickness and agility in pass protection and while pulling in the running game. Fires off the ball, showing terrific burst and hip snap to explode into opponents with his initial contact on the down block to create movement in short yardage situations. Delivers a powerful initial strike in pass protection and when helping teammates, often knocking down opponents with a well-timed shove. Plays on the balls of his feet and his knees bent to absorb bull rushers and can mirror quicker pass rushers. Good anticipation of stunts and "surprise" blitzes, showing lateral agility and a late burst to recover. Good bloodlines. Is the cousin of Minnesota Vikings running back Matt Asiata. ''
But, why I rant about 'Pugh to OLT and drafting guards 1,2' is also: that we need bigger, tougher guards, ones who have all the skills that a Pugh has, but +20lbs or more. and those go high.
John Jerry goes 340.
I'm not opposed to upgrading the OL, it needs it, but the club also lacks offensive playmakers, and I don't know that I wouldn't rather see much of the OL needs addressed in FA.
I am talking about athletes with tackle level football skills, athletics and acumen but in "guard bodies" i.e. shorter, heavier, lower center of gravity and even quicker off the snap within the idea of lowness.
I am talking about athletes with tackle level football skills, athletics and acumen but in "guard bodies" i.e. shorter, heavier, lower center of gravity and even quicker off the snap within the idea of lowness.
I agree, my only point being that big and strong isn't a guaranty of itself of a superior OL. And when these kids are in school, it can be really hard to predict which ones will be able to translate their play into the NFL. Very high rate of college OL's who were great in school but were mediocre or outright busts in the NFL.