Sunroof lets you search for your house, suggests how large a solar array you might consider putting on your roof, and estimates how much energy it will generate—as well as how much it would cost to lease or buy the panels.
It’s a handy tool, and comes at a good time. Solar has been growing quickly in the U.S., with installations nearly doubling over the course of 2016. But most of that is on the utility scale—residential installations grew just 19 percent last year, mostly because demand is drying up in big state markets like California.
|
Link - ( New Window )
The website linked estimated 18 years for my house just to break even.
They need to. $15k-$20k is too much upfront cost for most homeowners, especially when factoring in the age of the roof itself. I'll wait a while but definitely want to someday.
here is an op-ed piece but it's pretty compelling.
Feb
21
Solar energy is a bad investment for homeowners
William O'Keefe:
...
Power for the USA a website by Donn Dears has recently published a piece that concluded on the basis of data from the Project Sunroof website that payback periods for a number of cities range from 13 to 27 years. Dear’s points out that, “An acceptable financial payback is usually less than 3 years. Any investment that requires more than 3 years is probably not a good investment. Payback periods of 6 years or more are bad investments.” Why would a homeowner invest in a system that doesn’t make economic sense?
The answer comes from Congress in the form of generous subsidies for purchasers of solar panels—30% of the purchase price.
The alternative energy tax credit is a classic example of stealing from the many to benefit the few who are financial entrepreneurs. These are the solar manufacturers who only survive because of subsidies and the Wall Street magicians who are ingenious in figuring ways to make money.
Here is how taxpayers get fleeced. Solar manufacturers and some Wall Street firms lease the solar systems to homeowners for a price that is slightly less than the cost of energy from the local utility. In exchange, the lease-holder gets the 30% tax credit. The lease holder also makes money by selling excess power back to the utility through a program called net metering.
Wall Street firms, like Goldman Sachs, set up LLCs to own the systems and collect homeowner lease payments. Once the system’s cost is repaid, the lease-holder’s profit skyrockets. As these systems age, they become less reliable and more costly to maintain, so the Wall Street firms bundle them into solar backed securities, which they sell to get them off of their books. The purchasers end up holding a security of questionable value.
...
Despite the drop prices and the incentives, the payback period is in many cases longer than the useful life of the system. This something I noticed nearly 20 years ago when I was building my house and the drop in prices has not really changed that dynamic. Homeowners who have bought into these packages have also found that it makes their homes harder to resell during the term of the lease.
Quote:
He thinks costs will continue to come down significantly.
They need to. $15k-$20k is too much upfront cost for most homeowners, especially when factoring in the age of the roof itself. I'll wait a while but definitely want to someday.
We signed with Solar City last year. No upfront costs. You lease the panels.
Quote:
In comment 13399000 Ira said:
Quote:
He thinks costs will continue to come down significantly.
They need to. $15k-$20k is too much upfront cost for most homeowners, especially when factoring in the age of the roof itself. I'll wait a while but definitely want to someday.
We signed with Solar City last year. No upfront costs. You lease the panels.
Same experience I had with Sungevity and the countless other solar companies cold calling and walking up to my door.
In this case though - it's like the article I pasted above THEY (Solar City) are the lease holder and reap the tax benefit, they too are the ones who sell the excess energy back to the utility.
You are just leasing them roof space for no cost other than a slight reduction in your electric bill.
And if you sign that lease it can prevent legit buyers from qualifying because they have to take over the lease.
It doesn't help with your appraisal. And it sure doesn't look like the savings is big enough to justify buying it.
It's a relatively straightforward system. The purchase is complicated somewhat by the specifics of net metering and the incentives, but to hear these guys explain it buying it outright is more complicated than cornering the derivatives market. Definitely doesn't pay for them when you just pay for the system yourself.
Space is a factor. I'm not suggesting you can generate electricity cheaper on a larger scale, but from the utility perspective if the equipment costs were to drop a bit then the biggest limiting factor would be real estate.
The website linked estimated 18 years for my house just to break even.
Yeah I checked mine and it was nineteen years to break even and a saving of one thousand after twenty years and that's assuming not maintenance/replacement cost within that period of time.
To net a thousand dollar "savings" after 20 years and then have an old system probably in need of being updated is a horrible return on a 25k "investment"
A few reasons:
1) People want power when the sun isn't shining.
2) Power demand fluctuates and thus a power source that can be ramped up and down on demand is required. Sunshine isn't controllable.
3) Your costs don't include costs that a utility must bear, in particular maintaining s large distribution system. The price your utility charges includes a lot more than the cost to generate power.
That said, as noted above many utilities are installing large scale solar arrays. It won't be the bulk of their power source, but it can be a nice slice of the pie.
Costs 3.80 per watt for example
5000w * 3.80 =$19000
Fed ITC - $5700
State Tax Credit - $4750
NYC Prop Tax Abatement - $3800
Net Cost = $5050
This system will produce approximately 6000kwhs
Current NYC Coned rates are $.25/kwh
So you'd save $1500/year.
Insane payback. With systems that can last 30+ years you'd be crazy not to do it.
No upfront cash means you can still finance it, the best part? The loan payment is still less than your utility bill! If you qualify for solar and you live in NYC, the time is now. Fed ITC is stepping down. The Property tax abatement goes away in 2019.
You still get the state and tax abatement with leased systems too.
Let me know if you have any questions.
SRECS can be volatile, but you can contract for 5 year blocks.
5kw system @ $3.40/w
5000w * $3.40 = $17000
Fed ITc - $5100
Net Cost = $11900
Kentucky's kwh rate is likely around $.10/kwh
6000kwhs * .10 = $600/year savings
Thats a 19.8 year payback - makes no sense.
The website linked estimated 18 years for my house just to break even.
Exactly... surprised yours is an 18yr payback because on average it is 7 which is still too long. The government provides some subsidies but the solar companies inflate the costs even with the subsidies so that the payback is 7 years.
As far as I am concerned, the gov't has not taken solar seriously yet. All you need to do is look at florida. No solar allowed.... in the fucking sunshine state because the utility companies are in the pockets of the politicians.
Off grid is really for people in the woods that don't have a power cable getting to them.
There is battery tech coming out, but its still too expensive for most. Especially if you are talking about powering your entire home and not just emergency loads.
If you are thinking of replacing your roof and you live in NYC, then yes its worth it. Other areas, depends.
Costs 3.80 per watt for example
5000w * 3.80 =$19000
Fed ITC - $5700
State Tax Credit - $4750
NYC Prop Tax Abatement - $3800
Net Cost = $5050
This system will produce approximately 6000kwhs
Current NYC Coned rates are $.25/kwh
So you'd save $1500/year.
Insane payback. With systems that can last 30+ years you'd be crazy not to do it.
No upfront cash means you can still finance it, the best part? The loan payment is still less than your utility bill! If you qualify for solar and you live in NYC, the time is now. Fed ITC is stepping down. The Property tax abatement goes away in 2019.
You still get the state and tax abatement with leased systems too.
Let me know if you have any questions.
Jim - for NYC, any idea what the best way to go about engaging a company is? I would rather buy than lease. Do I work through Con Ed, call Solar City, is there some other way that makes more sense?
Insulate, weatherstrip, switch to high efficiency lights, turn the heat down, etc etc can all bring immediate, yet incremental savings.
That being said, the government has done a spectacular job of making solar energy so crazy and convoluted that it takes a genius to figure out if it's a good or bad investment.
Too much greed and too many bad actors in the industry right now. It is a shame.
This has been eliminated with the adoption of universal fire setbacks put into place in 2016 in NY state.
And think twice about paying lease pAyyments in advance. I saw one deal tank because the seller wanted to be reimbursed for thousands in lease payments to Solar City they had made in advance and the buyer felt they had paid for the system in the purchase price.
While the conflict was obvious (to me - though no one else noticed or looked up the author), but I could find zero inaccuracies with his statement, which I mentioned was op-ed. And 100% consistent with my experience. There is a big solar push here in MA, you can't walk in to Lowe's or HD without being hit up by a couple aggressive solar sales reps and they literally walk the streets knocking on doors (which is illegal in my town) and cold call people. So, I've been down the solar road a couple times. Same story at the end.
It's just not a good investment and isn't even that "green" yet.
I do like the Tesla solar tiles, those are bad ass, and I believe once those hit the market for the masses we might see something more consumer based.
If I lived in MA, I;d go with a loan to purchase solar since theoretically the SRECs would offset a huge % of the loan payments every year making you cash flow positive right away.
Eventually the loan paymenst stop but the SRECs do not. Nor will the savings. Again, Im not an expert in MA, but anywhere with SRECs in their market should look at the math on a loan.