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NFT: "Better Call Saul" S3-E2 **spoilers**

BlackLight : 4/18/2017 4:08 am
So here's where I'm confused. Last week, Ernie accidentally hears Jimmy confess on Chuck's tape recorder. Chuck makes it absolutely clear to Ernie that he's can't tell anyone.

But this week, Chuck is working this angle, the success of which relies on Jimmy finding out about the tape, and breaking into Chuck's house to destroy it. How does Chuck imagine that Jimmy will even find out about the tape, if he told Ernie to keep quiet about it? Is there a detail here that's so obvious that I'm missing it?
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Chuck suspected that Ernie was involved in this plot,  
shockeyisthebest8056 : 4/18/2017 4:59 am : link
so Ernie hearing the tape was on purpose. The interesting thing is if Ernie said nothing at all to Kim/Jimmy, the whole thing would've blown over as Howard didn't want to use the initial tape and also wanted to pull the plug on the PIs. It also doesn't help that Jimmy flipped out and walked directly into Chuck's trap.

I know Jimmy damn near got Chuck killed, but Chuck is still a contemptible POS.

VICTOR!!!!!!
"The M is a little crooked."  
shockeyisthebest8056 : 4/18/2017 5:12 am : link
...
found a analyze site.  
madgiantscow009 : 4/18/2017 5:47 am : link
goes episode by episode.
Link - ( New Window )
RE: found a analyze site.  
madgiantscow009 : 4/18/2017 5:48 am : link
In comment 13432116 madgiantscow009 said:
Quote:
goes episode by episode. Link - ( New Window )


*an
RE:  
chopperhatch : 4/18/2017 5:50 am : link
In comment 13432107 shockeyisthebest8056 said:
Quote:
...


Well played. Hadnt noticed that
what does Chuck bring to the table?  
fkap : 4/18/2017 8:23 am : link
it has been suggested that he's some sort of super mind, a god amongst mere mortal lawyers. One can understand why Jimmy puts up with him, as he's family, but there is no reason anyone else in the legal profession would put up with his obvious mental deficiencies. He has yet to show any sign of superior lawyer wit. He doesn't wow clients, if he even sees them. He doesn't do anything other than shriek at the thought of electronic rays. I'm thinking in any sane scenario, he'd be kicked out of any legal firm, with all efforts being made to protect the firm from any actions on the part of Chuck.

The only reason he's here is to play the part of Jimmy's kryptonite. Jimmy is obviously a quality mind, but he goes insane around Chuck. The show goes overboard pointing out how Jimmy knows people. Witness his ability to suss out a superior secretary with a single question. Witness his ability to con just about anyone. But he can't figure out Chuck, and down the line (spoiler alert), he can't figure out Walt.
Chuck's obviously a con man just like Jimmy  
jcn56 : 4/18/2017 8:48 am : link
just with better credentials.
Anybody else notice  
B in ALB : 4/18/2017 9:10 am : link
when the mexican guy is making his first dropoff at LPH that there was a blue Volvo station wagon in the parking lot? Thought that was a really nice touch.
The first 16 minutes of the episode  
pjcas18 : 4/18/2017 9:29 am : link
had a handful of words. You had the guys running surveillance/pickups and their "boss" bring them coffee and one other bit of dialog (maybe Jimmy and Kim brief exchange). 16 minutes pretty much of watching Mike run surveillance on the guys who were surveilling him and note the locations of their pickups.

and it was riveting. People who don't like slow plots would not have liked last night's episode.
Show is awesome  
Giants in 07 : 4/18/2017 9:47 am : link
I didn't realize that the paralegal he hires is the same woman that works for him when he becomes Saul.
My heart was pumping at the end  
David in LA : 4/18/2017 12:39 pm : link
I wonder what will happen to Chuck, Howard, and Kim.
RE: Show is awesome  
mitch300 : 4/18/2017 12:47 pm : link
In comment 13432276 Giants in 07 said:
Quote:
I didn't realize that the paralegal he hires is the same woman that works for him when he becomes Saul.

I was wondering if that was her. I couldn't remember.
No matter what Chuck is trying to do to Jimmy, we know he is found not guilty. I would assume if he was guilty of charges he would lose his license to practice law and then we wouldn't get Saul.
RE: Chuck suspected that Ernie was involved in this plot,  
BlackLight : 4/18/2017 12:50 pm : link
In comment 13432106 shockeyisthebest8056 said:
Quote:
so Ernie hearing the tape was on purpose. The interesting thing is if Ernie said nothing at all to Kim/Jimmy, the whole thing would've blown over as Howard didn't want to use the initial tape and also wanted to pull the plug on the PIs. It also doesn't help that Jimmy flipped out and walked directly into Chuck's trap.

I know Jimmy damn near got Chuck killed, but Chuck is still a contemptible POS.

VICTOR!!!!!!


For what reason did Chuck have for thinking that Ernie was in on the plot with Jimmy?
One of my favorite episodes of the series  
Sonic Youth : 4/18/2017 12:51 pm : link
The plots are starting to all thicken. Seeing Gus back in the story was also awesome.
And SUCH a gut punch at the end  
Sonic Youth : 4/18/2017 12:51 pm : link
Honestly, Fuck Chuck
RE: what does Chuck bring to the table?  
BlackLight : 4/18/2017 1:01 pm : link
In comment 13432173 fkap said:
Quote:
it has been suggested that he's some sort of super mind, a god amongst mere mortal lawyers. One can understand why Jimmy puts up with him, as he's family, but there is no reason anyone else in the legal profession would put up with his obvious mental deficiencies. He has yet to show any sign of superior lawyer wit. He doesn't wow clients, if he even sees them. He doesn't do anything other than shriek at the thought of electronic rays. I'm thinking in any sane scenario, he'd be kicked out of any legal firm, with all efforts being made to protect the firm from any actions on the part of Chuck.

The only reason he's here is to play the part of Jimmy's kryptonite. Jimmy is obviously a quality mind, but he goes insane around Chuck. The show goes overboard pointing out how Jimmy knows people. Witness his ability to suss out a superior secretary with a single question. Witness his ability to con just about anyone. But he can't figure out Chuck, and down the line (spoiler alert), he can't figure out Walt.


I don't know for sure, but it might be that easy to get rid of a founding partner to a law firm.
RE: RE: what does Chuck bring to the table?  
BlackLight : 4/18/2017 1:08 pm : link
In comment 13432631 BlackLight said:


I don't know for sure, but it might be that easy to get rid of a founding partner to a law firm. [/quote]

Might not be, rather.
fkap  
Daniel in MI : 4/18/2017 2:01 pm : link
I think we have to remember Chuck wasn't always like he is. He was an outstanding lawyer, he was a great legal and strategic mind, and he created precedent setting decisions and brought in clients. The electronic stuff/mental illness came later. But, he's still damn good when he wants to be. When he decided to take Mesa Verde from Kim he did it fairly easily, and would have succeeded had Jimmy not doctored the paperwork. It's a small town and pretty small firm still, by corporate standards, they're not going to jettison a named partner who may have a lot of (even possibly controlling) financial vestment in the firm.

It's easy to hate Chuck. We like Jimmy and have history with him. He's smooth, funny, charming, and the underdog of the show to date. But, we have to remember from Chuck's perspective - Jimmy stole from his father, always cut corners, always got by on charm and BS, and worst of all breaks the law Chuck lives to serve. He's not entirely wrong about all that.

Jimmy is a con man. He obeys the law when convenient to use it, but dodges it when it's not. He lies to people as a matter of course if it suits him. He can do great damage, like letting meth cooks and scumbags get off. Chuck sees that. ("...a chimp with a machine gun.") It just so happens Chuck is an uptight, arrogant, spiteful ass who needs to always be right. But he's not wrong.
He clearly  
Rflairr : 4/18/2017 2:22 pm : link
Knew Ernie would tell him. This isn't the first time Ernie, showed his loyalty to Jimmy when it comes to Chuck
It's another  
mrvax : 4/18/2017 2:28 pm : link
in the outstanding drama genre. Doesn't seem to move too slow for me b/c I find the "slow" moments very interesting.

In fact, trying to follow along with Mike chasing the bad guy all over the place made me feel "slow".
Jimmy is constantly trying to  
B in ALB : 4/18/2017 2:32 pm : link
do penance with Chuck for his past sins. He's constantly worried about Chuck's opinion and tries his best to take care of his brother. But Chuck consistently rebuffs Jimmy and makes him feel small - like a failure and an embarrassment. There is some deep-rooted resentment that Chuck cannot get over or forget about. He holds a grudge against his brother and it's infuriating to watch because he's so smug and pathetic at the same time.

Great show. And it's also very interesting to see Mike so vulnerable at the hands of Gus. You didn't see any indication that Mike would ever make a mistake in BB (other than his last episode with WW). He's sort of learning on the job right now and it's fascinating.
RE: Anybody else notice  
mfsd : 4/18/2017 3:07 pm : link
In comment 13432224 B in ALB said:
Quote:
when the mexican guy is making his first dropoff at LPH that there was a blue Volvo station wagon in the parking lot? Thought that was a really nice touch.


That's awesome...I feel like I catch only about 50% of those little nuggets
Daniel,  
fkap : 4/18/2017 4:43 pm : link
that's the premise. I agree.
I simply don't see it. they don't show him at all being some sort of super lawyer. Granted, they depict the partner as a total buffoon, so maybe Chuck is needed to keep the firm alive, but Chuck does not show any real ability. He did have his moment with Mesa Verde, but I thought the whole thing was hokey.

Don't mean to be a nay sayer. I'm on the fence regarding the show. at times, it is brilliant. other times, it's a real snooze. I see Chuck as more of a character on the show who is there to serve a purpose rather than being an integral part of the show. a McGuffet, as Alfred Hitchcock put it, something which doesn't need to make sense, but an object to work a plot around.
I thought the most telling thing about Chuck  
fkap : 4/18/2017 4:53 pm : link
was him going through the diatribe of how he knows his brother, he is so damn smart, Jimmy will come at night, because Chuck knows....Jimmy kicks in the door in broad daylight. Wrong and right at the same time. bamboozle and plain lucky at the same time. Jimmy is honest in knowing he's a hustler. Chuck doesn't realize what a hustler he (Chuck) is.

It's obvious how Jimmy becomes Saul. How Mike gets to be Mike. the main point of interest is how they write off Chuck and Kim and get on with the show.

I waver on between thinking Kim  
B in ALB : 4/18/2017 5:07 pm : link
is pretty damn hot to pretty damn ordinary. What's the consensus from the BBI lotharios?
I dont remember the particulars  
Steve in Greenwich : 4/18/2017 5:11 pm : link
but I remember there being a request from Jimmy on his brothers behalf to cash out Chuck due to his mental condition and Howard fights it as Chuck's money due would financially ruin the firm. So basically they can not let him leave / disassociate themselves no matter how bad he is mentally.
RE: Daniel,  
shockeyisthebest8056 : 4/18/2017 5:25 pm : link
In comment 13433150 fkap said:
Quote:
that's the premise. I agree.
I simply don't see it. they don't show him at all being some sort of super lawyer. Granted, they depict the partner as a total buffoon, so maybe Chuck is needed to keep the firm alive, but Chuck does not show any real ability. He did have his moment with Mesa Verde, but I thought the whole thing was hokey.

Don't mean to be a nay sayer. I'm on the fence regarding the show. at times, it is brilliant. other times, it's a real snooze. I see Chuck as more of a character on the show who is there to serve a purpose rather than being an integral part of the show. a McGuffet, as Alfred Hitchcock put it, something which doesn't need to make sense, but an object to work a plot around.


When we're dealing with a character who's left his home perhaps 5 times and struggles mightily with a syndrome, when do you expect to see evidence of him being a "super lawyer"? More importantly, WHY do you need to see this? I also completely disagree that Howard is a "total buffoon". I do agree that Chuck is there to serve a purpose (making Jimmy into Saul), but your complaints about the character don't seem particularly important or difficult to overcome IMO.
RE: I waver on between thinking Kim  
mitch300 : 4/18/2017 5:30 pm : link
In comment 13433199 B in ALB said:
Quote:
is pretty damn hot to pretty damn ordinary. What's the consensus from the BBI lotharios?


Hot to cute. It depends on the angel, shot she is in.
angle  
mitch300 : 4/18/2017 5:30 pm : link
.
RE: I waver on between thinking Kim  
BlackLight : 4/18/2017 7:27 pm : link
In comment 13433199 B in ALB said:
Quote:
is pretty damn hot to pretty damn ordinary. What's the consensus from the BBI lotharios?


She's "business-hot."
It's pretty clear that Chuck's days as a super-lawyer  
BlackLight : 4/18/2017 7:41 pm : link
were before the events in the series began. He's a founding partner of a law firm housed in a large, impressive building. That doesn't just "happen."

Even if he wasn't skating by on reputation at this point, if he's an equity partner in his firm (which he almost certainly is), then getting rid of him isn't as simple as getting rid of the janitor.
fkap  
Daniel in MI : 4/18/2017 10:30 pm : link
McGuffin is the term and it's something that drives the plot but isn't important in and of itself, it's usually something off screen being sought after or that causes something to have to happen. Chuck is more of a foil, I think. There to counter point Jimmy.

As someone else said, the show picks up well after his super lawyer days are over, so you won't see it now. To me, Jimmy is also Chuck's Kryptonite. He can't let it go. And it may be that how Chuck's wife left him had something to do with Jimmy, as that seems to be the thing that F'ed Chuck up so badly. Chuck's anger toward Jimmy is irrational, and goes back to their childhoods. And it WAS telling that Chuck knew Jimmy would come for the tape, but was way off on how. He always sees Jimmy in the worst light. His feelings about Jimmy blind him to even good things Jimmy did like putting himself through law school at night.

The whole show (at least the first chapters) is about how Jimmy becomes Saul. It's more character study than action show. I think it's interesting. Acording to the Podcast about the show, they expected the show to be more humor and Saul being Saul. That's the "Mork and Mindy" direction, a show about the Saul's antics as a scummy lawyer. But, as they began to get into it, they became more interested in giving him depth, so you actually care about Saul. So, this is more of a spin off like "Fraiser", complete with foil brother, where you learn more about the character, his depth and his family that made him who he is. So, everything in the show is about how Jimmy becomes Saul. If that issue is no longer of interest, I'm not sure I'd watch. You're on season 3, I think by now your sold or your not into it. Getting rid of Chuck and Kim is easy. He's on unsteady ground with both all the time. They can kill Chuck off, or make this split with Jimmy here be so bad and deep that they they disown one another. Kim can get caught up in the wash of all that and just break with Jimmy, too. Or, worse, Chuck really hurts Kim in the process of hurting Jimmy, and Jimmy disowns Chuck or tortures him (think how vulnerable Chuck is given his electronics issues how how severely they affect him).

I think it's interesting to see how this all unfolds, how Jimmy gets wrapped up with Mike and Gus and turns to Saul. To me, the attention the writers pay to all this, the way they let it unfold, that is the fun of the how. I enjoy the enjoy watching a show runner and writers that bring their A game every week.

These are great writers who care about character, and unlike many shows, they really try to keep things internally consistent in this world and their characters, with few if any "cheap" outs. They write themselves into corners all the time and don't go for the easy out. Compare it to Walking Dead where the writers are forever inconsistent internally (they constantly forget covering themselves with walker guts makes them invisible to walkers) and cheap tricks and weird choices inconsistent with character abound.

I think it would also be interesting if, in a season or 2 as we get into where BB starts in the timeline, they jump ahead and we see how he extricates himself from his current circle of hell as Cinnabon purveyor to resume his life as Saul. It has the potential to be a prequel and sequel to BB in one.
It appears as tho this will now end  
DennyInDenville : 4/18/2017 11:40 pm : link
With Kim hating Saul for breaking into Chucks to destroy the tape


Saul will then b come Saul from Jimmy
RE: It appears as tho this will now end  
David in LA : 4/19/2017 12:48 am : link
In comment 13433714 DennyInDenville said:
Quote:
With Kim hating Saul for breaking into Chucks to destroy the tape


Saul will then b come Saul from Jimmy


It's going to be interesting to see how that plays out. I think something tragic is going to occur to explain why Chuck and Kim are not a part of Jimmy's life anymore.
Nobody knows what happens to Kim  
BlackLight : 4/19/2017 1:22 am : link
From the pilot, people assumed that she winds up dying of lung cancer because she smokes so much.
Daniel  
fkap : 4/19/2017 12:21 pm : link
I mostly agree with you. I diverge a bit on the Chuck character. McGuffin, McGuffet, foil, whatever, he's just there for us to hate, and to drive Jimmy bonkers. he doesn't need to make sense, or be some great character study.

I've thought from the beginning, that Cinnabon Saul can be a start of a new 'spin off'. People think of CS as a destination (like How I met your mother), but there's a whole world of possibility there. I'm guessing by time they get there, the show will have run it's course and Cinnabon Saul will be as dead as Walt.
The said part is Jimmy  
BigBlueDownTheShore : 4/19/2017 12:47 pm : link
worked so hard to get that law degree and Chuck doesn't see it as hard work, but a short cut. Jimmy tries his hardest to be Chuck.

In the beginning of the show, Jimmy is trying so hard to walk the straight line, and its against who he is internally, but I can't stop thinking that if Chuck just gave him some encouragement or a pat on the back when he did something right, instead of recent him, Jimmy wouldn't go to the darkside.

Chuck is too black and white, and being that way, he is just as bad as Jimmy is. He clearly only cares about being right. Chuck started getting sick when Jimmy got his Law Degree and passed the bar. He won't be better until Jimmy is no longer a lawyer.

Kim is probably going to get her name dragged through the mud due to this stupid event, and Chuck doesn't care. Jimmy is essentially going to ruin Kim's life and get her disbarred.
I think eventually Mike will be involved in the Jimmy/Chuck conclusion  
moespree : 4/19/2017 1:01 pm : link
Mike is not going to kill Chuck but getting him to back off Jimmy, and breaking him away from Jimmy, seems to be a real possibility in my opinion. Jimmy helped Mike out in this episode and even reminded him he's got his back. Knowing the way Vince Gilligan foreshadows and writes, those two things from this episode don't seem like coincidences to me. It seems they're planting the seeds for Mike to return the favor at some point. And as we know from Breaking Bad Mike and Jimmy do maintain a relationship the entire time and do continue to assist each other.
Let's  
mitch300 : 4/19/2017 1:32 pm : link
also remember that Jimmy wanted to work for Chuck's firm and thru Howard, Chuck said no.
Well we know Saul has  
BigBlueDownTheShore : 4/19/2017 1:41 pm : link
someone that can change his identity and basically put you in witness protection. I bet you Mike has that hookup, but no way Saul changes to Saul with Kim and Chuck still in the picture. They have to be dead at this point.
I half expected to see Ernesto agonizing at home what to do  
David in LA : 4/19/2017 2:06 pm : link
and Gus walks in and is like "what's wrong son?"
If I recall correctly,  
fkap : 4/19/2017 2:08 pm : link
wasn't Chuck already sick when Jimmy announced his law degree?

Chuck has always been sick on BCS. the show opened with Jimmy announcing his law degree and Chuck already being a recluse. It comes as a surprise to Chuck that Jimmy was doing law school and had passed the bar. Chuck did diss Jimmy's method of becoming a lawyer, espousing night school/correspondence courses being a sub par education.

It'll be interesting to see the part of Chuck's marital status play from here. one episode from a previous season had Chuck getting jealous over the then wife getting along with Jimmy, and in this last episode, Jimmy blurts out something about why it took so long for her to leave Chuck. These things happen for a reason on the show.
RE: Well we know Saul has  
David in LA : 4/19/2017 2:09 pm : link
In comment 13434335 BigBlueDownTheShore said:
Quote:
someone that can change his identity and basically put you in witness protection. I bet you Mike has that hookup, but no way Saul changes to Saul with Kim and Chuck still in the picture. They have to be dead at this point.


I actually think that might be what ended up happening to Kim for some reason.
RE: If I recall correctly,  
BigBlueDownTheShore : 4/19/2017 2:13 pm : link
In comment 13434381 fkap said:
Quote:
wasn't Chuck already sick when Jimmy announced his law degree?

Chuck has always been sick on BCS. the show opened with Jimmy announcing his law degree and Chuck already being a recluse. It comes as a surprise to Chuck that Jimmy was doing law school and had passed the bar. Chuck did diss Jimmy's method of becoming a lawyer, espousing night school/correspondence courses being a sub par education.

It'll be interesting to see the part of Chuck's marital status play from here. one episode from a previous season had Chuck getting jealous over the then wife getting along with Jimmy, and in this last episode, Jimmy blurts out something about why it took so long for her to leave Chuck. These things happen for a reason on the show.


Chuck got sick after Jimmy got his law degree. He's basically sick because he has anxiety over Jimmy being a servant of the law. Last years flash backs with chuck under the huge lights were hinting at it.
fkap  
Steve in Greenwich : 4/19/2017 2:15 pm : link
I don't believe so. When the show starts Jimmy is already a practicing lawyer in elder law. They show in a flashback the day he told Chuck he received his law degree while Chuck was still working at the office (prior to his condition). Excited Jimmy thinks this means he will be able to practice at HHM and then during his cake ceremony in the mail room Howard walks in to tell him no dice.
it would be fitting for Jimmy  
fkap : 4/19/2017 2:16 pm : link
to ruin Kim's life. He's a lot like Walt. there isn't a character from BB that benefited from knowing Walt (maybe the dude who smuggled Walt to the North east, but he was a minor character). Walt was toxic. Wouldn't surprise me at all to see the same producers/creators use Jimmy as a surrogate for Walt, where everyone he touches wilts.
Remember in BB when Mike took Jesse  
B in ALB : 4/19/2017 2:21 pm : link
on all of those pick-ups all over New Mexico? Then Mike orchestrated the hold up while he was in the warehouse picking up another package? Jesse gets away in Mike's car and picks him up outside the diner?

I'm sort of assuming that Mike takes the place of the guy in the last BCS episode who is doing all the pick-ups while Mike trails him through the night - eventually ending up outside LPH. That's going to be Mike's role moving forward - basically Gus' right hand man. And that's how the connection to Jimmy/Saul is made for Walter White to take advantage of.
RE: Remember in BB when Mike took Jesse  
David in LA : 4/19/2017 2:23 pm : link
In comment 13434411 B in ALB said:
Quote:
on all of those pick-ups all over New Mexico? Then Mike orchestrated the hold up while he was in the warehouse picking up another package? Jesse gets away in Mike's car and picks him up outside the diner?

I'm sort of assuming that Mike takes the place of the guy in the last BCS episode who is doing all the pick-ups while Mike trails him through the night - eventually ending up outside LPH. That's going to be Mike's role moving forward - basically Gus' right hand man. And that's how the connection to Jimmy/Saul is made for Walter White to take advantage of.


That's a great guess. Knowing Gus, since his pick up guy gave him away, it's time to cut bait and replace him.
And Gus and Mike have a huge thing in common  
B in ALB : 4/19/2017 2:24 pm : link
They both HATE Hector Salamanca. That will also bring them together.
Steve  
fkap : 4/19/2017 2:26 pm : link
could be. I remember him telling someone in the office, but thought it was Kim. Thought Chuck was always a recluse.
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