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NFT: "Better Call Saul" S3-E2 **spoilers**

BlackLight : 4/18/2017 4:08 am
So here's where I'm confused. Last week, Ernie accidentally hears Jimmy confess on Chuck's tape recorder. Chuck makes it absolutely clear to Ernie that he's can't tell anyone.

But this week, Chuck is working this angle, the success of which relies on Jimmy finding out about the tape, and breaking into Chuck's house to destroy it. How does Chuck imagine that Jimmy will even find out about the tape, if he told Ernie to keep quiet about it? Is there a detail here that's so obvious that I'm missing it?
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I agree it looks like Jimmy will be ruining those around him  
moespree : 4/19/2017 2:28 pm : link
We know from this episode he obviously ruined the "folksy" as the episode put it, happy nature of the front desk lady. She's still with Saul in Breaking Bad but no where near as nice or caring. Which brings up another point...whatever happens to make him Saul that front desk lady follows him anyway. So Jimmy obviously has a great deal of trust in her, because one would assume since she knows him as Jimmy, she's going to know at least some of what goes down.
RE: I agree it looks like Jimmy will be ruining those around him  
BigBlueDownTheShore : 4/19/2017 2:50 pm : link
In comment 13434424 moespree said:
Quote:
We know from this episode he obviously ruined the "folksy" as the episode put it, happy nature of the front desk lady. She's still with Saul in Breaking Bad but no where near as nice or caring. Which brings up another point...whatever happens to make him Saul that front desk lady follows him anyway. So Jimmy obviously has a great deal of trust in her, because one would assume since she knows him as Jimmy, she's going to know at least some of what goes down.


Great observation.
Francesca definitely has some skeletons  
B in ALB : 4/19/2017 2:52 pm : link
in her closet. The whole departure from the DMV was sketchy to say the least. And they didn't even check any references or look into her background.
Yeah remember she tried to shake down Walt  
moespree : 4/19/2017 2:56 pm : link
After he broke the window in BB. I think it was like 20 thousand or something she tried to extort. So either she's not so nice from the start and at this point in Better Call Saul is pretending, or Jimmy brings her down a dark path and ruins her.
whatever  
Steve in Greenwich : 4/19/2017 3:31 pm : link
happens between Better Call Saul and Breaking Bad to turn Jimmy into Saul I cannot imagine is something on such a grand scale as murder / criminal. Jimmy works and practices in Albuquerque in both shows. He has previously been employed by two of the largest firms in the area and has his face has been plastered on television with ad's & billboards as Jimmy McGill (he's publically known). In Breaking Bad he is even more well known publically (Jesse & Walt know him even before ever meeting him from commercials). If Chuck is successful in his attempt to get Jimmy barred from Law or criminally in trouble with that tape then simply changing his name isn't going to escape him from the past enough to start practicing law again. If Chuck or Kim are murdered because of his doing, again H.H.M. & Davis & Main are going to have major suspicion of the one guy who ties those two people together that they know unquestionably just changing his name and going about his career in town. Something more subtle on a public scale but heart wrenching is going to have to happen to cause Jimmy to turn into Saul in my opinion.
He's going to have Chuck committed  
BigBlueDownTheShore : 4/19/2017 4:57 pm : link
which will take down HHM, because with out Chuck they are nothing.

Kim on the other hand, I have no idea. I feel like she'll get disbarred somehow or might have to move from bad publicity from Jimmy going to jail.
RE: whatever  
mitch300 : 4/19/2017 6:13 pm : link
In comment 13434506 Steve in Greenwich said:
Quote:
happens between Better Call Saul and Breaking Bad to turn Jimmy into Saul I cannot imagine is something on such a grand scale as murder / criminal. Jimmy works and practices in Albuquerque in both shows. He has previously been employed by two of the largest firms in the area and has his face has been plastered on television with ad's & billboards as Jimmy McGill (he's publically known). In Breaking Bad he is even more well known publically (Jesse & Walt know him even before ever meeting him from commercials). If Chuck is successful in his attempt to get Jimmy barred from Law or criminally in trouble with that tape then simply changing his name isn't going to escape him from the past enough to start practicing law again. If Chuck or Kim are murdered because of his doing, again H.H.M. & Davis & Main are going to have major suspicion of the one guy who ties those two people together that they know unquestionably just changing his name and going about his career in town. Something more subtle on a public scale but heart wrenching is going to have to happen to cause Jimmy to turn into Saul in my opinion.

Steve, I said the same thing yesterday @ 12:47 post.
So, whatever they get him on now will obviously be dismissed. Maybe his defense is that Chuck is crazy. Won't be too hard to prove.
RE: RE: whatever  
BigBlueDownTheShore : 4/19/2017 6:23 pm : link
In comment 13434678 mitch300 said:
Quote:
In comment 13434506 Steve in Greenwich said:


Quote:


happens between Better Call Saul and Breaking Bad to turn Jimmy into Saul I cannot imagine is something on such a grand scale as murder / criminal. Jimmy works and practices in Albuquerque in both shows. He has previously been employed by two of the largest firms in the area and has his face has been plastered on television with ad's & billboards as Jimmy McGill (he's publically known). In Breaking Bad he is even more well known publically (Jesse & Walt know him even before ever meeting him from commercials). If Chuck is successful in his attempt to get Jimmy barred from Law or criminally in trouble with that tape then simply changing his name isn't going to escape him from the past enough to start practicing law again. If Chuck or Kim are murdered because of his doing, again H.H.M. & Davis & Main are going to have major suspicion of the one guy who ties those two people together that they know unquestionably just changing his name and going about his career in town. Something more subtle on a public scale but heart wrenching is going to have to happen to cause Jimmy to turn into Saul in my opinion.


Steve, I said the same thing yesterday @ 12:47 post.
So, whatever they get him on now will obviously be dismissed. Maybe his defense is that Chuck is crazy. Won't be too hard to prove.


Real simple. My brother is crazy and I do things to make him less crazy and I got upset because I am over here helping him all the time and he is here trying to frame for crap I didn't do. I have every right to be upset at my brother.
Is it reasonable to assume  
BlackLight : 4/19/2017 8:54 pm : link
that the tape Jimmy destroyed wasn't "The Tape?"
My guess is Kim relocated to NYC and starts over  
DennyInDenville : 4/19/2017 9:24 pm : link
.
RE: Is it reasonable to assume  
shockeyisthebest8056 : 4/19/2017 10:10 pm : link
In comment 13434871 BlackLight said:
Quote:
that the tape Jimmy destroyed wasn't "The Tape?"


Doesn't matter if it is the tape... Howard already said he's not going to use it. What they could get him for is forcing his way into the home, destroying property, and threatening to burn down the house.
Listening to a podcast review of the episode  
BigBlueDownTheShore : 4/20/2017 7:48 am : link
And they brought up that Kik could possibly be looking into putting Chuck away for extortion, which makes a ton of sense.
I thought the consensus was that  
fkap : 4/20/2017 10:46 am : link
Chuck is nothing since his breakdown. Why does HHM need Jimmy to further breakdown Chuck to obliterate the firm? Chuck is no longer super lawyer carrying his weight, or the weight of the firm. He's a flaked out fellow. the firm wanted him gone at one point. they sink or swim without him.
RE: I thought the consensus was that  
Steve in Greenwich : 4/20/2017 11:01 am : link
In comment 13435286 fkap said:
Quote:
Chuck is nothing since his breakdown. Why does HHM need Jimmy to further breakdown Chuck to obliterate the firm? Chuck is no longer super lawyer carrying his weight, or the weight of the firm. He's a flaked out fellow. the firm wanted him gone at one point. they sink or swim without him.

HHM wanted to distance themselves from Chuck but they don't want him gone. The first episode of the show Jimmy is meeting with Howard trying to get Howard to pay out Chuck's share which he cant do because the firm cant afford to pay him out. They rather him be an invalid locked up in his home, but don't want him gone and taking his equity in the company. Howard's fear was that Jimmy would have Chuck committed and use power of attorney to force HHM to buy him out, as that would bankrupt the firm. Jimmy "does the right thing" and only uses the power of attorney to get the tests done Chuck needs but does not have Chuck committed to collect the money despite what Chuck and Howard expect him to do. This goes back to the final episode of the first season when Jimmy comes to the realization that he held millions of dollars in his hand and did the right thing and gave it back. He says when given the opportunity again he will never make that mistake again. Next time Chuck has an episode, Jimmy will again have the opportunity in his hands for the mega-payout from HHM, bankrupting them and taking the money.
RE: I thought the consensus was that  
BigBlueDownTheShore : 4/20/2017 11:06 am : link
In comment 13435286 fkap said:
Quote:
Chuck is nothing since his breakdown. Why does HHM need Jimmy to further breakdown Chuck to obliterate the firm? Chuck is no longer super lawyer carrying his weight, or the weight of the firm. He's a flaked out fellow. the firm wanted him gone at one point. they sink or swim without him.


I think its been said that if Chuck were to cash out, the firm would go belly up.
The irony is that Chuck  
BigBlueDownTheShore : 4/20/2017 11:15 am : link
is trying his hardest to put Jimmy away, and get him out of practicing Law, and somehow or another its going to lead to Chuck's demise.

On the flip side, if Chuck had acted as a proud older brother, there is a chance that Jimmy might have straightened himself out.
wasn't the 'never going to do that again'  
fkap : 4/20/2017 11:16 am : link
in regards to the cash that had been embezzled, and therefore couldn't be brought up in court? Mike made a point of saying he wouldn't take it because he had been paid to recover it, not to steal it. The Chuck deal was that the firm wanted Chuck out, and Jimmy knew that would be the final nail in the coffin for Chuck, so he refused. the firm was offering a buyout, (a little hazy on this, but I think based on having Chuck committed) which power of attorney/Brother Jimmy wouldn't go for.

Honestly, at that point, two years ago, Jimmy switched over to Saul. But they decided to drag out the story line another couple of years when Jimmy will (hopefully, who knows, we'll see how the ratings go) reach the same exact point he did after throwing away a lucrative big time lawyer gig and leaving Mike in the photo hut booth..

I think there is a possibility  
B in ALB : 4/20/2017 11:25 am : link
that Jimmy and Howard end up working together behind the scenes to the detriment of Chuck. After Jimmy is put in jail, Howard comes to him with some sort of plan allowing Jimmy to keep practicing law while getting power of attorney over Chuck. Howard gets rid of Chuck on his terms and Jimmy escapes trouble. They meet at the end of an episode and Howard thanks him, "S'all good, man." Cut to black.
RE: RE: Is it reasonable to assume  
Mike in Long Beach : 4/20/2017 11:34 am : link
In comment 13434986 shockeyisthebest8056 said:
Quote:
In comment 13434871 BlackLight said:


Quote:


that the tape Jimmy destroyed wasn't "The Tape?"



Doesn't matter if it is the tape... Howard already said he's not going to use it. What they could get him for is forcing his way into the home, destroying property, and threatening to burn down the house.


This isn't true at all. He said he wasn't going to use the tape at a time when the tape was all that was available as evidence. Once Jimmy did all of the things you just noted he did, it proves he believes the tape to be real and incriminating. That gives the tape as evidence far more value in court than it did before.

If that wasn't the actual tape, then the real one would certainly be back on the table, I'd think.
Breaking in isn't going to get Jimmy disbarred  
Mike in Long Beach : 4/20/2017 11:35 am : link
Forging court documents will. That's Chuck's end-game here. Not 2 weeks in county.
RE: Breaking in isn't going to get Jimmy disbarred  
pjcas18 : 4/20/2017 11:38 am : link
In comment 13435406 Mike in Long Beach said:
Quote:
Forging court documents will. That's Chuck's end-game here. Not 2 weeks in county.


I think we know he doesn't get disbarred, right? He was a practicing attorney in Breaking bad which is probably after all the Chuck stuff.

Unless he gets his license back after a while or is simply practicing law without a license or viewed changing his name from Jimmy to Saul as a way to get a fake license under a different name.
one thought I had  
fkap : 4/20/2017 12:58 pm : link
amongst the many semi synapse firings, is that the mug shot could be of cinnabon Saul. We're assuming it's of Jimmy McGill.

I doubt it's CS, but it could be. If I were the writer, I'd go there. be a nice twist. he fainted and would have had the authorities called in, and perhaps found out.
RE: RE: RE: Is it reasonable to assume  
shockeyisthebest8056 : 4/20/2017 1:03 pm : link
In comment 13435403 Mike in Long Beach said:
Quote:

This isn't true at all. He said he wasn't going to use the tape at a time when the tape was all that was available as evidence. Once Jimmy did all of the things you just noted he did, it proves he believes the tape to be real and incriminating. That gives the tape as evidence far more value in court than it did before.

If that wasn't the actual tape, then the real one would certainly be back on the table, I'd think.


The problem with that is there's no way to prove the intent. We (the viewers) and the characters know that was the actual intent, but I don't recall Jimmy explicitly saying that. I thought most of what he said was incredulity about being taped... not admitting whether the statements on the tape were true or false. I could be wrong though about what he said. I'll have to watch that scene again.
RE: RE: RE: RE: Is it reasonable to assume  
BlackLight : 4/20/2017 1:12 pm : link
In comment 13435629 shockeyisthebest8056 said:

The problem with that is there's no way to prove the intent. We (the viewers) and the characters know that was the actual intent, but I don't recall Jimmy explicitly saying that. I thought most of what he said was incredulity about being taped... not admitting whether the statements on the tape were true or false. I could be wrong though about what he said. I'll have to watch that scene again. [/quote]

Considering that the scheme Chuck dreamed up to corner Jimmy in the first place was pretty far-fetched, I'm thinking they might be playing fast and loose with the legalities here.
I could  
Steve in Greenwich : 4/20/2017 1:25 pm : link
see Howard turning on Chuck due to this entire tape business. His shock while hearing the tape seemed less towards what Jimmy had done, but more looked like a distaste for how far Chuck went (secretly recording the conversation, faking sick to lure his Brother in, playing on Jimmy's heartstring). Howard also knows that the endgame has no gains for himself. The Mesa Verde account is lost, he says even if he could prove without a shadow of doubt that Jimmy sabotaged them, Mesa Verde would not come back to HHM just due to the bad optics from these events. If the tape isn't going to get his client back the only end result would be getting Jimmy barred from Law. For this Howard is going to let Chuck spend piles of money for private detectives and likely more in future court fees? Jimmy barred from law also could sandbag the one big money case that HHM continues working on (the Sand Piper Case); a case that Jimmy handed them that could be collaterally damaged by Jimmy's shady lawyer work being brought into light.
RE: RE: RE: RE: Is it reasonable to assume  
BigBlueDownTheShore : 4/20/2017 1:33 pm : link
In comment 13435629 shockeyisthebest8056 said:
Quote:
In comment 13435403 Mike in Long Beach said:


Quote:



This isn't true at all. He said he wasn't going to use the tape at a time when the tape was all that was available as evidence. Once Jimmy did all of the things you just noted he did, it proves he believes the tape to be real and incriminating. That gives the tape as evidence far more value in court than it did before.

If that wasn't the actual tape, then the real one would certainly be back on the table, I'd think.



The problem with that is there's no way to prove the intent. We (the viewers) and the characters know that was the actual intent, but I don't recall Jimmy explicitly saying that. I thought most of what he said was incredulity about being taped... not admitting whether the statements on the tape were true or false. I could be wrong though about what he said. I'll have to watch that scene again.


Or it could be viewed as Jimmy getting very upset with his brother that he is trying to take care of, and all he wants to do is bring his own brother down no matter what.
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