But Zach Martin does not belong in the same conversation. Fine player, Pro Bowl player, sure, but he is not the difference maker that Donald and Beckham are. Not even close. Zach Martin is not keeping opposing coordinators up at night.
agreed. We pump him up because we'd love a pro bowl Guard but swapping him out for Donald are Beckham is something every single GM in the NFL would do. It isn't a knock on Martin, it's a knock on the position he plays.
HOFer. However playing for a jerkball program hurts his chances to make the sort of lasting impression that an extraordinary talent like Donald should make. The Rams think better days are right around the corner. Well let's see about that. I didn't like their draft nor am I particularly high on their QB.
Donald gets caught up in the trash sometimes on running plays. Because of his insane quickness and intuitive sense to use it, he guesses wrong and takes himself out of a play, on occasion.
Other than that, he's the capo.
that draft looks pretty good. Not too many total whiffs. Greg Robinson, Blake Bortles - eh, obviously Johnny Football mid round
But overall most teams have to be happy with their 1st Rd picks
It's got a chance to be a historic draft despite lacking a lot of QB talent:
Carr - legit top 10 QB
Beckham
Donald
Martin
Mack
Evans
Cook
Landry
Barr
Etc
That's 4 legit all-pros already.
If Bortles can develop into a league average starter and Teddy can recover and get back on track to being an average starter, it can go down as one of the greatest drafts.
1 time second team All Pro. Yes. He's a 3 time Pro Bowler too. If pro bowls get u excited. All Pro means more. It's like a. Oscar vs a people's choice award.
First ballot HOF guy. He's easily the best OL on his team and makes everyone better. Saying OBJ or Donald are hands down better is silly.
He's an Offensive lineman. Not as sexy in our stupid fantasy football PFF meaningless stats driven world.
All 3 are stellar players and sure fire HOF types. And Of the 3 one can argue OBJ has cost his team more w his some of his drops and his shitty GB Performance.
Just odd to peel Martin off. Like he's had no impact on Dallas dominant OL transformation.
1 time second team All Pro. Yes. He's a 3 time Pro Bowler too. If pro bowls get u excited. All Pro means more. It's like a. Oscar vs a people's choice award.
First ballot HOF guy. He's easily the best OL on his team and makes everyone better. Saying OBJ or Donald are hands down better is silly.
He's an Offensive lineman. Not as sexy in our stupid fantasy football PFF meaningless stats driven world.
All 3 are stellar players and sure fire HOF types. And Of the 3 one can argue OBJ has cost his team more w his some of his drops and his shitty GB Performance.
Just odd to peel Martin off. Like he's had no impact on Dallas dominant OL transformation.
Defensive coordinators don't pull their hair out wondering how they're going to defend against Zach Martin. Nobody has to scheme around Zach Martin or change what they do on defense because of him.
If the Cowboys offered Martin and their 2018 1st round pick for OBJ, what would you tell them after you stopped laughing? And the Rams would have the same response if the offer was for Donald.
1 time second team All Pro. Yes. He's a 3 time Pro Bowler too. If pro bowls get u excited. All Pro means more. It's like a. Oscar vs a people's choice award.
First ballot HOF guy. He's easily the best OL on his team and makes everyone better. Saying OBJ or Donald are hands down better is silly.
He's an Offensive lineman. Not as sexy in our stupid fantasy football PFF meaningless stats driven world.
All 3 are stellar players and sure fire HOF types. And Of the 3 one can argue OBJ has cost his team more w his some of his drops and his shitty GB Performance.
Just odd to peel Martin off. Like he's had no impact on Dallas dominant OL transformation.
Guards are not worth as much as generational wide receivers or interior pass rushers.
RE: RE: Martin is an 2 time all first team All Pro.
1 time second team All Pro. Yes. He's a 3 time Pro Bowler too. If pro bowls get u excited. All Pro means more. It's like a. Oscar vs a people's choice award.
First ballot HOF guy. He's easily the best OL on his team and makes everyone better. Saying OBJ or Donald are hands down better is silly.
He's an Offensive lineman. Not as sexy in our stupid fantasy football PFF meaningless stats driven world.
All 3 are stellar players and sure fire HOF types. And Of the 3 one can argue OBJ has cost his team more w his some of his drops and his shitty GB Performance.
Just odd to peel Martin off. Like he's had no impact on Dallas dominant OL transformation.
Defensive coordinators don't pull their hair out wondering how they're going to defend against Zach Martin. Nobody has to scheme around Zach Martin or change what they do on defense because of him.
Yeah. Because he's a guard. I get it. You devalue that positions. Im my opinion that you are wrong. If you don't think DC don't go after weaker OL players w stunts a d blitzes Fine. Also to me when a guy is that dominant he makes his linemates jobs easier. Alllowing them to give help or resulting in extra available blockers. Elliot on the Giants isn't the talknof the NFL. MARTIN has a lot to do with that.
He's ansure fire HOF fIrst ballot OG. You can tell me all day about Donald. Also he gets single teamed due to Brockers next to him because teams have to double Brockers and he has Quinn as well. Please don't act like OCs don't have to fame plan around those guys too. Donald is also a HOF type guy.
But this DCs are up at nights over him. Really?
LT was that guy. Few others. No one changes their whole offensive scheme due to Donald. Same way as no one changes their whole scheme for OBJ or Martin. They account for guys. They have to.
1 time second team All Pro. Yes. He's a 3 time Pro Bowler too. If pro bowls get u excited. All Pro means more. It's like a. Oscar vs a people's choice award.
First ballot HOF guy. He's easily the best OL on his team and makes everyone better. Saying OBJ or Donald are hands down better is silly.
He's an Offensive lineman. Not as sexy in our stupid fantasy football PFF meaningless stats driven world.
All 3 are stellar players and sure fire HOF types. And Of the 3 one can argue OBJ has cost his team more w his some of his drops and his shitty GB Performance.
Just odd to peel Martin off. Like he's had no impact on Dallas dominant OL transformation.
Defensive coordinators don't pull their hair out wondering how they're going to defend against Zach Martin. Nobody has to scheme around Zach Martin or change what they do on defense because of him.
Yeah. Because he's a guard. I get it. You devalue that positions. Im my opinion that you are wrong. If you don't think DC don't go after weaker OL players w stunts a d blitzes Fine. Also to me when a guy is that dominant he makes his linemates jobs easier. Alllowing them to give help or resulting in extra available blockers. Elliot on the Giants isn't the talknof the NFL. MARTIN has a lot to do with that.
He's ansure fire HOF fIrst ballot OG. You can tell me all day about Donald. Also he gets single teamed due to Brockers next to him because teams have to double Brockers and he has Quinn as well. Please don't act like OCs don't have to fame plan around those guys too. Donald is also a HOF type guy.
But this DCs are up at nights over him. Really?
LT was that guy. Few others. No one changes their whole offensive scheme due to Donald. Same way as no one changes their whole scheme for OBJ or Martin. They account for guys. They have to.
Matty, didn't we do quite well against Donald, holding him in check? Not offering this as an answer to anything, but I seem to recall not being hurt by him. Could be misremembering
wanted Martin. He was so NFL-ready. Loved the debates on why you shouldn't pick a Guard early...silly.
Difficult to compare the impacts of a WR versus a Guard but don't expose yourself as a moron on this board if you don't think Martin isn't great and impacts how the Cowboys win games..
but I am glad that the Giants took Beckham. All three are great players but I feel the Giants made the best decision. Anyone who says that Donald would have been the better choice have a fair argument but if I could do it over again I would still want them to take Beckham. Also had the Giants taken Donald instead of Beckham the Giants never would have signed Damon Harrison with Donald and Hankins at DT.
1 time second team All Pro. Yes. He's a 3 time Pro Bowler too. If pro bowls get u excited. All Pro means more. It's like a. Oscar vs a people's choice award.
First ballot HOF guy. He's easily the best OL on his team and makes everyone better. Saying OBJ or Donald are hands down better is silly.
He's an Offensive lineman. Not as sexy in our stupid fantasy football PFF meaningless stats driven world.
All 3 are stellar players and sure fire HOF types. And Of the 3 one can argue OBJ has cost his team more w his some of his drops and his shitty GB Performance.
Just odd to peel Martin off. Like he's had no impact on Dallas dominant OL transformation.
Defensive coordinators don't pull their hair out wondering how they're going to defend against Zach Martin. Nobody has to scheme around Zach Martin or change what they do on defense because of him.
Yeah. Because he's a guard. I get it. You devalue that positions. Im my opinion that you are wrong. If you don't think DC don't go after weaker OL players w stunts a d blitzes Fine. Also to me when a guy is that dominant he makes his linemates jobs easier. Alllowing them to give help or resulting in extra available blockers. Elliot on the Giants isn't the talknof the NFL. MARTIN has a lot to do with that.
He's ansure fire HOF fIrst ballot OG. You can tell me all day about Donald. Also he gets single teamed due to Brockers next to him because teams have to double Brockers and he has Quinn as well. Please don't act like OCs don't have to fame plan around those guys too. Donald is also a HOF type guy.
But this DCs are up at nights over him. Really?
LT was that guy. Few others. No one changes their whole offensive scheme due to Donald. Same way as no one changes their whole scheme for OBJ or Martin. They account for guys. They have to.
Agree with this.
Also think I value consistent greatness on the lines these days more than I used to.
As for WRs.....a top 3 in the league is sweet but having 3 or 4 that are very good is better. Green Bay, Atlanta....they have that now.
1 time second team All Pro. Yes. He's a 3 time Pro Bowler too. If pro bowls get u excited. All Pro means more. It's like a. Oscar vs a people's choice award.
First ballot HOF guy. He's easily the best OL on his team and makes everyone better. Saying OBJ or Donald are hands down better is silly.
He's an Offensive lineman. Not as sexy in our stupid fantasy football PFF meaningless stats driven world.
All 3 are stellar players and sure fire HOF types. And Of the 3 one can argue OBJ has cost his team more w his some of his drops and his shitty GB Performance.
Just odd to peel Martin off. Like he's had no impact on Dallas dominant OL transformation.
I understand your sentiment but I don't agree with you at all. Martin is a terrific player, but like the poster mentioned, he is penalized by his position. Offensive guard is just not as important of a position as DT or #1 WR, it's just not. If he were a tackle, it'd be one thing.
And you say Odell cost his team more by the drops in GB. What an odd comment. Giants don't even sniff the playoffs without Odell.
If the Cowboys offered Martin and their 2018 1st round pick for OBJ, what would you tell them after you stopped laughing? And the Rams would have the same response if the offer was for Donald.
Talk to me after this year. Maybe. He going to grow up. Show up when it actually matters? Pugh is leaving plUg Martin in while we make up stupid hypotheticals. OBJ will want 20 million a year. Why not.
How many playoff wins do the Giants have w OBJ? You keep talking about him like he's LT. He's a top top tier player. All I said was you devalue Martin. Did indecalue OBJ?
How many play off wins do Megatron bring Detroit? Randy Moss Minny. One guy doesn't win championships.
It's about the players. I don't see how you can compare the impact Martin has on the game to the impact that OBJ has on the game.
And I repeat: is there anyone out there who would accept Martin and a 1st round pick in exchange for OBJ? Anyone??? Crickets.
Okay, there's your answer. Next subject...
p.s.--Martin is a Pro Bowl player, but Larry Allen he is not.
Disagreements fine but get your estrogen in check and relax. Geez. Go rub one out. Sorry I wasn't manning this thread 24-7 to reply fast w Kuch. Martin was a two time All Pro. Big diferwnce between All Pro a Pro Bowl. 1 time second team All Pro too. Yeah. Those guys are all over the NFL. his first 3 years are comparable to Allan. But I'll bow to your 15 year internet posting skills from now on as definitive facts on the comparative value of a HOF WR vs a HOF OL
Shhhh!
Iirc, my criticism was really only about the 15 Aaron Donald threads per week that were started leading up to the draft...
But overall most teams have to be happy with their 1st Rd picks
Imagine JPP - Snacks - Donald - OV?
I'd almost give up OBJ to see that.
I prefer our roster the way it is.
Regards,
Fat Mike and half of BBI
Is he better than Sapp or Haynesworth was?
He Haynesworth actually was trying hard he was one of the most dominant forces I'd seen as a DT.
Donald gets caught up in the trash sometimes on running plays. Because of his insane quickness and intuitive sense to use it, he guesses wrong and takes himself out of a play, on occasion.
Other than that, he's the capo.
But overall most teams have to be happy with their 1st Rd picks
It's got a chance to be a historic draft despite lacking a lot of QB talent:
Carr - legit top 10 QB
Beckham
Donald
Martin
Mack
Evans
Cook
Landry
Barr
Etc
That's 4 legit all-pros already.
If Bortles can develop into a league average starter and Teddy can recover and get back on track to being an average starter, it can go down as one of the greatest drafts.
First ballot HOF guy. He's easily the best OL on his team and makes everyone better. Saying OBJ or Donald are hands down better is silly.
He's an Offensive lineman. Not as sexy in our stupid fantasy football PFF meaningless stats driven world.
All 3 are stellar players and sure fire HOF types. And Of the 3 one can argue OBJ has cost his team more w his some of his drops and his shitty GB Performance.
Just odd to peel Martin off. Like he's had no impact on Dallas dominant OL transformation.
First ballot HOF guy. He's easily the best OL on his team and makes everyone better. Saying OBJ or Donald are hands down better is silly.
He's an Offensive lineman. Not as sexy in our stupid fantasy football PFF meaningless stats driven world.
All 3 are stellar players and sure fire HOF types. And Of the 3 one can argue OBJ has cost his team more w his some of his drops and his shitty GB Performance.
Just odd to peel Martin off. Like he's had no impact on Dallas dominant OL transformation.
First ballot HOF guy. He's easily the best OL on his team and makes everyone better. Saying OBJ or Donald are hands down better is silly.
He's an Offensive lineman. Not as sexy in our stupid fantasy football PFF meaningless stats driven world.
All 3 are stellar players and sure fire HOF types. And Of the 3 one can argue OBJ has cost his team more w his some of his drops and his shitty GB Performance.
Just odd to peel Martin off. Like he's had no impact on Dallas dominant OL transformation.
Guards are not worth as much as generational wide receivers or interior pass rushers.
Quote:
1 time second team All Pro. Yes. He's a 3 time Pro Bowler too. If pro bowls get u excited. All Pro means more. It's like a. Oscar vs a people's choice award.
First ballot HOF guy. He's easily the best OL on his team and makes everyone better. Saying OBJ or Donald are hands down better is silly.
He's an Offensive lineman. Not as sexy in our stupid fantasy football PFF meaningless stats driven world.
All 3 are stellar players and sure fire HOF types. And Of the 3 one can argue OBJ has cost his team more w his some of his drops and his shitty GB Performance.
Just odd to peel Martin off. Like he's had no impact on Dallas dominant OL transformation.
Defensive coordinators don't pull their hair out wondering how they're going to defend against Zach Martin. Nobody has to scheme around Zach Martin or change what they do on defense because of him.
Yeah. Because he's a guard. I get it. You devalue that positions. Im my opinion that you are wrong. If you don't think DC don't go after weaker OL players w stunts a d blitzes Fine. Also to me when a guy is that dominant he makes his linemates jobs easier. Alllowing them to give help or resulting in extra available blockers. Elliot on the Giants isn't the talknof the NFL. MARTIN has a lot to do with that.
He's ansure fire HOF fIrst ballot OG. You can tell me all day about Donald. Also he gets single teamed due to Brockers next to him because teams have to double Brockers and he has Quinn as well. Please don't act like OCs don't have to fame plan around those guys too. Donald is also a HOF type guy.
But this DCs are up at nights over him. Really?
LT was that guy. Few others. No one changes their whole offensive scheme due to Donald. Same way as no one changes their whole scheme for OBJ or Martin. They account for guys. They have to.
Quote:
In comment 13502660 LauderdaleMatty said:
Quote:
1 time second team All Pro. Yes. He's a 3 time Pro Bowler too. If pro bowls get u excited. All Pro means more. It's like a. Oscar vs a people's choice award.
First ballot HOF guy. He's easily the best OL on his team and makes everyone better. Saying OBJ or Donald are hands down better is silly.
He's an Offensive lineman. Not as sexy in our stupid fantasy football PFF meaningless stats driven world.
All 3 are stellar players and sure fire HOF types. And Of the 3 one can argue OBJ has cost his team more w his some of his drops and his shitty GB Performance.
Just odd to peel Martin off. Like he's had no impact on Dallas dominant OL transformation.
Defensive coordinators don't pull their hair out wondering how they're going to defend against Zach Martin. Nobody has to scheme around Zach Martin or change what they do on defense because of him.
Yeah. Because he's a guard. I get it. You devalue that positions. Im my opinion that you are wrong. If you don't think DC don't go after weaker OL players w stunts a d blitzes Fine. Also to me when a guy is that dominant he makes his linemates jobs easier. Alllowing them to give help or resulting in extra available blockers. Elliot on the Giants isn't the talknof the NFL. MARTIN has a lot to do with that.
He's ansure fire HOF fIrst ballot OG. You can tell me all day about Donald. Also he gets single teamed due to Brockers next to him because teams have to double Brockers and he has Quinn as well. Please don't act like OCs don't have to fame plan around those guys too. Donald is also a HOF type guy.
But this DCs are up at nights over him. Really?
LT was that guy. Few others. No one changes their whole offensive scheme due to Donald. Same way as no one changes their whole scheme for OBJ or Martin. They account for guys. They have to.
Matty, didn't we do quite well against Donald, holding him in check? Not offering this as an answer to anything, but I seem to recall not being hurt by him. Could be misremembering
Difficult to compare the impacts of a WR versus a Guard but don't expose yourself as a moron on this board if you don't think Martin isn't great and impacts how the Cowboys win games..
He also makes sure guys like Aaron Donald have to make the All-Pro team by looking at tape of other games instead of Cowboys vs Rams.
Link - ( New Window )
And I repeat: is there anyone out there who would accept Martin and a 1st round pick in exchange for OBJ? Anyone??? Crickets.
Okay, there's your answer. Next subject...
p.s.--Martin is a Pro Bowl player, but Larry Allen he is not.
He also makes sure guys like Aaron Donald have to make the All-Pro team by looking at tape of other games instead of Cowboys vs Rams.
Stop looking at stats? I didn't give a single stat. Who are you even arguing with?
And I repeat: is there anyone out there who would accept Martin and a 1st round pick in exchange for OBJ? Anyone??? Crickets.
Okay, there's your answer. Next subject...
p.s.--Martin is a Pro Bowl player, but Larry Allen he is not.
Martin is without question an All-Pro player. Has been every year, i think...
But Beckham is a more valuable player.
Quote:
He is excellent at both pulling and drive blocking. He can do it all which is why the Cowboys can easily put up 1000 yard rushers each year.
He also makes sure guys like Aaron Donald have to make the All-Pro team by looking at tape of other games instead of Cowboys vs Rams.
Stop looking at stats? I didn't give a single stat. Who are you even arguing with?
Didnt mean to suggest you did, only to the theme that player impact is measured by TDs, Yards or Sacks.
Agree with premise that I would rather have OBJ and Donald over Martin as they seem to be more "generational-types" thus far which are rare.
But not on board that Guards can't have more impact than a WR or a DT. They can.
Yes, agreed.
Imagine JPP - Snacks - Donald - OV?
I'd almost give up OBJ to see that.
I'm happy with 3/4 of the DL being all-pro caliber AND having a top 3 WR
Quote:
In comment 13502660 LauderdaleMatty said:
Quote:
1 time second team All Pro. Yes. He's a 3 time Pro Bowler too. If pro bowls get u excited. All Pro means more. It's like a. Oscar vs a people's choice award.
First ballot HOF guy. He's easily the best OL on his team and makes everyone better. Saying OBJ or Donald are hands down better is silly.
He's an Offensive lineman. Not as sexy in our stupid fantasy football PFF meaningless stats driven world.
All 3 are stellar players and sure fire HOF types. And Of the 3 one can argue OBJ has cost his team more w his some of his drops and his shitty GB Performance.
Just odd to peel Martin off. Like he's had no impact on Dallas dominant OL transformation.
Defensive coordinators don't pull their hair out wondering how they're going to defend against Zach Martin. Nobody has to scheme around Zach Martin or change what they do on defense because of him.
Yeah. Because he's a guard. I get it. You devalue that positions. Im my opinion that you are wrong. If you don't think DC don't go after weaker OL players w stunts a d blitzes Fine. Also to me when a guy is that dominant he makes his linemates jobs easier. Alllowing them to give help or resulting in extra available blockers. Elliot on the Giants isn't the talknof the NFL. MARTIN has a lot to do with that.
He's ansure fire HOF fIrst ballot OG. You can tell me all day about Donald. Also he gets single teamed due to Brockers next to him because teams have to double Brockers and he has Quinn as well. Please don't act like OCs don't have to fame plan around those guys too. Donald is also a HOF type guy.
But this DCs are up at nights over him. Really?
LT was that guy. Few others. No one changes their whole offensive scheme due to Donald. Same way as no one changes their whole scheme for OBJ or Martin. They account for guys. They have to.
Agree with this.
Also think I value consistent greatness on the lines these days more than I used to.
As for WRs.....a top 3 in the league is sweet but having 3 or 4 that are very good is better. Green Bay, Atlanta....they have that now.
Old Giants of 2011 had that.
1. Odell
2. Donald
3. Martin
And as good as he has been, Martin is a distant third on that list.
First ballot HOF guy. He's easily the best OL on his team and makes everyone better. Saying OBJ or Donald are hands down better is silly.
He's an Offensive lineman. Not as sexy in our stupid fantasy football PFF meaningless stats driven world.
All 3 are stellar players and sure fire HOF types. And Of the 3 one can argue OBJ has cost his team more w his some of his drops and his shitty GB Performance.
Just odd to peel Martin off. Like he's had no impact on Dallas dominant OL transformation.
I understand your sentiment but I don't agree with you at all. Martin is a terrific player, but like the poster mentioned, he is penalized by his position. Offensive guard is just not as important of a position as DT or #1 WR, it's just not. If he were a tackle, it'd be one thing.
And you say Odell cost his team more by the drops in GB. What an odd comment. Giants don't even sniff the playoffs without Odell.
IIRC, Khalil Mack was at the top of our draft board as well.
Imagine if he ends up on any of the other NFC East teams?
Talk to me after this year. Maybe. He going to grow up. Show up when it actually matters? Pugh is leaving plUg Martin in while we make up stupid hypotheticals. OBJ will want 20 million a year. Why not.
How many playoff wins do the Giants have w OBJ? You keep talking about him like he's LT. He's a top top tier player. All I said was you devalue Martin. Did indecalue OBJ?
How many play off wins do Megatron bring Detroit? Randy Moss Minny. One guy doesn't win championships.
And I repeat: is there anyone out there who would accept Martin and a 1st round pick in exchange for OBJ? Anyone??? Crickets.
Okay, there's your answer. Next subject...
p.s.--Martin is a Pro Bowl player, but Larry Allen he is not.
Disagreements fine but get your estrogen in check and relax. Geez. Go rub one out. Sorry I wasn't manning this thread 24-7 to reply fast w Kuch. Martin was a two time All Pro. Big diferwnce between All Pro a Pro Bowl. 1 time second team All Pro too. Yeah. Those guys are all over the NFL. his first 3 years are comparable to Allan. But I'll bow to your 15 year internet posting skills from now on as definitive facts on the comparative value of a HOF WR vs a HOF OL