They were tearing up the league last year before RT Lane Johnson got hurt. Their point differential was positive and suggestive of how dominant they were.
I like Prescott and think he'll move forward this year, but I like Wentz better and his pedigree seemingly suggests that his second-year advancement will be exponential and is more certain than Precott's. I saw glimpses of potential that was off the charts, with a super strong arm, leadership abilities and much more than merely mobile.
They added a superb vet receiver (Jeffries?) to what had been a very weak corp. That alone should provide a significant upgrade.
Mgmt. has demonstrated that they're way above "competent".
The are somewhat dependent on a corner they drafted with a knee injury, but the first round DE could be downright scary and move that allready capable front seven to dominant. And, unlike Dallas, who we match up well with, Philly's front seven might exploit our offensive line - meanin that if we match up well with Dallas, Philly matches up well with us.
Dallas is losing three defensive backfield starters and two defensive linemen (one through suspension). They picked darn near on the bottom of the draft and are lookin for rooks to fill those holes (for the most part though Brown, Scarndrick and Jones return).
And Dallas's schedule is brutal too. How does a New secondary look against OBJ, Marshall, Ephram, Vereen & Shepard? They face Julio Jones early too. That's a darn tough way to open.
One has to like their offense, but there's two new linemen and everything went right for them last year.
I don't understand Vegas or so many of TV/s pundits who have made Dallas a heavy favorite. I can see them being excellent again, but I think this edition could just as easily struggle. We've been looking at each other, but Wash and Philly are so dramatically improved that I can see them in the hunt too.
FAct is, I've seen this division be very tough and competitive at the top, but I don't see a last place team among the four and while I think we could be over the top crazy good, I also think anything could happen and surprises are going to be more likely than not.
Curious, to see how other - more knowledgeable than me - posters see it.
Dallas has problems at CB, but Philly has the worst CBs in the league
Dallas has problems at CB, but Philly has the worst CBs in the league
With our personnel we should be unstoppable if healthy
As far as their OL goes, they still have one of the best even with the 2 losses. The key will be Collins. If he can play decent they will still be dominant. If not then we can attack them. Witten is a shell of his former self when it comes to blocking. He is brutal now. They will need to get someone else on the field to help Collins out. Who is playing LG? Is it Cooper? He has been a major bust.
So, it wouldn't surprise me to see Dallas be a .500 team or even like 7-9. It also wouldn't surprise me to see Dalls push us to the end of the season.
With our personnel we should be unstoppable if healthy
There was a reason it wasn't creative, did you not watch the games last season or realize what we had on defense?
If you don't think McAdoo is creative than I don't know what to tell you.
As for the OP, the Eagles will always be a wildcard no matter how good or bad they look. Year 2 for Wentz will be interesting. If he improves they improve. But their defense sucks so that will be a big test for Wentz to "carry" the team.
The Eagles might be a year away but I am more concerned about them then Dallas.
I would be shocked if we did not beat Dallas week one......I can not say that at Philly.
I suspect that Dallas' offense will actually take a step back in 2017 as defenses increase their awareness of Prescott's limitations and strengths. Moreover, the Cowboys added no one of note to their roster on that side of the ball, but lost two key players on their OL. I won't even comment on their defense; Rod Marinelli deserves 3 lbs. of blow from Jerrah's private stock for all the exceptional work he's done with the garbage provided him by the front office.
Philly's offense will grow, though, both through the air and on the ground. I like the 5th round pick they got (Donnel Pomphrey) and think he'll be a terrific 3rd down back.
Washington regressed, in my opinion: I'm not sure who's catching passes for them and I'm not sure who's their workhorse in the backfield. Plus, the distraction element Washington annually derails them, even in good years.
I still think the Giants are the class of the division; then comes a horse race between Dallas and Philly for the wildcard, with Washington limping home with prospects for a top five slot in the 2018 NFL draft.
Cowboys-Skins tied
Eagles
I think we can safely assume that Dak and Wentz are going to ruin a lot of perfectly good Sundays over the next decade.
How many times has the consensus pick for last finished first and vice versa?
I think you could make a case for any of the four teams being the best (in the East) on paper and that's before you take into account injuries, adjusted strength of schedule, when you play common opponents, etc.
It should be a fun year.
If the last 11 years are any indication it would predict that the division will go through Dallas.
I am not sold on Dak or Carson Skins lost some firepower . On paper I feel we had the best off season in the division
The defense is our strength even with the loss of Hankins and the question of OO ever playing let alone living up to his draft status . Were still a top 10 defense . The concern is do we have enough of a pass rush if Okwara blossoms
and Wynn improves we could add another Vet along the way .
On offense I expect Eli to improve providing the O-line
does as well .This will be a tell tale year for Flowers I am somewhat confident that he does . It will be interesting when they put the pads on see if one of the younger guys emerge , Something tells me they may not
retain Pugh but its a prove it year for him as well as
Richberg I do worry even more so about the health because of the lack of experience .
If we can run the ball with consistency especially on 1st down and when we need to eat time off the clock .
Another place I worry a bit is RB I hope Gallman's style works at the pro level he seems to run a bit upright but
he is a scrapper if he pans out especially in short yardage . This offense will get back to 28 PPG we will be
very tough to contend with .
The Eagles might be a year away but I am more concerned about them then Dallas.
I would be shocked if we did not beat Dallas week one......I can not say that at Philly.
If the last 11 years are any indication it would predict that the division will go through Dallas.
If the last 11 years are any indication the giants are the only team in the east capable of winning the super bowl. Twice.
Clearly we agree. Thanks.
Defensively the Eagles got better with Barnett through the draft and Jernigan through FA (who Reese was looking at). Better front 7 than Dallas. The Eagles Achilles heel is their secondary. Sidney Jones and Douglas could rectify this but their secondary is probably a year or two away. Slight edge to Dallas overall but arguably a push.
The Giants match up better w Dallas as we saw last year. Stop the running game and make Dak beat you.
Against Philly, the OL has to give Eli time to exploit their secondary. I like the Giants d vs philly o but they're definitely more dynamic and capable than Dallas o.
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Understand your reasoning and what's so is what's so and that is that Dallas has no secondary defense, DL has no depth and has been weakened, OL change of personnel, questionable LBs, questionable Receivers,and a second year QB.
I have a feeling Prescott has a harder time this year as their is film on him. Just a wish.
I like the Giants d vs philly o but they're definitely more dynamic and capable than Dallas o.
Dak had the 31st highest rated season in NFL history. 10 points higher than Eli's career best. Dallas was a top 3 offense. He's one of two QBs in NFL history to put up 3500 yards and less than 5 picks. The only other player to accomplish that is Tom Brady.
Wentz was mostly bad. There's nothing, not a single piece of evidence from the eye test to statistics to record, that supports your thesis. Wentz was abysmal in terms of accuracy. He puts no thought into where he's throwing the ball. His deep ball accuracy was miles below Dak. His accuracy on throws to the line of scrimmage was one of the worst in NFL history. He threw picks by staring down his first read. He threw picks by overthrowing receivers. He threw picks by trying to be too aggressive. His footwork was atrocious. Happy feet? No tree trunks. He's big and mobile. That's pretty much it.
They're substantially better offensively. I know the message hasn't filtered to NY, but OL play is the easiest road to success in the modern NFL. OAK, ATL, DAL, GB. Different QBs, different RBs. Combined for 56 wins on the backs of their OL. Whistling past the graveyard again here.
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Wentz is a better QB than Dak.
I like the Giants d vs philly o but they're definitely more dynamic and capable than Dallas o.
Dak had the 31st highest rated season in NFL history. 10 points higher than Eli's career best. Dallas was a top 3 offense. He's one of two QBs in NFL history to put up 3500 yards and less than 5 picks. The only other player to accomplish that is Tom Brady.
Wentz was mostly bad. There's nothing, not a single piece of evidence from the eye test to statistics to record, that supports your thesis. Wentz was abysmal in terms of accuracy. He puts no thought into where he's throwing the ball. His deep ball accuracy was miles below Dak. His accuracy on throws to the line of scrimmage was one of the worst in NFL history. He threw picks by staring down his first read. He threw picks by overthrowing receivers. He threw picks by trying to be too aggressive. His footwork was atrocious. Happy feet? No tree trunks. He's big and mobile. That's pretty much it.
They're substantially better offensively. I know the message hasn't filtered to NY, but OL play is the easiest road to success in the modern NFL. OAK, ATL, DAL, GB. Different QBs, different RBs. Combined for 56 wins on the backs of their OL. Whistling past the graveyard again here.
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In comment 13517932 WillVAB said:
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Wentz is a better QB than Dak.
I like the Giants d vs philly o but they're definitely more dynamic and capable than Dallas o.
Dak had the 31st highest rated season in NFL history. 10 points higher than Eli's career best. Dallas was a top 3 offense. He's one of two QBs in NFL history to put up 3500 yards and less than 5 picks. The only other player to accomplish that is Tom Brady.
Wentz was mostly bad. There's nothing, not a single piece of evidence from the eye test to statistics to record, that supports your thesis. Wentz was abysmal in terms of accuracy. He puts no thought into where he's throwing the ball. His deep ball accuracy was miles below Dak. His accuracy on throws to the line of scrimmage was one of the worst in NFL history. He threw picks by staring down his first read. He threw picks by overthrowing receivers. He threw picks by trying to be too aggressive. His footwork was atrocious. Happy feet? No tree trunks. He's big and mobile. That's pretty much it.
They're substantially better offensively. I know the message hasn't filtered to NY, but OL play is the easiest road to success in the modern NFL. OAK, ATL, DAL, GB. Different QBs, different RBs. Combined for 56 wins on the backs of their OL. Whistling past the graveyard again here.
What Dak accomplished last year was truly amazing but can he repeat those numbers? That kind of play?? Teams catch up, figure guys out a bit. I just look at Dallas and I say Witten is a year older; the OL took some small hits; the secondary is, sorry, no way as solid at least not to start the season. My hope is Dallas starts slow and we start fast to build a cushion.
His improvement throughout the season suggests yes. His last three games were his best IMO. 17 TDs from November to January.
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In comment 13518003 elbowj said:
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His improvement throughout the season suggests yes. His last three games were his best IMO. 17 TDs from November to January.
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Since 2006 Dallas has competed for the NFC East title into week 17. The two exceptions were 2010 and 2015 when Romo was injured. Last year was the exception when Romo was injured and Dallas competed for the division.
If the last 11 years are any indication it would predict that the division will go through Dallas.
If the last 11 years are any indication the giants are the only team in the east capable of winning the super bowl. Twice.
Clearly we agree. Thanks.
The thread is about the biggest threat, Dallas or Philadelphia. I gave the last11 years(since Romo took over) to show that it's Dallas who is the biggest threat.
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Wentz is a better QB than Dak.
I like the Giants d vs philly o but they're definitely more dynamic and capable than Dallas o.
Dak had the 31st highest rated season in NFL history. 10 points higher than Eli's career best. Dallas was a top 3 offense. He's one of two QBs in NFL history to put up 3500 yards and less than 5 picks. The only other player to accomplish that is Tom Brady.
Wentz was mostly bad. There's nothing, not a single piece of evidence from the eye test to statistics to record, that supports your thesis. Wentz was abysmal in terms of accuracy. He puts no thought into where he's throwing the ball. His deep ball accuracy was miles below Dak. His accuracy on throws to the line of scrimmage was one of the worst in NFL history. He threw picks by staring down his first read. He threw picks by overthrowing receivers. He threw picks by trying to be too aggressive. His footwork was atrocious. Happy feet? No tree trunks. He's big and mobile. That's pretty much it.
They're substantially better offensively. I know the message hasn't filtered to NY, but OL play is the easiest road to success in the modern NFL. OAK, ATL, DAL, GB. Different QBs, different RBs. Combined for 56 wins on the backs of their OL. Whistling past the graveyard again here.
Dak was a game manager last year with a better OL and skill guys than Wentz. The eagles added a workhorse back, a legit WR, and their OL should be intact (unlike last year). You gloss over this like it doesn't matter. Dallas did nothing to get better this off season on offense besides get older and lose offensive linemen.
NY filtered glasses? I hate Philly more than Dallas. But the facts show Philly got better this offseason. More improved than Dallas.
You assume Dallas OL will be dominant in perpetuity. Any Giants fan on this board can tell you how fast a dominant OL can turn into a liability.
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In comment 13517932 WillVAB said:
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Wentz is a better QB than Dak.
I like the Giants d vs philly o but they're definitely more dynamic and capable than Dallas o.
Dak had the 31st highest rated season in NFL history. 10 points higher than Eli's career best. Dallas was a top 3 offense. He's one of two QBs in NFL history to put up 3500 yards and less than 5 picks. The only other player to accomplish that is Tom Brady.
Wentz was mostly bad. There's nothing, not a single piece of evidence from the eye test to statistics to record, that supports your thesis. Wentz was abysmal in terms of accuracy. He puts no thought into where he's throwing the ball. His deep ball accuracy was miles below Dak. His accuracy on throws to the line of scrimmage was one of the worst in NFL history. He threw picks by staring down his first read. He threw picks by overthrowing receivers. He threw picks by trying to be too aggressive. His footwork was atrocious. Happy feet? No tree trunks. He's big and mobile. That's pretty much it.
They're substantially better offensively. I know the message hasn't filtered to NY, but OL play is the easiest road to success in the modern NFL. OAK, ATL, DAL, GB. Different QBs, different RBs. Combined for 56 wins on the backs of their OL. Whistling past the graveyard again here.
Dak was a game manager last year with a better OL and skill guys than Wentz. The eagles added a workhorse back, a legit WR, and their OL should be intact (unlike last year). You gloss over this like it doesn't matter. Dallas did nothing to get better this off season on offense besides get older and lose offensive linemen.
NY filtered glasses? I hate Philly more than Dallas. But the facts show Philly got better this offseason. More improved than Dallas.
You assume Dallas OL will be dominant in perpetuity. Any Giants fan on this board can tell you how fast a dominant OL can turn into a liability.
NY has never had an OL as dominant as Dallas. 3 top 3 guys at their position. All 26 or younger. Listening to Giants fans concerns about Dallas OL is one of the funniest things Ive heard.
I never said anything about glasses though so miss on that one. Dallas won 13 games in 2016. Seems like a 7 win team might need to improve to get close but that seems to be lost here.
The Eagles added a 30 year old guy who averaged <4 ypc. And has never done anything outside of New England. Jeffrey has been out more than on for the last two seasons. He's a straight line runner on a team that uses the fewest straight line routes in the league with a QB who was bottom 5 in deep ball accuracy last season.
Dallas had the third youngest roster in the NFL last year. Age isn't much of an issue right now, but it fits the fact free nature of your post.
Dak wasn't a game manager. You don't finish top 5 against the blitz, top 10 aganist pressure and top 5 in ypa as a game manager. Oh and you contended with nothing about Wentz so I guess you agree there. Nice to see that someone around here can analyze slightly beyond what they here on TV.
All Pros
NYG OL= 1
Dallas OL= 5
Blount led the league in rushing TDs and was 8th in rushing yards. Alshon is an 1100+ 10+ TD guy if he plays a full season -- something I qualified in my original post. Regardless, the guy's talent isn't disputable.
You put Dak on Philly last year and Dak looks like the shitty 4th round pick he was.
As far as your "top 3 OL at their positions" comment, that's nice but that's not really determinative of OL play as a whole. If the right side of your OL is trash it's not going to matter how good Smith, Martin, and Frederick are.
I know the message hasn't filtered to NY, but OL play is the easiest road to success in the modern NFL. OAK, ATL, DAL, GB. Different QBs, different RBs. Combined for 56 wins on the backs of their OL. Whistling past the graveyard again here. [/quote]
The four teams you named combined for 29 wins the year before. And what different QBs were there in GB, OAK, and Atl? Oak and Atl had the same RB both years as well. Arguably 4 of the last 5 superbowls have been won by the team with the worst line. Are you sure you should be whistling past the graveyard and not the library instead?
Blount led the league in rushing TDs and was 8th in rushing yards. Alshon is an 1100+ 10+ TD guy if he plays a full season -- something I qualified in my original post. Regardless, the guy's talent isn't disputable.
You put Dak on Philly last year and Dak looks like the shitty 4th round pick he was.
As far as your "top 3 OL at their positions" comment, that's nice but that's not really determinative of OL play as a whole. If the right side of your OL is trash it's not going to matter how good Smith, Martin, and Frederick are.
So a guys stats are meaningless to their performance. First I've heard of that. How many 30 year old retreads have panned out? It's kind of funny when you argue both for and against scheme's impact and stats in the same post. Almost like you pick whatever brings you to the conclusion you're seeking. Alshon's fit is the issue. Carson can't throw deep. Alshon made his money as a second option with a guy with a cannon. None of those will apply to Philly. They weren't actually missing guys on their OL all year. You believe that it was Lane's absence that made the difference. But the truth is he won three of his four games without Lane against the Bears, Browns and the Cowboys with Sanchez as QB. You have yet to posit a single reason for Wentz's poor performance, mental and physical lapses. You've just named guys on his roster as if that will help him read a defense, look off defenders and throw accurate passes. He's done none of those. Dak has. I'm going to guess your depth chart level of analysis is due to your limited knowledge of their actual performance.
And no, our good lines don't even compare with this Dallas edition. David Diehl was ordinary at best, Mac a nice player, Ohara and Suey ...good players and overachievers.
Only the son in law was a superb all pro type.
Disagree with Elbow on at least with some of his points.
And no, our good lines don't even compare with this Dallas edition. David Diehl was ordinary at best, Mac a nice player, Ohara and Suey ...good players and overachievers.
Only the son in law was a superb all pro type.
Disagree with Elbow on
at least with some of his points.
And no, our good lines don't even compare with this Dallas edition. David Diehl was ordinary at best, Mac a nice player, Ohara and Suey ...good players and overachievers.
Only the son in law was a superb all pro type.
Disagree with Elbow on his contention that ONLY the good offensive teams are winning superbowls in the modern era. That Denver team with a crippled Peyton won exclusively with the defense.
I disagree too about Wentz. I thought he played well and has great potential.
Dak is almost too good to be true. But, in spite of Elbows contention he was a caretaker for most of the year and the benefiary of superb game packages and even playcalling.
. He had to open it up once they were behind to Green Bay and he looked great in doing it, but through most of the year he was the beneficiary of a great supporting cast...great O line, superb receivers, smart TE, and a dominant running back.
He's hard working and a great character guy. I don't doubt that he makes great gains in his sophomore year, but he hasn't done it yet.
A puzzle wrapped inside of a mystery surrounded by an enigma, that's what I think of your defense.
Were they really as bad as everyone said? Or were they cohesive and middle of the road.? Will Jaylon play? And if so, how good will he be? Can Lee stay healthy. Will the disappointing Jones make a leap at safety. Was the suspended guy good last year only because of performance enhancing drugs?
Collins and Cooper two more question marks.
Never was oimpressed with Scandrick and don't expect to be next year.
Frankly, I thought the three you lost were decent players who knew the system.
Elbow, if many of your points are convincing, I still think there's too many question marks....Maybe too many things have to go your way for you to be a superbowl contender. And having said that, I can see Dak making exponential gains and being enough to carry you.
Conclusion.... Eagles have made significant improvements and I think there was a good base to begin with. This Dallas edition looks like feast or famine to me.
And no, our good lines don't even compare with this Dallas edition. David Diehl was ordinary at best, Mac a nice player, Ohara and Suey ...good players and overachievers.
Only the son in law was a superb all pro type.
Disagree with Elbow on at least with some of his points.
And no, our good lines don't even compare with this Dallas edition. David Diehl was ordinary at best, Mac a nice player, Ohara and Suey ...good players and overachievers.
Only the son in law was a superb all pro type.
Disagree with Elbow on
at least with some of his points.
And no, our good lines don't even compare with this Dallas edition. David Diehl was ordinary at best, Mac a nice player, Ohara and Suey ...good players and overachievers.
Only the son in law was a superb all pro type.
Disagree with Elbow on his contention that ONLY the good offensive teams are winning superbowls in the modern era. That Denver team with a crippled Peyton won exclusively with the defense.
I disagree too about Wentz. I thought he played well and has great potential.
Dak is almost too good to be true. But, in spite of Elbows contention he was a caretaker for most of the year and the benefiary of superb game packages and even playcalling.
. He had to open it up once they were behind to Green Bay and he looked great in doing it, but through most of the year he was the beneficiary of a great supporting cast...great O line, superb receivers, smart TE, and a dominant running back.
He's hard working and a great character guy. I don't doubt that he makes great gains in his sophomore year, but he hasn't done it yet.
A puzzle wrapped inside of a mystery surrounded by an enigma, that's what I think of your defense.
Were they really as bad as everyone said? Or were they cohesive and middle of the road.? Will Jaylon play? And if so, how good will he be? Can Lee stay healthy. Will the disappointing Jones make a leap at safety. Was the suspended guy good last year only because of performance enhancing drugs?
Collins and Cooper two more question marks.
Never was oimpressed with Scandrick and don't expect to be next year.
Frankly, I thought the three you lost were decent players who knew the system.
Elbow, if many of your points are convincing, I still think there's too many question marks....Maybe too many things have to go your way for you to be a superbowl contender. And having said that, I can see Dak making exponential gains and being enough to carry you.
Conclusion.... Eagles have made significant improvements and I think there was a good base to begin with. This Dallas edition looks like feast or famine to me.
The thing is Dallas has had most of the same questions for years. The answer has been if they can avoid injuries to their QB none of the rest of them add up to losses. As well as Dallas played on defense in relation to their talent level, defense is not the reason they win football games. Dominant running game with efficient passing is how they win. They have an established pattern of not only winning, but winning at a high clip with that formula. None of the other teams in the division can say that. There's a reason Dallas is favored to win the East everywhere but this little corner. Philly finding answers at QB and NYG finding an answer for their entire offense are much more substantial question marks. And unlike those other teams Dallas actually endeavored to address their Achilles heel in the secondary while Philly did little at QB and NYG failed to seek much help on the OL.
These two are like every single Dallas fan that I know. They always think everybody should be scared shitless of them. The most annoying fan base in all of sports. And second isn't even close. Who the fuck spends three days on a rivals website trying to convince everyone how awesome their team is? Dallas fans, that's who.
Listen to any Dallas fan talk about football for 3 seconds and you just want to throat punch them.
They lost one starting OL. Giving up 18.6 a game= trash. Giving up 17.8= new look doomsday.
NFL East is always a dog fight.
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and their defense is trash. Our defense will be in Year 2 of our guys we signed from last year in the same defense. They'll be as good as last year, if not alot more familiar with the playbook and eachother. Neither Philly nor Dallas scare me this year. And that is the first year in forever I can honestly say that.
They lost one starting OL. Giving up 18.6 a game= trash. Giving up 17.8= new look doomsday.
Context, amateur. Basing a defenses effectiveness on points per game is ludicrous. Dallas' offense had the ball for 3/4 of the game every week. How many points can the defense give up when they aren't on the field? Maybe Dallas can control the clock and keep the defense off the field again this year, but does that make the defense great because they aren't giving up points while sitting on the sidelines? Of course it does, in your bizarro world.
Why are you a Cowboys fan? I'd love to know the backstory of why someone chooses to root for that random team in Texas. Cause you watched them on Thanksgiving in your onesies while sitting on uncle Stu's lap? It's just strange. What makes a non Texas Cowboys fan? The need to root for the "popular" team? They won all the time when you were younger so you hopped on the bandwagon like a chicken shit?
NFL East is always a dog fight.
As pretty as that strawman is, they were past the first round last season. The first round is the one where NYG put up a spirited fight by losing by 25 points. The second round was the one where the feeble Cowboys got blown out by three points. They were also in the second round in 2014 after winning in the first round. They lost again on a ho hum call in another blowout. Facts aren't real popular around here. People really think a team that outscored their opponents by 130 points wasn't good and a team that outscored their opponents by 2 points was robbed of their title of greatest show on turf.