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Are the EAgles more of a threat than Dallas?

grizz299 : 7/2/2017 7:57 am
They were tearing up the league last year before RT Lane Johnson got hurt. Their point differential was positive and suggestive of how dominant they were.
I like Prescott and think he'll move forward this year, but I like Wentz better and his pedigree seemingly suggests that his second-year advancement will be exponential and is more certain than Precott's. I saw glimpses of potential that was off the charts, with a super strong arm, leadership abilities and much more than merely mobile.
They added a superb vet receiver (Jeffries?) to what had been a very weak corp. That alone should provide a significant upgrade.
Mgmt. has demonstrated that they're way above "competent".
The are somewhat dependent on a corner they drafted with a knee injury, but the first round DE could be downright scary and move that allready capable front seven to dominant. And, unlike Dallas, who we match up well with, Philly's front seven might exploit our offensive line - meanin that if we match up well with Dallas, Philly matches up well with us.
Dallas is losing three defensive backfield starters and two defensive linemen (one through suspension). They picked darn near on the bottom of the draft and are lookin for rooks to fill those holes (for the most part though Brown, Scarndrick and Jones return).
And Dallas's schedule is brutal too. How does a New secondary look against OBJ, Marshall, Ephram, Vereen & Shepard? They face Julio Jones early too. That's a darn tough way to open.
One has to like their offense, but there's two new linemen and everything went right for them last year.
I don't understand Vegas or so many of TV/s pundits who have made Dallas a heavy favorite. I can see them being excellent again, but I think this edition could just as easily struggle. We've been looking at each other, but Wash and Philly are so dramatically improved that I can see them in the hunt too.
FAct is, I've seen this division be very tough and competitive at the top, but I don't see a last place team among the four and while I think we could be over the top crazy good, I also think anything could happen and surprises are going to be more likely than not.
Curious, to see how other - more knowledgeable than me - posters see it.
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RE: RE: RE: Dallas lost a few of their starting OL  
elbowj : 7/2/2017 10:16 pm : link
In comment 13518080 BigBlueShock said:
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In comment 13518077 elbowj said:


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In comment 13518075 Dave in Hoboken said:


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and their defense is trash. Our defense will be in Year 2 of our guys we signed from last year in the same defense. They'll be as good as last year, if not alot more familiar with the playbook and eachother. Neither Philly nor Dallas scare me this year. And that is the first year in forever I can honestly say that.



They lost one starting OL. Giving up 18.6 a game= trash. Giving up 17.8= new look doomsday.


Context, amateur. Basing a defenses effectiveness on points per game is ludicrous. Dallas' offense had the ball for 3/4 of the game every week. How many points can the defense give up when they aren't on the field? Maybe Dallas can control the clock and keep the defense off the field again this year, but does that make the defense great because they aren't giving up points while sitting on the sidelines? Of course it does, in your bizarro world.

Why are you a Cowboys fan? I'd love to know the backstory of why someone chooses to root for that random team in Texas. Cause you watched them on Thanksgiving in your onesies while sitting on uncle Stu's lap? It's just strange. What makes a non Texas Cowboys fan? The need to root for the "popular" team? They won all the time when you were younger so you hopped on the bandwagon like a chicken shit?


I was born about 3 minutes from the stadium. Good guess though. Almost as good as those .8 points being the difference in elite and garbage.
RE: RE: RE: Dallas lost a few of their starting OL  
Dave in Hoboken : 7/2/2017 10:45 pm : link
In comment 13518080 BigBlueShock said:
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In comment 13518077 elbowj said:


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In comment 13518075 Dave in Hoboken said:


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and their defense is trash. Our defense will be in Year 2 of our guys we signed from last year in the same defense. They'll be as good as last year, if not alot more familiar with the playbook and eachother. Neither Philly nor Dallas scare me this year. And that is the first year in forever I can honestly say that.



They lost one starting OL. Giving up 18.6 a game= trash. Giving up 17.8= new look doomsday.


Context, amateur. Basing a defenses effectiveness on points per game is ludicrous. Dallas' offense had the ball for 3/4 of the game every week. How many points can the defense give up when they aren't on the field? Maybe Dallas can control the clock and keep the defense off the field again this year, but does that make the defense great because they aren't giving up points while sitting on the sidelines? Of course it does, in your bizarro world.

Why are you a Cowboys fan? I'd love to know the backstory of why someone chooses to root for that random team in Texas. Cause you watched them on Thanksgiving in your onesies while sitting on uncle Stu's lap? It's just strange. What makes a non Texas Cowboys fan? The need to root for the "popular" team? They won all the time when you were younger so you hopped on the bandwagon like a chicken shit?


Come on, man. They won, what, 2 playoff games in how many years? How dare anyone have any questions about them, especially after their absolutely nothing to write home about off-season! Super Bowl, here they come!
Haha  
BigBlueShock : 7/2/2017 10:50 pm : link
Sure you were.

Did Jerry Jones deliver you?
c'mon Elbow  
grizz299 : 7/2/2017 11:27 pm : link
your enthusiasm is pushing you into the irrationality you're protesting....
[quote] And unlike those other teams Dallas actually endeavored to address their Achilles heel in the secondary while Philly did little at QB and NYG failed to seek much help on the OL.[quote].

You lost three of four starters in your secondary. And you want to call that "addressing the problem, because you spent very late second and third round picks on cornerbacks.?

13-3 is by iteself impressive. Two of those losses were close and to a team that matched up very well with you, the third loss after the season was effectively over. So in my mind that makes the 13-3 even more impressive and inarguable.
But we were close, not only in head to head but overall.
Are you going to say that we didn't improve more than you.?
NYG: Vereen, Ellison, Marshall, Ephram, Tollinson, Goodson, D. Thompson with only the loss of Hankins. Just Marshall alone is an unbeliveable upgrade.
Dallas: Additions Taco, three late pick defensive backs, maybe Jaylon Smith ....loss of two starting offensive limeman, loss of two defensive lineman (counting the suspension) and the loss of three defensive secondary players (starters all and underrated at that... . Total starters loss....about 7. Starters gained... I'm not sure, likely none, maybe Cooper. Collins, Scarndrick, Brown were all there and all not good enough to start last year.
My conclusion re: Dallas (again) high upside, low downside. Anywhere from superbowl to 8-8 maybe 7-9.
I think our upside is at least as high without your corresponding downside...That a staggering amount of talent to add to the offense and almost the equicalant of what we added to the D last year.. And without additions (except Ellison who will matter) I see the offensice line getting better...if only marginally.
BTW, Elboy, thanks for contributing, I think your arguements and presence adds to the board.
c'mon Elbow  
grizz299 : 7/2/2017 11:27 pm : link
your enthusiasm is pushing you into the irrationality you're protesting....
[quote] And unlike those other teams Dallas actually endeavored to address their Achilles heel in the secondary while Philly did little at QB and NYG failed to seek much help on the OL.[quote].

You lost three of four starters in your secondary. And you want to call that "addressing the problem, because you spent very late second and third round picks on cornerbacks.?

13-3 is by iteself impressive. Two of those losses were close and to a team that matched up very well with you, the third loss after the season was effectively over. So in my mind that makes the 13-3 even more impressive and inarguable.
But we were close, not only in head to head but overall.
Are you going to say that we didn't improve more than you.?
NYG: Vereen, Ellison, Marshall, Ephram, Tollinson, Goodson, D. Thompson with only the loss of Hankins. Just Marshall alone is an unbeliveable upgrade.
Dallas: Additions Taco, three late pick defensive backs, maybe Jaylon Smith ....loss of two starting offensive limeman, loss of two defensive lineman (counting the suspension) and the loss of three defensive secondary players (starters all and underrated at that... . Total starters loss....about 7. Starters gained... I'm not sure, likely none, maybe Cooper. Collins, Scarndrick, Brown were all there and all not good enough to start last year.
My conclusion re: Dallas (again) high upside, low downside. Anywhere from superbowl to 8-8 maybe 7-9.
I think our upside is at least as high without your corresponding downside...That a staggering amount of talent to add to the offense and almost the equicalant of what we added to the D last year.. And without additions (except Ellison who will matter) I see the offensice line getting better...if only marginally.
BTW, Elboy, thanks for contributing, I think your arguements and presence adds to the board.
darned if I know what's happening  
grizz299 : 7/2/2017 11:29 pm : link
with my posts...Sorry...
RE: Haha  
elbowj : 7/2/2017 11:30 pm : link
In comment 13518096 BigBlueShock said:
Quote:
Sure you were.

Did Jerry Jones deliver you?


Do you somehow think the Metroplex is imaginary? There's millions of us.
RE: c'mon Elbow  
elbowj : 7/2/2017 11:46 pm : link
In comment 13518106 grizz299 said:
Quote:
your enthusiasm is pushing you into the irrationality you're protesting....
[quote] And unlike those other teams Dallas actually endeavored to address their Achilles heel in the secondary while Philly did little at QB and NYG failed to seek much help on the OL.[quote].

You lost three of four starters in your secondary. And you want to call that "addressing the problem, because you spent very late second and third round picks on cornerbacks.?

13-3 is by iteself impressive. Two of those losses were close and to a team that matched up very well with you, the third loss after the season was effectively over. So in my mind that makes the 13-3 even more impressive and inarguable.
But we were close, not only in head to head but overall.
Are you going to say that we didn't improve more than you.?
NYG: Vereen, Ellison, Marshall, Ephram, Tollinson, Goodson, D. Thompson with only the loss of Hankins. Just Marshall alone is an unbeliveable upgrade.
Dallas: Additions Taco, three late pick defensive backs, maybe Jaylon Smith ....loss of two starting offensive limeman, loss of two defensive lineman (counting the suspension) and the loss of three defensive secondary players (starters all and underrated at that... . Total starters loss....about 7. Starters gained... I'm not sure, likely none, maybe Cooper. Collins, Scarndrick, Brown were all there and all not good enough to start last year.
My conclusion re: Dallas (again) high upside, low downside. Anywhere from superbowl to 8-8 maybe 7-9.
I think our upside is at least as high without your corresponding downside...That a staggering amount of talent to add to the offense and almost the equicalant of what we added to the D last year.. And without additions (except Ellison who will matter) I see the offensice line getting better...if only marginally.
BTW, Elboy, thanks for contributing, I think your arguements and presence adds to the board.


Collins was here and was a starter. Brown and Scandrick were here and were starters. Marshall was outplayed by a UDFA last season, had his worst season, and is old. Goodson was there and wasn't good enough to start. Dallas draft picks were scrubs and NY are all upgrades? You want to check out what Dallas has done with late draft picks? A team that scraped by or lost to every good team they played vs a team that had more wins against teams .500 or over than anyone in the NFL last season. And Dallas was missing those starters for a good chunk of last season and went undefeated. They signed placeholders to replace placeholders and drafted guys with upside. If they don't pan out then Carroll Scandrick and Brown are the starters. They do that every year.

I know you actually follow Dallas some so I appreciate your input here. But if you're paying attention you would realize that they've done exactly that for a few years now. And in that time they've accumlated a 28-6 record with their starting QB. The 2017 defense will be much more talented than 2014.

I think NY could very well be better. But I don't think Engram, Marshall and a backup TE are a staggering amount of anything and I'd rather have high draft picks than stick with what wasn't working which is exactly what NY did with their OL. Signing a backup guard and drafting a 6th round flier is a poor excuse for something that caused Eli and the offense to regress so heavily and I'd like to think that reality could be acknowledged.
Yeah, Marshall & Engram  
Dave in Hoboken : 7/2/2017 11:54 pm : link
aren't any significant upgrades to an offense. No, not at all. And that backup TE was almost specifically brought in to help with the blocking. He's mostly a blocking TE, and a damn good one at that. He's going to upgrade the blocking on the line.

Last year's OL problems were also due our Center, Weston Richbrug playing injured the entire season, as he got injured in the pre-season. And another starter, Justin Pugh, missing 5-6 games due to injury. Flowers is in better shape, and he is absolutely due to improve and he better. Fluker was added and he's hungry to save his career. There really wasn't much available to upgrade the OLine this offseason. So, we upgraded our position players on that side of the ball rather significantly. Marshall is also a fantastic blocking WR, which won't hurt, either.
I hate to admit it....  
grizz299 : 7/2/2017 11:54 pm : link
Dallas fans have matured...nothing like they used to be. The ones I know in person are knowledgeable and easy to get along with.
I post on their board all the time and couldn't have done that years ago. And , give them their due, shorter histroy than ours but some major accomplishments.
I've seen some eight dynasties..only Dallas has two of them. Three of the best players I've ever seen at their position...Lily , Neon Deon and the ORT with The Jimmy Jones team.
1. Browns with Otto Graham Paul Brown ,2 Lombardi/ Starr, 3. Landry/Stauback, 4 Bradshaw's steelers, 5.Dallas /Aikman/ Jimmy Jones, 6. San Fran with Montana/Young, 7. Pats.Brady 8 NYG Eli (we'll see about no 8, could still happen..
Get. A. Life. Elbow.  
David in LA : 7/3/2017 12:11 am : link
.
Lane Johnson got hurt?  
Mr. Bungle : 7/3/2017 12:16 am : link
I thought he got suspended.
And the Eagles were not "tearing up the league"  
Mr. Bungle : 7/3/2017 12:19 am : link
last year. They started 3-0 against bad teams that didn't challenge Wentz the right way. Then they lost 9 of their last 13.

That's tearing up the league?
C'mon Marshall  
grizz299 : 7/3/2017 12:25 am : link
played without a qb last year...somehting like 1500 yards the year before. He is in a class with your Dez or better than.

And the almost silly idea that you can lose three starters and get better with late picks is not impossible but very unlikely.. Esp. because I think the three lost players were very good and victimized by your poor pass rush.
I also vehemently disagree with the supposed sagacity of your picks.
You are two years of three win seasons without the pure luck that Dak represents. Passed over approximately 150 times you're going to call that skillful?
Getting a franchise QB for virtually nothing whil eother teams give up no picks is great luck that teams Like Seattle and New England turned into near dynasties.
You got Collins , a potential no 1 pick , on pure luck too and without giving up a single pick (or using one).
We are all to result orientated but Jaylon Smith , no matter how it turns out was incompetency. Not with a late first or very early two...this is a gamble that only should have been taken with a three or four. I'll give you a pass with Gregory but not with Jaylon...even if he's great this year. Too high a risk and you lose a year when you could have gone to the superbowl with one more impact player on the D.
Dak Prescott for nothing...pure luck.
I have a surprisingly effective prediction system...which team has the most probowl types..
.Dallas, Fredrick, the kid from Notre dame, Smith, Elliot, Lee , Dez (marginally)...[6]
Giants JPP, Snacks, Oliver, Cromartie, Jenkins, Collins, OBJ, Marshall,..8.

really good....Apple, Kennard (wait and see..breakout), Pugh, Shepard, Richenberg...
really good Dallas...??? ??? ??? ??? ??

If I wanted to list the sub standard starters we'd have Flowers, Jerry, Hart....and not much more...you'd have maybe 9. cooper, a few defensive linmean, two corners ,two linebacker and two safeties...
all of which is completely insubstantial and after next year is over it will be only a little clearer.
Having said that I will bet you a draft beer on game no. 1
.  
arcarsenal : 7/3/2017 12:33 am : link
It's possible. I think Wentz was every bit as impressive as Dak. In fact, I think Wentz looks like the better QB long-term.

Dak had an all-pro OL and an electric rookie RB his first year. I don't think any QB in this league has an "easy" job, but I do think he had about as ideal a situation as you can as a rookie.

The Eagles have a much better WR group than Dallas does. Dez hasn't looked like the same guy since the foot injury. Maybe that changes - but even still, Alshon, Matthews, Smith is better than what DAL has.

Elliott and the DAL run game is better than what the Eagles have - but the Eagles also have a better defense than Dallas does, IMO.

This is going to be a tough division.

I know it's easy to dismiss WSH but they're not going to be a cakewalk either. The NFCE has had a reputation for being one of the toughest in football for a while and in recent years it kind of dropped off a bit.. but I think this year is going to be one of the most competitive in recent memory. Not one of the 4 teams is going to be bad. Or at least I'd be surprised.
arcarsel: Don't agree  
idinkido : 7/3/2017 7:22 am : link
Dallas and Washington's defenses are absolutely garbage and will lose them a lot of games. Our D can dominate over both their O's despite the obvious pluses they have on that side of the ball. IMO, Philly will be our toughest matchup.
Wentz passed the eyeball test for me last year.  
FStubbs : 7/3/2017 7:42 am : link
I know his stats are garbage but I saw a guy who could play in this league. He just needs time.

Dak appeared to be a more finished product, but he had a vastly better supporting cast.

This division is going to be brutal.
Wentz  
annexOPR : 7/3/2017 8:25 am : link
all be in year 2 with a much improved WR corp. Not "worried", but Philly will be tough - as usual.

I'm all about matchups ... and in my opinion, the Giants match up perfectly with Dallas. I fully expect the Giants to blow the Cowboys out week 1 - they will have no answer for Beckham/Marshall/Shepard/Engram.

Let JJ own Dez with occasional safety help ... Snacks/Collins will do what they do to at least contain EE - make Dak beat them. He won't.

How can any fan of any team in the East  
Boatie Warrant : 7/3/2017 9:22 am : link
Try to Argue which team has been better over the last Decade then the Giants? (drafting, Coaching, Free agency) 2 Superbowl wins say it has been the Giants franchise.

Now going into this year and the moves this off season....I would say the Giants have done a better job improving weaknesses compared to the other 3 teams. Will that equate to wins??? No one knows
good job elbowj...  
Dan in the Springs : 7/3/2017 9:31 am : link
making your case without resorting to insults certainly shows you are improving as a contributor.

On the last Dallas thread, I chose not to engage your statistical argument. This thread I have three questions for you. First, how many new starters will there be for Dallas on opening night (presuming health, of course), and what 13 win team in the past 20 games replaced that many starters and still won 13 or more game? Finally, how many wins are you predicting Dallas to have?
the Giants are the best team In the division  
annexOPR : 7/3/2017 9:34 am : link
Jenkins, DRC, Collins, Apple, Kennard, OV, JPP, Snacks; Beckham, Marshall, Shepard, Perkins, Engram*

Not many rosters have this much top-end talent. *I know he's a rookie, but he feels like 1 of those "too talented to fail" type selections - and he'll never see a double team with Odell on the field.
RE: the Giants are the best team In the division  
annexOPR : 7/3/2017 9:40 am : link
In comment 13518257 annexOPR said:
Quote:
Jenkins, DRC, Collins, Apple, Kennard, OV, JPP, Snacks; Beckham, Marshall, Shepard, Perkins, Engram*

Not many rosters have this much top-end talent. *I know he's a rookie, but he feels like 1 of those "too talented to fail" type selections - and he'll never see a double team with Odell on the field.


accidentally (?) left off Pugh/Richburg - who are 2 of the best at their positions when healthy
All about the OL. If they can go from inconsistent  
LauderdaleMatty : 7/3/2017 9:43 am : link
To mediocre they should win the division. The D is loaded. The O has as much talent as it's had in years.

Dallas is all Elliot and that OL. Philly is too young and has a lot more holes.

Washington has Cousins. Solid but he's one of the most over paid guys in the NFL.

The Giants D was enough to beat Dallas twice. And their O an D took. Step back IMO.

People talking about Dak  
allstarjim : 7/3/2017 12:43 pm : link
as a game manager should wake tf up. Obviously did not watch that Packers-Cowboys playoff game.

As long as the Cowboys have Dak and Elliott, they are going to be a tough out. I don't even think their O-line has to be as superb as it's been for that to be the case. Obviously, it helps them. But Dak and Elliott are good enough to make them competitive against any team in the NFL.

The Eagles are a huge question mark. They did not improve to the level of Dallas or even close.

Alshon Jeffrey doesn't concern me at all (what's the over/under on how many games he'll play this season, 11.5?). Torrey Smith? One dimensional, and we have Jackrabbit and DRC. The biggest add they have is Blount, very good player going into his age 30 season, had 3.9 ypc on a team led by Brady, and we have the best run-stopping DT in the NFL by a wide margin.

Who are their scary weapons? Derek Barnett? Good prospect, could just as easily be a league average football player. Chris Long? Please, he's little more than a warm body at this point.

Brandon Graham? Good player, but started 16 games and only mustered 5.5 sacks and 41 tackles, with 1 PD.

Wentz has to go from a pretty good prospect to Aaron Rodgers in one season for them to be on the level of the Cowboys. They may get one from us because the Giants and Eagles games are so friggin' weird, but they are not a threat to the division; they are not a threat to us.
Philly's defense  
annexOPR : 7/3/2017 12:52 pm : link
is much better than Dallas

and we can knock Alshon/Smith all we want, they are much better players than what they trotted out last year.

RE: People talking about Dak  
Klaatu : 7/3/2017 12:53 pm : link
In comment 13518455 allstarjim said:
Quote:
as a game manager should wake tf up. Obviously did not watch that Packers-Cowboys playoff game.

As long as the Cowboys have Dak and Elliott, they are going to be a tough out. I don't even think their O-line has to be as superb as it's been for that to be the case. Obviously, it helps them. But Dak and Elliott are good enough to make them competitive against any team in the NFL.


Thank you, Voice of Reason.
Dak  
annexOPR : 7/3/2017 1:05 pm : link
looked good against 1 of the worst pass defenses in recent memory.

He failed to top 30 attempts in half his games and barely completed 50% against the Giants - with 1 TD in 2 games.

GB made every QB look great - that secondary might as well have been starting wacky inflatable arm flailing tube men at corner by the end of the season.
RE: People talking about Dak  
BSIMatt : 7/3/2017 2:21 pm : link
In comment 13518455 allstarjim said:
Quote:
as a game manager should wake tf up. Obviously did not watch that Packers-Cowboys playoff game.

As long as the Cowboys have Dak and Elliott, they are going to be a tough out. I don't even think their O-line has to be as superb as it's been for that to be the case. Obviously, it helps them. But Dak and Elliott are good enough to make them competitive against any team in the NFL.

The Eagles are a huge question mark. They did not improve to the level of Dallas or even close.

Alshon Jeffrey doesn't concern me at all (what's the over/under on how many games he'll play this season, 11.5?). Torrey Smith? One dimensional, and we have Jackrabbit and DRC. The biggest add they have is Blount, very good player going into his age 30 season, had 3.9 ypc on a team led by Brady, and we have the best run-stopping DT in the NFL by a wide margin.

Who are their scary weapons? Derek Barnett? Good prospect, could just as easily be a league average football player. Chris Long? Please, he's little more than a warm body at this point.

Brandon Graham? Good player, but started 16 games and only mustered 5.5 sacks and 41 tackles, with 1 PD.

Wentz has to go from a pretty good prospect to Aaron Rodgers in one season for them to be on the level of the Cowboys. They may get one from us because the Giants and Eagles games are so friggin' weird, but they are not a threat to the division; they are not a threat to us.


I actually do feel that way about Elliot. I don't think Elliot needs the best offensive line in football to be successful. Dak was impressive, when I look at that Dallas offense, it just reminds me of when Leinart was at USC, he looked fantastic, but this was a guy that was just handed the keys to the car, and what a car.

If you swapped Prescott and Eli last year, took Eli and put him in that Dallas offense, with that line, with Elliot, with Dez Bryant and Jason Witten...what kind of year do you think Eli would have?

Take Dak Presscott and stick him the Giants offense last year, how would things change for him? With no threat of a running game? Without the ability to hold the ball and wait for receivers to break open.

Dak played extremely well, but again, when you are playing Dallas last year, your entire focus is on stopping Elliot and that run game, if you don't do that you have no chance. Dak was playing behind a fortress last year, I'm not ready to say he'd keep that level up with a lesser supporting cast.
RE: Philly's defense  
allstarjim : 7/3/2017 2:51 pm : link
In comment 13518459 annexOPR said:
Quote:
is much better than Dallas

and we can knock Alshon/Smith all we want, they are much better players than what they trotted out last year.


Philly's defense MIGHT be better than Dallas (that's not even a slam dunk). But their TEAM is not better than Dallas. Not even close.
RE: RE: Philly's defense  
annexOPR : 7/3/2017 4:42 pm : link
In comment 13518574 allstarjim said:
Quote:
In comment 13518459 annexOPR said:


Quote:


is much better than Dallas

and we can knock Alshon/Smith all we want, they are much better players than what they trotted out last year.




Philly's defense MIGHT be better than Dallas (that's not even a slam dunk). But their TEAM is not better than Dallas. Not even close.


"not even close" ... 2nd year QBs, Philly's OL is no slouch, Ertz+ are a better receiving corp than Dallas' ...

Elliot it a great back, but "not even close" is bs. Dallas is not that good.
RE: RE: RE: Philly's defense  
allstarjim : 7/3/2017 6:17 pm : link
In comment 13518633 annexOPR said:
Quote:
In comment 13518574 allstarjim said:


Quote:


In comment 13518459 annexOPR said:


Quote:


is much better than Dallas

and we can knock Alshon/Smith all we want, they are much better players than what they trotted out last year.




Philly's defense MIGHT be better than Dallas (that's not even a slam dunk). But their TEAM is not better than Dallas. Not even close.



"not even close" ... 2nd year QBs, Philly's OL is no slouch, Ertz+ are a better receiving corp than Dallas' ...

Elliot it a great back, but "not even close" is bs. Dallas is not that good.


Well, they won 13 games last year and Philly won 7. You are severely overrating Philly. They aren't that good, the OL is far worse than the Cowboys. They have Lane Johnson. Yeah they have Jason Peters who is 35 years old. They have a bunch of decent players, but not a lot of players that really can put them over the top. Further, Dallas' coaching staff is FAR superior to the Eagles'. All this stuff about Dallas' defense was there last year also and Marinelli still made them pretty good.

Here's the deal, Philly will likely be in the basement of the division this year. Not kidding. I don't think they will get to 7 wins like they did last year.

You can talk about individual players all around their roster, fine. But unless Wentz takes a MAJOR leap forward, then the biggest difference in the two teams is QB play, and Dak is at minimum a very good QB already. Wentz is a hope-so/maybe. And the biggest predictor of winning and losing in the NFL is QB play. And then there's Elliott, who is one of the best offensive skill players in football, and NOBODY that the Eagles have is even close.

They aren't close to Dallas. You can wish Dallas away as not being that good, but they aren't going anywhere, and I wish it wasn't so.

And you're talking about Torrey Smith... caught 20 balls in 12 games last year, ffs. Torrey Smith can run fast. He is not a good football player. Repeat...Torrey Smith ain't shit. Sure, Alshon is a nice player but when has he been a great #1? I'll tell you...NEVER. His only two seasons he cracked a thousand yards was when Brandon Marshall was carrying his water for him. He's started 20 games last 2 seasons and has 6 TDs to show for it. He's an injury-prone, overrated receiver that they overpaid for. Dez, even AFTER the foot injury, is still a bigger threat than Alshon. I wouldn't even be surprised if Jordan Matthews ends up being their most productive receiver again this year.

Further, you can knock the Cowboys receiving corps and say they aren't that great, but it doesn't matter because defenses have to worry about Elliott. And Dez, Beasley, and Terrance Williams are a strong enough trio to allow that offense to get it done, like they did last year en route to scoring the 5th most points in the NFL (Philly was 16th).

This hype around Philly is silly. In our division, the Redskins poses a greater threat than the Eagles.



Philly beat the Giants last year  
annexOPR : 7/3/2017 7:50 pm : link
Have a solid OL/DL, 1 of the best safeties, and their receiving corp is greatly improved from last year. DBG and Agholar are now Alshon and Smith (who's stats on the 9ers are irrelevant). Mathews in the slot. Ertz at TE. You don't have to like Alshon or smith to know they are still better than what they trotted out last year.

Philly has a better receiving corp, a better defense, and a solid OL. On top of being an annual pain in the ass ... I don't care about last years records, Dallas is nothing special - at all, and they've done nothing to improve this offseason. Philly has.

I think the Giants are by far the most talented team ... but Philly's matchup scares me more than Dallas. Eagles DL is legit, Jenkins is great, and they have weapons now at receiver + Ertz to really do some damage if Wentz progresses.

Dallas has a great OL (with new starters) and Zeke. That's it.
Well we agree to disagree  
allstarjim : 7/3/2017 10:35 pm : link
But I'd bet you a six pack that Dallas will best Philly's record next year, and do so with ease.
Oh yeah  
allstarjim : 7/3/2017 10:41 pm : link
I don't think the Eagles OL/DL is solid (is that another way of saying average?). I think they have major deficiencies on each of those lines. Obviously, not Fletcher Cox, who is the 2nd best DT in the division. I just think with every point you make about them, you are exaggerating.

And it means zero that they got a game against us last year. Nada. They would beat us once if we were undefeated and they couldn't buy a win. That's just Eagles-Giants.
RE: RE: RE: Dallas lost a few of their starting OL  
Jimmy Googs : 7/3/2017 10:49 pm : link
In comment 13518080 BigBlueShock said:
Quote:
In comment 13518077 elbowj said:


Quote:


In comment 13518075 Dave in Hoboken said:


Quote:


and their defense is trash. Our defense will be in Year 2 of our guys we signed from last year in the same defense. They'll be as good as last year, if not alot more familiar with the playbook and eachother. Neither Philly nor Dallas scare me this year. And that is the first year in forever I can honestly say that.



They lost one starting OL. Giving up 18.6 a game= trash. Giving up 17.8= new look doomsday.


Context, amateur. Basing a defenses effectiveness on points per game is ludicrous. Dallas' offense had the ball for 3/4 of the game every week. How many points can the defense give up when they aren't on the field? Maybe Dallas can control the clock and keep the defense off the field again this year, but does that make the defense great because they aren't giving up points while sitting on the sidelines? Of course it does, in your bizarro world.

Why are you a Cowboys fan? I'd love to know the backstory of why someone chooses to root for that random team in Texas. Cause you watched them on Thanksgiving in your onesies while sitting on uncle Stu's lap? It's just strange. What makes a non Texas Cowboys fan? The need to root for the "popular" team? They won all the time when you were younger so you hopped on the bandwagon like a chicken shit?


Yes, how odd. A Cowboys fan in the U.S.A.

BBS - how did you become a chucklehead? I would love to know that backstory as well...
Mr. Miserable Contrarian shows up  
BigBlueShock : 7/3/2017 10:58 pm : link
Always available to tell us all how bad the Giants are and to defend the rivals as if everything they do is perfect and the Giants suck. How nice of you! What would Giants fans do without a miserable prick like you to bring us all back down to earth? How noble of you. I'm sure these two Cowboys fans really appreciate your input. Makes you "unbiased", ya know? Isn't that what you're striving for?
Not sticking up for them  
Jimmy Googs : 7/3/2017 11:01 pm : link
at all.

Just looking to find the weakness in the thread and saw your post...
How ironic  
BigBlueShock : 7/3/2017 11:06 pm : link
The clown that tries to play the unbiased contrarian at every turn is surfing through a thread for a reason to pounce. Has nothing to do with me calling youbout for being a completely reactionary imbecile on the other thread? Of course not.
It really is coincidental  
Jimmy Googs : 7/3/2017 11:10 pm : link
but i was able to spot the weakest poster on several threads.

Just happened to be you...
RE: Mr. Miserable Contrarian shows up  
allstarjim : 7/3/2017 11:12 pm : link
In comment 13518895 BigBlueShock said:
Quote:
Always available to tell us all how bad the Giants are and to defend the rivals as if everything they do is perfect and the Giants suck. How nice of you! What would Giants fans do without a miserable prick like you to bring us all back down to earth? How noble of you. I'm sure these two Cowboys fans really appreciate your input. Makes you "unbiased", ya know? Isn't that what you're striving for?


Who would that be? I don't think you are talking about me, because I'm pretty high on the Giants.
Haha  
BigBlueShock : 7/3/2017 11:17 pm : link
You sound like someone that got owned. Foaming at the mouth and went to other threads for "retaliation". Child's play.

Ha ha  
Jimmy Googs : 7/3/2017 11:19 pm : link
I really didn't but sure enough, there you were...
RE: RE: Mr. Miserable Contrarian shows up  
BigBlueShock : 7/3/2017 11:22 pm : link
In comment 13518899 allstarjim said:
Quote:
In comment 13518895 BigBlueShock said:


Quote:


Always available to tell us all how bad the Giants are and to defend the rivals as if everything they do is perfect and the Giants suck. How nice of you! What would Giants fans do without a miserable prick like you to bring us all back down to earth? How noble of you. I'm sure these two Cowboys fans really appreciate your input. Makes you "unbiased", ya know? Isn't that what you're striving for?



Who would that be? I don't think you are talking about me, because I'm pretty high on the Giants.

No, absolutely not. Jimmy Googs is the miserable contrarian. Always thinks he has to be the "voice of reason" and shit on the Gisnts while praising every other team in the league. It happens in every thread that we talk about opposing teams. I guess he thinks it makes him a smarter fan.
How awful you are BBS. Rude and belligerant  
Jimmy Googs : 7/3/2017 11:25 pm : link
every step of the way.

I do think I am both reasonable and smart, but only because reading your posts give me an ego-boost...
RE: How awful you are BBS. Rude and belligerant  
BigBlueShock : 7/3/2017 11:44 pm : link
In comment 13518904 Jimmy Googs said:
Quote:
every step of the way.

I do think I am both reasonable and smart, but only because reading your posts give me an ego-boost...

Eh, I'm done ruining this thread. I don't find you particularly reasonable or smart, but nothing I say will change the way you post. I wish you weren't so damn negative and contrarian but it is what it is. We are all Giants fans in the end.
I wish you would stop ruining threads. Be a fan that can actually  
Jimmy Googs : 7/3/2017 11:59 pm : link
talk about the good and the bad without the extreme stigma either way.

If you can't, well then I know I have you pegged correctly...

record  
Simms : 7/4/2017 2:04 pm : link
We can say what we want. but the birds have owed us for the most part ... so until we sweep them for a few seasons...
RE: Philly beat the Giants last year  
elbowj : 7/4/2017 2:47 pm : link
In comment 13518732 annexOPR said:
Quote:
Have a solid OL/DL, 1 of the best safeties, and their receiving corp is greatly improved from last year. DBG and Agholar are now Alshon and Smith (who's stats on the 9ers are irrelevant). Mathews in the slot. Ertz at TE. You don't have to like Alshon or smith to know they are still better than what they trotted out last year.

Philly has a better receiving corp, a better defense, and a solid OL. On top of being an annual pain in the ass ... I don't care about last years records, Dallas is nothing special - at all, and they've done nothing to improve this offseason. Philly has.

I think the Giants are by far the most talented team ... but Philly's matchup scares me more than Dallas. Eagles DL is legit, Jenkins is great, and they have weapons now at receiver + Ertz to really do some damage if Wentz progresses.

Dallas has a great OL (with new starters) and Zeke. That's it.


Philly's better defense has been "better" in each of the last three seasons. They've given up more yards and allowed more points in each of the last three seasons. Their receivers aren't better. Dallas did the same thing they always do in the offseason and so did Philly. Which of those approaches would you consider to be more likely to have similar results?
yardage and points  
David in LA : 7/4/2017 2:59 pm : link
is also tied into how long their offense is staying on the field. Dallas' defense looks passable, because the running game can sustain drives and grind down the clock. No fan who really follows the NFC East would honestly say "give me Dallas' defense on paper over Philly's".
RE: yardage and points  
elbowj : 7/4/2017 4:10 pm : link
In comment 13519192 David in LA said:
Quote:
is also tied into how long their offense is staying on the field. Dallas' defense looks passable, because the running game can sustain drives and grind down the clock. No fan who really follows the NFC East would honestly say "give me Dallas' defense on paper over Philly's".


No doubt. But if you're not allowing points and are showing consistent improvement the idea that they're trash and are sure to fail is likely more biased than an honest assessment. So it seems like it would be appropriate to add some facts to the OP's massive oversimplification.
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