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Are the EAgles more of a threat than Dallas?

grizz299 : 7/2/2017 7:57 am
They were tearing up the league last year before RT Lane Johnson got hurt. Their point differential was positive and suggestive of how dominant they were.
I like Prescott and think he'll move forward this year, but I like Wentz better and his pedigree seemingly suggests that his second-year advancement will be exponential and is more certain than Precott's. I saw glimpses of potential that was off the charts, with a super strong arm, leadership abilities and much more than merely mobile.
They added a superb vet receiver (Jeffries?) to what had been a very weak corp. That alone should provide a significant upgrade.
Mgmt. has demonstrated that they're way above "competent".
The are somewhat dependent on a corner they drafted with a knee injury, but the first round DE could be downright scary and move that allready capable front seven to dominant. And, unlike Dallas, who we match up well with, Philly's front seven might exploit our offensive line - meanin that if we match up well with Dallas, Philly matches up well with us.
Dallas is losing three defensive backfield starters and two defensive linemen (one through suspension). They picked darn near on the bottom of the draft and are lookin for rooks to fill those holes (for the most part though Brown, Scarndrick and Jones return).
And Dallas's schedule is brutal too. How does a New secondary look against OBJ, Marshall, Ephram, Vereen & Shepard? They face Julio Jones early too. That's a darn tough way to open.
One has to like their offense, but there's two new linemen and everything went right for them last year.
I don't understand Vegas or so many of TV/s pundits who have made Dallas a heavy favorite. I can see them being excellent again, but I think this edition could just as easily struggle. We've been looking at each other, but Wash and Philly are so dramatically improved that I can see them in the hunt too.
FAct is, I've seen this division be very tough and competitive at the top, but I don't see a last place team among the four and while I think we could be over the top crazy good, I also think anything could happen and surprises are going to be more likely than not.
Curious, to see how other - more knowledgeable than me - posters see it.
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RE: SGMen  
Dan in the Springs : 7/6/2017 9:40 am : link
In comment 13520730 UConn4523 said:
Quote:
that's exactly my point. No matter what happens there's apparently no downside and only upside for the Cowboys. Coming on this thread you'd think we were talking about the Patriots.


This is where I'm at with elbowj. I think Dallas is the team to beat - but can't seem to get elbowj to concede ANYTHING. What's wrong with admitting that some of the events over the past 4-5 months could set Dallas back just a little? I like to chat football with guys who are realists - have no real interest in doing it with guys who cannot admit any step backwards and rest entirely on their team's upside. It's too bad.
RE: RE: SGMen  
SGMen : 7/6/2017 9:47 am : link
In comment 13520847 Dan in the Springs said:
Quote:
In comment 13520730 UConn4523 said:


Quote:


that's exactly my point. No matter what happens there's apparently no downside and only upside for the Cowboys. Coming on this thread you'd think we were talking about the Patriots.



This is where I'm at with elbowj. I think Dallas is the team to beat - but can't seem to get elbowj to concede ANYTHING. What's wrong with admitting that some of the events over the past 4-5 months could set Dallas back just a little? I like to chat football with guys who are realists - have no real interest in doing it with guys who cannot admit any step backwards and rest entirely on their team's upside. It's too bad.
I agree, everything is just "fine" despite evidence to the contrary. I call it MINIMIZING.
No way Wilson & Caroll aren't a "blow" to the team. And Ezekiel Elliott could end up being suspended as well. It ain't good.
RE: I'll never understand the troll mentality.  
figgy2989 : 7/6/2017 10:03 am : link
In comment 13520644 Klaatu said:
Quote:
I come here to talk about the football team I root for (and occasionally other things, too), but it would never occur to me to go to a message board for fans of another team just to talk trash and get into arguments. I mean, what's the point?

I just don't get it, but then I've always been happy with the size of my penis, and I never felt the need to compensate for any "shortcomings" by getting into fights with strangers.

Heavy sigh.


I don't get it either. It takes a special kind of person with no life to troll other teams message boards with the sole intent to ignite arguments
This is a typical..  
FatMan in Charlotte : 7/6/2017 10:22 am : link
response from a Dallas fan:

Quote:
NO
fanatic II : 7/2/2017 12:15 pm : link : reply
Since 2006 Dallas has competed for the NFC East title into week 17. The two exceptions were 2010 and 2015 when Romo was injured. Last year was the exception when Romo was injured and Dallas competed for the division.

If the last 11 years are any indication it would predict that the division will go through Dallas.


History is funny. Since 2006, Dallas have finished 3rd or 4th in the division 4 times. They finished 2nd 3 times, and first 4 times. If you extend back to 2000, they finished dead last the same number of times as first.

The difference from that view to BBI is if the Giants go 8-8 or 7-9, any talk about them competing for a division title late in the year is called a loser mentality.

Let's bottom line it. In the last 16 years, the Cowboys have made the playoffs 6 times and have two playoff wins.

In the same period, the Giants have made the Super Bowl three times with two rings.
But...  
lono801 : 7/6/2017 10:43 am : link
These Cowboys go to 11...
RE: This is a typical..  
fanatic II : 7/6/2017 12:44 pm : link
In comment 13520921 FatMan in Charlotte said:
Quote:
response from a Dallas fan:



Quote:


NO
fanatic II : 7/2/2017 12:15 pm : link : reply
Since 2006 Dallas has competed for the NFC East title into week 17. The two exceptions were 2010 and 2015 when Romo was injured. Last year was the exception when Romo was injured and Dallas competed for the division.

If the last 11 years are any indication it would predict that the division will go through Dallas.



History is funny. Since 2006, Dallas have finished 3rd or 4th in the division 4 times. They finished 2nd 3 times, and first 4 times. If you extend back to 2000, they finished dead last the same number of times as first.

The difference from that view to BBI is if the Giants go 8-8 or 7-9, any talk about them competing for a division title late in the year is called a loser mentality.

Let's bottom line it. In the last 16 years, the Cowboys have made the playoffs 6 times and have two playoff wins.

In the same period, the Giants have made the Super Bowl three times with two rings.


The question of the thread was "who is the greater threat".

I pointed out since 2006(when Romo began to start) Dallas has been in the run for the division or playoffs right up to week 17. The only years that didn't occur was in 2010 and 2015 when Romo was hurt.

If you go by this past history it would say to you that Dallas will be in the run for the division or playoffs right up to the last game and thus the greater threat.

It has nothing to do with winning, it has to do with the team you believe will be there at the end competing against you for the division or playoff spot. That answer is Dallas.
RE: RE: This is a typical..  
SGMen : 7/6/2017 2:05 pm : link
In comment 13521167 fanatic II said:
Quote:
In comment 13520921 FatMan in Charlotte said:


Quote:


response from a Dallas fan:



Quote:


NO
fanatic II : 7/2/2017 12:15 pm : link : reply
Since 2006 Dallas has competed for the NFC East title into week 17. The two exceptions were 2010 and 2015 when Romo was injured. Last year was the exception when Romo was injured and Dallas competed for the division.

If the last 11 years are any indication it would predict that the division will go through Dallas.



History is funny. Since 2006, Dallas have finished 3rd or 4th in the division 4 times. They finished 2nd 3 times, and first 4 times. If you extend back to 2000, they finished dead last the same number of times as first.

The difference from that view to BBI is if the Giants go 8-8 or 7-9, any talk about them competing for a division title late in the year is called a loser mentality.

Let's bottom line it. In the last 16 years, the Cowboys have made the playoffs 6 times and have two playoff wins.

In the same period, the Giants have made the Super Bowl three times with two rings.



The question of the thread was "who is the greater threat".

I pointed out since 2006(when Romo began to start) Dallas has been in the run for the division or playoffs right up to week 17. The only years that didn't occur was in 2010 and 2015 when Romo was hurt.

If you go by this past history it would say to you that Dallas will be in the run for the division or playoffs right up to the last game and thus the greater threat.

It has nothing to do with winning, it has to do with the team you believe will be there at the end competing against you for the division or playoff spot. That answer is Dallas.
The Cowboys will be in it until the end. Their offense is too strong not to win some close games and such.
But I still think the defection on defense plus the potential suspensions will hurt them early and a slow start is very likely. If the Giants offense can't exploit that secondary, well, what can I say I'd be surprised.
RE: RE: RE: This is a typical..  
Dan in the Springs : 7/6/2017 3:58 pm : link
In comment 13521255 SGMen said:
Quote:
The Cowboys will be in it until the end. Their offense is too strong not to win some close games and such.
But I still think the defection on defense plus the potential suspensions will hurt them early and a slow start is very likely. If the Giants offense can't exploit that secondary, well, what can I say I'd be surprised.


100% agree and it's foolish to write Dallas off altogether. They are the team to beat, but on opening night I expect our offense should be able to put up points and move the ball in the air against that defense. I also will be very disappointed if we can't do that, provided we're relatively healthy.

I'm going to be disappointed if our defense lets them control the ground game too, but that is far from a given. With a new DT joining the starting DL and a new MLB, I could definitely see them moving the ball on us. I'm not hoping that's the case. I'd like to see us gel on defense from day one, but let's not pretend that we won't have a brand new signal caller on defense at Mike who could take some adjusting of his own. And if we're fair we'll acknowledge that his biggest test of the season may be against the Dallas running game on opening night.
Now, about the Eagles...  
Dan in the Springs : 7/6/2017 4:00 pm : link
it's ridiculous to expect anything other than their best when we play the Eagles, given how we match up with them. I'm hoping to split games with them. I think they've made some good moves, but I definitely don't expect them to be able to have made up the ground that Dallas has on them. Don't write them off and they could still be in it week 17, but I wouldn't give them much of a chance at being a top seed in the NFC, while I think both Dallas and NYG have a shot at that position.

So fanaticII is correct when he says that Dallas is more of a threat than Philly. Anything else is wishful thinking on Giants fans part, imo.
This is a typical..  
SGMen : 7/6/2017 4:05 pm : link
In comment 13521344 Dan in the Springs said:
Quote:
In comment 13521255 SGMen said:


Quote:


The Cowboys will be in it until the end. Their offense is too strong not to win some close games and such.
But I still think the defection on defense plus the potential suspensions will hurt them early and a slow start is very likely. If the Giants offense can't exploit that secondary, well, what can I say I'd be surprised.



100% agree and it's foolish to write Dallas off altogether. They are the team to beat, but on opening night I expect our offense should be able to put up points and move the ball in the air against that defense. I also will be very disappointed if we can't do that, provided we're relatively healthy.

I'm going to be disappointed if our defense lets them control the ground game too, but that is far from a given. With a new DT joining the starting DL and a new MLB, I could definitely see them moving the ball on us. I'm not hoping that's the case. I'd like to see us gel on defense from day one, but let's not pretend that we won't have a brand new signal caller on defense at Mike who could take some adjusting of his own. And if we're fair we'll acknowledge that his biggest test of the season may be against the Dallas running game on opening night.
Ah,but neither DT R. Thomas, J. Bromley or MLB BJ Goodson are new to the team so they know the defense. They aren't new bodies thrown into the fire. Yes, BJ Goodson is likely making his first start opening day but he's a smart guy. We also have MLB Robinson who will play a bunch.

I wonder if JT Thomas heals up enough and sticks since he's solid in coverage?
FB Outsiders 2016 DEFENSE EFFICIENCY RATINGS  
Semipro Lineman : 7/6/2017 10:41 pm : link
Football Outsiders have Philly as their sixth ranked defense, Cowboys as their 18th ranked defense and the Giants second. Just food for thought
Link - ( New Window )
RE: FB Outsiders 2016 DEFENSE EFFICIENCY RATINGS  
SGMen : 7/6/2017 11:09 pm : link
In comment 13521644 Semipro Lineman said:
Quote:
Football Outsiders have Philly as their sixth ranked defense, Cowboys as their 18th ranked defense and the Giants second. Just food for thought Link - ( New Window )
Interesting. These rankings mean more to me than the pure Points Allowed statistics; yards allowed.

Strength of schedule also counts.
RE: RE: FB Outsiders 2016 DEFENSE EFFICIENCY RATINGS  
elbowj : 7/7/2017 3:13 pm : link
In comment 13521654 SGMen said:
Quote:
In comment 13521644 Semipro Lineman said:


Quote:


Football Outsiders have Philly as their sixth ranked defense, Cowboys as their 18th ranked defense and the Giants second. Just food for thought Link - ( New Window )

Interesting. These rankings mean more to me than the pure Points Allowed statistics; yards allowed.

Strength of schedule also counts.


FO has Dallas winning the division and the Giamts at 8-8.
You keep referencing..  
FatMan in Charlotte : 7/7/2017 3:20 pm : link
Football Outsiders, but I thought they don't make pre-season predictions this early.

Are you sure you aren't looking at 2016, just as you thought point differential crossed over years instead of being predictive of the current year.

I'm starting to think your grasp of statistics is pretty fucking shitty.
LOL..  
FatMan in Charlotte : 7/7/2017 3:27 pm : link
I actually just saw their post-draft predictions.

They don't have a single team projected to be below 5-11 in record. That would be the 1st time that happened since a 16 game schedule was released. The probability of that happening is extremely, extremely low.

When a company who lives on statistics posts something that absurd, I'm not sure using their metrics is really going to make an argument strengthened
On July 7th, every prediction and ranking  
Jimmy Googs : 7/7/2017 3:28 pm : link
is basically fool-proof.

And for them too...
RE: On July 7th, every prediction and ranking  
SGMen : 7/7/2017 5:47 pm : link
In comment 13522464 Jimmy Googs said:
Quote:
is basically fool-proof.

And for them too...
Exactly. Just some publications thoughts. I make predictions, or rather total guesses, in my posts for FUN and that is how I take any of these publications predictions.

My guess for the Giants is 11-5 and the Cowboys 10-6, Eagles 9-7 and Skins 7-9. What does that mean? Absolutely nothing but wishful thinking.
RE: You keep referencing..  
elbowj : 7/7/2017 11:42 pm : link
In comment 13522456 FatMan in Charlotte said:
Quote:
Football Outsiders, but I thought they don't make pre-season predictions this early.

Are you sure you aren't looking at 2016, just as you thought point differential crossed over years instead of being predictive of the current year.

I'm starting to think your grasp of statistics is pretty fucking shitty.


Scoring margin is predictive from year to year and I wasn't the one who brought up FO and they made the prediction for 2017. Anything else?
RE: RE: I'll never understand the troll mentality.  
David in LA : 7/8/2017 12:01 am : link
In comment 13520889 figgy2989 said:
Quote:
In comment 13520644 Klaatu said:


Quote:


I come here to talk about the football team I root for (and occasionally other things, too), but it would never occur to me to go to a message board for fans of another team just to talk trash and get into arguments. I mean, what's the point?

I just don't get it, but then I've always been happy with the size of my penis, and I never felt the need to compensate for any "shortcomings" by getting into fights with strangers.

Heavy sigh.



I don't get it either. It takes a special kind of person with no life to troll other teams message boards with the sole intent to ignite arguments


Well, it looks like we are dealing with a very special type of loser. This is now back to back weekends for this basement dweller.
LOL..  
FatMan in Charlotte : 7/8/2017 12:46 pm : link
Quote:
Scoring margin is predictive from year to year


Keeping on typing this doesn't make it true. Scoring margin is most definitely not predictive from year to year - it may be predictive within a current year (but that isn't the point).

YAJ debunked it pretty clearly in the other thread where scoring margin in a previous year was said to be predictive of the next year's success.
RE: LOL..  
elbowj : 7/8/2017 2:13 pm : link
In comment 13523029 FatMan in Charlotte said:
Quote:


Quote:


Scoring margin is predictive from year to year



Keeping on typing this doesn't make it true. Scoring margin is most definitely not predictive from year to year - it may be predictive within a current year (but that isn't the point).

YAJ debunked it pretty clearly in the other thread where scoring margin in a previous year was said to be predictive of the next year's success.


Did you realize that the FO predictions, that you claimed didn't exist, are based on it right? Another oopsie
Never mind the professional statistics  
SGMen : 7/8/2017 4:32 pm : link
When I read up on the Cowboys today, it is impossible not to notice the suspensions, retirements (Romo, Free), age creeping (Witten), and youth on defense.

Dallas will be a threat but it will take some time. I suspect they could be off to a slow start before the defense begins to put it together.

I am hoping the Giants stay sharp and get to 5-0; Dallas 2-3.

Philly is harder for me to judge at this point. But no way you can say Dallas is clearly "better" with this off-season.
Huh??  
FatMan in Charlotte : 7/8/2017 5:42 pm : link
Quote:
Did you realize that the FO predictions, that you claimed didn't exist, are based on it right? Another oopsie


Do you mean the same FO predictions that don't have a single team lower than 5-11 this year nor do their predictive wins in total equal the predictive losses?

That's a huge "oopsie", but not on my part. You realize you're basing an argument around a system that is predicting that no team will be worse than 5-11 - which hasn't happened once since the 16 game schedule is folly, right?
RE: Huh??  
SGMen : 7/8/2017 5:59 pm : link
In comment 13523285 FatMan in Charlotte said:
Quote:


Quote:


Did you realize that the FO predictions, that you claimed didn't exist, are based on it right? Another oopsie



Do you mean the same FO predictions that don't have a single team lower than 5-11 this year nor do their predictive wins in total equal the predictive losses?

That's a huge "oopsie", but not on my part. You realize you're basing an argument around a system that is predicting that no team will be worse than 5-11 - which hasn't happened once since the 16 game schedule is folly, right?
I agree. You'll get a 3-13 clunker; a 4-12 team, maybe two even. Happens every year and it isn't going to change this year.
RE: Huh??  
elbowj : 7/8/2017 6:24 pm : link
In comment 13523285 FatMan in Charlotte said:
Quote:


Quote:


Did you realize that the FO predictions, that you claimed didn't exist, are based on it right? Another oopsie



Do you mean the same FO predictions that don't have a single team lower than 5-11 this year nor do their predictive wins in total equal the predictive losses?

That's a huge "oopsie", but not on my part. You realize you're basing an argument around a system that is predicting that no team will be worse than 5-11 - which hasn't happened once since the 16 game schedule is folly, right?


That changes the fact that it exists and is relied upon by them for their predictions how? Your position was that I made it up, that they didn't make predictions, and that it was debunked. None of those are true. They do make predictions, their predictions are based on a statistical formula designed by Daryl Morey and no salty Giants fans angry at what how they view the respective positions can change it. Seems odd that your confidence is based on your own poor knowledge and utter reliance on weak personal attacks. You were wrong and made at data. Shits funny.
Haha  
BigBlueShock : 7/8/2017 6:41 pm : link
You also used the "Vegas line" as to your evidence that Dallas is the better team going into week one. I'm convinced you have no idea how the Vegas line works either. Here's a hint...it has less than nothing to do with who "experts" think will win. And putting out a line and running with it in the gambling world in June or July is just as ridiculous as those that believe the line has anything to do with who will win.
RE: Haha  
SGMen : 7/8/2017 7:02 pm : link
In comment 13523346 BigBlueShock said:
Quote:
You also used the "Vegas line" as to your evidence that Dallas is the better team going into week one. I'm convinced you have no idea how the Vegas line works either. Here's a hint...it has less than nothing to do with who "experts" think will win. And putting out a line and running with it in the gambling world in June or July is just as ridiculous as those that believe the line has anything to do with who will win.
If I was a gambler, I'd take Giants +6 any day of the week right now. The line will be +3 by game day, watch, cause the money will roll the Giants way once people see the porous Cowboy defense go in camp.
RE: RE: The giants OL from 05-08  
djm : 7/10/2017 1:41 pm : link
In comment 13518051 elbowj said:
Quote:
In comment 13518043 djm said:


Quote:


Was every bit as good as the Dallas OL. Go ahead and compare sack and rushing totals with both units. Please. Then sprinkle in wins and losses for justice. Please. Go ahead.




All Pros
NYG OL= 1
Dallas OL= 5


Postseason success
NYG - Yes
Dallas - No.

Ok fine. I will allow that the Dallas OL is a slight tick better but make no mistake, the Giants OL DOMINATED the NFL for a good stretch of time. If the Dallas OL is better, it isn't by very much.

And please, don't sit here and tell me that Dallas doesn't get too much hype at times-- all pro accolades included and I know full well the value of the all pro nod. It's legit. Still, what I say is true.
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