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DT Hankins loss: how much of a dropoff will we truly see?

SGMen : 7/7/2017 6:31 pm
Our only notable loss this off-season was DT Jonathan Hankins, who got a rich contract from Indy who had no choice as they were devoid of DL's.

How much of a dropoff will we see inside should DT R. Thomas start (I believe he wins the job) and J. Bromley rotate in? We'll possibly see rookie DT D. Tomlinson work in more as the season goes.

My thinking is that if the Giants though enough of DT Hankins we'd have kept him for the same money. That being said, the coaches must believe the dropoff isn't all that big really. Thoughts?
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None I think once camp starts,Tomlinson will establish himself  
TheMick7 : 7/7/2017 6:39 pm : link
next to Snacks.The young man is smart,athletic & a load inside. I think he slides into Hankins spot seemlessly!
Im not worried about it at all...  
ZGiants98 : 7/7/2017 6:41 pm : link
UNLESS something happens to Snacks.... then we would have a problem. If Snacks is good to go he will suck up double teams and the guy next to him will be fine.

The biggest hit from losing Hankins was that we were forced to spend a high pick in the draft on his replacement which could have gone elsewhere had he signed. Oh well.
RE: None I think once camp starts,Tomlinson will establish himself  
SGMen : 7/7/2017 6:42 pm : link
In comment 13522649 TheMick7 said:
Quote:
next to Snacks.The young man is smart,athletic & a load inside. I think he slides into Hankins spot seemlessly!
The last rookie DT to start was Barry Cofield way back when (2005 I think). Neither Linval Joseph nor Jonathan Hankins started or even saw much playing time as rookies.

I like D. Tomlinson as a sturdy run stuffer, but he'll take some seasoning. I don't see him starting as a rookie but if he did surprise and start based on merit, well I'll take it for sure!
RE: Im not worried about it at all...  
SGMen : 7/7/2017 6:43 pm : link
In comment 13522651 ZGiants98 said:
Quote:
UNLESS something happens to Snacks.... then we would have a problem. If Snacks is good to go he will suck up double teams and the guy next to him will be fine.

The biggest hit from losing Hankins was that we were forced to spend a high pick in the draft on his replacement which could have gone elsewhere had he signed. Oh well.
Good point about the high draft pick. We'd have likely gone CB as this draft was strong at DB. But what is done is done, the Giants didn't work hard to keep him for a reason and that reason is that he just isn't as good as you'd hope.
Rookie Tomlinson and basically a rookie Mike LB  
Jimmy Googs : 7/7/2017 6:45 pm : link
in Goodson behind him. Not a good combination to have going into Dallas for game 1 with their running game. I assume they will take their lumps early in season.

Pray that Snacks is in shape and stays healthy...
RE: Rookie Tomlinson and basically a rookie Mike LB  
SGMen : 7/7/2017 6:50 pm : link
In comment 13522657 Jimmy Googs said:
Quote:
in Goodson behind him. Not a good combination to have going into Dallas for game 1 with their running game. I assume they will take their lumps early in season.

Pray that Snacks is in shape and stays healthy...
Again, I think DT Thomas starts game 1 with Bromley spelling him at times. D. Tomlinson, based on Spags remarks about him, has a lot to learn and that is understandable for a rookie.
I think Thomas starts week one also  
ZGiants98 : 7/7/2017 7:19 pm : link
with maybe Tomlinson rotating in here and there but eventually, Tomlinson will take over.
6.2134657%  
PaulN : 7/7/2017 7:25 pm : link
give or take 0.0126540%.
RE: I think Thomas starts week one also  
SGMen : 7/7/2017 7:27 pm : link
In comment 13522672 ZGiants98 said:
Quote:
with maybe Tomlinson rotating in here and there but eventually, Tomlinson will take over.
Here is the thing, there are usually only 3 DT's active on game day: DT Thomas, Bromley and Snacks. I think D. Tomlinson will learn from the sidelines and once the inevitable injuries hit he may get activated and see some snaps.

I expect D. Tomlinson to be a solid starter in this league; I suspect he'll be active more post-bye; and, he may just end up starting if he learns fast but not out of the gates.
Hankins  
annexOPR : 7/7/2017 7:30 pm : link
the most overrated BBI player in recent memory?
RE: Hankins  
SGMen : 7/7/2017 7:33 pm : link
In comment 13522686 annexOPR said:
Quote:
the most overrated BBI player in recent memory?
Maybe? He had 7 sacks a few years back and I think that skewed his value in many people's minds, including my own. Indy overpaid cause they had no choice, needing a body for that position.

I hope we get a compensatory pick for Hankins, a 5th or 6th.
Hankins loss will hurt,  
Pepe LePugh : 7/7/2017 7:42 pm : link
but still a stout defense. Last year we could put 8 superior defenders on the field at any time. Seven still in place. If injuries stay at last year's level we're in good shape. But Shepard, Hall, Wade, Sensabaugh are gone. Something like 1600 snaps combined. If injuries go back to the levels seen at the end of Coughlin era, loss of Hankins plus depth could spell trouble.
RE: Hankins loss will hurt,  
SGMen : 7/7/2017 7:47 pm : link
In comment 13522699 Pepe LePugh said:
Quote:
but still a stout defense. Last year we could put 8 superior defenders on the field at any time. Seven still in place. If injuries stay at last year's level we're in good shape. But Shepard, Hall, Wade, Sensabaugh are gone. Something like 1600 snaps combined. If injuries go back to the levels seen at the end of Coughlin era, loss of Hankins plus depth could spell trouble.
Hall, Wade, Sensabaugh all pretty much stunk when pressed into major duty. I'm hoping M. Hunter and M. Thompson really step up.

I think DT Hankins is better than Thomas, Bromley or Bryant but by how much?? I'm quietly hoping J. Bromley finally shows why we took him in the 3rd round. I'm not sure what to make of veteran Bryant other than he is a camp body with starting experience who could push for a roster spot?
SG  
Pepe LePugh : 7/7/2017 7:57 pm : link
I'm hoping D Thompson steps up as FS with coverage skills, which could make loss of JAG backups less of an impact. But I still think Hankins is a loss that will have to be absorbed and until newbies show otherwise, loss of depth still concerns me.
RE: SG  
SGMen : 7/7/2017 8:01 pm : link
In comment 13522710 Pepe LePugh said:
Quote:
I'm hoping D Thompson steps up as FS with coverage skills, which could make loss of JAG backups less of an impact. But I still think Hankins is a loss that will have to be absorbed and until newbies show otherwise, loss of depth still concerns me.
Without question, compared to what we have on the roster right now, Jonathan Hankins defection to Indy has to go in the "LOSS" column. But I'm just not sure how big of a loss he really is considering the Giants didn't really pursue him hard?

DT Bryant could be a darkhorse to stick even over Thomas or Bromley. Nothing would surprise me. I'm not saying it will happen but just that we don't have a super talented group next to Snacks.
Hankins  
annexOPR : 7/7/2017 8:30 pm : link
had the worst season of his career last season.
Overrated. - ( New Window )
RE:  
Klaatu : 7/7/2017 8:30 pm : link
In comment 13522652 SGMen said:
Quote:

The last rookie DT to start was Barry Cofield way back when (2005 I think). Neither Linval Joseph nor Jonathan Hankins started or even saw much playing time as rookies.

I like D. Tomlinson as a sturdy run stuffer, but he'll take some seasoning. I don't see him starting as a rookie but if he did surprise and start based on merit, well I'll take it for sure!


Hmmm...

Quote:
I don't think the Giants have had a rookie DT start...
Klaatu : 7/5/2017 9:56 pm : link : reply
Since Barry Cofield, 2006. Not even fellow second-round picks Linval Joseph and Johnathan Hankins started as rookies, although each saw some playing time, so I wouldn't expect Tomlinson to start next to Snacks this year unless one of two things happens. In camp, Tomlinson proves himself to be light-years better than Robert Thomas and Jay Bromley (and Corbin Bryant, too, I suppose), or a couple of those guys get hurt (God forbid) and Tomlinson has to fill in.
RE: Hankins  
SGMen : 7/7/2017 8:34 pm : link
In comment 13522736 annexOPR said:
Quote:
had the worst season of his career last season. Overrated. - ( New Window )
Not good, but as noted in the article, Hankins played out of position. I honestly hope he does well in Indy.
Would you care to explain why Indy was devoid of DLs?  
Klaatu : 7/7/2017 8:49 pm : link
Or did you just lift this from the same thread?

Quote:

Klaatu : 7/6/2017 7:39 am...
As for Hankins, he's lucky that the DT situation in Indy was such a mess...
RE: Would you care to explain why Indy was devoid of DLs?  
SGMen : 7/7/2017 8:53 pm : link
In comment 13522750 Klaatu said:
Quote:
Or did you just lift this from the same thread?



Quote:



Klaatu : 7/6/2017 7:39 am...
As for Hankins, he's lucky that the DT situation in Indy was such a mess...

I read. :)
Yeah, you do. You read my posts and then re-post them as your own.  
Klaatu : 7/7/2017 8:54 pm : link
No acknowledgement. Not cool.
RE: Yeah, you do. You read my posts and then re-post them as your own.  
SGMen : 7/7/2017 8:59 pm : link
In comment 13522754 Klaatu said:
Quote:
No acknowledgement. Not cool.
First, almost all posts are taken from another's writeup. I actually don't recall whether I got the Indy reference from you or from elsewhere, matters not, but if it makes you feel better:

Klaatu pointed out that Indy was lacking DL's and that opening things up for Hankins to get a nice contract. My sincere apologies for not giving him credit for that insight.
No, your bullshit 'apology' doesn't make me feel better.  
Klaatu : 7/7/2017 9:07 pm : link
And if memory serves, this isn't the first time you've pulled this kind of crap. You've done it before.
RE: No, your bullshit 'apology' doesn't make me feel better.  
SGMen : 7/7/2017 9:12 pm : link
In comment 13522760 Klaatu said:
Quote:
And if memory serves, this isn't the first time you've pulled this kind of crap. You've done it before.
I've been on this board since its first year, over 21 years, and to the best of my knowledge you are the first person to ever have an issue with my posts.

Yes, last year some folks laid into me for my "offensive projections" (which were all wrong and overdone) but that I could understand. You will also notice I never get into the negativity with anyone. I'm sorry you are taking things so personally, I did all I could with an apology.

As for your comment regarding this isn't the first time I've "copied from another" I don't doubt it. I've taken for example Eric's writeups and used his info regarding a player, etc. I don't footnote and credit like college.

If you don't want to accept a real apology, nothing I can do but move on and continue to talk football as we head to training camp. This is a football board, not a popularity contest, at least for me.
RE: Hankins loss will hurt,  
annexOPR : 7/7/2017 9:14 pm : link
In comment 13522699 Pepe LePugh said:
Quote:
but still a stout defense. Last year we could put 8 superior defenders on the field at any time. Seven still in place. If injuries stay at last year's level we're in good shape. But Shepard, Hall, Wade, Sensabaugh are gone. Something like 1600 snaps combined. If injuries go back to the levels seen at the end of Coughlin era, loss of Hankins plus depth could spell trouble.


Hankins was not a superior player, and hasn't been for 2 years. Most overrated Giant in recent memory.
RE: RE: Hankins loss will hurt,  
SGMen : 7/7/2017 9:16 pm : link
In comment 13522766 annexOPR said:
Quote:
In comment 13522699 Pepe LePugh said:


Quote:


but still a stout defense. Last year we could put 8 superior defenders on the field at any time. Seven still in place. If injuries stay at last year's level we're in good shape. But Shepard, Hall, Wade, Sensabaugh are gone. Something like 1600 snaps combined. If injuries go back to the levels seen at the end of Coughlin era, loss of Hankins plus depth could spell trouble.



Hankins was not a superior player, and hasn't been for 2 years. Most overrated Giant in recent memory.
DT Hankins was better suited backing up Snacks and maybe playing spot DT duties next to him in rotation. But you don't pay a "back-up" that kind of money.

And again, I hope we get a compensatory pick for Hankins, a 5th or at worst a 6th would be nice.
RE: Im not worried about it at all...  
mfsd : 7/7/2017 9:18 pm : link
In comment 13522651 ZGiants98 said:
Quote:
UNLESS something happens to Snacks.... then we would have a problem. If Snacks is good to go he will suck up double teams and the guy next to him will be fine.

The biggest hit from losing Hankins was that we were forced to spend a high pick in the draft on his replacement which could have gone elsewhere had he signed. Oh well.


True about spending high draft pick, but not overpaying for Hankins was a big picture decision. With decisions to make about whether to pay Pugh or Richburg or both, plus a monster OBJ deal coming soon, not allocating another block of cap space to DL, where we're already paying a ton for JPP, OV and Snacks was a reasonable decision

And full disclosure, I was in the sign Hankins camp at the time, but understand the reason not to.

As for replacing him, I agree that will be an open competition going into camp. Tomlinson could well earn the spot early, McAdoo showed in year one he has no qualms playing rookies. By all accounts so far Tomlinson has the brains to match his athletic traits, learning his assignments shouldn't be too much for him
It doesn't take much to say something like...  
Klaatu : 7/7/2017 9:19 pm : link
"As so-and-so said in another thread..." I've done it myself when it's warranted. Anything less is plagiarism, no matter how long you've been on the board.
RE: It doesn't take much to say something like...  
SGMen : 7/7/2017 9:20 pm : link
In comment 13522774 Klaatu said:
Quote:
"As so-and-so said in another thread..." I've done it myself when it's warranted. Anything less is plagiarism, no matter how long you've been on the board.
Ok, in the future, I'll try and remember to do that. Fair enough?
Hey  
Bill2 : 7/7/2017 9:20 pm : link
I knew Klautu before Hankins was a FA. What do I get?

Hope it's a really really big apology.

( just joking guys). Hello to SG and Klautu.

I echo the poster that the damage is the 2nd slot not being available for a OL or DB
RE: RE: Im not worried about it at all...  
SGMen : 7/7/2017 9:26 pm : link
In comment 13522773 mfsd said:
Quote:
In comment 13522651 ZGiants98 said:


Quote:


UNLESS something happens to Snacks.... then we would have a problem. If Snacks is good to go he will suck up double teams and the guy next to him will be fine.

The biggest hit from losing Hankins was that we were forced to spend a high pick in the draft on his replacement which could have gone elsewhere had he signed. Oh well.



True about spending high draft pick, but not overpaying for Hankins was a big picture decision. With decisions to make about whether to pay Pugh or Richburg or both, plus a monster OBJ deal coming soon, not allocating another block of cap space to DL, where we're already paying a ton for JPP, OV and Snacks was a reasonable decision

And full disclosure, I was in the sign Hankins camp at the time, but understand the reason not to.

As for replacing him, I agree that will be an open competition going into camp. Tomlinson could well earn the spot early, McAdoo showed in year one he has no qualms playing rookies. By all accounts so far Tomlinson has the brains to match his athletic traits, learning his assignments shouldn't be too much for him
I'd love for D. Tomlinson to win the job based on merit; and, win the job right out of the gates would mean we really picked a solid player since Thomas, Bryant and Bromley all have real game experience.

I think D. Tomlinson will be eased into the starting rotation. He is still a rookie and Spags even noted he had a lot to learn so ????
Can't answer that  
UberAlias : 7/7/2017 10:20 pm : link
Because we have no idea what we have in D. Tomlinson. Bromley and others are at best a question mark. It is really hard to evaluate the impact of a DT unless you study the tape, know what you are looking at, and understand the defensive scheme. Glad to see so many here have these qualifications. I can't say I do. So my answer is: remains to be seen.
RE: Can't answer that  
SGMen : 7/7/2017 10:38 pm : link
In comment 13522817 UberAlias said:
Quote:
Because we have no idea what we have in D. Tomlinson. Bromley and others are at best a question mark. It is really hard to evaluate the impact of a DT unless you study the tape, know what you are looking at, and understand the defensive scheme. Glad to see so many here have these qualifications. I can't say I do. So my answer is: remains to be seen.
True, and this smart assessment brings me back to the coaches and staff not pursuing DT J. Hankins too hard in free agency: he wasn't overly good at the position he played.

I doubt they saw R. Thomas or J. Bromley as "equivalents" but I am thinking they didn't think they'd be a dramatic dropoff either. D. Tomlinson, though he spent 5 years at Alabama and their pro-style defense, still has a learning curve as noted by Spags. So it does remain to be seen where we are in the next 8 or so weeks. Many questions at DT outside of Snacks.

I mean, I would not be shocked if veteran Bryant beat out R. Thomas or J. Bromley? Nothing would surprise me as no one is super solid. D. Tomlinson does have the most upside though and I'm just making an educated guess that he'll be worked in as the year goes on. Too much talent and upside.
RE: RE: RE: Hankins loss will hurt,  
compton : 7/7/2017 10:39 pm : link
In comment 13522769 SGMen said:
Quote:
In comment 13522766 annexOPR said:


Quote:


In comment 13522699 Pepe LePugh said:


Quote:






Hankins was not a superior player, and hasn't been for 2 years. Most overrated Giant in recent memory.

DT Hankins was better suited backing up Snacks and maybe playing spot DT duties next to him in rotation. But you don't pay a "back-up" that kind of money.

And again, I hope we get a compensatory pick for Hankins, a 5th or at worst a 6th would be nice.


Ah come on now. Hankins was much more than that. The guy was a solid starter.
RE: RE: RE: RE: Hankins loss will hurt,  
SGMen : 7/7/2017 10:42 pm : link
In comment 13522830 compton said:
Quote:
In comment 13522769 SGMen said:


Quote:


In comment 13522766 annexOPR said:


Quote:


In comment 13522699 Pepe LePugh said:


Quote:






Hankins was not a superior player, and hasn't been for 2 years. Most overrated Giant in recent memory.

DT Hankins was better suited backing up Snacks and maybe playing spot DT duties next to him in rotation. But you don't pay a "back-up" that kind of money.

And again, I hope we get a compensatory pick for Hankins, a 5th or at worst a 6th would be nice.



Ah come on now. Hankins was much more than that. The guy was a solid starter.
If you played Hankins where Snacks plays, he is solid as that is his natural position. But Snacks is the best there. The Giants had to make a choice not to overpay a guy who was maybe below average for the position he played.

I'm still going with veteran R. Thomas to start game 1; J. Bromely to back him up; R. Okwara and maybe D. Taylor moving inside on 3rd and must pass downs.
Not worried...  
sb from NYT Forum : 7/7/2017 11:03 pm : link
...he had one good year (2014) on an otherwise horrible defense. He never made any kind of difference.
I liked Hankins but really last season's performance was  
idinkido : 7/8/2017 6:15 am : link
The point is that Hankins is a competent Tackle and a line that has Snacks, JPP, and Vernon, all is needed is a competent player who can be relied on to do his job.
Not everyone on a team is a star. Teams are also made up of players who just do their job, being reliable, and being a complementary piece. I believe the Giants have the personnel needed to affectively replace Hankins and the Tomlinson pick was a wise choice.
Hankins was "MEH" last season  
idinkido : 7/8/2017 6:17 am : link
....
I think we're all going to be surprised as to how well Robert Thomas  
No Where Man : 7/8/2017 7:23 am : link
will play in our defense. He is a physical load against the run.
It's a concern  
UConn4523 : 7/8/2017 7:42 am : link
but one that's manageable. Anytime you lose a starter there's going to be a question on how the void is filled, but I like our odds for 2 obvious reasons; Snacks and our success rate with young DTs.
I used to get very upset when Giants lost  
joeinpa : 7/8/2017 8:28 am : link
Significant players to free agency. Now. Unless it s anan L. T., Carson, Strahan type player, doesn't bother me too much

I ve learned most of these guys can be replaced.
Man, you really are something.  
Klaatu : 7/8/2017 8:38 am : link
Four days ago, in this thread, you said that you didn't think much of Robert Thomas and that you thought he would likely get cut, and that Corbin Bryant would make the team.

Now, you're predicting that Thomas will start next to Snacks (and no mention of Bryant at all).

So, what changed in the past four day?
Some Defensive Tackle thoughts  
Jimmy Googs : 7/8/2017 8:51 am : link
- I don't even recall R. Thomas playing last year. I think i read he had like 50 snaps but he often never dressed. So not sure why several of you have him as clear starter despite the depth chart.

- It didn't happen a lot, but when teams were running on the Giants on drives in the 2nd half of the season, you would often have seen Bromley on the field.

- Snacks often made comments the Giants need to re-sign Hankins. Not surprising, but wonder if he made the comment not b/c Hankins was the goods, but b/c the others really stink.

- Give Tomlinson a chance. And I mean early...
RE: Some Defensive Tackle thoughts  
Klaatu : 7/8/2017 9:13 am : link
In comment 13522934 Jimmy Googs said:
Quote:
- I don't even recall R. Thomas playing last year. I think i read he had like 50 snaps but he often never dressed. So not sure why several of you have him as clear starter despite the depth chart.

- It didn't happen a lot, but when teams were running on the Giants on drives in the 2nd half of the season, you would often have seen Bromley on the field.

- Snacks often made comments the Giants need to re-sign Hankins. Not surprising, but wonder if he made the comment not b/c Hankins was the goods, but b/c the others really stink.

- Give Tomlinson a chance. And I mean early...


Thomas missed the first half of the season with an illness, but even when he was healthy he was used sparingly.

In the spring, though, Thomas and Bromley were splitting time with the first and second teams in both the base defense and the nickel. Tomlinson was relegated to the third team throughout the spring.
Thomas wasn't signed until September 3 last year  
Peter from NH (formerly CT) : 7/8/2017 9:17 am : link
then he got sick immediately and was out for almost a month. So things were pretty well stacked against him playing much early. They seem to really like him though.

That isn't to say that he is a starter. He bounced around a lot in his first year in the league. Hard to know what he is.
Got it. Lets see how long Tomlinson stays with 3rd team this summer.  
Jimmy Googs : 7/8/2017 9:20 am : link
And just to be clear, I wrote my post without taking the comments from another's writeup. So didn't warrant any acknowledgment of another poster.

:-)
Tomlinson  
annexOPR : 7/8/2017 9:53 am : link
"Prototypical Alabama defensive tackle who wins with leverage, power and technique. Tomlinson's powerful frame and ability to stack the run between the tackles could make him a scheme-flexible target in the draft. While he is likely to be drafted as a run bully, his history of operating in Alabama's stunt-and-twist-oriented defense could help keep him on the field on third downs for teams using a similar concept. Tomlinson has a chance to become an early starter and should work into a defensive line rotation immediately."

Hankins will not be missed. He wasn't even good last year. JPP/OV/Snacks and a tackling dummy would still be 1 of the best defensive lines in football.
Hey Klaatu & SGMen  
bigfish703 : 7/8/2017 12:32 pm : link
Let's drop it fellows. I always enjoy both of your contributions.
RE: Hey Klaatu & SGMen  
SGMen : 7/8/2017 1:13 pm : link
In comment 13523017 bigfish703 said:
Quote:
Let's drop it fellows. I always enjoy both of your contributions.
Amen, could not agree more.
RE: I think we're all going to be surprised as to how well Robert Thomas  
SGMen : 7/8/2017 1:17 pm : link
In comment 13522902 No Where Man said:
Quote:
will play in our defense. He is a physical load against the run.
If R. Thomas does step up and become a solid run stuffer we are set. I'd love for a great two-way player, sure, but you can't have everything.
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