I don't know about a "secret superstar". He was an UDFA , was thrown right into the fire, and after a week or two to adjust he didn't stand out as a glaring weak link. Which might not sound like an endorsement, but he was surrounded by pro bowl caliber talent in the secondary.
Only Keanu Neal had a higher rating among rookie Safeties (and it wasn't by much).
However, the PFWA gave the nod to Karl Joseph (along with Neal) for their 2016 All-Rookie Team. Statistically, you'd have to go with Joseph. In two fewer games played (with five fewer starts, Joseph had more tackles than Adams (60 vs. 45) and one more PDef (6 vs. 5). They each had one INT.
Still, you're talking about two 1st round picks in Neal and Joseph vs. a UDFA who was cut after camp, signed to the PS, and then promoted to the active squad out of necessity. To say that he exceeded expectations would be something of an understatement in my opinion.
I still think a healthy Darian Thompson is a much better option than Adams, but like the old saying goes, "The best ability is availability," and Thompson has a lot to prove in that regard. We could do a lot worse than Adams if Thompson is a no-go again.
I remember a few games where he failed to make a tackle or bit on play action leaving him out of position to make a play. I do think that he played adequately enough to be an ok partner with LC. I also think he'll be much better this year after gaining all that experience as well. Regardless of who wins the FS battle this summer, in camp, it will be very nice to have depth at the position for once.
With that said I still think that Darian Thompson should be the starter opposite Collins. Adams provides great depth but I think he was helped out by the strong play of the CB's.
That being said, a year's experience knowing this defense, I have no problem with him as possible backup material.....but as a starter, no....
PFF is a joke.....when they rank someone on another team you know nothing about, you take it with a grain of salt.....but when you have watched a player all season, and they come out with a stupid ranking like this, even that grain of salt goes out the window....
Always done a great job coaching up safeties. With thompson back we may see the 3 safety packages alot this yr. So many schemes can be run with this deep secondary. Probably going to see alot more blitz this yr too.
I tend to think Adams was more a product of those around him than a guy who truly stood out on individual merits.
That said, I wanted Adams sent home on the next flight out after his stupid penalty against the Redskins in Week 3 - I was furious about that. I never would have imagined he'd turn out to be a serviceable part of the defense after that. But to his credit, he did.
Turned UDFA Safety's into descent starters. James Butler was UDFA. Gibril Wilson cashed in after 1 season. Grant if he was a little better before Psags came on board.
He played well but has range and agility limitations
Spags used him as he should have to conceal his weaknesses. Ideally he's a SS not a cover guy. So despite PFF's useless (as usual) input anyone that's watched the game for decades can see he's no 'superstar' in the making.
Spags used him as he should have to conceal his weaknesses. Ideally he's a SS not a cover guy. So despite PFF's useless (as usual) input anyone that's watched the game for decades can see he's no 'superstar' in the making.
Spags thrives by using his players to their strengths.
Of course the Giants could do worse. I don't think anyone dislikes Adams, rather, most of us are just a bit skeptical about the PFF premise that there's some sort of "star" potential there.
If DThompson can stay healthy, I think he'll be the better of the two.
That being said, a year's experience knowing this defense, I have no problem with him as possible backup material.....but as a starter, no....
PFF is a joke.....when they rank someone on another team you know nothing about, you take it with a grain of salt.....but when you have watched a player all season, and they come out with a stupid ranking like this, even that grain of salt goes out the window....
Pretty sure that Reese could do well by just signing players that Doomster and Googs dismiss.
First, I'm assuming he worked hard this off-season to refine his game as I've read. If he's improved, good for him and good for the team.
D. Thompson has the "star" potential if he can get healthy and stay healthy. If both D. Thompson and E. Apple really step up their sophmore years our defense will be rocking good.
Always done a great job coaching up safeties. With thompson back we may see the 3 safety packages alot this yr. So many schemes can be run with this deep secondary. Probably going to see alot more blitz this yr too.
If we are going to use a lot of 3 safety packages, I wonder if we end up carrying 5 safeties?
I don't think the coaches see him as a JAG. He was a rookie starter last year. He greatly benefited from superb CB play, no doubt, and otherwise held his own.
I think he can improve and be serviceable if called upon; and, for a UDFA you have to be happy with the pickup.
Of course the Giants could do worse. I don't think anyone dislikes Adams, rather, most of us are just a bit skeptical about the PFF premise that there's some sort of "star" potential there.
If DThompson can stay healthy, I think he'll be the better of the two.
I'm not a fan of the PFF crap, but when you look at the totality of the circumstances (this, Merritt's comments, etc) Adams is a solid starter w some upside. He proved as much last year. Teams were picking on Wade, not Adams.
It's a good problem to have. If Thompson beats out Adams, which will most likely be the case, the Giants are getting an upgrade to an already stacked secondary.
Much different than say if Fluker beats out Jerry or Bisnowaty beats out Hart. We still don't know where the Giants are at because the incumbents sucked.
Of course the Giants could do worse. I don't think anyone dislikes Adams, rather, most of us are just a bit skeptical about the PFF premise that there's some sort of "star" potential there.
If DThompson can stay healthy, I think he'll be the better of the two.
I'm not a fan of the PFF crap, but when you look at the totality of the circumstances (this, Merritt's comments, etc) Adams is a solid starter w some upside. He proved as much last year. Teams were picking on Wade, not Adams.
It's a good problem to have. If Thompson beats out Adams, which will most likely be the case, the Giants are getting an upgrade to an already stacked secondary.
Much different than say if Fluker beats out Jerry or Bisnowaty beats out Hart. We still don't know where the Giants are at because the incumbents sucked.
It is Merritt's comments which give me the most hope that he'll be improved and that he can be a starter in this league if called upon.
Now, since you mentioned Fluker, someone somewhere posted in a beat writer report the possibility that he could be cut at the end of camp due to the cap? This would mean our youth has really stepped up, of course. Personally, I don't see it as Fluker has NFL experience and just needs to work with coach Solari on the mental aspects of the game.
Fluker won't likely beat out Jerry, but he may end up backing up RG and RT.
The Giants defense was great last season and at times dominant. If they had a glaring weakness, teams would have tried time and time again to capitalize on it. There was no indication that offenses tried to pick on the rookie Adams. If they did, they were unsuccessful most of the time. Adams deserves the starting position going into camp. He's earned it. Let Darian Thompson beat him out of he wants the job. Competition is good.
The Giants defense was great last season and at times dominant. If they had a glaring weakness, teams would have tried time and time again to capitalize on it. There was no indication that offenses tried to pick on the rookie Adams. If they did, they were unsuccessful most of the time. Adams deserves the starting position going into camp. He's earned it. Let Darian Thompson beat him out of he wants the job. Competition is good.
I think the coaching staff has openly stated that they aren't handing D. Thompson anything, he has to earn it. And truthfully, as long as he stays healthy, he'll win the job. Just more of a pure talent.
about the players in the off-season with a grain of salt. Rarely will you see something negative be said.
The point is to stay positive especially with the kids.
about the players in the off-season with a grain of salt. Rarely will you see something negative be said.
The point is to stay positive especially with the kids.
The closest "negative" I heard is Spags remarks regarding rookie DT D. Tomlinson and the fact that he has a learning curve. Of course he does, he's a rookie. Now, how quickly he picks things up remains to be seen.
I said a few weeks ago, dont be shocked if hes starting this season next to collins. Thompson had talent coming out of the draft and i know everyone was excited for him but hes essentially a rookie again. While Adams quietly acted as a calm, quiet, savy, veteran on the back end.
Adams, from what i saw, was a strong tackler. i can not recall him getting beat, not to say it didnt happen i just do not recall any big plays on him. No busted coverages, no streaking receivers down the field.
pretty impressive cover snaps/reception. 54.5 throws. Thats going at least 5-6+ quarters, without allowing a catch.
Quiet Steal of a rookie signing. Hell of a performance by this kid
about the players in the off-season with a grain of salt. Rarely will you see something negative be said.
The point is to stay positive especially with the kids.
He earned the opportunity to compete, and to make a place for himself in the NFL over the next two seasons, at which point maybe he can make serious money. That's a long way from where he was a year ago; so in that sense he has already beaten the odds.
As others have said, it's hard to judge any player outside the context of the talent around him, and that's especially true of safeties. My impression is that Adams looked adequate because the rest of the defense was so good. There's probably an element of confirmation bias in that assessment, since expectations for Adams were so much lower than, say, Jenkins, DRC, Apple or Collins.
RE: RE: I'd take anything the coaching staff says....
about the players in the off-season with a grain of salt. Rarely will you see something negative be said.
The point is to stay positive especially with the kids.
Tye got the Gilbride shaft. Sometimes you got to motivate him? Don't sound like what you like to hear. - ( New Window )
Clearly a dig at W. Tye and his desire to be the best or at least much better.
Gillbride is right about formations and alignments: the more you have, the harder it is on a defense to prepare for you. Lets hope we see some very productive 2 TE sets this year.
Had a very good season, in fact he is a big reason it was not a disaster, and we have seen those. I thought he played very good in the pre season also, I hope he is a backup but he may turn out to be one of those guys you can't keep off of the starting team. Not fast, not big, not athletic, just good.
I said a few weeks ago, dont be shocked if hes starting this season next to collins. Thompson had talent coming out of the draft and i know everyone was excited for him but hes essentially a rookie again. While Adams quietly acted as a calm, quiet, savy, veteran on the back end.
Adams, from what i saw, was a strong tackler. i can not recall him getting beat, not to say it didnt happen i just do not recall any big plays on him. No busted coverages, no streaking receivers down the field.
pretty impressive cover snaps/reception. 54.5 throws. Thats going at least 5-6+ quarters, without allowing a catch.
Quiet Steal of a rookie signing. Hell of a performance by this kid
I might be wrong but I think the busted coverage Cowboy TD in the second game was Adams' responsibility.
Had a very good season, in fact he is a big reason it was not a disaster, and we have seen those. I thought he played very good in the pre season also, I hope he is a backup but he may turn out to be one of those guys you can't keep off of the starting team. Not fast, not big, not athletic, just good.
He may be the guy in 3 safety sets. Or it may be M. Thompson, my darkhorse guy to rise from the ashes and really flash production in his 3rd year. Of course he has to stay healthy as does D. Thompson.
We have competition, we have talent back there, let the best man win.
A+ season for me. I dont really buy that he was a product of the guys around him too much. He had to be in the right position most of the time. A good QB will find a weak link as we saw with Rodgers in the postseason when DRC went down. We didn't see too many QBs picking on Adams last year at all and it speaks volumes in my mind.
What is this crap about Adams not being picked on?
OF course he was, by the simple fact that he was hardly ever around medium to deep passes thrown against the corners last season. It took very little from the opposing QB & offense to put him in a position to be out of the play from sideline to sideline. Poor recognition skills.
His job isn't to cover guys on defense (how stats are compiled), its to protect and support. And when you see him walking over to where the blown-dead play has occurred against one of our corners, he has supported nothing.
Further go re-watch games against Balt, Cincy, Clev and Dallas (just a few where I know he was exposed) and see how he was picked on pretty easily with play action.
As an UDFA his body of work was as expected to me. He provided very little to a defense that basically didn't need to count on him. If your telling me that because we didn't give an 75 yard pass each week that he did a decent job, then we have different views on what i want from a FS. Not saying he should be the next coming of Ed Reed, but he also doesn't have to play like Mrs. Reed.
But he seems to be winning awards as the 4th best Safety in league, so maybe I missed his tremendous volume of plays...
Honestly, Jimmy, I think you're getting all worked up over nothing.
I don't see a healthy Thompson losing the starting FS gig to Adams, no matter how Adams played last season.
I make it a habit to look at what the Giants do, not what they say - coaches, players, whomever - and in the spring, before his mysterious illness, Thompson was getting the majority of snaps with the first team, picking right up where he left off last spring.
Adams' ascension was a nice story, but that's all it is...a story. He'll be back on the bench this year if DT is a go in my opinion.
This is a UFA who stepped up big time. The position is spoken for, it just comes down to either Thompson and Adams. Win/win for a fan as we'll have depth at the safety position.
RE: Honestly, Jimmy, I think you're getting all worked up over nothing.
I don't see a healthy Thompson losing the starting FS gig to Adams, no matter how Adams played last season.
I make it a habit to look at what the Giants do, not what they say - coaches, players, whomever - and in the spring, before his mysterious illness, Thompson was getting the majority of snaps with the first team, picking right up where he left off last spring.
Adams' ascension was a nice story, but that's all it is...a story. He'll be back on the bench this year if DT is a go in my opinion.
Lisfranc can be tough to come back from. My only hope is that both stay healthy, play well, and that the best man wins.
RE: RE: Honestly, Jimmy, I think you're getting all worked up over nothing.
I don't see a healthy Thompson losing the starting FS gig to Adams, no matter how Adams played last season.
I make it a habit to look at what the Giants do, not what they say - coaches, players, whomever - and in the spring, before his mysterious illness, Thompson was getting the majority of snaps with the first team, picking right up where he left off last spring.
Adams' ascension was a nice story, but that's all it is...a story. He'll be back on the bench this year if DT is a go in my opinion.
Lisfranc can be tough to come back from. My only hope is that both stay healthy, play well, and that the best man wins.
Lisfranc is indeed tough to come back from and such. D. Thompson's "illness" may have been a sore foot. Ouch.
RE: RE: Honestly, Jimmy, I think you're getting all worked up over nothing.
I don't see a healthy Thompson losing the starting FS gig to Adams, no matter how Adams played last season.
I make it a habit to look at what the Giants do, not what they say - coaches, players, whomever - and in the spring, before his mysterious illness, Thompson was getting the majority of snaps with the first team, picking right up where he left off last spring.
Adams' ascension was a nice story, but that's all it is...a story. He'll be back on the bench this year if DT is a go in my opinion.
Lisfranc can be tough to come back from. My only hope is that both stay healthy, play well, and that the best man wins.
Tuck did. And if you can find it in the archives, I think around the time Thompson got hurt I posted an interview with the NFL's head foot doctor (not his real title, in case you were wondering) who said that while a Lis Franc tear is usually a season-ender, it's almost never a career-ender.
You all realize Adams was benched a few times last year right?
Not saying that is unusual for a rookie, but its seems kind of odd since he was the 4th ranked Safety in the league.
But lets put all the rhetoric aside...
As Klaatu mentioned, if healthy DT has the starting gig. My guess is Adams has his hands full just holding off Ihenacho and/or Johnson for the backup job.
appreciate it...
Straight up for Jack Conklin or Bobby Wagner.
Reese - wake up!
Link - ( New Window )
However, the PFWA gave the nod to Karl Joseph (along with Neal) for their 2016 All-Rookie Team. Statistically, you'd have to go with Joseph. In two fewer games played (with five fewer starts, Joseph had more tackles than Adams (60 vs. 45) and one more PDef (6 vs. 5). They each had one INT.
Still, you're talking about two 1st round picks in Neal and Joseph vs. a UDFA who was cut after camp, signed to the PS, and then promoted to the active squad out of necessity. To say that he exceeded expectations would be something of an understatement in my opinion.
I still think a healthy Darian Thompson is a much better option than Adams, but like the old saying goes, "The best ability is availability," and Thompson has a lot to prove in that regard. We could do a lot worse than Adams if Thompson is a no-go again.
That being said, a year's experience knowing this defense, I have no problem with him as possible backup material.....but as a starter, no....
PFF is a joke.....when they rank someone on another team you know nothing about, you take it with a grain of salt.....but when you have watched a player all season, and they come out with a stupid ranking like this, even that grain of salt goes out the window....
What you all fail to realize is that Jadar Johnson will start next to Collins!
Not Thompson, not Adams, JOHNSON! JOHNSON, I SAY!
AAAARRRRGGGGHHHHH!
I know the defense would take a step back losing such a dynamic playmaking stud like Adams but gotta' think of the overall good of the team.
Who's with me?
That said, I wanted Adams sent home on the next flight out after his stupid penalty against the Redskins in Week 3 - I was furious about that. I never would have imagined he'd turn out to be a serviceable part of the defense after that. But to his credit, he did.
I think anyone who remembers both seasons(Collins 1st and Adams 1st) can see that PFF is highly suspect.
Spags thrives by using his players to their strengths.
If DThompson can stay healthy, I think he'll be the better of the two.
That being said, a year's experience knowing this defense, I have no problem with him as possible backup material.....but as a starter, no....
PFF is a joke.....when they rank someone on another team you know nothing about, you take it with a grain of salt.....but when you have watched a player all season, and they come out with a stupid ranking like this, even that grain of salt goes out the window....
Pretty sure that Reese could do well by just signing players that Doomster and Googs dismiss.
D. Thompson has the "star" potential if he can get healthy and stay healthy. If both D. Thompson and E. Apple really step up their sophmore years our defense will be rocking good.
Collins, D. Thompson, N. Behre, A. Adams and ???
I think he can improve and be serviceable if called upon; and, for a UDFA you have to be happy with the pickup.
If DThompson can stay healthy, I think he'll be the better of the two.
I'm not a fan of the PFF crap, but when you look at the totality of the circumstances (this, Merritt's comments, etc) Adams is a solid starter w some upside. He proved as much last year. Teams were picking on Wade, not Adams.
It's a good problem to have. If Thompson beats out Adams, which will most likely be the case, the Giants are getting an upgrade to an already stacked secondary.
Much different than say if Fluker beats out Jerry or Bisnowaty beats out Hart. We still don't know where the Giants are at because the incumbents sucked.
Quote:
Of course the Giants could do worse. I don't think anyone dislikes Adams, rather, most of us are just a bit skeptical about the PFF premise that there's some sort of "star" potential there.
If DThompson can stay healthy, I think he'll be the better of the two.
I'm not a fan of the PFF crap, but when you look at the totality of the circumstances (this, Merritt's comments, etc) Adams is a solid starter w some upside. He proved as much last year. Teams were picking on Wade, not Adams.
It's a good problem to have. If Thompson beats out Adams, which will most likely be the case, the Giants are getting an upgrade to an already stacked secondary.
Much different than say if Fluker beats out Jerry or Bisnowaty beats out Hart. We still don't know where the Giants are at because the incumbents sucked.
Now, since you mentioned Fluker, someone somewhere posted in a beat writer report the possibility that he could be cut at the end of camp due to the cap? This would mean our youth has really stepped up, of course. Personally, I don't see it as Fluker has NFL experience and just needs to work with coach Solari on the mental aspects of the game.
Fluker won't likely beat out Jerry, but he may end up backing up RG and RT.
The point is to stay positive especially with the kids.
The point is to stay positive especially with the kids.
Adams, from what i saw, was a strong tackler. i can not recall him getting beat, not to say it didnt happen i just do not recall any big plays on him. No busted coverages, no streaking receivers down the field.
pretty impressive cover snaps/reception. 54.5 throws. Thats going at least 5-6+ quarters, without allowing a catch.
Quiet Steal of a rookie signing. Hell of a performance by this kid
The point is to stay positive especially with the kids.
Tye got the Gilbride shaft.
Sometimes you got to motivate him? Don't sound like what you like to hear. - ( New Window )
As others have said, it's hard to judge any player outside the context of the talent around him, and that's especially true of safeties. My impression is that Adams looked adequate because the rest of the defense was so good. There's probably an element of confirmation bias in that assessment, since expectations for Adams were so much lower than, say, Jenkins, DRC, Apple or Collins.
Quote:
about the players in the off-season with a grain of salt. Rarely will you see something negative be said.
The point is to stay positive especially with the kids.
Tye got the Gilbride shaft. Sometimes you got to motivate him? Don't sound like what you like to hear. - ( New Window )
Gillbride is right about formations and alignments: the more you have, the harder it is on a defense to prepare for you. Lets hope we see some very productive 2 TE sets this year.
Adams, from what i saw, was a strong tackler. i can not recall him getting beat, not to say it didnt happen i just do not recall any big plays on him. No busted coverages, no streaking receivers down the field.
pretty impressive cover snaps/reception. 54.5 throws. Thats going at least 5-6+ quarters, without allowing a catch.
Quiet Steal of a rookie signing. Hell of a performance by this kid
I might be wrong but I think the busted coverage Cowboy TD in the second game was Adams' responsibility.
We have competition, we have talent back there, let the best man win.
His job isn't to cover guys on defense (how stats are compiled), its to protect and support. And when you see him walking over to where the blown-dead play has occurred against one of our corners, he has supported nothing.
Further go re-watch games against Balt, Cincy, Clev and Dallas (just a few where I know he was exposed) and see how he was picked on pretty easily with play action.
As an UDFA his body of work was as expected to me. He provided very little to a defense that basically didn't need to count on him. If your telling me that because we didn't give an 75 yard pass each week that he did a decent job, then we have different views on what i want from a FS. Not saying he should be the next coming of Ed Reed, but he also doesn't have to play like Mrs. Reed.
But he seems to be winning awards as the 4th best Safety in league, so maybe I missed his tremendous volume of plays...
I make it a habit to look at what the Giants do, not what they say - coaches, players, whomever - and in the spring, before his mysterious illness, Thompson was getting the majority of snaps with the first team, picking right up where he left off last spring.
Adams' ascension was a nice story, but that's all it is...a story. He'll be back on the bench this year if DT is a go in my opinion.
I make it a habit to look at what the Giants do, not what they say - coaches, players, whomever - and in the spring, before his mysterious illness, Thompson was getting the majority of snaps with the first team, picking right up where he left off last spring.
Adams' ascension was a nice story, but that's all it is...a story. He'll be back on the bench this year if DT is a go in my opinion.
Lisfranc can be tough to come back from. My only hope is that both stay healthy, play well, and that the best man wins.
Quote:
I don't see a healthy Thompson losing the starting FS gig to Adams, no matter how Adams played last season.
I make it a habit to look at what the Giants do, not what they say - coaches, players, whomever - and in the spring, before his mysterious illness, Thompson was getting the majority of snaps with the first team, picking right up where he left off last spring.
Adams' ascension was a nice story, but that's all it is...a story. He'll be back on the bench this year if DT is a go in my opinion.
Lisfranc can be tough to come back from. My only hope is that both stay healthy, play well, and that the best man wins.
Quote:
I don't see a healthy Thompson losing the starting FS gig to Adams, no matter how Adams played last season.
I make it a habit to look at what the Giants do, not what they say - coaches, players, whomever - and in the spring, before his mysterious illness, Thompson was getting the majority of snaps with the first team, picking right up where he left off last spring.
Adams' ascension was a nice story, but that's all it is...a story. He'll be back on the bench this year if DT is a go in my opinion.
Lisfranc can be tough to come back from. My only hope is that both stay healthy, play well, and that the best man wins.
Tuck did. And if you can find it in the archives, I think around the time Thompson got hurt I posted an interview with the NFL's head foot doctor (not his real title, in case you were wondering) who said that while a Lis Franc tear is usually a season-ender, it's almost never a career-ender.
But lets put all the rhetoric aside...
As Klaatu mentioned, if healthy DT has the starting gig. My guess is Adams has his hands full just holding off Ihenacho and/or Johnson for the backup job.