On defense, all but two starters from last year remain. Gone are LB Kelvin Sheppard and DT Johnathan Hankins. But while B.J. Goodson is the clear favorite to start at MLB this year, there is no clear favorite to start at DT next to Damon Harrison. I'm very anxious to see who gets that job, and also who'll be the first DT to come in for the big run-stuffer (who only played 61% of the defensive snaps last year), although that role may be filled by a DE in obvious passing situations.
Speaking of which, the competition for back-ups to JPP and OV should be fierce, too. Is Okwara the real deal? Is Devin Taylor ready to show the rest of the league that they made a mistake by passing up the chance to sign him? Where does Moss fit into the mix, and what about Wynn and OO? A few questions there which I hope will be answered relatively quickly.
The situation at FS with Andrew Adams and Darian Thompson has been discussed in several recent threads, and of course Landon Collins is a lock, but after those three two questions remain: One, how many Safeties will the Giants keep? Four, which they usually do, or five, which is what I'd like them to. And who will take those one or two spots?
At CB, it looks like Michael Hunter has the inside track to become the 4th one after DRC, Jenkins, and Apple, but he's certainly not a lock. And if the Giants keep five, who else will make the squad? Blake, Deayon, one of the UDFAs, or can Mykkele Thompson make a successful transition?
On offense, although I'd like the Giants to keep only two QBs, the odds are that they'll keep three. The battle between Geno Smith and Josh Johnson may not be an epic one, but it should be an interesting one.
I figure four out of five OL spots are already locked down. From left to right, Flowers, Pugh, Richburg, and Jerry look to be secure. The one battle I'm most anxious to see is at RT, where I think Adam Bisnowaty can give Bobby Hart a run for his money, with the loser riding the pine. After that, two or three back-up spots will be up for grabs.
With the skill positions, which have been discussed at length, I think it primarily comes down to a numbers game. How many RBs, TEs, and WRs will the Giants keep? We know who's going to start at RB and WR, but assuming four and six for each (and you know I'd go with three and six, but, whatever), several spots should be up for grabs. I'm anxious to see who takes those spots.
With the TEs, I'll assume that four are kept. To me, Ellison, Engram, and Adams are no-brainers. The real battle will be between the incumbent Tye and the oft-injured LaCosse for that fourth spot.
To conclude, there are two battles I'm most excited to see this summer: First, at DT, and second, at RT.
How about you?
Nothing would surprise me, even a veteran pickup should a trade be there (rare, yes, but I'll play....). Lets face it, only the rookie has true upside talent. J. Bromley is a guy you can plug in for snaps but you don't want him playing 50% of the time. Nor would you want Thomas playing 50% of the time. Bryant may be better than both of these guys but he has to learn the defense. As a veteran, he'll pick it up.
So in a nutshell, I'm "guessing" that opening day R. Thomas starts (knows the scheme, big body); backup J. Bromley (knows scheme) with D. Tomlinson inactive. But this is such a guess as the Giants may end up keeping veteran Bryant over R. Thomas or J. Bromley.
Inside 3rd and must pass guys are likely R. Okwara and D. Taylor. I think OWA's career is in jeopardy based on injuries and personal events to date but that too is a guess.
We talk about this in the podcast -- and I agree with you Robbie -- 100 percent as to all points you make - and I add - that it would save a roster spot -- the one point that was made worth making otherwise is whether it was wise to put that kind of pressure on Webb
Eli Manning, Geno Smith and D. Webb (inactive 16 weeks plus playoffs). Let Webb watch and learn from the sidelines this year.
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Will be backup QB. I know it is not likely but I hope Webb shows enough to win the backup QB spot. I have no faith in Johnson or Smith. That could change but as of now I am not anymore confident in either one of them than I would be in Webb.
We talk about this in the podcast -- and I agree with you Robbie -- 100 percent as to all points you make - and I add - that it would save a roster spot -- the one point that was made worth making otherwise is whether it was wise to put that kind of pressure on Webb
To counter that point of pressure, if ai was McAdoo then I would only go with Eli and Webb if Webb earned it therefore showing enough to do what is necessary of a backup QB. I don't think Johnson is getting picked up by another team if he didn't make the initial 53 so if we needed him throughout the season then I would be fairly confident he would still be available for us.
I think Eli saod something about pressure. Maybe it was TC. It was something like pressure is what you feel when you are not prepared for a situation. So, by that definition, if Webb shows he is prepared for the responsibilities of that backup spot then I am not worried about any so-called pressure that he couldn't handle. Plus, if Webb was on the field I have confidence that McAdoo will put Webb into positions to succeed. This was evidenced by our offense last year. He played very conservative to play to the strengths of our team which was defense and field position.
As I wrote, I'd prefer it if the Giants kept two QBs, but I think it more likely that they'll keep three. I don't see how Webb could possibly get enough snaps to justify him being the only back-up on the roster. Therefore, I think the real competition is between Smith and Johnson for the #2 spot.
I like D. Webb, but I just can't see him being ready to manage a team as a #2 QB. Now, MaCadoo could roll the dice on final cutdowns and hope Eli goes 16 games without missing any snaps. I highly doubt Johnson OR Smith are picked up by anyone so if we got hit with an injury early we could pick one of them up at least.
But you can't risk a season on a rookie and the hope a veteran doesn't get picked up. Can you imagine the outrage if Eli missed four games and we lost all four with Webb by a FG or less? You can't risk a season for a 6th receiver, 4th TE, 4th RB. Just no way...
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Will be backup QB. I know it is not likely but I hope Webb shows enough to win the backup QB spot. I have no faith in Johnson or Smith. That could change but as of now I am not anymore confident in either one of them than I would be in Webb.
We talk about this in the podcast -- and I agree with you Robbie -- 100 percent as to all points you make - and I add - that it would save a roster spot -- the one point that was made worth making otherwise is whether it was wise to put that kind of pressure on Webb
Pressure on Webb? Unlike Newton, Bortles, Gabbert, Derek Carr, Prescott, Wentz, Goff et al, he is NOT being asked to start..Let him back-up Eli and if necessary spoon-feed him with the O (if Eli goes down) and have a strong D help carry him..No current backup is going to successfully replace Eli, so go with Webb..Too much pressure for a BACKUP? Too bad..
top of my "watch list" this summer. I think JJ has a chance to earn snaps in nickle/dime packages
If a change of scenery and some great coaching helps him become the top backup at RG/RT, I'd be ecstatic. I like Bisnotway a lot too, he'll compete at RT for sure. Again, we should have some good competition.
How long will it take Gallman to Learn the system and demonstrate competence in pass pro? Will Vereen stay healthy and can he handle more carries? Or is he strictly a 3rd down back? Is Darkwa even a viable candidate to make the roster? He has shown the ability to run the football but he has not shown the ability to stay healthy.
How long will it take Gallman to Learn the system and demonstrate competence in pass pro? Will Vereen stay healthy and can he handle more carries? Or is he strictly a 3rd down back? Is Darkwa even a viable candidate to make the roster? He has shown the ability to run the football but he has not shown the ability to stay healthy.
Perkins, Vereen, Darkwa or Draughn, Gallman - 4 out of these 5 with special teams play being the difference maker for the final spot. I think Gallman can be a 4th "inactive" RB to start the season as he learns the system, pass protection sets, etc. I always believe RB's have to totally prove themselves in pass protection before you can afford to put them out there and risk Eli.
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Will be backup QB. I know it is not likely but I hope Webb shows enough to win the backup QB spot. I have no faith in Johnson or Smith. That could change but as of now I am not anymore confident in either one of them than I would be in Webb.
We talk about this in the podcast -- and I agree with you Robbie -- 100 percent as to all points you make - and I add - that it would save a roster spot -- the one point that was made worth making otherwise is whether it was wise to put that kind of pressure on Webb
Back-up QB for me too. If Webb can win the #2 spot, and its not like Johnson or Geno are really NFL caliber anyway, then we can save a roster spot. We an then put #3 (Johnson or Geno) on the PS.
I'd be stunned if we only carry 2 QBs. That is "wishful thinking." Webb is a rookie from a spread offense. He'll be ready to be the #2 next year, not this year. This year is for learning.
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In comment 13523597 robbieballs2003 said:
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Will be backup QB. I know it is not likely but I hope Webb shows enough to win the backup QB spot. I have no faith in Johnson or Smith. That could change but as of now I am not anymore confident in either one of them than I would be in Webb.
We talk about this in the podcast -- and I agree with you Robbie -- 100 percent as to all points you make - and I add - that it would save a roster spot -- the one point that was made worth making otherwise is whether it was wise to put that kind of pressure on Webb
Back-up QB for me too. If Webb can win the #2 spot, and its not like Johnson or Geno are really NFL caliber anyway, then we can save a roster spot. We an then put #3 (Johnson or Geno) on the PS.
I think the main reason Webb went in round 3 rather than early 2nd is he played in a spread offense and it is hard to truly gauge how good he really is? Regardless, veteran Geno Smith could at least manage the offense until Eli's return.
Webb will hopefully show enough to be the #2 next year and #1 in the future (maybe year #3 even...)
2. QB (Smith, Johnson or longshot Webb as #2)
3. FS (D. Thompson or A. Adams to start; Jadar backup?)
4. RT (Hart, Bisnowaty or maybe Fluker as a surprise?)
5. OL (who sticks in backup roles?)
We have some depth this year, quality depth. The one guy we can lose on defense is Snacks. The two guys we can't lose on offense are Eli and OBJ. You can argue Flowers at OT but if Pugh had to move over I think you'd somehow "manage" at least.
That is how I come out.
Perkins is about the same size as guys like LeSean McCoy, Jamal Charles, Tiki Barber, and Brian Westbrook. In his final two years in college, he averaged 19 carries per game. I'm not worried about him carrying a similar load as a pro.
As I said in Eric's RB preview, rookie RBs make a positive impact all the time. Look no further than last year's draft for proof of that. Not every RB drafted became a "bell cow" like Ezekiel Elliott or Jordan Howard, but guys like Kenneth Dixon, DeAndre Washington, Devontae Booker, and Wendell Smallwood all made significant contributions for their teams as complementary backs...precisely the role that Wayne Gallman would play for us.
Good topic.
For me, besides the last safeties and the last cornerbacks; the other battle I think is important is for the last running back. To me, Perkins is too unproven over a long schedule to have the legs at the vital last month. Vereen unable to take the between the tackles pounding if Perkins goes down. Gallman is too unproven. So to me there will need to be 4 running backs. We do play outdoors in the Northeast. And we invariably have to win games in the winter. I think we all did not pay enough attention to their signing of Draughn. All around back and a reputation for results in the red zone last year.
As for the QB I would only point out that with a good defense and improving special teams, we are well set up to take a risk at QB. If we had two TE and a running game and a great defense a back up can win some games as a game manager. Even a rookie. This team is set up to be about as good as you can ask for if you have a rookie qb. With one exception. The OL.
I think the training camp signings of vets will be the unknown battles that make a difference.
Lastly, we need some competition for a FG kicker
Without sounding like the late, lamented Jerry-troll, I think it would take a monumental effort on D.J. Fluker's part to unseat John Jerry at RG. The Giants seem to like Jerry a lot more than most of us do. Why? I have no idea.
3rd CB
right side of OL
TE's
QB back-up
3rd and 4th DEs
2nd DT
4th-5th or 6th WR
Not clear to me if Goodson has a serious competitor at MLB -- probably just his to lose.
But JT Thomas was a good cover LB before the injuries started creeping up on him. If he fully recovers, is he the superior cover LB over Casillas? Because if he isn't, I think he could get cut outright for cap savings.
LaCosse, Mykkele Thompson, Darien Thompson and even Geno.
My next group are the rookies who will be on the 53 and I think eventually WILL start but the question is "how soon?".
Lastly, who among the undrafted will topple an incumbent for the 53? If Jadar can learn to tackle this summer, he has a chance. Can Travis Rudolph climb the ladder and stick? Will an "unknown" RB steal a spot?
These are the battles I will be watching.
3rd CB
right side of OL
TE's
QB back-up
3rd and 4th DEs
2nd DT
4th-5th or 6th WR
Not clear to me if Goodson has a serious competitor at MLB -- probably just his to lose.
I am guessing you mean 4th corner?
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fights for his NFL life and is competitive for either spot on the right side of the o-line. Jerry and Hart would both be well served by having to fight for their starting jobs.
Fluker has always been physically gifted but apparently has always lacked the "mental" part of the game. He may not be lazy just lacking in mental acumen (ex. picking up stunts cause he just doesn't see them developing?) and such.
If a change of scenery and some great coaching helps him become the top backup at RG/RT, I'd be ecstatic. I like Bisnotway a lot too, he'll compete at RT for sure. Again, we should have some good competition.
We may be saying the same thing, but I have a slightly different take on DJ. With only interviews to go by (and I'm not a psychologist) I sense that Fluker LEARNS differently.
It could be that in college his superior physical skills covered any other faults. The pro game of course is very different and it would not surprise me that the disfunctional Chargers did not handle him properly. The Giants have the luxury of time to bring him along.
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In comment 13523618 ktinsc said:
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fights for his NFL life and is competitive for either spot on the right side of the o-line. Jerry and Hart would both be well served by having to fight for their starting jobs.
Fluker has always been physically gifted but apparently has always lacked the "mental" part of the game. He may not be lazy just lacking in mental acumen (ex. picking up stunts cause he just doesn't see them developing?) and such.
If a change of scenery and some great coaching helps him become the top backup at RG/RT, I'd be ecstatic. I like Bisnotway a lot too, he'll compete at RT for sure. Again, we should have some good competition.
We may be saying the same thing, but I have a slightly different take on DJ. With only interviews to go by (and I'm not a psychologist) I sense that Fluker LEARNS differently.
It could be that in college his superior physical skills covered any other faults. The pro game of course is very different and it would not surprise me that the disfunctional Chargers did not handle him properly. The Giants have the luxury of time to bring him along.
If Fluker outright wins the RG job or even RT because he finally figures it out, well, this team improves overnight. Jerry had a solid year last year which is why the Giants gave him a deal at season's end. We didn't try to keep Newhouse as I understand it.
I don't know what is going to happen on the right side, but I think Fluker has a good shot to be a strong back-up at RG and RT possibly. He's played both spots in his career. But he has the physical make-up to be a mauling RG. He just needs help from coach Solari and others to get the mental aspects down so he doesn't get Eli killed by missing a stunt or whatever else he struggles with. Jerry is at least steady.
At worst, maybe Fluker becomes and 3rd/4th and a yard blocker; the goal line blocker. I don't know, but he does have physical tools so anything is possible if he can just learn.
Tomlinson vs. Bromley - starting second defensive tackle
Jerry vs. Fluker - starting right guard
Hart vs. Fluker vs. Bisnowaty - starting right offensive tackle
Tye vs. Lacosse - tight-end depth
...versus Ereck Flowers.
(:-)
...versus Ereck Flowers.
(:-)
As for Draughn being an "all around back," well, he's been "all around" the league, that's for sure. He's on, what, his eighth team in eight years? As for his "reputation for having a nose for the end zone," does one decent year where he scored six of his seven career TDs (four rushing, two receiving) qualify one for a "reputation?" I think his career 3.2 rushing average says more about him than his TDs.
However, I will admit that he has a chance to bump Shane Vereen off the roster because their skillsets are similar, but Vereen is without question the more accomplished back, and for the two years prior to last year's injury-plagued season, Vereen didn't miss a game.
Finally, as I've said repeatedly this offseason, I'd rather go with three RBs and one FB instead of four RBs. I don't like the idea of having to activate a 4th RB just to play specials, not when you could get more bang for the buck, so to speak, with an additional DB or WR. If the Giants ever need another RB, I'm sure they can find one on their practice squad, on some other team's practice squad, or on his couch.
Klaatu, how much weight have you lost?
As for Draughn being an "all around back," well, he's been "all around" the league, that's for sure. He's on, what, his eighth team in eight years? As for his "reputation for having a nose for the end zone," does one decent year where he scored six of his seven career TDs (four rushing, two receiving) qualify one for a "reputation?" I think his career 3.2 rushing average says more about him than his TDs.
However, I will admit that he has a chance to bump Shane Vereen off the roster because their skillsets are similar, but Vereen is without question the more accomplished back, and for the two years prior to last year's injury-plagued season, Vereen didn't miss a game.
Finally, as I've said repeatedly this offseason, I'd rather go with three RBs and one FB instead of four RBs. I don't like the idea of having to activate a 4th RB just to play specials, not when you could get more bang for the buck, so to speak, with an additional DB or WR. If the Giants ever need another RB, I'm sure they can find one on their practice squad, on some other team's practice squad, or on his couch.
Your argument against Draughn applies 100-fold for Darkwa and 1000-fold for Gallman. One, a guy with <100 career carries in 4 years, the other a rookie. I like Darkwa more than Draughn and Gallman more than Darkwa but arguing against him based on experience undermines your argument.
I also hope we keep a FB instead anyway. Huesman seems like a perfect fit imo.
Klaatu, how much weight have you lost?
I'm down to 255, so about 70 pounds or so since my heart attack.
Had to give up the rice pudding, though. I'm fairly certain that Kozy Shack stock has taken a big hit because of me.
Me too. Just, don't think dogging Draughn for his experience is fair.
And Smith seems like favorite based on the camp reports. But, Huesman seems like a better guy offensively beyond pure blocking ability. Converted from QB to RB to FB. I think he could actually run the ball in short yardage. Smith is really a moveable blocker. Either guy has qualities we could use though.
Quite frankly Bromley has never shown what Thomas has
Quite frankly Bromley has never shown what Thomas has
Interesting sentiment regarding D. Tomlinson being similar to Fletcher-Cox, who ain't a bad player. I don't think anyone else has made that comparison. One thing I do know about D. Tomlinson is that is supposedly very strong which is a plus, always, for any DL.
Cox is definitely a better athlete than Tomlinson but they are both huge country strong SOBs
Cox is definitely a better athlete than Tomlinson but they are both huge country strong SOBs
I think D. Tomlinson will be a strong starter in this league. Not an All-Pro but just a strong player who does his job.
Its a question imho. I don't have a vested interest and certainly don't feel strongly enough to argue for it but I do have RB as a concern.
Even in a pass first offense between the 80 and 20, when it comes to the red zone and comes to closing out games and it comes to rain games and winter games...running is a capability that is a necessity. Not calling for a run based offense. I am reminding us that we still have to run well to win a playoff spot and beyond
His six TDs came last year, when he was with San Francisco, where my guess is his 2.6 ypc was not just a product of short-yardage situations. His longest run was 18 yards, against Carolina, Game 2. Frankly, he was much better as a receiver out of the backfield in his two years with the 49ers, which is why I say that he might- might, not will - give Vereen a run for his money.
Its a question imho. I don't have a vested interest and certainly don't feel strongly enough to argue for it but I do have RB as a concern.
Even in a pass first offense between the 80 and 20, when it comes to the red zone and comes to closing out games and it comes to rain games and winter games...running is a capability that is a necessity. Not calling for a run based offense. I am reminding us that we still have to run well to win a playoff spot and beyond
There was an article picking the 5 best OL's in the NFC East. LT was Trent Williams, LG was Justin Pugh, than Travis Frederick at OC and RT Lane. I forget the other guard.
I think Flowers and Pugh can be well above average run blockers. TE Ellison can run block on the right. We have a shot to move the ball on the ground fairly well this year. Not Top 10 like our passing game, but maybe in that 14 to 18 range, average but good?
Quite frankly Bromley has never shown what Thomas has
No one is sleeping on Thomas, but since he and Bromley were both splitting time with the first team in the spring (base 4-3 and nickel), I don't think either of them - or Tomlinson, Bryant, or anyone else - is "slated" to start next to Snacks, regardless of where Eric has them in his Depth Chart. The competition will be open, and it should be fierce.
I don't know if you're being serious or not, but I actually like Pinkins. He can play the LB/S role in the Deone Buchanan mode, and the Giants even had him fill in at CB in the spring. He played sparingly last year, almost all of his snaps came on STs, but I hope the Giants find a way to keep him around.