Saying the Steelers
hassan : 11:17 am : link : reply
Have more cachet than ny Giants isn't suggesting the NY Giants are chopped liver. You yourself have researched ref bias against nyg
The research also showed a bias against Pitt too. What the research showed was the teams who supported replacement refs way back in the day found themselves consistently on the short end of calls. Mara and Rooney were both supporters.
The images of the Steelers and the Giants are quite similar, down to a professional friendship. Basically saying that the steelers logo holds more sway is splitting hairs, since both are flagship franchises of the NFL. It would be like comparing the status of the Bears vs. the Lions.
Just not a lock for 1st ballot. The problem with the HOF is there is no consistency on why one person gets in and another doesn't. Eli has some good strong case for and a good case against.
The Good - 2 SB MVPs, consecutive games streak, longevity, 1 really great season, a few very strong seasons, lots of TDs, holds several NFL records
The Bad - average W/L record, low completion %, only 4 pro bowls in 13 seasons, led the league in INTs several times, high INT totals, inconsistent, Never an All-Pro, Never a league MVP
I like Eli, I think he is a very good QB but to my eye he was never one of the best that I've seen. I personally think the HOF should be reserved for the best of the best. Eli has provided some great moments but not a great consistent career. A HOFer should have can have bad games but shouldnt have bad seasons or st least not until the end. Stats are good and all but I think you need at least 10 seasons in the NFL or at least 5 pro bowls or 1 league MVP to be considered. It's OK to not have someone voted in every year.
Just look at the difference between 2 QBs who played a lot in the same era Eli Manning and Peyton Manning. Eli's stats are not even close to Peyton. That's the type of people he should be compared to, the best of the best. I would put Eli in the 2nd tier of QBs in his Era with guys like Romo. Very good just not great but you see a lot of very good in the HOF too and Eli will get there but may not be 1st ballot, depends on who else is there when election time comes.
Just look at the difference between 2 QBs who played a lot in the same era Eli Manning and Peyton Manning. Eli's stats are not even close to Peyton.
If you are going to do side-by-sides will you normalize for things like playing in a dome? If Eli plays another 4 years, he will compare very favorably with Peyton, and even if he doesn't play again, he'd have 2 SB MVP's, beating the best team in football both times.
What I keep saying is that where Eli has a weakness, it is made up with a strength that bolsters the HoF argument. Eli is 2-0 in SB's, being the MVP twice. His brother has a horrendous loss in a SB and another loss. Eli has had to play in the NFC East his entire career. Peyton could sleepwalk through the regular season most years and get to the postseason.
I just don't have the same faith in the voters that some of you do.
I think of the active guys right now, Brees, Big Ben, Brady, Rodgers definitely get in. Eli is a likely to me. I'm ignoring some of the younger guys like Luck for now.
I also think Ryan gets in if he wins a Super Bowl.
but I thin Eli will be the exception to the dumb anti NY bias rule. Eli has a lot of cache with the media. He's always been open and media friendly and just his name alone, the guy's an NFL pillar.
Anyone else (NYG bubble HOF) and i'd be leery but I think Eli will beat the odds.
If he didn't have the rings, he wouldn't get in. If he didn't have the longevity, he wouldn't get in either. Only once (IMO, and the media disagrees) was he a top 3 QB during the season.
I don't think the comparisons to the other multiple SB winning QB's is appropriate - outside of Ben, the others had far superior regular season accolades. I think I'd put Eli in before Ben, but I doubt the average voter agrees.
Eli is a lock
Rudy5757 : 12:14 pm : link : reply
Just look at the difference between 2 QBs who played a lot in the same era Eli Manning and Peyton Manning. Eli's stats are not even close to Peyton. That's the type of people he should be compared to, the best of the best.
Then every ball player should be compared to Babe Ruth......if they did that, the Hall would be empty....
It's not just about his stats....what about his team's stats? What did he have for a defense? What did he have for a running game? What did he have for receivers? He hasn't had a decent OL, the last 5 seasons, and yet he still put up respectable stats....the last 5 seasons, he has had an injured Nicks, an injured Cruz, and no TE's. Outside of OBj, and a rookie slot receiver, who did he have to throw to last season? Besides Bradshaw in 2012, who has Eli had for a RB these past 5 seasons? It's hard to carry the offense when you have no OL and no weapons....
Read any Harris poll-Pitt is a more popular te than nyg consistently
Even if this is true, it has no bearing on any HOF vote. Any voter who thinks, "If he played for Pitt, I'd vote for him, but..." shouldn't have his/her vote pulled, he/she should be fired. The organization a player plays for his no bearing on whether he's a HOF'er or not.
Read any Harris poll-Pitt is a more popular te than nyg consistently
Even if this is true, it has no bearing on any HOF vote. Any voter who thinks, "If he played for Pitt, I'd vote for him, but..." shouldn't have his/her vote pulled, he/she should be fired. The organization a player plays for his no bearing on whether he's a HOF'er or not.
agree with this, but it wouldn't surprise me if there were voters from other parts of the country that felt Eli was the benefit of the NY media hype machine.
The NY media hypes up Eli Manning to be more than he is?
Section the voters are dumb and have an anti ny bias overall. Hence my bringing this up. Should it matter? Of course not. Will it be a real obstacle? Yes, I believe so.
The NY media definitely does NOT hype up Eli Manning
Yes, they give him props for two SB's BUT they give him more digs for interceptions in key spots and times than anything else. NY is a tough town and they are tough on Eli.
Think about it: if Eli had 2 less interceptions in big spots per season (just 2 passes) we likely wouldn't be debating whether he deserves HOF first ballot or not. That is how close it is in my humble opinion. A key bad toss on prime time here and there each season has left Eli's rep a bit tarnished.
But one last time: have a big year this year, statistically and in the playoffs, and Eli is a first ballot lock with another ring, MVP or not.
Look...if he simply just stopped throwing pick-6s versus Eagles
This article makes the argument Eli is unlikely to get in because of his lack of credentials. I think it's a bit harsh. Football Perspective - ( New Window )
he's been hated on / ridiculously underrated throughout his career ... they will knock his all time stats as being part of an easier era to throw ...
He is nowhere near a lock. (This has nothing to do with how I feel about him. Talk to pretty much any non Giant fan and Eli is not so highly regarded. I've loved Eli ever since that brutal NFC championship against San Fran ... surviving that game alone should get him into the HOF)
Another Superbowl ring would help immensely..
Beating Tom Brady again in a SB would make it a lock..
hassan : 11:17 am : link : reply
Have more cachet than ny Giants isn't suggesting the NY Giants are chopped liver. You yourself have researched ref bias against nyg
The research also showed a bias against Pitt too. What the research showed was the teams who supported replacement refs way back in the day found themselves consistently on the short end of calls. Mara and Rooney were both supporters.
The images of the Steelers and the Giants are quite similar, down to a professional friendship. Basically saying that the steelers logo holds more sway is splitting hairs, since both are flagship franchises of the NFL. It would be like comparing the status of the Bears vs. the Lions.
The Good - 2 SB MVPs, consecutive games streak, longevity, 1 really great season, a few very strong seasons, lots of TDs, holds several NFL records
The Bad - average W/L record, low completion %, only 4 pro bowls in 13 seasons, led the league in INTs several times, high INT totals, inconsistent, Never an All-Pro, Never a league MVP
I like Eli, I think he is a very good QB but to my eye he was never one of the best that I've seen. I personally think the HOF should be reserved for the best of the best. Eli has provided some great moments but not a great consistent career. A HOFer should have can have bad games but shouldnt have bad seasons or st least not until the end. Stats are good and all but I think you need at least 10 seasons in the NFL or at least 5 pro bowls or 1 league MVP to be considered. It's OK to not have someone voted in every year.
Just look at the difference between 2 QBs who played a lot in the same era Eli Manning and Peyton Manning. Eli's stats are not even close to Peyton. That's the type of people he should be compared to, the best of the best. I would put Eli in the 2nd tier of QBs in his Era with guys like Romo. Very good just not great but you see a lot of very good in the HOF too and Eli will get there but may not be 1st ballot, depends on who else is there when election time comes.
If you are going to do side-by-sides will you normalize for things like playing in a dome? If Eli plays another 4 years, he will compare very favorably with Peyton, and even if he doesn't play again, he'd have 2 SB MVP's, beating the best team in football both times.
What I keep saying is that where Eli has a weakness, it is made up with a strength that bolsters the HoF argument. Eli is 2-0 in SB's, being the MVP twice. His brother has a horrendous loss in a SB and another loss. Eli has had to play in the NFC East his entire career. Peyton could sleepwalk through the regular season most years and get to the postseason.
But "lock" is a word that means 100%, and it's not 100%.
So no, he is not a lock.
I think of the active guys right now, Brees, Big Ben, Brady, Rodgers definitely get in. Eli is a likely to me. I'm ignoring some of the younger guys like Luck for now.
I also think Ryan gets in if he wins a Super Bowl.
Anyone else (NYG bubble HOF) and i'd be leery but I think Eli will beat the odds.
I don't think the comparisons to the other multiple SB winning QB's is appropriate - outside of Ben, the others had far superior regular season accolades. I think I'd put Eli in before Ben, but I doubt the average voter agrees.
Rudy5757 : 12:14 pm : link : reply
Just look at the difference between 2 QBs who played a lot in the same era Eli Manning and Peyton Manning. Eli's stats are not even close to Peyton. That's the type of people he should be compared to, the best of the best.
Then every ball player should be compared to Babe Ruth......if they did that, the Hall would be empty....
It's not just about his stats....what about his team's stats? What did he have for a defense? What did he have for a running game? What did he have for receivers? He hasn't had a decent OL, the last 5 seasons, and yet he still put up respectable stats....the last 5 seasons, he has had an injured Nicks, an injured Cruz, and no TE's. Outside of OBj, and a rookie slot receiver, who did he have to throw to last season? Besides Bradshaw in 2012, who has Eli had for a RB these past 5 seasons? It's hard to carry the offense when you have no OL and no weapons....
Even if this is true, it has no bearing on any HOF vote. Any voter who thinks, "If he played for Pitt, I'd vote for him, but..." shouldn't have his/her vote pulled, he/she should be fired. The organization a player plays for his no bearing on whether he's a HOF'er or not.
Quote:
Read any Harris poll-Pitt is a more popular te than nyg consistently
Even if this is true, it has no bearing on any HOF vote. Any voter who thinks, "If he played for Pitt, I'd vote for him, but..." shouldn't have his/her vote pulled, he/she should be fired. The organization a player plays for his no bearing on whether he's a HOF'er or not.
agree with this, but it wouldn't surprise me if there were voters from other parts of the country that felt Eli was the benefit of the NY media hype machine.
Think about it: if Eli had 2 less interceptions in big spots per season (just 2 passes) we likely wouldn't be debating whether he deserves HOF first ballot or not. That is how close it is in my humble opinion. A key bad toss on prime time here and there each season has left Eli's rep a bit tarnished.
But one last time: have a big year this year, statistically and in the playoffs, and Eli is a first ballot lock with another ring, MVP or not.
But alas, it likely will continue...
Football Perspective - ( New Window )
He is nowhere near a lock. (This has nothing to do with how I feel about him. Talk to pretty much any non Giant fan and Eli is not so highly regarded. I've loved Eli ever since that brutal NFC championship against San Fran ... surviving that game alone should get him into the HOF)