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Eli v.s Brees

nicks14 : 7/11/2017 11:41 am
Before i start of course Brees puts up better numbers than Eli but since his first championship in 2009 what has he really done better than Eli other than meaningless stats? People slob all over Brees and call him a top 5 quarterback even though since 2011 is teams have underachieved or flat out stunk. Since the 2011 season they both made the playoffs once but no one holds that against Brees. I try not to be an Eli homer but the disrespect is starting to get out of hand.
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Brees is better than Eli.  
Mike in Long Beach : 7/11/2017 11:42 am : link
.
RE: Brees is better than Eli.  
nicks14 : 7/11/2017 11:45 am : link
In comment 13525292 Mike in Long Beach said:
Quote:
.


If he' so much better why hasn't he won more than Eli? Brees had three successful years where he actually won 2009-2011 but after that his teams produced less to or equal that of Eli's. Like i said if you want stats i'd go with Brees but this guy hasn't won nearly as much as people would want you to believe.
Of coarse  
PaulN : 7/11/2017 11:48 am : link
If any Giant fan does not see it they are blind, with that said, who gives a shit, we use it as a fan base to cheer our asses off for another ring for Eli, that would kill the haters, they have miraculously written off his first two as luck, and they will do it again with a third, hatred does not improve when the people who are hated succeed, it only gets worse, the haters will shut up for the moment only to save face. I hope we have the right head coach in place, I would like to think we do, he seems fanatical enough, and appears to be detail oriented, which is a must. Time will tell though. he is young and learning, just have to hope that Eli's experience offsets McAdoo's inexperience.
RE: Brees is better than Eli.  
crackerjack465 : 7/11/2017 11:49 am : link
In comment 13525292 Mike in Long Beach said:
Quote:
.


Yeah, those teams stunk because the Saints had atrocious defenses.

Off/Def Ranks
16': 2/31
15: 8/32
14: 9/28
13: 10/4 (they went 11-5 this year)
12: 3/31
11: 2/13 (13-3)
10: 11/7 (11-5)
09: 1/20 (13-3, won SB)

If Drew Brees had an average defense, I bet they make the playoffs every year and win another SB.
Outside the  
pjcas18 : 7/11/2017 11:49 am : link
dome Brees and Eli are a lot more similar.

I'm sure someone has done some type of statistical study, but playing at least half your games in a dome probably provides a statistical edge
Brees is better  
PaulN : 7/11/2017 11:52 am : link
But not by much, his stats are better, and he also needs a good team to win, no different then Eli. I agree with the disrespect that Eli gets, agree with your point, but don't agree if you believe that Eli is better, sorry but I can't agree with that. Eli is right there with Brees and Rodgers and Ben. He is not as good as his brother or Brady, but he is in the same class as the three I mentioned, not better then them though, you can make a better argument for those three being better, but the difference is not that much in my opinion.
RE: Brees is better  
arcarsenal : 7/11/2017 11:53 am : link
In comment 13525315 PaulN said:
Quote:
But not by much, his stats are better, and he also needs a good team to win, no different then Eli. I agree with the disrespect that Eli gets, agree with your point, but don't agree if you believe that Eli is better, sorry but I can't agree with that. Eli is right there with Brees and Rodgers and Ben. He is not as good as his brother or Brady, but he is in the same class as the three I mentioned, not better then them though, you can make a better argument for those three being better, but the difference is not that much in my opinion.


Eli is absolutely not "right there" with Aaron Rodgers.

Stop it.
RE: RE: Brees is better than Eli.  
nicks14 : 7/11/2017 11:54 am : link
In comment 13525308 crackerjack465 said:
Quote:
In comment 13525292 Mike in Long Beach said:


Quote:


.



Yeah, those teams stunk because the Saints had atrocious defenses.

Off/Def Ranks
16': 2/31
15: 8/32
14: 9/28
13: 10/4 (they went 11-5 this year)
12: 3/31
11: 2/13 (13-3)
10: 11/7 (11-5)
09: 1/20 (13-3, won SB)

If Drew Brees had an average defense, I bet they make the playoffs every year and win another SB.

...........................................................
Really that defense they had in that first season under Rob Ryan in 2013 was a pretty good defense and they got crushed by the Seahawks in that playoff game where Brees didn't show up. People will make any excuses in the world for why Brees doesn't win. Same could be said about if Eli had a decent defense as we seen this year.
Let me know when Brees whens a game outdoors that counts. Or  
Victor in CT : 7/11/2017 11:54 am : link
pulls out a when taking a viscious beating on the road like Eli did at SF in the 2011 NFC Title Game. Brees is a hot house flower.
**Wins** a game  
Victor in CT : 7/11/2017 11:55 am : link
.
Whats' funny..  
FatMan in Charlotte : 7/11/2017 11:55 am : link
is that if you look at Brees' stats outside of the dome, not only are Eli's superior outdoors, but Brees is barely above the average QB.

I like Brees. Seems like a good guy, a good leader and has been the face of the saints for years. I actually think he and eli are VERY similar. Both put up good numbers, both make critical mistakes, both have excellent images.

And more importantly in regards to other discussions going on right now - both are HoF QB's.
RE: RE: Brees is better  
nicks14 : 7/11/2017 11:57 am : link
In comment 13525317 arcarsenal said:
Quote:
In comment 13525315 PaulN said:


Quote:


But not by much, his stats are better, and he also needs a good team to win, no different then Eli. I agree with the disrespect that Eli gets, agree with your point, but don't agree if you believe that Eli is better, sorry but I can't agree with that. Eli is right there with Brees and Rodgers and Ben. He is not as good as his brother or Brady, but he is in the same class as the three I mentioned, not better then them though, you can make a better argument for those three being better, but the difference is not that much in my opinion.



Eli is absolutely not "right there" with Aaron Rodgers.

Stop it.


...........................................................
Ok in the regular season Rodgers is far better than Eli but i must ask you again if Aaron Rodgers is so great why is it that his play dips in the post season?
I've engaged in this debate many times...  
Danthebigbluefan : 7/11/2017 11:58 am : link
Here's the bottom line: who's won more SB's and performed better in the playoffs (when it ACTUALLY matters)?

The Matt Ryan's, Cam Newton's, Drew Brees' deserve their credit as it's due. But let's remember the conference and climate they play in.

For Christ sakes Josh Frickin' Freeman looked like a darn good QB in that uncompetitive, shitty, perfect-throwing-conditions division.

Brees plays 9 games a year in a dome (8 home + 1 @ ATL). The other divisional games are at Carolina (typically good weather and ideal passing conditions, and Tampa Bay (the same as @ CAR).

I remember when he lit the league on fire a few years back and threw God-like numbers up and everyone was ranting and raving about how great he is. Look, the guy's a terrific QB but put Eli, Rivers (who also has a great passing schedule), Brady, Rodgers, etc. in those conditions and it's the same or damn close numbers-wise.

Anyone who says Brees is better than Eli is looking at 1 thing: stats.

Stats are for losers. I'll take Captain Clutch every day of the week, twice on Sunday.

Has Drew Brees beat Tom Brady/Bill Belichick in the Super Bowl? Nope. Twice? Nope. Beat arguably the greatest team of all time ruining their undefeated season? Nope. Gone into Green Bay TWICE and knocked off Brett Favre then Aaron Rodgers? Nope.

So please, spare me this BS about Brees. Eli all day.
Brees would have been killed and would have missed a ton of games  
George from PA : 7/11/2017 12:11 pm : link
I like Eli
RE: RE: RE: Brees is better  
arcarsenal : 7/11/2017 12:17 pm : link
In comment 13525325 nicks14 said:
Quote:
In comment 13525317 arcarsenal said:


Quote:


In comment 13525315 PaulN said:


Quote:


But not by much, his stats are better, and he also needs a good team to win, no different then Eli. I agree with the disrespect that Eli gets, agree with your point, but don't agree if you believe that Eli is better, sorry but I can't agree with that. Eli is right there with Brees and Rodgers and Ben. He is not as good as his brother or Brady, but he is in the same class as the three I mentioned, not better then them though, you can make a better argument for those three being better, but the difference is not that much in my opinion.



Eli is absolutely not "right there" with Aaron Rodgers.

Stop it.



...........................................................
Ok in the regular season Rodgers is far better than Eli but i must ask you again if Aaron Rodgers is so great why is it that his play dips in the post season?


36 career playoff TD passes to 10 INTs. A Super Bowl ring and a 99.4 QBR.

I don't think you've watched much of Rodgers in the playoffs because that isn't a true statement.
.  
arcarsenal : 7/11/2017 12:18 pm : link
I love Eli as much as any person on this board. But we have to go full-stop when people start saying he's as good as Rodgers.
If you need to win a playoff game on the road  
Chris684 : 7/11/2017 12:19 pm : link
who are you taking?

Brees or Eli?
RE: .  
T-Bone : 7/11/2017 12:22 pm : link
In comment 13525340 arcarsenal said:
Quote:
I love Eli as much as any person on this board. But we have to go full-stop when people start saying he's as good as Rodgers.


I was thinking this very same thing.
Its tough to call him overrated because he is so good  
weeg in the bronx : 7/11/2017 12:22 pm : link
But he definitely benefits from playing on turf in the Dome and the throw at all costs offense. To his credit, he's had some solid talent but no HOF skill position players to bolster him. Shockey aside !!!
These are the type of threads we mock on ExtremeSkins  
Mike in Long Beach : 7/11/2017 12:28 pm : link
Stop it, guys.
RE: These are the type of threads we mock on ExtremeSkins  
Mike in Long Beach : 7/11/2017 12:29 pm : link
In comment 13525358 Mike in Long Beach said:
Quote:
Stop it, guys.


And to quantify this statement a bit, Eli is my favorite football player of all time and it's not close.
Oh, and if you're arguing Brees hasn't won as much as Eli  
Mike in Long Beach : 7/11/2017 12:32 pm : link
Brees' career winning%: 564
Eli's career winning%: 550

But I know, I know... Super Bowls are 2 to 1 baby. That's all that matters.
RE: RE: RE: Brees is better than Eli.  
NINEster : 7/11/2017 12:33 pm : link
In comment 13525318 nicks14 said:
Quote:
In comment 13525308 crackerjack465 said:


Quote:


In comment 13525292 Mike in Long Beach said:


Quote:


.



Yeah, those teams stunk because the Saints had atrocious defenses.

Off/Def Ranks
16': 2/31
15: 8/32
14: 9/28
13: 10/4 (they went 11-5 this year)
12: 3/31
11: 2/13 (13-3)
10: 11/7 (11-5)
09: 1/20 (13-3, won SB)

If Drew Brees had an average defense, I bet they make the playoffs every year and win another SB.


...........................................................
Really that defense they had in that first season under Rob Ryan in 2013 was a pretty good defense and they got crushed by the Seahawks in that playoff game where Brees didn't show up. People will make any excuses in the world for why Brees doesn't win. Same could be said about if Eli had a decent defense as we seen this year.


You're confusing the SNF or MNF game that year where the Saints did get annihilated.

The playoff game was a one score game that went down to the final play.

There are similarities between Brees and Eli....they both tend to throw a good amount of interceptions to offset their big time throws.

Eli peak is better than Brees post 2013 maybe, but on average Brees has been better. If the Saints had a top 5 defense they would definitely make noise in the postseason.

This year will be telling if the Giants defense returns to top 5 level. Eli will be expected to produce no questions asked.
RE: RE: Brees is better than Eli.  
Toth029 : 7/11/2017 12:33 pm : link
In comment 13525308 crackerjack465 said:
Quote:
In comment 13525292 Mike in Long Beach said:


Quote:


.



Yeah, those teams stunk because the Saints had atrocious defenses.

Off/Def Ranks
16': 2/31
15: 8/32
14: 9/28
13: 10/4 (they went 11-5 this year)
12: 3/31
11: 2/13 (13-3)
10: 11/7 (11-5)
09: 1/20 (13-3, won SB)

If Drew Brees had an average defense, I bet they make the playoffs every year and win another SB.

Pretty close to Eli, then.

Since 2005, people also have this misconception that Eli has had great defenses year after year. It's false.

Big Ben has had amazing defenses, however, and even San Diego has had better overall defenses since. Go look that up if you don't believe it.

So yes, Drew can't do it alone. But that is all the media and fans rag on Eli for.
Really??  
FatMan in Charlotte : 7/11/2017 12:35 pm : link
Quote:
These are the type of threads we mock on ExtremeSkins
Mike in Long Beach : 12:28 pm : link : reply
Stop it, guys.


Are we going to mock comparing two fairly equal players on extremeskins or will we mock a Cousins vs. Eli comp?

Or maybe the RGIII will be a star for decades thread?

Eli and Brees are very similar players
RE: Its tough to call him overrated because he is so good  
pjcas18 : 7/11/2017 12:35 pm : link
In comment 13525346 weeg in the bronx said:
Quote:
But he definitely benefits from playing on turf in the Dome and the throw at all costs offense. To his credit, he's had some solid talent but no HOF skill position players to bolster him. Shockey aside !!!


Jimmy Graham was pretty f-ing good in the Saints offense. He suffered the same injury Cruz did and isn't used the same way in SEA as he was in NO.

In addition to Graham, Marques Colston, Brandin Cooks, Reggie Bush, Darren Sproles and more and don't forget Brees was in SD with Ladainian Tomlinson and Antonio Gates

Anyway, agree with others, Eli and Rodgers is a silly discussion that only would exist among Giants fans.

Eli and Brees is a conversation.

Nationally, outside Giants nation Brees is far and away rated higher (and I'm not talking stats), but some of that is Eli bias, some of it is just that Brees is a damn good QB, like Eli so people have their preference.

nothing I'd get worked up over if someone had Brees over Eli or vice versa. One thing people do is give QB's too much credit for wins and losses. Too many variables on a football field to put all that responsibility on one player. But that's not going to change.
RE: Really??  
Mike in Long Beach : 7/11/2017 12:35 pm : link
In comment 13525370 FatMan in Charlotte said:
Quote:


Quote:


These are the type of threads we mock on ExtremeSkins
Mike in Long Beach : 12:28 pm : link : reply
Stop it, guys.



Are we going to mock comparing two fairly equal players on extremeskins or will we mock a Cousins vs. Eli comp?

Or maybe the RGIII will be a star for decades thread?

Eli and Brees are very similar players


k.
Brees and Eli are very similar types  
Rudy5757 : 7/11/2017 12:36 pm : link
Brees is more consistent and Eli is more durable.

If you put all the QBs in Eli's era and they were all the same age and you know what they can do where would you draft him?

I think if you set up a draft board like the Giants do then Eli winds up in the 2nd tier along with a bunch of other guys like Brees, Romo, McNabb, Ryan.

The 1st tier would be Peyton, Brady, Rodgers, Farve

Thats the way I see it
RE: I've engaged in this debate many times...  
Ron Johnson : 7/11/2017 12:39 pm : link
In comment 13525326 Danthebigbluefan said:
Quote:
Here's the bottom line: who's won more SB's


As a fan, I wouldn't trade a Lombardi trophy for anything. Championships is all that matters.
Here is my logic:  
Giant John : 7/11/2017 12:41 pm : link
At any point during Eli'e career would I have considered trading Eli for Drew?
Not at any point.
RE: Here is my logic:  
pjcas18 : 7/11/2017 12:42 pm : link
In comment 13525380 Giant John said:
Quote:
At any point during Eli'e career would I have considered trading Eli for Drew?
Not at any point.


I suspect the Saints say the same thing. They would never have traded Brees for Eli.
RE: RE: These are the type of threads we mock on ExtremeSkins  
Gatorade Dunk : 7/11/2017 12:42 pm : link
In comment 13525361 Mike in Long Beach said:
Quote:
In comment 13525358 Mike in Long Beach said:


Quote:


Stop it, guys.



And to quantify this statement a bit, Eli is my favorite football player of all time and it's not close.

What exactly are you quantifying there?
Just so I understand what's happening  
Mike in Long Beach : 7/11/2017 12:43 pm : link
People are arguing that a player who has 18,000 more yards, 145 more touchdowns, a 13 point higher QB rating, a better winning percentage, 5 seasons of 5,000 yards or more (compared to zero), two seasons of 40 TDs or more (compared to 0), and a 7% higher completion percentage is "fairly equal" to the other guy, our guy, because of a 2 to 1 Super Bowl number.

And I know, Eli is 2 years younger, so he's clearly tossing 9,000 yards and 76 touchdowns in each of the next two seasons and evening up the scorecard.

Good grief.

What's annoying is there are certainly qualifiers that absolutely legitimately do level that playing field. Brees has played in a dome for almost all of his career and that's inflated him numbers. But to lean on this as something that evens up the score is just so... I mean Jesus.
RE: RE: I've engaged in this debate many times...  
pjcas18 : 7/11/2017 12:45 pm : link
In comment 13525375 Ron Johnson said:
Quote:
In comment 13525326 Danthebigbluefan said:


Quote:


Here's the bottom line: who's won more SB's



As a fan, I wouldn't trade a Lombardi trophy for anything. Championships is all that matters.


How does that make one player better than another.

Charles Haley has 5 rings, is he better than Lawrence Taylor (Haley started out as an 3-4 OLB before moving to 4-3 DE like LT probably would have if he played in a 4-3).

Football is a team game, basing who is better or worse among players based on team wins is flawed.

I too cherish the rings more than anything else, but I also don't give a shit if someone prefers Brees to Eli or even Cousins to Eli. Just don't give a shit.

I'd like to remind  
T-Bone : 7/11/2017 12:49 pm : link
some of you that you're a Giants fans we're on a Giants site... so those of you saying you'd pick Eli over Brees, you're just a little biased don't ya think?
If Brees had played in the Meadowlands  
CT Charlie : 7/11/2017 1:05 pm : link
or Eli had played in the Dome, their careers might be very different. As it is, I'd call it a toss-up.
Well  
FatMan in Charlotte : 7/11/2017 1:11 pm : link
this is a bit disingenuous.

Quote:
And I know, Eli is 2 years younger, so he's clearly tossing 9,000 yards and 76 touchdowns in each of the next two seasons and evening up the scorecard.


Eli has played three season less than Brees, so while he won't match those numbers, he'll still be close and hasn't had the luxury of playing in a dome.

Like I said above - Brees' stats outside of the dome are completely different:
- Winning % - 13% lower
- Completion % - 5% lower
- QBR - 12 points lower
- In 6 more games outdoors, Brees has thrown for 5100 less yards
- 64 more TD's indoors in 6 fewer games

The differences are quite staggering.
RE: I'd like to remind  
Boatie Warrant : 7/11/2017 1:11 pm : link
In comment 13525395 T-Bone said:
Quote:
some of you that you're a Giants fans we're on a Giants site... so those of you saying you'd pick Eli over Brees, you're just a little biased don't ya think?


The answer to that is of course yes. That Doesn't change the fact that I would pick Eli over most QB's because he is not only a great QB but a perfect fit for the NY media.

Now I can only hope in three years that Webb is the second coming of John Elway (without the need for all those comebacks)
Brees  
Toth029 : 7/11/2017 1:19 pm : link
Isn't overrated like Ben Roethlsisberger is, but is it not fair to say he is a weaker QB outside the dome and, like Eli and other QB's, needs support to go somewhere far in this league? Stats are just that. If those numbers were so important and necessary, why does he have just one playoff win (over Nick Foles' led Eagles) over the past six seasons?

This past year Drew and his offense cost them several games one being a home game against an okay Lions squad, and laid an egg. But to mosr and the media, it's all the Saints defense fault. That game versus the Giants, not their defense's fault.
Brees is definitely the better QB  
UConn4523 : 7/11/2017 1:21 pm : link
if he didn't have a ring I'd delve into it a bit more, but he did and he's earned his place among the top QB's of the last 15 years.

As far as Eli goes, the two players couldn't have played in more different conditions. From NY to NO both in weather/field as well as the sports atmosphere and expectations in their given locales.
RE: RE: I'd like to remind  
T-Bone : 7/11/2017 1:22 pm : link
In comment 13525440 Boatie Warrant said:
Quote:
In comment 13525395 T-Bone said:


Quote:


some of you that you're a Giants fans we're on a Giants site... so those of you saying you'd pick Eli over Brees, you're just a little biased don't ya think?



The answer to that is of course yes. That Doesn't change the fact that I would pick Eli over most QB's because he is not only a great QB but a perfect fit for the NY media.

Now I can only hope in three years that Webb is the second coming of John Elway (without the need for all those comebacks)


I personally think the 'he's a great fit for the NY media' mantra is a bit overdone as well. Plenty of QBs have played in this city and I don't think too many of them didn't succeed because of the NY media. But hey... you guys are entitled to your opinions.
ehh  
UConn4523 : 7/11/2017 1:29 pm : link
I think NY definitely matters. Maybe not in basketball or baseball but for Football it makes a difference. Roethlisberger doesn't survive the rape scandal in NY, IMO. Brees would have been fine, but I can see it weighing on players much more heavily than it would playing with essentially zero media coverage in new orleans.
I also don't get the need to  
Mike in Long Beach : 7/11/2017 1:38 pm : link
hold Eli up in the light of that Tier 1 class of QBs.

Eli is a B+ quarterback who, due to fantastic durability and two runs for the ages, has an A+ resume.

Drew is an A quarterback with an A- resume.

So Brees slings it a little better. Big deal. We can still be OK with our guy.
This is really splitting hairs.  
Brown Recluse : 7/11/2017 1:40 pm : link
I'll take either guy. If I get to choose one or the other for my team, I win.
Not just the dome  
WillVAB : 7/11/2017 1:42 pm : link
But Brees has played in a QB friendly offense his entire career by a coach who tries to run up the score when ahead and salvage garbage stats when the game is out of reach.

It was pretty funny watching the Saints run their 2 min offense vs the Lions with the game out of reach only to watch Brees throw a RZ INT.
This thread makes me laugh  
NNJ Tom : 7/11/2017 1:48 pm : link
in 2001, 99% of BBI thought Brees sucked monkey balls. I got flamed for suggesting the Giants pick him.

Now, he is the second coming. Please continue the stupidity.

RE: ehh  
T-Bone : 7/11/2017 1:57 pm : link
In comment 13525452 UConn4523 said:
Quote:
I think NY definitely matters. Maybe not in basketball or baseball but for Football it makes a difference. Roethlisberger doesn't survive the rape scandal in NY, IMO. Brees would have been fine, but I can see it weighing on players much more heavily than it would playing with essentially zero media coverage in new orleans.


The question is how much of a difference? I don't think it's as great as some here would have you believe.
RE: This thread makes me laugh  
pjcas18 : 7/11/2017 2:00 pm : link
In comment 13525471 NNJ Tom said:
Quote:
in 2001, 99% of BBI thought Brees sucked monkey balls. I got flamed for suggesting the Giants pick him.

Now, he is the second coming. Please continue the stupidity.


You're the best. You should save that thread and print it out so you can read it every now and then and have some proof of that time 16 years ago when 99% of BBI said Drew Brees sucked monkey balls and you said he didn't and the Giants should pick him.

And yes, we will continue the stupidity unless of course you care to chime in on a thread and drop some of your vast knowledge on it, otherwise yes we will continue the stupidity.

Bravo NNJ Tom, Bravo
RE: RE: Brees is better than Eli.  
Gmen1982 : 7/11/2017 2:02 pm : link
In comment 13525301 nicks14 said:
Quote:
In comment 13525292 Mike in Long Beach said:


Quote:

Because it's a TEAM game. Eli had good performances and his TEAM played well enough to win the game.


.



If he' so much better why hasn't he won more than Eli? Brees had three successful years where he actually won 2009-2011 but after that his teams produced less to or equal that of Eli's. Like i said if you want stats i'd go with Brees but this guy hasn't won nearly as much as people would want you to believe.
RE: RE: ehh  
UConn4523 : 7/11/2017 2:05 pm : link
In comment 13525476 T-Bone said:
Quote:
In comment 13525452 UConn4523 said:


Quote:


I think NY definitely matters. Maybe not in basketball or baseball but for Football it makes a difference. Roethlisberger doesn't survive the rape scandal in NY, IMO. Brees would have been fine, but I can see it weighing on players much more heavily than it would playing with essentially zero media coverage in new orleans.



The question is how much of a difference? I don't think it's as great as some here would have you believe.


Of course and it isn't quantifiable so there's no way to prove anything.
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