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| “Everybody talks about greatest of all time, even before he got five. It’s just really difficult,” Montana said of picking the best ever. “I always tell people to go back and look at Sammy Baugh and Otto Graham footage and you’ll see it’s really how you compare those guys to today’s game and how you compare today’s game back to as far back as when we played.” |
Agreed. I'd also put Rice at WR on those guys' level.
Gabriel: “It’s Tom Brady, though.”
Sanu: “I know. I know. I’m never comfortable. We about to put up 40-something on their a**. What I’m saying is, they ain’t never seen anything like this.”
Gabriel: "We got to."
You will notice he references only Tom Brady as opposed to New England or the Patriots.
And Gabriel and Sanu are on offense
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Brady at QB, LT on D and Jimmy Brown as best RB..Then there are the other tiers of superstars
Agreed. I'd also put Rice at WR on those guys' level.
Yup
There are a few others I s out in that category as well.
Not saying. Brady isn't the best either. But the rules are so skewed tofaybfor QBs comapared even to the 80s it's not unreasonable
IMO though Brown and LT would be good even today.
Montana's time was great, but it just didn't seem to last as long as Brady's.
Let's just say that Tommy Uggs plays for the Jets and not Hoodie's Pats. Does Brady win any rings playing for the Jets? We all know Tom and his baby mama would still live in New York but I think that's about all which would be similar to the charmed career Brady's had in New England.
Brady works hard, he's smaht and makes all the throws. He's a great QB. But he plays as a part of the best run football team of all time. He's a big part of the success in NE but he ain't the secret sauce. Without Belichick, the legend of Tom Brady is never written.
For one game, or if I'm picking an all time great, I'd take Rodgers over either Brady or Super Joe.
In the Super Bowl era, if I need a QB for one game, I'm taking Elway. Smarts, arm strength, accuracy and mobility. He was very hamstrung by Dan Reeves. Elway on the 80s/90s 49ers or 2000s, 2010s Patriots win as many or more than Montana or Brady IMHO.
If your criteria is solely or very strongly based on championships, you have to pick Brady. Otherwise, pick someone else as the GOAT QB.
Greatest Of All Time
Not saying. Brady isn't the best either. But the rules are so skewed tofaybfor QBs comapared even to the 80s it's not unreasonable
IMO though Brown and LT would be good even today.
Agreed. BUt how dominant COULD he be allowed to be given the limits today's rules and the changing game allow him to be. LT was unrestrained. That and his fantastic talent makes him, to me, the greatest D guy in game ever. These days, I think he'd have to be more careful, which would take away the abandon he had at game time.
Thoughts?
To say guys from the earlier years would replicate the same production in this league today is not true.
Point being the game is faster , the players are stronger , and the playbook are even more challenging.
Not to mention the intensity of coverage from the media. You think players would be able to skate out of off field issues today as they did back then.
love him , hate him , respect him ...Brady is the GOAT
Moondawg : 7/11/2017 8:54 pm : link : reply
but I do sympathize with the frustration with people who say "all time" but who have zero understanding of football or football players before 1967.
Guys the size of me were lineman and after the games, guys would go have beers and smokes.
Hell, people marvel at Babe ruth, but he wasn't facing players from around the world or even players of color. The pool of athletes from back then was so much smaller, and that doesn't even take into account the fact that sports didn't pay all that well (especially football), meaning many potential players took a business job or worked on a family farm, etc.
Same here.. Peyton Manning went to 4 SB with the following coaches imagine what he would've done with the evil genius..
Gary Kubiak
John Fox
Tony Dungy
and Jim Caldwell...
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It's not a huge point
Moondawg : 7/11/2017 8:54 pm : link : reply
but I do sympathize with the frustration with people who say "all time" but who have zero understanding of football or football players before 1967.
Guys the size of me were lineman and after the games, guys would go have beers and smokes.
Hell, people marvel at Babe ruth, but he wasn't facing players from around the world or even players of color. The pool of athletes from back then was so much smaller, and that doesn't even take into account the fact that sports didn't pay all that well (especially football), meaning many potential players took a business job or worked on a family farm, etc.
This is precisely why I wonder if we should just abandon "all time" and decide on the best people *in their times*. The same old timers you speak of here would have the benefit of year-round training, and not just God-given talent.
With Brady, why not say "best QB of the Super Bowl Era" or something like that?
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Brady at QB, LT on D and Jimmy Brown as best RB..Then there are the other tiers of superstars
Agreed. I'd also put Rice at WR on those guys' level.
This
You're the only person I ever heard call Jim Brown "Jimmy Brown."
Odd thing is Rodgers his been better just about every year he's been a starter.
Just what I've noticed. Not my opinion. I could be mistaken.
On the other hand, the level of competition was much greater in that era and the rules were not slanted to promote the passing game as they are today.
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Brady at QB, LT on D and Jimmy Brown as best RB..Then there are the other tiers of superstars
You're the only person I ever heard call Jim Brown "Jimmy Brown."
He was known as Jimmy Brown when he played. That's all I ever knew him as..He changed to Jim Brown in the movies and that followed him all the way to today
The fact that Peyton won a SB with Jim Freaking Caldwell means something. Looking at another era, would Bart Starr be a HOF QB with a coach not named Lombardi? Or Montana without Walsh? Determining a GOAT ignores too many factors to be worth anything. That's wwhy I look at greatness in tiers. Both Brady and Peyton are in the top tier, but I'm hesitant to call either the GOAT.
In the Super Bowl era, if I need a QB for one game, I'm taking Elway. Smarts, arm strength, accuracy and mobility. He was very hamstrung by Dan Reeves. Elway on the 80s/90s 49ers or 2000s, 2010s Patriots win as many or more than Montana or Brady IMHO.
If your criteria is solely or very strongly based on championships, you have to pick Brady. Otherwise, pick someone else as the GOAT QB.
Montana beating Elway head to head on MNF as a Chief was great validation of his true greatness.
Also beating Steve Young the year the Niners last won the Super Bowl.
Joe's career with SF was cut short, and he was 4-0 by year 10 while Brady was only 3-1 by the same point in his career.
It wasn't until beating Seattle and now Atlanta that Brady GOAT talks have become "undisputed" but for awhile there he was having a hard enough time convincing people he was better than Peyton Manning.
There are also contradictions with people who easily acknowledge that Dan Marino is better than probably 80% of SB winning QBs, but yet Brady edging out Montana by one ring or making it to the big game a few more times is some undeniable "proof" that he's superior.
It's extremely close, and Brady's longevity has to be respected. But for pure talent and getting it done, Joe has every right to feel he's better.
He had way better mobility and played his entire career (every snap) under center. IMO a superior deep ball as well.
It's a good debate that can go either way.
And the difference between Patriots fans and 49er fans is this simple:
Patriots fans claim their boy is the GOAT despite losing two SBs to a wildcard team.
49er fans would nearly disown Montana if that was the case. See Steve Young prior to 1994 failing to get past a juggernaut Cowboy team.
He and Young give the Giants' plenty of credit for being a tough foe. What has Brady said about the Giants in similar regard?
The Giants of that era had nothing but s***ty thing to say about the Niners. If sweetheart Simms wanted to fight Ronnie Lott, that tells you everything you need to know about that locker room.
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threepeat..He has been bothered (imo) by the opinions that place him second to Brady all-time..I don't recall him ever giving Brady his due..
He and Young give the Giants' plenty of credit for being a tough foe. What has Brady said about the Giants in similar regard?
The Giants of that era had nothing but s***ty thing to say about the Niners. If sweetheart Simms wanted to fight Ronnie Lott, that tells you everything you need to know about that locker room.
He absolutely did not in the early to mid '90s..He was brutal on an Inside the NFL (?) pre Giants/Bills SB preview..Gave us zero respect..It's possible he was still sore (physically and emotionally) after the beating we gave him. Might have been on ESPN or another preview show..I chalked it up to his feelings from the NFCC, but it lingered for a few years afterwards. I transferred onto DVD, so I'll look into it
I know it was a bigger rivalry, but years later, ex-Niners seem to be more upset with the Giants than the Pats from 07 and 11.
You could also say, what happens if Brady has more time in both Giant losses, and wins both games?
Has nothing to do with woulda, coulda , or shoulda, it's the end result....
As we all know it's not QB's that win games, it's the team.....but they tend to get the credit/blame....
But let's face it.....Brady has a resume that is hard to beat....and it's not over yet....