NYK gets- Harkless and Leonard
Portland gets- Andersen
Houston gets- Melo
If this is the framework, I really hope the Knicks get 1st round picks from Houston and Portland along with Qi and Swanigan. Even if it means the Knicks taking back Turner in some combo instead. Just maximize the picks/ young players the Knicks get in return.
And Portland should be paying to turn Leonard/ Harkless into Andersen.
I can predict the press release now- "Knicks acquired 2 young athletic players in Mo Harkless and Myers Leonard. This fits our goal of getting players 25 and under."
Leaves out the part about them not being any good and overpaid for the next 3 years.
is solid, with an arrow potential pointing up, not a bad contract. Leonard is going into year 6, terrible contract for what he's been and isn't even expected to crack the Blazers rotation. Value wise he's garbage. 7'1 shooting 39% from the field is tough to pull off. Always injured, perfect Knick.
If it's Harkless and Leonard, depends on if they get a pick too. Add a first (even top 10 protected or something) and I think it's ok/worth moving on to have KP be the offensive focal point. If it's straight up Melo for those two, bad deal (would sooner get cap space to just hold Melo).
is solid, with an arrow potential pointing up, not a bad contract. Leonard is going into year 6, terrible contract for what he's been and isn't even expected to crack the Blazers rotation. Value wise he's garbage. 7'1 shooting 39% from the field is tough to pull off. Always injured, perfect Knick.
Qi and Swanigan can't be traded until August right? Ideally the Knicks bring back a 1st rounder and one of those guys.
Harkless would be nice if it comes with a future pick
Noah: 19.3 million
THJR: 18.2 million
Lee: 12.8 million
Leonard: 11.3 million
Harkless: 11 million
Thomas: 7.6 million
Total: 80 fucking million dollars
Not next season, not the following season, but three seasons from now for a pu pu platter. But for Frank becoming Giannis 2.0, we will be absolutely terrible. And KP will seriously consider leaving. You simply cannot take on Leonard and Harkless without significant futures coming back.
This trade really doesnt make any sense if it is Melo going to Houston, Houston shedding Anderson (negative value), and Houston not really adding anything. That's just a giveaway to Houston. Oh, and it gets us into WORSE cap shape?
that we'd just clear those contracts (ex. THJR who has another year) and go into Summer 2020 with cap space. No, we'd dig outselves into a a much deeper hole. Trading expiring contracts for other teams' cap mistakes.
to get out of $30 million owed to Carroll, who is a much better player than Leonard. So Leonard's value has to be negative 2 #1 picks, right? At least?
Fucking nonsense if our return is effectively those two POR players.
that we'd just clear those contracts (ex. THJR who has another year) and go into Summer 2020 with cap space. No, we'd dig outselves into a a much deeper hole. Trading expiring contracts for other teams' cap mistakes.
Im already sick of the Mills era.
On a normal NBA team, you could spin in that all those contracts are coming off the books at the same time ( THJ with a PO). But it's the Knicks so you are 100% right. They are allergic to any cap space or cap flexibility. It's maddening.
The 3 team trade with Milwaukee that Bill Simmons tweeted out would be much preferred. I have zero interest in Harkless or Leonard.
probably not much, but it seems like the Knicks reluctance to take back Leonard is the hold up here.
Also, we could stretch Noah pretty easily if we wanted more cap room.
No, we cant stretch Noah pretty easily. We can stretch him very, very painfully.
Correct me if I'm wrong, but we could stretch his cap hit to about 4M per for the next 5 years. Apparently that's the going rate for Ron Baker.
You dont get a cap savings. You pay the full amount, over the remaining seasons x2, plus 1 (there is a little variation based on whether it is before or after 9/1 each season).
If we stretch Noah right now, we'd owe him 55,590,500. Our cap would take a hit of 7,941,500 each year for the next 7 seasons.
Even if you were right, 4 million a year for 5 seasons isnt easy. It's a substantial waste of cap space. We shouldnt measure the value of cap space based on the stupid overpay of Ron Baker.
This is all so frustrating. We continue to be so poorly run. We literally have no idea how to manage the cap.
I'm not usually that guy, but this didn't seem like it needed a new
back harkless. He has shown flashes and is still young. And 3/30 really isnt that bad in todays nba. Not for a 24 year old with some upside. Leonard sucks though, no interest in him. I mean if we somehow ended up getting back Qi and Swanigan id be ok with taking back leonard. Not thrilled, but i could at least live with it. Why did POR even sign Leonard to that deal, seems dumber then the crabbe deal.
the nene instagram, Mike D, etc... this trade is happening. At least the knicks are holding firm on not taking back crappy deals so far. They didnt want anderson so they got POR to take him, now they dont want leonard and they are looking for a 4th team to take him. I mean the final trade will surely disappoint, but they seem to be trying to do the right thing, lol.
but teams are still working. So i guess we should expect a trade any second.
Also says that the Pelicans are looking to get in on the deal, but doesnt really say for what.
Somehow the Knicks ridiculous desperation to trade Melo has turned from maybe a chance to get back an asset or two to the whole league wondering if they can dump their bad contracts on the Knicks.
probably not much, but it seems like the Knicks reluctance to take back Leonard is the hold up here.
Also, we could stretch Noah pretty easily if we wanted more cap room.
No, we cant stretch Noah pretty easily. We can stretch him very, very painfully.
Correct me if I'm wrong, but we could stretch his cap hit to about 4M per for the next 5 years. Apparently that's the going rate for Ron Baker.
You dont get a cap savings. You pay the full amount, over the remaining seasons x2, plus 1 (there is a little variation based on whether it is before or after 9/1 each season).
If we stretch Noah right now, we'd owe him 55,590,500. Our cap would take a hit of 7,941,500 each year for the next 7 seasons.
Even if you were right, 4 million a year for 5 seasons isnt easy. It's a substantial waste of cap space. We shouldnt measure the value of cap space based on the stupid overpay of Ron Baker.
This is all so frustrating. We continue to be so poorly run. We literally have no idea how to manage the cap.
You do get cap savings in the year that he is stretched. I.E. if we waited until 2019, his remaining 19 mil would be spread over 3 years, so we would get about 13M to spend that offseason.
I also assumed you got that the Ron Baker comment was tongue in cheek.
Steve KylerVerified account @stevekylerNBA 3m3 minutes ago
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Buzz from today in Vegas is Houston might have their Carmelo deal - would be a 4 team deal. Unclear the pieces, but some chatter for sure
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You never get cap savings. The cap hit is just "stretched" out over many years. So yeah, if we do it in the final year, we pay him 6x3 instead of 18x1 (or thereabout). That just extends the pain. I dont think that makes it any easier.
It's not like the NHL, where you cut a guy and then pay 2/3 of the cap hit over an increased # of seasons. We're stuck with the full $$ on the Noah contract and stretching just slices it differently.
I wish Mills would just come out and say "We plan on staying as young and cheap as we can until 2020, when we'll have tons of cap space, and our only contracts will be 28 year old Hardaway, 24 year old KP, 25 year old Willy, 22 year old Frank and 21 year old Doncic."
But they're just going to keep overpaying average players, and our opportunity to make a real splash will go by the wayside.
You never get cap savings. The cap hit is just "stretched" out over many years. So yeah, if we do it in the final year, we pay him 6x3 instead of 18x1 (or thereabout). That just extends the pain. I dont think that makes it any easier.
It's not like the NHL, where you cut a guy and then pay 2/3 of the cap hit over an increased # of seasons. We're stuck with the full $$ on the Noah contract and stretching just slices it differently.
I think we're saying the same thing. My only point is if we had a real need for another 13M in 2019, it could be done via one transaction that the Knicks have control over.
I wish Mills would just come out and say "We plan on staying as young and cheap as we can until 2020, when we'll have tons of cap space, and our only contracts will be 28 year old Hardaway, 24 year old KP, 25 year old Willy, 22 year old Frank and 21 year old Doncic."
But they're just going to keep overpaying average players, and our opportunity to make a real splash will go by the wayside.
They're just accumulating random guys under 25 without significant regard for the cap. It's the cap mismanagement that's killing me. They have no sophistication on the cap. They dont realize that you have to carefully dole out long term money, or that you can weaponize the cap to accelerate the rebuild.
Honestly, how did we not undercut the Nets on the Carroll trade? I bet we could have done it and Dolan & Co. were still scared of the Rap's GM.
Steve KylerVerified account @stevekylerNBA 3m3 minutes ago
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Buzz from today in Vegas is Houston might have their Carmelo deal - would be a 4 team deal. Unclear the pieces, but some chatter for sure
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steve kyler doesnt know shut, yesterday he said talks were going nowhere
I wish Mills would just come out and say "We plan on staying as young and cheap as we can until 2020, when we'll have tons of cap space, and our only contracts will be 28 year old Hardaway, 24 year old KP, 25 year old Willy, 22 year old Frank and 21 year old Doncic."
But they're just going to keep overpaying average players, and our opportunity to make a real splash will go by the wayside.
How do we know this isn't the plan? Mills already outright said they are looking to make the roster younger and more athletic. Let's wait and see what the return on the Melo trade is before we get ahead of ourselves and say the plan is anything other than staying "young and cheap until 2020."
I wish Mills would just come out and say "We plan on staying as young and cheap as we can until 2020, when we'll have tons of cap space, and our only contracts will be 28 year old Hardaway, 24 year old KP, 25 year old Willy, 22 year old Frank and 21 year old Doncic."
But they're just going to keep overpaying average players, and our opportunity to make a real splash will go by the wayside.
How do we know this isn't the plan? Mills already outright said they are looking to make the roster younger and more athletic. Let's wait and see what the return on the Melo trade is before we get ahead of ourselves and say the plan is anything other than staying "young and cheap until 2020."
I hope you're right. That is what we should be doing.
I just don't trust this FO to make the right decisions.
I wish Mills would just come out and say "We plan on staying as young and cheap as we can until 2020, when we'll have tons of cap space, and our only contracts will be 28 year old Hardaway, 24 year old KP, 25 year old Willy, 22 year old Frank and 21 year old Doncic."
But they're just going to keep overpaying average players, and our opportunity to make a real splash will go by the wayside.
How do we know this isn't the plan? Mills already outright said they are looking to make the roster younger and more athletic. Let's wait and see what the return on the Melo trade is before we get ahead of ourselves and say the plan is anything other than staying "young and cheap until 2020."
I hope you're right. That is what we should be doing.
I just don't trust this FO to make the right decisions.
After we bring on Evan Turner, Meyers Leonard, or some other equally shitty contract in this deal then I'll be shitting on Mills right there along with you.
If the Pelicans are interested in getting involved as reported by Berman, I would be trying to take on their bad contracts to get picks. I would also include Lee to sweeten the pot. See the link for the trade. Pelicans would have to send back back 2 future 1sts and the rockets would include a future 1st.
New Orleans would be giving up 2 1st round picks for Lee and Ryno and to dump the awful contracts of Asik/ Moore/ Hill. Their GM is on the hot seat and they need to win this year in order to keep Cousins.
I know this is beyond wishful thinking, but getting 3 future 1sts for Lee and Melo would be fantastic. And honestly it makes a lot of sense for all 3 teams.
If the Pelicans are interested in getting involved as reported by Berman, I would be trying to take on their bad contracts to get picks. I would also include Lee to sweeten the pot. See the link for the trade. Pelicans would have to send back back 2 future 1sts and the rockets would include a future 1st.
New Orleans would be giving up 2 1st round picks for Lee and Ryno and to dump the awful contracts of Asik/ Moore/ Hill. Their GM is on the hot seat and they need to win this year in order to keep Cousins.
I know this is beyond wishful thinking, but getting 3 future 1sts for Lee and Melo would be fantastic. And honestly it makes a lot of sense for all 3 teams.
What do you guys think? Trade Machine - ( New Window )
If the Pelicans are interested in getting involved as reported by Berman, I would be trying to take on their bad contracts to get picks. I would also include Lee to sweeten the pot. See the link for the trade. Pelicans would have to send back back 2 future 1sts and the rockets would include a future 1st.
New Orleans would be giving up 2 1st round picks for Lee and Ryno and to dump the awful contracts of Asik/ Moore/ Hill. Their GM is on the hot seat and they need to win this year in order to keep Cousins.
I know this is beyond wishful thinking, but getting 3 future 1sts for Lee and Melo would be fantastic. And honestly it makes a lot of sense for all 3 teams.
What do you guys think? Trade Machine - ( New Window )
Why would the Knicks do this?
2 future 1st round picks from New Orleans and 1 future 1st round pick from Houston.
If the Pelicans are interested in getting involved as reported by Berman, I would be trying to take on their bad contracts to get picks. I would also include Lee to sweeten the pot. See the link for the trade. Pelicans would have to send back back 2 future 1sts and the rockets would include a future 1st.
New Orleans would be giving up 2 1st round picks for Lee and Ryno and to dump the awful contracts of Asik/ Moore/ Hill. Their GM is on the hot seat and they need to win this year in order to keep Cousins.
I know this is beyond wishful thinking, but getting 3 future 1sts for Lee and Melo would be fantastic. And honestly it makes a lot of sense for all 3 teams.
What do you guys think? Trade Machine - ( New Window )
Why would the Knicks do this?
2 future 1st round picks from New Orleans and 1 future 1st round pick from Houston.
And they take on three brutal contracts.
The only actual player I'd be interested in from the Pelicans is
If the Pelicans are interested in getting involved as reported by Berman, I would be trying to take on their bad contracts to get picks. I would also include Lee to sweeten the pot. See the link for the trade. Pelicans would have to send back back 2 future 1sts and the rockets would include a future 1st.
New Orleans would be giving up 2 1st round picks for Lee and Ryno and to dump the awful contracts of Asik/ Moore/ Hill. Their GM is on the hot seat and they need to win this year in order to keep Cousins.
I know this is beyond wishful thinking, but getting 3 future 1sts for Lee and Melo would be fantastic. And honestly it makes a lot of sense for all 3 teams.
What do you guys think? Trade Machine - ( New Window )
Why would the Knicks do this?
2 future 1st round picks from New Orleans and 1 future 1st round pick from Houston.
And they take on three brutal contracts.
Carroll is better than all 3 and just returned a 1 and a 2 for his remaining 30 million. Carroll is still a decent player -- would make the rotation of very good teams. LA had to attach Russell to be rid of Moz, and I think Russell would have returned 4 or 5 overall value in this draft, straight up.
These guys suck. Taking on their remaining 90-100 million should return 5 or 6 #1s IMO unless maybe you have really good cause to believe some of the picks will be high.
It's almost like people think you should get LESS for taking back a ton of bad contracts. Nuts.
RE: The only actual player I'd be interested in from the Pelicans is
Chieck Diallo, who has very good potential. Other than that, I just want draft picks from them.
That's the whole point of my proposed trade. If Melo is going to the Rockets, they are taking back major contracts. Outside of finding some magical expiring 25million dollar contract, theres no other options. I would rather than maximize their picks by just absorbing these bad contracts.
The Rockets get Melo and dump Ryno for one 1st round pick. The Pels turn their garbage contracts and players into two good players that help them. And the Knicks get 3 future 1sts instead of some package of Harkless/ Leonard or whatever else is out there. Give me the picks.
But he seems to be following along with his stated goal to get "younger and more athletic", As fans that's what we should want. Guys like Harkless and picks. If he does that I will give him props. And if the intent is to have Baker play 20 min or so of PG then 4 mil a year is not bad. He's just not very good but the thought process is correct. A place holder for Frank, not someone who will slow his growth. Mills is NOT doing a horrible job so far IMO.
But he seems to be following along with his stated goal to get "younger and more athletic", As fans that's what we should want. Guys like Harkless and picks. If he does that I will give him props. And if the intent is to have Baker play 20 min or so of PG then 4 mil a year is not bad. He's just not very good but the thought process is correct. A place holder for Frank, not someone who will slow his growth. Mills is NOT doing a horrible job so far IMO.
you have to be able to walk and chew gum at the same time. You dont get credit for getting younger if you lay waste to the salary cap in the process.
They are going to be a terrible team AND capped out
With the Noah contract. Mills or whomever is stuck with it. Compared to that deal the THJ signing is not horrible and Baker for 2 years as a placeholder is not horrible. Let's see what happens here
With the Noah contract. Mills or whomever is stuck with it. Compared to that deal the THJ signing is not horrible and Baker for 2 years as a placeholder is not horrible. Let's see what happens here
Well the THJR deal was an overpay. And the Baker deal was an overpay. Both also got options, meaning they get to rob us of the upside.
If you overpay on every deal you're screwed. Also he was part of the front office that made the last round of bad moves. We've seen no evidence that Phil made those moves over Mills' objection.
People act like the Kmicks should give Anthony away for 2 cigars and a bottle of scotch and make NO other moves in the off season. Mills wants to run the show. Doing that and winning 10 games in NY won't cut it. The right idea is to get younger, more athletic develop a core to grow together facilitate Frank's growth- so far this is what he's done. You don't like the players fine, the contracts in today's NBA are not horrible. What is screwing the cap is Noah's contract which is to the best of our knowledge Jackson's doing. If he brings back a useful young player and a #1 without any bad contracts I would say he did pretty well.
that signing free agents in EVERY sport requires an overpay. That's why the draft is the way to build. Now if you want to say he shouldn't be signing ANY free agents I can respect that.
that signing free agents in EVERY sport requires an overpay. That's why the draft is the way to build. Now if you want to say he shouldn't be signing ANY free agents I can respect that.
Knicks are grossly overpaying. There is no explaining the Baker contract. THJR got an offer ATL didnt even consider matching.
And increasingly ok to good teams can bargain shop in the NBA.
And you know what? The Knicks arent going to be good next year. We dont need to be overpaying to get a little bit better. I was okay with the THJR deal, but not if it's gonna be a pattern.
Get Harkless and nothing else it's a good deal for Knicks unless they give rondo or rose $10 million per year for the next 4 years which I fully anticipate they will do. Very strange that rondo and rose have not signed withanyone yet. Seems like they are waiting For Melo trade
People act like the Kmicks should give Anthony away for 2 cigars and a bottle of scotch and make NO other moves in the off season. Mills wants to run the show. Doing that and winning 10 games in NY won't cut it. The right idea is to get younger, more athletic develop a core to grow together facilitate Frank's growth- so far this is what he's done. You don't like the players fine, the contracts in today's NBA are not horrible. What is screwing the cap is Noah's contract which is to the best of our knowledge Jackson's doing. If he brings back a useful young player and a #1 without any bad contracts I would say he did pretty well.
I don't think they should make no moves.
They should make smart moves.
Now they can't make ANY moves because they don't have any cap flexibility.
Marc J. SpearsVerified account @MarcJSpearsESPN
Free agent forward Shabazz Muhammad is receiving interest from the Hawks, Nets, Bucks and Knicks, a source says.
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Free agent forward Shabazz Muhammad is receiving interest from the Hawks, Nets, Bucks and Knicks, a source says.
but one of the biggest benefits of young players is that they are on favorable contracts. Overpaying these young athletic players is a risky proposition because you are paying significantly for potential.
Noah: 19.3 million
THJR: 18.2 million
Lee: 12.8 million
Leonard: 11.3 million
Harkless: 11 million
Thomas: 7.6 million
Total: 80 fucking million dollars
Not next season, not the following season, but three seasons from now for a pu pu platter. But for Frank becoming Giannis 2.0, we will be absolutely terrible. And KP will seriously consider leaving. You simply cannot take on Leonard and Harkless without significant futures coming back.
This trade really doesnt make any sense if it is Melo going to Houston, Houston shedding Anderson (negative value), and Houston not really adding anything. That's just a giveaway to Houston. Oh, and it gets us into WORSE cap shape?
This would make me want to cry if it weren't so damn Knicksian.
Thanks god there are other teams and storylines I can enjoy.
Melo gets traded and Knicks save $10-$15 on cap. What are they going to do with that do they have to use it? I can't imagine how many bad contracts will be signed. I am hoping 1 year deals or 2 year deals with team option in year 2
Melo gets traded and Knicks save $10-$15 on cap. What are they going to do with that do they have to use it? I can't imagine how many bad contracts will be signed. I am hoping 1 year deals or 2 year deals with team option in year 2
Trey Rodriguez
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Moe Harkless, among other assets, is headed to New York, as part of the multiple-team trade sending Carmelo Anthony to Houston. #Knicks
harkless + other assets and no leonard. That would be a win for us.
Also knicks have inquired about Bledsoe and Ramon Sessions. Not really interested in either one. Although as long as we didnt trade a future first for bledsoe id be fine with it. Of course i dont see how we get him without including a first which is why my interest is low on him.
Lavar but Lonzo is a stud. Lakers luck strikes again.
Said the the second the sixers passed on ball. The lakers stepped in shit once again. Ball is the best pg in the draft. Probably the best player. People over thought this one.
harkless + other assets and no leonard. That would be a win for us.
Also knicks have inquired about Bledsoe and Ramon Sessions. Not really interested in either one. Although as long as we didnt trade a future first for bledsoe id be fine with it. Of course i dont see how we get him without including a first which is why my interest is low on him.
i wonder if knicks will flip assets with lee to phoenix for bledsoe? has to be hornacek pushing for bledsoe...
Carroll is better than all 3 and just returned a 1 and a 2 for his remaining 30 million. Carroll is still a decent player -- would make the rotation of very good teams. LA had to attach Russell to be rid of Moz, and I think Russell would have returned 4 or 5 overall value in this draft, straight up.
These guys suck. Taking on their remaining 90-100 million should return 5 or 6 #1s IMO unless maybe you have really good cause to believe some of the picks will be high.
It's almost like people think you should get LESS for taking back a ton of bad contracts. Nuts. [/quote]
Major difference is that New Orleans is taking back the same amount of money in the trade. It's not a salary dump, it's just getting better players.
You are gambling on things blowing up in New Orleans with Cousins leaving and even possibly Davis leaving down the line. It's an outside the box trade but the reward outweighs the risk. The Knicks are already going to be capped out the next 3 years. Why not get 3 future 1sts in return?
Mills would never do this trade but I sure wish he would.
I don't think the Knicks have the pieces to get Bledsoe but I would certainly try. He is a top 25 player in the league who is in his prime. I don't get why people are so down on him.
tank plan so i dont think it would be worth spinning whatever we get from HOU/POR into Bledsoe. And without that we dont have the pieces to get him. Im pretty sure Lee and KOQ doesnt get it done, lol.
I don't think the Knicks have the pieces to get Bledsoe but I would certainly try. He is a top 25 player in the league who is in his prime. I don't get why people are so down on him.
He misses a lot of games.
81
40
76
43
81
31
66
He will be 28 early next basketball season. The chances of that issue improving with age are slim.
not a swipe at anyone here but I often see stuff like "they can try".... what are they trying with? The Knicks best assets are
KP
Willy
Frank
1st round picks
they have NOTHING else of value for Eric Bledsoe. This isn't like other sports where there is a minor league system and "prospects". Bledsoe has a below market deal (2 years 14.5 per season). What are you giving up? They have nothing.
not a swipe at anyone here but I often see stuff like "they can try".... what are they trying with? The Knicks best assets are
KP
Willy
Frank
1st round picks
they have NOTHING else of value for Eric Bledsoe. This isn't like other sports where there is a minor league system and "prospects". Bledsoe has a below market deal (2 years 14.5 per season). What are you giving up? They have nothing.
i was saying if they really do get harkless and "assets" maybr the plan is to flip those assets with lee for bledsoe...
if they do not get anything otger than harkless then you are not getting bledsoe
not a swipe at anyone here but I often see stuff like "they can try".... what are they trying with? The Knicks best assets are
KP
Willy
Frank
1st round picks
they have NOTHING else of value for Eric Bledsoe. This isn't like other sports where there is a minor league system and "prospects". Bledsoe has a below market deal (2 years 14.5 per season). What are you giving up? They have nothing.
i was saying if they really do get harkless and "assets" maybr the plan is to flip those assets with lee for bledsoe...
if they do not get anything otger than harkless then you are not getting bledsoe
The Blazers aren't taking Ryan Anderson and also giving up Harkless and a 1st, that would be ridiculous and the Rockets don't have a first until 2019 and their pick figures to be awful. That's the best the Suns can do for Eric Bledsoe? Seems far fetched.
I think that would be a win for the Knicks if they got Bledsoe
Harkless is NOT part of the trade we can officially cross off Hoopsinq as a legit source, even if he is it doesn't mean anything because we've been hearing Harkless involved for weeks but they (like Jsports) have gone all-in on making definitive statements.
I think fans are going to be awfully disappointing in this return. If they are refusing to take on any "bad" contracts, they aren't getting a bundle of picks and young players. You can't have it both ways. When the rockets were looking to dump Andersen, the asking price around the league was 2 future 1sts unprotected. Mills is going to get hosed in this deal. He's in over his head based off the last 2 contracts he just did. Now he's going to successfully navigate a 3 or 4 team trade? He couldn't sign his own restricted free agent Ron Baker to a team friendly deal.
And going after Bledsoe is such a Knicks move it hurts. Nice player but not for the Knicks. It would take future picks to have a shot at him which would be idiotic for the Knicks to do.
Team Africa, comprised of players born in Africa and second-generation African players, will be led by team captains Luol Deng (Los Angeles Lakers; South Sudan) and Thabo Sefolosha (most recently with the Atlanta Hawks; Switzerland; South African parent).
Download and log into the new Kwes App and watch Live NBA action for free at the click of a button. Download the Android app at Google Play, or the iOS version at the App Store!
Deng and Sefolosha will be joined by Bismack Biyombo (Orlando Magic; Democratic Republic of Congo), Clint Capela (Houston Rockets; Switzerland; parents from Angola and Congo), Gorgui Dieng (Minnesota Timberwolves; Senegal), Joel Embiid (Philadelphia 76ers; Cameroon), Serge Ibaka (Toronto Raptors; Congo), Luc Mbah a Moute (most recently with the LA Clippers; Cameroon), Salah Mejri (Dallas Mavericks; Tunisia), Emmanuel Mudiay (Denver Nuggets; DRC), Victor Oladipo (Indiana Pacers; US.; Nigerian parent) and Dennis Schroder (Atlanta Hawks; Germany; Gambian parent).
Team Africa, comprised of players born in Africa and second-generation African players, will be led by team captains Luol Deng (Los Angeles Lakers; South Sudan) and Thabo Sefolosha (most recently with the Atlanta Hawks; Switzerland; South African parent).
Download and log into the new Kwes App and watch Live NBA action for free at the click of a button. Download the Android app at Google Play, or the iOS version at the App Store!
Deng and Sefolosha will be joined by Bismack Biyombo (Orlando Magic; Democratic Republic of Congo), Clint Capela (Houston Rockets; Switzerland; parents from Angola and Congo), Gorgui Dieng (Minnesota Timberwolves; Senegal), Joel Embiid (Philadelphia 76ers; Cameroon), Serge Ibaka (Toronto Raptors; Congo), Luc Mbah a Moute (most recently with the LA Clippers; Cameroon), Salah Mejri (Dallas Mavericks; Tunisia), Emmanuel Mudiay (Denver Nuggets; DRC), Victor Oladipo (Indiana Pacers; US.; Nigerian parent) and Dennis Schroder (Atlanta Hawks; Germany; Gambian parent).
a friendly salary for someone who *appears* to not be much of a difference maker. But then again, I haven't seen him play much. What's the consensus on him?
"MRW I notice Harkless part of a trade but also Leonard"
-It's pretty toxic
Hes probably one of the worst under-30 players in the NBA not on a rookie or minimum deal.
Harkless for Anderson straight up is questionable, but dumping Leonard along with it makes it better.
-Meyers Leonard is our Dirk Nowitzki...only he's terrible and not German
-But we would really like Leonard to go.
Salaries dont have to match for NY, as they have lots of room. Harkless, Leonard and Ariza are probably all headed to NY.
-Eh
Overall I dont "believe" the trade Leonard cant play next to; or replace, Porzingod. No way NYK really wants a piece of him. Harkless, on the other hand, is a better fit and slots into Melos place (badly, but they play the same position).
-We might have to give one more piece or picks to make this happen but also love the idea of finally splitting with Leonard. Were over that experiment time to move on.
what it's worth Blazers fans also don't seem too broken up about losing Harkless, some like him but there doesn't seem to be any great "love" for him or view him as a huge loss. Leonard seems like their hated player though.
I think fans are going to be awfully disappointing in this return. If they are refusing to take on any "bad" contracts, they aren't getting a bundle of picks and young players. You can't have it both ways. When the rockets were looking to dump Andersen, the asking price around the league was 2 future 1sts unprotected. Mills is going to get hosed in this deal. He's in over his head based off the last 2 contracts he just did. Now he's going to successfully navigate a 3 or 4 team trade? He couldn't sign his own restricted free agent Ron Baker to a team friendly deal.
And going after Bledsoe is such a Knicks move it hurts. Nice player but not for the Knicks. It would take future picks to have a shot at him which would be idiotic for the Knicks to do.
I think we will be disappointed in the return, but I reject the concept that we're somehow having it both ways. We're trading a star player. Queue the Melo haters. But the guy can volume score with no help, and is maintaining his career eFG. The only reason we're gonna get squat is that we're very, very poorly run. We are the player at the table that everyone else (Melo included) knows they can take advantage of.
If the return for Melo is ho hum futures and Harkless, a well run team would pass. It wouldnt fall into some trap of believing that you have to trade Melo now and move on. It would stop trading guys at the nadir of their value, stop acquiring guys well past their peak, and stop signing free agents to overpays.
is Portland even involved in this deal? Taking on Anderson's contract when you can't really compete in the West is a pretty shocking move. I'd think they'd want to shed money no?
what it's worth Blazers fans also don't seem too broken up about losing Harkless, some like him but there doesn't seem to be any great "love" for him or view him as a huge loss. Leonard seems like their hated player though.
I really don't think Harkless is worth taking on Leonard. Would have to be picks included to make it worth it. He's really not any good and not on a good contract.
is Portland even involved in this deal? Taking on Anderson's contract when you can't really compete in the West is a pretty shocking move. I'd think they'd want to shed money no?
This only really seems to make sense for HOU, which is getting Melo for a negative value Anderson and some not very impressive assets (because they really dont have futures to trade).
perspective, Morey is all in for next season. But this would not be a good trade for Portland. They seemed destined to be in that 7-8 seed role year over year, and this just adds salary to the team.
sources say that Portland is even in the deal other than Jsports a week ago but he also said yesterday he doesn't know if that's the current framework. It seems like he said that and then all the Tommy Dee's of the world started to throw Portland in there and guess that it's close or done to claim credit and now it has become assumed that Portland is in there. They makes sense as a third time but I don't think they have any higher likelihood of being in the deal as say the Pelicans, Suns or Denver does.
sources say that Portland is even in the deal other than Jsports a week ago but he also said yesterday he doesn't know if that's the current framework. It seems like he said that and then all the Tommy Dee's of the world started to throw Portland in there and guess that it's close or done to claim credit and now it has become assumed that Portland is in there. They makes sense as a third time but I don't think they have any higher likelihood of being in the deal as say the Pelicans, Suns or Denver does.
woj said yesterday that the knicks and rockets feel confident they have a 3 team bit there is one player that neither wants and they are looking for a 4th team...
everyone assunes it is portland and leonard is the player no one wants
for anderson i dont think its a bad move for POR. It turns two bad contracts into one bad contract, but Anderson is by far the best player of the 3. Now if POR throws in anything else then i dont really get it for them. That said lots of teams still want to try to make the playoffs.
There was an article in the Post today hinting that the Pelicans may be interested in getting Anderson back (he used to play there). However, with Davis and Cousins, that might be hard to do.
There is a possible 4 way deal that involves Portland and New Orleans, if each team is willing to take a risk.
Suppose the Knicks send Melo to Houston and Lee to Portland.
Portland sends Harkless, Ezeli, Davis and Vonleh to the Knicks with a 1st rounder.
Houston sends Anderson and Gordon to N.O. and Ariza to the Knicks.
New Orleans sends Cousins to Houston and Asik to Portland.
Obviously, some filler all around would be required to make salaries match.
For Houston, it would be a massive gamble that Melo, Cousins, Paul and Harden can co-exist- but on paper, that is a team that could legitimately contend in the West- while still having a decent bench.
For the Knicks, outside of a 1st rounder, they aren't getting much- if any- in player value for Melo or Lee. However, they would get a fistful of expiring deals and some cap relief.
For New Orleans, they aren't getting much of a return on Cousins- but they might have trouble signing him in FA anyway. They would add two outside scorers would could better space the floor for Davis and give Holiday options to distribute. They would not be a contender, but might be more balanced and competitive in the West.
Portland gets not very much talent for what amounts to 4 bench players- but they would get some minor cap relief. They could extend the cap relief even more if they could slide say, Leonard for Moore from N.O. It would also allow them to market CJ McCollum for some real 3-4 spot talent.
It isn't a perfect trade for any of the teams, and all would assume some degree of risk, with only Houston having obvious upside. However, each team has holes and issues- and this at least tries to address those issues for all.
and let Melo rebuild his trade value leading up to the trade deadline this season hoping that a team (Cleveland/Houston/Miami...name another) would see him as the piece they need to get over the top?
and let Melo rebuild his trade value leading up to the trade deadline this season hoping that a team (Cleveland/Houston/Miami...name another) would see him as the piece they need to get over the top?
I get the idea. But the Knicks need to tank. And after all of the shit that has gone on. The Knicks and melo need this relationship to end. He has to be gone come training camp
This is a chance to start fresh and grow some chemistry between young guys
(Frank,thj,porz,Gomez). Also to build what hornacek wants in place.
If you keep melo you just keep the media on top of the trade rumors and keep the ball stopper who doesn't help develop anyone. Add in that melo will hurt the ability to tank by having his nights of 35 points and it's just not smart to keep him
sources say that Portland is even in the deal other than Jsports a week ago but he also said yesterday he doesn't know if that's the current framework. It seems like he said that and then all the Tommy Dee's of the world started to throw Portland in there and guess that it's close or done to claim credit and now it has become assumed that Portland is in there. They makes sense as a third time but I don't think they have any higher likelihood of being in the deal as say the Pelicans, Suns or Denver does.
woj said yesterday that the knicks and rockets feel confident they have a 3 team bit there is one player that neither wants and they are looking for a 4th team...
everyone assunes it is portland and leonard is the player no one wants
That's what I was saying. Seems like everyone is just assuming that's the case. I also wouldn't be surprised if that deal fell apart because of Leonard and they gained traction the past two days on a different trade (maybe involving the Pelicans). Just reading between the lines after I can remember who but some reporter wrote that it seemed like talks had stalled over the weekend and then picked up on Tuesday.
Shams CharaniaVerified account @ShamsCharania 2m2 minutes ago
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Sources: The San Antonio Spurs have renounced guard Jonathon Simmons, making him an unrestricted free agent.
they're getting Melo and shipping off Anderson, who has negative value of at least -2 #1 picks. Houston does not have enough assets to plug back into the equation to even get to net neutral value on the Anderson piece, let alone give a return for Melo, unless they are putting in Gordon and someone will pay significantly for him.
I'm hopeful that the trade is not actually Anderson based for this reason. Anderson and pieces for Melo is a gift to the Rockets.
tiny bit of leverage in these talks. If we arent getting back extra pieces like Qi or whatever then why make this deal. Just go to CLE and trade him for all expirings like Shump/Frye and move on. You can try to spin shump/frye during the year or whatever. It would be better then taking on crappy deals like Anderson or Leonard.
tiny bit of leverage in these talks. If we arent getting back extra pieces like Qi or whatever then why make this deal. Just go to CLE and trade him for all expirings like Shump/Frye and move on. You can try to spin shump/frye during the year or whatever. It would be better then taking on crappy deals like Anderson or Leonard.
or just tell Houston you want Ariza and Gordon and a pick. Or make it: Melo/Noah for Anderson/Ariza/Gordon. And when they say no just walk away. There's no need to make this trade in July.
but even if he is, Is he twice the salary commitment better?
I think he's probably worth twice as much. Simmons is vastly overrated. This happens all the time with role players on very good teams.
Simmons is not a good shooter at SG, which will cause problems if you try to lean on him for anything. THJR is a lot younger and can therefore be expected to see more improvement, and already wins the advanced stats battles over the last two seasons (THJR vs. JS):
PER: 14.2 vs 10.6
WS48: .106 vs .087
Net o/d rtg: +2 vs. -2
BPM: -.8 vs -1.5
VORP: .9 vs 0.3
THJR had to do it in a tougher situation. Especially last year when that Hawks team was really lacking a playmaker beyond Schroeder. Simmons has generally been more sheltered, having better teammates. On the plus side he held up well in the playoffs.
To me THJR is a class above Simmons. Simmons is 100% a bench guy, with only improbable upside to develop into a starter (or he could start on an overpowered team that can eat a good defensive SG in the lineup, but it would limit them). THJR is a budding starter, or a very good 6th man. One can quibble with 71 million for such a player, but he's better than Simmons.
Ramona ShelburneVerified account @ramonashelburne 6m6 minutes
The Lakers are signing Alex Caruso, their summer league sensation, to a two year deal. It'll be a two-way... http://www.espn.com/espn/now?nowId=21-0677197110369590955-4
RE: Is caldwell-pope a better player? He's the name a few
KCP turned down 80 million over 5 and got made a UFA. He signed a one year deal to try to get back to market next 7/1 as a UFA and get a max deal.
I'd rather have signed the KCP contract because I dont like the bargain we struck with THJR. They're getting the same $$ annually. I think they're players of similar value, but if I was building a team I'd have a preference for KCP. I think he's more of a sure thing because he can always hang his hat on his good D.
RE: RE: Is caldwell-pope a better player? He's the name a few
KCP turned down 80 million over 5 and got made a UFA. He signed a one year deal to try to get back to market next 7/1 as a UFA and get a max deal.
I'd rather have signed the KCP contract because I dont like the bargain we struck with THJR. They're getting the same $$ annually. I think they're players of similar value, but if I was building a team I'd have a preference for KCP. I think he's more of a sure thing because he can always hang his hat on his good D.
To be clear, I'm no fan of the THJ contract but a 1-yr deal for KCP makes little sense. If he plays well, he walks and cashes in on a big payday so for the one season you have him he could improve your win total and the Knicks are a team that is better served getting the highest pick possible. Wouldn't make much sense for them in my opinion but there's certainly a devil's advocate argument one can make.
If we're talking equal years/dollars, I think Hardaway is a better fit next to Frank. Frank will hopefully be a very good defensive player which can mask Hardaway's deficiencies but since it's unlikely he's a guy that can easily create his own shot, putting him next to KCP makes little sense since they share that attribute or lack thereof. Hardaway on the other hand is a threat to score anywhere on the floor and can create his own shot which should open things up for the offense and fit nicely next to Frank in 2 years.
Ramona ShelburneVerified account @ramonashelburne 6m6 minutes
The Lakers are signing Alex Caruso, their summer league sensation, to a two year deal. It'll be a two-way... http://www.espn.com/espn/now?nowId=21-0677197110369590955-4
KCP turned down 80 million over 5 and got made a UFA. He signed a one year deal to try to get back to market next 7/1 as a UFA and get a max deal.
I'd rather have signed the KCP contract because I dont like the bargain we struck with THJR. They're getting the same $$ annually. I think they're players of similar value, but if I was building a team I'd have a preference for KCP. I think he's more of a sure thing because he can always hang his hat on his good D.
To be clear, I'm no fan of the THJ contract but a 1-yr deal for KCP makes little sense. If he plays well, he walks and cashes in on a big payday so for the one season you have him he could improve your win total and the Knicks are a team that is better served getting the highest pick possible. Wouldn't make much sense for them in my opinion but there's certainly a devil's advocate argument one can make.
If we're talking equal years/dollars, I think Hardaway is a better fit next to Frank. Frank will hopefully be a very good defensive player which can mask Hardaway's deficiencies but since it's unlikely he's a guy that can easily create his own shot, putting him next to KCP makes little sense since they share that attribute or lack thereof. Hardaway on the other hand is a threat to score anywhere on the floor and can create his own shot which should open things up for the offense and fit nicely next to Frank in 2 years.
Lakers' plan is to keep the cap space next year in tact. I like the one year deal for KCP, and he'll have a chance to cash in next year with someone else. I think he's a great fit with Lonzo in the back court. This is the first time in a while that I've been optimistic about this season. Lonzo looked like the truth last night.
The Knicks have paused Carmelo Anthony trade talks with Houston and Cleveland, according to ESPN.com.
This probably has a lot to do with the Knicks hiring Scott Perry to be their new general manager. The Knicks aren't really in a rush to get a deal done anyway, especially since the Rockets and Cavs aren't oozing with young talent or draft picks.
Lakers' plan is to keep the cap space next year in tact. I like the one year deal for KCP, and he'll have a chance to cash in next year with someone else. I think he's a great fit with Lonzo in the back court. This is the first time in a while that I've been optimistic about this season. Lonzo looked like the truth last night.
He should make them better, which will paradoxically make them a better UFA draw, even if the UFA displaces him. Basically, my working theory is that UFAs are not very imaginative (or willing to go on hope), and are more interested in going to a team that won the year before rather than projecting how good a team will be once they join.
Hahaha
Frank Isola @FisolaNDYN
It's official: Melo to Houston, Harkless and a FRP to NY, Anderson and a SRP to Portland.
Link - ( New Window )
via B/R twitter - ( New Window )
Frank Isola @FisolaNDYN
It's official: Melo to Houston, Harkless and a FRP to NY, Anderson and a SRP to Portland. Link - ( New Window )
Cmon son. Didn't you say you went to Princeton?
NYK gets- Harkless and Leonard
Portland gets- Andersen
Houston gets- Melo
If this is the framework, I really hope the Knicks get 1st round picks from Houston and Portland along with Qi and Swanigan. Even if it means the Knicks taking back Turner in some combo instead. Just maximize the picks/ young players the Knicks get in return.
And Portland should be paying to turn Leonard/ Harkless into Andersen.
I saw the post on r/NBA and the tweet had his picture, his name, and only transposed the two inside letters of NYDN.
If I"m Frank, I would try to find a way to press charges and sue this troll.
I literally laughed out loud at that one.
He has a picture on instagram with KOQ (it's 6 days old however).
Leaves out the part about them not being any good and overpaid for the next 3 years.
LOL!
Qi and Swanigan can't be traded until August right? Ideally the Knicks bring back a 1st rounder and one of those guys.
Hardaway
Harkless
Porzingis
Hernangomez
If Leonard comes to the Knicks I will be extremely disappointed. That's a rough contract
Noah: 19.3 million
THJR: 18.2 million
Lee: 12.8 million
Leonard: 11.3 million
Harkless: 11 million
Thomas: 7.6 million
Total: 80 fucking million dollars
Not next season, not the following season, but three seasons from now for a pu pu platter. But for Frank becoming Giannis 2.0, we will be absolutely terrible. And KP will seriously consider leaving. You simply cannot take on Leonard and Harkless without significant futures coming back.
This trade really doesnt make any sense if it is Melo going to Houston, Houston shedding Anderson (negative value), and Houston not really adding anything. That's just a giveaway to Houston. Oh, and it gets us into WORSE cap shape?
Im already sick of the Mills era.
Fucking nonsense if our return is effectively those two POR players.
Im already sick of the Mills era.
On a normal NBA team, you could spin in that all those contracts are coming off the books at the same time ( THJ with a PO). But it's the Knicks so you are 100% right. They are allergic to any cap space or cap flexibility. It's maddening.
The 3 team trade with Milwaukee that Bill Simmons tweeted out would be much preferred. I have zero interest in Harkless or Leonard.
Also, we could stretch Noah pretty easily if we wanted more cap room.
Also, we could stretch Noah pretty easily if we wanted more cap room.
No, we cant stretch Noah pretty easily. We can stretch him very, very painfully.
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probably not much, but it seems like the Knicks reluctance to take back Leonard is the hold up here.
Also, we could stretch Noah pretty easily if we wanted more cap room.
No, we cant stretch Noah pretty easily. We can stretch him very, very painfully.
Correct me if I'm wrong, but we could stretch his cap hit to about 4M per for the next 5 years. Apparently that's the going rate for Ron Baker.
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In comment 13526694 Jon in NYC said:
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probably not much, but it seems like the Knicks reluctance to take back Leonard is the hold up here.
Also, we could stretch Noah pretty easily if we wanted more cap room.
No, we cant stretch Noah pretty easily. We can stretch him very, very painfully.
Correct me if I'm wrong, but we could stretch his cap hit to about 4M per for the next 5 years. Apparently that's the going rate for Ron Baker.
You dont get a cap savings. You pay the full amount, over the remaining seasons x2, plus 1 (there is a little variation based on whether it is before or after 9/1 each season).
If we stretch Noah right now, we'd owe him 55,590,500. Our cap would take a hit of 7,941,500 each year for the next 7 seasons.
Even if you were right, 4 million a year for 5 seasons isnt easy. It's a substantial waste of cap space. We shouldnt measure the value of cap space based on the stupid overpay of Ron Baker.
This is all so frustrating. We continue to be so poorly run. We literally have no idea how to manage the cap.
I also heard that Harden was recruiting Melo at some fashion show in Paris last month. The NBA is nuts.
Also says that the Pelicans are looking to get in on the deal, but doesnt really say for what.
Also says that the Pelicans are looking to get in on the deal, but doesnt really say for what.
Somehow the Knicks ridiculous desperation to trade Melo has turned from maybe a chance to get back an asset or two to the whole league wondering if they can dump their bad contracts on the Knicks.
The Asik era is here!
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In comment 13526697 Deej said:
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In comment 13526694 Jon in NYC said:
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probably not much, but it seems like the Knicks reluctance to take back Leonard is the hold up here.
Also, we could stretch Noah pretty easily if we wanted more cap room.
No, we cant stretch Noah pretty easily. We can stretch him very, very painfully.
Correct me if I'm wrong, but we could stretch his cap hit to about 4M per for the next 5 years. Apparently that's the going rate for Ron Baker.
You dont get a cap savings. You pay the full amount, over the remaining seasons x2, plus 1 (there is a little variation based on whether it is before or after 9/1 each season).
If we stretch Noah right now, we'd owe him 55,590,500. Our cap would take a hit of 7,941,500 each year for the next 7 seasons.
Even if you were right, 4 million a year for 5 seasons isnt easy. It's a substantial waste of cap space. We shouldnt measure the value of cap space based on the stupid overpay of Ron Baker.
This is all so frustrating. We continue to be so poorly run. We literally have no idea how to manage the cap.
You do get cap savings in the year that he is stretched. I.E. if we waited until 2019, his remaining 19 mil would be spread over 3 years, so we would get about 13M to spend that offseason.
I also assumed you got that the Ron Baker comment was tongue in cheek.
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Buzz from today in Vegas is Houston might have their Carmelo deal - would be a 4 team deal. Unclear the pieces, but some chatter for sure
10 replies 49 retweets 31 likes
It's not like the NHL, where you cut a guy and then pay 2/3 of the cap hit over an increased # of seasons. We're stuck with the full $$ on the Noah contract and stretching just slices it differently.
I wish Mills would just come out and say "We plan on staying as young and cheap as we can until 2020, when we'll have tons of cap space, and our only contracts will be 28 year old Hardaway, 24 year old KP, 25 year old Willy, 22 year old Frank and 21 year old Doncic."
But they're just going to keep overpaying average players, and our opportunity to make a real splash will go by the wayside.
It's not like the NHL, where you cut a guy and then pay 2/3 of the cap hit over an increased # of seasons. We're stuck with the full $$ on the Noah contract and stretching just slices it differently.
I think we're saying the same thing. My only point is if we had a real need for another 13M in 2019, it could be done via one transaction that the Knicks have control over.
I wish Mills would just come out and say "We plan on staying as young and cheap as we can until 2020, when we'll have tons of cap space, and our only contracts will be 28 year old Hardaway, 24 year old KP, 25 year old Willy, 22 year old Frank and 21 year old Doncic."
But they're just going to keep overpaying average players, and our opportunity to make a real splash will go by the wayside.
They're just accumulating random guys under 25 without significant regard for the cap. It's the cap mismanagement that's killing me. They have no sophistication on the cap. They dont realize that you have to carefully dole out long term money, or that you can weaponize the cap to accelerate the rebuild.
Honestly, how did we not undercut the Nets on the Carroll trade? I bet we could have done it and Dolan & Co. were still scared of the Rap's GM.
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Buzz from today in Vegas is Houston might have their Carmelo deal - would be a 4 team deal. Unclear the pieces, but some chatter for sure
10 replies 49 retweets 31 likes
steve kyler doesnt know shut, yesterday he said talks were going nowhere
I wish Mills would just come out and say "We plan on staying as young and cheap as we can until 2020, when we'll have tons of cap space, and our only contracts will be 28 year old Hardaway, 24 year old KP, 25 year old Willy, 22 year old Frank and 21 year old Doncic."
But they're just going to keep overpaying average players, and our opportunity to make a real splash will go by the wayside.
How do we know this isn't the plan? Mills already outright said they are looking to make the roster younger and more athletic. Let's wait and see what the return on the Melo trade is before we get ahead of ourselves and say the plan is anything other than staying "young and cheap until 2020."
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part is that there's no real plan in place.
I wish Mills would just come out and say "We plan on staying as young and cheap as we can until 2020, when we'll have tons of cap space, and our only contracts will be 28 year old Hardaway, 24 year old KP, 25 year old Willy, 22 year old Frank and 21 year old Doncic."
But they're just going to keep overpaying average players, and our opportunity to make a real splash will go by the wayside.
How do we know this isn't the plan? Mills already outright said they are looking to make the roster younger and more athletic. Let's wait and see what the return on the Melo trade is before we get ahead of ourselves and say the plan is anything other than staying "young and cheap until 2020."
I hope you're right. That is what we should be doing.
I just don't trust this FO to make the right decisions.
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In comment 13526730 Jon in NYC said:
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part is that there's no real plan in place.
I wish Mills would just come out and say "We plan on staying as young and cheap as we can until 2020, when we'll have tons of cap space, and our only contracts will be 28 year old Hardaway, 24 year old KP, 25 year old Willy, 22 year old Frank and 21 year old Doncic."
But they're just going to keep overpaying average players, and our opportunity to make a real splash will go by the wayside.
How do we know this isn't the plan? Mills already outright said they are looking to make the roster younger and more athletic. Let's wait and see what the return on the Melo trade is before we get ahead of ourselves and say the plan is anything other than staying "young and cheap until 2020."
I hope you're right. That is what we should be doing.
I just don't trust this FO to make the right decisions.
After we bring on Evan Turner, Meyers Leonard, or some other equally shitty contract in this deal then I'll be shitting on Mills right there along with you.
New Orleans would be giving up 2 1st round picks for Lee and Ryno and to dump the awful contracts of Asik/ Moore/ Hill. Their GM is on the hot seat and they need to win this year in order to keep Cousins.
I know this is beyond wishful thinking, but getting 3 future 1sts for Lee and Melo would be fantastic. And honestly it makes a lot of sense for all 3 teams.
What do you guys think?
Trade Machine - ( New Window )
New Orleans would be giving up 2 1st round picks for Lee and Ryno and to dump the awful contracts of Asik/ Moore/ Hill. Their GM is on the hot seat and they need to win this year in order to keep Cousins.
I know this is beyond wishful thinking, but getting 3 future 1sts for Lee and Melo would be fantastic. And honestly it makes a lot of sense for all 3 teams.
What do you guys think? Trade Machine - ( New Window )
Why would the Knicks do this?
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If the Pelicans are interested in getting involved as reported by Berman, I would be trying to take on their bad contracts to get picks. I would also include Lee to sweeten the pot. See the link for the trade. Pelicans would have to send back back 2 future 1sts and the rockets would include a future 1st.
New Orleans would be giving up 2 1st round picks for Lee and Ryno and to dump the awful contracts of Asik/ Moore/ Hill. Their GM is on the hot seat and they need to win this year in order to keep Cousins.
I know this is beyond wishful thinking, but getting 3 future 1sts for Lee and Melo would be fantastic. And honestly it makes a lot of sense for all 3 teams.
What do you guys think? Trade Machine - ( New Window )
Why would the Knicks do this?
2 future 1st round picks from New Orleans and 1 future 1st round pick from Houston.
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In comment 13526752 TyreeHelmet said:
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If the Pelicans are interested in getting involved as reported by Berman, I would be trying to take on their bad contracts to get picks. I would also include Lee to sweeten the pot. See the link for the trade. Pelicans would have to send back back 2 future 1sts and the rockets would include a future 1st.
New Orleans would be giving up 2 1st round picks for Lee and Ryno and to dump the awful contracts of Asik/ Moore/ Hill. Their GM is on the hot seat and they need to win this year in order to keep Cousins.
I know this is beyond wishful thinking, but getting 3 future 1sts for Lee and Melo would be fantastic. And honestly it makes a lot of sense for all 3 teams.
What do you guys think? Trade Machine - ( New Window )
Why would the Knicks do this?
2 future 1st round picks from New Orleans and 1 future 1st round pick from Houston.
And they take on three brutal contracts.
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In comment 13526754 Jon in NYC said:
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In comment 13526752 TyreeHelmet said:
Quote:
If the Pelicans are interested in getting involved as reported by Berman, I would be trying to take on their bad contracts to get picks. I would also include Lee to sweeten the pot. See the link for the trade. Pelicans would have to send back back 2 future 1sts and the rockets would include a future 1st.
New Orleans would be giving up 2 1st round picks for Lee and Ryno and to dump the awful contracts of Asik/ Moore/ Hill. Their GM is on the hot seat and they need to win this year in order to keep Cousins.
I know this is beyond wishful thinking, but getting 3 future 1sts for Lee and Melo would be fantastic. And honestly it makes a lot of sense for all 3 teams.
What do you guys think? Trade Machine - ( New Window )
Why would the Knicks do this?
2 future 1st round picks from New Orleans and 1 future 1st round pick from Houston.
And they take on three brutal contracts.
Carroll is better than all 3 and just returned a 1 and a 2 for his remaining 30 million. Carroll is still a decent player -- would make the rotation of very good teams. LA had to attach Russell to be rid of Moz, and I think Russell would have returned 4 or 5 overall value in this draft, straight up.
These guys suck. Taking on their remaining 90-100 million should return 5 or 6 #1s IMO unless maybe you have really good cause to believe some of the picks will be high.
It's almost like people think you should get LESS for taking back a ton of bad contracts. Nuts.
That's the whole point of my proposed trade. If Melo is going to the Rockets, they are taking back major contracts. Outside of finding some magical expiring 25million dollar contract, theres no other options. I would rather than maximize their picks by just absorbing these bad contracts.
The Rockets get Melo and dump Ryno for one 1st round pick. The Pels turn their garbage contracts and players into two good players that help them. And the Knicks get 3 future 1sts instead of some package of Harkless/ Leonard or whatever else is out there. Give me the picks.
you have to be able to walk and chew gum at the same time. You dont get credit for getting younger if you lay waste to the salary cap in the process.
I get why people want to look for the silver lining, but it is what it is.
Well the THJR deal was an overpay. And the Baker deal was an overpay. Both also got options, meaning they get to rob us of the upside.
If you overpay on every deal you're screwed. Also he was part of the front office that made the last round of bad moves. We've seen no evidence that Phil made those moves over Mills' objection.
Knicks are grossly overpaying. There is no explaining the Baker contract. THJR got an offer ATL didnt even consider matching.
And increasingly ok to good teams can bargain shop in the NBA.
And you know what? The Knicks arent going to be good next year. We dont need to be overpaying to get a little bit better. I was okay with the THJR deal, but not if it's gonna be a pattern.
Nothing crazy in here.
Link - ( New Window )
I don't think they should make no moves.
They should make smart moves.
Now they can't make ANY moves because they don't have any cap flexibility.
Free agent forward Shabazz Muhammad is receiving interest from the Hawks, Nets, Bucks and Knicks, a source says.
@MarcJSpearsESPN
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Free agent forward Shabazz Muhammad is receiving interest from the Hawks, Nets, Bucks and Knicks, a source says.
Hard pass.
Hard pass.
give him 3 yrs/$45m with a 4th year player option!
- Mills
Quote:
is trash.
Hard pass.
give him 3 yrs/$45m with a 4th year player option!
- Mills
Hahaha.
Noah: 19.3 million
THJR: 18.2 million
Lee: 12.8 million
Leonard: 11.3 million
Harkless: 11 million
Thomas: 7.6 million
Total: 80 fucking million dollars
Not next season, not the following season, but three seasons from now for a pu pu platter. But for Frank becoming Giannis 2.0, we will be absolutely terrible. And KP will seriously consider leaving. You simply cannot take on Leonard and Harkless without significant futures coming back.
This trade really doesnt make any sense if it is Melo going to Houston, Houston shedding Anderson (negative value), and Houston not really adding anything. That's just a giveaway to Houston. Oh, and it gets us into WORSE cap shape?
This would make me want to cry if it weren't so damn Knicksian.
Thanks god there are other teams and storylines I can enjoy.
Phils biggest mistake was not trading rose for Rubio
Rubio would be perfect here.
You're probably wrong. Few teams have cap room left.
Shabazz!!
knowing isola he posted that hoping the knicks and rockets cant get a deal done amd then he can say mills screwed it up...
Trey Rodriguez
@TreyRodriguezNY
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Replying to @TreyRodriguezNY @HoopsInq
Moe Harkless, among other assets, is headed to New York, as part of the multiple-team trade sending Carmelo Anthony to Houston. #Knicks
Also knicks have inquired about Bledsoe and Ramon Sessions. Not really interested in either one. Although as long as we didnt trade a future first for bledsoe id be fine with it. Of course i dont see how we get him without including a first which is why my interest is low on him.
Said the the second the sixers passed on ball. The lakers stepped in shit once again. Ball is the best pg in the draft. Probably the best player. People over thought this one.
Also knicks have inquired about Bledsoe and Ramon Sessions. Not really interested in either one. Although as long as we didnt trade a future first for bledsoe id be fine with it. Of course i dont see how we get him without including a first which is why my interest is low on him.
i wonder if knicks will flip assets with lee to phoenix for bledsoe? has to be hornacek pushing for bledsoe...
OK, that's my thought as well. Guy avg 21 & 7 last year. We don't have anything that gets him.
Carroll is better than all 3 and just returned a 1 and a 2 for his remaining 30 million. Carroll is still a decent player -- would make the rotation of very good teams. LA had to attach Russell to be rid of Moz, and I think Russell would have returned 4 or 5 overall value in this draft, straight up.
These guys suck. Taking on their remaining 90-100 million should return 5 or 6 #1s IMO unless maybe you have really good cause to believe some of the picks will be high.
It's almost like people think you should get LESS for taking back a ton of bad contracts. Nuts. [/quote]
Major difference is that New Orleans is taking back the same amount of money in the trade. It's not a salary dump, it's just getting better players.
You are gambling on things blowing up in New Orleans with Cousins leaving and even possibly Davis leaving down the line. It's an outside the box trade but the reward outweighs the risk. The Knicks are already going to be capped out the next 3 years. Why not get 3 future 1sts in return?
Mills would never do this trade but I sure wish he would.
He misses a lot of games.
81
40
76
43
81
31
66
He will be 28 early next basketball season. The chances of that issue improving with age are slim.
KP
Willy
Frank
1st round picks
they have NOTHING else of value for Eric Bledsoe. This isn't like other sports where there is a minor league system and "prospects". Bledsoe has a below market deal (2 years 14.5 per season). What are you giving up? They have nothing.
KP
Willy
Frank
1st round picks
they have NOTHING else of value for Eric Bledsoe. This isn't like other sports where there is a minor league system and "prospects". Bledsoe has a below market deal (2 years 14.5 per season). What are you giving up? They have nothing.
i was saying if they really do get harkless and "assets" maybr the plan is to flip those assets with lee for bledsoe...
if they do not get anything otger than harkless then you are not getting bledsoe
Quote:
not a swipe at anyone here but I often see stuff like "they can try".... what are they trying with? The Knicks best assets are
KP
Willy
Frank
1st round picks
they have NOTHING else of value for Eric Bledsoe. This isn't like other sports where there is a minor league system and "prospects". Bledsoe has a below market deal (2 years 14.5 per season). What are you giving up? They have nothing.
i was saying if they really do get harkless and "assets" maybr the plan is to flip those assets with lee for bledsoe...
if they do not get anything otger than harkless then you are not getting bledsoe
The Blazers aren't taking Ryan Anderson and also giving up Harkless and a 1st, that would be ridiculous and the Rockets don't have a first until 2019 and their pick figures to be awful. That's the best the Suns can do for Eric Bledsoe? Seems far fetched.
He and Frank could play together some, too, with Frank off the ball.
And going after Bledsoe is such a Knicks move it hurts. Nice player but not for the Knicks. It would take future picks to have a shot at him which would be idiotic for the Knicks to do.
Team Africa, comprised of players born in Africa and second-generation African players, will be led by team captains Luol Deng (Los Angeles Lakers; South Sudan) and Thabo Sefolosha (most recently with the Atlanta Hawks; Switzerland; South African parent).
Download and log into the new Kwes App and watch Live NBA action for free at the click of a button. Download the Android app at Google Play, or the iOS version at the App Store!
Deng and Sefolosha will be joined by Bismack Biyombo (Orlando Magic; Democratic Republic of Congo), Clint Capela (Houston Rockets; Switzerland; parents from Angola and Congo), Gorgui Dieng (Minnesota Timberwolves; Senegal), Joel Embiid (Philadelphia 76ers; Cameroon), Serge Ibaka (Toronto Raptors; Congo), Luc Mbah a Moute (most recently with the LA Clippers; Cameroon), Salah Mejri (Dallas Mavericks; Tunisia), Emmanuel Mudiay (Denver Nuggets; DRC), Victor Oladipo (Indiana Pacers; US.; Nigerian parent) and Dennis Schroder (Atlanta Hawks; Germany; Gambian parent).
Quote:
is on Team Africa?
Team Africa, comprised of players born in Africa and second-generation African players, will be led by team captains Luol Deng (Los Angeles Lakers; South Sudan) and Thabo Sefolosha (most recently with the Atlanta Hawks; Switzerland; South African parent).
Download and log into the new Kwes App and watch Live NBA action for free at the click of a button. Download the Android app at Google Play, or the iOS version at the App Store!
Deng and Sefolosha will be joined by Bismack Biyombo (Orlando Magic; Democratic Republic of Congo), Clint Capela (Houston Rockets; Switzerland; parents from Angola and Congo), Gorgui Dieng (Minnesota Timberwolves; Senegal), Joel Embiid (Philadelphia 76ers; Cameroon), Serge Ibaka (Toronto Raptors; Congo), Luc Mbah a Moute (most recently with the LA Clippers; Cameroon), Salah Mejri (Dallas Mavericks; Tunisia), Emmanuel Mudiay (Denver Nuggets; DRC), Victor Oladipo (Indiana Pacers; US.; Nigerian parent) and Dennis Schroder (Atlanta Hawks; Germany; Gambian parent).
Thanks. Should be a fun game. Lot of good bigs.
-It's pretty toxic
Hes probably one of the worst under-30 players in the NBA not on a rookie or minimum deal.
Harkless for Anderson straight up is questionable, but dumping Leonard along with it makes it better.
-Meyers Leonard is our Dirk Nowitzki...only he's terrible and not German
-But we would really like Leonard to go.
Salaries dont have to match for NY, as they have lots of room. Harkless, Leonard and Ariza are probably all headed to NY.
-Eh
Overall I dont "believe" the trade Leonard cant play next to; or replace, Porzingod. No way NYK really wants a piece of him. Harkless, on the other hand, is a better fit and slots into Melos place (badly, but they play the same position).
-We might have to give one more piece or picks to make this happen but also love the idea of finally splitting with Leonard. Were over that experiment time to move on.
Is Wilson Chandler 2nd generation immigrant? Guy has a name so WASPy it sounds like a law firm.
Is Wilson Chandler 2nd generation immigrant? Guy has a name so WASPy it sounds like a law firm.
They are on team world.
And going after Bledsoe is such a Knicks move it hurts. Nice player but not for the Knicks. It would take future picks to have a shot at him which would be idiotic for the Knicks to do.
I think we will be disappointed in the return, but I reject the concept that we're somehow having it both ways. We're trading a star player. Queue the Melo haters. But the guy can volume score with no help, and is maintaining his career eFG. The only reason we're gonna get squat is that we're very, very poorly run. We are the player at the table that everyone else (Melo included) knows they can take advantage of.
If the return for Melo is ho hum futures and Harkless, a well run team would pass. It wouldnt fall into some trap of believing that you have to trade Melo now and move on. It would stop trading guys at the nadir of their value, stop acquiring guys well past their peak, and stop signing free agents to overpays.
I really don't think Harkless is worth taking on Leonard. Would have to be picks included to make it worth it. He's really not any good and not on a good contract.
This only really seems to make sense for HOU, which is getting Melo for a negative value Anderson and some not very impressive assets (because they really dont have futures to trade).
we should start a running list of all the players who got less money than Baker.
woj said yesterday that the knicks and rockets feel confident they have a 3 team bit there is one player that neither wants and they are looking for a 4th team...
everyone assunes it is portland and leonard is the player no one wants
There is a possible 4 way deal that involves Portland and New Orleans, if each team is willing to take a risk.
Suppose the Knicks send Melo to Houston and Lee to Portland.
Portland sends Harkless, Ezeli, Davis and Vonleh to the Knicks with a 1st rounder.
Houston sends Anderson and Gordon to N.O. and Ariza to the Knicks.
New Orleans sends Cousins to Houston and Asik to Portland.
Obviously, some filler all around would be required to make salaries match.
For Houston, it would be a massive gamble that Melo, Cousins, Paul and Harden can co-exist- but on paper, that is a team that could legitimately contend in the West- while still having a decent bench.
For the Knicks, outside of a 1st rounder, they aren't getting much- if any- in player value for Melo or Lee. However, they would get a fistful of expiring deals and some cap relief.
For New Orleans, they aren't getting much of a return on Cousins- but they might have trouble signing him in FA anyway. They would add two outside scorers would could better space the floor for Davis and give Holiday options to distribute. They would not be a contender, but might be more balanced and competitive in the West.
Portland gets not very much talent for what amounts to 4 bench players- but they would get some minor cap relief. They could extend the cap relief even more if they could slide say, Leonard for Moore from N.O. It would also allow them to market CJ McCollum for some real 3-4 spot talent.
It isn't a perfect trade for any of the teams, and all would assume some degree of risk, with only Houston having obvious upside. However, each team has holes and issues- and this at least tries to address those issues for all.
I get the idea. But the Knicks need to tank. And after all of the shit that has gone on. The Knicks and melo need this relationship to end. He has to be gone come training camp
This is a chance to start fresh and grow some chemistry between young guys
(Frank,thj,porz,Gomez). Also to build what hornacek wants in place.
If you keep melo you just keep the media on top of the trade rumors and keep the ball stopper who doesn't help develop anyone. Add in that melo will hurt the ability to tank by having his nights of 35 points and it's just not smart to keep him
"Leonard is absolutely awful. Low IQ, great body, that's about it"
I can't claim I've watched him enough to comment on his IQ but when I've seen him play he looks jacked but that's all you notice. He sucks. Please no.
POR or HOU or whoever would have to be throwing a couple more assets are way for me to take on Leonard.
Quote:
sources say that Portland is even in the deal other than Jsports a week ago but he also said yesterday he doesn't know if that's the current framework. It seems like he said that and then all the Tommy Dee's of the world started to throw Portland in there and guess that it's close or done to claim credit and now it has become assumed that Portland is in there. They makes sense as a third time but I don't think they have any higher likelihood of being in the deal as say the Pelicans, Suns or Denver does.
woj said yesterday that the knicks and rockets feel confident they have a 3 team bit there is one player that neither wants and they are looking for a 4th team...
everyone assunes it is portland and leonard is the player no one wants
That's what I was saying. Seems like everyone is just assuming that's the case. I also wouldn't be surprised if that deal fell apart because of Leonard and they gained traction the past two days on a different trade (maybe involving the Pelicans). Just reading between the lines after I can remember who but some reporter wrote that it seemed like talks had stalled over the weekend and then picked up on Tuesday.
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Sources: The San Antonio Spurs have renounced guard Jonathon Simmons, making him an unrestricted free agent.
Glad we have no money left.
I'm hopeful that the trade is not actually Anderson based for this reason. Anderson and pieces for Melo is a gift to the Rockets.
THJR is a better player.
or just tell Houston you want Ariza and Gordon and a pick. Or make it: Melo/Noah for Anderson/Ariza/Gordon. And when they say no just walk away. There's no need to make this trade in July.
I think he's probably worth twice as much. Simmons is vastly overrated. This happens all the time with role players on very good teams.
Simmons is not a good shooter at SG, which will cause problems if you try to lean on him for anything. THJR is a lot younger and can therefore be expected to see more improvement, and already wins the advanced stats battles over the last two seasons (THJR vs. JS):
PER: 14.2 vs 10.6
WS48: .106 vs .087
Net o/d rtg: +2 vs. -2
BPM: -.8 vs -1.5
VORP: .9 vs 0.3
THJR had to do it in a tougher situation. Especially last year when that Hawks team was really lacking a playmaker beyond Schroeder. Simmons has generally been more sheltered, having better teammates. On the plus side he held up well in the playoffs.
To me THJR is a class above Simmons. Simmons is 100% a bench guy, with only improbable upside to develop into a starter (or he could start on an overpowered team that can eat a good defensive SG in the lineup, but it would limit them). THJR is a budding starter, or a very good 6th man. One can quibble with 71 million for such a player, but he's better than Simmons.
agree as a SG you cannot sacrifice the consistent shooting
The Lakers are signing Alex Caruso, their summer league sensation, to a two year deal. It'll be a two-way... http://www.espn.com/espn/now?nowId=21-0677197110369590955-4
He's a considerably worse scorer and a marginally better defender. All things equal I think I'd rather have THJR
KCP turned down 80 million over 5 and got made a UFA. He signed a one year deal to try to get back to market next 7/1 as a UFA and get a max deal.
I'd rather have signed the KCP contract because I dont like the bargain we struck with THJR. They're getting the same $$ annually. I think they're players of similar value, but if I was building a team I'd have a preference for KCP. I think he's more of a sure thing because he can always hang his hat on his good D.
Quote:
People have said they should have waited for.
KCP turned down 80 million over 5 and got made a UFA. He signed a one year deal to try to get back to market next 7/1 as a UFA and get a max deal.
I'd rather have signed the KCP contract because I dont like the bargain we struck with THJR. They're getting the same $$ annually. I think they're players of similar value, but if I was building a team I'd have a preference for KCP. I think he's more of a sure thing because he can always hang his hat on his good D.
To be clear, I'm no fan of the THJ contract but a 1-yr deal for KCP makes little sense. If he plays well, he walks and cashes in on a big payday so for the one season you have him he could improve your win total and the Knicks are a team that is better served getting the highest pick possible. Wouldn't make much sense for them in my opinion but there's certainly a devil's advocate argument one can make.
If we're talking equal years/dollars, I think Hardaway is a better fit next to Frank. Frank will hopefully be a very good defensive player which can mask Hardaway's deficiencies but since it's unlikely he's a guy that can easily create his own shot, putting him next to KCP makes little sense since they share that attribute or lack thereof. Hardaway on the other hand is a threat to score anywhere on the floor and can create his own shot which should open things up for the offense and fit nicely next to Frank in 2 years.
The Lakers are signing Alex Caruso, their summer league sensation, to a two year deal. It'll be a two-way... http://www.espn.com/espn/now?nowId=21-0677197110369590955-4
Boooooooooooooooooooooo
Quote:
In comment 13527243 Ten Ton Hammer said:
Quote:
People have said they should have waited for.
KCP turned down 80 million over 5 and got made a UFA. He signed a one year deal to try to get back to market next 7/1 as a UFA and get a max deal.
I'd rather have signed the KCP contract because I dont like the bargain we struck with THJR. They're getting the same $$ annually. I think they're players of similar value, but if I was building a team I'd have a preference for KCP. I think he's more of a sure thing because he can always hang his hat on his good D.
To be clear, I'm no fan of the THJ contract but a 1-yr deal for KCP makes little sense. If he plays well, he walks and cashes in on a big payday so for the one season you have him he could improve your win total and the Knicks are a team that is better served getting the highest pick possible. Wouldn't make much sense for them in my opinion but there's certainly a devil's advocate argument one can make.
If we're talking equal years/dollars, I think Hardaway is a better fit next to Frank. Frank will hopefully be a very good defensive player which can mask Hardaway's deficiencies but since it's unlikely he's a guy that can easily create his own shot, putting him next to KCP makes little sense since they share that attribute or lack thereof. Hardaway on the other hand is a threat to score anywhere on the floor and can create his own shot which should open things up for the offense and fit nicely next to Frank in 2 years.
Lakers' plan is to keep the cap space next year in tact. I like the one year deal for KCP, and he'll have a chance to cash in next year with someone else. I think he's a great fit with Lonzo in the back court. This is the first time in a while that I've been optimistic about this season. Lonzo looked like the truth last night.
This probably has a lot to do with the Knicks hiring Scott Perry to be their new general manager. The Knicks aren't really in a rush to get a deal done anyway, especially since the Rockets and Cavs aren't oozing with young talent or draft picks.
Not like we were getting some haul in return.
Lakers' plan is to keep the cap space next year in tact. I like the one year deal for KCP, and he'll have a chance to cash in next year with someone else. I think he's a great fit with Lonzo in the back court. This is the first time in a while that I've been optimistic about this season. Lonzo looked like the truth last night.
He should make them better, which will paradoxically make them a better UFA draw, even if the UFA displaces him. Basically, my working theory is that UFAs are not very imaginative (or willing to go on hope), and are more interested in going to a team that won the year before rather than projecting how good a team will be once they join.