I know the pacing will once again be sped up, but I hope we get at least 1 more traveling scene with the Brothers Without Banners.
Beric, Thoros, and The Hound have great chemistry together. You have the serious, determined leader; the drunken, partier zealot; and the brooding cynic. All you need is a tech-savy warrior (blacksmith Gendry??) and they are basically the Ninja Turtles.
The Arya witnesses are going to just go back to their every day lives like nothing happened. Lol. She literally kept them alive and said "tell people what happened here!". If nothing comes of it, it would actually be sloppy writing IMO.
What do you think should come of it?
Quote:
"When people asked you what happened here. Tell them, the North remembers. Tell them, Winter came for House Frey."
Think I have explained that many times throughout the thread but I think word is going to get out that A.) She's alive and B.) She did it.
She ripped off her mask, revealed who she was, yelled the Stark phrase, and then told everyone to spread the news. Lol
It's just strange people think her identity will be hidden and nobody will ever find out she did anything IMO
To be fair. I doubt any of the serving girls, or Walder's young wife knew who Arya was or that there even was another Stark girl besides Sansa.
Cersie and everyone else in Kingslanding has thought Arya dead for a while now. Cersie will most likley think it was Jon and Sansa that orchestrated the massacre, or maybe the Brotherhood Without Banners, but I doubt Arya would even be in Cersie's mind.
Jon and Sansa may be a different story. I hope there is a scene where they try to figure out who planned, since all of the Northern lords are with them in Winterfell.
Think I have explained that many times throughout the thread but I think word is going to get out that A.) She's alive and B.) She did it.
She ripped off her mask, revealed who she was, yelled the Stark phrase, and then told everyone to spread the news. Lol
It's just strange people think her identity will be hidden and nobody will ever find out she did anything IMO
Nobody disputes that others will find out she's alive and that she murdered the Freys. They dispute that Euron will kill Arya as a gift to Cersei. Even if Cersei knows Arya is alive and responsible for the Freys' deaths, Arya is still probably relatively low on her wish list after:
Tyrion
Sand women
Sansa
probably some others I'm forgetting
Also, that's a lot of work to go through (the whole Arya arc) just for her to kill the Frey's before meeting her death. IMO, there's a bigger part for her to play in it all.
to the war with the White Walkers? I just think it would be a bit of a rout with 3 dragons breathing the very thing e army of the dead is so susceptible to. Maybe one makes it, maybe one ends up with the army of the dead to balance it out, but it just feels like it would become lopsided. I wouldn't be surprised to see one or all fall this season as Dany tries to take Westeros. Eoron's gift could be a dozen things, I just have a feeling he's going to use the horn to bring Visyrion and Rhaegal to heel. And if Cersei can't use them in battle, maybe she'll make a public display of emir execution.
As for Wun Wun...logistically it couldn't possibly be him. But they did make it a point to zero in on the giants eyes, with the same one that Ramsay shot out missing. Misleading but I'm sure we can chalk it up to sloppy writing. Unless of course there's more to be revealed that we don't know about.
I'm not sure how it all works since she fled Bravos, but it seems she still has access to the Great Hall of Faces or whatever it's called and can assume the identity of any dead person.
she can be killed, of course she can, and at any time, but I see her more of the one who seeks vengeance for Jon's and/or Sansa's death and is the surviving Stark (maybe Bran too).
the biggest "issue" I had with the opener the more I think about it (and I realize it's fiction and a fantasy story) is that Arya killed Walder Frey the end of season 6. So how long had passed between the end of season 6 and the beginning of season 7 where she buried the body so no one knew, acted as Walder Frey in his face, and called another feast and set up the "red wedding revenge"?
RE: Does anyone get the feeling the dragons won't make it
to the war with the White Walkers? I just think it would be a bit of a rout with 3 dragons breathing the very thing e army of the dead is so susceptible to. Maybe one makes it, maybe one ends up with the army of the dead to balance it out, but it just feels like it would become lopsided. I wouldn't be surprised to see one or all fall this season as Dany tries to take Westeros. Eoron's gift could be a dozen things, I just have a feeling he's going to use the horn to bring Visyrion and Rhaegal to heel. And if Cersei can't use them in battle, maybe she'll make a public display of emir execution.
As for Wun Wun...logistically it couldn't possibly be him. But they did make it a point to zero in on the giants eyes, with the same one that Ramsay shot out missing. Misleading but I'm sure we can chalk it up to sloppy writing. Unless of course there's more to be revealed that we don't know about.
If I had my way I'd rid the show of the dragons as soon as possible. Its a budget suck, they don't look all that great on screen and having them should be a fairly simple routing in an actual battle. I think the showrunners are married to them at this point but I hope atleast a couple of them die this season.
I believe the slaughter was right after she killed Walder last season. She said she invited them here tonight all for a second feast, assuming she killed Walder after the first one, and all the Frey's were there at thte time to celebrate taking over domain of Riverrun and their rise in power.
I also alluded to it earlier that I believe Euron will bring out the horn Dragonbinder and catch a Dragon or Two. That will be the gift and makes sense.
I'm not sure how it all works since she fled Bravos, but it seems she still has access to the Great Hall of Faces or whatever it's called and can assume the identity of any dead person.
she can be killed, of course she can, and at any time, but I see her more of the one who seeks vengeance for Jon's and/or Sansa's death and is the surviving Stark (maybe Bran too).
the biggest "issue" I had with the opener the more I think about it (and I realize it's fiction and a fantasy story) is that Arya killed Walder Frey the end of season 6. So how long had passed between the end of season 6 and the beginning of season 7 where she buried the body so no one knew, acted as Walder Frey in his face, and called another feast and set up the "red wedding revenge"?
I think the episode began essentially shortly after she killed Frey in the finale. Then the rest of the episode began after some more time had lapsed, word spread, and arya started making her way north. That's how it would make sense to me.
I'm not sure how it all works since she fled Bravos, but it seems she still has access to the Great Hall of Faces or whatever it's called and can assume the identity of any dead person.
she can be killed, of course she can, and at any time, but I see her more of the one who seeks vengeance for Jon's and/or Sansa's death and is the surviving Stark (maybe Bran too).
the biggest "issue" I had with the opener the more I think about it (and I realize it's fiction and a fantasy story) is that Arya killed Walder Frey the end of season 6. So how long had passed between the end of season 6 and the beginning of season 7 where she buried the body so no one knew, acted as Walder Frey in his face, and called another feast and set up the "red wedding revenge"?
I believe they say the two feasts (where she kills Walder and then the one where she is Walder) happened within a 'fortnight'.
I'm not sure how it all works since she fled Bravos, but it seems she still has access to the Great Hall of Faces or whatever it's called and can assume the identity of any dead person.
she can be killed, of course she can, and at any time, but I see her more of the one who seeks vengeance for Jon's and/or Sansa's death and is the surviving Stark (maybe Bran too).
the biggest "issue" I had with the opener the more I think about it (and I realize it's fiction and a fantasy story) is that Arya killed Walder Frey the end of season 6. So how long had passed between the end of season 6 and the beginning of season 7 where she buried the body so no one knew, acted as Walder Frey in his face, and called another feast and set up the "red wedding revenge"?
Wasn't it supposed to have been the same night? She said in her speech that everyone got to be called together twice in one day I thought. Might have to listen to it again but I assumed the real Frey was just laying in the back on the floor somewhere. I think time sped up a little after that scene because Jaime and Cersei had already heard in their next scene.
to the war with the White Walkers? I just think it would be a bit of a rout with 3 dragons breathing the very thing e army of the dead is so susceptible to. Maybe one makes it, maybe one ends up with the army of the dead to balance it out, but it just feels like it would become lopsided. I wouldn't be surprised to see one or all fall this season as Dany tries to take Westeros. Eoron's gift could be a dozen things, I just have a feeling he's going to use the horn to bring Visyrion and Rhaegal to heel. And if Cersei can't use them in battle, maybe she'll make a public display of emir execution.
As for Wun Wun...logistically it couldn't possibly be him. But they did make it a point to zero in on the giants eyes, with the same one that Ramsay shot out missing. Misleading but I'm sure we can chalk it up to sloppy writing. Unless of course there's more to be revealed that we don't know about.
I can definitely see Euron capturing/killing one in the next 2-3 episodes.
Also, aren't Jon and Dany the only two that can fully tame the dragons since all the other Targaryen's are dead? Seems to me they have 1 too many dragons right now...
RE: Does anyone get the feeling the dragons won't make it
to the war with the White Walkers? I just think it would be a bit of a rout with 3 dragons breathing the very thing e army of the dead is so susceptible to. Maybe one makes it, maybe one ends up with the army of the dead to balance it out, but it just feels like it would become lopsided. I wouldn't be surprised to see one or all fall this season as Dany tries to take Westeros. Eoron's gift could be a dozen things, I just have a feeling he's going to use the horn to bring Visyrion and Rhaegal to heel. And if Cersei can't use them in battle, maybe she'll make a public display of emir execution.
As for Wun Wun...logistically it couldn't possibly be him. But they did make it a point to zero in on the giants eyes, with the same one that Ramsay shot out missing. Misleading but I'm sure we can chalk it up to sloppy writing. Unless of course there's more to be revealed that we don't know about.
I think she'll probably lose one Dragon at some point before the "final battle." It would surprise me if she lost all three.
There has been some theorizing about the possibility of a Wight Dragon. Which would be pretty wild
We are assuming that marching army was still beyond the wall, but perhaps they were marching to Winterfell. I assume they would have burned Wun Wun and all the bodies, but who knows, perhaps the freefolk took him north to be buried.
We are assuming that marching army was still beyond the wall, but perhaps they were marching to Winterfell. I assume they would have burned Wun Wun and all the bodies, but who knows, perhaps the freefolk took him north to be buried.
Them bypassing the wall would be a huge plot point that they have to show, IMO. Not only that but they can't be past the wall yet unless the widlings that are now going to fortify the wall meet the wights in route.
I can think of several reasons the showrunners would have decided...
...to have Arya leave survivors. On the most basic level, her awesome, mic-drop exit line works better if there's somebody alive in the room to deliver it to. Also, she's still a beloved character, and very much Ned's daughter. Slaughtering innocents isn't her thing - in fact, it has always pissed her off, from the Butcher's boy through the doomed farmer and his daughter (early victims of the Hound) all the way through her training at the House of Black and White.
While Arya might be stretching things when she (as Walder) attributes the Red Wedding to every now-adult male Frey of consequence, she draws the line at punishing the girls, who have absolutely no say in anything at the Twins. Aside from Walder's young wife, the girls serving the wine might not even be family members.
Would it be "smarter" to kill them? Not necessarily. Consider the mystique of the Faceless Men: just showing one of their coins to a Braavosi captain was enough to book Arya's passage across the Narrow Sea. Arya might be bringing a bit of that assassin swagger back to Westeros. For houses in the Riverlands wavering in their loyalty to the crown, knowing that a single young wolf just wiped out all the Frey sheep could be a pretty persuasive recruiting tool.
Arya is also a big part of the girl-power ethos that the show has embraced lately. There's an element of sisterhood/empowerment in her "liberating" the women of House Frey - probably the least "woke" house in Westeros.
Will sparing the girls wind up costing Arya in the end? I doubt it. There are too many reasons for the show to have made that choice, other than to set up her downfall. And Arya puts herself in danger all the time. If the showrunners plan to kill her, they don't need serving girls from House Frey to put the Lannister army on her trail. She just told a platoon of them that she's on her way to the capitol to kill the queen.
Yeah I don't think sparing the girls lives end up costing her life...
I think her going to Kings Landing brimming with overconfidence ends up costing her life.
Ultimately, I think Arya is going to die. Throwing out that Euron intercepts her was just something I threw out as a means to make that happen. Realistically, I see her maybe going down in a ball of fury like Scarface and and maybe taking out the Mountain along the way. Who knows. Nobody knows much right now. We are all just throwing out guesses.
Maybe from a lately standpoint you mean Sansa's confidence or Lyanna Mormont or even Arya the assassin, but Martin always emphasized the strong women (and the things they'd make men do).
from Cersei, Catelyn/Lady Stoneheart, Oleanna, Melisandre, the Sand Snakes, Arya, Lysa, Daenerys, Brienne, Ygritte, even Sansa, Gilly, and Margaery, as well as Lyanna Mormont, etc.
Here. That writer seems to be picking up the same clues/uneasy feeling I'm getting. I just think she's going to go down in some bittersweet or tragic way.
Maybe from a lately standpoint you mean Sansa's confidence or Lyanna Mormont or even Arya the assassin, but Martin always emphasized the strong women (and the things they'd make men do).
from Cersei, Catelyn/Lady Stoneheart, Oleanna, Melisandre, the Sand Snakes, Arya, Lysa, Daenerys, Brienne, Ygritte, even Sansa, Gilly, and Margaery, as well as Lyanna Mormont, etc.
Yeah. Literally the whole world is ruled by women at the moment.
I feel the opposite about Yara. I think she is only around to die, forcing Theon's character to come full circle and take on the role of leader of the Iron Born and kill his uncle.
RE: She did kill every single Frey worth anything however
This sort of leaves a power vacuum in the Riverlands for Edmure to retake Riverrun with little opposition. KL can't really afford to send any troops up there to help with any more siege's. Especially with having to worry about Dany, the Reach and Dorne all at KL doorsteps. If anything Arya wanted to make clear that the North is still strong, and isn't to be fucked with, can't wait for the family reunion.
Excellent point about Arya's uncle Edmure. With all the Frey's taken out, that should now leave Edmure (who was married to one of Walter's daughters, as the only remaining heir to take over Riverrun.
Also, aren't Jon and Dany the only two that can fully tame the dragons since all the other Targaryen's are dead? Seems to me they have 1 too many dragons right now...
There have been several clues but I think Tyrion isn't Tywin's son but the son of the Mad King.
Making Tyrion a Targaryen, possible heir to the throne and potential dragon rider.....if they go down that road with that theory.
RE: RE: Even with John... Sansa probably has the best
Also, aren't Jon and Dany the only two that can fully tame the dragons since all the other Targaryen's are dead? Seems to me they have 1 too many dragons right now...
There have been several clues but I think Tyrion isn't Tywin's son but the son of the Mad King.
Making Tyrion a Targaryen, possible heir to the throne and potential dragon rider.....if they go down that road with that theory.
I think those clues are coming from the books, no?
RE: RE: Even with John... Sansa probably has the best
I feel the opposite about Yara. I think she is only around to die, forcing Theon's character to come full circle and take on the role of leader of the Iron Born and kill his uncle.
Also, aren't Jon and Dany the only two that can fully tame the dragons since all the other Targaryen's are dead? Seems to me they have 1 too many dragons right now...
There have been several clues but I think Tyrion isn't Tywin's son but the son of the Mad King.
Making Tyrion a Targaryen, possible heir to the throne and potential dragon rider.....if they go down that road with that theory.
I think those clues are coming from the books, no?
Z, never read the books. I'm mostly referencing the clue's from the TV show.
1) Tywin was the Mad King's hand but an incident caused him to leave that post and return to Casterly Rock....(Possibly the Mad King raping Tywin's wife and why Tywin was so eager to take revenge when his Lannister army sacked Kings Landing and why his forces were so brutal.)
2) There were several clues\quotes here to support that position from Tywin when he told Tyrion in season 4 on what selfless acts he did for the family "There was no way to prove you weren't my son"......then when Tyrion shot Tywin in season 4 finale "You're no son of mine!"
I think those two line help define the thoughts that Tywin had about Tyrion not being his actual son and the offspring of what the Mad King did to his wife.
3) Most telling to me, was when Tyrion unshackled the dragons. If I remember correctly, the two dragons that were locked away weren't eating and were violent against anyone who came near them. Tyrion then freed both and my guess is the dragon's sensed Targaryen blood and didn't harm Tyrion when he first approached them.
Also, aren't Jon and Dany the only two that can fully tame the dragons since all the other Targaryen's are dead? Seems to me they have 1 too many dragons right now...
There have been several clues but I think Tyrion isn't Tywin's son but the son of the Mad King.
Making Tyrion a Targaryen, possible heir to the throne and potential dragon rider.....if they go down that road with that theory.
I think those clues are coming from the books, no?
Z, never read the books. I'm mostly referencing the clue's from the TV show.
1) Tywin was the Mad King's hand but an incident caused him to leave that post and return to Casterly Rock....(Possibly the Mad King raping Tywin's wife and why Tywin was so eager to take revenge when his Lannister army sacked Kings Landing and why his forces were so brutal.)
2) There were several clues\quotes here to support that position from Tywin when he told Tyrion in season 4 on what selfless acts he did for the family "There was no way to prove you weren't my son"......then when Tyrion shot Tywin in season 4 finale "You're no son of mine!"
I think those two line help define the thoughts that Tywin had about Tyrion not being his actual son and the offspring of what the Mad King did to his wife.
3) Most telling to me, was when Tyrion unshackled the dragons. If I remember correctly, the two dragons that were locked away weren't eating and were violent against anyone who came near them. Tyrion then freed both and my guess is the dragon's sensed Targaryen blood and didn't harm Tyrion when he first approached them.
Also, speaking of dragon riding. Remember Tyrion's blueprint designs he gave to Bran, so he could still mount a horse? A few tweaks & maybe some warging...
Now that Jon was made King of the North, does that legitimize him as Ned's son and does his name automatically get changed to Jon Stark or will he still go by Jon Snow?
...and it's just one aspect of Tyrion's longstanding affinity for dragons. Like many things, this topic gets far more play in the books, but the show has touched on it a few times. Does that make him the proverbial "third head of the dragon"? Maybe, maybe not. My guess is yes. In any case, it appears the one known surviving Targ (Dany) is about to be united at Dragonstone (where else?) with the two characters most likely to be her secret kin: Tyrion and Jon.
Whether they can form a durable alliance is anyone's guess. The Episode 2 preview suggests that Jon's proposal to treat with Daenerys will be roughly as popular with his bannermen as his earlier decision to team up with the Wildlings. Then there's the problem of aligning objectives. The parties have a common enemy in King's Landing, but they are preparing for completely separate wars. And Jon has to make the case that the campaign for which Dany has prepared her whole life isn't really important. Or, as Davos puts it, "It doesn't matter which corpse sits the Iron Throne." That's not what Dany wants to hear from potential allies.
Speaking of Davos, he'll be an asset at Dragonstone, assuming he makes the trip. He knows the territory, albeit for tragic reasons. I bet he and Tyrion will eventually hit it off, although they might get off to a rocky start because, strictly speaking, Tyrion killed his sons. I wonder if that will come up, given the time constraints under which the show is now operating.
Now that Jon was made King of the North, does that legitimize him as Ned's son and does his name automatically get changed to Jon Stark or will he still go by Jon Snow?
As King, he could probably legitimize himself, but:
A) That would be out of character; and
B) He'd only have change it again when Bran shows up and shares his visions.
Fair enough but that an almost incredible leap on your own. You're talking about seconds in the whole series. Did they actually even say the Mad King raped Tywin's wife on the show? I get he said "You're no son of mine" but I think most viewers would assume he never loved him/he was an embarrassment to the Lannister name/ ect.
I haven't read the books either but a bunch of people have brought book spoilers to the table here that expand on your theory, much to my disappointment.
a lot of clues point to it, but if Tywin knew he wasn't his father then I think he would have killed him.
If I recall correctly, Tywin's wife/Tryion's mother died giving birth to Tyrion and Tywin already had resentment toward Tyrion for that, then the fact he was a dwarf served as a sense of embarrassment for Tywin too. Not to mention Tyrion's personality which embarrassed Tywin.
If he knew wasn't his father he would have killed him IMO.
so there's the possibility that Tywin just didn't know, which is legit, but if Tywin didn't know, who knows?
Just us fans? Tyrion certainly doesn't seem to hint that he has any indication, does he?
Fair enough but that an almost incredible leap on your own. You're talking about seconds in the whole series. Did they actually even say the Mad King raped Tywin's wife on the show? I get he said "You're no son of mine" but I think most viewers would assume he never loved him/he was an embarrassment to the Lannister name/ ect.
I haven't read the books either but a bunch of people have brought book spoilers to the table here that expand on your theory, much to my disappointment.
In the TV show, when it was mentioned Tywin Lannister was the Mad King's hand but had left that position and was replaced by Jon Arryn. That's when I started to try to figure out why the power hungry Tywin, who was consumed with his legacy, would leave such a prestigious role as "Hand of the King". It wasn't till season 4, when he told Tyrion "since I couldn't prove you weren't my son", when I (and many others) jumped to that conclusion.
The scene in season 5 with Tyrion freeing the dragons only confirmed it from my point of view.
a lot of clues point to it, but if Tywin knew he wasn't his father then I think he would have killed him.
If I recall correctly, Tywin's wife/Tryion's mother died giving birth to Tyrion and Tywin already had resentment toward Tyrion for that, then the fact he was a dwarf served as a sense of embarrassment for Tywin too. Not to mention Tyrion's personality which embarrassed Tywin.
If he knew wasn't his father he would have killed him IMO.
so there's the possibility that Tywin just didn't know, which is legit, but if Tywin didn't know, who knows?
Just us fans? Tyrion certainly doesn't seem to hint that he has any indication, does he?
I don't think Tywin 100% knew that as a fact or Tyrion would be dead. Did he have suspicions that it could be possible that Tyrion wasn't his son? Yes I think he did.
Which is why he almost threw Tyrion to his death when he was born, until he changed his mind. Plus a man that was so consumed with his legacy, would not want his pride and family image tarnished by admitting that Tyrion might not be a Lannister in the public eye.
I think that doubt was always in the back of Tywin's mind and why he treated Tyrion so poorly in comparison to his brother and sister.
Beric, Thoros, and The Hound have great chemistry together. You have the serious, determined leader; the drunken, partier zealot; and the brooding cynic. All you need is a tech-savy warrior (blacksmith Gendry??) and they are basically the Ninja Turtles.
Haha. I like this.
What do you think should come of it?
She ripped off her mask, revealed who she was, yelled the Stark phrase, and then told everyone to spread the news. Lol
It's just strange people think her identity will be hidden and nobody will ever find out she did anything IMO
She ripped off her mask, revealed who she was, yelled the Stark phrase, and then told everyone to spread the news. Lol
It's just strange people think her identity will be hidden and nobody will ever find out she did anything IMO
To be fair. I doubt any of the serving girls, or Walder's young wife knew who Arya was or that there even was another Stark girl besides Sansa.
Cersie and everyone else in Kingslanding has thought Arya dead for a while now. Cersie will most likley think it was Jon and Sansa that orchestrated the massacre, or maybe the Brotherhood Without Banners, but I doubt Arya would even be in Cersie's mind.
Jon and Sansa may be a different story. I hope there is a scene where they try to figure out who planned, since all of the Northern lords are with them in Winterfell.
She ripped off her mask, revealed who she was, yelled the Stark phrase, and then told everyone to spread the news. Lol
It's just strange people think her identity will be hidden and nobody will ever find out she did anything IMO
Nobody disputes that others will find out she's alive and that she murdered the Freys. They dispute that Euron will kill Arya as a gift to Cersei. Even if Cersei knows Arya is alive and responsible for the Freys' deaths, Arya is still probably relatively low on her wish list after:
Tyrion
Sand women
Sansa
probably some others I'm forgetting
Also, that's a lot of work to go through (the whole Arya arc) just for her to kill the Frey's before meeting her death. IMO, there's a bigger part for her to play in it all.
I'm not talking about Euron's gift at all right now. That's just one of 5-10 things it could be.
As for Wun Wun...logistically it couldn't possibly be him. But they did make it a point to zero in on the giants eyes, with the same one that Ramsay shot out missing. Misleading but I'm sure we can chalk it up to sloppy writing. Unless of course there's more to be revealed that we don't know about.
I'm not sure how it all works since she fled Bravos, but it seems she still has access to the Great Hall of Faces or whatever it's called and can assume the identity of any dead person.
she can be killed, of course she can, and at any time, but I see her more of the one who seeks vengeance for Jon's and/or Sansa's death and is the surviving Stark (maybe Bran too).
the biggest "issue" I had with the opener the more I think about it (and I realize it's fiction and a fantasy story) is that Arya killed Walder Frey the end of season 6. So how long had passed between the end of season 6 and the beginning of season 7 where she buried the body so no one knew, acted as Walder Frey in his face, and called another feast and set up the "red wedding revenge"?
As for Wun Wun...logistically it couldn't possibly be him. But they did make it a point to zero in on the giants eyes, with the same one that Ramsay shot out missing. Misleading but I'm sure we can chalk it up to sloppy writing. Unless of course there's more to be revealed that we don't know about.
If I had my way I'd rid the show of the dragons as soon as possible. Its a budget suck, they don't look all that great on screen and having them should be a fairly simple routing in an actual battle. I think the showrunners are married to them at this point but I hope atleast a couple of them die this season.
Out of about ten posts in a row I think I used "lol" once and it was an attempt to show that I thought it was funny. Apologies.
I also alluded to it earlier that I believe Euron will bring out the horn Dragonbinder and catch a Dragon or Two. That will be the gift and makes sense.
I'm not sure how it all works since she fled Bravos, but it seems she still has access to the Great Hall of Faces or whatever it's called and can assume the identity of any dead person.
she can be killed, of course she can, and at any time, but I see her more of the one who seeks vengeance for Jon's and/or Sansa's death and is the surviving Stark (maybe Bran too).
the biggest "issue" I had with the opener the more I think about it (and I realize it's fiction and a fantasy story) is that Arya killed Walder Frey the end of season 6. So how long had passed between the end of season 6 and the beginning of season 7 where she buried the body so no one knew, acted as Walder Frey in his face, and called another feast and set up the "red wedding revenge"?
I think the episode began essentially shortly after she killed Frey in the finale. Then the rest of the episode began after some more time had lapsed, word spread, and arya started making her way north. That's how it would make sense to me.
I'm not sure how it all works since she fled Bravos, but it seems she still has access to the Great Hall of Faces or whatever it's called and can assume the identity of any dead person.
she can be killed, of course she can, and at any time, but I see her more of the one who seeks vengeance for Jon's and/or Sansa's death and is the surviving Stark (maybe Bran too).
the biggest "issue" I had with the opener the more I think about it (and I realize it's fiction and a fantasy story) is that Arya killed Walder Frey the end of season 6. So how long had passed between the end of season 6 and the beginning of season 7 where she buried the body so no one knew, acted as Walder Frey in his face, and called another feast and set up the "red wedding revenge"?
I believe they say the two feasts (where she kills Walder and then the one where she is Walder) happened within a 'fortnight'.
I'm not sure how it all works since she fled Bravos, but it seems she still has access to the Great Hall of Faces or whatever it's called and can assume the identity of any dead person.
she can be killed, of course she can, and at any time, but I see her more of the one who seeks vengeance for Jon's and/or Sansa's death and is the surviving Stark (maybe Bran too).
the biggest "issue" I had with the opener the more I think about it (and I realize it's fiction and a fantasy story) is that Arya killed Walder Frey the end of season 6. So how long had passed between the end of season 6 and the beginning of season 7 where she buried the body so no one knew, acted as Walder Frey in his face, and called another feast and set up the "red wedding revenge"?
Wasn't it supposed to have been the same night? She said in her speech that everyone got to be called together twice in one day I thought. Might have to listen to it again but I assumed the real Frey was just laying in the back on the floor somewhere. I think time sped up a little after that scene because Jaime and Cersei had already heard in their next scene.
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makes it come off that every opposing opinion is a stupid one.
Out of about ten posts in a row I think I used "lol" once and it was an attempt to show that I thought it was funny. Apologies.
all good.
As for Wun Wun...logistically it couldn't possibly be him. But they did make it a point to zero in on the giants eyes, with the same one that Ramsay shot out missing. Misleading but I'm sure we can chalk it up to sloppy writing. Unless of course there's more to be revealed that we don't know about.
I can definitely see Euron capturing/killing one in the next 2-3 episodes.
Also, aren't Jon and Dany the only two that can fully tame the dragons since all the other Targaryen's are dead? Seems to me they have 1 too many dragons right now...
As for Wun Wun...logistically it couldn't possibly be him. But they did make it a point to zero in on the giants eyes, with the same one that Ramsay shot out missing. Misleading but I'm sure we can chalk it up to sloppy writing. Unless of course there's more to be revealed that we don't know about.
I think she'll probably lose one Dragon at some point before the "final battle." It would surprise me if she lost all three.
There has been some theorizing about the possibility of a Wight Dragon. Which would be pretty wild
We are assuming that marching army was still beyond the wall, but perhaps they were marching to Winterfell. I assume they would have burned Wun Wun and all the bodies, but who knows, perhaps the freefolk took him north to be buried.
We are assuming that marching army was still beyond the wall, but perhaps they were marching to Winterfell. I assume they would have burned Wun Wun and all the bodies, but who knows, perhaps the freefolk took him north to be buried.
Them bypassing the wall would be a huge plot point that they have to show, IMO. Not only that but they can't be past the wall yet unless the widlings that are now going to fortify the wall meet the wights in route.
While Arya might be stretching things when she (as Walder) attributes the Red Wedding to every now-adult male Frey of consequence, she draws the line at punishing the girls, who have absolutely no say in anything at the Twins. Aside from Walder's young wife, the girls serving the wine might not even be family members.
Would it be "smarter" to kill them? Not necessarily. Consider the mystique of the Faceless Men: just showing one of their coins to a Braavosi captain was enough to book Arya's passage across the Narrow Sea. Arya might be bringing a bit of that assassin swagger back to Westeros. For houses in the Riverlands wavering in their loyalty to the crown, knowing that a single young wolf just wiped out all the Frey sheep could be a pretty persuasive recruiting tool.
Arya is also a big part of the girl-power ethos that the show has embraced lately. There's an element of sisterhood/empowerment in her "liberating" the women of House Frey - probably the least "woke" house in Westeros.
Will sparing the girls wind up costing Arya in the end? I doubt it. There are too many reasons for the show to have made that choice, other than to set up her downfall. And Arya puts herself in danger all the time. If the showrunners plan to kill her, they don't need serving girls from House Frey to put the Lannister army on her trail. She just told a platoon of them that she's on her way to the capitol to kill the queen.
Ultimately, I think Arya is going to die. Throwing out that Euron intercepts her was just something I threw out as a means to make that happen. Realistically, I see her maybe going down in a ball of fury like Scarface and and maybe taking out the Mountain along the way. Who knows. Nobody knows much right now. We are all just throwing out guesses.
Maybe from a lately standpoint you mean Sansa's confidence or Lyanna Mormont or even Arya the assassin, but Martin always emphasized the strong women (and the things they'd make men do).
from Cersei, Catelyn/Lady Stoneheart, Oleanna, Melisandre, the Sand Snakes, Arya, Lysa, Daenerys, Brienne, Ygritte, even Sansa, Gilly, and Margaery, as well as Lyanna Mormont, etc.
Maybe from a lately standpoint you mean Sansa's confidence or Lyanna Mormont or even Arya the assassin, but Martin always emphasized the strong women (and the things they'd make men do).
from Cersei, Catelyn/Lady Stoneheart, Oleanna, Melisandre, the Sand Snakes, Arya, Lysa, Daenerys, Brienne, Ygritte, even Sansa, Gilly, and Margaery, as well as Lyanna Mormont, etc.
Yeah. Literally the whole world is ruled by women at the moment.
I feel the opposite about Yara. I think she is only around to die, forcing Theon's character to come full circle and take on the role of leader of the Iron Born and kill his uncle.
Excellent point about Arya's uncle Edmure. With all the Frey's taken out, that should now leave Edmure (who was married to one of Walter's daughters, as the only remaining heir to take over Riverrun.
Wouldn't Bran have the best claim? Not that he wants it.
There have been several clues but I think Tyrion isn't Tywin's son but the son of the Mad King.
Making Tyrion a Targaryen, possible heir to the throne and potential dragon rider.....if they go down that road with that theory.
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Claim if she wanted to push it. Daenerys, Olenna Tyrell, The Viper Girls, Cersei... Its almost ridulous when you think about it.
Wouldn't Bran have the best claim? Not that he wants it.
Yeah I guess. If people realized he was alive.
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Also, aren't Jon and Dany the only two that can fully tame the dragons since all the other Targaryen's are dead? Seems to me they have 1 too many dragons right now...
There have been several clues but I think Tyrion isn't Tywin's son but the son of the Mad King.
Making Tyrion a Targaryen, possible heir to the throne and potential dragon rider.....if they go down that road with that theory.
I think those clues are coming from the books, no?
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Claim if she wanted to push it. Daenerys, Olenna Tyrell, The Viper Girls, Cersei... Its almost ridulous when you think about it.
Wouldn't Bran have the best claim? Not that he wants it.
Except nobody knows he's alive.
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Too.
I feel the opposite about Yara. I think she is only around to die, forcing Theon's character to come full circle and take on the role of leader of the Iron Born and kill his uncle.
Yeah. I could see that too. Sure.
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giants#1 said:
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Also, aren't Jon and Dany the only two that can fully tame the dragons since all the other Targaryen's are dead? Seems to me they have 1 too many dragons right now...
There have been several clues but I think Tyrion isn't Tywin's son but the son of the Mad King.
Making Tyrion a Targaryen, possible heir to the throne and potential dragon rider.....if they go down that road with that theory.
I think those clues are coming from the books, no?
Z, never read the books. I'm mostly referencing the clue's from the TV show.
1) Tywin was the Mad King's hand but an incident caused him to leave that post and return to Casterly Rock....(Possibly the Mad King raping Tywin's wife and why Tywin was so eager to take revenge when his Lannister army sacked Kings Landing and why his forces were so brutal.)
2) There were several clues\quotes here to support that position from Tywin when he told Tyrion in season 4 on what selfless acts he did for the family "There was no way to prove you weren't my son"......then when Tyrion shot Tywin in season 4 finale "You're no son of mine!"
I think those two line help define the thoughts that Tywin had about Tyrion not being his actual son and the offspring of what the Mad King did to his wife.
3) Most telling to me, was when Tyrion unshackled the dragons. If I remember correctly, the two dragons that were locked away weren't eating and were violent against anyone who came near them. Tyrion then freed both and my guess is the dragon's sensed Targaryen blood and didn't harm Tyrion when he first approached them.
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In comment 13531208 NYG27 said:
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giants#1 said:
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Also, aren't Jon and Dany the only two that can fully tame the dragons since all the other Targaryen's are dead? Seems to me they have 1 too many dragons right now...
There have been several clues but I think Tyrion isn't Tywin's son but the son of the Mad King.
Making Tyrion a Targaryen, possible heir to the throne and potential dragon rider.....if they go down that road with that theory.
I think those clues are coming from the books, no?
Z, never read the books. I'm mostly referencing the clue's from the TV show.
1) Tywin was the Mad King's hand but an incident caused him to leave that post and return to Casterly Rock....(Possibly the Mad King raping Tywin's wife and why Tywin was so eager to take revenge when his Lannister army sacked Kings Landing and why his forces were so brutal.)
2) There were several clues\quotes here to support that position from Tywin when he told Tyrion in season 4 on what selfless acts he did for the family "There was no way to prove you weren't my son"......then when Tyrion shot Tywin in season 4 finale "You're no son of mine!"
I think those two line help define the thoughts that Tywin had about Tyrion not being his actual son and the offspring of what the Mad King did to his wife.
3) Most telling to me, was when Tyrion unshackled the dragons. If I remember correctly, the two dragons that were locked away weren't eating and were violent against anyone who came near them. Tyrion then freed both and my guess is the dragon's sensed Targaryen blood and didn't harm Tyrion when he first approached them.
Also, speaking of dragon riding. Remember Tyrion's blueprint designs he gave to Bran, so he could still mount a horse? A few tweaks & maybe some warging...
Whether they can form a durable alliance is anyone's guess. The Episode 2 preview suggests that Jon's proposal to treat with Daenerys will be roughly as popular with his bannermen as his earlier decision to team up with the Wildlings. Then there's the problem of aligning objectives. The parties have a common enemy in King's Landing, but they are preparing for completely separate wars. And Jon has to make the case that the campaign for which Dany has prepared her whole life isn't really important. Or, as Davos puts it, "It doesn't matter which corpse sits the Iron Throne." That's not what Dany wants to hear from potential allies.
Speaking of Davos, he'll be an asset at Dragonstone, assuming he makes the trip. He knows the territory, albeit for tragic reasons. I bet he and Tyrion will eventually hit it off, although they might get off to a rocky start because, strictly speaking, Tyrion killed his sons. I wonder if that will come up, given the time constraints under which the show is now operating.
A) That would be out of character; and
B) He'd only have change it again when Bran shows up and shares his visions.
I haven't read the books either but a bunch of people have brought book spoilers to the table here that expand on your theory, much to my disappointment.
If I recall correctly, Tywin's wife/Tryion's mother died giving birth to Tyrion and Tywin already had resentment toward Tyrion for that, then the fact he was a dwarf served as a sense of embarrassment for Tywin too. Not to mention Tyrion's personality which embarrassed Tywin.
If he knew wasn't his father he would have killed him IMO.
so there's the possibility that Tywin just didn't know, which is legit, but if Tywin didn't know, who knows?
Just us fans? Tyrion certainly doesn't seem to hint that he has any indication, does he?
I haven't read the books either but a bunch of people have brought book spoilers to the table here that expand on your theory, much to my disappointment.
In the TV show, when it was mentioned Tywin Lannister was the Mad King's hand but had left that position and was replaced by Jon Arryn. That's when I started to try to figure out why the power hungry Tywin, who was consumed with his legacy, would leave such a prestigious role as "Hand of the King". It wasn't till season 4, when he told Tyrion "since I couldn't prove you weren't my son", when I (and many others) jumped to that conclusion.
The scene in season 5 with Tyrion freeing the dragons only confirmed it from my point of view.
If I recall correctly, Tywin's wife/Tryion's mother died giving birth to Tyrion and Tywin already had resentment toward Tyrion for that, then the fact he was a dwarf served as a sense of embarrassment for Tywin too. Not to mention Tyrion's personality which embarrassed Tywin.
If he knew wasn't his father he would have killed him IMO.
so there's the possibility that Tywin just didn't know, which is legit, but if Tywin didn't know, who knows?
Just us fans? Tyrion certainly doesn't seem to hint that he has any indication, does he?
I don't think Tywin 100% knew that as a fact or Tyrion would be dead. Did he have suspicions that it could be possible that Tyrion wasn't his son? Yes I think he did.
Which is why he almost threw Tyrion to his death when he was born, until he changed his mind. Plus a man that was so consumed with his legacy, would not want his pride and family image tarnished by admitting that Tyrion might not be a Lannister in the public eye.
I think that doubt was always in the back of Tywin's mind and why he treated Tyrion so poorly in comparison to his brother and sister.
I think that's more of a clue than the dragons not eating him.