NFT: Knicks Chat 7/17/2017- As the Melo turns

if there's truth to that, and it certainly does seem probably.

We fire Phil and then Mills is thrown into the fire and panics. That's about right.

I would put the chances of Melo going to Portland at close to 0.

If this shit show continues he may pay the Knicks to get him out of here ANYWHERE!

from CJ posting the pic of Melo in a portland uniform.

With the new chapter in the Melo drama, you'd think other teams(if interested) would reach out to the Knicks. If you are a team that thinks Melo is a difference maker, isn't this when you call the Knicks to see if you can get something going?

thing that should be a positive with the Perry hire is he's known for very strong relationships with his players. There was clearly a disconnect between Phil and the players so in theory the "culture" should improve in that regard. That being said Zeke was close with the players and... lol

That would have been so much better than handing out guaranteed money like he did.

it can be explained away by sample size but Ryan Anderson 35 career playoff games 36% from the field. It seems like when defenses clamp down Anderson really struggles. I had some similar concerns with Markkanen.

but he needs to decide if he wants to stay or at least give the knicks more options. If nothing else if he is willing to open up his list then maybe the knicks can get HOU to up the offer. I obviously dont want him to stay, but id rather he stays then the knicks take a crap offer. I mean wherever he goes he only has to go there for one year. So does he want to open up his list to include some more teams or does he want to stay in NY on a rebuilding team that wants to transition to a new star.

Mills really played his cards right. He went from potentially being removed from all basketball matters to getting a promotion as President along with a new contract/ raise.

It sucks but that Hardaway signing had to be rooted in Mills demonstrating to Dolan he could deliver a player that Dolan liked and was familiar with.

Good article here.
Swiss Cheese D - ( New Window )

don't buy the last piece of info from Berman for a second (and the rest of what he says for that matter). Every single piece of info Berman has thrown out there this offseason has been 100% false and he knows it. He tried to drum up clicks and reads by linking the Knicks to every top free agent out there. Now that his narrative was clearly shown as false (Waiters being the Knicks top target) by the fact Hardaway got more money, he writes some BS story that Mills panic'd and threw money at Hardaway. That doesn't even make sense.... but Berman knows that with how dysfunctional this team has been he can throw any bull against the wall to cover up the fact that he has no inside info and the fan base has been so jaded by the team they will believe it.

In comment 13529882 Steve in Greenwich said:

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don't buy the last piece of info from Berman for a second (and the rest of what he says for that matter). Every single piece of info Berman has thrown out there this offseason has been 100% false and he knows it. He tried to drum up clicks and reads by linking the Knicks to every top free agent out there. Now that his narrative was clearly shown as false (Waiters being the Knicks top target) by the fact Hardaway got more money, he writes some BS story that Mills panic'd and threw money at Hardaway. That doesn't even make sense.... but Berman knows that with how dysfunctional this team has been he can throw any bull against the wall to cover up the fact that he has no inside info and the fan base has been so jaded by the team they will believe it.

it is the same as isola, he was on sportcenter saying knicks should pull back from trade talks and try to up their leverage and melos value...

then the next day after isola claims it was at the 2 yard line, he kills the knicks for taking a step back and not completing the deal...

isola and berman report the opposite of each other so when 1 is right the other can throw it in the others face....

that mills is more of the business guy and perry will be able to do what he sees fit on the basketball side including bringing in some of his own guys...

mills will have his name on all the moves but perry will be doing all the work...

In comment 13529877 DanMetroMan said:

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it can be explained away by sample size but Ryan Anderson 35 career playoff games 36% from the field. It seems like when defenses clamp down Anderson really struggles. I had some similar concerns with Markkanen.

we sort of saw this on a smaller scale with Novak against good teams. You don't even need to "clamp down". You can put your worst defender on a guy like that - all he has to do is stand next to him and his effectiveness is limited.

.

between Berman and Mills I don't know who sucks at their job more. Regardless, I'm all for a tank (intentional or not) but there's a difference between losing games because you're a young/developing team and there's losing games because the team is a horrific at basketball. At some point you need a professional NBA point guard on the roster or you risk negatively impacting the development of anyone worth a damn on this roster.

How much did Phil Jackson�s criticism of you when he traded you to the Hawks in 2015 motivate you? Tim Hardaway Jr: It motivated me big-time. Then when I went down to the D-League, it really felt like he was getting the best of me, you know? But I loved it, I loved the challenge and I loved the opportunity that was at stake, you know? You could either fold, or you could get up on your feet and stand for who you are as a person. My whole motto is to prove people wrong. I�ve been doing that ever since I was in high school, and I just live with that and thrive off of it and keep that saying on my head every single time when I feel like I�m down or we as a team were down. 5 hours ago � via New York Post

You have new fodder now because many Knicks fans think your four-year, $71 million deal is the most insane contract they�ve ever seen. Tim Hardaway Jr: I would tell �em they�re getting a different ballplayer than what they saw previous years. I definitely grew as a ballplayer, grew as a man on and off the floor. � I just want them to know that they�re gonna get the best of Tim Hardaway Jr. 24/7, 365 days of the year, and they won�t regret it. Q: So you�re worth the money? Tim Hardaway Jr: I think so. I know so. I know how much work I�ve put into the offseason, I know how much work I put in during the season, and I don�t think it�s a mistake at all. 5 hours ago � via New York Post

for the question Perry will inevitably pose to Hornacek, "so, Brandon Knight...is he as bad as his recent stats suggest or do you believe he can come in and hold the fort until Ntilikina is ready?".

If the former is JHs opinion, clearly they avoid him at all costs.

If the latter, I'd love to get TJ Warren as a sweetener to take him i.e. Lee + Kooz for Knight + Warren.

Either way, we are fortunate to have JH offer his opinion on this one, especially given the utter lack of lead guards available.

While I am lukewarm at best on BK, I really love Warren's well developed offensive repertoire.

In comment 13529879 TyreeHelmet said:

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Mills really played his cards right. He went from potentially being removed from all basketball matters to getting a promotion as President along with a new contract/ raise. It sucks but that Hardaway signing had to be rooted in Mills demonstrating to Dolan he could deliver a player that Dolan liked and was familiar with. Good article here. Swiss Cheese D - ( New Window )

So it's a bad signing because Atlanta WANTED to pay him just 48 million, and because lesser players got less money? Not a great argument.

IMO it was a bit of an overpay, but if you look at what similar players got in this age range the past two offseasons, THJR's contract is easily justifiable.

In comment 13529940 Pep22 said:

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for the question Perry will inevitably pose to Hornacek, "so, Brandon Knight...is he as bad as his recent stats suggest or do you believe he can come in and hold the fort until Ntilikina is ready?". If the former is JHs opinion, clearly they avoid him at all costs. If the latter, I'd love to get TJ Warren as a sweetener to take him i.e. Lee + Kooz for Knight + Warren. Either way, we are fortunate to have JH offer his opinion on this one, especially given the utter lack of lead guards available. While I am lukewarm at best on BK, I really love Warren's well developed offensive repertoire.

Knight was awful under Hornacek and owed big money for what he is. He was benched this season due to lack of defensive effort and the Knicks would be his 4th team. Hard pass.

In fact

Player A 26 in December .047 career WS/48, 2017 .015 WS/48

Player B 25 in November career .045 WS/48, 2017 .036 WS/48

One is owed 43 million, the other can likely be had for close to the minimum. Awful move.

for Knight. That's about it!

In comment 13529964 Enzo said:

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for Knight. That's about it!

For sure but I'm talking realistically lol Noah for Knight 100%. Otherwise hard pass. In fact even if Hornacek advocated for him I'd pass. 43 million is too much to gamble on Jeff Hornacek's view of the guy (especially with Hornacek likely desperate for any PG he can get.) Knight had one run of good ball in his career, 52 games for the Bucks otherwise he's been a flat turd. People are mocking the THjr signing, if we "gave" Knight 3 years 43 people would be laughing their asses off.

.

Trey Burke, Tyler Ennis or Demetrius Jackson?

actually played pretty well for the Lakers. They should just add one of these guys. Knight isn't worth looking at.

is the hidden gem that is probably available given the Josh Jackson pick. To me, he has a very similar skill set to a guy in SL that people are raving about...Jayson Tatum.

I'm sure it was discussed post-Phil firing but how do you think we would have drafted if Phil wasn't here? Think Frenchie was still the choice?

In comment 13530026 tbonfig said:

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I'm sure it was discussed post-Phil firing but how do you think we would have drafted if Phil wasn't here? Think Frenchie was still the choice?

Who cares? Can we stop talking about this already until we see him play even 3 minutes of NBA basketball?

pickup for the Knicks. He was completely buried in Boston because of their insane depth.

It seems that Jackson left the Knicks with one big mess -- his constant harping and ripping of Melo has left his trade value low and his morale even lower.

I don't believe the articles that say the Knicks would like to try and keep him as their mantra since Jackson left has been "athletic, long and young," and Melo is none of those things.

The problem is that right now, it looks like a marketplace of one team in Houston, and without taking on the ugly Anderson contract (which they should not do), Houston would have to to Ariza and Gordon (and that's not enough anyway).

The likely outcome is that the Knicks bring Melo back and hope he plays well enough that some contender will want him around the trade deadline.

also have a presser at 2pm. Coincidence?

In comment 13530108 Pep22 said:

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also have a presser at 2pm. Coincidence?

The CEO is making the announcement so it's likely something business related ie Morey extension or uniform branding.

Ian Begley‏ @IanBegley 7m7 minutes ago
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Steve Mills says Knicks will emphasize pride, work ethic, accountability, youth, athleticism. Mentions the term rebuilding.
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Ian Begley‏ @IanBegley 2m2 minutes ago
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Scott Perry says he's 'humbled' by the opportunity to help run the Knicks as new general manager. He thanks his family for their support.
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Ian Begley‏ @IanBegley 4m4 minutes ago
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Steve Mills says Scott Perry will have the freedom & flexibility to add/change front office staff while working in tandem with Mills on it.

was very impressive in his opening remarks.

He wants to own this

He's not scared like Griffin was

He sees the $$$ and knows he can gain Mills trust and truly stamp his name on the next Knicks great team!

Barbara Barker‏Verified account @meanbarb 32s32 seconds ago
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"We also feel that Carmelo could easily be a part of our team next year," Mills on Carmelo.

In comment 13530176 DanMetroMan said:

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Barbara Barker‏Verified account @meanbarb 32s32 seconds ago More "We also feel that Carmelo could easily be a part of our team next year," Mills on Carmelo.

After Mills admitted we are shopping him actively and have been

Steve mills says " No. "

to be ambiguous here. In other words, not advertise that they are compelled to trade him (i.e. what Phil did). This should make HOU sweat a bit, hopefully to the point where they are giving up meaningful assets be it draft picks, the Chinese kid, Llull, Hartenstein etc.

In comment 13530052 Sgrcts said:

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In comment 13530026 tbonfig said: Quote: I'm sure it was discussed post-Phil firing but how do you think we would have drafted if Phil wasn't here? Think Frenchie was still the choice? Who cares? Can we stop talking about this already until we see him play even 3 minutes of NBA basketball?

Well, I care, which is why I asked the question. The question is not shitting on Frenchie, just curious if anyone thinks we would have went in a different direction instead of drafting a player seemingly fit for the triangle.

Scott looks great tho

is of zero value to the Knicks. He's 30 and signed through 2021. He has a massive buyout. Not even worth asking about him.

Sounds like Rockets draftee Sergio Llull, perhaps the top player left in Europe these days, is in no rush to move to Houston. In an interview with COPE radio in Spain, the 29-year-old guard once again stated he has no intention of leaving Real Madrid for now.
"I'm not in the NBA because I'm happy in Madrid. Houston has been waiting for me three of four years."
"They tried to convince me, but I am where I want to be in Madrid. Houston has been very respectful of my decision. They didn't pressure me and congratulate me on my success. I've never closed the door on the NBA. I live in the present."
"I have a contract with Real Madrid until 2021 and I plan on fulfilling it."

Hornacek likes him, too. May be lip service, but it sounded convincing.

In comment 13530211 bceagle05 said:

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Hornacek likes him, too. May be lip service, but it sounded convincing.

I mean, what else would he say? "I never wanted to draft Frank"?

fulling supporting all members of the Knicks but Hornacek has yet to even see Frank play up close thanks to no workout and then his knee "issue". If their praise was anything less than effusive it would be notable.

And call it a day. No need to trade for a "veteran" point guard

to run a draft...but that's neither here nor there.

not even confident Brandon Knight would be the best option if he were a FA let alone owed 43 million. Sign one of the available guys and go to war.

USA TODAY‏Verified account
@USATODAY

#BREAKING LeBron James is frustrated and concerned with the Cavaliers� offseason

funny the Cavs have such garbage assets that you can't even come up with a "fantasy" trade where you think there is no way they do it.

trade exists, its a 3 way w Love headed west i.e. to the Suns

would I take on the unattractive Knight/Dudley contracts for the upside of Warren + Chriss? yep

Now you have upside/youth at every position plus a couple beyond that

the Cavs? no...but maybe Love's recent performance and lack of front office stability leads them to a bad deal

sound like they are rolling with Bender/Big Sauce at the 4. Bender was apparently very impressive. I don't see them giving up Warren/Chriss for Love.

also wanted to force keeping love on Chauncey (in addition to low balling him) so I find it hard to believe that has changed either.

Dragan Bender scored 20 points with seven rebounds, five assists, three turnovers and one 3-pointer against the Grizzlies on Thursday.
He had more freedom on offense than maybe ever. Bender was even bringing the ball up and had plenty of plays drawn up for him to create, so he wasn't just a stretch five like he was earlier in this event. This probably won't be happening too often in October, but Bender's growth compared to last July is clearly there. He'll be vying for minutes at three positions with the Suns, but he won't have too much fantasy value out of the gate. Jul 13 - 9:57 PM

press conference is to announce they are for sale.

Another owner might not want to take on a big contract (unless of course Anderson is the swap). But Knicks won't do that deal.

In comment 13530290 PhilSimms15 said:

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Another owner might not want to take on a big contract (unless of course Anderson is the swap). But Knicks won't do that deal.

Melo at worst only has 2 years left (odds are it's one and an opt out) so I doubt they would be any impact.

On ESPN radio.

Greeny was shocked with his candor and wondered why they didn't just say that during their press conference.

During page press conference, they portrayed their future working relationship as working in tandem with one another, when making any future decisions, in the front office and the team.

They just needed to get everyone intro'd and there back to the business of trading Melo.

like to see Perry allowed to bring in at least one of his own guys.

article on Scott Perry - Spears is a good writer and calls them straight
Link - ( New Window )

relevance, IF they make all the right moves going forward and get lucky in the lottery.

In comment 13530382 yatqb said:

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relevance, IF they make all the right moves going forward and get lucky in the lottery.

Sounds good to me! This is the only strategy that has not been tried and failed.

Dee is so pathetic. Perry was asked if KP would be a good player or a great player and he basically deferred saying he needed time to evaluate the roster before commenting. Which Tommy took to mean Perry is "not sold" on KP.

Lol

In comment 13530325 Canton said:

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On ESPN radio. Greeny was shocked with his candor and wondered why they didn't just say that during their press conference. During page press conference, they portrayed their future working relationship as working in tandem with one another, when making any future decisions, in the front office and the team.

Begs the question of how much review Mills will really do. Most teams the owner has to sign off on basketball decisions, formally or de facto. Some owners have a light hand. Im sure Cuban needs total buy in.

So saying Mills has final say only gives you some of the story.

In comment 13530401 Ten Ton Hammer said:

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Lol

I'm addicted to despising this guy lol

In comment 13530403 Deej said:

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In comment 13530325 Canton said: Quote: On ESPN radio. Greeny was shocked with his candor and wondered why they didn't just say that during their press conference. During page press conference, they portrayed their future working relationship as working in tandem with one another, when making any future decisions, in the front office and the team. Begs the question of how much review Mills will really do. Most teams the owner has to sign off on basketball decisions, formally or de facto. Some owners have a light hand. Im sure Cuban needs total buy in. So saying Mills has final say only gives you some of the story.

Deej,
I think the difference is it appears Mills fancies himself as an eye for talent. He's been on scouting missions for Phil, apparently the guy behind the THjr move so this is a bit more complicated than a figurehead "boss".

NO MEETING YET WITH PORZINGIS

Among the other topics covered Monday, Mills hedged on whether he plans to fly to Europe this summer to meet with disgruntled unicorn Kristaps Porzingis, who skipped his exit meeting with former President Phil Jackson and then left the country for his native Latvia without meeting with Knicks� brass.

�Kristaps and I have a hectic texting relationship,� Mills said. �I continued to text him over the summer and he and I have spoken I think two or three times over the summer.�

The Knicks said they plan to rebuild around youngsters Porzingis, Tim Hardaway Jr., Willy Hernangomez and rookie Frank Ntilikina.

Porzginis was upset with the perceived dysfunction around the Knicks, and with the treatment of Anthony by Jackson. If the Knicks end up dealing Anthony, the team will belong to Porzingis and there will be an even brighter spotlight on his behavior.
Link - ( New Window )

As far as his "behavior". Weird to me how quickly he became a target.

KP will start to appreciate that just maybe Melo wasn't helping his game as much as he may now believe.

best defender. So, once he's gone he'll have to figure that out.

Williams apparently impressed in summer league ball, I guess he should be on our Melo wishlist.

'Behavior?' He skipped a freaking exit meeting. Man, that's been blown out of proportion, especially that now Phil is gone.

could easily drag out. Really there isnt any reason for the Knicks to rush. And im not saying i want them to rush, but it would be nice to get a resolution to this sooner rather then later.

In comment 13530941 DanMetroMan said:

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Williams apparently impressed in summer league ball, I guess he should be on our Melo wishlist.

He's a FA, no?

Get a top 5 pick next year and take one of Michael Porter Jr., Luke Doncic and Deandre Ayton. Then get another top 5 pick the following year and take one of Zion Williamson, RJ Barrett and Marvin Bagley III.


Then we'd have 4 cornerstone players. Hoorah

In comment 13530987 Anakim said:

Quote:

In comment 13530941 DanMetroMan said: Quote: Williams apparently impressed in summer league ball, I guess he should be on our Melo wishlist. He's a FA, no?

Tim McMahon listed him as property of the Rockets but the Rockets blog "dream shake" makes it sound otherwise

"LAS VEGAS � Another day, another Summer League game that showed Troy Williams deserves an NBA contract. The longer he pays, the more competition Daryl Morey may have for the athletic wing.

Williams led the Rockets in scoring for the second straight game, putting in 21 points. He was a terror defensively, creating at least six points for himself on steals he ended with a dunk. The dude is a player."

makes it sound like they own his rights
Link - ( New Window )

In comment 13531035 Anakim said:

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Get a top 5 pick next year and take one of Michael Porter Jr., Luke Doncic and Deandre Ayton. Then get another top 5 pick the following year and take one of Zion Williamson, RJ Barrett and Marvin Bagley III. Then we'd have 4 cornerstone players. Hoorah

Bagley may be in the 2018 draft

some feel Hartenstein was more impressive than Qi in summer league play.

In comment 13531035 Anakim said:

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Get a top 5 pick next year and take one of Michael Porter Jr., Luke Doncic and Deandre Ayton. Then get another top 5 pick the following year and take one of Zion Williamson, RJ Barrett and Marvin Bagley III. Then we'd have 4 cornerstone players. Hoorah

I dont think the Knicks priority is to be bad.

Also, are we projecting the Knicks to be bottom 5 in the NBA bad in 2018-19? That is year 4 of KP. If we're that bad either he isnt the star we're hoping on or EVERYONE else is horrible. Year 3 of Willy (who will be 24). Year 2 of Frank. THJR's prime. A top 5 pick in 2019 would be kind of a disaster IMO.

I'm with Deej. If KP/Willy/Frank/THjr, a high pick next year and whatever other players populate the roster still equals a very high pick the following season... things went very, very wrong.

Can be a valuable 6th man.

If KP makes the leap we all expect him too - he might be good enough to wreck a tank all by himself. Especially in the east and with some decent vets still around (Lance, Lee, KOQ). I'm not saying he's taking us to 50 wins, but this does not project to be a 15-20 win roster over the next few years. Even without Melo.

mean if they are that bad not only does it mean that KP didn't take the jump it means the other guys (Frank, Willy, Dotson, THjr and whomever we took this upcoming season) + whomever they sign/trade for really disappointed. I'm all about the rebuild but odds are we are in bad shape if that were to happen.

In comment 13531145 Greg from LI said:

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An apotheosis does not imply a lack of impotence.

with a solid and sobering take on the Knicks front office. Nothing really new here, but a good summary for those who are unfamiliar with Mills and some of the history around who works and has worked at MSG.
Link - ( New Window )

In comment 13531213 Enzo said:

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with a solid and sobering take on the Knicks front office. Nothing really new here, but a good summary for those who are unfamiliar with Mills and some of the history around who works and has worked at MSG. Link - ( New Window )

So ... Phil Jackson wasn't making all of the decisions? Stuff like this attributes more power to these underlings than they actually had.

Even the people who are listed as "good" made decisions like the Bargnani trade and drafted Jordan Hill.

if you love the THjr/Baker moves... truly bizarre how the Knicks backed themselves into a corner cap wise with an OBVIOUS need at PG.

some just call it Knicksesque. Looooong history of wtf decisions and moves.

In comment 13531322 Keith said:

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some just call it Knicksesque. Looooong history of wtf decisions and moves.

Fair enough lol. Just crazy they have shown interest in PG's all off-season, acknowledge 1. Frank needs time 2. That KP is going to be the main focus and then leave themselves with 1.4 million to spend and "nobody" left at that price. People keep saying maybe they will add some space in a Melo deal... for who? That couldn't possibly have been the plan.

The good news, it's only going to help us be terrible this year. It's going to suck for our young players, but there are no good options left.

if their plan is to get another high draft pick while grooming a young team for the future. If there wasn't a pg out there who they really wanted to commit to maybe it's better to simply pass, get another decent pick, and look to add more key pieces next season with more cap room.

In comment 13531315 DanMetroMan said:

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if you love the THjr/Baker moves... truly bizarre how the Knicks backed themselves into a corner cap wise with an OBVIOUS need at PG.

it really is irresponsible roster management. And, of course, the seeds for this were planted last summer with the Rose trade and Noah signing where many people (correctly) predicted we'd end up with a gaping hole at PG and an albatross contract at center.

also, KP needs to work on post reps and driving so don't really need a PG for that.

If we can move Melo we will be all set to tank. Just wish we had done it a year earlier. Watching Ball tear up the summer league as a Laker is painful. I really like Fox too...

the point guard position is loaded at it's highest levels...but the universe of backup point guards seems to be pretty mediocre.

spoke to Rondo and Hill, "had interest" in Teague, had interest in Rubio, Holiday. This pretty clearly wasn't what they had planned. I'm just curious at what point they said "eh who cares?" The Rockets don't even have a scrubby back up PG we can take back in a Melo deal. I guess Napier from Portland. Basically nada.

amazing passer. Particularly his ability to deliver the ball to a specific place. But there are lots of reasons to be concerned. I think in some ways Summer League solidified those concerns rather than clearing them up.

The offense was terrible in the half court. He couldnt turn the corner on enough guys. His shot mechanics are still terrible. So few guy in this world can D up, and most of them are NBA vets. I'd be scared as a Lakers fan to see what happens in game 50 this season. Can he get to the lane in the half court? Is he not even trying to take a covered jumper because of his hitch?

go with baker or sign a guy like ramon sessions for a year, no reason to panic to get a point guard...

the plan is not to win next year so going with baker and ntlikina is fine with me...

i would like even with a melo trade to get aomething for lee...

In comment 13531369 Deej said:

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amazing passer. Particularly his ability to deliver the ball to a specific place. But there are lots of reasons to be concerned. I think in some ways Summer League solidified those concerns rather than clearing them up. The offense was terrible in the half court. He couldnt turn the corner on enough guys. His shot mechanics are still terrible. So few guy in this world can D up, and most of them are NBA vets. I'd be scared as a Lakers fan to see what happens in game 50 this season. Can he get to the lane in the half court? Is he not even trying to take a covered jumper because of his hitch?

The shot is one of the last things I'm concerned about, and it's overblown IMO. In fact, I think most of his weaknesses are really exaggerated around here. He's getting his legs, and needs to get his conditioning in order. He's shown that he can do a little bit of everything so far this Summer.

In comment 13531388 David in LA said:

Quote:

In comment 13531369 Deej said: Quote: amazing passer. Particularly his ability to deliver the ball to a specific place. But there are lots of reasons to be concerned. I think in some ways Summer League solidified those concerns rather than clearing them up. The offense was terrible in the half court. He couldnt turn the corner on enough guys. His shot mechanics are still terrible. So few guy in this world can D up, and most of them are NBA vets. I'd be scared as a Lakers fan to see what happens in game 50 this season. Can he get to the lane in the half court? Is he not even trying to take a covered jumper because of his hitch? The shot is one of the last things I'm concerned about, and it's overblown IMO. In fact, I think most of his weaknesses are really exaggerated around here. He's getting his legs, and needs to get his conditioning in order. He's shown that he can do a little bit of everything so far this Summer.

i think ball has the talent to be a great player, the qiestion is does he have the work ethic and the killer instinct to take over a game and carry a team...

if the team gets down 8 or 10 points can he pit them on their back, i saw him quit when they got down against kentucky...

obviousky wont happen year 1 maybe not even year 2...

and for the record i have the same questions with kp, how is going to play with melo off the team and everyone is looking at him

Carmelo Anthony has made it clear to New York management that he no longer wants to be a Knick, according to Adrian Wojnarowski of ESPN.

"Carmelo Anthony has made it clear to [the Knicks]: I want to go to Houston, I am not interested in talking to you about being reincorporated back into this New York roster," said Woj. "Houston is now prepared for the fact that these negotiations with the Knicks could run through August, September, into possibly the start of training camp." Cleveland has been rumored to have an interest in Anthony, but they can't really offer New York anything they're interested in, and Melo won't waive his no-trade clause to go to Portland, so it seems all but a certainty that Anthony is headed for a reunion with Mike D'Antoni in Houston.

Melo, we don't owe you anything. We paid you handsomely to play half of a game some of the time. I'd almost rather they let this guy play games in his home gym instead.

Maybe that was before LaLa took it off on this week's "Power".

In comment 13531402 Keith said:

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Carmelo Anthony has made it clear to New York management that he no longer wants to be a Knick, according to Adrian Wojnarowski of ESPN. "Carmelo Anthony has made it clear to [the Knicks]: I want to go to Houston, I am not interested in talking to you about being reincorporated back into this New York roster," said Woj. "Houston is now prepared for the fact that these negotiations with the Knicks could run through August, September, into possibly the start of training camp." Cleveland has been rumored to have an interest in Anthony, but they can't really offer New York anything they're interested in, and Melo won't waive his no-trade clause to go to Portland, so it seems all but a certainty that Anthony is headed for a reunion with Mike D'Antoni in Houston.

so much good stuff here. A no-trade clause is not a must-trade clause. If there's no deal, then he has no choice but to "reincorporate" himself back into this roster. Cleveland can in fact offer something or someone NY has interest in - they just don't want to part with him. As for it being all but a certainty he's going to Houston, that's a bunch of bullshit. If Mills/Perry aren't complete morons (not ruling that out just yet), he's not going to Houston unless the deal starts looking a lot different.

.

I'd want to dictate my way out of a rebuild too, so I dont have hard feelings about this (and I think he should go).

But if you want to go to Houston, tell them to offer us something that isnt literally their garbage that no one will take. Or expand your list. Or STFU. OR EVEN TAKE A $1 BUYOUT (not sure I'd do it).

Again, no hard feelings, but I could care less about what he wants. He has been using his NTC leverage against us; we're not doing him any favors now.

any part of being a Knick this season. They should bring some more teams into trade talks and then if they get a better offer than from Houston they make Melo make a decision, take the trade or stay put.

Horny should feel free to bench him at will for not executing the schemes. Enough babying. Biggest issue on this team after overall talent/athleticism (heh) is lack of accountability.

Mills/Perry/Horny press conference, but accountability was high on their list moving forward. I think the list went:

Personal gains
Youth
Athleticism
Accountability

keep him inactive and throughout the season.

I wouldn't trade him unless I could get decent value and no bad contracts.

If I couldn't trade him, I still don't want him within a mile of my young players...and don't want him near Porzingis either sooooooo

In comment 13531420 Keith said:

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Mills/Perry/Horny press conference, but accountability was high on their list moving forward. I think the list went: Personal gains Youth Athleticism Accountability

Meh. Mills still works there so there is no accountability.

I think accountability is huge. If your best players are your hardest workers and the guys who buy in the most, you can exceed your talent. But the problem of a Melo is that he doesnt try his hardest all the time (defense) and is resistant to certain offensive things (though how much of that is crappy teammates). It's why I've always said Melo is a good piece but not as your best player. He cant be your leader and tone setter. And you dont want the tone set by a Noah or Chandler or other role player.

the knicks have paid many players to stay home.

100%.

In comment 13531432 andrew_nyg said:

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keep him inactive and throughout the season. I wouldn't trade him unless I could get decent value and no bad contracts. If I couldn't trade him, I still don't want him within a mile of my young players...and don't want him near Porzingis either sooooooo

I have to think he would file a grievance. It would be a strong case that it was done because he wouldn't waive his NTC which could get the Knicks into a lot of trouble.

of Melo taking an altruistic approach to his eventual exit went out the window once Phil commenced his smear campaign. Don't underestimate the damage Phil inflicted via Rosen and his own words. After every game Melo had to take questions on this crap while Phil routinely hid from the media. The organization didn't owe him much, but I think they owed him better than he got these last few months.

That said, fuck him! Don't trade him until it's a fair return.

Too bad that he wants to dictate what our FO should do...if they have any balls at all they won't let that happen.

He owed the Knicks a much better effort, yet he was happy trying whenever he wanted. Phil did the right thing going after Melo, but he only had to because of the ridiculous NTC.

In comment 13531432 andrew_nyg said:

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keep him inactive and throughout the season. I wouldn't trade him unless I could get decent value and no bad contracts. If I couldn't trade him, I still don't want him within a mile of my young players...and don't want him near Porzingis either sooooooo

they sort of did this with Marbury during Dantoni's first year, I think. I get all of these different fiascos mixed up sometimes.

Tryin to screw the Knicks on the way in and the way out.

In comment 13531449 Keith said:

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Phil did the right thing going after Melo

that's nonsense - but whatever. You defended so many of Phil's moves I guess it just became a reflex for you.

In comment 13531400 nygiants16 said:

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In comment 13531388 David in LA said: Quote: In comment 13531369 Deej said: Quote: amazing passer. Particularly his ability to deliver the ball to a specific place. But there are lots of reasons to be concerned. I think in some ways Summer League solidified those concerns rather than clearing them up. The offense was terrible in the half court. He couldnt turn the corner on enough guys. His shot mechanics are still terrible. So few guy in this world can D up, and most of them are NBA vets. I'd be scared as a Lakers fan to see what happens in game 50 this season. Can he get to the lane in the half court? Is he not even trying to take a covered jumper because of his hitch? The shot is one of the last things I'm concerned about, and it's overblown IMO. In fact, I think most of his weaknesses are really exaggerated around here. He's getting his legs, and needs to get his conditioning in order. He's shown that he can do a little bit of everything so far this Summer. i think ball has the talent to be a great player, the qiestion is does he have the work ethic and the killer instinct to take over a game and carry a team... if the team gets down 8 or 10 points can he pit them on their back, i saw him quit when they got down against kentucky... obviousky wont happen year 1 maybe not even year 2... and for the record i have the same questions with kp, how is going to play with melo off the team and everyone is looking at him

No disagreements there. I know it's only Summer League, but I saw Lonzo play with a great sense of court awareness and just knowing what the situation was. We'll see if if carries over into the regular season. I just disagree with the critics that harp on his shooting mechanics, yes the hitch creates a slower motion, but he's not ever going to be a guy that hoists up a contested shot, I don't think that's in his DNA, his preference is always going to be to move the ball to someone else for an easier shot, which is what Lavar also said recently. The thing I'm most looking forward to is seeing if Lonzo can help a guy like Brandon Ingram reach his true potential. It wouldn't surprise me to see Ingram get closer to 20PPG and a contender for most improved.

In comment 13531417 Deej said:

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Horny should feel free to bench him at will for not executing the schemes. Enough babying. Biggest issue on this team after overall talent/athleticism (heh) is lack of accountability.

Easier said than done. Blows up the entire locker room and team. Knicks went down this path. Now they just need to get the trade done.

not as easy as just sending him to Houston. The Knicks aren't taking back longer term deals (why the fuck should they?) so either he hopes Houston finds someone to dance with them or you tell him he can expand his list or enjoy MSG.

In comment 13531468 TyreeHelmet said:

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In comment 13531417 Deej said: Quote: Horny should feel free to bench him at will for not executing the schemes. Enough babying. Biggest issue on this team after overall talent/athleticism (heh) is lack of accountability. Easier said than done. Blows up the entire locker room and team. Knicks went down this path. Now they just need to get the trade done.

Absolutely. But I think it gets a lot easier if he said he doesnt want to be incorporated into the team, and his teammates know it. It even gives KP some room to lead. Coaches should take him aside and say "look, we are trying to build a winning environment, and we cant have anyone just bucking the scheme. If Melo, or Jo, or you wont fight thru a screen or hit the cutter, there have to be consequences. Or else Willy, and Frank, and everyone else will come to believe that you can do whatever you want."

I don't even know where to begin, but this is hysterical:
Link - ( New Window )

Gotta credit Bob Raissman there, Chuck.

In comment 13531470 DanMetroMan said:

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not as easy as just sending him to Houston. The Knicks aren't taking back longer term deals (why the fuck should they?) so either he hopes Houston finds someone to dance with them or you tell him he can expand his list or enjoy MSG.

Totally. People are acting like the Knicks have no leverage here. If Melo is going to be a distraction in the clubhouse suspend him for conduct detrimental to the team. This is par for the course for Melo, he pressured the deal to get him here in the first place. (When we gave up far too many assets) If we let him force our hand to take junk on the other end I guess that's par for the course for the Knicks but maybe the fact that this team has zero chance to compete this year can force them to actually look to the long term for once. Melo has been a great player in the league, but he also looks like a baby time and time again. Even this whole Olympics Melo is the best BS! So you don't know how to nurture players that aren't stars? You don't know how to share the ball with players that don't have your skills? Grow up.

"Fuck you too" as Pacino once said.

But we all know it's gonna be a long slog to respectability, that we'll need to get lucky in the lottery, and that we can't take on any older guys who screw up both the cap and the tank.

If Mills and Perry recognize that they won't do something foolish in a Melo trade. If they do fuck that trade up, we'll know that we're back in same old, same old.

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Mills and Perry both emphasized the need to have young, athletic players on the team. As opposed to recruiting or trading for old, non-athletic players?

Rose and Noah, fuckwits. Actually, about a 20 year history of the Knicks favoring skill over youth and athleticism.

Then he criticized Mills for not taking a dump on Jackson. Then for not saying they're desperate to be rid of Melo (killing any value).

The rest is a staggeringly mean salvo. Which the whole league will assume is straight from Phil's mouth. This article should prevent Phil from getting another job in the NBA ever again. Including broadcasting.

Also, a mere 11 years off on Knight's age. I bet he's thinking of Brevin Knight.

In comment 13531489 Enzo said:

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I don't even know where to begin, but this is hysterical: Link - ( New Window )

Thats the first Rosen article where I actually agreed with some of his points. Still has some rambling idiotic statements, but he was actually correct with some.

Who the hell pays this guy? And what's the over under on how many Knicks game it takes Phil to chime in?

He didn't want to leave, but at least the relationship wasn't poison to the point where they might have been able to get him to add some teams to his list. If Phil didn't fuck this up from the very start with the NTC, and then again by moronically thinking he could push him out just by being publicly mean to him, they wouldn't be in this situation.

Whether they pay him to stay home or not, the Knicks completely fuck up asset management yet again. He doesn't have as much value as some people think, but now because of how this played out, he has even less.

In comment 13531548 Ten Ton Hammer said:

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He didn't want to leave, but at least the relationship wasn't poison to the point where they might have been able to get him to add some teams to his list. If Phil didn't fuck this up from the very start with the NTC, and then again by moronically thinking he could push him out just by being publicly mean to him, they wouldn't be in this situation. Whether they pay him to stay home or not, the Knicks completely fuck up asset management yet again. He doesn't have as much value as some people think, but now because of how this played out, he has even less.

Phil is gone. Melo could easily come back to the fold if he wanted to. This is about getting to play with Chris Paul.

one bad week. This could have and should have been handled privately if there was any adult supervision in MSG. I'd blame everyone too if I were him, not just Phil. The whole situation was comical and allowed to run on way too long.

He owes us to be professional on and off the court. If he is not then the remedy is to sit him. No star treatment. If he is really disruptive then suspend him or don't dress him.

They let him run the team the whole time he was here.

I strongly doubt he was running the team. If he was, Woodson would probably still be the coach and they would have drafted Josh Selby in 2011.

Wouldn't run the triangle. Pitched fits over picks. Jackson was the only one who stood up to him.

And nobody wanted to run the triangle. Not even the coach.

In comment 13531616 Phil in LA said:

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Wouldn't run the triangle. Pitched fits over picks. Jackson was the only one who stood up to him.

This seems pretty close to the truth.

Melo has been a pain in the ass this whole time too. It takes two or in this case 3-4 to tango. If Melo hadn't been a pain in the ass we wouldn't be where we are now-- fucked, as usual. Can't trade melo anywhere because he's only allowing one team to play and we can't play the guy. So... great... tell melo to either expand the list and or tell the rockets to pony up something not awful for a return and if we can't deal him, shut up and play. Be a professional there melo. No D or effort? No play.

But it sure as hell looks like melo really really really pissed off phil jackson. Something set off jackson. The guy went nuts with a scorched earth social media crusade against melo. Why? Don't tell me it was simply to get melo to accept a trade. There was more to this.

they should have no problem telling Melo he can either A, light a fire under his agents to arrange a deal that's good for the Knicks, or B, the Knicks will be happy to pay him to stay home. Fuck letting him bully the Knicks into a crap deal