You let Jackson make the 1st round pick and he picks Frank whose main strength over other possible picks is he plays the triangle. Then you fire Jackson a few days later. You interview your top candidate to be your GM but the deal doesn't go through because you don't let him pick his own assistant. Then a few days later, you get rid of your assistant GM who was one of the reasons the other guy. Then You use most of your available salary CAP on a player a few days before you hire a GM
All these happen within a few short weeks. To me, the definition of stupidity
RE: They wanted an Asst. GM who was better at punching the ball in
Point guard.
I don't believe he was drafted only because he fit the triangle.
He is above average defender with good length and can develop into a top pg.
Read in more than a few places that Frank was more capable of playing the triangle than either Smith or Monk. Whether or not that's true is only part of the picture. If the team was going to get rid of Jackson, do it and find his replacement in time for the new guy to draft his player. Maybe it's Frank and maybe not. It's stupid to let Jackson make the pick and then fire him a few days later
News flash -- if you can play well in the triangle you can play well in any system. For that matter most NBA systems are dependent on one simple pre-exquisite-- talent. You either can or can't play.
Why was KP or Gomez drafted? Triangle? Doesn't matter.
Read in more than a few places that Frank was more capable of playing the triangle than either Smith or Monk. Whether or not that's true is only part of the picture. If the team was going to get rid of Jackson, do it and find his replacement in time for the new guy to draft his player. Maybe it's Frank and maybe not. It's stupid to let Jackson make the pick and then fire him a few days later
And we already knew this. Been discussed for three weeks now. Knicks are stupid we know. What does this move have to do with last month?
RE: RE: He was drafted 100% because he fit the triangle
You let Jackson make the 1st round pick and he picks Frank whose main strength over other possible picks is he plays the triangle.
I think this is a myth. First, I don't think he "plays the triangle," because I don't think his French teams ran the triangle. There was a report Jackson liked him because he was suitable for the triangle. But he was also a guy who could do all the normal point guard things: Shoot, penetrate, distribute, and defend.
Second, the scouting reports I read on Ntilikina were that he's got huge potential upside, but also a high chance of being a total bust. I think that's a pretty good description of any 18-year-old prospect, with the exception of generational talents like LeBron and Moses Malone. (Kobe Bryant was 13th overall pick for just that reason.)
So it wasn't a safe pick, but it was a go-for-broke pick. If Frank pans out we're all going to be looking at Phil a little differently for getting them KP and Frank. If he doesn't, then the Knicks are going to keep drafting early and will get to choose another guy.
The comment related to their moving Houston out. Apparently, Griffin did not take the job that was offered because he could not bring his own assistant in and needed to keep Houston. Now, a week later, they're moving Houston out. There's something wrong with the thinking and add that to what happened in the weeks previously, pretty stupid.
With regard to Franj, forget about the triangle. If you're going to replace Jackson, and I'm not arguing against that, its stupid to let him make the pick and then get rid of him a few days later. Equally stupid is using most all of your cap space a few days before you hire a GM.
The comment related to their moving Houston out. Apparently, Griffin did not take the job that was offered because he could not bring his own assistant in and needed to keep Houston. Now, a week later, they're moving Houston out. There's something wrong with the thinking and add that to what happened in the weeks previously, pretty stupid.
With regard to Franj, forget about the triangle. If you're going to replace Jackson, and I'm not arguing against that, its stupid to let him make the pick and then get rid of him a few days later. Equally stupid is using most all of your cap space a few days before you hire a GM.
Though Houston's replacement has ties to the Knicks which made the move palatable for Dolan. Griffin probably wanted people completely outside of the organization.
they are obviously letting Perry bring in some of his people. Maybe Griffin wanted to clean house completely, or maybe the report on that was wrong, i cant remember who reported it, but even if it was woj it could have been wrong.
RE: He was drafted because he distributes the ball
Clarence Gaines may be let go. Gaines, as you all know, is the scout who advised Jackson to draft KP and who told Jackson that KP should actually be the #1 pick. Not that I agree with that assessment. Not easy to see KP over Towns.
knock on Gaines (and credit for the KP pick) but I suspect Kevin Wilson had more to do with that pick than he's been given credit for. Gaines also advocated for Tony Wroten and Ndour and neither did squad. The Knicks haven't exactly hit on a lot of "surprising" talent during Gaines time here and the talent that they have (Kuz, Willy, KP) all are Euro's, Kuz in particular has been on the Knicks radar for.. 7 years. Not going to lose much sleep over Gaines being gone (if that's even the case).
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Derrick Rose could sign a minimum deal with the Cavaliers today.
This is the problem with the NBA. You have a cap, and then vets line up to sign on with the best teams for no money. So these great teams can add the depth that should be lacking from being so top heavy salary-wise.
Look, I hate Rose as NY's starting PG. But as your 6th man, leading the 2nd unit offense? I'd love it. The guy can still make a ton of offense out of nothing, and can be sheltered defensively against backups. And if you need him to start 25 games due to injury? That's fine.
SB Nation NBA @SBNationNBA 9s9 seconds ago
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Derrick Rose could sign a minimum deal with the Cavaliers today.
This is the problem with the NBA. You have a cap, and then vets line up to sign on with the best teams for no money. So these great teams can add the depth that should be lacking from being so top heavy salary-wise.
Look, I hate Rose as NY's starting PG. But as your 6th man, leading the 2nd unit offense? I'd love it. The guy can still make a ton of offense out of nothing, and can be sheltered defensively against backups. And if you need him to start 25 games due to injury? That's fine.
Yup it goes beyond having a superstar. Players line up to sign with the Warriors/Cavs for prices well below what a "normal" team can sign them for. You don't see the best team in baseball getting a 4th starter for the league minimum because he "wants to win a ring". Did the new CBA close up the Deron Williams "loophole"? I forget. It's pretty annoying every season where veterans ask for buyouts to join contenders.
windbag on espn says cavs have no interest in melo
But someone named Burt Steele on twitter, who apparently legit has ties to Morey is saying the Melo deal is done and he will be a rocket by 5:45 tomorrow.
I guess they made their run at Kyrie and got nowhere.
But someone named Burt Steele on twitter, who apparently legit has ties to Morey is saying the Melo deal is done and he will be a rocket by 5:45 tomorrow.
ha. This guy Steele tweets for the first time in over 2 years and it's about Melo. No idea what his deal is, but who was even following this guy on twitter to even notice this?
But someone named Burt Steele on twitter, who apparently legit has ties to Morey is saying the Melo deal is done and he will be a rocket by 5:45 tomorrow.
he apparently has called other stuff, and he apparently gets moreys cpurtside seats at the rpckets games...
But someone named Burt Steele on twitter, who apparently legit has ties to Morey is saying the Melo deal is done and he will be a rocket by 5:45 tomorrow.
ha. This guy Steele tweets for the first time in over 2 years and it's about Melo. No idea what his deal is, but who was even following this guy on twitter to even notice this?
he apparently called the chris paul move, and a couple of football stuff with the texans
a win now piece and a future piece. I mean for the Knicks sure it makes sense because the win now piece is a guy we want to dump anyway. But why would MINN give up Wiggins+ for irving. Irving is a better player right now then wiggins and will probably end up the better player but not by some wide margin. Plus they want more then that?
I think the Knicks will take back a shitty salary from Houston
the Knicks somehow get leverage over Cleveland because landing Melo might get Lebron to commit for another season.
I think the driving force here is that Lebron thought he was gonna make the banana boat happen, and Paul got traded. In retrospect, CLE should have traded Kyrie for Paul, and Love for Melo+. Even if you dont like either deal on its face, Lebron would stick around for Melo and Paul.
I think this is going to be a very ugly year in Cleveland, though they'll still probably do very well in the playoffs.
but get back 2 first rounders. They will be late firsts of course, but it's better than nothing. That contract will blow though.
the problem with that is the entire league was asking for two firsts just to take back Anderson's deal - without including a player of Melo's caliber in return. I get it that Melo is somewhat diminished and his NTC impacts his market, but if Houston is not willing to include their 4th or 5th most valuable assets (guys like Capela or Gordon) for what will almost certainly become their 3rd best player, there's no reason to engage with them at this time.
is a deal with Houston, I fear it's a total giveaway. In fact, it could be worse than that - they could end up with negative pieces.
I fully expect negative pieces, in fact I think Ryan Anderson is a Knick when this happens.
I've already begun talking myself into Anderson. It's only 3 more years! His "skill" will age well! Surround KP with shooters and he will blossom!
Watch the Knicks somehow "negotiate" themselves swap rights or some nonsense with Houston - as if we have any chance of being better than them anytime soon.
would be the greatest "Big Three" of shitty contracts in NBA history, so we'd have that going for us. But I agree, if we get enough first round picks, it's almost worth it.
would be the greatest "Big Three" of shitty contracts in NBA history, so we'd have that going for us. But I agree, if we get enough first round picks, it's almost worth it.
Unfair to group them all. Noah's contract is an abomination. Anderson is significantly overpaid. Hardaway is probably overpaid by no more than $10 million, and an argument can easily be made that he isnt overpaid at all per the market for mid-20s wings the last 2 years like Crabbe and Turner and several others (my feeling is that they were all overpaid).
In 2 offseasons it wont hurt much to stretch Noah if you need half his salary to make a trade. Hopefully, Hardaway's remaining 1+1 deal will not be toxic and may even have positive trade value if you need his $$ to sign someone.
trade Melo for expirings or if they keep him this year and he opts out, they'll have good cap room next summer. If not - and if they give KP a max deal, I don't see them having significant cap space anytime soon.
As long as they are getting more first round picks. He lines up with Noah, thomas and lee. They will all expire same time. If you take Anderson without multiple firsts or young players then it's a problem.
RE: RE: I think the Knicks will take back a shitty salary from Houston
trade Melo for expirings or if they keep him this year and he opts out, they'll have good cap room next summer. If not - and if they give KP a max deal, I don't see them having significant cap space anytime soon.
Still, I was surprised on Sunday evening to get a call from someone who has known Anthony personally for more than a decade. And when I asked why Portland wasnt among Anthonys preferred destinations, I didnt get a diatribe on basketball, or the rainy weather, or how he needs to know the organization can compete for a title. Instead, I got a pleasant surprise. Melos a doting father, the person said. Hes a great dad. Hes present and he loves that kid. Theres no way hes going to leave that little boy in New York and be 3,000 miles away from him. 4 hours ago via Oregonian
Hey Melo, there are a plethora of other teams much closer to NY than Cle or Houston. Washington is right down the road.
Simmons doesn't usually do this unless he really knows something
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Have a scoop - OKC and Carmelo are officially circling each other. OKC's Troy Weaver recruited Melo to Cuse + has known him since DMV days.
Simmons doesn't usually do this unless he really knows something
@BillSimmons
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Have a scoop - OKC and Carmelo are officially circling each other. OKC's Troy Weaver recruited Melo to Cuse + has known him since DMV days.
Anderson and has a p/o next year he could exercise. They can't trade their pick for a few years which sucks but I'd take back Kanter, Ferguson and fillers. Any shot they can get Adams?
I dunno about that. Ferguson, Jeremi Grant (quietly not a bad player, only 23), Kanter's contract is more appealing than anything Houston has (+ he's still a 25 year old big with proven positive qualities), Abrines might be useful.
We essentially have a better Kanter in Hernangomez
Anderson and has a p/o next year he could exercise. They can't trade their pick for a few years which sucks but I'd take back Kanter, Ferguson and fillers. Any shot they can get Adams?
No chance. Adams is a huge piece of what they do. They would be nuts to give him up for Melo. He (along with Russy) is their heart and soul.
I dunno about that. Ferguson, Jeremi Grant (quietly not a bad player, only 23), Kanter's contract is more appealing than anything Houston has (+ he's still a 25 year old big with proven positive qualities), Abrines might be useful.
forgot about Ferguson. Maybe you can spin off Kanter to a contender at some point.
I'd like to see it happen just to see Melo and Russ fight over the ball. But having Russ, Melo, PG, and Adams out there with whoever would be fun to watch.
Doesnt make a lot of sense to me. 3.5 hours is far away. There is no "drop in" 3.5 hour flight (each way).
I dont begrudge a guy for not wanting to be away from his kid. But the POR vs. HOU thing seems like BS to me. He's willing to go to HOU to play with Paul, not because it is near his kid. If he was pushing CLE, BOS, BK, PHI, WAS I'd buy that a bit more -- those are places where you can get to NY fast.
I dunno about that. Ferguson, Jeremi Grant (quietly not a bad player, only 23), Kanter's contract is more appealing than anything Houston has (+ he's still a 25 year old big with proven positive qualities), Abrines might be useful.
forgot about Ferguson. Maybe you can spin off Kanter to a contender at some point.
I'd like to see it happen just to see Melo and Russ fight over the ball. But having Russ, Melo, PG, and Adams out there with whoever would be fun to watch.
I bet they'd have to find a third team to take Kanter. I don't think itd be that hard but who knows
Kurt Helin @basketballtalk
Problem with Carmelo to OKC rumors: going to need a third team because Knicks won't want Kanter. Same challenge as Rockets/Anderson.
Kurt Helin @basketballtalk
Problem with Carmelo to OKC rumors: going to need a third team because Knicks won't want Kanter. Same challenge as Rockets/Anderson.
One would think that Kanter is less objectionable than Anderson because the deal is cheaper by year and also shorter.
much rather Kanter just based on the contracts.....
and Ferguson isnt a bad get, at least he was a first rounder. Thing is other then him they dont really have much to offer. That said if HOU is still offering us Hartenstein and crap then id rather Ferguson and Kanter's shorter contract.
If nothing else maybe this helps get us some leverage with HOU.
he's not just a bad defender. He's so bad that he basically makes an offense. All you have to do is get his feet moving and you'll get elite points/possession.
RE: much rather Kanter just based on the contracts.....
and Ferguson isnt a bad get, at least he was a first rounder. Thing is other then him they dont really have much to offer. That said if HOU is still offering us Hartenstein and crap then id rather Ferguson and Kanter's shorter contract.
If nothing else maybe this helps get us some leverage with HOU.
They have more than Houston. Abrines shot 38% from 3, .096 WS/48 as a 23 year old rookie last year, McDermott has been disappointing but still career 39% from 3, Dakari Johnson is a legit 7 footer who impressed scouts in the d league, Jeremi Grant quietly shot 37% from 3, .098 WS/48 and Ferguson. I think their assets are "significantly" more appealing especially if Qi is a total no-go.
he's not just a bad defender. He's so bad that he basically makes an offense. All you have to do is get his feet moving and you'll get elite points/possession.
I think just by virtue of his age/one less year he's more appealing than Anderson if they are hoping to move one of them and it's not crazy to believe Kanter opts out after the season. It could go either way but there is that chance.
on the eye test in PHI-NYK games. Live body, blocks and 3s. Could round into a really nice, bigger 3&D guy. Would also eat into Lance's minutes which is a plus.
Downside of him is that he needs to get paid soon.
Maybe we'll nab Capela in this trade after all? We'd have to pay him soon, but Capela and Frank would give us the backbone of an excellent defensive team in years to come.
i guess. McDermott is not good, sure he shot 39% from 3, but that is all he does. I do like Abrines a bit and ive always liked Grant (Cuse!), but i dont expect either to turn into much. Again HOU is offering crap so of course id like Ferguson and a couple of these guys more then Hartenstein.
he's their interior D and PnR partner for the guards. The could sooner move Ariza and Gordon than Capela IMO.
In any event, if we got Capela in a trade, I'd move him to a 3rd team for futures. It would be tempting to field Capela, Frank, and KP and hope a super D emerges, but my gut tells me that Capela is not good enough to eat your cap. You get a Capela after you're capped out IMO. I think there are a bunch of teams who would move some real pieces for Capela. Maybe could get a 2016 draftee like Maker, Ingram, Brown, etc. with NY adding or getting another piece depending on the guy.
but get him away from Dantoni and I think his production takes a dip. Will be interesting to see how Morey handles his next contract. Do they pay him or do they look for a random cheaper young/bouncy big to fill the role.
but get him away from Dantoni and I think his production takes a dip. Will be interesting to see how Morey handles his next contract. Do they pay him or do they look for a random cheaper young/bouncy big to fill the role.
I think they're at the stage where you cant manage the cap anyway, so they're gonna pay Capela. But maybe he doesnt need the max.
but get him away from Dantoni and I think his production takes a dip. Will be interesting to see how Morey handles his next contract. Do they pay him or do they look for a random cheaper young/bouncy big to fill the role.
I think they're at the stage where you cant manage the cap anyway, so they're gonna pay Capela. But maybe he doesnt need the max.
This was probably the plan previously but I would think the team being for sale throws a wrench in it. I would think a new buyer wouldn't want to buy a team paying the luxury tax (or at least their preference is not to be)
RE: So OKC and HOU are fine buy POR is too far away?
Doesnt make a lot of sense to me. 3.5 hours is far away. There is no "drop in" 3.5 hour flight (each way).
I dont begrudge a guy for not wanting to be away from his kid. But the POR vs. HOU thing seems like BS to me. He's willing to go to HOU to play with Paul, not because it is near his kid. If he was pushing CLE, BOS, BK, PHI, WAS I'd buy that a bit more -- those are places where you can get to NY fast.
Seattle and portland are pretty much the end of the world, to be fair. OKC and Houston are quite literally half the distance.
RE: RE: So OKC and HOU are fine buy POR is too far away?
Doesnt make a lot of sense to me. 3.5 hours is far away. There is no "drop in" 3.5 hour flight (each way).
I dont begrudge a guy for not wanting to be away from his kid. But the POR vs. HOU thing seems like BS to me. He's willing to go to HOU to play with Paul, not because it is near his kid. If he was pushing CLE, BOS, BK, PHI, WAS I'd buy that a bit more -- those are places where you can get to NY fast.
Seattle and portland are pretty much the end of the world, to be fair. OKC and Houston are quite literally half the distance.
Flying it is 3.5 hours vs. 5 hours. Add in travel time to/from airport and waiting around pre/post flight and it's more like 5.5 vs. 7.
It's not a very big difference. If his kid stays in NY, how many times more would he see his kid as a Rocket vs. as a Trailblazer?
i don't know what to make of this. Another questionable source
Doesnt make a lot of sense to me. 3.5 hours is far away. There is no "drop in" 3.5 hour flight (each way).
I dont begrudge a guy for not wanting to be away from his kid. But the POR vs. HOU thing seems like BS to me. He's willing to go to HOU to play with Paul, not because it is near his kid. If he was pushing CLE, BOS, BK, PHI, WAS I'd buy that a bit more -- those are places where you can get to NY fast.
Seattle and portland are pretty much the end of the world, to be fair. OKC and Houston are quite literally half the distance.
Flying it is 3.5 hours vs. 5 hours. Add in travel time to/from airport and waiting around pre/post flight and it's more like 5.5 vs. 7.
It's not a very big difference. If his kid stays in NY, how many times more would he see his kid as a Rocket vs. as a Trailblazer?
His son is 10 (I think). Maybe he likes being able to chat with him after games and playing most his games on the West Coast would prevent that?
RE: RE: i don't know what to make of this. Another questionable source
the deal would already have to be done otherwise why would the cavs say no to another team making a. id if it could be a better offer?
Totally BS. I called him out on twitter and he got defensive. He suggested Ainge doesn't want to bother with talks "so far" down the road with the Knicks. Totally defies logic, then I said I guess we should hear a done deal shortly and he said these things can still fall apart... so Ainge would sit out negotiations on a deal that isn't close enough to being "done"? lol everyone wants their day in the sun.
RE: RE: RE: i don't know what to make of this. Another questionable source
the deal would already have to be done otherwise why would the cavs say no to another team making a. id if it could be a better offer?
Totally BS. I called him out on twitter and he got defensive. He suggested Ainge doesn't want to bother with talks "so far" down the road with the Knicks. Totally defies logic, then I said I guess we should hear a done deal shortly and he said these things can still fall apart... so Ainge would sit out negotiations on a deal that isn't close enough to being "done"? lol everyone wants their day in the sun.
this is my thinking, no team will tell another team dont make an offer already talking to another team unless that deal is basically done
RE: RE: RE: RE: So OKC and HOU are fine buy POR is too far away?
His son is 10 (I think). Maybe he likes being able to chat with him after games and playing most his games on the West Coast would prevent that?
You're overthinking it. Houston/OKC games end at 10 or 10:30 ET. He's not trying to push himself to an Eastern team.
The simple explanation is probably the correct explanation -- he wants to play with Paul and can be talking into Russ + PG13. Less so the Portland guys. The kid thing is likely an excuse (given that he's not trying to force himself on a north east team)
Not an offer that's good for the Knicks, but one that's really comparable to what the Cavs could get from others.
I'd say Hernangomez, Frank N., and an unprotected pick next year. I'm not crazy about that trade for the Knicks, but I can't see the Cavs settling for anything less than that...or likely even that.
RE: Knicks fans, what do you think is a truly fair offer for Irving?
Not an offer that's good for the Knicks, but one that's really comparable to what the Cavs could get from others.
I'd say Hernangomez, Frank N., and an unprotected pick next year. I'm not crazy about that trade for the Knicks, but I can't see the Cavs settling for anything less than that...or likely even that.
if i am the cavs:
melo, willy and 2 1sts for irving
RE: Knicks fans, what do you think is a truly fair offer for Irving?
Not an offer that's good for the Knicks, but one that's really comparable to what the Cavs could get from others.
I'd say Hernangomez, Frank N., and an unprotected pick next year. I'm not crazy about that trade for the Knicks, but I can't see the Cavs settling for anything less than that...or likely even that.
I saw somewhere today (forget who reported it) that they are looking for 2 veterans and a young asset. I'd start them off with an offer of Melo, Courtney Lee, and a first round pick. They would have to send back Shumpert and Frye's contracts to make salaries match along with Irving.
The only issue with them bringing in Melo is that the fit with him, Lebron, Love, and Thompson is awkward. They would have to find a new home for Love, perhaps they could send him to Phoenix for a package centered around Bledsoe.
If Lebron leaves and Melo also opts out next year they quickly become awful. To me they should ask for Lee, Willy and KP, but the Knicks won't go there. Perhaps substitute Frank N. and another #1 for KP.
(We'd sure have been better off keeping Lopez than taking on Rose and Noah last year, huh?)
Melo, Lee, 1st round pick (hopefully top 6 protected) for Irving, Frye and Shump. Lee could actually thrive in Cleveland and Melo could bring some scoring that they lose with Kyrie leaving. Frye I actually do not mind at all, he has one year left at about 7 million and is a good player off the bench. Shump is getting paid a bit more but still under contract for only two more seasons.
Does Melo and Lee plus a 1st rounder take Cleveland over the top? Probably not but at least they get an asset in return. I am not sure if this deal gets it done, they probably will want two first round picks or a 1st and Willy
To me Irving is in the upper echelon of NBA talents.
Cleveland would be silly to give him up for an aging Melo, a decent shooting guard, and a #1. They likely can get a bidding war going between several teams and get a lot more than that.
Suns are reportedly willing to offer Eric Bledsoe and Josh Jackson+
Not an offer that's good for the Knicks, but one that's really comparable to what the Cavs could get from others.
I'd say Hernangomez, Frank N., and an unprotected pick next year. I'm not crazy about that trade for the Knicks, but I can't see the Cavs settling for anything less than that...or likely even that.
Here are the 3 assets I'm willing to move...
- Melo
- Frank
- PROTECTED 2018 first round pick (somewhere between 5-8)
There's no way I make the 2018 pick unprotected. I also would be strongly against giving up Willy.
watch us just end up with the harkless, Leonard, Hartenstein crap we thought we were getting a week or so ago.
Can't wait to hear people talk up Leonard and how he was a high pick...6 years ago. Blazers fans absolutely despise him. They talk about him the way we used to talk about Fat Ray/Jeffries.
eply
[]_Quetzalcoatlus_ 11 points 6 hours ago
Blazers fan jumping in on the top comment to let y'all know: Rice is our recently fired color announcer. He was let go because he was getting old and saying some wacky shit on TV. As far as I know, he's never broken a story before.
Maybe he's right, but I would take it with a grain of salt.
HAVE to include Leonard, fwiw. They have plenty of other salary filler to make it work.
Just saying Leonard flat sucks. Blazers fans talk about him like he's truly garbage and 38% from the field at 7'1 is tough to pull off...If you can't get burn 5 years into your career you likely aren't very good.
him, but most assume they want to dump a bit more salary then just Harkless if they are going to take on Anderson. Who knows though.
Id be fine with Ariza coming here, we should 100% be able to trade him to a contender during the season. To be honest id rather trade him right away, but either way he is an asset.
we better end up with more then Hartenstein. EIther HOU is throwing in Qi and/or POR is throwing in another asset. If we get a couple extra assets for taking leonard im ok with that. Let him sit on the bench until we need the capspace and then stretch him. But im only taking him if we are getting more youth/picks to take him.
let the record show the market spoke pretty clearly on Rose's value in today's NBA. He's getting closer and closer to his destiny of leading the Chinese league in scoring. It's telling that an older player with his own lengthy injury history (George Hill) got a ton more money.
huh? why?
OKAY Sarcasm off
All these happen within a few short weeks. To me, the definition of stupidity
Haha well played
Many analysts believe his skill set would work well in the triangle offense. But Frank has never actually played in the triangle.
Link - ( New Window )
I don't believe he was drafted only because he fit the triangle.
He is above average defender with good length and can develop into a top pg.
I understand doubt and cynicism with the Knicks, but this seems like it's a positive.
To be fair, virtually EVERYONE thought Okafor was the superior choice at the time.
he was a projected top 10 player, he was not drafted just because of the triangle
Why was KP or Gomez drafted? Triangle? Doesn't matter.
And we already knew this. Been discussed for three weeks now. Knicks are stupid we know. What does this move have to do with last month?
Quote:
hopefully its another Phil Jackson mistake that works out well like when he thought Okafor was a better player than Porzingis but the 76ers saved us.
To be fair, virtually EVERYONE thought Okafor was the superior choice at the time.
Phil wanted Okafor over Towns as well and "nobody" thought he was a superior choice
Second, the scouting reports I read on Ntilikina were that he's got huge potential upside, but also a high chance of being a total bust. I think that's a pretty good description of any 18-year-old prospect, with the exception of generational talents like LeBron and Moses Malone. (Kobe Bryant was 13th overall pick for just that reason.)
So it wasn't a safe pick, but it was a go-for-broke pick. If Frank pans out we're all going to be looking at Phil a little differently for getting them KP and Frank. If he doesn't, then the Knicks are going to keep drafting early and will get to choose another guy.
Look, the Knicks cant quit Houston competently. You just have to accept it.
Remember when the NBA made the Allan Houston clause to bail out the Knicks, and they used it on Jerome Williams?
With regard to Franj, forget about the triangle. If you're going to replace Jackson, and I'm not arguing against that, its stupid to let him make the pick and then get rid of him a few days later. Equally stupid is using most all of your cap space a few days before you hire a GM.
With regard to Franj, forget about the triangle. If you're going to replace Jackson, and I'm not arguing against that, its stupid to let him make the pick and then get rid of him a few days later. Equally stupid is using most all of your cap space a few days before you hire a GM.
Though Houston's replacement has ties to the Knicks which made the move palatable for Dolan. Griffin probably wanted people completely outside of the organization.
Exactly.
I'd be absolutely stunned if Houston is "gone". Re-assigned is almost certainly what happened.
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Derrick Rose could sign a minimum deal with the Cavaliers today.
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Derrick Rose could sign a minimum deal with the Cavaliers today.
This is the problem with the NBA. You have a cap, and then vets line up to sign on with the best teams for no money. So these great teams can add the depth that should be lacking from being so top heavy salary-wise.
Look, I hate Rose as NY's starting PG. But as your 6th man, leading the 2nd unit offense? I'd love it. The guy can still make a ton of offense out of nothing, and can be sheltered defensively against backups. And if you need him to start 25 games due to injury? That's fine.
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SB Nation NBA @SBNationNBA 9s9 seconds ago
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Derrick Rose could sign a minimum deal with the Cavaliers today.
This is the problem with the NBA. You have a cap, and then vets line up to sign on with the best teams for no money. So these great teams can add the depth that should be lacking from being so top heavy salary-wise.
Look, I hate Rose as NY's starting PG. But as your 6th man, leading the 2nd unit offense? I'd love it. The guy can still make a ton of offense out of nothing, and can be sheltered defensively against backups. And if you need him to start 25 games due to injury? That's fine.
Yup it goes beyond having a superstar. Players line up to sign with the Warriors/Cavs for prices well below what a "normal" team can sign them for. You don't see the best team in baseball getting a 4th starter for the league minimum because he "wants to win a ring". Did the new CBA close up the Deron Williams "loophole"? I forget. It's pretty annoying every season where veterans ask for buyouts to join contenders.
woj says cavs want a win now piece and anotger piece for future for irving..
why would the qolves do that? they just signed teague. and does wiggins for irving really make them better?
ha. This guy Steele tweets for the first time in over 2 years and it's about Melo. No idea what his deal is, but who was even following this guy on twitter to even notice this?
he apparently has called other stuff, and he apparently gets moreys cpurtside seats at the rpckets games...
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But someone named Burt Steele on twitter, who apparently legit has ties to Morey is saying the Melo deal is done and he will be a rocket by 5:45 tomorrow.
ha. This guy Steele tweets for the first time in over 2 years and it's about Melo. No idea what his deal is, but who was even following this guy on twitter to even notice this?
he apparently called the chris paul move, and a couple of football stuff with the texans
I think the driving force here is that Lebron thought he was gonna make the banana boat happen, and Paul got traded. In retrospect, CLE should have traded Kyrie for Paul, and Love for Melo+. Even if you dont like either deal on its face, Lebron would stick around for Melo and Paul.
I think this is going to be a very ugly year in Cleveland, though they'll still probably do very well in the playoffs.
I fully expect negative pieces, in fact I think Ryan Anderson is a Knick when this happens.
the problem with that is the entire league was asking for two firsts just to take back Anderson's deal - without including a player of Melo's caliber in return. I get it that Melo is somewhat diminished and his NTC impacts his market, but if Houston is not willing to include their 4th or 5th most valuable assets (guys like Capela or Gordon) for what will almost certainly become their 3rd best player, there's no reason to engage with them at this time.
i think if the knicks were going to take nderson it would be done already
I'd take it. Don't they have two other team's firsts in 2018?
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is a deal with Houston, I fear it's a total giveaway. In fact, it could be worse than that - they could end up with negative pieces.
I fully expect negative pieces, in fact I think Ryan Anderson is a Knick when this happens.
Sad thing is the Knicks cap situation is screwed the next 3 years regardless. Might as well take on Anderson with picks/assets.
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is a deal with Houston, I fear it's a total giveaway. In fact, it could be worse than that - they could end up with negative pieces.
I fully expect negative pieces, in fact I think Ryan Anderson is a Knick when this happens.
I've already begun talking myself into Anderson. It's only 3 more years! His "skill" will age well! Surround KP with shooters and he will blossom!
Watch the Knicks somehow "negotiate" themselves swap rights or some nonsense with Houston - as if we have any chance of being better than them anytime soon.
It sounds like a character from Anchorman.
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In comment 13537314 Enzo said:
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is a deal with Houston, I fear it's a total giveaway. In fact, it could be worse than that - they could end up with negative pieces.
I fully expect negative pieces, in fact I think Ryan Anderson is a Knick when this happens.
Sad thing is the Knicks cap situation is screwed the next 3 years regardless. Might as well take on Anderson with picks/assets.
really not as bad as you make it out to be..
Unfair to group them all. Noah's contract is an abomination. Anderson is significantly overpaid. Hardaway is probably overpaid by no more than $10 million, and an argument can easily be made that he isnt overpaid at all per the market for mid-20s wings the last 2 years like Crabbe and Turner and several others (my feeling is that they were all overpaid).
In 2 offseasons it wont hurt much to stretch Noah if you need half his salary to make a trade. Hopefully, Hardaway's remaining 1+1 deal will not be toxic and may even have positive trade value if you need his $$ to sign someone.
i dont really want to believe him, but he doesnt seem like the type of poster who just makes shit up to get clicks or followers...
That being said, we can get this done without Anderson. Gordon and Ariza can get the money close.
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but get back 2 first rounders. They will be late firsts of course, but it's better than nothing. That contract will blow though.
I'd take it. Don't they have two other team's firsts in 2018?
The Rockets are not owed any firsts. They owe their own pick in 2018. They can't trade their pick until 2020.
oquinn comes off this year..
lance thomas's 4th year is non guaranteed..
i think lee is easily traded if they want. to..
noah is yhe only albatross...
That being said, we can get this done without Anderson. Gordon and Ariza can get the money close.
i believe they also have non guaranteed deal left
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In comment 13537322 djm said:
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but get back 2 first rounders. They will be late firsts of course, but it's better than nothing. That contract will blow though.
I'd take it. Don't they have two other team's firsts in 2018?
The Rockets are not owed any firsts. They owe their own pick in 2018. They can't trade their pick until 2020.
Thanks
Still, I was surprised on Sunday evening to get a call from someone who has known Anthony personally for more than a decade. And when I asked why Portland wasnt among Anthonys preferred destinations, I didnt get a diatribe on basketball, or the rainy weather, or how he needs to know the organization can compete for a title. Instead, I got a pleasant surprise. Melos a doting father, the person said. Hes a great dad. Hes present and he loves that kid. Theres no way hes going to leave that little boy in New York and be 3,000 miles away from him. 4 hours ago via Oregonian
Hey Melo, there are a plethora of other teams much closer to NY than Cle or Houston. Washington is right down the road.
@BillSimmons
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Have a scoop - OKC and Carmelo are officially circling each other. OKC's Troy Weaver recruited Melo to Cuse + has known him since DMV days.
@BillSimmons
Following
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Have a scoop - OKC and Carmelo are officially circling each other. OKC's Troy Weaver recruited Melo to Cuse + has known him since DMV days.
Enes Kanter? Yay?
I dunno about that. Ferguson, Jeremi Grant (quietly not a bad player, only 23), Kanter's contract is more appealing than anything Houston has (+ he's still a 25 year old big with proven positive qualities), Abrines might be useful.
No chance. Adams is a huge piece of what they do. They would be nuts to give him up for Melo. He (along with Russy) is their heart and soul.
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have less to offer than Houston.
I dunno about that. Ferguson, Jeremi Grant (quietly not a bad player, only 23), Kanter's contract is more appealing than anything Houston has (+ he's still a 25 year old big with proven positive qualities), Abrines might be useful.
forgot about Ferguson. Maybe you can spin off Kanter to a contender at some point.
I'd like to see it happen just to see Melo and Russ fight over the ball. But having Russ, Melo, PG, and Adams out there with whoever would be fun to watch.
I dont begrudge a guy for not wanting to be away from his kid. But the POR vs. HOU thing seems like BS to me. He's willing to go to HOU to play with Paul, not because it is near his kid. If he was pushing CLE, BOS, BK, PHI, WAS I'd buy that a bit more -- those are places where you can get to NY fast.
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In comment 13537478 Enzo said:
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have less to offer than Houston.
I dunno about that. Ferguson, Jeremi Grant (quietly not a bad player, only 23), Kanter's contract is more appealing than anything Houston has (+ he's still a 25 year old big with proven positive qualities), Abrines might be useful.
forgot about Ferguson. Maybe you can spin off Kanter to a contender at some point.
I'd like to see it happen just to see Melo and Russ fight over the ball. But having Russ, Melo, PG, and Adams out there with whoever would be fun to watch.
I bet they'd have to find a third team to take Kanter. I don't think itd be that hard but who knows
Problem with Carmelo to OKC rumors: going to need a third team because Knicks won't want Kanter. Same challenge as Rockets/Anderson.
Problem with Carmelo to OKC rumors: going to need a third team because Knicks won't want Kanter. Same challenge as Rockets/Anderson.
One would think that Kanter is less objectionable than Anderson because the deal is cheaper by year and also shorter.
If nothing else maybe this helps get us some leverage with HOU.
If nothing else maybe this helps get us some leverage with HOU.
They have more than Houston. Abrines shot 38% from 3, .096 WS/48 as a 23 year old rookie last year, McDermott has been disappointing but still career 39% from 3, Dakari Johnson is a legit 7 footer who impressed scouts in the d league, Jeremi Grant quietly shot 37% from 3, .098 WS/48 and Ferguson. I think their assets are "significantly" more appealing especially if Qi is a total no-go.
I think just by virtue of his age/one less year he's more appealing than Anderson if they are hoping to move one of them and it's not crazy to believe Kanter opts out after the season. It could go either way but there is that chance.
Downside of him is that he needs to get paid soon.
In any event, if we got Capela in a trade, I'd move him to a 3rd team for futures. It would be tempting to field Capela, Frank, and KP and hope a super D emerges, but my gut tells me that Capela is not good enough to eat your cap. You get a Capela after you're capped out IMO. I think there are a bunch of teams who would move some real pieces for Capela. Maybe could get a 2016 draftee like Maker, Ingram, Brown, etc. with NY adding or getting another piece depending on the guy.
I think they're at the stage where you cant manage the cap anyway, so they're gonna pay Capela. But maybe he doesnt need the max.
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but get him away from Dantoni and I think his production takes a dip. Will be interesting to see how Morey handles his next contract. Do they pay him or do they look for a random cheaper young/bouncy big to fill the role.
I think they're at the stage where you cant manage the cap anyway, so they're gonna pay Capela. But maybe he doesnt need the max.
This was probably the plan previously but I would think the team being for sale throws a wrench in it. I would think a new buyer wouldn't want to buy a team paying the luxury tax (or at least their preference is not to be)
I dont begrudge a guy for not wanting to be away from his kid. But the POR vs. HOU thing seems like BS to me. He's willing to go to HOU to play with Paul, not because it is near his kid. If he was pushing CLE, BOS, BK, PHI, WAS I'd buy that a bit more -- those are places where you can get to NY fast.
Seattle and portland are pretty much the end of the world, to be fair. OKC and Houston are quite literally half the distance.
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Doesnt make a lot of sense to me. 3.5 hours is far away. There is no "drop in" 3.5 hour flight (each way).
I dont begrudge a guy for not wanting to be away from his kid. But the POR vs. HOU thing seems like BS to me. He's willing to go to HOU to play with Paul, not because it is near his kid. If he was pushing CLE, BOS, BK, PHI, WAS I'd buy that a bit more -- those are places where you can get to NY fast.
Seattle and portland are pretty much the end of the world, to be fair. OKC and Houston are quite literally half the distance.
Flying it is 3.5 hours vs. 5 hours. Add in travel time to/from airport and waiting around pre/post flight and it's more like 5.5 vs. 7.
It's not a very big difference. If his kid stays in NY, how many times more would he see his kid as a Rocket vs. as a Trailblazer?
Celtics radio guy - ( New Window )
the deal would already have to be done otherwise why would the cavs say no to another team making a. id if it could be a better offer?
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. Celtics radio guy - ( New Window )
the deal would already have to be done otherwise why would the cavs say no to another team making a. id if it could be a better offer?
The only reason they might prefer to deal with the Knicks and not the Celts is that the Celts are a real threat now and the knicks are not.
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In comment 13537499 Deej said:
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Doesnt make a lot of sense to me. 3.5 hours is far away. There is no "drop in" 3.5 hour flight (each way).
I dont begrudge a guy for not wanting to be away from his kid. But the POR vs. HOU thing seems like BS to me. He's willing to go to HOU to play with Paul, not because it is near his kid. If he was pushing CLE, BOS, BK, PHI, WAS I'd buy that a bit more -- those are places where you can get to NY fast.
Seattle and portland are pretty much the end of the world, to be fair. OKC and Houston are quite literally half the distance.
Flying it is 3.5 hours vs. 5 hours. Add in travel time to/from airport and waiting around pre/post flight and it's more like 5.5 vs. 7.
It's not a very big difference. If his kid stays in NY, how many times more would he see his kid as a Rocket vs. as a Trailblazer?
His son is 10 (I think). Maybe he likes being able to chat with him after games and playing most his games on the West Coast would prevent that?
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. Celtics radio guy - ( New Window )
the deal would already have to be done otherwise why would the cavs say no to another team making a. id if it could be a better offer?
Totally BS. I called him out on twitter and he got defensive. He suggested Ainge doesn't want to bother with talks "so far" down the road with the Knicks. Totally defies logic, then I said I guess we should hear a done deal shortly and he said these things can still fall apart... so Ainge would sit out negotiations on a deal that isn't close enough to being "done"? lol everyone wants their day in the sun.
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In comment 13537750 Strahan91 said:
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. Celtics radio guy - ( New Window )
the deal would already have to be done otherwise why would the cavs say no to another team making a. id if it could be a better offer?
Totally BS. I called him out on twitter and he got defensive. He suggested Ainge doesn't want to bother with talks "so far" down the road with the Knicks. Totally defies logic, then I said I guess we should hear a done deal shortly and he said these things can still fall apart... so Ainge would sit out negotiations on a deal that isn't close enough to being "done"? lol everyone wants their day in the sun.
this is my thinking, no team will tell another team dont make an offer already talking to another team unless that deal is basically done
His son is 10 (I think). Maybe he likes being able to chat with him after games and playing most his games on the West Coast would prevent that?
You're overthinking it. Houston/OKC games end at 10 or 10:30 ET. He's not trying to push himself to an Eastern team.
The simple explanation is probably the correct explanation -- he wants to play with Paul and can be talking into Russ + PG13. Less so the Portland guys. The kid thing is likely an excuse (given that he's not trying to force himself on a north east team)
I'd say Hernangomez, Frank N., and an unprotected pick next year. I'm not crazy about that trade for the Knicks, but I can't see the Cavs settling for anything less than that...or likely even that.
I'd say Hernangomez, Frank N., and an unprotected pick next year. I'm not crazy about that trade for the Knicks, but I can't see the Cavs settling for anything less than that...or likely even that.
if i am the cavs:
melo, willy and 2 1sts for irving
I'd say Hernangomez, Frank N., and an unprotected pick next year. I'm not crazy about that trade for the Knicks, but I can't see the Cavs settling for anything less than that...or likely even that.
I saw somewhere today (forget who reported it) that they are looking for 2 veterans and a young asset. I'd start them off with an offer of Melo, Courtney Lee, and a first round pick. They would have to send back Shumpert and Frye's contracts to make salaries match along with Irving.
The only issue with them bringing in Melo is that the fit with him, Lebron, Love, and Thompson is awkward. They would have to find a new home for Love, perhaps they could send him to Phoenix for a package centered around Bledsoe.
(We'd sure have been better off keeping Lopez than taking on Rose and Noah last year, huh?)
Does Melo and Lee plus a 1st rounder take Cleveland over the top? Probably not but at least they get an asset in return. I am not sure if this deal gets it done, they probably will want two first round picks or a 1st and Willy
Maybe the Knicks can get in on that:
Cleveland gets - Bledsoe, Melo (Maybe a future Knicks #1)
Cleveland gives - Irving, Shumpert, Frye
Phoenix gets - Irving, C. Lee
Phoenix gives - Bledsoe, J Jackson, B. Knoght
Knicks get - J Jackson, Frye, Shumpert, B. Knight
Knicks give - Melo, Lee, (Future #1?)
suns would be stupid to do that in my opinion...
just keep building around booker, jackson and chriss...
they said they want booker to be like harden ball always in his hands, then why trade for irving?
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I don't think we can top that, nor should we. I'd be willing to trade Frank, Carmelo, MAYBE a unprotected first, but that's it.
Maybe the Knicks can get in on that:
Cleveland gets - Bledsoe, Melo (Maybe a future Knicks #1)
Cleveland gives - Irving, Shumpert, Frye
Phoenix gets - Irving, C. Lee
Phoenix gives - Bledsoe, J Jackson, B. Knoght
Knicks get - J Jackson, Frye, Shumpert, B. Knight
Knicks give - Melo, Lee, (Future #1?)
Right teams, wrong trade:
Cleveland gives: Irving, Shump, Frye
Cleveland gets: Bledsoe, Melo
Phoenix gives: Knight, Bledsoe
Phoenix gets: Shump, Frank, Knicks 2018 no. 1 top 5 protected
Knicks give: Melo, Frank, 2018 1st top 5 protected
Knicks get: Irving, Frye, Knight
I'd say Hernangomez, Frank N., and an unprotected pick next year. I'm not crazy about that trade for the Knicks, but I can't see the Cavs settling for anything less than that...or likely even that.
Here are the 3 assets I'm willing to move...
- Melo
- Frank
- PROTECTED 2018 first round pick (somewhere between 5-8)
There's no way I make the 2018 pick unprotected. I also would be strongly against giving up Willy.
Can't wait to hear people talk up Leonard and how he was a high pick...6 years ago. Blazers fans absolutely despise him. They talk about him the way we used to talk about Fat Ray/Jeffries.
[]_Quetzalcoatlus_ 11 points 6 hours ago
Blazers fan jumping in on the top comment to let y'all know: Rice is our recently fired color announcer. He was let go because he was getting old and saying some wacky shit on TV. As far as I know, he's never broken a story before.
Maybe he's right, but I would take it with a grain of salt.
Just saying Leonard flat sucks. Blazers fans talk about him like he's truly garbage and 38% from the field at 7'1 is tough to pull off...If you can't get burn 5 years into your career you likely aren't very good.
Id be fine with Ariza coming here, we should 100% be able to trade him to a contender during the season. To be honest id rather trade him right away, but either way he is an asset.
maybe deal got completely reworked and anderson and leonard are not involved?
Isaiah Hartenstein
Troy Williams (perhaps that announced signing didn't actually occur yet)
Isaiah Taylor
Mo Harkless
Noah Vonleh
Pat Conaughton
Isaiah Hartenstein
Troy Williams (perhaps that announced signing didn't actually occur yet)
Isaiah Taylor
Mo Harkless
Noah Vonleh
Pat Conaughton
let the record show the market spoke pretty clearly on Rose's value in today's NBA. He's getting closer and closer to his destiny of leading the Chinese league in scoring. It's telling that an older player with his own lengthy injury history (George Hill) got a ton more money.
Isaiah Hartenstein
Troy Williams (perhaps that announced signing didn't actually occur yet)
Isaiah Taylor
Mo Harkless
Noah Vonleh
Pat Conaughton
Looks like Williams signing has happened.
"Williams signed a three-year contract extension with the Rockets on Thursday, Adrian Wojnarowski of ESPN reports."