In a season marked by extensive leaks and detective work, this might be the episode that has been spoiled in the greatest detail. And that was before the script was allegedly hacked this week. I'll try to avoid any of the leaked material. That said, the Episode Four preview gave away a lot, and the prior spoilers color the interpretation of certain shots. In short, READ NO FURTHER IF YOU WISH TO REMAIN UNSULLIED.
1) Cersei appears to have secured the Iron Bank's support, contingent on safe delivery of the Tyrell gold.
2) Jaime has taken possession of the loot that provides the episode's title, but he looks less than confident about transporting it. Long, Westworldesque establishing shots suggest that he and Bronn have a lot of open ground to cross, which could be a problem when the enemy has a Dothraki horde (unbeatable in the open plain) and three you-know-whats.
3) Speaking of the you-know-whats, Daenerys has lost her Westerosi allies and most of her patience with Tyrion's clever plans. It's just about "Dracarys" time. I figured Dany would hold her, um, fire for another week or two; but when a preview closes with a shot of Drogon, somebody's gonna get lit up.
4) Jon is exploring caverns by torchlight. Is that obsidian on the walls?
5) Theon appears to get his groove back - at least enough to pull a rowboat ashore with a determined expression.
6) A lone, diminutive rider eyes Winterfell from a distance. By all appearances, a girl returns home.
7) Sansa exudes administrative competence.
8) Baelish exudes whatever it is Baelish always exudes.
9) Pod takes another beating - probably from Brienne, but at some point he and his magic dick are going to see actual combat.
10) A dagger - possibly one we've been wondering about for quite a while - figures prominently.
11) Another quiet week north of the Wall. I'm not sure who's slower - Gendry in a boat or the Night's King on horseback.
It looks like his main ship has wings. Maybe it's an airship? It appears to be able to teleport all over the map and command flaming catapults positioned just out of camera.
-We have seen a similar shot of Arya before, at the Twins in season 3. Back then the Hound told her "You're almost there and you're afraid you won't make it. The closer you get, the worse the fear gets." Will she make it this time?
-Bran is a threat to Littlefinger. Baelish won't accept that Bran doesn't want Winterfell for himself. Plus with Bran spouting off about seeing the past, Baelish will want to quiet him up quickly.
-Now that Randall Tarly is Warden of the South, is Sam in danger? Oldtown is in the Reach and Sam did take the Tarly family sword. I can see Tarly forces pressuring the Citidel to hand over Sam. If so, hopefully for Sam, Jorah is still in town looking for a ship to give him passage.
-The trailer makes it look like there is something in that dragonglass mine beside dragonglass. Why would Jon lead Dany and Missandei down there just to show his progress? Dany has a shocked look on her face. Could there be a message left behind by Dany's family when she was born - the Targarian's side of the war maybe? The truth behind Rhaegar and Lianna? Or maybe they find something more ancient - a record of the first war againt the Walkers?
About that dagger... - ( New Window )
- Bran is a threat to Littlefinger.... Baelish will want to quiet him up quickly.
That preview shot of Jamie and Bronn overlooking those plans looked foreboding. Looks like the perfect place for a Dothraki hoard to slaughter an enemy, I agree there is no way Jamie brings that gold aboard Euron's ship, and it is not getting back to King's Landing.
I wonder if Arya returns as herself or in disguise. Should be an interesting episode.
I also think, practically, the show is a lot more interesting if you keep the power dynamic going for two seasons (ie, Cersei, Dany, Jon,... Jamie, Euron, Tyrion.. all alive)... versus killing each other off first and then battling the WW in season 8.
I also think, practically, the show is a lot more interesting if you keep the power dynamic going for two seasons (ie, Cersei, Dany, Jon,... Jamie, Euron, Tyrion.. all alive)... versus killing each other off first and then battling the WW in season 8.
Agreed, especially on point 2. The show just can't have it just be the WW in season 8. Maybe when the big battle there is no clear winner, or the winner has a fractioned surviving group.
Even before he was warden of the south he wanted Sam dead, but I'm not clear what changes by him becoming warden of the south.
I do think they need more Randyll Tarly, he's a good character.
Maybe they'll find Gendry hiding out in the caverns. That rowboat didn't look fit for a very long journey.
Hard to see him finding that proof at Dragonstone but I agree it'll need to happen somehow this season
Well it's going to at least take many months to rewrite all those scrolls. LOL.
He should be glad he's off latrine duty (no pun intended).
Even before he was warden of the south he wanted Sam dead, but I'm not clear what changes by him becoming warden of the south.
I do think they need more Randyll Tarly, he's a good character.
I honestly don't know if the Citadel answers to any lord. But it is in the Reach, which is not controlled by the Tarly's. That means there may be, at least, a greater pressence of Tarly men, rather than Tyrell around Old Town (where the Citadel is)
I'm just assuming the narrative between Sam, his father and the sword will have to be sewn up at some point. This would be a good opportunity to do so.
I can imagine a scene where Tarly men (headed by Sam's brother maybe) enter the Citadel demanding the fugitive and enemy of the reach be handed over. The maesters resist of course, but Dickon promises to come back with more men. This is when Ebrose arranges for Sam & co to be sneaked out to where Jorah awaits.
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being warden of the south put Sam in any more danger? Do they control the citadel? Does anyone control the citadel?
Even before he was warden of the south he wanted Sam dead, but I'm not clear what changes by him becoming warden of the south.
I do think they need more Randyll Tarly, he's a good character.
I honestly don't know if the Citadel answers to any lord. But it is in the Reach, which is not controlled by the Tarly's. That means there may be, at least, a greater pressence of Tarly men, rather than Tyrell around Old Town (where the Citadel is)
I'm just assuming the narrative between Sam, his father and the sword will have to be sewn up at some point. This would be a good opportunity to do so.
I can imagine a scene where Tarly men (headed by Sam's brother maybe) enter the Citadel demanding the fugitive and enemy of the reach be handed over. The maesters resist of course, but Dickon promises to come back with more men. This is when Ebrose arranges for Sam & co to be sneaked out to where Jorah awaits.
grrr I meant *NOW* controlled by Tarly's
Randall is also portrayed as a man who doesn't like to lose. He is famous for being the only commander to ever defeat Robert Baratheon in battle. He comes off as very proud and arrogant - even to the Lannisters. I doubt he will take losing his most prized possesion lighlty, especially to his weakling son.
Of course, he's on the wrong side of the continent, but that's OK. The Citadel story line has been largely independent - aside from Sam's dispatches to the North - and the show has few scruples about time and space anyway.
Official Images From Episode 704 - ( New Window )
The transition from contesting the Iron Throne to fighting the "War to Come" is the main challenge of ASOIAF. The game of thrones may "just" be a game compared to the existential battle between darkness and light, but it's a whole lot more fun. I think this is where Martin's guiding hand comes in. The showrunners have a lot of freedom; but on fundamental stuff like whether the Lannisters survive this war, it's probably his call.
Sansa has another creepy talk with Bran?
Littlefinger, Pod and Brienne seem interested in something/someone in the the courtyard.
And then there is this shot:
Maybe they see a funny looking bird.
I think at this point, the show runners just want to forget Dorne ever existed.
Now that the Martells and Sands are out of the picture, there's no obvious reason for the Dornish to fight on Dany's side. The Targaryens have a complex, violent history with Dorne. The recent, tenuous alliance probably wasn't helped much when Crown Prince Rhaegar snubbed his delicate Martell wife in favor of Robert's northling fiancee (though there might be more to the Rhaegar-Lyanna story than just the reckless dalliance of a randy prince).
A more honest answer might be that the whole Dorne story line is so screwed up in the show that sensible, logical explanations are largely beside the point. Dorne was laughable in Season Five, and went irretrievably off the rails at the start of Season Six, when a late rewrite killed off Prince Doran in Episode One. Aside from wasting a strong cast member in Siddig, that change left the Dorne narrative in total disarray.
The whole Stark thing is about honor. They are more than symbolic for it, they're practically caricatures. The father and brother died for Lyanna's honor, Ned died for his own, it's being presented as Jon's fatal flaw, Arya is enacting revenge for it, Sansa (if she had it) lost it due to great trauma. Given that background, it makes no sense for Lyanna to not only cheat on her fiance but also to cuckhold Rhaegar. It's about as dishonorable as you can get and is pretty much the antithesis of Stark.
I can't believe that somehow there's bigamy allowed or that the Martell/Targaryan marriage was dissolved and a Stark/Targaryan marriage. That would not be trivial because it then makes Jon the true-born son of the Crown Prince (or even King depending on the timing of things) which alters the line of succession.
The whole Stark thing is about honor. They are more than symbolic for it, they're practically caricatures. The father and brother died for Lyanna's honor, Ned died for his own, it's being presented as Jon's fatal flaw, Arya is enacting revenge for it, Sansa (if she had it) lost it due to great trauma. Given that background, it makes no sense for Lyanna to not only cheat on her fiance but also to cuckhold Rhaegar. It's about as dishonorable as you can get and is pretty much the antithesis of Stark.
I can't believe that somehow there's bigamy allowed or that the Martell/Targaryan marriage was dissolved and a Stark/Targaryan marriage. That would not be trivial because it then makes Jon the true-born son of the Crown Prince (or even King depending on the timing of things) which alters the line of succession.
Well all the highborn marriages were arranged politically anyway. I didn't read the books, but I don't think Lyanna even met Robert until that Harrenhall tourney. Then again, Robert was really in love with her, so there might be something I missed.
I think we will get a flashback scene showing Lyanna and Rhaegar really did fall in love. I realize that doesn't mean much to the traditional Stark honor, but people love romance. If the show does it right, it would come off as she doesn't really have a choice but to be with her true love, Rhaegar.
I did hear about the story of "The Knight of the Laughing Tree" as told by Howland Reed. I hope that is the flashback we get. Depending on who the Knight was, it could be the perfect showcase of how and why those two fell in love.
second, the whole rebellion started because two people fell in love but decided it would be wiser to pretend he kidnapped and raped her (leading to the mad king ordering the deaths of her brother and father).
Why leave Lyanna holed up in the Tower of Joy defended by their best swordsman while he went off to fight Robert and his forces at the Battle of the Trident (where he eventually died I think), if she loved him too and was she being held against her will, why not just leave her free knowing she'd stay because she loved him too?
One other piece of information against this is that one of Rhaegar's men at the Tower of Joy was Arthur Dayne, from Dorne, wouldn't he have been at least a little offended, like the rest of Dorne, that Ella was jilted for a Stark? Yet Dayne fought to stop the Stark forces from rescuing Lyanna at the Tower of Joy (and where we know Ned "dishonorably" mercifully beheaded Dayne).
Just doesn't fit to me, seems like it could be a convenient show plot, but I doubt the books go there.
Well we don't really know much about Lyanna or Rhaegar. Lyanna could be more passion and less honor than most Starks.
Lyanna was tom-boyish, right? Rhaegar could have chosen her over his more beautiful wife becasue of her skills in riding and fighting. If that's the case it easy to see how she would secretly reject Robert (who would end up treating her like a prized pet) and run off with a man who respected her spirit.
That's all speculation of course. I'm just trying to show that its not all black and white. A Stark could be shown to make a "dishonorable" choice, given the right circumstances.
Then again, the way the pacing this season is going, they probably won't have time to really do any Rhaegar/Lyanna love story justice.
second, the whole rebellion started because two people fell in love but decided it would be wiser to pretend he kidnapped and raped her (leading to the mad king ordering the deaths of her brother and father).
Why leave Lyanna holed up in the Tower of Joy defended by their best swordsman while he went off to fight Robert and his forces at the Battle of the Trident (where he eventually died I think), if she loved him too and was she being held against her will, why not just leave her free knowing she'd stay because she loved him too?
One other piece of information against this is that one of Rhaegar's men at the Tower of Joy was Arthur Dayne, from Dorne, wouldn't he have been at least a little offended, like the rest of Dorne, that Ella was jilted for a Stark? Yet Dayne fought to stop the Stark forces from rescuing Lyanna at the Tower of Joy (and where we know Ned "dishonorably" mercifully beheaded Dayne).
Just doesn't fit to me, seems like it could be a convenient show plot, but I doubt the books go there.
I figured the kings guard knight were there for her (and the baby's) protection. Robert was an angry man who was promissed Lyanna by the Stark family.
Lyanna's only choices were probably forget Rheagar and live the life of a lady in a castle married to an abbusive man in Robert, or run away with Rhaegar who will defeat Robert and she can mend relations with her family later.
Ned and her other brothers would always take the honorable choice, but again we don't know much about who Lyanna was.
So, how could Robert's pride put her in danger? If anything he'd want to rescue her, just like the Ned and his forces tried to do/did.
I don't believe anyone felt the kidnap was a ruse, so I don't find it believable Robert would be interested in harming Lyanna (especially with Ned his close friend) so they'd need to protect her from the Starks/Robert.
Not believable to me.
Ned and her other brothers would always take the honorable choice, but again we don't know much about who Lyanna was.
Ned's older brother (at least in the books) isn't necessary painted with the same honorable brush as Ned. He is not without honor, but is also a womanizer like Robert.
So, how could Robert's pride put her in danger? If anything he'd want to rescue her, just like the Ned and his forces tried to do/did.
I don't believe anyone felt the kidnap was a ruse, so I don't find it believable Robert would be interested in harming Lyanna (especially with Ned his close friend) so they'd need to protect her from the Starks/Robert.
Not believable to me.
He would be very interested in harming that baby. Wouldn't he?
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Tower of Joy I mean, everyone still felt Lyanna was kidnapped.
So, how could Robert's pride put her in danger? If anything he'd want to rescue her, just like the Ned and his forces tried to do/did.
I don't believe anyone felt the kidnap was a ruse, so I don't find it believable Robert would be interested in harming Lyanna (especially with Ned his close friend) so they'd need to protect her from the Starks/Robert.
Not believable to me.
He would be very interested in harming that baby. Wouldn't he?
How did he know she was pregnant?
Yes, this is my point. She just didn't want to be with Robert, who was quick tempered. Just like Arya, she didn't want to live the life of a Lady in a castle. From what I know of Robert, from season 1, he would have given her a backhand accross the face after Rhaegar placed the flowers on her lap (maybe he did).
And from what Barristan told Dany about Rhaegar, his men loved him, including Authur Dayne. I can see Dayne honoring the wishes of his freind and man he was sworn to obey and protect.
I understand the Starks are honorable, but that doesn't mean they weren't capable of single "dishonorable acts." And like Pete said, we really do not know a lot about Lyanna. We know how Robert felt about her, but we don't know if those feelings were felt in return.
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In comment 13548195 pjcas18 said:
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Tower of Joy I mean, everyone still felt Lyanna was kidnapped.
So, how could Robert's pride put her in danger? If anything he'd want to rescue her, just like the Ned and his forces tried to do/did.
I don't believe anyone felt the kidnap was a ruse, so I don't find it believable Robert would be interested in harming Lyanna (especially with Ned his close friend) so they'd need to protect her from the Starks/Robert.
Not believable to me.
He would be very interested in harming that baby. Wouldn't he?
How did he know she was pregnant?
I don't know about you, but I can eventually tell when a woman is pregnant. She wasn't going to hide that from him for too long.
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In comment 13548222 Pete in 'Vliet said:
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In comment 13548195 pjcas18 said:
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Tower of Joy I mean, everyone still felt Lyanna was kidnapped.
So, how could Robert's pride put her in danger? If anything he'd want to rescue her, just like the Ned and his forces tried to do/did.
I don't believe anyone felt the kidnap was a ruse, so I don't find it believable Robert would be interested in harming Lyanna (especially with Ned his close friend) so they'd need to protect her from the Starks/Robert.
Not believable to me.
He would be very interested in harming that baby. Wouldn't he?
How did he know she was pregnant?
I don't know about you, but I can eventually tell when a woman is pregnant. She wasn't going to hide that from him for too long.
So Robert has seen Lyanna since she was kidnapped (and raped) by Rhaegar and knew she was pregnant?
that is news to me. I did not realize this.
I assumed since the kidnapping, Lyanna was not seen by Robert or any of the Starks and that led them to believe she was being held against her will and like I said that event along with the executions of Rickard and Brandon started the whole rebellion.
But if Lyanna stayed around, after falling in love and conceiving wth Rhaegar, he would have found out eventually. So she runs off and hides away, while everyone assumes she is kidnapped. She probably figured Robert would challenge Rhaegar and lose and she could try to patch things up with her family and the Arryns later.
But the mad king was...mad. So when papa and brother Stark show up demanding Lyanna, he burns them for defying their king. Then things get way out of control. War starts, so Rhaegar has her protected in the tower. Robert then kills Rhaegar, and Lyanna ends up dying in childbirth.
Again this is just speculation by me, but it is not hard to see how this can play out with Lyanna willing going with Rhaegar instead of being kidnapped and raped.
Plus, while Lyanna maybe didn't love Robert, her biggest issue with the arranged marriage was Robert's womanizing and feared infidelity.
So you're suggesting that Lyanna would willingly elope with a married man while having hesitation about marrying Robert due to his philandering nature.
I expect better from Martin.
Plus, while Lyanna maybe didn't love Robert, her biggest issue with the arranged marriage was Robert's womanizing and feared infidelity.
So you're suggesting that Lyanna would willingly elope with a married man while having hesitation about marrying Robert due to his philandering nature.
I expect better from Martin.
Love is a crazy thing ;)
if they weren't secretly married, and it was in fact love not rape, nothing changes other than the whole rebellion and thousands of lost lives were done so for no good reason or at least under false pretenses.
I mean Robert probably would have had to fight someone to protect his name, but if Brandon and Rickard knew Lyanna was a willing participant in the charade not sure they react as boldly.
though the mad king would have done mad things, I doubt they would be as forceful with demanding her return and likely not torched.
Kidnap and rape really does not fit anything that we've heard about Rhaegar's personality.
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I'm not in the "they were secretly married camp" I coun;t care less about Jon legitimacy, ony his bloodline.
if they weren't secretly married, and it was in fact love not rape, nothing changes other than the whole rebellion and thousands of lost lives were done so for no good reason or at least under false pretenses.
I mean Robert probably would have had to fight someone to protect his name, but if Brandon and Rickard knew Lyanna was a willing participant in the charade not sure they react as boldly.
though the mad king would have done mad things, I doubt they would be as forceful with demanding her return and likely not torched.
I don't think that Brandon and Rickard knew Lyanna's true intentions though. So they went to King's Landing thinking she had been taken against her will.
So Lyanna does shoulder some blame for all of this, a war started under false pretenses. But I don't she ever could have imagined what the Mad King would do.
Kidnap and rape really does not fit anything that we've heard about Rhaegar's personality.
he was also not known as an adulterer or someone who would visit brothels.
It's all largely irrelevant anyway, if they weren't married the fact Jon Snow is a bastard consummated out of love or rape means nothing, a bastard is a bastard, like I said it just means the whole rebellion was carried out under false pretensions and thousands of lived meaninglessly lost.
if they had been married it could change the claim to the throne vs Daenerys.
Why would Lyanna, knowing she is dying, convince her brother to pretend to have ignored his famouse Stark honor, to save the life of a baby conceived through rape?
Why would Authur Dayne still keep this poor rape victim as hostage despite the fact that Rhaegar and Aerys were then already dead?
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to say that Lyanna was kidnapped and taken against her will and then raped, than it is to say that she went willingly and loved Rhaegar back. That's just the story that the Starks have told, but those that would likely know better (Littlefinger) have strongly hinted that it was no kidnapping
Kidnap and rape really does not fit anything that we've heard about Rhaegar's personality.
he was also not known as an adulterer or someone who would visit brothels.
It's all largely irrelevant anyway, if they weren't married the fact Jon Snow is a bastard consummated out of love or rape means nothing, a bastard is a bastard, like I said it just means the whole rebellion was carried out under false pretensions and thousands of lived meaninglessly lost.
if they had been married it could change the claim to the throne vs Daenerys.
It doesn't mean nothing though. Targareon's have special blood and magic abilities through thier genes. Jon has already ashown he doesn't need to be legitimate for people to choose to follow him, but his Targarean blood could make him a dragon rider.
But if it meant overthrowing the mad king, I don't think it could be considered meaningless. Regardless of the truth with Lyanna.
Don't you think the North (including his actual Stark cousins) would abandon him and reject his leadership once it's known he's a Targaryan and Stark, not a random Stark bastard?
I wonder even how Jon himself will deal with it, he's so somber he'll be conflicted I bet.
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but it helps his claims for legitimacy. It certainly helps his perception in the north as well if he's Lyanna's son born from love rather than rape.
Don't you think the North (including his actual Stark cousins) would abandon him and reject his leadership once it's known he's a Targaryan and Stark, not a random Stark bastard?
I wonder even how Jon himself will deal with it, he's so somber he'll be conflicted I bet.
Not sure how things worked in Westeros, but wouldn't he have had to be divorced from Elia first? Someone may have known about that.
bigamy or was he divorced? that's what I meant about Elia, the Martells would know, wouldn't they? I mean when the Mountain raped and killed her they held that grudge. I don't see a divorce being a secret.
Maybe it was hidden in a cave somewhere on Dragonstone by his surviving supporters? Wouldn't that be a cool surprise to find when mining for dragonglass.
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that they eloped. Mentioned this the other day but Rhaegar's harp could be a key. Where is it?
Maybe it was hidden in a cave somewhere on Dragonstone by his surviving supporters? Wouldn't that be a cool surprise to find when mining for dragonglass.
Hasn't there been speculation that it is in the winterfell crypts? Would definitely go a long ways towards legitimizing his relationship with Lyanna
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In comment 13548393 Kyle in NY said:
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that they eloped. Mentioned this the other day but Rhaegar's harp could be a key. Where is it?
Maybe it was hidden in a cave somewhere on Dragonstone by his surviving supporters? Wouldn't that be a cool surprise to find when mining for dragonglass.
Hasn't there been speculation that it is in the winterfell crypts? Would definitely go a long ways towards legitimizing his relationship with Lyanna
Yes I've read that theory, Lyanna asked Ned to promise to bury her at Winterfell with "her things" and among them was Rhaegar's harp.
It's just a fan theory IMO, but I've also read people say Rhaegar loved his harp and wouldn't have left it at the Tower of Joy. Not sure if he loved it so much leaving it at Dragonstone makes any more sense, but I have read that theory.
There are some holes in this account, but it stands up to scrutiny better than most ToJ explanations.
You can probably tell who I believe the knight was and why Rhaegar came back from his search apparently only finding a shield.
No matter who the knight ended up being, this line was interesting "The dragon prince sang a song so sad it made the wolf maid sniffle, but when her pup brother teased her for crying she poured wine over his head." That sounds like a lady who might let her passion get in the way of honor. Also, poor Benjen.
Knight of the Laughing Tree - ( New Window )
However it does include a spoiler (of something most know is going to happen anyway) so click at your own risk. I don't think it ruined the surprise that much for me, but instead I'm more excited to see the extended scene and context behind it.
Here is the link to where I saw it.
Training - ( New Window )
True, but its something they have been building toward for a while now, so I wanted to warn everyone in case they want to wait for the HD quality and full context in the episode.
why would * have a problem with Brienne?
why would * have a problem with Brienne?
they were sparring, no problem (from what I could tell)
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why would * have a problem with Brienne?
they were sparring, no problem (from what I could tell)
I bet there is also a little "I don't need your protection" point being made there as well.
Have we danced around the subject enough? I think anyone who's really determined to avoid spoilers has probably bailed on this thread by now.
Have we danced around the subject enough? I think anyone who's really determined to avoid spoilers has probably bailed on this thread by now.
troubled why? because Arya is now a 4 foot 11 badass? who can hold her own against the manly woman Brienne? the one who defeated Loras Tyrell and was on-par as a "swordsman" with two-handed Jamie.
Brienne is the only real casting decision I question. She was supposed to be uglier. Much uglier, she's not attractive in any way, but she as supposed to be so ugly people couldn't even look at her without mocking her.
Probably not a ton of ugly actors in general and who wants to put makeup on another character on this set.
I also don't think Tyrion's injuries are massive enough. Sounded in the book like he had no nose anymore or at least a massively disfiguring injury from battle of the blackwater.
and I really meant it as a compliment, practically every character in the show is almost perfectly matched to the mental image I created from the books, the Starks, the Lannisters, Samwell, such perfect casting across the board, so my Brienne comment was only because of how perfectly cast everyone else was.
Why would the Rhaegar's harp be the key? Did he carve out the names of his loved ones on the harp?
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that they eloped. Mentioned this the other day but Rhaegar's harp could be a key. Where is it?
Why would the Rhaegar's harp be the key? Did he carve out the names of his loved ones on the harp?
Lyanna was buried in the crypts at Winterfell, which was unusual to begin with, but it's alleged she was buried along with her personal "effects" that she kept close by at the Tower of Joy. If Rhaegar's harp is buried with her and her things in the Winterfell crypts it's logical to conclude that she and Rhaegar were not rapist and victim, but closer than that and actually legit lovers since it's been stated a bunch of times Rhaegar would rather play his harp and sing than fight and his harp is one of his prized possessions. Something he would normally take with him wherever he went.
I was hoping, now that she is in Winterfell, it would bring Howland Reed around, since he's probably wondering where both his kids are (RIP Jojen). Then he could confirm Bran's vision for the rest of the Norhtern lords. Although, I doubt the show is going to add anymore characters at this point. Maybe she will be important in protecting Bran once the Walkers come around.
Rhaegar was mostly at Dragonstone. He and his father didn't get along.
Once the rebellion broke out they went to Kings' Landing and that's where Rhaegar's family was killed.
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When the Mad King was still alive in ruling in Kings Landing, during this time, who was the head at Dragonstone? Was it Rhaegar or was he at Kings Landing at this time.
Rhaegar was mostly at Dragonstone. He and his father didn't get along.
Once the rebellion broke out they went to Kings' Landing and that's where Rhaegar's family was killed.
pjcas18, would you be able to give some examples of why Rhaegar and the Mad King didn't get along?
Also once Rhaegar and Lyanna ran away\kidnapped, did they spend any time at Dragonstone or where they at the Tower of Joy the majority of the time they were together?
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In comment 13549902 NYG27 said:
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When the Mad King was still alive in ruling in Kings Landing, during this time, who was the head at Dragonstone? Was it Rhaegar or was he at Kings Landing at this time.
Rhaegar was mostly at Dragonstone. He and his father didn't get along.
Once the rebellion broke out they went to Kings' Landing and that's where Rhaegar's family was killed.
pjcas18, would you be able to give some examples of why Rhaegar and the Mad King didn't get along?
Also once Rhaegar and Lyanna ran away\kidnapped, did they spend any time at Dragonstone or where they at the Tower of Joy the majority of the time they were together?
I don't know the whole story, but part of it is Rhaegar didn't marry a targaryan (Aerys wife was his own sister), I believe the family was notoriously incestuous, and he married Elia Martell from Dorne.
Plus he feared how well liked Rhaegar was and also worried that Tywin and Rhaegar secretly conspired to overthrow him.
Varys was known to manipulate Aerys to an extent and I'm sure helped perpetuate some of the paranoia "all for the good of the realm".
most of this is conjecture since it's not clearly spelled out in all the books, some from blogs.
Easily top 3 for those interested in sure you can get it online I watched it through covenant on kodi
That is really great news. Because...
...outside of Arya in the opening minutes of the season, not one character I have any deep interest in has been involved in any kind of action or real suspense at all.
Huge naval battle involving Euron, the Greyjoys and the Sand Snakes? Really didn't much care. The Unsullied storm Casterly Rock and take out some red uniforms? Should have been awesome, wasn't.
I haven't felt the slightest pull to re-watch an episode yet. So far this season has mostly been maneuvering to bring 2nd tier characters stories to a quick end. I can't imagine this is all how GRRM would have laid it out.
So, really Looking forward to the next episode.
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In comment 13549913 pjcas18 said:
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In comment 13549902 NYG27 said:
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When the Mad King was still alive in ruling in Kings Landing, during this time, who was the head at Dragonstone? Was it Rhaegar or was he at Kings Landing at this time.
Rhaegar was mostly at Dragonstone. He and his father didn't get along.
Once the rebellion broke out they went to Kings' Landing and that's where Rhaegar's family was killed.
pjcas18, would you be able to give some examples of why Rhaegar and the Mad King didn't get along?
Also once Rhaegar and Lyanna ran away\kidnapped, did they spend any time at Dragonstone or where they at the Tower of Joy the majority of the time they were together?
I don't know the whole story, but part of it is Rhaegar didn't marry a targaryan (Aerys wife was his own sister), I believe the family was notoriously incestuous, and he married Elia Martell from Dorne.
Plus he feared how well liked Rhaegar was and also worried that Tywin and Rhaegar secretly conspired to overthrow him.
Varys was known to manipulate Aerys to an extent and I'm sure helped perpetuate some of the paranoia "all for the good of the realm".
most of this is conjecture since it's not clearly spelled out in all the books, some from blogs.
It was less that he didn't marry a Targ and more that he was jealous/paranoid that everyone loved Rhaegar and didn't really like him. Rhaegar's seat was on Dragonstone but it's not like he just chilled there all the time.
Not sure what ppl don't get about the Lyanna thing. She couldn't tell her father and brother she was breaking the arranged marriage. They assume she was kidnapped. Mad King was the ultimate dickhead. Arthur Dayne was loyal to Rhaegar and carrying out his wishes. Had Arthur Dayne been at Rhaegars side war battle easily could have went the other way.
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I couldn't help myself and saw the entire episode 4 tonight. All I'll say is it's freakin epic! Can't wait to discuss it after it airs.
That is really great news. Because...
...outside of Arya in the opening minutes of the season, not one character I have any deep interest in has been involved in any kind of action or real suspense at all.
Huge naval battle involving Euron, the Greyjoys and the Sand Snakes? Really didn't much care. The Unsullied storm Casterly Rock and take out some red uniforms? Should have been awesome, wasn't.
I haven't felt the slightest pull to re-watch an episode yet. So far this season has mostly been maneuvering to bring 2nd tier characters stories to a quick end. I can't imagine this is all how GRRM would have laid it out.
So, really Looking forward to the next episode.
You won't be disappointed!
Incredible.
His brother, he's still fond of Jaime
You missed Tarly telling Jaime the gold made it to KL.
It might, and I hope it does. The playing field is too skewed. All 3 can go die in fact.
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To Jaime or to Deanerys?
His brother, he's still fond of Jaime
He is.
And Bran even said so tonight when he was talking to the both of them.
Thanks
I don't think so, I think he admires Jamie and doesn't want him to die.
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To what extend Arya knows about Littlefinger's machinations? Is he on her list?
He is.
And Bran even said so tonight when he was talking to the both of them.
Littlefinger is not on the list. I don't think Arya knows any of his schemes.
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In comment 13551120 Bill L said:
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To what extend Arya knows about Littlefinger's machinations? Is he on her list?
He is.
And Bran even said so tonight when he was talking to the both of them.
Littlefinger is not on the list. I don't think Arya knows any of his schemes.
How can Bran be wrong about something? Isn't he supposed to know everything?
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In comment 13551132 Ten Ton Hammer said:
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In comment 13551120 Bill L said:
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To what extend Arya knows about Littlefinger's machinations? Is he on her list?
He is.
And Bran even said so tonight when he was talking to the both of them.
Littlefinger is not on the list. I don't think Arya knows any of his schemes.
How can Bran be wrong about something? Isn't he supposed to know everything?
bran said cersei is on the list, that's why Arya was going to kings landing.
Did he say Littlefinger was on the list? I didn't hear that.
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In comment 13551138 pjcas18 said:
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In comment 13551132 Ten Ton Hammer said:
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In comment 13551120 Bill L said:
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To what extend Arya knows about Littlefinger's machinations? Is he on her list?
He is.
And Bran even said so tonight when he was talking to the both of them.
Littlefinger is not on the list. I don't think Arya knows any of his schemes.
How can Bran be wrong about something? Isn't he supposed to know everything?
bran said cersei is on the list, that's why Arya was going to kings landing.
Did he say Littlefinger was on the list? I didn't hear that.
Crap, I'm sorry. Now I'm the one not hearing things correctly.
Supposedly.
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was he getting a cameo?
Supposedly.
Nice!
UCONN,
I know you haven't been happy with th show as of late. What do you u think of this season thus far?
This episode..
I didn't make the connection until you wrote that. You're right.
Bran, in reply to littlefingers comment, " chaos" Bran Saud chaos is a ladder..
At that very moment, littlefinger realizes Bran is on to him.
Chaos is a ladder. Had to google cause I couldn't make it out either.
Chaos is a ladder (like Littlefinger said to Varys earlier)
Those with better memories (I cheated and read it" will tell you that littlefinger said it a long time ago. Bran throwing it back to him tells little finger that bran is on to him.
UCONN,
I know you haven't been happy with th show as of late. What do you u think of this season thus far?
This episode..
It's been solid, parts I like parts I don't. I still find the strategy more interesting than some of the battles. The battle tonight was solid, but once they dragons come it puts a damper on it. Would love to see the Dothraki fight straight up against the enemy instead. I enjoyed they Arya reunion much more than Brans. Also enjoyed Bronns exchanges with Jaime.
One thing that really bothers me is that absolutely nothing is happening in the north while this is all going on in the south. I realize there are different timelines that we have to assume but it's hard to hear about winter coming and winter now here and still nothing from the dead marching.
Great scene.
How about "Dickon". Hahahahahaha -Bronn
made perfect sense for Daenerys, she needed to show what she was capable of, without murdering thousands of innocents - finding the Lannister army exposed was a perfect target.
I'm not going to quibble about little details like how did she still have enough ships to ferry the Dothraki to the battlefield, and how was Euron not around and lurking to disrupt them - story's moving at too fast a pace now, and they're hitting all the high points
Good call by zgiants with the theory of a poisoned spear...I could definitely see that happening, which would raise the stakes significantly
And the Arya/Sansa reunion was well done - they hated each other growing up, would have been wrong to make it all sappy - better that it was solemn at first, then their affection came out
And love how Arya got to show her skills..they're clearly all scared of what she's become
2 straight brilliant episodes
But he saved Jaime's butt one more time.
I suspect Varys and Tyrion are on their way out of Danerys' court, while Jon and Davos are on their way in.
Littlefinger might try to kill Bran, because his past schemes are all at risk of being revealed.
But he saved Jaime's butt one more time.
I suspect Varys and Tyrion are on their way out of Danerys' court, while Jon and Davos are on their way in.
Littlefinger might try to kill Bran, because his past schemes are all at risk of being revealed.
I thought Bronn was doomed too
I'm strangely really hoping Daenerys and Jon consummate their budding "partnership" right before Bran informs them of the whole aunt/nephew thing
And also really interesting to see a battle with key main characters on each side. Hasn't really happened yet, at least not a battle that was shown on screen. Really seemed like Jamie was about to go out there.
Huge help.
It showed them both in the water so they should be right next to each other.
Link - ( New Window )
I think Tyrion demands that he gets fished out and Jaime and Bronn become Dany's prisoners. Perhaps Tyrion will return the favor to his brother and let him/them escape.
LOVED THE ep.
- Littlefinger's face dropping because of Bran was great
- The Arya/Brienne face-off was excellent. I wasn't quite sure what to make of Sansa and Littlefinger's reactions
- The Dragon/Dothraki attack was complete kick-ass.
I thought that was him, but I wasn't sure.
Fantastic episode all around. Still lots of shit to go down in three episodes.
At this point we can assume Bran knows literally everything.
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Or does he? He was sinking awfully fast with all his armer + gold hand.
I think Tyrion demands that he gets fished out and Jaime and Bronn become Dany's prisoners. Perhaps Tyrion will return the favor to his brother and let him/them escape.
LOVED THE ep.
- Littlefinger's face dropping because of Bran was great
- The Arya/Brienne face-off was excellent. I wasn't quite sure what to make of Sansa and Littlefinger's reactions
- The Dragon/Dothraki attack was complete kick-ass.
Sansa's reaction was interesting. I took it as her finally coming to the realization that Arya is not the same girl she knew. That along with Bran being so far gone is probably causing her to feel more isolated. Right now little finger may be the only person she feels she knows, which might lead to her entrusting him again.
It may not matter much....or it might. Who knows with this crazy show.
I would say yes to that question but I suppose it is possible he can sneak up from the water with no one noticing....but that seems most unlikely. And of course, Tyrion will make sure if brother is captured that nothing happens to him. In fact, Tyron seems to be useless to the Queen's cause so maybe they send him in another direction. Can't imagine why he would want to fight for Cersei though.
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he'd absolutely have to be a captive, right?
I would say yes to that question but I suppose it is possible he can sneak up from the water with no one noticing....but that seems most unlikely. And of course, Tyrion will make sure if brother is captured that nothing happens to him. In fact, Tyron seems to be useless to the Queen's cause so maybe they send him in another direction. Can't imagine why he would want to fight for Cersei though.
Useless to the Queen's cause? Didn't Tyrion just almost single handedly bring Danaerys and Jon Snow to a compromise that could lead to a larger ally than Dorne and Highgarden combined?
Most sources agree that it was Bronn who pushed Jaime into the water. I'm willing to take their word for it, rather than perform my own frame-by-frame analysis or search for leaked script fragments.
As for whether Jaime and Bronn will be captured if/when they surface, here's one thing to consider: the body of water in which they submerged almost certainly wasn't a lake. The Lannister army was marching along the Gold Road, paralleling Blackwater Rush toward King's Landing, which sits at the western end of Blackwater Bay. There's no lake there (the God's Eye is well to the north). Anyone seeming wet refuge from dragonfire would jump into the Rush. If J&B manage to follow the current downriver, it will take them right to King's Landing, out of Daenerys's reach.
Drogo was amazing
If Dany takes over she'll need Tyrion/Varys to handle that aspect.
Been there done that
If Dany takes over she'll need Tyrion/Varys to handle that aspect.
How soon will Varys jump ship for the good of the realm?
He was in one scene. And saved Jamie.
Littlefinger might try to kill Bran, because his past schemes are all at risk of being revealed.
Yeah, but i'll be shocked if it ends any other way than Arya killing LF (before he gets to Bran) with the dagger. Seems just too perfect an ending to that storyline.
Did Sam Turly's father die in the battle? I thought I saw him burning to death, but they didnt give it much air time if it were the case.
Yup, pretty sure he burned up
A bit too much Iron Bank. Also, it's dumb to completely pay off the Iron Bank, no? Now the Iron Bank can be a free agent and back Dany without risking their Lannister investment. Your lenders love you when you pay off loans, but the NEED you when you havent paid off loans.
A bit too much Iron Bank. Also, it's dumb to completely pay off the Iron Bank, no? Now the Iron Bank can be a free agent and back Dany without risking their Lannister investment. Your lenders love you when you pay off loans, but the NEED you when you havent paid off loans.
I think the idea is, now that she has paid off the loans, she will be taking on a new line of credit with the bank. She mentioned hiring the Golden Company.
She will also need food now that Dany has burned every last bit in the Kingdom, just as winter arrived. Some character has mentioned the need for food in every episode so far this season. It going to be a big deal.
In fact I would argue that Cersie, somehow came out on top after this defeat. Dany's army will be crippled if she can't feed them and Cersie can now afford to not only replace her Lannister army, but also provision them as well.
1) I try to misdirect Bran with the dagger ( so he feels safe and safe about Littlefinger?) and plant the idea that it could not have been me behind the second attempt to kill Bran by claiming my lifes work is undying loyalty to his mother.
2) He nails my shit to the wall in a searing way
3) Arya shows up...not necessarily a terrible imposition. Normally I'd keep Sansa wary of her except Sansa seems firm in resisting my efforts to steer or introduce doubts
4) But now Bran has given the dagger to Arya. Ok...weird
5) Arya shows she has a very cold and capable side and cards she is not yet playing
6) The episode ends with Sansa, Bran and Brienne all wary and putting no value on Littlefingers life.
Then an exhibition of a surprising and mysterious/ominous life force/backstory on Arya.
Then the episode ends with Arya's eyes in clear calculation and wariness of Littlefinger on the balcony. Add him to The List?
Littlefinger's problem with the Starks is that unlike any other folks he manipulated, they don't need anything from him. His only option to take them away from a focus on the White Walkers is to invite Cersei into the North or get the Robin of the Vale to march back home.
Nor is Sansa a prize for marrying her gets you a room at Winterfell once Jon is back.
How can he get Cersei's interest?
Well after the attack on the wagon train...who in the realm has stores of grain? And no military commander of note?
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The Arya stuff was amazing, and the battle scene was the best of the series IMO.
A bit too much Iron Bank. Also, it's dumb to completely pay off the Iron Bank, no? Now the Iron Bank can be a free agent and back Dany without risking their Lannister investment. Your lenders love you when you pay off loans, but the NEED you when you havent paid off loans.
I think the idea is, now that she has paid off the loans, she will be taking on a new line of credit with the bank. She mentioned hiring the Golden Company.
She will also need food now that Dany has burned every last bit in the Kingdom, just as winter arrived. Some character has mentioned the need for food in every episode so far this season. It going to be a big deal.
In fact I would argue that Cersei, somehow came out on top after this defeat. Dany's army will be crippled if she can't feed them and Cersie can now afford to not only replace her Lannister army, but also provision them as well.
Interesting point you make about Cersei - 2 straight episodes of sacrificing lots of Lannister soldiers, intentionally then unintentionally, and yet through the Iron Bank connection and Euron's presence, she's effectively lured the bulk of Daenerys's forces out in the open in a foreign country with potentially very limited transportation capabilities or provisions.
I was thinking Cersi was going to make it to the end, but now I think she's going to be disposed of and Jaime will commit the Lannister/southern forces to the fight against the walkers.
1) I try to misdirect Bran with the dagger ( so he feels safe and safe about Littlefinger?) and plant the idea that it could not have been me behind the second attempt to kill Bran by claiming my lifes work is undying loyalty to his mother.
2) He nails my shit to the wall in a searing way
3) Arya shows up...not necessarily a terrible imposition. Normally I'd keep Sansa wary of her except Sansa seems firm in resisting my efforts to steer or introduce doubts
4) But now Bran has given the dagger to Arya. Ok...weird
5) Arya shows she has a very cold and capable side and cards she is not yet playing
6) The episode ends with Sansa, Bran and Brienne all wary and putting no value on Littlefingers life.
Then an exhibition of a surprising and mysterious/ominous life force/backstory on Arya.
Then the episode ends with Arya's eyes in clear calculation and wariness of Littlefinger on the balcony. Add him to The List?
Littlefinger's problem with the Starks is that unlike any other folks he manipulated, they don't need anything from him. His only option to take them away from a focus on the White Walkers is to invite Cersei into the North or get the Robin of the Vale to march back home.
Nor is Sansa a prize for marrying her gets you a room at Winterfell once Jon is back.
How can he get Cersei's interest?
Well after the attack on the wagon train...who in the realm has stores of grain? And no military commander of note?
Whoa. I see where you're going with that...very interesting theory.
IMO, Littlefinger has been too prominent a character for too long to simply linger at Winterfell waiting for some combo of Starks + Brienne to get tired of his act and kill him. He very likely has a nefarious part to play yet (especially as he likely now realizes Bran knows everything - 2nd attempt on Bran's life, selling out Ned Stark in season 1, etc)
i wanted to see more battle and i wanted someone to die.
Where's a warg when you need one ?
he merely suggests to Sansa that "sharing" the food gets her peace with Cersei ( who by now has heard it was Oleanna and not Sansa) and a pledge for soldiers to help Jon when he returns.
Sansa also thinks Jon is not taking care of his people but off on an adventure that "might" be a threat someday.
She may not be against Jon as a person but her view of him is that he is not practical in the here and now.
So she makes a deal.
its all speculation but you do know that Sansa/Jon love respect and tension based on tactics is not going away as a story line. Sansa is not ambitious but she does have a different point of view about what "protecting her people means"
So anyway...that's one way two pretty big characters get to play out their arcs. Not sure they have time for this subplot in the entire storyline but its easy to see how it could happen with Jon off scouting in the north
I hate what he's become, he's like the Stephen Hawking of Westeros.
If anything, Daenyrys was tipped of where Jaime was by a scout as they were very visible and it was a very long procession back from Highgarden.
Cersei is in a tougher spot re: food. Sure she can buy it but how does she get it into the city if Dany and her forces have them surrounded?
I hate what he's become, he's like the Stephen Hawking of Westeros.
You mean his sullen disposition? I don't know if it's been overtly shown yet, but can Bran see the future too? Could that be the reason he seems so broken?
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really isn't going to ever walk? I know this from the "you will never walk again, but you will fly" line (from the three-eyed rave before him?) but still find myself holding out hope. First chapter of the book all those years ago.
I hate what he's become, he's like the Stephen Hawking of Westeros.
You mean his sullen disposition? I don't know if it's been overtly shown yet, but can Bran see the future too? Could that be the reason he seems so broken?
I didn't realize he could see the future, I thought he only knew everything that ever happened.
but that could explain it.
Cersei is in a tougher spot re: food. Sure she can buy it but how does she get it into the city if Dany and her forces have them surrounded?
But as we heard in the begining of the episode, Jaime removed all stored food from Highgarden and then sent Bronn and the Tarlys to collect from the rest of the Reach. With winter here, there won't be time to grow and harvest more.
Sansa is the "smart ant" back at winterfell, making sure there is plenty of food and provisions for the winter. Soon though, the "grasshoppers" will come around looking to take it all.
I think she went to "train" (spar) against Brienne under the watchful eye of Sansa and Littlefinger expressly to give them a flavor of what she has learned in her time away. Between that and her free disclosure of the list (which Sansa was dismissive of), she's not keeping big secrets. She may not tell them about being faceless, but Bran knows anyway.
1. After Bronn missed with his first crossbow attempt, why did Dany try to take it again instead of avoiding it altogether? It's literally the only weapon they have against Drogon. She could have flown to the back of the Dothraki, said "get rid of that crossbow" and then continued to flame on the Lannister army.
2. Wouldn't the water have been crazy hot after Drogon's flame?
3. Only Missandei, Dany and Jon went into the cave -- but somehow Davos is with them when they leave the cave and meet up with Varys and Tyrion?
This seems like it would be of very little consequence to Daenerys. She just arrived and knows a whole lot of shit has been going down over the last few years. She knows the people united around Jon in the north. She's also made it her life's mission to free slaves so they can live however they please. I really doubt she would care about holding Jon's feet to the fire over a vow at this point.
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really isn't going to ever walk? I know this from the "you will never walk again, but you will fly" line (from the three-eyed rave before him?) but still find myself holding out hope. First chapter of the book all those years ago.
I hate what he's become, he's like the Stephen Hawking of Westeros.
You mean his sullen disposition? I don't know if it's been overtly shown yet, but can Bran see the future too? Could that be the reason he seems so broken?
I don't think he can see the future, or at least not in certain terms, because he said to Arya "I thought you'd go to Kings Landing" seeming surprised she was there.
So, how could Robert's pride put her in danger? If anything he'd want to rescue her, just like the Ned and his forces tried to do/did.
I don't believe anyone felt the kidnap was a ruse, so I don't find it believable Robert would be interested in harming Lyanna (especially with Ned his close friend) so they'd need to protect her from the Starks/Robert.
Not believable to me.
Lyanna wasn't worried about Robert hurting her... She was worried about him hurting her baby... Who ever that may be!
That wasn't her assassin training - that was her water dancing training with Sylvio Forel. Which was no secret...
My understanding is that they dont know he died.
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Dany, the dothraki and the Unsullied, and rest of her crew besides Varys or Tyrion know that Jon Snow's vow was until death and his vow ended with his "death".
My understanding is that they dont know he died.
I know, I'm saying the only ones who would even know or care would be Varys or Tyrion.
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(saw someone ask this on twitter): How come no one on Dragonstone is asking Jon why he is not in the Nights Watch? Leaving the Nights Watch at all (no less so than to take up as King in the North) is punishable by death. You'd think that since Dany and her crew already view Jon as a pretender king that there would be an acknowledgment of this.
This seems like it would be of very little consequence to Daenerys. She just arrived and knows a whole lot of shit has been going down over the last few years. She knows the people united around Jon in the north. She's also made it her life's mission to free slaves so they can live however they please. I really doubt she would care about holding Jon's feet to the fire over a vow at this point.
Really, after giving a speech about how some Start X generations ago made a vow to her family?
Her entire claim to legitimacy is based on holding to the oaths of the realm. Lost in all her revolutionary fervor is that she has generally been a real law and order ruler.
Been there done that
Good point. That would be overkill, wouldn't it? Yep
I was thinking Cersi was going to make it to the end, but now I think she's going to be disposed of and Jaime will commit the Lannister/southern forces to the fight against the walkers.
ARYA will be the one to kill CERSEI! She is on her list.......
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is a set up for her killing a/some white walkers.
I was thinking Cersi was going to make it to the end, but now I think she's going to be disposed of and Jaime will commit the Lannister/southern forces to the fight against the walkers.
ARYA will be the one to kill CERSEI! She is on her list.......
You don't ay
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In comment 13551649 Deej said:
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(saw someone ask this on twitter): How come no one on Dragonstone is asking Jon why he is not in the Nights Watch? Leaving the Nights Watch at all (no less so than to take up as King in the North) is punishable by death. You'd think that since Dany and her crew already view Jon as a pretender king that there would be an acknowledgment of this.
This seems like it would be of very little consequence to Daenerys. She just arrived and knows a whole lot of shit has been going down over the last few years. She knows the people united around Jon in the north. She's also made it her life's mission to free slaves so they can live however they please. I really doubt she would care about holding Jon's feet to the fire over a vow at this point.
Really, after giving a speech about how some Start X generations ago made a vow to her family?
Her entire claim to legitimacy is based on holding to the oaths of the realm. Lost in all her revolutionary fervor is that she has generally been a real law and order ruler.
If anything, she comes off interested in her claim because she's power hungry and desperately "wants" to rule and it fits her narrative. I don't know. For me it just doesn't fit her character at this time. She's been gone from Westeros since she was a girl and the moment she gets back she's going to start crucifying people for breaking vows with everything else going on? If Tywin was still ruling, or even somebody like Tully who's ingrained in Westeros affairs over the last 20 years it would make a lot more sense. Just my opinion though.
We don't know where Edmure is now. If Jaime kept his promise, Edmure and his unlucky little family should be under Ironborn siege at Casterly Rock, with the Unsullied.
Unless of course Dickon decides to pursue it along with his family sword. Dickon didn't seem like an asshole though.
Unless of course Dickon decides to pursue it along with his family sword. Dickon didn't seem like an asshole though.
And Sam is now rightful Tarly heir, over Dickon unless being a member of the Night's Watch, which Sam still technically is, changes heir (I think it might), but either way Dickon seemed nothing like his father.
Olenna's parting advice has sunk in. Daenerys is seeking a balance between Margaery (beloved, but dead) and Cersei (monstrous, but Queen). Dany is a dragon, and - breaker of chains or no breaker of chains - she has to be a dragon.
Aerys wasn't crazy to burn his enemies. His madness was that he couldn't tell enemies from friends, and wound up wanting to burn them all. Yes, Daenerys harbors ominous misgivings about some of her allies, like Tyrion and Varys; under the circumstances, that's prudent, not crazy. Didn't they both sit on Joffrey's Council? And doesn't Tyrion still have a big soft spot for the Lannister commander? That's a potential problem - though I suspect the reciprocal soft spot on Jaime's side will be more important one in the end.
In the books, he doesn't really dwell on the methods of coming and going from Dragonstone because you're not there very long. Stannis starts out holding it and doesn't stay there very long before he goes to the mainland and gets his ass kicked.
I did have some transportation questions as well. Kings landing is very close to Dragonstone and, by the renderings I've seen, basically in a straight line from Dragonstone to high garden. When I saw the Dothraki, I was like, uh, how did they get over there? Presumably they met on the road to Kings Landing. Probably overthinking a show about dragons, but Martin definitely thinks about this stuff as he writes the books. The shows? Maybe not as much.
Bronn was on top of his game last night lol...I wonder sometimes if he was to be killed off long ago, but proved to be so good at offering a little comedy that the writers keep having him dodge the reaper
I remember they said something about ships on the last episode, but I dont remember exactly what.
Bronn was on top of his game last night lol...I wonder sometimes if he was to be killed off long ago, but proved to be so good at offering a little comedy that the writers keep having him dodge the reaper
I read a review for this episode that stated Bronn and Lady Olenna both wound up getting bigger roles because of how funny they were. Bronn nails every scene. I loved how Tyrion quoted his "I'll impregnate the bitch" line, too.
That was essentially the same exact thing Jon said to Mance Rayder when trying to convince Mance to bend the knee to Stannis in season 5
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In comment 13551366 Deej said:
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is a set up for her killing a/some white walkers.
I was thinking Cersi was going to make it to the end, but now I think she's going to be disposed of and Jaime will commit the Lannister/southern forces to the fight against the walkers.
ARYA will be the one to kill CERSEI! She is on her list.......
You don't ay
My money's on Jamie killing Cersei - killing the mad queen
It's vague enough that it may not be the same person that kills her, but my money is on Sansa, as I am starting to think that there will be many more heartbreaking deaths of major characters before the curtain closes.
Of course, it could easily be Danaerys, but it's fun to speculate for sure. Really can't put anything past GRRM.
It's vague enough that it may not be the same person that kills her, but my money is on Sansa, as I am starting to think that there will be many more heartbreaking deaths of major characters before the curtain closes.
Of course, it could easily be Danaerys, but it's fun to speculate for sure. Really can't put anything past GRRM.
That part happened already with Margery all the other parts have also come to fruition except the last part
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on Cercei from Maggy the wood witch, states that she would cast down by a younger, more beautiful queen, who would take all that she holds dear.
It's vague enough that it may not be the same person that kills her, but my money is on Sansa, as I am starting to think that there will be many more heartbreaking deaths of major characters before the curtain closes.
Of course, it could easily be Danaerys, but it's fun to speculate for sure. Really can't put anything past GRRM.
That part happened already with Margery all the other parts have also come to fruition except the last part
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And when your tears have drowned you, the Valonqar shall wrap his hands about your pale white throat and choke the life from you." "Valonqar" means "little brother" in Valyrian
Interesting....I should have known there must be a good reason why so many people think it's going to be Jamie. Still, why not Tyrion then ?
-Most converstations between Sansa and Littlefinger revolve around "do we have enough food" and "Cersie is dangerous and will come for us someday". Could the Golden Company the Cersie now has the credit to buy, actually land in the North?
-After that "Chaos is a Ladder" line, do you think Littlefinger believes Bran can "see" all things or will he guess that Bran is somehow an agent of Varys?
-Something is going to go down between Littlefinger and the Stark kids. I have no idea what.
-It makes for great scenery, but its kind of funny how there is awlays someone different standing and staring into the distance at a random spot along that staircase/storm wall at Dragonstone.
-How long was Meera in Winterfell. Couldn't someone get her some clean clothes, or is she really into the Wildling look now? I was hoping we would get some scenes with her and Arya together, hopefully she is back at sompoint in the series. I'd love the show to showcase Greywater Watch and the Cranogmen, but that probably won't happen, even next season.
-So Danaerys went from complaining how whe won't be able to feed her army, because the Lannisters took Highgarden, to intenntionally destroying all of the food wagons.
-Cersie got the gold. She can purchase a new army and new provisions, while Dany now has to beg Jon for the food Sansa has been carefully storing (just a guess). Even in defeat, Cersie still kind of wins.
-Most converstations between Sansa and Littlefinger revolve around "do we have enough food" and "Cersie is dangerous and will come for us someday". Could the Golden Company the Cersie now has the credit to buy, actually land in the North?
-After that "Chaos is a Ladder" line, do you think Littlefinger believes Bran can "see" all things or will he guess that Bran is somehow an agent of Varys?
-Something is going to go down between Littlefinger and the Stark kids. I have no idea what.
-It makes for great scenery, but its kind of funny how there is awlays someone different standing and staring into the distance at a random spot along that staircase/storm wall at Dragonstone.
-How long was Meera in Winterfell. Couldn't someone get her some clean clothes, or is she really into the Wildling look now? I was hoping we would get some scenes with her and Arya together, hopefully she is back at sompoint in the series. I'd love the show to showcase Greywater Watch and the Cranogmen, but that probably won't happen, even next season.
-So Danaerys went from complaining how whe won't be able to feed her army, because the Lannisters took Highgarden, to intenntionally destroying all of the food wagons.
-Cersie got the gold. She can purchase a new army and new provisions, while Dany now has to beg Jon for the food Sansa has been carefully storing (just a guess). Even in defeat, Cersie still kind of wins.
Cersei got the gold she wanted, but everyone is going to need food supplies. Can't eat gold.
It goes very in depth with these symbols and the golden ratio. More than is probably needed for the show. But there are some beautiful shots from the show in this video, and it does seem that the show runners are intentially leaving behind certain patterns and symbols in some of these shots.
I couldn't find the screenshot, from Sunday, of the drawing show the first men and CoF together, but I remember seeing both the circle with line though it and the spiral underneath the figures.
It probably doesn't mean much for the plot of the show, but it is neat how they have built this visual connection between all these stories, going back to the very first episode.
Game of Thrones Theory: The Secret Behind the Symbols - ( New Window )
In the books, if I remember right, isn't the Golden Company still with Jon Connington and Young Griff?
Generally they go to the highest bidder, and have no allegiances, sort of like the unsullied but greedy.
I lost track if Jon Connington left the Golden Company or if they're still with him, but cutting out the whole young griff character has major story line implications far more than the elimination of the other characters they omitted like Lady Stonehart or Vargo Hoat for example.
I think Edric Storm is another big miss (two bastards folded in to one)?
the claims to the throne are neat and tidy on the show, not so clear cut in the books.
I heard the reference to the golden company, but I'd rather not see them half-assed introduced (though this show does nothing half assed).
I just feel something is going to go down with Sansa and all that food shes been storing. Right now all I can think of is, either Cersie will attack with Goldn Company or Jon will offer to Dany instead of bending the knee.
Some jerkoff in my office decided to read up on everything that happens the rest of the season, and just dropped a hint about a major spoiler to me.
Not sure what made him think this would be a cool thing to do, but I essentially told him I'd turn him into my own personal Reek if he opens his mouth again anywhere near me before the season ends.
I enjoy the BBI threads bc all of you do a great job of discussing theories without spoiling shit in advance - be careful to avoid the fucks out there who can't help themselves
Some jerkoff in my office decided to read up on everything that happens the rest of the season, and just dropped a hint about a major spoiler to me.
Not sure what made him think this would be a cool thing to do, but I essentially told him I'd turn him into my own personal Reek if he opens his mouth again anywhere near me before the season ends.
I enjoy the BBI threads bc all of you do a great job of discussing theories without spoiling shit in advance - be careful to avoid the fucks out there who can't help themselves
I agree its a problem. I was so excited when the show caught up to the books. I didn't think I would have to deal with spoilers again.
I tend to read reviews and breakdowns on winteriscoming.net. They will always warn ahead of time if there is a possible spoiler in an article. But, you still have to stay away from the comment sections on sights like this - some people are just dicks.
Some jerkoff in my office decided to read up on everything that happens the rest of the season, and just dropped a hint about a major spoiler to me.
Not sure what made him think this would be a cool thing to do, but I essentially told him I'd turn him into my own personal Reek if he opens his mouth again anywhere near me before the season ends.
I enjoy the BBI threads bc all of you do a great job of discussing theories without spoiling shit in advance - be careful to avoid the fucks out there who can't help themselves
That sucks. I know book readers have gotten upset or impatient with R.R. and I feel kinda bad for those who knew how to act, but there were so many book readers who (like you said) just can't help themselves. I was thrilled when the show moved ahead of the books, because fuck those people.
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I'd love it if the Golden Company is brought North. It adds a new element to everything that's current going on up there since this whole white walker thing is taking its sweet time.
I just feel something is going to go down with Sansa and all that food shes been storing. Right now all I can think of is, either Cersie will attack with Goldn Company or Jon will offer to Dany instead of bending the knee.
Sansa and Cersei have both mentioned food supply so many times to think it's going to be a plot tool at some point is not an unrealistic theory.
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In comment 13552425 UConn4523 said:
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I'd love it if the Golden Company is brought North. It adds a new element to everything that's current going on up there since this whole white walker thing is taking its sweet time.
I just feel something is going to go down with Sansa and all that food shes been storing. Right now all I can think of is, either Cersie will attack with Goldn Company or Jon will offer to Dany instead of bending the knee.
Sansa and Cersei have both mentioned food supply so many times to think it's going to be a plot tool at some point is not an unrealistic theory.
Sansa can always eat shit.
I haven't read them but by accident I got spoiled on something in these final 3 episodes because the damn website had zero care and printed it right in the headline. So you have to be very careful. Even searching something Game of Thrones related may cause trouble.