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NFT: Game of Thrones - Season 7 Episode 4: The Spoil(er)s of War

Big Blue Blogger : 8/1/2017 2:55 pm
In a season marked by extensive leaks and detective work, this might be the episode that has been spoiled in the greatest detail. And that was before the script was allegedly hacked this week. I'll try to avoid any of the leaked material. That said, the Episode Four preview gave away a lot, and the prior spoilers color the interpretation of certain shots. In short, READ NO FURTHER IF YOU WISH TO REMAIN UNSULLIED.

1) Cersei appears to have secured the Iron Bank's support, contingent on safe delivery of the Tyrell gold.

2) Jaime has taken possession of the loot that provides the episode's title, but he looks less than confident about transporting it. Long, Westworldesque establishing shots suggest that he and Bronn have a lot of open ground to cross, which could be a problem when the enemy has a Dothraki horde (unbeatable in the open plain) and three you-know-whats.

3) Speaking of the you-know-whats, Daenerys has lost her Westerosi allies and most of her patience with Tyrion's clever plans. It's just about "Dracarys" time. I figured Dany would hold her, um, fire for another week or two; but when a preview closes with a shot of Drogon, somebody's gonna get lit up.

4) Jon is exploring caverns by torchlight. Is that obsidian on the walls?

5) Theon appears to get his groove back - at least enough to pull a rowboat ashore with a determined expression.

6) A lone, diminutive rider eyes Winterfell from a distance. By all appearances, a girl returns home.

7) Sansa exudes administrative competence.

8) Baelish exudes whatever it is Baelish always exudes.

9) Pod takes another beating - probably from Brienne, but at some point he and his magic dick are going to see actual combat.

10) A dagger - possibly one we've been wondering about for quite a while - figures prominently.

11) Another quiet week north of the Wall. I'm not sure who's slower - Gendry in a boat or the Night's King on horseback.
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I hope they give Gendry  
Motley Two : 8/1/2017 3:08 pm : link
some really exaggerated Popeye forearms just to reinforce just how long he's been rowing.
The episode should be named  
Manning10 : 8/1/2017 8:42 pm : link
Dany Strikes back! I think the gloves come off and she calls in her Tactical Air Force and Napalms her enemies,
Thanks for the write up...  
Chris in Philly : 8/1/2017 10:21 pm : link
I hope everyone follows your lead and doesn't post spoilers from the leaked stuff...
To be clear: PLEASE DON'T POST STUFF FROM THE LEAKS.  
Mike from SI : 8/1/2017 11:08 pm : link
Just in case. I love the speculation based on the snippets, and wouldn't want to come across the leaked stuff. (By contrast, I couldn't help myself last year because I wanted to know that Jon was alive.)
I just checked my trusty map of Westeros.  
Big Blue Blogger : 8/2/2017 12:01 am : link
Considering that his side has total control of the seas, Jaime should probably ferry the gold down the Mander to the west coast, and hitch a ride back to King's Landing with Euron's supersonic fleet. Captain Psycho can surely spare a few ships from his siege at Lannisport. But I guess those two don't have the best working relationship.
RE: I just checked my trusty map of Westeros.  
RasputinPrime : 8/2/2017 4:21 am : link
In comment 13546621 Big Blue Blogger said:
Quote:
Considering that his side has total control of the seas, Jaime should probably ferry the gold down the Mander to the west coast, and hitch a ride back to King's Landing with Euron's supersonic fleet. Captain Psycho can surely spare a few ships from his siege at Lannisport. But I guess those two don't have the best working relationship.


It looks like his main ship has wings. Maybe it's an airship? It appears to be able to teleport all over the map and command flaming catapults positioned just out of camera.

A few thoughts  
Pete in 'Vliet : 8/2/2017 8:42 am : link
-There is no way that gold is making it to Kingslanding. The only question is do the Dothraki (or another force) attack this week or just move into position and postpone the battle until episode 5.

-We have seen a similar shot of Arya before, at the Twins in season 3. Back then the Hound told her "You're almost there and you're afraid you won't make it. The closer you get, the worse the fear gets." Will she make it this time?

-Bran is a threat to Littlefinger. Baelish won't accept that Bran doesn't want Winterfell for himself. Plus with Bran spouting off about seeing the past, Baelish will want to quiet him up quickly.

-Now that Randall Tarly is Warden of the South, is Sam in danger? Oldtown is in the Reach and Sam did take the Tarly family sword. I can see Tarly forces pressuring the Citidel to hand over Sam. If so, hopefully for Sam, Jorah is still in town looking for a ship to give him passage.

-The trailer makes it look like there is something in that dragonglass mine beside dragonglass. Why would Jon lead Dany and Missandei down there just to show his progress? Dany has a shocked look on her face. Could there be a message left behind by Dany's family when she was born - the Targarian's side of the war maybe? The truth behind Rhaegar and Lianna? Or maybe they find something more ancient - a record of the first war againt the Walkers?
Another thought  
Pete in 'Vliet : 8/2/2017 8:47 am : link
Where is Howland Reed? Was he be at Winterfell during Jon's meeting with the other Lords? Maybe he is too old and sick to make the journey, but now that Meera is back will he show up? Howland could be the key to verifying Bran's news about Jon.
A further revelation from the trailer...  
Big Blue Blogger : 8/2/2017 9:58 am : link
...involves the Catspaw dagger. I had wondered whether the rings on the unidentified hand holding the knife might be a clue, but didn't bother following up. For those who want to know, here's the answer (and then some):
About that dagger... - ( New Window )
RE: A few thoughts  
Big Blue Blogger : 8/2/2017 10:16 am : link
Pete in 'Vliet said:
Quote:
- We have seen a similar shot of Arya before, at the Twins in season 3....Will she make it this time?

- Bran is a threat to Littlefinger.... Baelish will want to quiet him up quickly.
Agreed - Baelish's hand is about to be forced, especially if Arya shows up. He's not on her list yet, but he will be if Bran starts sharing greenseer intel.
I believe the Dagger is in Baelish's possession  
beatrixkiddo : 8/2/2017 10:58 am : link
Ned confronted him and returned it to him, I believe that is him unsheathing it in the trailer. If that is him unsheathing it currently or an vision Bran had of him at one time remains unknown, but either way that plot is about to unfold against him in one way or another.

That preview shot of Jamie and Bronn overlooking those plans looked foreboding. Looks like the perfect place for a Dothraki hoard to slaughter an enemy, I agree there is no way Jamie brings that gold aboard Euron's ship, and it is not getting back to King's Landing.

I wonder if Arya returns as herself or in disguise. Should be an interesting episode.
I'm guessing they find proof of White Walkers existence  
MetsAreBack : 8/2/2017 11:29 am : link
underneath Dragonstone (somehow). Only 10 episodes left and no one but Jon in the south believes WW exist. They need to accelerate the process.

I also think, practically, the show is a lot more interesting if you keep the power dynamic going for two seasons (ie, Cersei, Dany, Jon,... Jamie, Euron, Tyrion.. all alive)... versus killing each other off first and then battling the WW in season 8.
RE: I'm guessing they find proof of White Walkers existence  
UConn4523 : 8/2/2017 12:33 pm : link
In comment 13546933 MetsAreBack said:
Quote:
underneath Dragonstone (somehow). Only 10 episodes left and no one but Jon in the south believes WW exist. They need to accelerate the process.

I also think, practically, the show is a lot more interesting if you keep the power dynamic going for two seasons (ie, Cersei, Dany, Jon,... Jamie, Euron, Tyrion.. all alive)... versus killing each other off first and then battling the WW in season 8.


Agreed, especially on point 2. The show just can't have it just be the WW in season 8. Maybe when the big battle there is no clear winner, or the winner has a fractioned surviving group.
why would Randyll Tarly  
pjcas18 : 8/2/2017 12:37 pm : link
being warden of the south put Sam in any more danger? Do they control the citadel? Does anyone control the citadel?

Even before he was warden of the south he wanted Sam dead, but I'm not clear what changes by him becoming warden of the south.

I do think they need more Randyll Tarly, he's a good character.

RE: I'm guessing they find proof of White Walkers existence  
Big Blue Blogger : 8/2/2017 12:43 pm : link
MetsAreBack said:
Quote:
underneath Dragonstone (somehow). Only 10 episodes left and no one but Jon in the south believes WW exist. They need to accelerate the process.
Dragonstone seems like a weird place to find that proof. It's pretty far south, and the island was of no strategic importance until the Valyrians colonized it - long after the Wall confined the Others to the far north. I guess the White Walkers could have been there much earlier, during the Long Night. That seems like a lot of obscure book-lore for Season Seven, with the show moving at breakneck speed.

Maybe they'll find Gendry hiding out in the caverns. That rowboat didn't look fit for a very long journey.
dragonstone  
giants#1 : 8/2/2017 12:49 pm : link
Maybe they find an armory with swords of Valyrian steel?
Pre-season trailers  
Kyle in NY : 8/2/2017 12:49 pm : link
showed Jon fighting north of the wall again. I'm guessing that will lead to some sort of proof for the rest of the realm that the walkers are real. Maybe he brings back a souvenir.

Hard to see him finding that proof at Dragonstone but I agree it'll need to happen somehow this season
part of me thinks Randyll  
UConn4523 : 8/2/2017 12:49 pm : link
might take Sam stealing the sword as a sign of him finally growing balls. Not sure he will hunt his son down and kill him just for that (or at all really).
RE: why would Randyll Tarly  
Big Blue Blogger : 8/2/2017 12:52 pm : link
pjcas18 said:
Quote:
being warden of the south put Sam in any more danger? Do they control the citadel? Does anyone control the citadel?
Oddly, it would put Sam in more danger. IIRC, Oldtown is under the protection of House Hightower, bannermen of the Tyrells. With House Tyrell getting the Rains of Castamere treatment, the Hightowers would be taking orders from Tarly. Not great for Sam in theory; but honestly, I can't see the show going down that feudal rabbit hole. Easier to just treat the Citadel as a neutral sanctuary.
RE: Pre-season trailers  
Big Blue Blogger : 8/2/2017 12:55 pm : link
Kyle in NY said:
Quote:
showed Jon fighting north of the wall again. I'm guessing that will lead to some sort of proof for the rest of the realm that the walkers are real. Maybe he brings back a souvenir.
Yup. That was the pre-season consensus.
Sam has already  
UConn4523 : 8/2/2017 12:57 pm : link
disobeyed orders at the Citadel, I doubt his Father now being in charge of the south will mean much. I don't even think Sam will be at the Citadel much longer anyway.
RE: Sam has already  
pjcas18 : 8/2/2017 12:59 pm : link
In comment 13547232 UConn4523 said:
Quote:
disobeyed orders at the Citadel, I doubt his Father now being in charge of the south will mean much. I don't even think Sam will be at the Citadel much longer anyway.


Well it's going to at least take many months to rewrite all those scrolls. LOL.

He should be glad he's off latrine duty (no pun intended).
I think Sam actually  
PEEJ : 8/2/2017 1:01 pm : link
earned some grudging repect from the Archmaester
RE: why would Randyll Tarly  
Pete in 'Vliet : 8/2/2017 1:02 pm : link
In comment 13547173 pjcas18 said:
Quote:
being warden of the south put Sam in any more danger? Do they control the citadel? Does anyone control the citadel?

Even before he was warden of the south he wanted Sam dead, but I'm not clear what changes by him becoming warden of the south.

I do think they need more Randyll Tarly, he's a good character.


I honestly don't know if the Citadel answers to any lord. But it is in the Reach, which is not controlled by the Tarly's. That means there may be, at least, a greater pressence of Tarly men, rather than Tyrell around Old Town (where the Citadel is)

I'm just assuming the narrative between Sam, his father and the sword will have to be sewn up at some point. This would be a good opportunity to do so.

I can imagine a scene where Tarly men (headed by Sam's brother maybe) enter the Citadel demanding the fugitive and enemy of the reach be handed over. The maesters resist of course, but Dickon promises to come back with more men. This is when Ebrose arranges for Sam & co to be sneaked out to where Jorah awaits.
RE: RE: why would Randyll Tarly  
Pete in 'Vliet : 8/2/2017 1:04 pm : link
In comment 13547249 Pete in 'Vliet said:
Quote:
In comment 13547173 pjcas18 said:


Quote:


being warden of the south put Sam in any more danger? Do they control the citadel? Does anyone control the citadel?

Even before he was warden of the south he wanted Sam dead, but I'm not clear what changes by him becoming warden of the south.

I do think they need more Randyll Tarly, he's a good character.




I honestly don't know if the Citadel answers to any lord. But it is in the Reach, which is not controlled by the Tarly's. That means there may be, at least, a greater pressence of Tarly men, rather than Tyrell around Old Town (where the Citadel is)

I'm just assuming the narrative between Sam, his father and the sword will have to be sewn up at some point. This would be a good opportunity to do so.

I can imagine a scene where Tarly men (headed by Sam's brother maybe) enter the Citadel demanding the fugitive and enemy of the reach be handed over. The maesters resist of course, but Dickon promises to come back with more men. This is when Ebrose arranges for Sam & co to be sneaked out to where Jorah awaits.



grrr I meant *NOW* controlled by Tarly's
I could see that Pete  
beatrixkiddo : 8/2/2017 1:08 pm : link
It would at least provide a solid reason for how Sam would get to leave the Citadel in the middle of his training. It would have to happen soon though as Jorah is on his way out of there. I felt there was something more to the point where Jorah said he is now endebted his life to two people, Dany and Sam after he saved him. Would be great to have him escape together and get what knowledge he has back to Jon.

RE: part of me thinks Randyll  
Pete in 'Vliet : 8/2/2017 1:12 pm : link
In comment 13547205 UConn4523 said:
Quote:
might take Sam stealing the sword as a sign of him finally growing balls. Not sure he will hunt his son down and kill him just for that (or at all really).


Randall is also portrayed as a man who doesn't like to lose. He is famous for being the only commander to ever defeat Robert Baratheon in battle. He comes off as very proud and arrogant - even to the Lannisters. I doubt he will take losing his most prized possesion lighlty, especially to his weakling son.
I figured Jorah would be riding at the head of the Khalasar.  
Big Blue Blogger : 8/2/2017 1:21 pm : link
Daenerys will be airborne, and the show hasn't bothered introducing a single Dothraki chieftain to lead the horde. (Apparently, she roasted everyone with leadership skills.) That leaves a pretty conspicuous vacancy for a Westerosi knight with unquestioned loyalty to Dany and extensive knowledge of Dothraki cavalry tactics.

Of course, he's on the wrong side of the continent, but that's OK. The Citadel story line has been largely independent - aside from Sam's dispatches to the North - and the show has few scruples about time and space anyway.
New photos of the next episode released today  
Pete in 'Vliet : 8/2/2017 3:05 pm : link
for those who are interested
Official Images From Episode 704 - ( New Window )
MetsAreBack mentioned one of the big narrative choices for Season 7.  
Big Blue Blogger : 8/2/2017 3:06 pm : link
MetsAreBack said:
Quote:
I also think, practically, the show is a lot more interesting if you keep the power dynamic going for two seasons (ie, Cersei, Dany, Jon,... Jamie, Euron, Tyrion.. all alive)... versus killing each other off first and then battling the WW in season 8.
Maybe add Sansa and Arya to that list, though for different reasons.

The transition from contesting the Iron Throne to fighting the "War to Come" is the main challenge of ASOIAF. The game of thrones may "just" be a game compared to the existential battle between darkness and light, but it's a whole lot more fun. I think this is where Martin's guiding hand comes in. The showrunners have a lot of freedom; but on fundamental stuff like whether the Lannisters survive this war, it's probably his call.
RE: New photos of the next episode released today  
Big Blue Blogger : 8/2/2017 3:15 pm : link
Pete in 'Vliet said:
Quote:
for those who are interested
The shot of Jerome Flynn and Nikolaj Coster-Waldau eyeing the horizon with dismay is great. For all the "Oh shit, here be dragons" memes, my guess is that Drogon hasn't shown up yet, and they're seeing the dust kicked up by an approaching Dothraki horde. Could be either. We've seen Drogon come in high and dive, and we've also seen him fly in low.
I wonder how many more teleports/time hops  
Giantology : 8/2/2017 3:18 pm : link
we'll get in this season alone. Jon figures to do a bit of traveling, Jorah rushing to Dragonstone, etc.
Question for book readers about Randyll Tarly  
NYG27 : 8/2/2017 3:19 pm : link
If Randyll was the only person to beat Robert on the battlefield, why didn't Robert take revenge on Randyll once he become King?
It looks like  
Pete in 'Vliet : 8/2/2017 3:22 pm : link
Jon will get to see Theon. I wonder how that will go. I'm sure Sansa told him how Theon saved her life, but there has to be alot of bad blood.

Sansa has another creepy talk with Bran?

Littlefinger, Pod and Brienne seem interested in something/someone in the the courtyard.

And then there is this shot:



Maybe they see a funny looking bird.
RE: Question for book readers about Randyll Tarly  
Big Blue Blogger : 8/2/2017 3:37 pm : link
NYG27 said:
Quote:
If Randyll was the only person to beat Robert on the battlefield, why didn't Robert take revenge on Randyll once he become King?
The Reach remained united on the loyalist side. There was no particular reason to single out Tarly for punishment - he was just Mace's best commander. As a usurper, Robert had to build new alliances. Hence his ill-fated marriage to Cersei and a general amnesty for the Tyrell bannermen.
I get why the Tyrells  
santacruzom : 8/2/2017 10:59 pm : link
Are out of the picture as an ally to Danaerys, but why would Dorne be? The show is crafting the impression that Dorne is a village of 30, and its military was comprised solely of the Sand Snakes.
RE: I get why the Tyrells  
Pete in 'Vliet : 8/3/2017 7:06 am : link
In comment 13548032 santacruzom said:
Quote:
Are out of the picture as an ally to Danaerys, but why would Dorne be? The show is crafting the impression that Dorne is a village of 30, and its military was comprised solely of the Sand Snakes.


I think at this point, the show runners just want to forget Dorne ever existed.
RE: The episode should be named  
Bill L : 8/3/2017 7:09 am : link
In comment 13546445 Manning10 said:
Quote:
Dany Strikes back! I think the gloves come off and she calls in her Tactical Air Force and Napalms her enemies,
When that happens they should play Ride of the Viserys.
RE: I get why the Tyrells  
Big Blue Blogger : 8/3/2017 7:17 am : link
santacruzom said:
Quote:
Are out of the picture as an ally to Danaerys, but why would Dorne be? The show is crafting the impression that Dorne is a village of 30, and its military was comprised solely of the Sand Snakes.
The sensible, logical answer is that the enmity between Sunspear and King's Landing was essentially a Lannister-Martell blood feud rather than a serious geopolitical conflict. The grudge goes back to the end of Robert's Rebellion, and the murder of Elia and her children by Tywin's henchmen. Ellaria and the Sand Snakes had the additional grievance of Oberyn's death, though he signed up to fight the Mountain and - as Cersei pointed out - had only himself to blame for losing.

Now that the Martells and Sands are out of the picture, there's no obvious reason for the Dornish to fight on Dany's side. The Targaryens have a complex, violent history with Dorne. The recent, tenuous alliance probably wasn't helped much when Crown Prince Rhaegar snubbed his delicate Martell wife in favor of Robert's northling fiancee (though there might be more to the Rhaegar-Lyanna story than just the reckless dalliance of a randy prince).

A more honest answer might be that the whole Dorne story line is so screwed up in the show that sensible, logical explanations are largely beside the point. Dorne was laughable in Season Five, and went irretrievably off the rails at the start of Season Six, when a late rewrite killed off Prince Doran in Episode One. Aside from wasting a strong cast member in Siddig, that change left the Dorne narrative in total disarray.
I'd go with the later  
UConn4523 : 8/3/2017 7:27 am : link
everyone in Westeros has or will be picking a side to back, makes no sense if Dorne is just somehow excluded from that. They started ignoring Dorne once it was realize what a debacle it was after Oberyns death. It's probably best they just do away with them completely instead of introducing another irrelevant character from the south.
As far as their being more to the Lyanna story  
Bill L : 8/3/2017 7:28 am : link
this has bugged me throughout...

The whole Stark thing is about honor. They are more than symbolic for it, they're practically caricatures. The father and brother died for Lyanna's honor, Ned died for his own, it's being presented as Jon's fatal flaw, Arya is enacting revenge for it, Sansa (if she had it) lost it due to great trauma. Given that background, it makes no sense for Lyanna to not only cheat on her fiance but also to cuckhold Rhaegar. It's about as dishonorable as you can get and is pretty much the antithesis of Stark.

I can't believe that somehow there's bigamy allowed or that the Martell/Targaryan marriage was dissolved and a Stark/Targaryan marriage. That would not be trivial because it then makes Jon the true-born son of the Crown Prince (or even King depending on the timing of things) which alters the line of succession.
The South  
PEEJ : 8/3/2017 7:30 am : link
remembers ???
.  
Bill2 : 8/3/2017 7:38 am : link
I liked MAB's good point about how the two seasons may unfold. Makes for much more interesting storylines
RE: As far as their being more to the Lyanna story  
Pete in 'Vliet : 8/3/2017 8:18 am : link
In comment 13548084 Bill L said:
Quote:
this has bugged me throughout...

The whole Stark thing is about honor. They are more than symbolic for it, they're practically caricatures. The father and brother died for Lyanna's honor, Ned died for his own, it's being presented as Jon's fatal flaw, Arya is enacting revenge for it, Sansa (if she had it) lost it due to great trauma. Given that background, it makes no sense for Lyanna to not only cheat on her fiance but also to cuckhold Rhaegar. It's about as dishonorable as you can get and is pretty much the antithesis of Stark.

I can't believe that somehow there's bigamy allowed or that the Martell/Targaryan marriage was dissolved and a Stark/Targaryan marriage. That would not be trivial because it then makes Jon the true-born son of the Crown Prince (or even King depending on the timing of things) which alters the line of succession.


Well all the highborn marriages were arranged politically anyway. I didn't read the books, but I don't think Lyanna even met Robert until that Harrenhall tourney. Then again, Robert was really in love with her, so there might be something I missed.

I think we will get a flashback scene showing Lyanna and Rhaegar really did fall in love. I realize that doesn't mean much to the traditional Stark honor, but people love romance. If the show does it right, it would come off as she doesn't really have a choice but to be with her true love, Rhaegar.

I did hear about the story of "The Knight of the Laughing Tree" as told by Howland Reed. I hope that is the flashback we get. Depending on who the Knight was, it could be the perfect showcase of how and why those two fell in love.
Sure, but love is not marriage (and vice-versa)  
Bill L : 8/3/2017 8:37 am : link
(even in real life). To my mind, a Stark would sacrifice their love, much less sex, for their honor.
Point being,  
Bill L : 8/3/2017 8:38 am : link
I can't believe that they weren't married at the time Jon was conceived.
RE: Sure, but love is not marriage (and vice-versa)  
Big Blue Blogger : 8/3/2017 8:56 am : link
Bill L said:
Quote:
(even in real life). To my mind, a Stark would sacrifice their love, much less sex, for their honor.
The show already tossed that principle in the trash with the way they handled Robb's betrothal and marriage: HBO went all-in on ill-fated romance, at the expense of Stark honor and Lannister intrigue. That was a big departure from A Storm of Swords, where IIRC Robb's entire downfall is orchestrated by Tywin - not just the Red Wedding, but the romance itself.
I find it believable  
pjcas18 : 8/3/2017 9:01 am : link
that Rhaegar was in love or in lust at least with Lyanna, but that she also loved him and willingly had sex with him may be a show plot but I doubt the books would suggest that. For one, agree with Bill, it's not honorable which is the prevailing Stark trait.

second, the whole rebellion started because two people fell in love but decided it would be wiser to pretend he kidnapped and raped her (leading to the mad king ordering the deaths of her brother and father).

Why leave Lyanna holed up in the Tower of Joy defended by their best swordsman while he went off to fight Robert and his forces at the Battle of the Trident (where he eventually died I think), if she loved him too and was she being held against her will, why not just leave her free knowing she'd stay because she loved him too?

One other piece of information against this is that one of Rhaegar's men at the Tower of Joy was Arthur Dayne, from Dorne, wouldn't he have been at least a little offended, like the rest of Dorne, that Ella was jilted for a Stark? Yet Dayne fought to stop the Stark forces from rescuing Lyanna at the Tower of Joy (and where we know Ned "dishonorably" mercifully beheaded Dayne).

Just doesn't fit to me, seems like it could be a convenient show plot, but I doubt the books go there.
RE: Point being,  
Big Blue Blogger : 8/3/2017 9:02 am : link
Bill L said:
Quote:
I can't believe that they weren't married at the time Jon was conceived.
I agree, but book readers probably have more basis for touting Jon's legitimacy than pure show-watchers. Besides, Lyanna is depicted as a free spirit and a rebel, both on the page and in the show.
RE: Sure, but love is not marriage (and vice-versa)  
Pete in 'Vliet : 8/3/2017 9:05 am : link
In comment 13548136 Bill L said:
Quote:
(even in real life). To my mind, a Stark would sacrifice their love, much less sex, for their honor.


Well we don't really know much about Lyanna or Rhaegar. Lyanna could be more passion and less honor than most Starks.

Lyanna was tom-boyish, right? Rhaegar could have chosen her over his more beautiful wife becasue of her skills in riding and fighting. If that's the case it easy to see how she would secretly reject Robert (who would end up treating her like a prized pet) and run off with a man who respected her spirit.

That's all speculation of course. I'm just trying to show that its not all black and white. A Stark could be shown to make a "dishonorable" choice, given the right circumstances.

Then again, the way the pacing this season is going, they probably won't have time to really do any Rhaegar/Lyanna love story justice.
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