Is this guy an Eagles fan or what? He doesn't have a nice thing to say about the Giants and they are his most overrated team from last year at no 19. He has Philly at number 6 and the most underrated team. I know it is early and all but there is no way the Eagles should be in anybodys top 10 going into 2017.
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Meh, you have them overrated.
How so?
his blind spot to the Eagle shortcoming
besides the point.....they should be decent if Wentz develops....who I feel has a bigger upside to Dak....washington should not be discounted either
But it's all mute if our OL improves....going into their 3rd year together should mean sonething....the Giants have the best roster going into the season
If he was their highest rated player at the time they picked, how was that a reach? Because CBS and ESPN "experts" wrongly decided pre draft that he would go lower? This narrative of guys sitting on their couch reading some clowns on websites and deciding players that they know nothing about are reaches is old and stale. But Jimmy Googs didn't like the pick, so it must be a reach!
And why does everybody think I sit on my couch when I read about football? I almost always do it at my desk in my home office...
And why does everybody think I sit on my couch when I read about football? I almost always do it at my desk in my home office...
Did I say I liked the pick? There were other players I thought they would go with but I'm going to go ahead and trust the Giants on their knowledge of the best player available to them much more than you or me. They put a hell of a lot more time into the process than we did, ya know?
Here's a little clue, if Engram was not going to be available for them at their next pick, it is NOT a freaking reach. And there were plenty of rumors that teams were trying to move up for Engram as the draft unfolded, too, so there's that. I'm convinced that you just like to type the word "reach" since you do it so often and obviously have no clue of the meaning
So value is the same over a 32-pick range then...
You'll just keep spinning things to fit your incredibly off base narrative so I'll just let you continue on your own. Your right, nobody else wanted Engram and the Giants took an inferior player that they didn't like because they just can't help themselves and their addiction to drafting TEs in the first round...
What a weird mindset you have.
So value is the same over a 32-pick range then...
55 isn't even a question, he's likely not making it to he end of the first or even the late 20s. Not sure what's so hard to believe about that.
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at #55 is the answer why he wasn't a reach at #23?
So value is the same over a 32-pick range then...
55 isn't even a question, he's likely not making it to he end of the first or even the late 20s. Not sure what's so hard to believe about that.
Similarly, whats so hard to believe that he could have been available at the beginning of rd2? Yeah, we don't have a pick there but thats when an opportunity could arise to take advantage of if Engram is your guy, or another cluster of players work for you at #23.
Is yours based off all the GMs that showed you their draft boards? Or the rumors that some teams leaked to their beat-writers about tight ends? its all the same shit...
Based on their findings and TEs being coveted this year by many teams, no, I don't think Engram lasts past the first round and likely not past the browns at 29.
So apply whatever label you want, there's zero evidence to support your opinion.
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your entire argument on this was based off of mocks...
Is yours based off all the GMs that showed you their draft boards? Or the rumors that some teams leaked to their beat-writers about tight ends? its all the same shit...
Doesn't have to be based off of other teams draft boards. The Giants picked him at 23. So, there is more proof in our argument than yours. The pick was actually made, we aren't basing ours on anything other than real life. It really happened. No mocks needed or conjecture or rumors. The Giants made the pick based on all of the information they had, which is a much better indicator of where his draft value was than your continued efforts to simply say "REACH"!!!
He was really reaching on that. But if you're going to predict an 11-5 team that's clearly made improvements to be the worst team in the NFCE you throw in the kitchen sink.
Based on their findings and TEs being coveted this year by many teams, no, I don't think Engram lasts past the first round and likely not past the browns at 29.
So apply whatever label you want, there's zero evidence to support your opinion.
Don't turn this into it being between mocks and Sy's ratings because its not correct. And nor do I base it on any 1 or 2 mock drafts found on CBSsports.com.
There was plenty of evals, draft rankings, value charts and even mocks available that suggested Engram was more likely an early second round talent. Doesn't mean he isn't a very good player or even a great one if he really suits the NY Giant's plans. But there is nothing wrong with an opinion that concludes he went earlier than expected.
Lord, some of you have got to be able to read opinions and debates and other people's conclusions without jumping off the deep-end into the NY Giant homer-pool...
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In comment 13550285 UConn4523 said:
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your entire argument on this was based off of mocks...
Is yours based off all the GMs that showed you their draft boards? Or the rumors that some teams leaked to their beat-writers about tight ends? its all the same shit...
Doesn't have to be based off of other teams draft boards. The Giants picked him at 23. So, there is more proof in our argument than yours. The pick was actually made, we aren't basing ours on anything other than real life. It really happened. No mocks needed or conjecture or rumors. The Giants made the pick based on all of the information they had, which is a much better indicator of where his draft value was than your continued efforts to simply say "REACH"!!!
Huh? So they picked him at #23 so he is written into the history books as the #23 best player available in the draft. Just like Flowers was the 9th best a few years back too I guess.
Come on...think harder than that.
Lastly, each team's draft board won't look anything like your coveted mocks, you must know that, or don't you...
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In comment 13550289 Jimmy Googs said:
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In comment 13550285 UConn4523 said:
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your entire argument on this was based off of mocks...
Is yours based off all the GMs that showed you their draft boards? Or the rumors that some teams leaked to their beat-writers about tight ends? its all the same shit...
Doesn't have to be based off of other teams draft boards. The Giants picked him at 23. So, there is more proof in our argument than yours. The pick was actually made, we aren't basing ours on anything other than real life. It really happened. No mocks needed or conjecture or rumors. The Giants made the pick based on all of the information they had, which is a much better indicator of where his draft value was than your continued efforts to simply say "REACH"!!!
Huh? So they picked him at #23 so he is written into the history books as the #23 best player available in the draft. Just like Flowers was the 9th best a few years back too I guess.
Come on...think harder than that.
Haha! You're telling me to think harder than that when my point is proven by FACT (ya know, he was actually TAKEN and another TE was taken two picks later) and yours is all based on your favorite web sites mock drafts. Holy fuck, man.
Maybe you should offer to pay for a subscription to one of your sites for Reese to use during the draft. Clearly those guys know more than he does and you obviously agree with that.
And just so ya know, the Giants
Lastly, each team's draft board won't look anything like your coveted mocks, you must know that, or don't you...
I Howard and Njoku were labeled as the first round TEs on almost any expert/non-expert's list. Cleveland's move can be looked at in many different ways but usually not the team I refer to when explaining good draft judgment...
Huh? So they picked him at #23 so he is written into the history books as the #23 best player available in the draft. Just like Flowers was the 9th best a few years back too I guess.
Come on...think harder than that.
Haha! You're telling me to think harder than that when my point is proven by FACT (ya know, he was actually TAKEN and another TE was taken two picks later) and yours is all based on your favorite web sites mock drafts. Holy fuck, man.
Maybe you should offer to pay for a subscription to one of your sites for Reese to use during the draft. Clearly those guys know more than he does and you obviously agree with that.
And just so ya know, the Giants
Why is it so impossible to believe that he might have been taken earlier by Giants than his value warrants?
I am all-in on them needing an athletic TE and Engram certainly fits the bill. But by ignoring the position for years in the draft, my view is that reached somewhat in grabbing him because they were so desperate to fix the offense and, as such, pulled the trigger on him early. Clearly drafting strategies take on all forms but I subscribe to a hybrid of the value of the draft slot and the value of the player taken. Not just the value of the player taken...
Nevertheless, I actually really like a guy such as Engram on this team. But am open-minded to at least debate/suggest he went earlier than I would have thought...
The guy was graded out very well by 2 guys on this board, one of which does scouting outside of the Giants organization. His grading wasn't based on the Giants needs, rather, rankings in general. Sy also ranks based on position and not specific to Giant needs although he does provide that POV as well.
3 TEs went in the first (fact), the Giants passed on Njoku (fact, who was a 1st in your mocks) to take Engram and then 6 picks later Cleveland traded up for Njoku (fact). And Cleveland has a new GM who's actually someone that's looked highly upon so I really don't care what Brown's history says since it's pretty irrelevant.
TEs, specifically those built like Reed continue to prove their importance year after year. Every team wants one. Personally I didn't think we'd go TE round 1 but I understand why we did and I much preferred Engram to Njoku who I wanted no part of.
Nevertheless, I actually really like a guy such as Engram on this team. But am open-minded to at least debate/suggest he went earlier than I would have thought...
I don't hate on BBIers. I just hate on the ones that are constantly negative. It drives me crazy. Certain posters ALWAYS find a reason to whine, bitch, moan and complain about anything and everything. It's like clockwork with some guys. You can count on it in every thread. I have no problem calling these guys out because they deserve it. You're not one of the worst offenders but you are absolutely much more negative in your posts than positive. This thread is a perfect example. Of all the things to comment on, of course you chose the "He was right on one thing, Engram was a reach" portion. Because you enjoy negativity. Nobody is asking you to wave Pom pims all the time but some balance would be nice.
The guy was graded out very well by 2 guys on this board, one of which does scouting outside of the Giants organization. His grading wasn't based on the Giants needs, rather, rankings in general. Sy also ranks based on position and not specific to Giant needs although he does provide that POV as well.
3 TEs went in the first (fact), the Giants passed on Njoku (fact, who was a 1st in your mocks) to take Engram and then 6 picks later Cleveland traded up for Njoku (fact). And Cleveland has a new GM who's actually someone that's looked highly upon so I really don't care what Brown's history says since it's pretty irrelevant.
Fair post other than you keep going back the mock-well which is not the case. Sy is a nice resource but there are others outside of the BBI world too. I am glad we have him to share his views but they are not the only ones in the football world...
TEs, specifically those built like Reed continue to prove their importance year after year. Every team wants one. Personally I didn't think we'd go TE round 1 but I understand why we did and I much preferred Engram to Njoku who I wanted no part of.
Agree that going earlier doesn't have to definitely mean a reach as that is a subjective view. However, I used it because at the top of draft the picks are so much more valuable...meaning a diff between 23 and 33 is extremely meaningful.
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it is interesting how often we seem to cross paths. Not sure why, but whatever. And you may not believe me but I actually do agree with your views more than not when I see them. Probably more Uconn versus Shock who just seems to enjoy hating on BBIers.
Nevertheless, I actually really like a guy such as Engram on this team. But am open-minded to at least debate/suggest he went earlier than I would have thought...
I don't hate on BBIers. I just hate on the ones that are constantly negative. It drives me crazy. Certain posters ALWAYS find a reason to whine, bitch, moan and complain about anything and everything. It's like clockwork with some guys. You can count on it in every thread. I have no problem calling these guys out because they deserve it. You're not one of the worst offenders but you are absolutely much more negative in your posts than positive. This thread is a perfect example. Of all the things to comment on, of course you chose the "He was right on one thing, Engram was a reach" portion. Because you enjoy negativity. Nobody is asking you to wave Pom pims all the time but some balance would be nice.
Don't agree. Calling out posters, other than for some harmless humor, is just flat out wrong. I throw out (or try) some sarcasm to make it softer but you simply don't. You berate them.
Do you call out the endless optimists, Giant-homers who believe everything the Giants do is gold they can do no wrong? They bring nothing to table other than the same pom-poms you refer to, so why not hit them for being silly worthless minds looking for the winning lottery ticket?
I make critical comments for sure, but stand by the opinions to the end (such as my comments for Herzlich, A. Adams, Eli's play versus the Eagles to name a few).
just sayin'...
I live in ATL and heard it all.
I live in ATL and heard it all.
That's not what Engram himself said. I've heard others say the Falcons wanted Engram too.
Falcons & 49ers “Trying Like Crazy” To Trade Up In Round 1 - Nate Bouda - April 27, 2017 - ( New Window )
I live in ATL and heard it all.
Doesn't this stance refute your critique of everyone else "listening to beat writers"? If you are going to take what's said publicly with a grain of salt (which I usually always do) then you can pick and choose when to apply that logic.
Falcons, Steelers, Browns, even the Packers were all linked to Engram in some way shape or form. No different than a pass rusher linked to the Falcons.