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NYP: Don’t be afraid to get excited about this Giants team

Eric from BBI : Admin : 8/7/2017 10:13 am
Eight practices into training camp and the Giants have been good, they’ve been lucky and they’ve done nothing to temper the simmering expectations swirling around their 2017 season.

There is a long way to go and nothing is ever won in early August, but anyone having happy palpitations and thinking big thoughts should anticipate an accelerated heart rate the remainder of the summer. The Giants are not a perfect team and there will be bumps along the way. After more than a week of camp, though, their strengths were reinforced as their concerns regressed.

Eight practices into camp, the Giants are pretty darn good.


Don’t be afraid to get excited about this Giants team - ( New Window )
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I won't let myself get excited  
wigs in nyc : 8/7/2017 11:24 am : link
there's too much you don't know until the bullets start flying. Not to mention, every coah in the league would prefer their team to be considered underdogs on a given day. It has been recent history that the Giants will play down to their competition when favored, and so I'm not buying in at all until it's proved. Not even a few early wins will shake me. For a short season, it's pretty long.
I don't consider the schedule ''brutal'' at all  
Overseer : 8/7/2017 11:25 am : link
Seahawks is a home game (away you could probably pencil in an L).

@ Raiders and @ Broncos are the only really shitty draws.

Every other n/d game favors NYG.
When- I think about the talent level on this team  
Dave on the UWS : 8/7/2017 11:25 am : link
at this time just 2 years ago and compare it to now- Reese catches a lot of crap but he has done one heck of a job the last 24 months. No way to know what will happen but they have to be right at the top of the heap for SB hopefuls. As a fan I can't expect more than that. This season will be fun no matter how it turns out. I lived through the late 60s and 70s those seasons were NOT fun believe me.
Go Terps : 8/7/2017 11:25 am : link
There are only two teams for whom it makes sense to predict anything outside of 6-10 to 10-6: New England and Cleveland.

I am afraid, I'm very afraid  
PatersonPlank : 8/7/2017 11:26 am : link
it's a shame  
cactus : 8/7/2017 11:27 am : link
that with all this talent in place and at this point in eli's career they didn't address the offensive line.
To add to what...  
FatMan in Charlotte : 8/7/2017 11:29 am : link
arc said, on paper, the NFC East teams have the hardest schedules in the league, having to play the AFC and NFC West divisions - lots of travel and teams that have good records last year.

I think 10 wins can win the division and any teams that don't win the division will be drawing the short stick at one of the two WC spots.

But I think we will win the division. Taking division games will be more important than ever this year.
RE: .  
arcarsenal : 8/7/2017 11:29 am : link
In comment 13551539 Go Terps said:
There are only two teams for whom it makes sense to predict anything outside of 6-10 to 10-6: New England and Cleveland.

I pretty much agree - though I think the Jets are a very safe bet to finish worse than 6-10 this year. Their offense is going to be very, very bad.
More teams on paper have crumbled up than  
Mike in Long Beach : 8/7/2017 11:34 am : link
I'll ever be able to count.

Having said that, this is a great team on paper. Oddly enough, my biggest concern is Eli showing his age. I'm not predicting it will happen, but it's plausible.
Route 9 : 8/7/2017 11:41 am : link
Yeah, I get what he (arc) means with that Philly comparison. He does have a point too because everyone was slurping up the Eagles going into 2011, with all the guys they signed and the hype behind the 2010 Giants comeback.

I’ve been kind of excited for this season but have been holding back on it. I am seeing more “Giants positivity” comments in the media and everyone seems excited when the Giants get brought up, I said “Shhhhhh! when everyone says the Giants are going to suck, thats when they have no shot. Duh.”

Seriously though, I think last year the team was good enough to go to the Super Bowl and face New England again. I think they just got unlucky playing Green Bay and Rodgers on the road in the first round. I certainly thought they were DEFINITELY good enough to beat Dallas in the second round. I had no fear about playing those clowns and the Giants beating them again.

Last year is over though, this is a completely new year. If this is the year to win the whole thing, this team is it. Only thing AGAIN, I’m still troubled about is that stupid offensive line with the same fucking names starring back at me, with nothing changed. Really? John Jerry for the past 4 years as a starter? Either way, if Ben and the play calling is consistent and isn’t God awful like it was last year on offense, at times, then I’m fine. Let this defense be punishing and give the fans at MetLife something to get LOUD about just like last year. By December that place was insanely loud.

Hopefully Odell puts on his big boy pants if the playoffs do come up again, unlike last season. That was a disappointment. That game should’ve been closer and a dog fight until the end but I really don’t have any issues with losing to the greatest (or one of) QB in the league in January. Nothing wrong with that. The score doesn’t bother me.

I just wanna get summer the fuck over with so we can get to football already.
That's when they have no shot and win the Super Bowl  
Route 9 : 8/7/2017 11:42 am : link
Is what I meant
As a long time fan  
PaulN : 8/7/2017 11:44 am : link
I am always optimistic, but never get carried away because experience has taught me how many things can derail a very good football team.

With that said there were two seasons when I had my hopes the highest, the first was prior to the 1986 season, the only thing that kept me in check was that we had not won a Super Bowl yet.

The second season was the 2008 season, nothing could quell my optimism on that season, I was convinced we were the best team by far.

needless to say I was 1 out of two. I will admit this is the third time I have got that kind of good feeling about our team. I do not see a team out there that I look at and say we can't beat that team. The only two things that keep me a little cautious is the offensive line of coarse, and Eli, he has had a very good run that we need to continue, and he needs to raise his level of play this season, I think that is something he can and will do.
The 1989 Giants should've won a SB  
Jints in Carolina : 8/7/2017 11:46 am : link
Fuck you Flipper Anderson.
RE: RE: .  
Big Blue '56 : 8/7/2017 11:53 am : link
In comment 13551496 Keith said:
In comment 13551486 arcarsenal said:


All I'm saying is...

Don't be surprised if we don't surpass our win total from last year.

There's a good chance this winds up being a 10-11 win team.

This isn't like the NBA where you just say "well, they have LeBron so they're going to the Finals"

I'm not trying to be a wet blanket, but there are a lot of moving parts in football and sometimes all it takes is one mistake at an inopportune time to lose a game. Divisional games are always close and there's not going to be a single team in this division that is easy to beat the way the Cardinals used to be or the way WSH has been a lot of times.

I don't put much weight on our schedule because you never really know who is going to be as tough or as bad as they were the year prior - but we certainly won't have an easy one.

I'm cautiously optimistic - I just think posters who think this team is winning 13-14 games might want to lower the bar just a tad before they wind up disappointed.

The OL could still cause a lot of problems for this team. If they can't prevent DE's from racing around the edge and getting to Eli before he hits his last dropback step, a lot of drives could go down the tubes. We can't keep Ellison attached to Flowers' hip on every pass play.

Now this I agree with. I don't like the Philly comparison, but this is spot on. The NFL changes week to week. Things can change in a split second. I think this team is loaded with talent, but the most talented teams don't always win in the NFL.

True, but if in tact, teams with an Eli can and should go deep, imo..Of course and unlike 2008, we don't lose an OBJ and/or field a weakened/fatigued D
They're talented for sure  
KWALL2 : 8/7/2017 12:01 pm : link
Engram's explosive play will have a big impact. Very deep at the key positions except at OL.

A lot of very talented teams in NFC. TB and Arz will have excellent defenses and could be playoff teams. Plus Sea, GB, Atl, DAL DET and NO.
All with excellent QBs.

DET had a pretty good defense last year and drafted all defense. They've Good and fast in the back end on D. Slay is awesome. Stafford gives them a shot to make a run. He needed a big play guy. I don't think it's Jones who disappears too much. They guy to watch is the rookie Kenny Golladay. Huge and fast and impressing everybody. If you're drafting FF early, draft this guy and thank me later.

NFC is much deeper than AFC.. Giants are talented for sure but they could play well and still not make the playoffs.
Everyone is entitled to their opinion  
MasherJints : 8/7/2017 12:19 pm : link
That does not mean that one should curtail ones expectations according to others skepticism or pessimism. I have been stating continuously that the 2017 New York Football Giants are going to become a juggernaut. That if the OL can improve becoming consistent there is no team on their schedule who can be considered favored over them.

None of the 2017 opponents have a match up advantage on the Giants. While there is none the 2017 Giants can't match up with. Last years D was a fledgling compared to the 2017 version. DC Spagnoulo is again trotting out many of his pressure packages from a 3 safety look. The D is developing a distinct aggressive persona which is evolving continuously with each practice in training camp.

The O is revealing a plethora of weapons that will prove a nightmare for opposing DC's to contain. The OL is deep with young talent that have shown a nasty disposition, which will manifest cohesion from there continuous battles with this D. Such attitude is always present for a good rushing attack. Give our franchise QB trust in his blockers and he will revert back to 2011, when Eli carried the team till they awoke to complement for the championship run.

In GB, Eli showed that he has not lost his playoff alter ego. Therefore given the continuous evidence of what is developing in East Rutherford we should be encouraged. I believe without reserve that the 2017 Giants have a champion roster. Not only for this season but dynasty level. The Giants are very young, 95% of the roster is either in their prime or on their rookie contract. Excluding Eli Manning, DeOssie, Marshall, DRC, Herzlich and Casillas every other member on the final roster will be under 30.

We are entering a new era in the Giants legacy, therefore embrace it, proclaim it and be blessed by it! I have been a fan and Giants supporter since 1964, my old handle was Makogman and I see a comparison with the 49er dynasty in talent. The skill positions are loaded with talented playmakers, the fronts talented with nasty depositions and a franchise QB as a field general.

12-4, 13-3, 14-2, better is all within the ability of the 2017 Giants. Just a caveat, imagine 2007 only the roles reversed and we go the distance. That is not out of the realm of possibility. Therefore believe in what you see, trust in your instincts, for there is a great possibility that they will be proven correct.
I'm excited and  
Simms11 : 8/7/2017 12:22 pm : link
they will be capable of sticking with the top teams in the league this year, which gives them a chance in any given game. The schedule is difficult, but they have the horses this year to manage it. Can't make predictions and usually when there's this much buzz around a team, they fail to cash in. I just hope the Giants stay hungry and get back into the playoffs. Anything can happen after that.
RE: Of all my time on BBI  
est1986 : 8/7/2017 12:55 pm : link
In comment 13551409 Jay on the Island said:
I can't remember a single training camp where the training camp reports were so positive on a daily basis as they have been this year.

I can't remember a better Giants team on Paper in the 'Eli Manning era' maybe even beyond this era. Today's team is really good. Coaching and health will be a big factor if they reach the top.
If they stay healthy  
AnnapolisMike : 8/7/2017 12:56 pm : link
And take care of business within the division they should make the playoffs. Ultimately, health will play the biggest part in what happens to this team. No team is good enough to overcome a excessive number of injuries.

Here's a possibility to consider  
Greg from LI : 8/7/2017 12:58 pm : link
They might be a markedly improved team and finish with the same record as last season, or even 10-6. I'm not gonna get hung up on w/l records. I'm more interested on how likely they are to make a playoff run.
RE: Here's a possibility to consider  
Big Blue '56 : 8/7/2017 1:05 pm : link
In comment 13551721 Greg from LI said:
They might be a markedly improved team and finish with the same record as last season, or even 10-6. I'm not gonna get hung up on w/l records. I'm more interested on how likely they are to make a playoff run.

Not for nuttin', but each year my predictions for this team is PLAYOFFS..I don't bother with W-L record projections..Just get in and I'll take my chances with Eli, assuming we're not missing key parts at that time
Bad Things Happen...  
looie : 8/7/2017 1:28 pm : link soon as people start writing articles like this.
Met an old  
oldog : 8/7/2017 1:35 pm : link
friend, a SF fan, who said, "Too bad about the Giants this year,just no Karma". What?? I challenged. "Yeah, they just look way too good this year, but when they win they come out of nowhere".
Overseer : 8/7/2017 1:48 pm : link
In comment 13551712 est1986 said:
I can't remember a better Giants team on Paper in the 'Eli Manning era' maybe even beyond this era. Today's team is really good. Coaching and health will be a big factor if they reach the top.

Nope, still take 2008 pre-moron.

Clearly 2017 has more elite talent with Beckham, Harrison, Collins, and DRC/Jenkins. Tuck is a wash and although obviously inferior to OV, Kiwi was no slouch with his hand in the dirt (v Pittsburgh stands out especially).

And were the 2017 Oline even at average level, I'd favor the 2017 team decidedly, but there is simply no comparison between:

Diehl, Seubert, O'Hara, prime Snee, and Kareem (who all started 16 games IIRC.)

and 2017 which has 1 single proven & consistent Olineman.

Brandon Jacobs and especially Derrick Ward were not some world beater RBs. But duel 1k rushers is rare.

Then there's Eli Manning himself.

Not to diminish the current talent which I'm excited about, but 2008 was the definition of just a SOLID team.

(Fuck you Plax).

wow, over a million views now - ( New Window )
What's exciting is these reports are on a team that won 11 last year  
BillT : 8/7/2017 2:12 pm : link
This team has dominant defensive talent. That's just a fact. They patched up an offense with thin skill position talent and they now have, at the very least, very good skill position talent. And many the guys we we're hoping to step up, Apple, Goodson, Thompson, Bromley, Thomas, Hart, Pugh, Ellison, Marshall and more are doing just that. Looking good.
Other than at RB and OL  
Chris684 : 8/7/2017 2:19 pm : link
Where is the 2008 roster better than 2017? Again if you're looking at talent on paper and not counting 2008 performance at all.

2008 OL was elite.
2008 RBs were elite.
2017 WRs are better.
2017 TEs are better.
2017 DL is better (remember no Osi).
2017 LBs are better.
2017 Secondary is elite.
arcarsenal : 8/7/2017 2:26 pm : link
Eli was nearly 10 years younger in 2008 and we had an elite ground game to go with a legit WR1 in Burress, Toomer, and an emerging Steve Smith.

Not sure what the basis for saying the 2017 TE group is better is based on... Evan Engram hasn't played an NFL game yet. No one in this group has proven anything. Boss was never anything spectacular but he was good for 6 TD's in 2008.

The 2008 defense was a top 5 unit.

Dallas showed last year that when you have a dominant OL and a dominant ground game it has a trickle-down effect in many different ways.

First, it takes a LOT of heat off the QB. Teams can't play coverage or take men out of the box when you keep steamrolling them up front, so the QB is looking at single coverage often, can use play-action effectively, and you can also play a possession game that keeps the other team's offense off the field and wears down the opposing defense.

The biggest weakness the Giants have right now is... the OL.
The O line is 5 positions  
Overseer : 8/7/2017 2:26 pm : link
and when you have a 36 y/o immobile QB, its capability is extremely important to your team's success.

2008 was 4.5/5 for capability (Diehl being the .5).

2017 is 1.5/5 (although, to be fair, indications are Richburg was playing hurt in 2016).

Without that discrepancy, ofc 2017 reigns supreme by a wide margin.

But it's too large a discrepancy to overlook when comparing the respective rosters.
^ not overlook  
Overseer : 8/7/2017 2:27 pm : link
minimize* the better word.
I'm basing it on the fact that it was Kevin Boss and NOTHING  
Chris684 : 8/7/2017 2:35 pm : link
Michael Matthews? Darcy Johnson?

Boss was ok. I find it hard to believe there's not Kevin Boss type production from this year's TE group and then some.

Really the only argument is 2008 Eli vs 2017 Eli and again, the fact that Eli was the best player on the field (for NYG) in January in Green Bay should put some minds at ease.

Goals Are The Same & Focus On One At A Time  
Trainmaster : 8/7/2017 2:36 pm : link
1) Win the division getting an automatic "Invitation to the dance"
2) Get a first round bye
3) Get number 1 seed
4) Win the first playoff game (I.e. Don't peak too early / get too confident (see 2011 15-1 Packers))
5) Win second playoff game and get to Super Bowl
6) Win another damn Super Bowl! (Remember to 2000 season)

arcarsenal : 8/7/2017 2:36 pm : link
Eli is not the only argument. The 2008 OL was significantly better than this group.

Dallas literally just won 13 games based almost entirely on the fact that they had an elite OL. Every single aspect of that team was borne out of the fact that they could control clock and wear teams down on the ground.

Dak Prescott never has the type of year he just had behind the OL we have.
Yea but you're forgetting  
Chris684 : 8/7/2017 2:39 pm : link
that this team won 11 games last year with a less experienced OL, and zero skill position players outside of Odell.

So the overall roster makeup is dependent on whether or not the OL is great?
I'm not even arguing that this team is guaranteed anything because  
Chris684 : 8/7/2017 2:43 pm : link
of it, but I feel it's overall a better roster.

2008 was a more talented roster than 2011 for sure. Look at the results.

Doesnt change the fact that I'd take this roster over any in the Eli era.
arcarsenal : 8/7/2017 2:46 pm : link
I didn't claim that at any point.

All I'm saying is that you can't just gloss over it and assume it won't be an issue because everything else is better. Poor OL play can still wreck games by itself and it can neutralize the strength of our skill players.

Odell/Marshall/Shep/Engram sounds wonderful on paper but if Eli is constantly under duress, it won't matter.

Eli also had a sub-par year last year so if it was because of the OL, there's not a whole lot of reasons to believe that will change. If it was simply because he had a down year on his own merit, is one game in GB enough to give everyone confidence that it was nothing more than an off year?

Saying "we won 11 games last year and our roster is better on paper now, so we will win more than 11 games this year" sounds like sound logic, but in the NFL, it often doesn't work out like that because there are so many other factors that come into play.
KWALL2 : 8/7/2017 3:33 pm : link
Saying "we won 11 games last year and our roster is better on paper now, so we will win more than 11 games this year" sounds like sound logic

I wouldn't call it sound logic if you don't even factor the tougher schedule and talent around the conference.

It's going to be a very tough road in the conference this year. It's wide open. Giants could play good ball and fail to make the playoffs.
RE: ?  
arcarsenal : 8/7/2017 3:35 pm : link
In comment 13551935 KWALL2 said:


Saying "we won 11 games last year and our roster is better on paper now, so we will win more than 11 games this year" sounds like sound logic

I wouldn't call it sound logic if you don't even factor the tougher schedule and talent around the conference.

It's going to be a very tough road in the conference this year. It's wide open. Giants could play good ball and fail to make the playoffs.

Did you read my post? You're quoting me out of context.
Are you kidding me?  
Giantfan in skinland : 8/7/2017 4:04 pm : link
I'm petrified to get excited about this Giants team. Doing everything I can to avoid it. They're plenty talented. But preseasons have had a way of destroying good Giants teams before.

As noted above, I'll start getting excited near the end of the season if we're in hunt and we're relatively healthy.
Eli is the key, IMO  
Ron Johnson 30 : 8/7/2017 4:09 pm : link
if he plays well the Giants will make some noise.
On paper..  
SFGFNCGiantsFan : 8/7/2017 4:32 pm : link
A legitimate Super Bowl contender.

Let's pray we luck out with injuries.
Route 9 : 8/7/2017 5:41 pm : link
2008 just wowed me along after each game the Giants were winning, no Strahan or Osi and they were still dominant. If it wasn’t after the 2007 Super Bowl victory just that same year I would’ve been going crazy. We all knew the rest with Plaxico.

I’ll, of course, take 10-6 and a SB victory over going 12-4 or w/e with home field advantage. At the same time, I would like some more playoff games in NJ. After the Ravens SB I think we’ve only had 3 for us to attend. That Atlanta game was so fucking wild. Second best game I've ever been to (after 2014 ECF for NY Rangers vs Montreal)

I’d say 2005 was the season I anticipated the most, this might be second. Someone mentioned 2003 as well, I’d put that up there for me too.
If, and it is a big if,  
section125 : 8/7/2017 6:02 pm : link
the offensive line is anywhere near league average this could be a dominant team and able to beat any team in the NFL.
Seems they have decent depth at almost every position, even Oline. There may actually be no let down because of injury on the oline.
Route 9 : 8/7/2017 6:33 pm : link
So whats the deal with Flowers? Does he have a short leash or something? Haven’t really been paying attention to any off season chatter (not that they would give away anything ever, have an interesting press conference) or is he still going to continue to be God awful, yet keep his position all season long? Is Fluker a failsafe for him or something?
arcarsenal : 8/7/2017 6:35 pm : link
2012 was another season that I think people expected to play out much differently than it had.

Coming off a Super Bowl victory, having a litany of pass rushers including a young, ascending JPP who looked like a superstar in the making, a trio of WR's who were virtually unstoppable down the stretch the previous year, a defense that really kicked it up in the playoffs.

Hell, we even started 6-2 and everything seemed like it was going according to plan.. and then the bottom just completely fell out from under that team and it became an absolutely disastrous finish to the year. The game in Atlanta was flat out embarrassing.

You just never know.

Re 2012 6-2 start:  
Big Blue '56 : 8/7/2017 7:50 pm : link
As I recall the injury bottoming out began to rear its ugly head..By the time we faced the Falcons and Ravens et al, we were an embarrassing shell of what we were the first 8 games, imv..
ironically it is the defense that worries me.  
NYDCBlue : 8/7/2017 9:07 pm : link
Lot of posts on this thread. I am unfortunately, probably not breaking any new territory here, but our defensive depth sucks. Particularly at Nickle/Slot Corner, and SAM Linebacker.

Hopefully Bromely and someone else can step up to aliviate the worries at DT or else I really worry about even a mild run of injuries on our defensive side.

Also, I only did not bring up our MIKE depth because I assume that Robinson will swallow a lot of those snaps in the nickel/dime.
arcarsenal : 8/7/2017 10:25 pm : link
Does our defensive depth really "suck"?

Sometimes I see people make claims like that and wonder what exactly it's based on. Are there a list of teams that we can point to and say "see, this team definitely has better depth on the defensive side of the ball than we do.." ?

I'm genuinely curious.

I feel like the vast majority of NFL teams' starters along the defensive line aren't even as good as ours, nor are their DB's.
Route 9 : 8/7/2017 11:12 pm : link
Who knows? Bob Papa said once on the radio that the things we as Giants fans have issues with every other team has issues with, such as glaring needs at a particular position or whatever. Then again, who knows? Does another team have the same shitty group of offensive linemen for 4+ years? I am starting to follow the all 32 teams around the league less and less. I don't have time for that.
Plus the AFC ( especially with Peyton Manning retired)  
Route 9 : 8/7/2017 11:13 pm : link
is decided already. Patriots back in the Super Bowl. No matter what.
I think most long time Giants fans  
Jersey55 : 8/11/2017 10:42 am : link
are afraid to get excited about the team before the season starts because we've had our guts ripped out so many times before when the team turns into shit after the first game...however I will say this team does look like a more quality team than we've had in years but it still will come down to the O line and their success or failure.....
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