Sack numbers depressed by playing in the NFC East.
We play some of the best tackle combinations in football and last year played some of the best o-lines in football.
Dallas has Smith and now Collins
Washington has Williams and Moses
Philly has peters and Johnson
Last year we played Green Bay twice.
My point being that these are excellent pass rushers who might just be playing excellent blockers and that's why they didn't break double digits
In sacks last year
Vs. NFC East
Games: 6
Sacks: 2
Vs. Others
Games: 11
Sacks: 6.5
Pierre-Paul
Vs. NFC East
Games: 3
Sacks: 1
Vs. Others
Games: 9
Sacks: 6
It's primarily why out of division games can be unpredictable.
You play in a division w/the Giants? Better do something to protect your QB, or you're going to get ripped apart twice a year.
I think JPP missed 3 NFC East games last season if I'm not mistaken.
We played Dallas @ home (Okwara game), @ Philly and @ Washington down the stretch without JPP.
As noted, there are some top tackles in this division, none better than Tyron Smith who will be a HOF lock when hangs them up and JPP has given him plenty of trouble in their one on one matchups through the years.
Minus jack rabbit who wasnt dreadful vs the packers.. Vernon made the all pro team for a reason pal.
sacks are not the only measurement
Tough crowd. If we are going with one or two bad games at the standard, there's not a player in the NFL who had a great season
Clowney, ffs. He was only the first overall pick in the draft.
Just for perspective: Eli Manning was sacked less than the other three starting QBs in the East, despite throwing far more passes than Prescott and about the same number as Cousins and Wentz. Would it be fair to say pass-rushers in the division had their numbers curbed by having to face Ereck Flowers, Bobby Hart and company twice?
Likely because of the hand, granted. But we don't need to pretend he had a season he didn't.
Healthy in 2017, such a characterization ("all year") will likely be accurate.
Likely because of the hand, granted. But we don't need to pretend he had a season he didn't.
Healthy in 2017, such a characterization ("all year") will likely be accurate.
Wtf? Vernon was voted 2nd team All Pro, lol. So, who's pretending at this point?
Cleveland sent 2 o-lineman to the Pro Bowl last season including a guy named Joe Thomas, not chopped liver.
The pressure from our d-line basically saved both of those games against inferior competition in the middle of the season. I'm not sure why we want to take that away from them?
I remember thinking during/after that game..."uh, $85 million for this guy?", thoughts which were duly negated once news of the injury came out.
His overall great season was overwhelmingly due to the ~2nd half of it.
I'm not really sure what point was being refuted by saying he was absolutely dreadful in a game, as if Beckham being poor in a game should negate any of his other contributions.
Very strange angle there.
1. His injury. From the reports I read, it's amazing that he played through it.
2. New coach, new system, new personnel. There were a lot of new pieces on this defense and it took some time to gel.
All that being said, OV was very solid early in the season. He was pressuring the QB and he was stopping the run. He wasn't disruptive until the defense started to gel. Maybe he started to heal, maybe they all just clicked together, but he wasn't dreadful or even not good for the first half. It's BS to suggest otherwise.
Why are we even judging him on one game in week 5 anyway? Ok, so you saw that he had a bad game, kudos to you coach.
Bakhtiari and Bulaga are an excellent pair of tackles. Just putting it all out there.
If only the WR group could take such abuse for the no show against the broken down Packer secondary.
I'm not really sure what point was being refuted by saying he was absolutely dreadful in a game, as if Beckham being poor in a game should negate any of his other contributions.
Very strange angle there.
Thank you for reminding me of the relevance of the injury (with capital AND and all), which I referenced in all 3 of my posts on this thread.
Didn't say he was a bad player. Didn't say he was dogging it at any point.
Merely contested the contention that he was "great all year." He wasn't. The fact that his 2nd half play stood out in such a pronounced manner should underscore this.
Keith pointed out some excellent points why, but even when the DL wasn't getting pressures and sacks, they were containing the run, and as a unit really only struggled vs. Minny and GB.
Using the standard that an All-Pro wasn't great "all year" based on a small set where he didn't stand out on the stat sheet seems like something that could be said about any All-Pro player.
Like I said above - strange angle to take. Both in trying to refute that Vernon was great last year and the continued view that he was only propped up by his second half.
But noticing the capitalization was good. I guess my emphasis was noted....
It also is not a statistic I'd ever heard brought up here until last year, when it became the only number that could be provided to support the notion that JPP and Vernon were the elite players their contracts say they are.
I'll point to Big Blue Blogger's post above...they were certainly dominant against Cleveland and Chicago.
Rather than dig through a dozen clips, I’ll cite Eric’s reviews:
VIKINGS
This is not what the Giants expected. With both primary offensive tackles out of the game, defensive ends Jason Pierre-Paul and Olivier Vernon were non-factors in a game where the Giants expected and needed them to make a difference.
PACKERS
The Giants simply are not getting their money’s worth from Jason Pierre-Paul and Olivier Vernon. The Giants had no sacks and only three QB hits – one by Vernon, one by Damon Harrison, and one by Johnathan Hankins. This is the third time in five games where the Giants don’t have a sack. Indeed, there were more than a few plays where Rodgers had all the time in the world to throw. It was embarrassing.
RAVENS
The Giants did generate more heat on the quarterback with week. Johnathan Hankins had one sack and Jason Pierre-Paul and Romeo Okwara did register hits on the quarterback. But it was nowhere nearly enough. Olivier Vernon (2 tackles) was very quiet.
RAMS PREVIEW
Game plan is simple. Stop Gurley. Make the Rams one dimensional and get after Keenum – a journeyman quarterback coming off a strong game but who someone the Giants should be able to rattle if they can pressure on him. It’s well past time for Jason Pierre-Paul and Olivier Vernon to have a breakout game.
Again, I did not write he wasn’t “great last year.” He was, overall. I contested the description: “Vernon was great all year”.
If Lebron shoots 2/16 in the first half, then 18/20 in the 2nd, he & Lue are happy at the end of the 4th (assuming the Cavs won), but it’s simply not accurate to say James was “great all game.”
Who is Crowley?
I seriously think you might not even watch football.
Football is a team sport. Just because a team sucks, doesnt mean all of their individual units suck. As I stated above, Cleveland's o-line boasts one of the top tackles in the league, plus another pro bowler. Is Joe Thomas an "easy" individual matchup because his team sucks (mainly because they are in QB hell)?
You can point to Cleveland and Chicago all you want, but the pass rush put those games on ice for the rest of the team that apparently wasnt doing much to decide the outcome in any other phase of the game.
OV's price tag turns people off, I get it. But he put up a solid season with a shattered hand.
As for JPP, I've defended him for a couple of years against opinions that, quite frankly, lead me to question what people are watching at times.
That's because Jay Cutler started only 5 games. In the 5 games he played he was sacked 17 times. The Bears conceded only 11 sacks in the other 11 games.
Cutler is prone to high sack numbers; that's been no secret for years.
Someone above posted that he expects double digit sack seasons each for JPP and Vernon. It's a strange prediction given that JPP has achieved that twice in seven seasons, and Vernon has done it once in five.
The Giants spend more money than any team in the NFL at the defensive end position. In 2017 I'll be hoping for an output befitting the investment, and not a performance that needs to be rationalized with the nebulous "pressures" statistic.
You were wrong and continue to be wrong about JPP. He's a leader, he's changed the way he approaches the game, he works hard, he's a difference maker and he has proven to be almost as effective despite his injury. YOU WERE WRONG, let it go.
They both played really well last year, and were two-way players, excelling against both the pass and the run.
I'm guessing if you hadn't dug your heels in on the disdain for paying the defensive players as much as they got, that this wouldn't be the take.
Vernon was one of the best DE's in football last year, and that isn't just a reflection of stats or hurries - it is a reflection on how well he contained the run and was able to rush the passer too. JPP had a similar impact.
Last year when somebody thought JPP would get at least 15 sacks, I said he'll struggle to get double-digits, and he always will, IMO. But his worth is more than sack totals, and this is coming from a guy who thought JPP was a complete moron for blowing off his hand, and I'd have had no qualms with them letting him go. That doesn't negate the fact he played really well.
In fact, my opinion has never caused a guy to play better or worse, except in my own eyes.....
But on this one, I'm not, or at least I haven't been yet. I hope to be completely wrong in 2017. If I am I'll admit it to you and even to the two mouthbreathers knocking me here.
If you think they need to be causing several turnovers or getting a few key sacks every game to be dominant, then they'll never meet that standard. I'd be fine with them controlling the line from outside rushes and getting pressures and sacks to force teams to punt. And that's ignoring the distinct possibility there were times Spags dialed tehem back because the secondary was shutting teams down.
We've seen how losing DL guys in the past had a trickle down to the secondary and how losing DB's had a similar impact on the DL. But IMO, the reason the giants D was so successful is because they had Collins and Jackrabbit in the back and OV and JPP up front.
I really don't know what more you are looking for from a dominant standpoint unless you're just wanting some highlight reel plays or are expecting the very small liklihood they are going to cause multiple fumbles and take them to the house.
RE: Terps how do you feel about JJ Watt?
Go Terps : 2/22/2017 7:02 pm : link
I think he's overrated, and have said so here in the past. To be fair I haven't watched a huge number of Texans games, but in those I have I've never seen him make a play when it matters.
I'm not surprised that you're the type of person to use an expression like "False news". Fucking moron.
Go Terps : 2/22/2017 7:02 pm : link
I think he's overrated, and have said so here in the past. To be fair I haven't watched a huge number of Texans games, but in those I have I've never seen him make a play when it matters.
I'll concede your point that it's possible that Spags dialed them back because of the quality in the secondary.
Keith starting to get pretty nasty so Imma duck out. Enjoy your Tuesdays.
You know I'd never go after you like I do the morons because there's too many other times you've posted really good stuff - but you really are biased when it comes to JPP and the money we spent from the defensive guys.
Embrace them!! I look at it this way - I've never seen another team spend a boatload in FA and turn a unit around like the Giants did. Yes, it was $200M, but at least it was spent wisely. They bought an Arab steed that took a Triple Crown race, not a Ferrari that blew an engine on the first lap.
Take the hate for JPP and keep it stashed up for Klinsmann, because you know he'll come back somewhere:)
Do you think it's easy to shed blocks and generate a pass rush with the use of one hand?
I admit (and already have many times) to having been dead wrong about Janoris Jenkins...he was phenomenal and worth every penny. The Snacks signing I liked from day one. I'm not averse to spending big on big players.
But if we're paying big money I expect a big return. My lasting memory of the 2016 season for our defensive ends is Al Michaels and Cris Collinsworth in disbelief as Aaron Rodgers sat in the pocket for 5, 6, 7 seconds.
I have no choice but to embrace JPP and Vernon...they're cornerstone players. I rooted for them last year and will this year. I think an objective view is that they didn't deliver on the cost in year one.