Per a suggestion on the S7E4 thread, we can treat this as a "pre-game" forum. All forms of speculation are welcome... just try to base your posts on what we've seen in previous episodes, the S7E5 trailer or other official HBO material. I guess book references are OK for background info; the show is so far beyond A Dance with Dragons that "book spoiler" is an oxymoron.
What we know from the preview:
1) Daenerys offers the defeated Lannister army a choice: join her, or die.
2) Varys says Tyrion must find a way to make "her" listen. That's probably a reference to Dany, but - depending on the context - it could be Cersei.
3) Speaking of Cersei, her confidence appears unshaken, and Qyburn seems to be enjoying the challenge.
4) Jon and Drogon are properly introduced.
5) Bran notifies Jon, via raven, that the Others are on the march. Jon shares the news with Dany's Council. No indication whether that note from Bran contains a p.s. about the Tower of Joy and Jon's parentage.
6) The Dead are indeed coming. Based on the episode title, their current destination is not in doubt.
I haven't seen any canonical hints so far about Jaime's fate, the extent of Drogon's injuries, the status of food supplies in the South, the Iron Bank's reaction to recent developments, or Cersei's next move.
With that experience, I think readers - on average - are less bothered by leaks and spoilers.
Dany's older brother Rhaegar Targaryen. Only mentioned on the show by other characters telling stories of the past.
If Dany's aunt was Jon's father she'd have balls and be her uncle.
Seriously the theory though is that Dany's oldest brother, Prince Rhaegar is Jon's real father, and his mother is Lyanna Stark, Ned Stark's sister who died giving birth at the Tower of Joy.
There’s also Tyrion’s relationship with dragons, a Targaryen family trait. While growing up, Tyrion was obsessed with Dragons, always wishing to have one as a pet. Come the sixth season, we see Tyrion unchain one of Daenerys’ dragons locked away, the dragon being particularly calm around Tyrion. Could the magical beast know Tyrion has Targaryen blood?
Moreover, it appears from the preview that Dany intends to turn the remaining Lannister troops and incorporate them into her own forces.
These facts, combined with the presumable capture or death of Randyll Tarly, Jamie and Bronn, has to seriously cripple Cersei's warfighting capability. A backbreaker, maybe.
The question is, how would Tyrion's true parentage ever be revealed? Only way I can figure is through Bran -- or maybe Cersei herself knows, which would help explain why she has always hated Tyrion so much.
Dany's mother died in childbirth as well
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That both Tyrion and Jon Snow's mother both died in childbirth.
Dany's mother died in childbirth as well
Shit. That does it. I'm sold!
Never thought of that before, but it sounds like that might be the sort of echoing symbolism GRRM would write.
Link - ( New Window )
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In comment 13553744 RobCarpenter said:
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That both Tyrion and Jon Snow's mother both died in childbirth.
Dany's mother died in childbirth as well
Shit. That does it. I'm sold!
Then again, lots of Disney characters have dead mothers, and none of them turned out to be Targaryens.
Then again, lots of Disney characters have dead mothers, and none of them turned out to be Targaryens.
As far as you know!
Lots of talk from Jon Snow about how good of a heart Dany has this past episode. Davos randomly and casually mentioning it as well...
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with the dragon when he was younger, per Disney.
Not to mention Mulan and Mushu. Hmmmm...
I believe they all shared the same father.
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is related to the Lightbringer myth, of the sword being tempered by Azor Ahai by plunging it into the heart of his wife, who died to forge the perfect weapon to stop the Others.
moespree said:
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Lots of talk from Jon Snow about how good of a heart Dany has this past episode. Davos randomly and casually mentioning it as well...
Before we start setting Longclaw on fire and sacrificing queens with it, let's see who winds up owning the big old thing when Jorah shows up. Jon might still consider it Mormont family property. Maybe Jon will give up Longclaw and draw the original Lightbringer from dragonflame. Or maybe Lightbringer is just another goofy eastern myth. But if Melisandre hangs around long enough, she's sure to be right about something eventually.
It wouldn't surprise me if Jorah wound up with Longclaw at some point. I don't think Jon is meant to have that sword forever. They haven't really gone into much detail about Blackfyre or Dawn in the show, but those are out there somewhere, ready to be used by someone.
I think those pieces may have been made into a few other weapons, like a dagger for instance.
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That both Tyrion and Jon Snow's mother both died in childbirth.
Dany's mother died in childbirth as well
Tyrion's and Dany's mothers had other children though, so is there some significance maybe that Jon Snow's mother did not (as far as I know).
Maybe they forge a new Light Bringer? Still probably take a very talented blacksmith though. Somebody with powerful forearms. Hmmm
Would still require a heart to plunge it through. Hmmmm
I didn't think he was learning about shit as much as he was shoveling it.
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Learning about shit, reading stuff & following the directions.
I didn't think he was learning about shit as much as he was shoveling it.
Haha, true. But he did learn about a way to treat Jorah's acne and they did show him flipping through a book with now Arya's dagger pictured and discovering a cache of dragon glass.
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Learning about shit, reading stuff & following the directions.
I didn't think he was learning about shit as much as he was shoveling it.
I think it's all a setup, Sam is no longer shoveling shit, but he's now re-writing scrolls, you know one of those scrolls is going to contain text be relevant in some way to stopping the Night King's army or to the story/plot in some other way.
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In comment 13553912 Motley Two said:
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Learning about shit, reading stuff & following the directions.
I didn't think he was learning about shit as much as he was shoveling it.
I think it's all a setup, Sam is no longer shoveling shit, but he's now re-writing scrolls, you know one of those scrolls is going to contain text be relevant in some way to stopping the Night King's army or to the story/plot in some other way.
Yep. You rewrite the oldest scrolls first.
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In comment 13553932 RobCarpenter said:
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In comment 13553912 Motley Two said:
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Learning about shit, reading stuff & following the directions.
I didn't think he was learning about shit as much as he was shoveling it.
I think it's all a setup, Sam is no longer shoveling shit, but he's now re-writing scrolls, you know one of those scrolls is going to contain text be relevant in some way to stopping the Night King's army or to the story/plot in some other way.
Yep. You rewrite the oldest scrolls first.
I'm thinking yes he's punishing him by making him rewrite the scrolls but at the same time giving him ones to rewrite that would help his cause
Gilly helps Sam with his homework - ( New Window )
Minor quibble as there are likely plenty of ways to explain it away, but also a way to explain the Tyrion scene being a bit of a red herring. Maybe the dragons are just smart and knew he was helping them (removing their chains), and with Quentyn they realized he was going to chain them up again or they saw opportunity to escape, or just the threat of armed sellswords with him.
I don't think we see Tyrion as a dragon rider, even if he is a Targaryen. My $ is on Dany & Jon and....well not sure, there's no real obvious candidate. Which may have meaning in itself, or maybe it's Bran (not sure how), or Bronn (near impossible - that would be awesome tho)...or there's a different plan...
Oh, count me among those who think Bronn complaining about his pay may be part of a setup to push him back with Tyrion. Would love to see a reunion there. Jaime did promise a castle, but more likely Bronn doesn't want to be on the losing/non-dragon side - he's a smart sellsword, Lannister side isn't looking like it will pay off...
I hold out hope that he will find a recipe for Valerian steel somewhere in those old scrolls. Perhaps there is a way to merge steel with dragon glass using actual dragon fire. Three things that will be easy to find on Dragonstone.
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is relevant to the plot at this point.
I hold out hope that he will find a recipe for Valerian steel somewhere in those old scrolls. Perhaps there is a way to merge steel with dragon glass using actual dragon fire. Three things that will be easy to find on Dragonstone.
This^
Cersei - ( New Window )
Highly unlikely IMO, though it might make more sense than Tyrion being Targaryen.
but the dragon has three heads according to the house of the undying.
This would be really effing annoying considering all the hints in the book that point a different direction.
Pretty Funny - ( New Window )
No, I believe they (Jamie and Cersei) would both be Targaryens, is my assumption
and I said it makes more sense than Tyrion being Targaryen because the rumor was the Aerys took Joanna's virginity (maybe on her wedding day?).
when for Tyrion being a Targaryen either Aerys had to rape Joanna or just bang her with Tywin not knowing and I find that sort of far-fetched I guess.
I don't think this fan theory about Cersei is true, but who knows.