Per a suggestion on the S7E4 thread, we can treat this as a "pre-game" forum. All forms of speculation are welcome... just try to base your posts on what we've seen in previous episodes, the S7E5 trailer or other official HBO material. I guess book references are OK for background info; the show is so far beyond A Dance with Dragons that "book spoiler" is an oxymoron.
What we know from the preview:
1) Daenerys offers the defeated Lannister army a choice: join her, or die.
2) Varys says Tyrion must find a way to make "her" listen. That's probably a reference to Dany, but - depending on the context - it could be Cersei.
3) Speaking of Cersei, her confidence appears unshaken, and Qyburn seems to be enjoying the challenge.
4) Jon and Drogon are properly introduced.
5) Bran notifies Jon, via raven, that the Others are on the march. Jon shares the news with Dany's Council. No indication whether that note from Bran contains a p.s. about the Tower of Joy and Jon's parentage.
6) The Dead are indeed coming. Based on the episode title, their current destination is not in doubt.
I haven't seen any canonical hints so far about Jaime's fate, the extent of Drogon's injuries, the status of food supplies in the South, the Iron Bank's reaction to recent developments, or Cersei's next move.
Is Drogon crippled or injured to the point of being grounded for some period of time?
Apparently bran is controlling ravens now, why can't he control a dragon?
Figure we see the Hound and The Brotherhood again there too. Looking forward to that.
Not sure if that means fly/control Dragons, or just ravens (also important i suppose)
Right now, a small number of Nights Watch and Wildlings are currently all that stands at East Watch correct? I know Beric, The Hound and their crew are on their way there as well. I don't see how they all escape that coming army of dead though, should be another great episode.
-This season owes us another significant death - Tormund is a likely guess - but i dont think that's significant enough. Maybe Grey Worm on the unsullied march back?
-We saw nothing of Jorah Mormont in ep4- A reunion at dragonstone?
-I think we are due for a hound siting this episode. Haven't heard from him recently
Any chance the first shipment of dragonglass arrives in time? Maybe Benjen will turn up to help? He seems to have some useful skills. Dany won't deploy the dragons to the North for a while. Bran figures to be the ultimate weapon, but I doubt his insight will prove decisive until well into Season 8.
Well, one of the dragons did seem to recognize Tyrion as a Targaryen in Season 6, episode 2...
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It'll be interesting to see if Drogon recognizes Jon Snow's as a Targaryen. I'm thinking he will.
Well, one of the dragons did seem to recognize Tyrion as a Targaryen in Season 6, episode 2...
Or maybe it was both dragons?
He was captured at "Whispering Wood", He failed to protect Joffrey at the wedding, He failed to bring Marcella back alive. None of this was really his fault, but Cersie may think otherwise.
If he survived (I'm pretty sure he did) will Cersie turn her back on him? If he is captured, I'm sure she will refuse any negotiations with Tyrion/Daenarys to get him back. Maybe that when he realizes she hasn't loved him for some time now, if she ever really did.
last I saw the iron bank guy with cersei he was saying it's the first time we've been paid this size debt in a lump sum, and...."...once we actually get the gold" and I thought the gold was in the wagon with Jamie and Bronn.
last I saw the iron bank guy with cersei he was saying it's the first time we've been paid this size debt in a lump sum, and...."...once we actually get the gold" and I thought the gold was in the wagon with Jamie and Bronn.
Yeah. Right before the loot train attack, Randall Tarly tells Jaime that the last wagon of gold made it safely though Kings Landing's gates.
It's not for nothing that Qyburn mentioned the unpredictable course of the Long Goodbye. Myrcella succumbed before her ship left the port at Sunspear. Bronn lasted much longer before receiving the antidote, and Qyburn said Tyene's death could take weeks. She's a tough little byotch. I'm pretty sure we'll see her again, and there's only one candidate to rescue/ransom her.
I think this could easily be in play. He's a gun for hire and if Jamie comes up from the bottom of that lake, he's probably not going to be in any position to be signing paychecks. I think Bronn probably likes Tyrion better anyway. But if Danaerys recognizes Bronn as the dude that shot her favorite dragon...
It's not for nothing that Qyburn mentioned the unpredictable course of the Long Goodbye. Myrcella succumbed before her ship left the port at Sunspear. Bronn lasted much longer before receiving the antidote, and Qyburn said Tyene's death could take weeks. She's a tough little byotch. I'm pretty sure we'll see her again, and there's only one candidate to rescue/ransom her.
That would be great if it happened, but I doubt it will. All things Dorne are officially out of the show, is my guess. Although, I do assume Bronn now keeps a vile of that antictdote on him at all times, just in case.
Its pretty hilarious to me, since the hackers last week claimed HBO "will fall" due to their leaks. I guess releasing a action packed script, complete a dragon covering an army in fire, actually got more people to turn in. Go figure :/
Yes, I'm sure there will be something that happens. With it being Drogon especially. He is bonded to Dany and has even had moments of being unruly towards her let alone other people. If Drogon is fine with Jon or even takes a liking to him, I would imagine this is going to cause confusion for both him and Dany. Dany especially.
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It'll be interesting to see if Drogon recognizes Jon Snow's as a Targaryen. I'm thinking he will.
Well, one of the dragons did seem to recognize Tyrion as a Targaryen in Season 6, episode 2...
Wait, what? Is that something I should know about?
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In comment 13552880 Southern Man said:
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It'll be interesting to see if Drogon recognizes Jon Snow's as a Targaryen. I'm thinking he will.
Well, one of the dragons did seem to recognize Tyrion as a Targaryen in Season 6, episode 2...
Wait, what? Is that something I should know about?
Yes.
lonk - ( New Window )
Tyrion as a targaryan is pure fan speculation. There has never been anything in the books or show that implies he is anything but a Lannister. The scene with the dragons was iffy at best, they certainly didn't lick his face.
Right.
I didn't read the books, but as said more things in there that could hint towards it as well.
The scene with Tyrion & the dragons and Tywin's comments to Tyrion "You're not my son" (If taken literally) are about the only things from the show that could be hints.
Tyrion Targaryen - ( New Window )
While the theory is plausible, doubts about Tyrion's paternity might just be thrown in as a red herring and/or a further source of hostility between father and son.
While the theory is plausible, doubts about Tyrion's paternity might just be thrown in as a red herring and/or a further source of hostility between father and son.
Not just a hard on for her, Aery's allegedly took her virginity.
of course that couldn't have resulted in Tyrion, but it's more than a fan theory, it's alluded to as a possibility in the books.
Could be a red herring, could be something to it.
They Targarean sigil is a three headed dragon, three dragon riders (Aegon and his sisters) conquered Westeros in the first place and there are 3 living dragons now.
Basically, if Dany is a rider and Jon may become one because of his blood, then who is the other?
Many think it mist be Tyrion, because who else? I still think it'll be Bran who wargs into one.
I like Tyrion as the human, non magical, practical hero. I dont know how I will feel if he becomes a Targarean dragon rider.
Could work either way imo, for Bran or Tyrion
Link - ( New Window )
The fact that he did not get roasted by the dragons is a pretty big sign. Especially since a scene like that in the books resulted in a Martell-B-Q.
The fact that he did not get roasted by the dragons is a pretty big sign. Especially since a scene like that in the books resulted in a Martell-B-Q.
Yeah, that scene was no accident. As shown in this season with Arya "that's not you", along with all the various patterns from the cave, the show runners had the long game in mind here.
Are there book spoilers on this thread. Sorry for my ignorance if that is impossible, but just want to see if these threads are ones I should click on.
Are there book spoilers on this thread. Sorry for my ignorance if that is impossible, but just want to see if these threads are ones I should click on.
There is mention of some stuff that was in the books that never made it to the series but nothing too crazy. I assume you know the show passed the books, right?
To be honest the bigger concern is being spoiled from leaks more than anything from the books.
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So forgive me if it has been covered.
Are there book spoilers on this thread. Sorry for my ignorance if that is impossible, but just want to see if these threads are ones I should click on.
There is mention of some stuff that was in the books that never made it to the series but nothing too crazy. I assume you know the show passed the books, right?
I do. I was just making sure as I do not folow EVERYTHING that happens btwn the bookz and series.
On the other hand, certain things that have been glimpsed or teased in the books might feed educated guessing that resolute spoiler-avoiders wouldn't welcome. Past examples would include the Tower of Joy sequence from Season Six or Arya's recent encounter with her direwolf Nymeria. I don't think either of those events has literally "happened" in the books, but readers were eagerly anticipating them for years, based on Ned's feverish dream about the ToJ and Arya's wargish connection to Nym, among other clues. (Another reader favorite, the Frey Pies scene, did come from the books, but Arya's involvement was a clever TV twist.)
Theories about Jon's legitimacy and Tyrion's parentage might fall in this category of annoying book babble, along with speculation about the Night's King, Beric, Gendry, Cersei's "valonqar", the Broken Man, Lady Stoneheart (a few readers are still hoping) and many other subjects. I don't see much harm in this kind of chatter - as long as there's no reference to show leaks.
I'm not sure, however, if the show will address it. There's already one big Targaryen reveal coming obviously. Might not be the time or place for another one.
With that experience, I think readers - on average - are less bothered by leaks and spoilers.
Dany's older brother Rhaegar Targaryen. Only mentioned on the show by other characters telling stories of the past.
If Dany's aunt was Jon's father she'd have balls and be her uncle.
Seriously the theory though is that Dany's oldest brother, Prince Rhaegar is Jon's real father, and his mother is Lyanna Stark, Ned Stark's sister who died giving birth at the Tower of Joy.
There’s also Tyrion’s relationship with dragons, a Targaryen family trait. While growing up, Tyrion was obsessed with Dragons, always wishing to have one as a pet. Come the sixth season, we see Tyrion unchain one of Daenerys’ dragons locked away, the dragon being particularly calm around Tyrion. Could the magical beast know Tyrion has Targaryen blood?
Moreover, it appears from the preview that Dany intends to turn the remaining Lannister troops and incorporate them into her own forces.
These facts, combined with the presumable capture or death of Randyll Tarly, Jamie and Bronn, has to seriously cripple Cersei's warfighting capability. A backbreaker, maybe.
The question is, how would Tyrion's true parentage ever be revealed? Only way I can figure is through Bran -- or maybe Cersei herself knows, which would help explain why she has always hated Tyrion so much.
Dany's mother died in childbirth as well
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That both Tyrion and Jon Snow's mother both died in childbirth.
Dany's mother died in childbirth as well
Shit. That does it. I'm sold!
Never thought of that before, but it sounds like that might be the sort of echoing symbolism GRRM would write.
Link - ( New Window )
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In comment 13553744 RobCarpenter said:
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That both Tyrion and Jon Snow's mother both died in childbirth.
Dany's mother died in childbirth as well
Shit. That does it. I'm sold!
Then again, lots of Disney characters have dead mothers, and none of them turned out to be Targaryens.
Then again, lots of Disney characters have dead mothers, and none of them turned out to be Targaryens.
As far as you know!
Lots of talk from Jon Snow about how good of a heart Dany has this past episode. Davos randomly and casually mentioning it as well...
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with the dragon when he was younger, per Disney.
Not to mention Mulan and Mushu. Hmmmm...
I believe they all shared the same father.
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is related to the Lightbringer myth, of the sword being tempered by Azor Ahai by plunging it into the heart of his wife, who died to forge the perfect weapon to stop the Others.
moespree said:
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Lots of talk from Jon Snow about how good of a heart Dany has this past episode. Davos randomly and casually mentioning it as well...
Before we start setting Longclaw on fire and sacrificing queens with it, let's see who winds up owning the big old thing when Jorah shows up. Jon might still consider it Mormont family property. Maybe Jon will give up Longclaw and draw the original Lightbringer from dragonflame. Or maybe Lightbringer is just another goofy eastern myth. But if Melisandre hangs around long enough, she's sure to be right about something eventually.
It wouldn't surprise me if Jorah wound up with Longclaw at some point. I don't think Jon is meant to have that sword forever. They haven't really gone into much detail about Blackfyre or Dawn in the show, but those are out there somewhere, ready to be used by someone.
I think those pieces may have been made into a few other weapons, like a dagger for instance.
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That both Tyrion and Jon Snow's mother both died in childbirth.
Dany's mother died in childbirth as well
Tyrion's and Dany's mothers had other children though, so is there some significance maybe that Jon Snow's mother did not (as far as I know).
Maybe they forge a new Light Bringer? Still probably take a very talented blacksmith though. Somebody with powerful forearms. Hmmm
Would still require a heart to plunge it through. Hmmmm
I didn't think he was learning about shit as much as he was shoveling it.
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Learning about shit, reading stuff & following the directions.
I didn't think he was learning about shit as much as he was shoveling it.
Haha, true. But he did learn about a way to treat Jorah's acne and they did show him flipping through a book with now Arya's dagger pictured and discovering a cache of dragon glass.
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Learning about shit, reading stuff & following the directions.
I didn't think he was learning about shit as much as he was shoveling it.
I think it's all a setup, Sam is no longer shoveling shit, but he's now re-writing scrolls, you know one of those scrolls is going to contain text be relevant in some way to stopping the Night King's army or to the story/plot in some other way.
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In comment 13553912 Motley Two said:
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Learning about shit, reading stuff & following the directions.
I didn't think he was learning about shit as much as he was shoveling it.
I think it's all a setup, Sam is no longer shoveling shit, but he's now re-writing scrolls, you know one of those scrolls is going to contain text be relevant in some way to stopping the Night King's army or to the story/plot in some other way.
Yep. You rewrite the oldest scrolls first.
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In comment 13553932 RobCarpenter said:
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In comment 13553912 Motley Two said:
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Learning about shit, reading stuff & following the directions.
I didn't think he was learning about shit as much as he was shoveling it.
I think it's all a setup, Sam is no longer shoveling shit, but he's now re-writing scrolls, you know one of those scrolls is going to contain text be relevant in some way to stopping the Night King's army or to the story/plot in some other way.
Yep. You rewrite the oldest scrolls first.
I'm thinking yes he's punishing him by making him rewrite the scrolls but at the same time giving him ones to rewrite that would help his cause
Gilly helps Sam with his homework - ( New Window )
Minor quibble as there are likely plenty of ways to explain it away, but also a way to explain the Tyrion scene being a bit of a red herring. Maybe the dragons are just smart and knew he was helping them (removing their chains), and with Quentyn they realized he was going to chain them up again or they saw opportunity to escape, or just the threat of armed sellswords with him.
I don't think we see Tyrion as a dragon rider, even if he is a Targaryen. My $ is on Dany & Jon and....well not sure, there's no real obvious candidate. Which may have meaning in itself, or maybe it's Bran (not sure how), or Bronn (near impossible - that would be awesome tho)...or there's a different plan...
Oh, count me among those who think Bronn complaining about his pay may be part of a setup to push him back with Tyrion. Would love to see a reunion there. Jaime did promise a castle, but more likely Bronn doesn't want to be on the losing/non-dragon side - he's a smart sellsword, Lannister side isn't looking like it will pay off...
I hold out hope that he will find a recipe for Valerian steel somewhere in those old scrolls. Perhaps there is a way to merge steel with dragon glass using actual dragon fire. Three things that will be easy to find on Dragonstone.
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is relevant to the plot at this point.
I hold out hope that he will find a recipe for Valerian steel somewhere in those old scrolls. Perhaps there is a way to merge steel with dragon glass using actual dragon fire. Three things that will be easy to find on Dragonstone.
This^
Cersei - ( New Window )
Highly unlikely IMO, though it might make more sense than Tyrion being Targaryen.
but the dragon has three heads according to the house of the undying.
This would be really effing annoying considering all the hints in the book that point a different direction.
Pretty Funny - ( New Window )
No, I believe they (Jamie and Cersei) would both be Targaryens, is my assumption
and I said it makes more sense than Tyrion being Targaryen because the rumor was the Aerys took Joanna's virginity (maybe on her wedding day?).
when for Tyrion being a Targaryen either Aerys had to rape Joanna or just bang her with Tywin not knowing and I find that sort of far-fetched I guess.
I don't think this fan theory about Cersei is true, but who knows.