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NFT: Game of Thrones S7 E5: Eastwatch - Pre-Broadcast Discussion

Big Blue Blogger : 8/8/2017 12:33 pm
Per a suggestion on the S7E4 thread, we can treat this as a "pre-game" forum. All forms of speculation are welcome... just try to base your posts on what we've seen in previous episodes, the S7E5 trailer or other official HBO material. I guess book references are OK for background info; the show is so far beyond A Dance with Dragons that "book spoiler" is an oxymoron.

What we know from the preview:
1) Daenerys offers the defeated Lannister army a choice: join her, or die.
2) Varys says Tyrion must find a way to make "her" listen. That's probably a reference to Dany, but - depending on the context - it could be Cersei.
3) Speaking of Cersei, her confidence appears unshaken, and Qyburn seems to be enjoying the challenge.
4) Jon and Drogon are properly introduced.
5) Bran notifies Jon, via raven, that the Others are on the march. Jon shares the news with Dany's Council. No indication whether that note from Bran contains a p.s. about the Tower of Joy and Jon's parentage.
6) The Dead are indeed coming. Based on the episode title, their current destination is not in doubt.

I haven't seen any canonical hints so far about Jaime's fate, the extent of Drogon's injuries, the status of food supplies in the South, the Iron Bank's reaction to recent developments, or Cersei's next move.
Please no spoilers...  
Chris in Philly : 8/8/2017 12:40 pm : link
from the HBO hack!
Im excited  
spike : 8/8/2017 1:00 pm : link
To see the Walkers demolish some hapless Nights Watch guys
My wild ass guesses  
weeg in the bronx : 8/8/2017 1:07 pm : link
Its too early for the Lannisters to fold. Jaimmie and Bronn have to escape although a meeting between the two brothers would be good. Is Tarley the person to whom she offers terms of surrender or just the remnants of the Army? I hope Tarley is not dead, there was potential for another confrontation with Sam down the road. Dickon seemed to gain some cred too, does he wield the Tarley family sword in the battle against the dead?

Is Drogon crippled or injured to the point of being grounded for some period of time?

Apparently bran is controlling ravens now, why can't he control a dragon?
Could be a tough episode  
Kyle in NY : 8/8/2017 1:08 pm : link
for Tormund and the other wildlings. Last we heard they were heading for Eastwatch. They're in for some trouble.

Figure we see the Hound and The Brotherhood again there too. Looking forward to that.
Well Bran was told by the 3 eyed raven  
MetsAreBack : 8/8/2017 1:10 pm : link
that he will never walk again, but he will fly.

Not sure if that means fly/control Dragons, or just ravens (also important i suppose)
Well Drogon was healthy enough to fly Dany back  
beatrixkiddo : 8/8/2017 1:11 pm : link
to Dragonstone from the preview, so I doubt he is substantially injured.

Right now, a small number of Nights Watch and Wildlings are currently all that stands at East Watch correct? I know Beric, The Hound and their crew are on their way there as well. I don't see how they all escape that coming army of dead though, should be another great episode.
Definitely not a slow season  
spike : 8/8/2017 1:12 pm : link
Battles after battles are coming our way
my guesses - swear i have not seen the hack  
teso56 : 8/8/2017 1:16 pm : link
-We get one last meeting between Jamie and Tyrion
-This season owes us another significant death - Tormund is a likely guess - but i dont think that's significant enough. Maybe Grey Worm on the unsullied march back?
-We saw nothing of Jorah Mormont in ep4- A reunion at dragonstone?
-I think we are due for a hound siting this episode. Haven't heard from him recently
RE: Could be a tough episode  
Big Blue Blogger : 8/8/2017 1:18 pm : link
Kyle in NY said:
Quote:
for Tormund and the other wildlings. Last we heard they were heading for Eastwatch. They're in for some trouble.
Yup, they will bear the brunt of the attack again. The difference between this battle and Hardhome might be the stakes: Hardhome was a massacre on the Others' home turf. This time, they are hitting the Wall, which may or may not hold.

Any chance the first shipment of dragonglass arrives in time? Maybe Benjen will turn up to help? He seems to have some useful skills. Dany won't deploy the dragons to the North for a while. Bran figures to be the ultimate weapon, but I doubt his insight will prove decisive until well into Season 8.
Rickon?  
teso56 : 8/8/2017 1:20 pm : link
Its Dickon
On Point 4  
Southern Man : 8/8/2017 2:18 pm : link
It'll be interesting to see if Drogon recognizes Jon Snow's as a Targaryen. I'm thinking he will.
Jon Snow as...  
Southern Man : 8/8/2017 2:20 pm : link
nfm
RE: On Point 4  
RobCarpenter : 8/8/2017 2:25 pm : link
In comment 13552880 Southern Man said:
Quote:
It'll be interesting to see if Drogon recognizes Jon Snow's as a Targaryen. I'm thinking he will.


Well, one of the dragons did seem to recognize Tyrion as a Targaryen in Season 6, episode 2...
RE: RE: On Point 4  
RobCarpenter : 8/8/2017 2:26 pm : link
In comment 13552893 RobCarpenter said:
Quote:
In comment 13552880 Southern Man said:


Quote:


It'll be interesting to see if Drogon recognizes Jon Snow's as a Targaryen. I'm thinking he will.



Well, one of the dragons did seem to recognize Tyrion as a Targaryen in Season 6, episode 2...


Or maybe it was both dragons?
Is this the end of Jaime + Cersie as a power couple?  
Pete in 'Vliet : 8/8/2017 2:47 pm : link
Jaime definitly seems like a good soldier and very capable commander, but he's been batting 0 since the start of the series.

He was captured at "Whispering Wood", He failed to protect Joffrey at the wedding, He failed to bring Marcella back alive. None of this was really his fault, but Cersie may think otherwise.

If he survived (I'm pretty sure he did) will Cersie turn her back on him? If he is captured, I'm sure she will refuse any negotiations with Tyrion/Daenarys to get him back. Maybe that when he realizes she hasn't loved him for some time now, if she ever really did.
Jaime has to be captured...  
Chris in Philly : 8/8/2017 2:49 pm : link
it's the best way to get Tyrion/Jaime and Tyrion/Bronn scenes again. Tyrion could probably offer Bronn more than Jaime at this point...
Was the iron bank  
pjcas18 : 8/8/2017 2:50 pm : link
actually repaid?

last I saw the iron bank guy with cersei he was saying it's the first time we've been paid this size debt in a lump sum, and...."...once we actually get the gold" and I thought the gold was in the wagon with Jamie and Bronn.



I hope Bronn is alive  
Pete in 'Vliet : 8/8/2017 2:50 pm : link
and not executed by Danaerys. It would be great if he switched sides, so as not to be burned alive, and can work with Tyrion again.
RE: Was the iron bank  
Pete in 'Vliet : 8/8/2017 2:51 pm : link
In comment 13552931 pjcas18 said:
Quote:
actually repaid?

last I saw the iron bank guy with cersei he was saying it's the first time we've been paid this size debt in a lump sum, and...."...once we actually get the gold" and I thought the gold was in the wagon with Jamie and Bronn.





Yeah. Right before the loot train attack, Randall Tarly tells Jaime that the last wagon of gold made it safely though Kings Landing's gates.
Bronn gets a reunion no matter which way he goes from here.  
Big Blue Blogger : 8/8/2017 3:12 pm : link
Sure, reviving his buddy act with Tyrion would be fun. But, as a connoisseur of "la chatte mauvaise", he might prefer the not-dead-yet Tyene. His favorite Sand Snake could serve as a consolation prize for his lost gold, and another down-payment on the debt the Lannisters owe him.

It's not for nothing that Qyburn mentioned the unpredictable course of the Long Goodbye. Myrcella succumbed before her ship left the port at Sunspear. Bronn lasted much longer before receiving the antidote, and Qyburn said Tyene's death could take weeks. She's a tough little byotch. I'm pretty sure we'll see her again, and there's only one candidate to rescue/ransom her.
RE: I hope Bronn is alive  
Motley Two : 8/8/2017 3:15 pm : link
In comment 13552933 Pete in 'Vliet said:
Quote:
and not executed by Danaerys. It would be great if he switched sides, so as not to be burned alive, and can work with Tyrion again.


I think this could easily be in play. He's a gun for hire and if Jamie comes up from the bottom of that lake, he's probably not going to be in any position to be signing paychecks. I think Bronn probably likes Tyrion better anyway. But if Danaerys recognizes Bronn as the dude that shot her favorite dragon...
RE: Bronn gets a reunion no matter which way he goes from here.  
Pete in 'Vliet : 8/8/2017 3:20 pm : link
In comment 13552978 Big Blue Blogger said:
Quote:
Sure, reviving his buddy act with Tyrion would be fun. But, as a connoisseur of "la chatte mauvaise", he might prefer the not-dead-yet Tyene. His favorite Sand Snake could serve as a consolation prize for his lost gold, and another down-payment on the debt the Lannisters owe him.

It's not for nothing that Qyburn mentioned the unpredictable course of the Long Goodbye. Myrcella succumbed before her ship left the port at Sunspear. Bronn lasted much longer before receiving the antidote, and Qyburn said Tyene's death could take weeks. She's a tough little byotch. I'm pretty sure we'll see her again, and there's only one candidate to rescue/ransom her.



That would be great if it happened, but I doubt it will. All things Dorne are officially out of the show, is my guess. Although, I do assume Bronn now keeps a vile of that antictdote on him at all times, just in case.
MotleyTwo: It's not a lake. It's a river.  
Big Blue Blogger : 8/8/2017 3:27 pm : link
Blackwater Rush flows into Blackwater Bay at King's Landing. If Bronn and Jaime manage to float, they have a good chance of making it back to the Capitol.
Just saw news reports  
Pete in 'Vliet : 8/8/2017 3:31 pm : link
This past episode past the record for highest rated GOT episode yet, with about 10.2 million veiwers.

Its pretty hilarious to me, since the hackers last week claimed HBO "will fall" due to their leaks. I guess releasing a action packed script, complete a dragon covering an army in fire, actually got more people to turn in. Go figure :/
RE: On Point 4  
moespree : 8/8/2017 3:40 pm : link
In comment 13552880 Southern Man said:
Quote:
It'll be interesting to see if Drogon recognizes Jon Snow's as a Targaryen. I'm thinking he will.


Yes, I'm sure there will be something that happens. With it being Drogon especially. He is bonded to Dany and has even had moments of being unruly towards her let alone other people. If Drogon is fine with Jon or even takes a liking to him, I would imagine this is going to cause confusion for both him and Dany. Dany especially.
RE: RE: On Point 4  
santacruzom : 8/8/2017 3:49 pm : link
In comment 13552893 RobCarpenter said:
Quote:
In comment 13552880 Southern Man said:


Quote:


It'll be interesting to see if Drogon recognizes Jon Snow's as a Targaryen. I'm thinking he will.



Well, one of the dragons did seem to recognize Tyrion as a Targaryen in Season 6, episode 2...


Wait, what? Is that something I should know about?
RE: RE: RE: On Point 4  
Motley Two : 8/8/2017 3:54 pm : link
In comment 13553044 santacruzom said:
Quote:
In comment 13552893 RobCarpenter said:


Quote:


In comment 13552880 Southern Man said:


Quote:


It'll be interesting to see if Drogon recognizes Jon Snow's as a Targaryen. I'm thinking he will.



Well, one of the dragons did seem to recognize Tyrion as a Targaryen in Season 6, episode 2...



Wait, what? Is that something I should know about?


Yes.
lonk - ( New Window )
Oh right  
santacruzom : 8/8/2017 3:56 pm : link
I forgot about that! Still, I never speculated that Tyrion is actually Targaryen. Has that ever been hinted at elsewhere?
wait a minute  
santacruzom : 8/8/2017 3:58 pm : link
I had just watched the scene of Tyrion calming the dragons independently of your link. What you linked to reveals Jon as a Targaryen and doesn't mention or hint at Tyrion at all, right?
Tyrion being a Targaryen  
moespree : 8/8/2017 4:02 pm : link
Is more a book theory based on evidence not mentioned in the show. Other than the dragon scene I don't see much evidence for it in the show and do not think it will happen. I also personally don't believe it in the books either for that matter. It'd be a cheap plot point that is unneeded at this stage. Jon is already the secret Targaryen and in my opinion it also ruins the Tyrion/Tywin dynamic. The two are more similar than either care to admit.
RE: wait a minute  
weeg in the bronx : 8/8/2017 4:04 pm : link
In comment 13553061 santacruzom said:
Quote:
I had just watched the scene of Tyrion calming the dragons independently of your link. What you linked to reveals Jon as a Targaryen and doesn't mention or hint at Tyrion at all, right?


Tyrion as a targaryan is pure fan speculation. There has never been anything in the books or show that implies he is anything but a Lannister. The scene with the dragons was iffy at best, they certainly didn't lick his face.
RE: wait a minute  
Motley Two : 8/8/2017 4:07 pm : link
In comment 13553061 santacruzom said:
Quote:
I had just watched the scene of Tyrion calming the dragons independently of your link. What you linked to reveals Jon as a Targaryen and doesn't mention or hint at Tyrion at all, right?


Right.
I didn't read the books, but as said more things in there that could hint towards it as well.

The scene with Tyrion & the dragons and Tywin's comments to Tyrion "You're not my son" (If taken literally) are about the only things from the show that could be hints.
I don't buy it either...  
Giantfan in skinland : 8/8/2017 4:10 pm : link
but there is some smoke...

Tyrion Targaryen - ( New Window )
Even in the books, all Martin really offers...  
Big Blue Blogger : 8/8/2017 4:11 pm : link
...are indications that King Aerys had a chronic, creepy hard-on for Tywin's wife, Joanna, and that the Lannisters were in close proximity to the royal family at the time Tyrion was conceived. There are also a few possible hints in Tyrion's appearance: although his parents are first cousins, his hair and eye color are not typical of the Lannisters.

While the theory is plausible, doubts about Tyrion's paternity might just be thrown in as a red herring and/or a further source of hostility between father and son.
RE: Even in the books, all Martin really offers...  
pjcas18 : 8/8/2017 4:13 pm : link
In comment 13553079 Big Blue Blogger said:
Quote:
...are indications that King Aerys had a chronic, creepy hard-on for Tywin's wife, Joanna, and that the Lannisters were in close proximity to the royal family at the time Tyrion was conceived. There are also a few possible hints in Tyrion's appearance: although his parents are first cousins, his hair and eye color are not typical of the Lannisters.

While the theory is plausible, doubts about Tyrion's paternity might just be thrown in as a red herring and/or a further source of hostility between father and son.


Not just a hard on for her, Aery's allegedly took her virginity.

of course that couldn't have resulted in Tyrion, but it's more than a fan theory, it's alluded to as a possibility in the books.

Could be a red herring, could be something to it.

I think the Tyrion theory  
Pete in 'Vliet : 8/8/2017 6:08 pm : link
Is mainly based on the three headed dragon theory. If I'm not mistaken, that theory originated from one of the books where Dany dreams of Rhaegar, who tells her "the dragon has three heads"

They Targarean sigil is a three headed dragon, three dragon riders (Aegon and his sisters) conquered Westeros in the first place and there are 3 living dragons now.

Basically, if Dany is a rider and Jon may become one because of his blood, then who is the other?

Many think it mist be Tyrion, because who else? I still think it'll be Bran who wargs into one.

I like Tyrion as the human, non magical, practical hero. I dont know how I will feel if he becomes a Targarean dragon rider.

Whenever the 3 riders topic comes up  
Motley Two : 8/8/2017 6:51 pm : link
I always think of this scene.

Could work either way imo, for Bran or Tyrion
Link - ( New Window )
There's also the fact...  
Chris in Philly : 8/8/2017 9:51 pm : link
that Tywin is constantly saying shit like "since I can't prove you're not my son" and "you're no son of mine".

The fact that he did not get roasted by the dragons is a pretty big sign. Especially since a scene like that in the books resulted in a Martell-B-Q.
RE: There's also the fact...  
RobCarpenter : 8/8/2017 10:28 pm : link
In comment 13553442 Chris in Philly said:
Quote:
that Tywin is constantly saying shit like "since I can't prove you're not my son" and "you're no son of mine".

The fact that he did not get roasted by the dragons is a pretty big sign. Especially since a scene like that in the books resulted in a Martell-B-Q.


Yeah, that scene was no accident. As shown in this season with Arya "that's not you", along with all the various patterns from the cave, the show runners had the long game in mind here.
I havent read anything on this thread,  
chopperhatch : 8/8/2017 11:15 pm : link
So forgive me if it has been covered.

Are there book spoilers on this thread. Sorry for my ignorance if that is impossible, but just want to see if these threads are ones I should click on.
RE: I havent read anything on this thread,  
Chris in Philly : 8/8/2017 11:18 pm : link
In comment 13553496 chopperhatch said:
Quote:
So forgive me if it has been covered.

Are there book spoilers on this thread. Sorry for my ignorance if that is impossible, but just want to see if these threads are ones I should click on.


There is mention of some stuff that was in the books that never made it to the series but nothing too crazy. I assume you know the show passed the books, right?
There's not really any such thing as book spoilers anymore  
moespree : 8/8/2017 11:19 pm : link
The last book was released in 2011 and the plot in the books is now waaaaay behind what is happening in the show. There are things that happened in the books that did not in the show but they won't because it's clear they've been omitted from the adaptation.

To be honest the bigger concern is being spoiled from leaks more than anything from the books.
RE: RE: I havent read anything on this thread,  
chopperhatch : 8/9/2017 1:33 am : link
In comment 13553497 Chris in Philly said:
Quote:
In comment 13553496 chopperhatch said:


Quote:


So forgive me if it has been covered.

Are there book spoilers on this thread. Sorry for my ignorance if that is impossible, but just want to see if these threads are ones I should click on.



There is mention of some stuff that was in the books that never made it to the series but nothing too crazy. I assume you know the show passed the books, right?


I do. I was just making sure as I do not folow EVERYTHING that happens btwn the bookz and series.
On the question of whether 'book spoilers' are still possible...  
Big Blue Blogger : 8/9/2017 2:44 am : link
...it sort of depends on how you define a spoiler. Book readers can't spoil specific plot developments any more, because the show is well past the books, and has deviated pretty widely from them anyway.

On the other hand, certain things that have been glimpsed or teased in the books might feed educated guessing that resolute spoiler-avoiders wouldn't welcome. Past examples would include the Tower of Joy sequence from Season Six or Arya's recent encounter with her direwolf Nymeria. I don't think either of those events has literally "happened" in the books, but readers were eagerly anticipating them for years, based on Ned's feverish dream about the ToJ and Arya's wargish connection to Nym, among other clues. (Another reader favorite, the Frey Pies scene, did come from the books, but Arya's involvement was a clever TV twist.)

Theories about Jon's legitimacy and Tyrion's parentage might fall in this category of annoying book babble, along with speculation about the Night's King, Beric, Gendry, Cersei's "valonqar", the Broken Man, Lady Stoneheart (a few readers are still hoping) and many other subjects. I don't see much harm in this kind of chatter - as long as there's no reference to show leaks.
Put me in the camp that believes  
Kyle in NY : 8/9/2017 8:25 am : link
Tyrion is a Targaryen. Between the Joanna/Aerys history, Tywin's many digs at Tyrion as mentioned above, and the dragons in the dungeon scene, I think there's pretty strong evidence.

I'm not sure, however, if the show will address it. There's already one big Targaryen reveal coming obviously. Might not be the time or place for another one.
One more point about spoilers and leaks:  
Big Blue Blogger : 8/9/2017 9:16 am : link
I think there's a natural divide between readers and non-readers on this subject. For four+ seasons, readers were accustomed to basically knowing the key events that would unfold, and enjoying the show for the execution. ;o)

With that experience, I think readers - on average - are less bothered by leaks and spoilers.
Not a reader.  
Motley Two : 8/9/2017 9:53 am : link
but I don't care about knowing anything from the books at this point. Burn them. Burn them all.
A couple of questions  
afann : 8/9/2017 10:03 am : link
Who is Jon's father? I read in a thread it is Dany's aunt? With the attack with the dragon was Dany listening to Jon?...thanks
RE: A couple of questions  
Motley Two : 8/9/2017 10:16 am : link
In comment 13553674 afann said:
Quote:
Who is Jon's father? I read in a thread it is Dany's aunt? With the attack with the dragon was Dany listening to Jon?...thanks


Dany's older brother Rhaegar Targaryen. Only mentioned on the show by other characters telling stories of the past.

RE: A couple of questions  
pjcas18 : 8/9/2017 10:16 am : link
In comment 13553674 afann said:
Quote:
Who is Jon's father? I read in a thread it is Dany's aunt? With the attack with the dragon was Dany listening to Jon?...thanks


If Dany's aunt was Jon's father she'd have balls and be her uncle.

Seriously the theory though is that Dany's oldest brother, Prince Rhaegar is Jon's real father, and his mother is Lyanna Stark, Ned Stark's sister who died giving birth at the Tower of Joy.
She did take Jon's advice with that attack  
Kyle in NY : 8/9/2017 10:26 am : link
Otherwise she was planning on attacking King's Landing and killing thousands of innocent people
From the article linked above,  
Don in DC : 8/9/2017 10:27 am : link
this is why I believe Tyrion is indeed a Targaryen:

Quote:
Throughout Game of Thrones, we’ve seen the Lannister father tell Tyrion "You are no son of mine” multiple times, most notably before being shot with a crossbow. Some fans believe Tywin’s words to be literal, the Lannister believing Tyrion may actually be Aerys Targaryen’s son.

There’s also Tyrion’s relationship with dragons, a Targaryen family trait. While growing up, Tyrion was obsessed with Dragons, always wishing to have one as a pet. Come the sixth season, we see Tyrion unchain one of Daenerys’ dragons locked away, the dragon being particularly calm around Tyrion. Could the magical beast know Tyrion has Targaryen blood?
What do you figure the Lannister casualties were  
Don in DC : 8/9/2017 10:53 am : link
in the Battle of the Loot Train? I figure it has to number in the thousands -- a sizable portion of their overall forces.

Moreover, it appears from the preview that Dany intends to turn the remaining Lannister troops and incorporate them into her own forces.

These facts, combined with the presumable capture or death of Randyll Tarly, Jamie and Bronn, has to seriously cripple Cersei's warfighting capability. A backbreaker, maybe.
I also don't think it's a coincidence  
RobCarpenter : 8/9/2017 10:58 am : link
That both Tyrion and Jon Snow's mother both died in childbirth.
Good point.  
Don in DC : 8/9/2017 11:03 am : link
A little detail like that is the sort of thing that GRRM would insert intentionally as a clue.

The question is, how would Tyrion's true parentage ever be revealed? Only way I can figure is through Bran -- or maybe Cersei herself knows, which would help explain why she has always hated Tyrion so much.
RE: I also don't think it's a coincidence  
PEEJ : 8/9/2017 11:11 am : link
In comment 13553744 RobCarpenter said:
Quote:
That both Tyrion and Jon Snow's mother both died in childbirth.


Dany's mother died in childbirth as well
Thanks  
afann : 8/9/2017 11:22 am : link
Everyone
RE: RE: I also don't think it's a coincidence  
Don in DC : 8/9/2017 11:24 am : link
In comment 13553755 PEEJ said:
Quote:
In comment 13553744 RobCarpenter said:


Quote:


That both Tyrion and Jon Snow's mother both died in childbirth.



Dany's mother died in childbirth as well


Shit. That does it. I'm sold!
Huh. I wonder if that  
Don in DC : 8/9/2017 11:28 am : link
is related to the Lightbringer myth, of the sword being tempered by Azor Ahai by plunging it into the heart of his wife, who died to forge the perfect weapon to stop the Others.

Never thought of that before, but it sounds like that might be the sort of echoing symbolism GRRM would write.


Link - ( New Window )
RE: RE: RE: I also don't think it's a coincidence  
Bill L : 8/9/2017 11:47 am : link
In comment 13553769 Don in DC said:
Quote:
In comment 13553755 PEEJ said:


Quote:


In comment 13553744 RobCarpenter said:


Quote:


That both Tyrion and Jon Snow's mother both died in childbirth.



Dany's mother died in childbirth as well



Shit. That does it. I'm sold!
Go back to our own medieval times and you'd probably find tons of people who could be Targaryan princes.
Lyanna, Joanna, Rhaella...  
Big Blue Blogger : 8/9/2017 12:05 pm : link
...There's clearly a pattern: double consonants followed by the letter "a". Coincidence? I don't think so!

Then again, lots of Disney characters have dead mothers, and none of them turned out to be Targaryens.
RE: Lyanna, Joanna, Rhaella...  
Chris in Philly : 8/9/2017 12:19 pm : link
In comment 13553813 Big Blue Blogger said:
Quote:
...There's clearly a pattern: double consonants followed by the letter "a". Coincidence? I don't think so!

Then again, lots of Disney characters have dead mothers, and none of them turned out to be Targaryens.


As far as you know!
Here is Tyrion  
pjcas18 : 8/9/2017 12:25 pm : link
with the dragon when he was younger, per Disney.


RE: Huh. I wonder if that  
moespree : 8/9/2017 12:29 pm : link
In comment 13553773 Don in DC said:
Quote:
is related to the Lightbringer myth, of the sword being tempered by Azor Ahai by plunging it into the heart of his wife, who died to forge the perfect weapon to stop the Others.


Lots of talk from Jon Snow about how good of a heart Dany has this past episode. Davos randomly and casually mentioning it as well...
RE: Here is Tyrion  
Big Blue Blogger : 8/9/2017 12:34 pm : link
pjcas18 said:
Quote:
with the dragon when he was younger, per Disney.
Not to mention Mulan and Mushu. Hmmmm...
RE: RE: Huh. I wonder if that  
Big Blue Blogger : 8/9/2017 12:53 pm : link
Don in DC said:
Quote:
is related to the Lightbringer myth, of the sword being tempered by Azor Ahai by plunging it into the heart of his wife, who died to forge the perfect weapon to stop the Others.
moespree said:
Quote:
Lots of talk from Jon Snow about how good of a heart Dany has this past episode. Davos randomly and casually mentioning it as well...
Before we start setting Longclaw on fire and sacrificing queens with it, let's see who winds up owning the big old thing when Jorah shows up. Jon might still consider it Mormont family property. Maybe Jon will give up Longclaw and draw the original Lightbringer from dragonflame. Or maybe Lightbringer is just another goofy eastern myth. But if Melisandre hangs around long enough, she's sure to be right about something eventually.
RE: RE: Here is Tyrion  
pjcas18 : 8/9/2017 12:58 pm : link
In comment 13553845 Big Blue Blogger said:
Quote:
pjcas18 said:

Quote:


with the dragon when he was younger, per Disney.

Not to mention Mulan and Mushu. Hmmmm...


I believe they all shared the same father.
RE: RE: RE: Huh. I wonder if that  
moespree : 8/9/2017 1:07 pm : link
In comment 13553865 Big Blue Blogger said:
Quote:
Don in DC said:

Quote:


is related to the Lightbringer myth, of the sword being tempered by Azor Ahai by plunging it into the heart of his wife, who died to forge the perfect weapon to stop the Others.

moespree said:

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Lots of talk from Jon Snow about how good of a heart Dany has this past episode. Davos randomly and casually mentioning it as well...

Before we start setting Longclaw on fire and sacrificing queens with it, let's see who winds up owning the big old thing when Jorah shows up. Jon might still consider it Mormont family property. Maybe Jon will give up Longclaw and draw the original Lightbringer from dragonflame. Or maybe Lightbringer is just another goofy eastern myth. But if Melisandre hangs around long enough, she's sure to be right about something eventually.


It wouldn't surprise me if Jorah wound up with Longclaw at some point. I don't think Jon is meant to have that sword forever. They haven't really gone into much detail about Blackfyre or Dawn in the show, but those are out there somewhere, ready to be used by someone.
Didn't Azor Ahai  
Motley Two : 8/9/2017 1:15 pm : link
first have an attempt at plunging the sword into a lion, but it shattered?

I think those pieces may have been made into a few other weapons, like a dagger for instance.
Long Claw, Catspaw...  
Motley Two : 8/9/2017 1:17 pm : link
Hmmm
RE: RE: I also don't think it's a coincidence  
pjcas18 : 8/9/2017 1:20 pm : link
In comment 13553755 PEEJ said:
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In comment 13553744 RobCarpenter said:


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That both Tyrion and Jon Snow's mother both died in childbirth.



Dany's mother died in childbirth as well


Tyrion's and Dany's mothers had other children though, so is there some significance maybe that Jon Snow's mother did not (as far as I know).

Sam's doing study work at the Citadel  
Motley Two : 8/9/2017 1:32 pm : link
Learning about shit, reading stuff & following the directions.
Maybe they forge a new Light Bringer? Still probably take a very talented blacksmith though. Somebody with powerful forearms. Hmmm

Would still require a heart to plunge it through. Hmmmm
RE: Sam's doing study work at the Citadel  
RobCarpenter : 8/9/2017 1:46 pm : link
In comment 13553912 Motley Two said:
Quote:
Learning about shit, reading stuff & following the directions.


I didn't think he was learning about shit as much as he was shoveling it.
RE: RE: Sam's doing study work at the Citadel  
Motley Two : 8/9/2017 1:53 pm : link
In comment 13553932 RobCarpenter said:
Quote:
In comment 13553912 Motley Two said:


Quote:


Learning about shit, reading stuff & following the directions.




I didn't think he was learning about shit as much as he was shoveling it.


Haha, true. But he did learn about a way to treat Jorah's acne and they did show him flipping through a book with now Arya's dagger pictured and discovering a cache of dragon glass.
I wasn't predicting that  
Don in DC : 8/9/2017 2:01 pm : link
Jon would shove a sword through Dany's heart (though I wouldn't rule it out either). Instead, I was wondering if their mothers didn't die to "forge" them the way AA's wife died to forge Lightbringer.
RE: RE: Sam's doing study work at the Citadel  
pjcas18 : 8/9/2017 2:03 pm : link
In comment 13553932 RobCarpenter said:
Quote:
In comment 13553912 Motley Two said:


Quote:


Learning about shit, reading stuff & following the directions.




I didn't think he was learning about shit as much as he was shoveling it.


I think it's all a setup, Sam is no longer shoveling shit, but he's now re-writing scrolls, you know one of those scrolls is going to contain text be relevant in some way to stopping the Night King's army or to the story/plot in some other way.
RE: RE: RE: Sam's doing study work at the Citadel  
Motley Two : 8/9/2017 2:10 pm : link
In comment 13553973 pjcas18 said:
Quote:
In comment 13553932 RobCarpenter said:


Quote:


In comment 13553912 Motley Two said:


Quote:


Learning about shit, reading stuff & following the directions.




I didn't think he was learning about shit as much as he was shoveling it.



I think it's all a setup, Sam is no longer shoveling shit, but he's now re-writing scrolls, you know one of those scrolls is going to contain text be relevant in some way to stopping the Night King's army or to the story/plot in some other way.


Yep. You rewrite the oldest scrolls first.
RE: RE: RE: RE: Sam's doing study work at the Citadel  
eli4life : 8/9/2017 2:47 pm : link
In comment 13553982 Motley Two said:
Quote:
In comment 13553973 pjcas18 said:


Quote:


In comment 13553932 RobCarpenter said:


Quote:


In comment 13553912 Motley Two said:


Quote:


Learning about shit, reading stuff & following the directions.




I didn't think he was learning about shit as much as he was shoveling it.



I think it's all a setup, Sam is no longer shoveling shit, but he's now re-writing scrolls, you know one of those scrolls is going to contain text be relevant in some way to stopping the Night King's army or to the story/plot in some other way.



Yep. You rewrite the oldest scrolls first.


I'm thinking yes he's punishing him by making him rewrite the scrolls but at the same time giving him ones to rewrite that would help his cause
Yeah, Sam learning something important is the only reason his story  
Heisenberg : 8/9/2017 2:59 pm : link
is relevant to the plot at this point.
The weekly drop of promotional stills is out.  
Big Blue Blogger : 8/9/2017 3:15 pm : link
And yes, Hannah Murray and John Bradley appear to be hitting the books for more improbable exposition.
Gilly helps Sam with his homework - ( New Window )
One thing about the Tyrion as Targaryen (NON-SHOW BOOK SPOILERS)  
Cenotaph : 8/9/2017 3:16 pm : link
That bugs me a little....they do make a big deal about how the dragons have a natural affinity for Targaryens - obviously Dany, and the thought that Jon will show it too, Brown Ben Plumm from the books (who the dragons like even though he betrays Dany), etc. There's several examples, and the fact that the dragons seem ok with Tyrion seems like a strong point in his favor - especially compared to someone like Quentyn, who ends up toasty. However, didn't Quent also have a drop of dragon blood? The Martells and Targaryens intermarried several times - did none of these marriages lead to Doran's lineage? I suppose it's possible that there were family connections without Quent ending up with Dragon blodd (and likely the explanation), but it bugged me because in the books, I thought Quentyn mentions having a tiny bit of Targaryen blood in his past. In fact, after 300 years (despite their propensity to keep it in the family), there's likely many Westerosi houses with a drop of Dragon blood, like Brown Ben (from an offshoot branch of a lesser house, now mostly extinct/exiled I believe.

Minor quibble as there are likely plenty of ways to explain it away, but also a way to explain the Tyrion scene being a bit of a red herring. Maybe the dragons are just smart and knew he was helping them (removing their chains), and with Quentyn they realized he was going to chain them up again or they saw opportunity to escape, or just the threat of armed sellswords with him.

I don't think we see Tyrion as a dragon rider, even if he is a Targaryen. My $ is on Dany & Jon and....well not sure, there's no real obvious candidate. Which may have meaning in itself, or maybe it's Bran (not sure how), or Bronn (near impossible - that would be awesome tho)...or there's a different plan...

Oh, count me among those who think Bronn complaining about his pay may be part of a setup to push him back with Tyrion. Would love to see a reunion there. Jaime did promise a castle, but more likely Bronn doesn't want to be on the losing/non-dragon side - he's a smart sellsword, Lannister side isn't looking like it will pay off...
I think  
Amtoft : 8/9/2017 3:47 pm : link
a big thing that makes people think Tyrion is possibly a Targ is that fact that he grow up with such vivid dreams of riding a dragon. Targaryen's are known to have visions. You then throw in the fact that Tywin mentioned that he was no son of his and that he only still let him be around because he couldn't prove it. That fact that all 3 of Tyrion, Jon, Dany's mothers died during their child birth, that the dragon's didn't eat or burn Tyrion, etc etc etc... there is a logical connection to it, but we are running out of time. Not all theories, prophecies, visions,etc point a certain direction or come to pass.
RE: Yeah, Sam learning something important is the only reason his story  
Pete in 'Vliet : 8/9/2017 4:37 pm : link
In comment 13554080 Heisenberg said:
Quote:
is relevant to the plot at this point.


I hold out hope that he will find a recipe for Valerian steel somewhere in those old scrolls. Perhaps there is a way to merge steel with dragon glass using actual dragon fire. Three things that will be easy to find on Dragonstone.
Also, in the books,  
Don in DC : 8/9/2017 4:38 pm : link
Tyrion is described as having platinum blond hair. Much more Targaryen-like than the golden blond typical of Lannisters.
RE: RE: Yeah, Sam learning something important is the only reason his story  
Motley Two : 8/9/2017 4:59 pm : link
In comment 13554194 Pete in 'Vliet said:
Quote:
In comment 13554080 Heisenberg said:


Quote:


is relevant to the plot at this point.



I hold out hope that he will find a recipe for Valerian steel somewhere in those old scrolls. Perhaps there is a way to merge steel with dragon glass using actual dragon fire. Three things that will be easy to find on Dragonstone.


This^
Cersei fan theory  
jestersdead : 8/10/2017 2:02 pm : link
Just read a fan theory about Cersei being a Targaryen and it's based on the Hodor actor's accidental tweet
Cersei - ( New Window )
RE: Cersei fan theory  
pjcas18 : 8/10/2017 2:06 pm : link
In comment 13555151 jestersdead said:
Quote:
Just read a fan theory about Cersei being a Targaryen and it's based on the Hodor actor's accidental tweet Cersei - ( New Window )


Highly unlikely IMO, though it might make more sense than Tyrion being Targaryen.
I kinda hope none of these other Targaryen  
bceagle05 : 8/10/2017 2:12 pm : link
rumors are true - Tyrion, Cersei, Jamie, whoever. It's fun to speculate and read between the lines, but Jon as a Targaryen is the big revelation of the whole story - I don't think others are needed.
RE: I kinda hope none of these other Targaryen  
pjcas18 : 8/10/2017 2:16 pm : link
In comment 13555161 bceagle05 said:
Quote:
rumors are true - Tyrion, Cersei, Jamie, whoever. It's fun to speculate and read between the lines, but Jon as a Targaryen is the big revelation of the whole story - I don't think others are needed.


but the dragon has three heads according to the house of the undying.

RE: Cersei fan theory  
Heisenberg : 8/10/2017 2:41 pm : link
In comment 13555151 jestersdead said:
Quote:
Just read a fan theory about Cersei being a Targaryen and it's based on the Hodor actor's accidental tweet Cersei - ( New Window )


This would be really effing annoying considering all the hints in the book that point a different direction.
Any of you catch the Tampa Bay Bucs  
Motley Two : 8/10/2017 2:46 pm : link
talk G.O.T. at the end of Hard Knocks?
Pretty Funny - ( New Window )
On the Cersei thing, so Cersei and Jamie would have different fathers  
slickwilly : 8/10/2017 3:12 pm : link
even though they are twins? Tywin impregnates Joanna with Jamie and then the Mad King rapes her and impregnates her with Cersei? I know it's physically possible, but that would be kind of stupid.
RE: On the Cersei thing, so Cersei and Jamie would have different fathers  
pjcas18 : 8/10/2017 3:19 pm : link
In comment 13555228 slickwilly said:
Quote:
even though they are twins? Tywin impregnates Joanna with Jamie and then the Mad King rapes her and impregnates her with Cersei? I know it's physically possible, but that would be kind of stupid.


No, I believe they (Jamie and Cersei) would both be Targaryens, is my assumption

and I said it makes more sense than Tyrion being Targaryen because the rumor was the Aerys took Joanna's virginity (maybe on her wedding day?).

when for Tyrion being a Targaryen either Aerys had to rape Joanna or just bang her with Tywin not knowing and I find that sort of far-fetched I guess.

I don't think this fan theory about Cersei is true, but who knows.
On one hand, we're weighing the words of the actor who played Hodor  
Heisenberg : 8/10/2017 3:21 pm : link
against all the breadcrumbs in the books.
Although most of the released material shows the South...  
Big Blue Blogger : 8/13/2017 12:17 pm : link
...tonight is probably the episode where the show starts pivoting to the North. The title says that much.
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