I know I'm not a baseball fan, but figured some would find this of interest
Jeff Passan& #8207;Verified account @JeffPassan
Source: Indians finalizing a deal to acquire Jay Bruce. Cleveland taking on all of Bruce's salary. @jcrasnick first on it being close.
46 cents vs 45 cents...
Afraid none of the acquisitions were 'targets'.
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doesn't mean Sandy liked them more. The only thing confirmed is that the Yankees offered to eat some of the 3 million. The rest is all assumption, leading, or guesswork likely based on the Wilpons history.
Who asks for a 30th round draft choice? If other teams had asked about the two prospects it likely means they were both better than a 30th rd pick. Of course if Sandy wanted a pitcher and the Yanks offered fielders then I understand.
BTW, I didn't want Bruce anyway.
The fact that he was a 30th round draft choice is meaningless. He was a positon player in college. It's all about his tools, skillset, and what he's doing this year. Seems like he's raw but he's been getting some results.
It's the same with the other trades. Everyone rushed to look at pre-season rankings and ignores that for 3 months they have evolved as pitchers and are outperforming what they were doing coming into the season. It's typical fan stuff. It's fine. Nobody will know for a couple years.
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all prospects are equal. Tell me the dollar amount they placed on Ryder VS the Yankee prospects and Ill tell you how I feel.
46 cents vs 45 cents...
Afraid none of the acquisitions were 'targets'.
Ok. So roughly equal. Exactly what I thought. As for "targets" I dont mean exact players. Im talking about a "type". The fact that you nailed we were looking for upside relievers weeks ago already confirms that.
Marc CarigVerified account @MarcCarig 4m4 minutes ago
NYY: 2 prospects Mets asked for and $1m in salary relief.
CLE: 30th rounder Ryder Ryan and about $5m in salary relief.
Mets chose latter.
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Marc CarigVerified account @MarcCarig 4m4 minutes ago
NYY: 2 prospects Mets asked for and $1m in salary relief.
CLE: 30th rounder Ryder Ryan and about $5m in salary relief.
Mets chose latter.
Read what Shecky just posted, if the Mets viewed Ryder at .46 cents and the Yankees prospects at .45 cents or even vice versa... it's pretty clear which was the better deal. Not one beat is saying anything other than the Yankees asked for us to eat some salary.
Small victories right?
FWIW, I personally did not want the Yanks to give up ANY decent prospects for Bruce. I dont think there are many fans who wanted Bruce in exchange for prospects either. So lets not get all hyoed up thinking that the Mets out maneuvered the Yankees. They didnt and Yankee fans are pretty glad the Mets turned down that offer. The last thing the Yankees need is another power hitter who hits under .260
Based on Wrights insurance and removal of about $11mm from trades.
Absolutely. I mean.. look at the Leddy and Boychuk deals.
Oh..wait.
He's been struggling recently so they may wait. 8 for his last 38-.211 with 13 k's (last 10 games).
thats my opinion on it. If this 10 or so million at the deadline was saved to eventually re-invest maybe next year. Then the deal is fine by me. Most of these prospects don't make it but if the 5 million gives them more flexibility to add quality pieces next year or go after a big time free agent (cain, martinez, moustakas). Maybe it would make more sense...
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they'll put more payroll in midseason when we're contending, but save money when the season is a stinker. So be it, it's a business. Im pretty doubtful that the Yankees were offering a major prospect for Bruce.
thats my opinion on it. If this 10 or so million at the deadline was saved to eventually re-invest maybe next year. Then the deal is fine by me. Most of these prospects don't make it but if the 5 million gives them more flexibility to add quality pieces next year or go after a big time free agent (cain, martinez, moustakas). Maybe it would make more sense...
The money "saved" has zero impact on next years payroll. That's 2017 savings only. Trading Bruce has absolutely no impact on 2018 FA's.
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they'll put more payroll in midseason when we're contending, but save money when the season is a stinker. So be it, it's a business. Im pretty doubtful that the Yankees were offering a major prospect for Bruce.
thats my opinion on it. If this 10 or so million at the deadline was saved to eventually re-invest maybe next year. Then the deal is fine by me. Most of these prospects don't make it but if the 5 million gives them more flexibility to add quality pieces next year or go after a big time free agent (cain, martinez, moustakas). Maybe it would make more sense...
The Mets (and most teams) treat each year as a different fiscal period. For instance the money "saved" on Wright this year won't be "added" to next years payroll, it's simply savings on this year. Trading Duda saves them 2017 money, Bruce etc. They don't suddenly "have" more money for 2018. That's only the case if they trade 2018 commitments.
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In comment 13554594 Deej said:
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they'll put more payroll in midseason when we're contending, but save money when the season is a stinker. So be it, it's a business. Im pretty doubtful that the Yankees were offering a major prospect for Bruce.
thats my opinion on it. If this 10 or so million at the deadline was saved to eventually re-invest maybe next year. Then the deal is fine by me. Most of these prospects don't make it but if the 5 million gives them more flexibility to add quality pieces next year or go after a big time free agent (cain, martinez, moustakas). Maybe it would make more sense...
The money "saved" has zero impact on next years payroll. That's 2017 savings only. Trading Bruce has absolutely no impact on 2018 FA's.
you say it like its a fact. If I made 10 more million dollars this year I would be more comfortable to spend more next year. Its basic financials. If the Wilpons took a loss last year they might not be willing to spend as much.
I get it the return was amazing and just because the yankees were willing to give up two unnamed players (we have no idea if they were in the yankees top 30 prospects either).
But to say it like its fact is simply off. Financial savings can only help in the future whether the spend it or not. Unless your assuming the mets are going to us the 10 million they saved on other ventures. Which I guess is possible but YOU or I don't know that.
the spent the last to deadlines (cespedes and bruce). When they were contending. I see it no differently. They subtracted now that they aren't contending...
PJ, yeah he's getting up there in innings for the season. And obvious no reason to push it in a lost season
Or Cabrera
The Mets are a business
Prospects are an asset
Salary is a liability
Not paying a salary is an asset
Draft picks are assets
Each of the above have a value. A dollar value assigned to it.
Bruce's salary is say $4mm. Any production from him is valueless since it blocks a Nimmo, and any extra wins are worthless. Or negative ;)
The comp pick they get for Bruce would be worth say $4-5mm. So not getting the comp pick is equal to his salary. Literally almost a wash.
Point being. If team Y offers an additional prospect who you value as worth $1mm. But that team asks you to pick up $2mm of salary. Do the math.
Hope that helps
If this is so simple than how did you fuck up your valuation of a 2nd/3rd round comp pick? So the $4MM on 2 months Bruce's salary in a lost year is "a wash" with gaining a potential superstar (2nd round pick) that you only have to pay ~$750K per year x 5 years (total $4MM, spread over 5 years) ??
Glad you're not managing my money, friend.
If the thought process had been they were certain Bruce would accept the QO, and they preferred to spend the money elsewhere and move Conforto to RF next year - fine, i can accept that logic ... but even then, why wasnt Bruce traded a month ago when you'd get more than this in return?
And PS. I'd trade or try to trade Cespedes before letting Bruce walk, but that's me. Bruce is a better all around baseball player, the other guy is a body-builder.
Or Cabrera
Almost certainly out of their "comfort zone" price wise but who knows?
Next cable deal, combined with (IMO) unsustainable ticket prices and who knows what changes will be made to the corporate tax code (continued ability to write off entertainment expenses??) -- should hopefully wack baseball revenues and growth outlook substantially.
To me, the savings in salary does not look like the motivating factor for taking the deal from the Indians instead of the Yankee deal. However, I understand the other point of view.
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In comment 13554618 mphbullet36 said:
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In comment 13554594 Deej said:
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they'll put more payroll in midseason when we're contending, but save money when the season is a stinker. So be it, it's a business. Im pretty doubtful that the Yankees were offering a major prospect for Bruce.
thats my opinion on it. If this 10 or so million at the deadline was saved to eventually re-invest maybe next year. Then the deal is fine by me. Most of these prospects don't make it but if the 5 million gives them more flexibility to add quality pieces next year or go after a big time free agent (cain, martinez, moustakas). Maybe it would make more sense...
The money "saved" has zero impact on next years payroll. That's 2017 savings only. Trading Bruce has absolutely no impact on 2018 FA's.
you say it like its a fact. If I made 10 more million dollars this year I would be more comfortable to spend more next year. Its basic financials. If the Wilpons took a loss last year they might not be willing to spend as much.
I get it the return was amazing and just because the yankees were willing to give up two unnamed players (we have no idea if they were in the yankees top 30 prospects either).
But to say it like its fact is simply off. Financial savings can only help in the future whether the spend it or not. Unless your assuming the mets are going to us the 10 million they saved on other ventures. Which I guess is possible but YOU or I don't know that.
This absolutely is a "fact". You can believe whatever you choose to but don't you think we would see teams "praised" for dumping expiring contracts because they would be "gaining" money to spend next year? In fact we would see teams attaching prospects to expiring contracts if your premise were accurate. Guy is owed 12 million for half a season, a team would attach a prospect to that guy if it meant 12 million to spend the following season. You can believe what you want but I know for an absolute fact the Mets (and other teams) treat payroll on an annual basis. Bruce/Duda etc will have 0.00% impact on 2018 payroll. None. I'm not looking to debate the return on Bruce/Duda. I have no clue what was offered. I do "know" the savings will not impact the 2018 payroll. Not being snarky but speaking from actual insight/information.
Hate to say it but 2018 is not a force it year. I would minimally add strategically to the 2017 team.
trades are different obviously.
I'd add to the bullpen (no idea if any of the deadline acquisitions are close, but I suspect FA is the way to address this), and look for a legit CF, and possibly a 3B, but none need to be superstars and I wouldn't outbid anyone. And I think the Mets can fill 3B with the current roster.
the 2018 off-season in preparation for 2019 is a different story.
That's when I think the Mets should spend, depending on what happens in the 2018 season and who hits free agency.
obviously Harper and Machado the big names, but there are more interesting names that off-season too.
and while I don't like the fact the Mets dumped contracts for 5 relievers this off-season the thing that pisses me off the most is Merandy Gonzalez, who may amount to be nothing, but that kind of shit puzzles me.
The Mets are the ones disagreeing with you. That's not how they operate. You don't think they would be offering to take back "some" money or add in "meh" prospects to have the "savings" on Walker, Cabrera, etc? It would be a no brainer. Let's say Walker and Cabrera are owed a combined 10 million. The Mets would surely "kick in" 3-4 million to "save" 10 (they would come out ahead) for 2018 spending. Hey don't ask me, Shecky will the Bruce:Duda "savings" be added money for the 2018?
PS if the Mets dumping money this year impacted the 2018 payroll they would be lauded for it. Other teams would proactively dump salaries of expiring contracts in order to have additional 2018 payroll
Back to another decade of sucking again
First day, you catch a cold. Second day, it rains. Third day - your leg gets amputated. Someone offers you a $100 to take that $1,000 boat rental off your hands. You happily take it, it's an extra $100 and that boat ride is useless to you now.
Do you look at that $100 as $100 less you spent on a wasted vacation? Or do you keep it in your top drawer and saw "cool, I got an extra hundred bucks to spend on next years vacation"?
What in the Mets history suggests they will offer any reliever a multi year, high dollar contract?
Secondly, the purpose of stockpiling arms is the intention of building a "deep and cheap" pen for years to come.
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Use that money saved to resign Addison please
What in the Mets history suggests they will offer any reliever a multi year, high dollar contract?
Secondly, the purpose of stockpiling arms is the intention of building a "deep and cheap" pen for years to come.
One of the really strange "issues" with this FO has been bullpen construction given most of the best pens were built with hard throwing bat missing kids aka inexpensive. They finally seem to be realizing this.im not big on Ramos and I hope they add at least 1-2 guys with some level of success but the pen issues could be "fixed" soon enough
That Sandy hasn't been good at valuation of relief pitchers is also pretty relevant.
FWIW, I personally did not want the Yanks to give up ANY decent prospects for Bruce. I dont think there are many fans who wanted Bruce in exchange for prospects either. So lets not get all hyoed up thinking that the Mets out maneuvered the Yankees. They didnt and Yankee fans are pretty glad the Mets turned down that offer. The last thing the Yankees need is another power hitter who hits under .260
BA is the most overrated stat in baseball. Bruce has an .840 OPS in a tough hitters park. He would have killed at YS. Yanks should have eaten the salary.
First day, you catch a cold. Second day, it rains. Third day - your leg gets amputated. Someone offers you a $100 to take that $1,000 boat rental off your hands. You happily take it, it's an extra $100 and that boat ride is useless to you now.
Do you look at that $100 as $100 less you spent on a wasted vacation? Or do you keep it in your top drawer and saw "cool, I got an extra hundred bucks to spend on next years vacation"?
In this case, this ownership group looks at it in the former.
And you appear to provide no value to prospects (which can help future teams at a fraction of the cost), which is bizarre.
The following RP are guys to watch as potential big leaguers in the system (I'm not including guys like Dunn who likely end up there but aren't yet)
Uceta (might be the best RP in the system)
Smith
Bashlor
Callahan
Corey Taylor
Nogolsek
Blackham (fully admit I'm going 100% on numbers with him, oddly very little info on him)
Bautista
McGeorge
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FWIW, I personally did not want the Yanks to give up ANY decent prospects for Bruce. I dont think there are many fans who wanted Bruce in exchange for prospects either. So lets not get all hyoed up thinking that the Mets out maneuvered the Yankees. They didnt and Yankee fans are pretty glad the Mets turned down that offer. The last thing the Yankees need is another power hitter who hits under .260
BA is the most overrated stat in baseball. Bruce has an .840 OPS in a tough hitters park. He would have killed at YS. Yanks should have eaten the salary.
Haha. Gotta love all the Mets fans trying to point at the Yankees for blowing this. Nobody knows what prospects were involved so saying one side or the other "should have done this or that" is ridiculous. I'm going to go ahead and trust Cashman on this. If he didn't feel it was worth giving up whichever prospects the Mets were asking for AND paying the entire salary, so be it. Let me know who the prospects were and then I'll choose sides.
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Your wife talks you into spending a little extra. You get the house on the beach. Rented a boat for a day, jet skis, etc. whole week is well planned - and cost a little more than you wanted to. But let's go for it, forecast calls for great weather and a once in a lifetime trip.
First day, you catch a cold. Second day, it rains. Third day - your leg gets amputated. Someone offers you a $100 to take that $1,000 boat rental off your hands. You happily take it, it's an extra $100 and that boat ride is useless to you now.
Do you look at that $100 as $100 less you spent on a wasted vacation? Or do you keep it in your top drawer and saw "cool, I got an extra hundred bucks to spend on next years vacation"?
In this case, this ownership group looks at it in the former.
And you appear to provide no value to prospects (which can help future teams at a fraction of the cost), which is bizarre.
Good point. A $50 Mobil gift card for gas money had to be thrown in to seal the deal