Eli is not a leader!

Have a fiery qb who gets in people's faces and lets them have it than two Superbowls. Eli is such a wussy boy...

What we sometimes forget, is that there are a bunch of stupid Giants fans out there that are regrettably similar in their idiocy to other teams' fans we loathe

but he's also kinda sucked for a few seasons now. he hasn't had any magic for going on five seasons. he has a lot fewer excuses this year - i'm hopeful he can still get it done.

Eli s body language. The guy in big spots has been a tremendous quarterback. Also the idea that Eli only made two great throws in the Super Bowls or that the Giants were lucky to win, always overlooks all the other great plays and wins during the season and the play offs to get to the point where Tyree s and Maningham s miraculous catches mattered.

Your frien the coach sounds like a guy who gets a perception and won t allow common sense or facts to alter that idea.

As to Eli being greatest Giants quarterback, as a fan who watched YAT, Tarkenton, and Simms, I m not as ready to concede that point. But he is certainly in the conversation.

I get a lot of the criticism. We tend to live in the past and fawn over our two championships in the manning era but the fact of the matter is during his 12 year career he has only advanced in the playoffs those two times. I don't think Eli has ever been an upper echelon star player in this league but hes always been good and hes as durable as they get. I think when you look at "good" numbers piled up over 12 injury free seasons they can be mistaken for great. While he is a hall of fame caliber player, I can maybe only think of one season (2011) where could be considered an All-Pro QB

than I ever would have thought.

Whether it's the trade from San Diego, Peyton's little brother, body language, whatever.

Personally, I think Eli would be more appreciated in the pre-fantasy football era.

Slumped shoulders or not, we are being spoiled right now.

Imagine being the Browns and their 20 startinf QBs in 9 years

but I agree with the sentiment that we may not fully know what we had until he's all finished - even if he retires with the 2 rings and maybe a couple more decent seasons, and failed playoff runs.

Offensively, who was the best player on the field last January in Green Bay?

No surprise, number 10.

...anyone who insists on a MANLY QB, a MAN'S MAN who STANDS TALL in the pocket and mightily leads with might - those who hated on Simms because he was whiny and squirrely and insisted on the manly Brunner and Hostetler, those who ridicule Eli's body language - they really need to come out of the closet and stop the hating and hurting.

I'll take the QB who wins ugly. As long as he win's, I could give a rats ass about how he looks.

:)

He hasn't been great for a while, and last season was rough. But I do try to see pragmatic reasons why. They are discussed every day on BBI, and we hope (and seem to think, so far) most of those factors have been addressed. (More leaping faith is required for the O-line optimism, of course).

Yes, it's the 2 rings. But to say he's not a leader? The guys in the locker room certainly have a healthy respect for him, and he absolutely has set the standard for work ethic and preparation.

He is likely among the leaders in the category "Pro Athletes Who Have Maximized Their Ability."

In comment 13554688 x meadowlander said:

Quote:

...anyone who insists on a MANLY QB, a MAN'S MAN who STANDS TALL in the pocket and mightily leads with might - those who hated on Simms because he was whiny and squirrely and insisted on the manly Brunner and Hostetler, those who ridicule Eli's body language - they really need to come out of the closet and stop the hating and hurting. I'll take the QB who wins ugly. As long as he win's, I could give a rats ass about how he looks. :)

See? Someone stepped up to demonstrate how stupid some Giants fans are to prove the point!

One of the great myths on this board is that somehow Giants fans are more football saavy and mature than fans of other teams. That is nonsense.

In comment 13554669 GiantNatty said:

Quote:

but he's also kinda sucked for a few seasons now. he hasn't had any magic for going on five seasons. he has a lot fewer excuses this year - i'm hopeful he can still get it done.

I agree that Eli was not good last year, but to say he has kind of sucked for a few seasons is a bit unfair. 2016 aligns perfectly with his strange cyclical career arc where every third year (REGULAR SEASON) is not good.

2007: leads the league in interceptions
2010: leads the league in interceptions
2013: leads the league in interceptions

While he did not lead the league in picks in 2016, we all know he struggled. That being said, he was excellent in the playoff game against GB, with no help from his receivers.

Now to your original point about him sucking for a few years. Here are his stats for 2014 and 2015, including a pro bowl berth in 2015:

2014: 63.1% Completion %; 4,410 yards; 30 TDs; 14 Ints
2015: 62.6% Completion %; 4,432 yards; 35 TDs; 14 Ints

Spew all you want about garbage time stats in 2014 and 2015. The main reason people hate on Eli besides his body language is the fact that he does not put up the gaudy fantasy football stats that elite QBs put up. He was pretty damn good in that regard in 2014 and 2015. If the cyclical nature of his career continues, he is due for a big season in 2017.

He's not a ginger.

Ask yourself this. Would the Giants have one the last two superbowls without Eli? No they would not have even been in the game. So who cares what haters think or say.

one = won

In comment 13554693 Beezer said:

Quote:

He hasn't been great for a while, and last season was rough. But I do try to see pragmatic reasons why. They are discussed every day on BBI, and we hope (and seem to think, so far) most of those factors have been addressed. (More leaping faith is required for the O-line optimism, of course).

You mentioned that you seek pragmatic reasons why the offense was what it was. They have been discussed and are valid. But why do you think, Eli hasn't been great for a while especially alluding to last season? Throw away all the supporting reasons why the offense sputtered. Compare Eli to Eli.

This myth that Eli was bad last season has been espoused by many on BBI including Eric. During this past off-season, there were some pining for Webb to unseat Eli. Some pointed to the last 2 years of Eli's contract where he could be cut. But look at Eli's career numbers and his individual season stats. Eli was not bad last season.

Ask yourself if Eli was so bad, how did he muster to have a completion percentage of 63% that exceeds his career completion percentage of 60%? How did he have a QBR of 86 when he has a career QBR of 84? Were his season stats less than the 2015 year? Of course, they were. But that doesn't mean he was bad, rather he was that good in 2015. In fact, over his career, he only has thrown for more yards 3 times (2011, 2014, 2015).

...early in his career, he was awful in the 2nd and 3rd quarters - but God, he could ALWAYS deliver in the 4th quarter. Closer the clock got to 0:00, the more dangerous he was.

The interceptions have always been there - but that's because he's always been a high-risk, high-reward QB, and looking back at his career, who could argue? There are 3 NFC East teams that would have killed to have Eli's success.

As a fan, I watch for entertainment. Bar none, Eli has been the most entertaining Giant QB of my lifetime. He delivers. The way he shrugs off interceptions is NOT a weakness. That is a strength.

Like Simms, the complaints will disappear the minute he is gone, and like Simms, all future Giant QB's will be measured against his success.

2015 was a pretty damn good year. Off the top of my head it was probably one of the best ever for a Giants QB and probably only topped by another year by Eli. The problem in '15 wasn't Eli.

I think he's going to have a great year this year (maybe his best), but the stupid haters will still hate.. and be stupid. Maybe I should say misguided to be nice.

Because he doesn't put up the numbers of the indoor turf guys? Rewatch the beating he took in the San Fran NFC Championship game for as gutty a performance as you'll ever see. There aren't many QBs in the league that could handle the NY media with the grace he has. Does he throw some head scratchers sometimes? Sure. But considering the insane expectations, Eli has delivered 2 Super Bowls (at least)!

You can at once acknowledge and appreciate who Eli is, what he's done for this franchise, and the career he's had, while at the same time, point out things you wish he would do better.

I do think his body language when some things go wrong isn't what I would like to see. However, that doesn't mean he's not a leader, he is. His teammates respect him and that's evident. They listen to him. He's been around long enough. And he hasn't been afraid to correct his receivers on their route running if they make a mistake. And all that said, at times, he has taken rightful criticism for poor play. He knows he has to be better this year, despite whether or not the OL play, run game, or receiver play is improved or not, and we all expect that it will be on all accounts.

I'd rather have Eli than most of the QBs in the league, and that includes some QBs that are perceived to be "better than" Eli.

into thinking that he knows what he's talking about. It depends on the school, and how much they invest in the program. Many schools require that coaching positions be offered to staff before looking outside, so he could have simply been the best of a bad lot.

I hear all the time from Eli and NYG haters how Eli was lucky, and made only a couple of good plays in both SB's, but that overlooks a couple of key points. I would point out the Giants defensive and rushing rankings for the 2011 season. 30th and 31st, respectively, yet Eli put that team on his back and carried them to the playoffs. Then proceeded to make one of the greatest throws in SB history to secure the win.

That, and how well he played in brutal conditions in the NFCC game in GB in 2008. Or what a beating he took in the NFCC game in SF in 2012. Haters gonna hate.

In comment 13554684 Beezer said:

Quote:

but I agree with the sentiment that we may not fully know what we had until he's all finished - even if he retires with the 2 rings and maybe a couple more decent seasons, and failed playoff runs.

I fully know

does not make a person a leader.

You know what makes him a leader..

On a cold field in Green Bay watching Michael Strahan telling Eli

Thank you man.. I love you man..

And Eli saying in return...

"We going to get you one"

and then going out doing it..

Thats being a leader.. period.. end of story..

...really, the 07' team wasn't much better - both teams were streaky as hell, and Eli ABSOLUTELY carried them on his back. Both of those seasons were injury-marred, featured mid season collapses and backing-in to the playoffs.

07' Eli was freaking AMAZING in Dallas and especially Green Bay, 11' game against San Francisco is one of the best, gutsiest performances EVER by a Giant QB.

No, he didn't do it alone, but damned near.

The one time the Giants DID have a team built to win it all, best in class - Plax shot it in the ass.

He doesn't have any....


LOL

it's hard for me to understand Giants fans who don't appreciate Eli (even though I know a few). SB 42 as the single best sports-related event in my life. It can't get better than that. Ever. That was all Eli.

It'll break my heart a little the day he's no longer a Giant.

(Oh, and those on this thread who've dismissed his play "the past few years," WTF? He definitely had a down year last year, but he played very well in 2015.)

that say stupid shit - you get it right here on BBI consistently. This viewpoint gets thrown out a lot around here:

Quote:

eli is a leader (and i'm a big fan too) GiantNatty : 9:06 am : link : reply but he's also kinda sucked for a few seasons now. he hasn't had any magic for going on five seasons. he has a lot fewer excuses this year - i'm hopeful he can still get it done.

Statistically speaking, 2014 and 2015 were Eli's best/better years, yet people will say "Eli's kinda sucked for awhile now", not think to separate the team performance from that of Eli (but having no qualms to say the defense carried eli last year).

If we can't expect supposed fans of the team to realize this, what hope do we have for others?

In comment 13554747 allstarjim said:

Quote:

You can at once acknowledge and appreciate who Eli is, what he's done for this franchise, and the career he's had, while at the same time, point out things you wish he would do better. I do think his body language when some things go wrong isn't what I would like to see. However, that doesn't mean he's not a leader, he is. His teammates respect him and that's evident. They listen to him. He's been around long enough. And he hasn't been afraid to correct his receivers on their route running if they make a mistake. And all that said, at times, he has taken rightful criticism for poor play. He knows he has to be better this year, despite whether or not the OL play, run game, or receiver play is improved or not, and we all expect that it will be on all accounts. I'd rather have Eli than most of the QBs in the league, and that includes some QBs that are perceived to be "better than" Eli.

I can't believe that after a decade and more, people care about "body language".

who values body language over the ability to perform under pressure is an idiot. I want the jackass on the opposite sideline from the one I'm on.

What people think of Eli is the best football intelligence test.

These idiots won't appreciate Eli until he's gone!

In comment 13554848 Fred in Atlanta said:

Quote:

What people think of Eli is the best football intelligence test.

I've thought that too, for a long time.

Our new HOF QB Kurt warner had 22 interceptions the year he won MVP.

Quote:

I really believe Fred in Atlanta : 10:57 am : link : reply What people think of Eli is the best football intelligence test.

Especially those who proactively went out of their way to discuss other QB's they thought were better, a list that at a point in time included guys like:

- Jay Cutler
- Mark Sanchez
- Josh Freeman
- RGIII
- Colin Kaepernick
- Matt Schaub
- Nick Foles
- Sam Bradford

I still remember a thread on if we should hope that Freeman took over for Eli when he was the backup for the millisecond before he was cut.

I bet if somebody wrote a thread asking if those QB's were better than Ben, they'd get ripped a new one - but when people started threads about the QB's above, it often was met with defense of the topic and the belief those supporting Eli were "blind homers".

And Mark Sanchez and Eli are masterful at being game managers in the playoffs......

is that his overall body of work in the regular season is somewhere below "great" but better than just "good".

So let's call it 12 seasons of VERY GOOD football from our QB. He's thrown a high number of ints IMO because of the system in which he played the majority of his career, and he's much more of a risk taker at the position than most other QBs which can definitely be a double edge sword.

His willingness to take risks has landed him atop the league in ints a few times, but it's also the reason he stared down a Belechick defense twice in the 4th quarter in the biggest games of his life and came out on top.

And by the way, if his regular seasons have been very good, his postseasons have been great.

I will never forget Sam Bradford being pointed at as a near certainty to have a better career than Eli.

I'll bring up another name that was guaranteed to have a better career: Andrew Luck. While his story certainly isn't yet written, by this point in Luck's career Eli had already led his team to a Super Bowl title.

Any leadership, elite/non-elite, Pro Bowl or All-Pro nominations, MVPs, Hall of Fame...all that shit is subjective and individualized. It's all debatable, and it's not about the team.

Here is what is not debatable: twice in his career Eli Manning was the principle factor in turning Super Bowl defeats into victories. If he retired today, that would be his legacy and it's a pretty damn good one.

That MVP award will go on their resumes and will be used by many as an argument that they are better than Eli Manning. As a counter I would use the following GIFs, each taken from the Super Bowl...each was a crucial play that was critical in determining the outcome of the game:







You can take your MVP awards. I know the guy I want on my team.

Giants fans who carry the hate for Eli. My wife and I actually had to cut off and walk away from another couple who are huge, bleeding Blue Giants fans because of the inane criticism and hate for Eli. Watching games together with those two, which we often did, grew to be painful. They would sit on the edge of their seats poised to criticize and comment on any small detail of Elis play. And many times, after crucifying him, they would be jumping for joy when Eli engineered many comeback victories. There was no justice, no acknowledgement that perhaps they were hasty with the hate.
It hurt for a while to walk away but both of us are happy we did.

hearing the annual "Eli is done" refrain I get from a lot of my Giants fan acquaintances. Yes, one day Eli will be done, and the people calling for his head all along will sigh a breath of relief or say something like "He should have been out of there years ago." This despite the fact that if these people had their way, he would have been out of NY back in 2007 and we'd have two less Super Bowl rings because of it.

And yet, these people are still smarter than that guy going on and on about body language.

My only complaint, albeit a small one, is that he runs like a girl.

In comment 13554686 Chris684 said:

Quote:

Offensively, who was the best player on the field last January in Green Bay? No surprise, number 10.

Except of course, he wasn't...

I can't get enough of these Eli critics year after year. It's entertainment at it's best. Just wait until you hear the cries when you have another Dave Brown, Jerry Golsteyn, Randy Dean, Kent Graham, Danny Kanell and Joe Pisarcik era. You guys have no idea. Here's a guy in Manning that gave you not one but two iconic SB runs, will finish in the top ten in every category over the history of this league and there are still morons questioning his worth. This is priceless.

who was better or more prepared for that playoff game?

In comment 13555020 Chris684 said:

Quote:

who was better or more prepared for that playoff game?

Oh, I didn't know you meant just the Giants.

Agree, Eli was on money early and then was a target when fell behind 2 scores...

we have seen some bonehead plays by Eli.....but that happens to a lot of qb's, but for some reason, his are magnified....

A lot of non-Giant fans, just see highlights of Giant losses and blame it all on Eli.....so what if he has an OL that takes turns screwing up...so what if he doesn't have a RB, or TE, or third WR? Or until last year, a defense that could actually play?

Some guys are very demonstrative when they lead.....others say nothing and lead by example......Manning has been the best QB the Giants have ever had.....it's almost amazing what he has accomplished with the OL's he has played behind, and having no consistent running game....

We have a thin OL.....but if they can stay healthy, and pick up their game just a bit, with the weapons Eli has this season, it may just be his best season ever....

As Giants fans, we are blessed to have Eli as our QB
Marty in Albany : 12:15 pm : link : reply
My only complaint, albeit a small one, is that he runs like a girl.

slides like a girl....

In comment 13554833 FatMan in Charlotte said:

Quote:

that say stupid shit - you get it right here on BBI consistently. This viewpoint gets thrown out a lot around here: Quote: eli is a leader (and i'm a big fan too) GiantNatty : 9:06 am : link : reply but he's also kinda sucked for a few seasons now. he hasn't had any magic for going on five seasons. he has a lot fewer excuses this year - i'm hopeful he can still get it done. Statistically speaking, 2014 and 2015 were Eli's best/better years, yet people will say "Eli's kinda sucked for awhile now", not think to separate the team performance from that of Eli (but having no qualms to say the defense carried eli last year). If we can't expect supposed fans of the team to realize this, what hope do we have for others?

This is GiantNatty at his finest...he's like a broken clock...

it looks like his own lineman was the one that caused him to fall down.

I will say Eli's own coaches, or at least GM, starting talking about his "back nine" and that he wasnt very good this past season... so i cant get on all the fans when our own management isn't exactly praising him.

I also dont buy his lack of weapons last year - he had perhaps the best WR in the sport.

But hopefully 2017 will be closer to 2014/2015 as far as his individual statistics go than 2016 was. The oline has certainly been a big reason for some of the recent issues, and time will tell whether that improves this year.

Finally, it was noted above that "#10 was the best player on the field" this past January. I assume that was meant to be qualified as "best GIANT player on the field" because obviously Rodgers was the best player on the field that day.

In comment 13554985 Marty in Albany said:

Quote:

My only complaint, albeit a small one, is that he runs like a girl.

bahahahahaha

BUT ... who else?

That would be a weapon. Singular. Not weapons. Plural.

And if you have just ONE, maybe a little tougher for that one to get open as often?

The problem with Ryan on that play isn't what physically caused him to fall down, it's that in a situation where above everything he could not take a sack the ball was not out of his hands at the end of his drop. An incompletion would have been OK...they were still in Bryant's field goal range. A sack was unforgivable.

Aikman is on it immediately.
Link - ( New Window )

the undisputed leader of the NY Giants, you haven't been paying attention.

The day he isn't the starting QB of the Giants will be a very dark day.

... 26 TDs and 15 INTs behind an awful offensive line, pedestrian running backs and with zero tight end presence all with a rookie head coach who ran a very conservative offense (oh and yes he played every single game...again).

For those who forgot, he did lead a team that won 11 games and beat the Cowboys twice. He was also one of the few guys who showed up in Green Bay and was ready to play.

Jesus, you'd think the guy was quarterbacking a 5 win team.

I have no problem with him throwing some picks because he's never been a stat guy and always gives his guys chances to make plays (its a crime that these halftime heaves that he throws up are used against against him).

Like Parcells said about Simms - you're gonna miss this guy when he's gone. Not sure I wouldn't sign for another 11 win season in which Eli plays "bad." However, because he has some more weapons this year - Sky's the limit for #10.

you're not alone.

since he was drafted. Even in his first year as a starter, I remember having ridiculous back and forths with some BBI posters, who thought that Eli not being a fiery "rah rah" in your face kind of a player meant that he possessed no leadership capabilities. And while the way people views leadership can be pretty subjective, there are certain qualities that all good leaders possess such as accountability (not making excuses), putting others before himself, setting and example, and facing challenges through determination among other qualities. Eli possesses all of them and more.

I'm sure this coach, who puts way too much stock on body language is a great leader himself...bleh.

makes up for pretty much nothing else at WR, dogshit at TE, and dogshit at RB? Beckham is great but that would be hard for any WR

Only a rookie Shepard and a rookie Perkins were somewhat capable at any point last season besides Beckham.

Statistically 2016 wasnt even that bad for Manning. The problem was more in and around the pocket/bailing out too early due to a below average OL.

2016 wasnt a great year for Manning but definitely wasnt bad.

In comment 13555129 dorgan said:

Quote:

you're not alone.

+1. I didn't want to overwhelm the reader with stats in my above post. But he was very good especially considering the supporting cast. Even if you eliminate the "reasons" why the offense sputtered, Eli exceeded career benchmarks and finished the season as one of his top 4 of his career.

In comment 13555129 dorgan said:

Quote:

you're not alone.

Dorgan - I know. You're absolutely right. I went back and read some of the posts. It just gets very frustrating hearing this sometimes. You get the feeling that some of these people don't watch the games but just see highlights and listen to the talking-heads.

Some of these fans should go back to the days of 1970s when the QB competition was Jerry Goldstein/Randy Dean/Joe Pisarczk and maybe they would see what bad QBing was really like (or even look crosstown to what's going on with the Green team).

In comment 13554669 GiantNatty said:

Quote:

but he's also kinda sucked for a few seasons now. he hasn't had any magic for going on five seasons. he has a lot fewer excuses this year - i'm hopeful he can still get it done.

Kind of sucked?

Do you guys watch other qbs play football? Define "kind of sucked?"

Actually don't. I don't care.

come in different shapes and forms. he's not a vocal leader or a manager of other positions (when the giants are on defense, he is standing next to the QB coach/backup QBs or offensive coordinator, not sitting next to his receivers or linemen giving them advice about how to handle situations).

he accepts accountability, doesn't show up his teammates and keeps a calm/poised disposition which are traits of good leaders.

Every single Eli hater comment: His defense carried him to two Super Bowls, he throws INTs.

he’s not a leader comes more from the older Giants fans I talk to in person who are still obsessed with Phil Simms

Yeah kinard, agreed. Everything is about that stupid stat sheet, passer rating and opinions given by people who barely/never watch any Giants games.

In comment 13555236 Route 9 said:

Quote:

Every single Eli hater comment: His defense carried him to two Super Bowls, he throws INTs. he’s not a leader comes more from the older Giants fans I talk to in person who are still obsessed with Phil Simms .

A lot of those obsessed with Phil Simms, would be complaining about him when he was playing. I remember my dad complaining the Simms held on to the ball to long and took to many sacks.

That's Franz Shubert, btw. He wrote lieders. I hate lieders.

In comment 13555125 kinard said:

Quote:

... 26 TDs and 15 INTs behind an awful offensive line, pedestrian running backs and with zero tight end presence all with a rookie head coach who ran a very conservative offense (oh and yes he played every single game...again). For those who forgot, he did lead a team that won 11 games and beat the Cowboys twice. He was also one of the few guys who showed up in Green Bay and was ready to play. Jesus, you'd think the guy was quarterbacking a 5 win team. I have no problem with him throwing some picks because he's never been a stat guy and always gives his guys chances to make plays (its a crime that these halftime heaves that he throws up are used against against him). Like Parcells said about Simms - you're gonna miss this guy when he's gone. Not sure I wouldn't sign for another 11 win season in which Eli plays "bad." However, because he has some more weapons this year - Sky's the limit for #10.

You may not be alone, but you're wrong. If you're the QB of a bottom-seven scoring offense, and you're looking up at Jacksonville, outscoring the Niners by a single point, you didn't have a good year. You can throw numbers at me and say offensive line this and running game and not enough receivers, and all that would be true, but I think Eli would be the first to tell you he needed to be better to compensate for a lot of those things. Those are all fine arguments, don't get me wrong, but you can't say he had a good year. You might be able to say, "he did what he could with what he had." In addition, he was particularly inefficient in the redzone. Everyone shits on Blake Bortles but he was better in the red zone than Eli Manning.

And some can't wait to run his out of town. I just don't get it.

was not a leader, the players would have turned on him and the team and gone through the motions, and the Giants would have drafted a serious replacement after '09 or '10, or even '12 or '13.

In comment 13555269 allstarjim said:

Quote:

You may not be alone, but you're wrong. If you're the QB of a bottom-seven scoring offense, and you're looking up at Jacksonville, outscoring the Niners by a single point, you didn't have a good year. You can throw numbers at me and say offensive line this and running game and not enough receivers, and all that would be true, but I think Eli would be the first to tell you he needed to be better to compensate for a lot of those things. Those are all fine arguments, don't get me wrong, but you can't say he had a good year. You might be able to say, "he did what he could with what he had." In addition, he was particularly inefficient in the redzone. Everyone shits on Blake Bortles but he was better in the red zone than Eli Manning.

I would agree with the notion that Eli did the best with what he had last year, but red zone numbers are influenced by the talent you have around you. And the RZ is where the Giants' offensive shortcomings came home to roost. No running game to speak of, no TE's to keep defenses honest, and a leaky OL. Double Odell, and what were Eli's options? If he has the same issues this year, then he's part of the problem.

In comment 13555269 allstarjim said:

Quote:

In comment 13555125 kinard said: Quote: ... 26 TDs and 15 INTs behind an awful offensive line, pedestrian running backs and with zero tight end presence all with a rookie head coach who ran a very conservative offense (oh and yes he played every single game...again). For those who forgot, he did lead a team that won 11 games and beat the Cowboys twice. He was also one of the few guys who showed up in Green Bay and was ready to play. Jesus, you'd think the guy was quarterbacking a 5 win team. I have no problem with him throwing some picks because he's never been a stat guy and always gives his guys chances to make plays (its a crime that these halftime heaves that he throws up are used against against him). Like Parcells said about Simms - you're gonna miss this guy when he's gone. Not sure I wouldn't sign for another 11 win season in which Eli plays "bad." However, because he has some more weapons this year - Sky's the limit for #10. You may not be alone, but you're wrong. If you're the QB of a bottom-seven scoring offense, and you're looking up at Jacksonville, outscoring the Niners by a single point, you didn't have a good year. You can throw numbers at me and say offensive line this and running game and not enough receivers, and all that would be true, but I think Eli would be the first to tell you he needed to be better to compensate for a lot of those things. Those are all fine arguments, don't get me wrong, but you can't say he had a good year. You might be able to say, "he did what he could with what he had." In addition, he was particularly inefficient in the redzone. Everyone shits on Blake Bortles but he was better in the red zone than Eli Manning.

Giants were 26th in points scored in 2016. Won 11 Games. Chargers were 26th in points in 2015. Won 4 games. Funny going into the 2016 season I don't recall anyone saying that Phillip Rivers had a bad year. Yet the consensus seems to be that Eli Manning had a bad year in 2016. Why is that? Now you're "red zoning" me? The one place on the field where success is predicated on offense line play, a good tight end and a competent running game? There are 11 guys the offense my friend. Not one man is responsible for the success or failures of a team. A couple of guys break down and it sabotages the entire unit.
Do you know how many teams had more WINS than Giants in 2016? Four. If you're the QB of team that wins more games than 85%-90% of all the other teams in the NFL, I'd say that's a "good" year, wouldn't you? Wins - that's the stat that I care about.

Just plain idiotic. Too many listen to what the idiots on ESPN tell them.

In comment 13554853 Moondawg said:

Quote:

Our new HOF QB Kurt warner had 22 interceptions the year he won MVP.

Here are a few more fun facts.

Kurt Warner threw 22 picks that year - the only time in his career he threw over 20. He did so while throwing 36TDs at 8.8 yds p/a.

Eli has threw < 20 three times in his career and led the league each time. In each of those seasons, he never averaged more than 7.5 ypa - even while we most of us would consider those offenses as vertical passing schemes.

So while we all love to shit on Kurt Warner, and he's earned certainly earned a lot it, it's probably fair to say he's the more accomplished passers.

I like Eli. He's tough as nails; and, in spite of the dopey demeanor, I do think he's a leader. There's no taking away how well he played on those two runs. The NFC game vs. SF may be the most impressive performance I've seen from a QB under constant duress.

With that said, it's fair to criticize him. He's been up and down and wildly inconsistent game to game during regular seasons. He makes a ton of boneheaded plays you'd expect a seasoned vet to have grown out of by now.

He wasn't bad by any stretch, but I wouldn't chalk last year up to being a solid year either for our QB. On a Eli-scale of 1-10, maybe he was a "6"?

Of course there were circumstances to consider (bad O-line and basically one weapon in OBJ), but Eli showed signs of his age and lack of patience, at least to me. I recall plenty of inaccurate downfield throws, looking too much at the pass rush and more willingness to give up on a play than make it work.

Big Eli-fan and cannot imagine this team without him, but them's the facts...

Obviously..

the coach recognized the offensive shortcomings and that the team's strength was the defense, so he coached beyond conservative on O.

In comment 13555371 GMenLTS said:

Quote:

the coach recognized the offensive shortcomings and that the team's strength was the defense, so he coached beyond conservative on O.

And the coach had no problem making it clear that the QB's play was a major part of those shortcomings in a way you rarely see from a HC about an entrenched QB.

The team itself, whether it be McAdoo or leaks (big and small), has made it fairly clear they didn't think Eli played well last season and, to some extent, is declining or increasingly too frustrating for some behind the scenes.

I guess people can continue to argue against even them if they want though.

In comment 13555389 Devon said:

Quote:

In comment 13555371 GMenLTS said: Quote: the coach recognized the offensive shortcomings and that the team's strength was the defense, so he coached beyond conservative on O. And the coach had no problem making it clear that the QB's play was a major part of those shortcomings in a way you rarely see from a HC about an entrenched QB. The team itself, whether it be McAdoo or leaks (big and small), has made it fairly clear they didn't think Eli played well last season and, to some extent, is declining or increasingly too frustrating for some behind the scenes.

I would say that the leaks have been going on for some time before Ben came on board. Going back to Jerry's comments about the "hang dog" look. I don't think Jerry has ever been on board with Eli. Certainly, he enjoys the glory of the superbowls, but Eli wasn't his pick. Jerry has never had the opportunity to have his QB. With Coughlin gone, Jerry now only has to manage the transition from Eli to be rid of the last holdover of the Accorsi era.

2012 Washington Post article

The author sees Eli as a perfect leader for the Giants due to his toughness, clutch play and that he makes everyone around him better.

In comment 13555360 Modus Operandi said:

Quote:

In comment 13554853 Moondawg said: Quote: Our new HOF QB Kurt warner had 22 interceptions the year he won MVP. Here are a few more fun facts. Kurt Warner threw 22 picks that year - the only time in his career he threw over 20. He did so while throwing 36TDs at 8.8 yds p/a. Eli has threw < 20 three times in his career and led the league each time. In each of those seasons, he never averaged more than 7.5 ypa - even while we most of us would consider those offenses as vertical passing schemes. So while we all love to shit on Kurt Warner, and he's earned certainly earned a lot it, it's probably fair to say he's the more accomplished passers. I like Eli. He's tough as nails; and, in spite of the dopey demeanor, I do think he's a leader. There's no taking away how well he played on those two runs. The NFC game vs. SF may be the most impressive performance I've seen from a QB under constant duress. With that said, it's fair to criticize him. He's been up and down and wildly inconsistent game to game during regular seasons. He makes a ton of boneheaded plays you'd expect a seasoned vet to have grown out of by now.

No disagreement. I've heard people say that you can't be a great QB and throw 20 int's, but with KW and Drew Brees that is entirely the case.