Eli is not a leader!

Have a fiery qb who gets in people's faces and lets them have it than two Superbowls. Eli is such a wussy boy...

What we sometimes forget, is that there are a bunch of stupid Giants fans out there that are regrettably similar in their idiocy to other teams' fans we loathe

but he's also kinda sucked for a few seasons now. he hasn't had any magic for going on five seasons. he has a lot fewer excuses this year - i'm hopeful he can still get it done.

Eli s body language. The guy in big spots has been a tremendous quarterback. Also the idea that Eli only made two great throws in the Super Bowls or that the Giants were lucky to win, always overlooks all the other great plays and wins during the season and the play offs to get to the point where Tyree s and Maningham s miraculous catches mattered.

Your frien the coach sounds like a guy who gets a perception and won t allow common sense or facts to alter that idea.

As to Eli being greatest Giants quarterback, as a fan who watched YAT, Tarkenton, and Simms, I m not as ready to concede that point. But he is certainly in the conversation.

I get a lot of the criticism. We tend to live in the past and fawn over our two championships in the manning era but the fact of the matter is during his 12 year career he has only advanced in the playoffs those two times. I don't think Eli has ever been an upper echelon star player in this league but hes always been good and hes as durable as they get. I think when you look at "good" numbers piled up over 12 injury free seasons they can be mistaken for great. While he is a hall of fame caliber player, I can maybe only think of one season (2011) where could be considered an All-Pro QB

than I ever would have thought.

Whether it's the trade from San Diego, Peyton's little brother, body language, whatever.

Personally, I think Eli would be more appreciated in the pre-fantasy football era.

Slumped shoulders or not, we are being spoiled right now.

Imagine being the Browns and their 20 startinf QBs in 9 years

but I agree with the sentiment that we may not fully know what we had until he's all finished - even if he retires with the 2 rings and maybe a couple more decent seasons, and failed playoff runs.

Offensively, who was the best player on the field last January in Green Bay?

No surprise, number 10.

...anyone who insists on a MANLY QB, a MAN'S MAN who STANDS TALL in the pocket and mightily leads with might - those who hated on Simms because he was whiny and squirrely and insisted on the manly Brunner and Hostetler, those who ridicule Eli's body language - they really need to come out of the closet and stop the hating and hurting.

I'll take the QB who wins ugly. As long as he win's, I could give a rats ass about how he looks.

:)

He hasn't been great for a while, and last season was rough. But I do try to see pragmatic reasons why. They are discussed every day on BBI, and we hope (and seem to think, so far) most of those factors have been addressed. (More leaping faith is required for the O-line optimism, of course).

Yes, it's the 2 rings. But to say he's not a leader? The guys in the locker room certainly have a healthy respect for him, and he absolutely has set the standard for work ethic and preparation.

He is likely among the leaders in the category "Pro Athletes Who Have Maximized Their Ability."

In comment 13554688 x meadowlander said:

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...anyone who insists on a MANLY QB, a MAN'S MAN who STANDS TALL in the pocket and mightily leads with might - those who hated on Simms because he was whiny and squirrely and insisted on the manly Brunner and Hostetler, those who ridicule Eli's body language - they really need to come out of the closet and stop the hating and hurting. I'll take the QB who wins ugly. As long as he win's, I could give a rats ass about how he looks. :)

See? Someone stepped up to demonstrate how stupid some Giants fans are to prove the point!

One of the great myths on this board is that somehow Giants fans are more football saavy and mature than fans of other teams. That is nonsense.

In comment 13554669 GiantNatty said:

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but he's also kinda sucked for a few seasons now. he hasn't had any magic for going on five seasons. he has a lot fewer excuses this year - i'm hopeful he can still get it done.

I agree that Eli was not good last year, but to say he has kind of sucked for a few seasons is a bit unfair. 2016 aligns perfectly with his strange cyclical career arc where every third year (REGULAR SEASON) is not good.

2007: leads the league in interceptions
2010: leads the league in interceptions
2013: leads the league in interceptions

While he did not lead the league in picks in 2016, we all know he struggled. That being said, he was excellent in the playoff game against GB, with no help from his receivers.

Now to your original point about him sucking for a few years. Here are his stats for 2014 and 2015, including a pro bowl berth in 2015:

2014: 63.1% Completion %; 4,410 yards; 30 TDs; 14 Ints
2015: 62.6% Completion %; 4,432 yards; 35 TDs; 14 Ints

Spew all you want about garbage time stats in 2014 and 2015. The main reason people hate on Eli besides his body language is the fact that he does not put up the gaudy fantasy football stats that elite QBs put up. He was pretty damn good in that regard in 2014 and 2015. If the cyclical nature of his career continues, he is due for a big season in 2017.

He's not a ginger.

Ask yourself this. Would the Giants have one the last two superbowls without Eli? No they would not have even been in the game. So who cares what haters think or say.

one = won

In comment 13554693 Beezer said:

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He hasn't been great for a while, and last season was rough. But I do try to see pragmatic reasons why. They are discussed every day on BBI, and we hope (and seem to think, so far) most of those factors have been addressed. (More leaping faith is required for the O-line optimism, of course).

You mentioned that you seek pragmatic reasons why the offense was what it was. They have been discussed and are valid. But why do you think, Eli hasn't been great for a while especially alluding to last season? Throw away all the supporting reasons why the offense sputtered. Compare Eli to Eli.

This myth that Eli was bad last season has been espoused by many on BBI including Eric. During this past off-season, there were some pining for Webb to unseat Eli. Some pointed to the last 2 years of Eli's contract where he could be cut. But look at Eli's career numbers and his individual season stats. Eli was not bad last season.

Ask yourself if Eli was so bad, how did he muster to have a completion percentage of 63% that exceeds his career completion percentage of 60%? How did he have a QBR of 86 when he has a career QBR of 84? Were his season stats less than the 2015 year? Of course, they were. But that doesn't mean he was bad, rather he was that good in 2015. In fact, over his career, he only has thrown for more yards 3 times (2011, 2014, 2015).

...early in his career, he was awful in the 2nd and 3rd quarters - but God, he could ALWAYS deliver in the 4th quarter. Closer the clock got to 0:00, the more dangerous he was.

The interceptions have always been there - but that's because he's always been a high-risk, high-reward QB, and looking back at his career, who could argue? There are 3 NFC East teams that would have killed to have Eli's success.

As a fan, I watch for entertainment. Bar none, Eli has been the most entertaining Giant QB of my lifetime. He delivers. The way he shrugs off interceptions is NOT a weakness. That is a strength.

Like Simms, the complaints will disappear the minute he is gone, and like Simms, all future Giant QB's will be measured against his success.

2015 was a pretty damn good year. Off the top of my head it was probably one of the best ever for a Giants QB and probably only topped by another year by Eli. The problem in '15 wasn't Eli.

I think he's going to have a great year this year (maybe his best), but the stupid haters will still hate.. and be stupid. Maybe I should say misguided to be nice.

Because he doesn't put up the numbers of the indoor turf guys? Rewatch the beating he took in the San Fran NFC Championship game for as gutty a performance as you'll ever see. There aren't many QBs in the league that could handle the NY media with the grace he has. Does he throw some head scratchers sometimes? Sure. But considering the insane expectations, Eli has delivered 2 Super Bowls (at least)!

You can at once acknowledge and appreciate who Eli is, what he's done for this franchise, and the career he's had, while at the same time, point out things you wish he would do better.

I do think his body language when some things go wrong isn't what I would like to see. However, that doesn't mean he's not a leader, he is. His teammates respect him and that's evident. They listen to him. He's been around long enough. And he hasn't been afraid to correct his receivers on their route running if they make a mistake. And all that said, at times, he has taken rightful criticism for poor play. He knows he has to be better this year, despite whether or not the OL play, run game, or receiver play is improved or not, and we all expect that it will be on all accounts.

I'd rather have Eli than most of the QBs in the league, and that includes some QBs that are perceived to be "better than" Eli.

into thinking that he knows what he's talking about. It depends on the school, and how much they invest in the program. Many schools require that coaching positions be offered to staff before looking outside, so he could have simply been the best of a bad lot.

I hear all the time from Eli and NYG haters how Eli was lucky, and made only a couple of good plays in both SB's, but that overlooks a couple of key points. I would point out the Giants defensive and rushing rankings for the 2011 season. 30th and 31st, respectively, yet Eli put that team on his back and carried them to the playoffs. Then proceeded to make one of the greatest throws in SB history to secure the win.

That, and how well he played in brutal conditions in the NFCC game in GB in 2008. Or what a beating he took in the NFCC game in SF in 2012. Haters gonna hate.

In comment 13554684 Beezer said:

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but I agree with the sentiment that we may not fully know what we had until he's all finished - even if he retires with the 2 rings and maybe a couple more decent seasons, and failed playoff runs.

I fully know

does not make a person a leader.

You know what makes him a leader..

On a cold field in Green Bay watching Michael Strahan telling Eli

Thank you man.. I love you man..

And Eli saying in return...

"We going to get you one"

and then going out doing it..

Thats being a leader.. period.. end of story..

...really, the 07' team wasn't much better - both teams were streaky as hell, and Eli ABSOLUTELY carried them on his back. Both of those seasons were injury-marred, featured mid season collapses and backing-in to the playoffs.

07' Eli was freaking AMAZING in Dallas and especially Green Bay, 11' game against San Francisco is one of the best, gutsiest performances EVER by a Giant QB.

No, he didn't do it alone, but damned near.

The one time the Giants DID have a team built to win it all, best in class - Plax shot it in the ass.

He doesn't have any....


LOL

it's hard for me to understand Giants fans who don't appreciate Eli (even though I know a few). SB 42 as the single best sports-related event in my life. It can't get better than that. Ever. That was all Eli.

It'll break my heart a little the day he's no longer a Giant.

(Oh, and those on this thread who've dismissed his play "the past few years," WTF? He definitely had a down year last year, but he played very well in 2015.)

that say stupid shit - you get it right here on BBI consistently. This viewpoint gets thrown out a lot around here:

Quote:

eli is a leader (and i'm a big fan too) GiantNatty : 9:06 am : link : reply but he's also kinda sucked for a few seasons now. he hasn't had any magic for going on five seasons. he has a lot fewer excuses this year - i'm hopeful he can still get it done.

Statistically speaking, 2014 and 2015 were Eli's best/better years, yet people will say "Eli's kinda sucked for awhile now", not think to separate the team performance from that of Eli (but having no qualms to say the defense carried eli last year).

If we can't expect supposed fans of the team to realize this, what hope do we have for others?

In comment 13554747 allstarjim said:

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You can at once acknowledge and appreciate who Eli is, what he's done for this franchise, and the career he's had, while at the same time, point out things you wish he would do better. I do think his body language when some things go wrong isn't what I would like to see. However, that doesn't mean he's not a leader, he is. His teammates respect him and that's evident. They listen to him. He's been around long enough. And he hasn't been afraid to correct his receivers on their route running if they make a mistake. And all that said, at times, he has taken rightful criticism for poor play. He knows he has to be better this year, despite whether or not the OL play, run game, or receiver play is improved or not, and we all expect that it will be on all accounts. I'd rather have Eli than most of the QBs in the league, and that includes some QBs that are perceived to be "better than" Eli.

I can't believe that after a decade and more, people care about "body language".

who values body language over the ability to perform under pressure is an idiot. I want the jackass on the opposite sideline from the one I'm on.

What people think of Eli is the best football intelligence test.

These idiots won't appreciate Eli until he's gone!

In comment 13554848 Fred in Atlanta said:

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What people think of Eli is the best football intelligence test.

I've thought that too, for a long time.

Our new HOF QB Kurt warner had 22 interceptions the year he won MVP.

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I really believe Fred in Atlanta : 10:57 am : link : reply What people think of Eli is the best football intelligence test.

Especially those who proactively went out of their way to discuss other QB's they thought were better, a list that at a point in time included guys like:

- Jay Cutler
- Mark Sanchez
- Josh Freeman
- RGIII
- Colin Kaepernick
- Matt Schaub
- Nick Foles
- Sam Bradford

I still remember a thread on if we should hope that Freeman took over for Eli when he was the backup for the millisecond before he was cut.

I bet if somebody wrote a thread asking if those QB's were better than Ben, they'd get ripped a new one - but when people started threads about the QB's above, it often was met with defense of the topic and the belief those supporting Eli were "blind homers".

And Mark Sanchez and Eli are masterful at being game managers in the playoffs......

is that his overall body of work in the regular season is somewhere below "great" but better than just "good".

So let's call it 12 seasons of VERY GOOD football from our QB. He's thrown a high number of ints IMO because of the system in which he played the majority of his career, and he's much more of a risk taker at the position than most other QBs which can definitely be a double edge sword.

His willingness to take risks has landed him atop the league in ints a few times, but it's also the reason he stared down a Belechick defense twice in the 4th quarter in the biggest games of his life and came out on top.

And by the way, if his regular seasons have been very good, his postseasons have been great.

I will never forget Sam Bradford being pointed at as a near certainty to have a better career than Eli.

I'll bring up another name that was guaranteed to have a better career: Andrew Luck. While his story certainly isn't yet written, by this point in Luck's career Eli had already led his team to a Super Bowl title.

Any leadership, elite/non-elite, Pro Bowl or All-Pro nominations, MVPs, Hall of Fame...all that shit is subjective and individualized. It's all debatable, and it's not about the team.

Here is what is not debatable: twice in his career Eli Manning was the principle factor in turning Super Bowl defeats into victories. If he retired today, that would be his legacy and it's a pretty damn good one.

That MVP award will go on their resumes and will be used by many as an argument that they are better than Eli Manning. As a counter I would use the following GIFs, each taken from the Super Bowl...each was a crucial play that was critical in determining the outcome of the game:







You can take your MVP awards. I know the guy I want on my team.

Giants fans who carry the hate for Eli. My wife and I actually had to cut off and walk away from another couple who are huge, bleeding Blue Giants fans because of the inane criticism and hate for Eli. Watching games together with those two, which we often did, grew to be painful. They would sit on the edge of their seats poised to criticize and comment on any small detail of Elis play. And many times, after crucifying him, they would be jumping for joy when Eli engineered many comeback victories. There was no justice, no acknowledgement that perhaps they were hasty with the hate.
It hurt for a while to walk away but both of us are happy we did.

hearing the annual "Eli is done" refrain I get from a lot of my Giants fan acquaintances. Yes, one day Eli will be done, and the people calling for his head all along will sigh a breath of relief or say something like "He should have been out of there years ago." This despite the fact that if these people had their way, he would have been out of NY back in 2007 and we'd have two less Super Bowl rings because of it.

And yet, these people are still smarter than that guy going on and on about body language.

My only complaint, albeit a small one, is that he runs like a girl.

In comment 13554686 Chris684 said:

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Offensively, who was the best player on the field last January in Green Bay? No surprise, number 10.

Except of course, he wasn't...

I can't get enough of these Eli critics year after year. It's entertainment at it's best. Just wait until you hear the cries when you have another Dave Brown, Jerry Golsteyn, Randy Dean, Kent Graham, Danny Kanell and Joe Pisarcik era. You guys have no idea. Here's a guy in Manning that gave you not one but two iconic SB runs, will finish in the top ten in every category over the history of this league and there are still morons questioning his worth. This is priceless.

who was better or more prepared for that playoff game?

In comment 13555020 Chris684 said:

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who was better or more prepared for that playoff game?

Oh, I didn't know you meant just the Giants.

Agree, Eli was on money early and then was a target when fell behind 2 scores...

we have seen some bonehead plays by Eli.....but that happens to a lot of qb's, but for some reason, his are magnified....

A lot of non-Giant fans, just see highlights of Giant losses and blame it all on Eli.....so what if he has an OL that takes turns screwing up...so what if he doesn't have a RB, or TE, or third WR? Or until last year, a defense that could actually play?

Some guys are very demonstrative when they lead.....others say nothing and lead by example......Manning has been the best QB the Giants have ever had.....it's almost amazing what he has accomplished with the OL's he has played behind, and having no consistent running game....

We have a thin OL.....but if they can stay healthy, and pick up their game just a bit, with the weapons Eli has this season, it may just be his best season ever....

As Giants fans, we are blessed to have Eli as our QB
Marty in Albany : 12:15 pm : link : reply
My only complaint, albeit a small one, is that he runs like a girl.

slides like a girl....

In comment 13554833 FatMan in Charlotte said:

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that say stupid shit - you get it right here on BBI consistently. This viewpoint gets thrown out a lot around here: Quote: eli is a leader (and i'm a big fan too) GiantNatty : 9:06 am : link : reply but he's also kinda sucked for a few seasons now. he hasn't had any magic for going on five seasons. he has a lot fewer excuses this year - i'm hopeful he can still get it done. Statistically speaking, 2014 and 2015 were Eli's best/better years, yet people will say "Eli's kinda sucked for awhile now", not think to separate the team performance from that of Eli (but having no qualms to say the defense carried eli last year). If we can't expect supposed fans of the team to realize this, what hope do we have for others?

This is GiantNatty at his finest...he's like a broken clock...