Don't you love those comments? Happened to me this morning.
Short story ... texted a few notes from yesterday's camp report from Sy to a co-worker. Guy's a Giants fan, from Connecticut, former high school varsity head football coach. Knows the game, but says ridiculous things at times - the way we all field such comments from people who don't truly follow their alleged favorite team.
Anyhow, I am a huge Eli fan and while I love me some Simms, Eli is the greatest QB to wear blue, imo.
After texting a Sy blurb about the defense, this guy responds: We need it because Eli blows.
I text back mentioning the sketchy line, crap at TE, thin WRs and no run game to speak of last season.
He says: Never liked him. He throws a pick and then walks around with his head in his shoulder pads. He doesn't lead! Now his brother Peyton ... leader!!
I was in a rush to get out of the house so sent this: You couldn't be more incorrect about Eli's leadership.
His last input: He made 2 throws in 2 different Super Bowls to win those games. But overall in his career his body language speaks louder than those throws.
I shouldn't be so surprised. I know some on this site probably feel that way, despite a really accomplished career. But it's still unsettling to have someone you once thought had an ounce of football IQ, or more than a surface knowledge of the game, or this team (body language? Outweighing 2 Super Bowl rings AND MVPs?) say a future Hall of Famer "blows" and cite body language.
Amazed.
I will say Eli's own coaches, or at least GM, starting talking about his "back nine" and that he wasnt very good this past season... so i cant get on all the fans when our own management isn't exactly praising him.
I also dont buy his lack of weapons last year - he had perhaps the best WR in the sport.
But hopefully 2017 will be closer to 2014/2015 as far as his individual statistics go than 2016 was. The oline has certainly been a big reason for some of the recent issues, and time will tell whether that improves this year.
Finally, it was noted above that "#10 was the best player on the field" this past January. I assume that was meant to be qualified as "best GIANT player on the field" because obviously Rodgers was the best player on the field that day.
bahahahahaha
That would be a weapon. Singular. Not weapons. Plural.
And if you have just ONE, maybe a little tougher for that one to get open as often?
Link - ( New Window )
The day he isn't the starting QB of the Giants will be a very dark day.
For those who forgot, he did lead a team that won 11 games and beat the Cowboys twice. He was also one of the few guys who showed up in Green Bay and was ready to play.
Jesus, you'd think the guy was quarterbacking a 5 win team.
I have no problem with him throwing some picks because he's never been a stat guy and always gives his guys chances to make plays (its a crime that these halftime heaves that he throws up are used against against him).
Like Parcells said about Simms - you're gonna miss this guy when he's gone. Not sure I wouldn't sign for another 11 win season in which Eli plays "bad." However, because he has some more weapons this year - Sky's the limit for #10.
I'm sure this coach, who puts way too much stock on body language is a great leader himself...bleh.
Only a rookie Shepard and a rookie Perkins were somewhat capable at any point last season besides Beckham.
Statistically 2016 wasnt even that bad for Manning. The problem was more in and around the pocket/bailing out too early due to a below average OL.
2016 wasnt a great year for Manning but definitely wasnt bad.
+1. I didn't want to overwhelm the reader with stats in my above post. But he was very good especially considering the supporting cast. Even if you eliminate the "reasons" why the offense sputtered, Eli exceeded career benchmarks and finished the season as one of his top 4 of his career.
Dorgan - I know. You're absolutely right. I went back and read some of the posts. It just gets very frustrating hearing this sometimes. You get the feeling that some of these people don't watch the games but just see highlights and listen to the talking-heads.
Some of these fans should go back to the days of 1970s when the QB competition was Jerry Goldstein/Randy Dean/Joe Pisarczk and maybe they would see what bad QBing was really like (or even look crosstown to what's going on with the Green team).
Kind of sucked?
Do you guys watch other qbs play football? Define "kind of sucked?"
Actually don't. I don't care.
he accepts accountability, doesn't show up his teammates and keeps a calm/poised disposition which are traits of good leaders.
he’s not a leader comes more from the older Giants fans I talk to in person who are still obsessed with Phil Simms
Yeah kinard, agreed. Everything is about that stupid stat sheet, passer rating and opinions given by people who barely/never watch any Giants games.
he’s not a leader comes more from the older Giants fans I talk to in person who are still obsessed with Phil Simms .
A lot of those obsessed with Phil Simms, would be complaining about him when he was playing. I remember my dad complaining the Simms held on to the ball to long and took to many sacks.
That's Franz Shubert, btw. He wrote lieders. I hate lieders.
For those who forgot, he did lead a team that won 11 games and beat the Cowboys twice. He was also one of the few guys who showed up in Green Bay and was ready to play.
Jesus, you'd think the guy was quarterbacking a 5 win team.
I have no problem with him throwing some picks because he's never been a stat guy and always gives his guys chances to make plays (its a crime that these halftime heaves that he throws up are used against against him).
Like Parcells said about Simms - you're gonna miss this guy when he's gone. Not sure I wouldn't sign for another 11 win season in which Eli plays "bad." However, because he has some more weapons this year - Sky's the limit for #10.
You may not be alone, but you're wrong. If you're the QB of a bottom-seven scoring offense, and you're looking up at Jacksonville, outscoring the Niners by a single point, you didn't have a good year. You can throw numbers at me and say offensive line this and running game and not enough receivers, and all that would be true, but I think Eli would be the first to tell you he needed to be better to compensate for a lot of those things. Those are all fine arguments, don't get me wrong, but you can't say he had a good year. You might be able to say, "he did what he could with what he had." In addition, he was particularly inefficient in the redzone. Everyone shits on Blake Bortles but he was better in the red zone than Eli Manning.
You may not be alone, but you're wrong. If you're the QB of a bottom-seven scoring offense, and you're looking up at Jacksonville, outscoring the Niners by a single point, you didn't have a good year. You can throw numbers at me and say offensive line this and running game and not enough receivers, and all that would be true, but I think Eli would be the first to tell you he needed to be better to compensate for a lot of those things. Those are all fine arguments, don't get me wrong, but you can't say he had a good year. You might be able to say, "he did what he could with what he had." In addition, he was particularly inefficient in the redzone. Everyone shits on Blake Bortles but he was better in the red zone than Eli Manning.
I would agree with the notion that Eli did the best with what he had last year, but red zone numbers are influenced by the talent you have around you. And the RZ is where the Giants' offensive shortcomings came home to roost. No running game to speak of, no TE's to keep defenses honest, and a leaky OL. Double Odell, and what were Eli's options? If he has the same issues this year, then he's part of the problem.
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... 26 TDs and 15 INTs behind an awful offensive line, pedestrian running backs and with zero tight end presence all with a rookie head coach who ran a very conservative offense (oh and yes he played every single game...again).
For those who forgot, he did lead a team that won 11 games and beat the Cowboys twice. He was also one of the few guys who showed up in Green Bay and was ready to play.
Jesus, you'd think the guy was quarterbacking a 5 win team.
I have no problem with him throwing some picks because he's never been a stat guy and always gives his guys chances to make plays (its a crime that these halftime heaves that he throws up are used against against him).
Like Parcells said about Simms - you're gonna miss this guy when he's gone. Not sure I wouldn't sign for another 11 win season in which Eli plays "bad." However, because he has some more weapons this year - Sky's the limit for #10.
You may not be alone, but you're wrong. If you're the QB of a bottom-seven scoring offense, and you're looking up at Jacksonville, outscoring the Niners by a single point, you didn't have a good year. You can throw numbers at me and say offensive line this and running game and not enough receivers, and all that would be true, but I think Eli would be the first to tell you he needed to be better to compensate for a lot of those things. Those are all fine arguments, don't get me wrong, but you can't say he had a good year. You might be able to say, "he did what he could with what he had." In addition, he was particularly inefficient in the redzone. Everyone shits on Blake Bortles but he was better in the red zone than Eli Manning.
Giants were 26th in points scored in 2016. Won 11 Games. Chargers were 26th in points in 2015. Won 4 games. Funny going into the 2016 season I don't recall anyone saying that Phillip Rivers had a bad year. Yet the consensus seems to be that Eli Manning had a bad year in 2016. Why is that? Now you're "red zoning" me? The one place on the field where success is predicated on offense line play, a good tight end and a competent running game? There are 11 guys the offense my friend. Not one man is responsible for the success or failures of a team. A couple of guys break down and it sabotages the entire unit.
Do you know how many teams had more WINS than Giants in 2016? Four. If you're the QB of team that wins more games than 85%-90% of all the other teams in the NFL, I'd say that's a "good" year, wouldn't you? Wins - that's the stat that I care about.
Here are a few more fun facts.
Kurt Warner threw 22 picks that year - the only time in his career he threw over 20. He did so while throwing 36TDs at 8.8 yds p/a.
Eli has threw < 20 three times in his career and led the league each time. In each of those seasons, he never averaged more than 7.5 ypa - even while we most of us would consider those offenses as vertical passing schemes.
So while we all love to shit on Kurt Warner, and he's earned certainly earned a lot it, it's probably fair to say he's the more accomplished passers.
I like Eli. He's tough as nails; and, in spite of the dopey demeanor, I do think he's a leader. There's no taking away how well he played on those two runs. The NFC game vs. SF may be the most impressive performance I've seen from a QB under constant duress.
With that said, it's fair to criticize him. He's been up and down and wildly inconsistent game to game during regular seasons. He makes a ton of boneheaded plays you'd expect a seasoned vet to have grown out of by now.
Of course there were circumstances to consider (bad O-line and basically one weapon in OBJ), but Eli showed signs of his age and lack of patience, at least to me. I recall plenty of inaccurate downfield throws, looking too much at the pass rush and more willingness to give up on a play than make it work.
Big Eli-fan and cannot imagine this team without him, but them's the facts...
And the coach had no problem making it clear that the QB's play was a major part of those shortcomings in a way you rarely see from a HC about an entrenched QB.
The team itself, whether it be McAdoo or leaks (big and small), has made it fairly clear they didn't think Eli played well last season and, to some extent, is declining or increasingly too frustrating for some behind the scenes.
I guess people can continue to argue against even them if they want though.
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the coach recognized the offensive shortcomings and that the team's strength was the defense, so he coached beyond conservative on O.
And the coach had no problem making it clear that the QB's play was a major part of those shortcomings in a way you rarely see from a HC about an entrenched QB.
The team itself, whether it be McAdoo or leaks (big and small), has made it fairly clear they didn't think Eli played well last season and, to some extent, is declining or increasingly too frustrating for some behind the scenes.
I would say that the leaks have been going on for some time before Ben came on board. Going back to Jerry's comments about the "hang dog" look. I don't think Jerry has ever been on board with Eli. Certainly, he enjoys the glory of the superbowls, but Eli wasn't his pick. Jerry has never had the opportunity to have his QB. With Coughlin gone, Jerry now only has to manage the transition from Eli to be rid of the last holdover of the Accorsi era.
The author sees Eli as a perfect leader for the Giants due to his toughness, clutch play and that he makes everyone around him better.
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Our new HOF QB Kurt warner had 22 interceptions the year he won MVP.
Here are a few more fun facts.
Kurt Warner threw 22 picks that year - the only time in his career he threw over 20. He did so while throwing 36TDs at 8.8 yds p/a.
Eli has threw < 20 three times in his career and led the league each time. In each of those seasons, he never averaged more than 7.5 ypa - even while we most of us would consider those offenses as vertical passing schemes.
So while we all love to shit on Kurt Warner, and he's earned certainly earned a lot it, it's probably fair to say he's the more accomplished passers.
I like Eli. He's tough as nails; and, in spite of the dopey demeanor, I do think he's a leader. There's no taking away how well he played on those two runs. The NFC game vs. SF may be the most impressive performance I've seen from a QB under constant duress.
With that said, it's fair to criticize him. He's been up and down and wildly inconsistent game to game during regular seasons. He makes a ton of boneheaded plays you'd expect a seasoned vet to have grown out of by now.
No disagreement. I've heard people say that you can't be a great QB and throw 20 int's, but with KW and Drew Brees that is entirely the case.