I know this has been touched on before in other threads but I think it needs one of its own.
There were a couple of plays last night where Richburg was blown up and knocked back into the backfield. Needless to say the entire run gets disrupted. These plays looked eerily familiar to last year when the excuse was given that Richburg had a bad wrist. Well, he doesn't now and the same thing seems to be happening.
Now I know this is just the first exhibition game and I know I'm only talking about a couple of plays but is there a bigger problem here than just Flowers pass blocking and Jerry's run blocking.
What say you guys?
I know we weren't scheming last night and this problem could be handled better if we were doing game planning.
Do we play a lot of 3-4 defenses this year?
The Eagles are too, and that's a problem
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The Eagles are too, and that's a problem
But they play a 4-3 and that's a differnt challenge for the center.
Agree he's out of excuses.
Javon Hargrove isn't exactly a huge or accomplished NT either.
Josh Johnson needs to be gone. He is AWFUL. I feel pretty confident that if they flip-flop Johnson and Smith we score at LEAST one (if not more) TD. And with Eli and Beckham are in the game?
Do I wish Richburg was more Stout? Well, yeah. But after the points I just listed I'm not sure how much it will matter this year. I guess we will see. I think yeah he will get beat just like every other lineman but at the end of the day he is pretty good and I was overall pretty encouraged by what I saw from the 1st string OL last night.
He's about the same size as Rodney Hudson, Nick Martin, David Andrews, Jason Kelce, and Maurkice Pouncey, to name five. Some, like Alex Mack and Travis Frederick, are bigger than Richburg, but not by much.
Most of criticism of Richburg reminds me of the criticism of Shaun O'Hara (also the same size as Richburg), a three-time Pro-Bowler who anchored a rushing attack that produced two thousand-yard rushers.
If true, that sucks!!!
Mac ball may bode well for Halapio.
Then, if its to be outside zone runs, ala Falcons, you probably want those run to both sides, I assume the right can get it done but remains to be seen on left. The left side, assume two TE sets, it would be nice to see Engram/Flowers pull off some of that type of run blocking, in which case the center may only need to hit a DT from one side and only for a short moment, as the RG will hit the nose T - also from one side?
hard to tell from a radio broadcast if this was tried yet, or if it worked, the left TE may need to slide to hit a safety or LB.
Umm, OK.
Seemed to be plenty worthy to be a decent OL two years ago and then last year, he dealt with torn ligaments in his hand. I guess the rest of his strength atrophied too?
Because he was picked in the second round, some Giant fans want to hold onto the idea that he is going to be a pro bowler. Same thing happened with the DT Austin. People went on about how he hadn't played football in two years and you can't judge him blah blah.
Austin was a bust. Richburg is not a bust. He has been mediocre. Not every high pick is going to develop. But Richburg still has a year to show that he was worth a #2. So, let's see what happens instead of making pronouncements about how he sucks or about how he is the next Shaun O'Hara.
'draft guards and centers high' or 'go with additional talent at receiver etc'.
possibly a change in the types of run schemes and therefore play actions will make it a moot choice,
but for 'mac type ball', we - looking to have the same G-C-G trio, may have possibly similar results in the run game and therefor play action as well.
Giant fans want to "hold onto the idea" he's going to be good? For fuck's sake - they only have to look back to 2015.
Given the way the Giants have been riddled with injuries this decade, you'd think people would understand the impact they have, yet they conveniently ignore a center having torn ligaments in his hand? I don't know why, but that ignorance is often showed when discussing Richburg.
He's serviceable, but not the superstar people here think he is/should be.
How that relates to Marvin Austin, I have no idea.
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Because he was picked in the second round, some Giant fans want to hold onto the idea that he is going to be a pro
bowler
Giant fans want to "hold onto the idea" he's going to be good? For fuck's sake - they only have to look back to 2015.
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In 2015, Richburg was returned to his natural position of center, and with a year of NFL experience under his belt, he soon showed himself to be among the league's best centers; Pro Football Focus ranked him as the NFL's #2 center for the 2015 season.
Given the way the Giants have been riddled with injuries this decade, you'd think people would understand the impact they have, yet they conveniently ignore a center having torn ligaments in his hand? I don't know why, but that ignorance is often showed when discussing Richburg.
I'm not talking about last year, I'm talking about last night. Are you trying to say he still dealing with the torn ligaments from last year? That's some friggin injury.
The question was, is he going to be a problem getting knocked back into the backfield on running plays like he did last night. I'm open to people telling me there's no cause for concern there and why. I'm not trying to create a whipping boy. It's a legitimate question regarding the center and our ability to run between the tackles.
And yeah, it was some frigging injury.
And yeah, it was some frigging injury.
So if the first preseason game is indicative of nothing why are we watching? C'mob, get a grip. I'm not saying the guy sucks, I was asking if he is going to continue to have a problem with nose tackles that line up over his head. It's a legitimate question. The consensus is yes. You don't have to opt in.
Even when coughlin was here, O'Hara had roller skates on against bigger guys too.
The Giants line actually does a pretty good job of pass blocking. I have no clue what the comment about the "new league" is or the idea that the TC era was years ago.
You keep talking about "mac ball" as if the team isn't constructed to play his way. He's not looking to establish a power running game - he wants OL that can pull, get out in space and are agile.
and, in this case, it may be replaced by -the types of plays- where the C being pushed back hurts you a lot more % wise than in TC ball, even with the same overall number of push backs.
Mac ball is drop back vanilla pass protection without a run threat and 'pass as run' more like packers.
when it works we do have the receivers...but....
He tore multiple ligaments in has hand in the second preseason game, not even one year ago. He did not have surgery until the offseason, which was not until after January of this year. So if he had the surgery in say, February, to repair multiple torn ligaments in his snapping hand... you don't think he is having any lingering effects now 6 months after surgery? And when would he have been cleared for lifting "normally" again maybe April? We don't even know if he is back to full strength yet, let alone getting stronger.
It's the 1st preseason game, Against a tough 3-4 DL. A few months removed from significant surgery. Without Eli and OBj. I'm not going to be down on Richburg yet. It just doesn't make sense.
They don't use vanilla pass protection and they have a lot of plays where the linemen need to get in space, whether it be the run design or screens.
In fact, the Packers consistently have one of the smaller lines in the NFL. Last year, at an average of 312 pounds, they were the 25th lightest line in the league. At an average of 6'4", they were tied with many teams as the smallest OL in the league
1. they do better at it ('holdem up' when the do need to)
2. they have a great move and pass type QB to cover any lines ills, which is not our thing
Clearly I dont watch the packers, but that is what they do, no? get low and lift from pads, when the do need to 'just holdem up'?
Above, Richburg is compared to Marvin Austin as a bust, when just two years ago a healthy Richburg was looked at as a top center.
Not sure how now the common thought is that he's easily pushed around and is a liability.
"hands outside method"
as opposed to hammering at the core
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But if it was 'some friggin injury' was this guy able to lift over the off-season? If not, maybe that's part of his problem regarding strength at the point of attack.
He tore multiple ligaments in has hand in the second preseason game, not even one year ago. He did not have surgery until the offseason, which was not until after January of this year. So if he had the surgery in say, February, to repair multiple torn ligaments in his snapping hand... you don't think he is having any lingering effects now 6 months after surgery? And when would he have been cleared for lifting "normally" again maybe April? We don't even know if he is back to full strength yet, let alone getting stronger.
It's the 1st preseason game, Against a tough 3-4 DL. A few months removed from significant surgery. Without Eli and OBj. I'm not going to be down on Richburg yet. It just doesn't make sense.
Thanks, makes sense!
Well the schedule won't be easy for him and its size mismatches. They will play many teams that are 3-4 or hybrids like them. But when they're not, he's getting matched up versus very good players.
Week 1 - Dallas
Week 2 - Detroit
Week 3 - Philadelphia (so he'll face Jernigan and/or Cox)
Week 4 - Tampa Bay (4-3 defense but faces 2nd team All Pro Gerald McCoy and 330-lb Chris Baker)
Week 5 - San Diego (3-4 front)
Week 6 - Broncos (not a traditional 3-4 and moves Miller around)
Week 7 - Seattle (play a 4-3 Under defense)
Week 8 - LA Rams (now coached by Wade Phillips, variation of a 3-4)
Week 9 - San Francisco (runs a big front with Armstead, Buckner, and new man Solomon Thomas)
Week 10 - Kansas City - (3-4, NT is former Eagle Bennie Logan)
Week 11 - Washington (3-4, NT is now listed as Stacy McGee)
Week 12 - Oakland
Week 13 - Dallas
Week 14 - Philadelphia
Week 15 - Arizona - (3-4 front)
Week 16 - Washington
get bulldozed like he was on roller skates .
Hand injuries suck for a center especially with snapping
and coming back with a hand injury look no further than
JPP ! Maybe and hopefully he just didn't get his feet
planted quickly enough but I am not buying into a hand injury when your light in the pants and getting pushed around . We better be able to convert short yardage and
close out games on offense unlike last year can't rely on
the defense to close out every game .
I know we weren't scheming last night and this problem could be handled better if we were doing game planning.
Do we play a lot of 3-4 defenses this year?
In comment 13557821 wonderback said:
I know we weren't scheming last night and this problem could be handled better if we were doing game planning.
Do we play a lot of 3-4 defenses this year?
In comment 13558005 Vanzetti said:
Because he was picked in the second round, some Giant fans want to hold onto the idea that he is going to be a pro bowler. Same thing happened with the DT Austin. People went on about how he hadn't played football in two years and you can't judge him blah blah.
Austin was a bust. Richburg is not a bust. He has been mediocre. Not every high pick is going to develop. But Richburg still has a year to show that he was worth a #2. So, let's see what happens instead of making pronouncements about how he sucks or about how he is the next Shaun O'Hara.
The strength thing really bothers me. Getting pushed back into the QB is really unacceptable.
Even Pugh is not lighting the world on fire. He may be the best OL draft pick we have had in a while but that is not saying much.
Both Jones and Halapio seemed to do a better job of anchoring than Richburg did. Maybe it was just the talent they were facing, or maybe Richburg isn't all the way back yet from his injury. Hoping he gets all the way back though, because we can't have him driven back, collapsing the pocket 10-12 times a game or more.
And Jerry was disappointing last night as well. Flowers and Hart had their best combined game I've seen so far, only to have things ruined by Richburg and Jerry.
Again with the Richburg is smallish, not big enough, blah blah blah.
Here's what I posted in another Richburg thread: Richburg is 6'4", 300. Average starting C is 6'4, 306.