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How much better (or worse) do you think the Giants are?

Eric from BBI : Admin : 9/4/2017 4:48 pm
In comparison with last year?

I think they are much better on both sides of the ball, but I'm curious to see what other fans think.
Much better and deeper roster 1-53  
nygfaninorlando : 9/4/2017 4:53 pm : link
However, the regular season record might not reflect this. Assuming good health (knock on wood), I envision a10-6 record. Schedule on paper is more difficult especially with all the west coast trips and when they play other teams coming off their byes. I expect a playoff win or 2 and if things break their way, as well as the playoff matchups, there's enough talent on this roster to make it to the Super Bowl.
I'm with you Etic.  
18E : 9/4/2017 4:54 pm : link
Highly optimistic. With the usual injury caveat....I think we go to the dance and win it.
I don't know that they're much improved  
pjcas18 : 9/4/2017 4:54 pm : link
on defense if you're comparing the D this year to before JPP was injured last year.

Lost Hankins added Thompson and Tomlinson.

Otherwise D is pretty much the same, 4th CB (Cockrell? Hunter?) can be Achilles heel, but that's probably the case with most teams. A lot rides on Bromley and Tomlinson replacing Hankins.

Offense is much improved on paper with the additions of Engram, Ellison and Marshall, but is it enough to offset a still poor OL? Or will the OL improve? I like that they have a FB this year too.
Eric...  
18E : 9/4/2017 4:54 pm : link
Dan phone!
B  
thomasa510 : 9/4/2017 4:55 pm : link
Much better on offense about the same on defense. Given the quality of the defense last year this is a good thing.

Injuries, the offensive line, Eli, and fate will decide how the season ends up.
Last year the Giants didn't get any serious injuries  
JohnB : 9/4/2017 4:55 pm : link
And that played a huge role in their success.

If that can be repeated, I think the NFC East Crown is there for the taking.
Team is a bit better  
ChicagoMarty : 9/4/2017 5:02 pm : link
Schedule is worse.

TE position has gone from a weakness to a strength

Marshall in place of Cruz is a big improvement

Backup Qb looks a bit better

OL is a ?

Darian Thompson at FS has to be an improvement
Goodson in place of Kelvin Shepard is a plus
Backup CB looks better

Pk looks like he could make a tackle if needed
Paradox:  
81_Great_Dane : 9/4/2017 5:02 pm : link
The more really good players you have, the greater the chance that an injury takes out a really good player.

If there aren't major injuries, the defense appears slightly improved, while the offense is more versatile.

I think they're significantly improved but their record may not reflect that. They could be "better" in theory but still be 10-6. But 12-4 isn't out of the question if a lot of things break right.
better on paper.....  
BillKo : 9/4/2017 5:03 pm : link
esp offensively, a more well rounded team that will allow them to play out of different formations.

defensively, about the same - which would be just fine.

We'll see how it translates based on the schedule, and breaks.
Better, but not enough that it'll show up in the W/L record, given how  
Devon : 9/4/2017 5:03 pm : link
brutal their schedule is. Even the travel sucks.

They're still not likely going to be able to run the ball and they don't have a passing game that can likely cover entirely for it thanks to the OL and where the QB is at this stage in his career. The defense should be similar to last year (assuming health), but even if they are, winning as many low scoring, close/late games isn't likely repeatable either.

11-5 down to 9-7 or 10-6 may seem like a step back, but it won't really be at all and that's where I see them right now.
Running game has not really improved  
Earl the goat : 9/4/2017 5:07 pm : link
I thought a difference maker at RB should've been prioritized in the second or third round
Kamara. Foreman etc Not a huge fan of Gallman or Perkins
Obvious upgrades at...  
BillT : 9/4/2017 5:09 pm : link
RB, WR, TE. Marshall, Ellison, Engram and 2nd year Shepard and Perkins are not only upgrades but upgrades of some of the least effective players on last year's team. It's a big jump in talent. On D Goodson is very promising and Bromley and Thomas seem more than adequate replacements for Hankins. Thompson and Adams are an upgrade from just Adams.

It's a team that isn't just better overall but has talent and depth that compare to the best teams in the league.
I feel  
Bluesbreaker : 9/4/2017 5:09 pm : link
that the defense should be slightly better providing we stay healthy with getting Thompson back he should help the back end but he really has not been tested and he must stay on the field and show he is capable of preventing deep pass plays and live up to his billing as a ball hawk I do think that he may not be the best tackler as far as big hits goes but need to keep an eye on him . I really like Goodson and he did show some pass rush blitzing capability he is an upgrade and my guy for most improved player . We lost Hankins but I think we will be ok there .
Apple needs to develop more and stay on the field I expect better play out of the 10th pick of the draft not 100% sold on him and he has to stop grabbing jerseys or he is gonna cost us . Lastly the pass rush we really didn't do anything to improve that and we saw what happened when JPP went down . So guys like Okawara and Wynn need to step it up .
On offense we added a few nice pieces Ellison who not only is a very good blocker but he not bad in the passing game
Brandon Marshall a great pickup if he can be Plex part two lookout with a healthy OBJ fingers crossed on him right now . Marshal is getting up there if he stays healthy its a huge upgrade . Sheppard should also improve with a year under his belt , Wild card is Evan Engram if he begins to flourish our passing game can be scary .
I like Perkins the rest of the stable is OK but really not a star in the bunch . It all remains to be seen the biggest disappointment to me is standing pat with thith
last years starters . Questions at almost every position
we shall see how they pan out . Not much in the way of depth either . I think we can get to 10=6 and win the division to me it's a must this season to win the tittle
it will be a tough row to hoe but if we stay healthy and the line improves a few ticks better all around we will see Brady and the boys once again !
...  
BleedBlue : 9/4/2017 5:09 pm : link
100% improved. improved depth in secondary, improved depth in DL rotation especially at DT with tomlinson and bromley showing promise. improved at TE in a BIG way. RB is the same altho look for darkwa to make more of an impact. and by the looks of it we upgraded at MLB
Better team than 2017.  
The_Boss : 9/4/2017 5:10 pm : link
However I think the schedule is the equalizer. They probably win 10. Is that good for a 3 seed, 4 seed, 5 seed or 6?
RE: Better team than 2017.  
The_Boss : 9/4/2017 5:11 pm : link
In comment 13583800 The_Boss said:
Quote:
However I think the schedule is the equalizer. They probably win 10. Is that good for a 3 seed, 4 seed, 5 seed or 6?


2016
Much better at TE  
djm : 9/4/2017 5:13 pm : link
I'm not ready to put Brandon Marshall in rarified air or proclaim him as some kind of panacea but he should be an upgrade over Cruz and randle before him.

Vereen playing in 13 games would help the offense. Flowers and Hart getting just slightly better would too.

The D is probably getting over looked as far as improving on last year, maybe not around here but nationally, but it really should be a pretty special unit this season.

Injuries will occur. Hopefully no clusters. But the Giants are a pretty nasty group. I'd think they pose a lot of problems for their opponents in 2017.

Biggest improvement is at TE. It's gonna resemble the DL growth from 2015 into 2016. It's going to go from bad to great.
Much better  
AnnapolisMike : 9/4/2017 5:14 pm : link
Alot needed to break right for the Giants to get to 11 wins last year. I think this is a better team that if they remain injury free are easily a 10-12 win team. If everything breaks right...13 wins. The only bad thing about the schedule is they play 4 teams coming off bye weeks. I don't think the travel is that big a deal. Is the two additional hours of flight time between a Dallas game or SF game really going to make a difference?
Significantly improved overall.  
Red Dog : 9/4/2017 5:23 pm : link
Offense should be much improved due to the huge upgrade at TE, continuity and progress on the OL, having a real FB on the roster, and probably a little better overall at RB. The backup QB situation is meaningless.

Defense is about the same because D. Thompson was a starter at the beginning of last year. Goodson should be an upgrade at Mike, key word should. But the DT situation could take a step backwards, at least in the short term.

Special Teams depends mostly on how Rosas does because they didn't change much otherwise.
Skilled positions were upgraded  
short lease : 9/4/2017 5:23 pm : link
but, that OL is going to have to show me something. It is my biggest concern .... maybe my only concern.
Better, if healthy.  
CT Charlie : 9/4/2017 5:24 pm : link
I think our record will slip, but our chances in a playoff game will improve because, at their best, both the defense and offense are better than last year.
On paper, better on both sides  
ZogZerg : 9/4/2017 5:29 pm : link
On D, I think they have upgraded:

MLB
Free Safety

I think JPP is playing better now than he was at this time last year. Apple has a full year under his belt.
Eric, Good Question  
Trainmaster : 9/4/2017 5:32 pm : link
I'd say the additions and players returning from injury on offense and defense are each worth 1 additional win. However, the difficulty of the better opponents on the schedule, plus the West Coast travel are negatives. Right now, I think that cost the Giants at least one win.

That would say 12-4. However, the Giants were below average in injuries last year. I think 2017 will be an average year. That will cost another game.

I think 11-5 or maybe 12-4 if injuries stay below average.
RE: Better, but not enough that it'll show up in the W/L record, given how  
Klaatu : 9/4/2017 5:35 pm : link
In comment 13583786 Devon said:
Quote:
brutal their schedule is. Even the travel sucks.

They're still not likely going to be able to run the ball and they don't have a passing game that can likely cover entirely for it thanks to the OL and where the QB is at this stage in his career. The defense should be similar to last year (assuming health), but even if they are, winning as many low scoring, close/late games isn't likely repeatable either.

11-5 down to 9-7 or 10-6 may seem like a step back, but it won't really be at all and that's where I see them right now.


With the worst corps of TEs in the history of TEs...with a #2 WR and a #1 RB who both had huge forks sticking out of their backs...with no dependable 3rd down back and no FB...Eli still threw for over 4,000 yards, completing 63% of his passes. "[A]t this stage in his career" he'll be fine. He's got all kinds of new toys to play with...big toys, fast toys, versatile and dynamic toys. The O-Line is still, admittedly, a big question mark, but Eli's propensity for getting rid of the ball quickly, and the ability of guys like OBJ, Marshall, and Engram to get open just as quickly should serve to compensate for that, at least in part.

As for the running game, the idea was that if you couldn't make any significant upgrades on the O-Line - and they really couldn't this year - you compensate by adding TEs who can block effectively along with a true FB. Blocking along the perimeter by guys like Marshall and Engram should help, too.

I do agree that their schedule is brutal - I've said that since the day it was announced. We know this team can be physically tough. The challenge for them in light of the schedule is to be just as tough mentally. We'll see.
Much better  
WillVAB : 9/4/2017 5:35 pm : link
On offense. Should be slightly better on defense. Just need to stay healthy and they'll win the division regardless of the schedule.
.  
Danny Kanell : 9/4/2017 5:36 pm : link
I think they're better. Especially on offense. Much higher overall talent level at TE and WR. The RB position should also improve simply by subtraction of Jennings. On paper, the schedule is much tougher though.
The same as last year  
Tom from LI : 9/4/2017 5:48 pm : link
I personally think if the Defense is rocking.. I could see a much more conservative offense again with a focus on special teams.

I expect many many nail biters again this year.. right down to the wire in more games than I can probably handle.

RE: Team is a bit better  
Rjanyg : 9/4/2017 6:10 pm : link
In comment 13583781 ChicagoMarty said:
Quote:
Schedule is worse.

TE position has gone from a weakness to a strength

Marshall in place of Cruz is a big improvement

Backup Qb looks a bit better

OL is a ?

Darian Thompson at FS has to be an improvement
Goodson in place of Kelvin Shepard is a plus
Backup CB looks better

Pk looks like he could make a tackle if needed


This. 100% agree. Love the 2017 draft class. Starting Perkins from week 1 should be an improvement as well.
I believe overall they are better  
The 12th Man : 9/4/2017 6:34 pm : link
The question really is how does the locker room gel. They have the talent will they believe in each other to sell out for the team concept. Injuries are going to come and we like all others teams will be affected. I believe we have the talent to overcome more than we did last year. I believe we will be better and we will go further than we did last year in the playoffs. Go Blue!
The defense is much better  
ZGiants98 : 9/4/2017 6:35 pm : link
Year two of 10 of 11 starters playing together in Spags system.... I truly think we have a shot at having the best defense in the NFL. I expect steps forward from Eli Apple and BJ Goodson. It's a scary thought that Landon Collins might actually still be getting better as well. As always it will come down to health.

I think the offense is going to be slightly better but I'm not flying off the rails or anything. Eli has some more weapons but I don't trust the line is going to allow him to use them yet. If the line does take a step forward we will see a 2008 type hum through the regular season... (minus the ending).
Better  
Hereditaryemperor : 9/4/2017 6:46 pm : link
I like that we have a FB

I like the new TE. I like that Tye and Donnell are gone.

I don't see any reason why Dallas or Philly has a chance to win this division...Giants by 14 next week
I do think Darian Thompson  
ZGiants98 : 9/4/2017 6:46 pm : link
is overrated here. Thompson/Adams is likely a wash. I also think Hunter and Cockrell are underrated. They might be the best 4th and 5th CB in the NFL.
RE: I do think Darian Thompson  
Hereditaryemperor : 9/4/2017 6:55 pm : link
In comment 13583894 ZGiants98 said:
Quote:
is overrated here. Thompson/Adams is likely a wash. I also think Hunter and Cockrell are underrated. They might be the best 4th and 5th CB in the NFL.


The front four should (and will) do its bid
Not every roster spot on this team  
Hereditaryemperor : 9/4/2017 6:56 pm : link
will be perfection
.  
arcarsenal : 9/4/2017 6:58 pm : link
I think the team is better but the record will remain the same or even regress slightly (10-6)
I got us at 10-6 too  
ZGiants98 : 9/4/2017 7:02 pm : link
We won't get as lucky in the health department as we did last year.
The roster is clearly better on paper  
David B. : 9/4/2017 7:05 pm : link
But that's all we know. If they stay healthy at key positions, they should be better on offense, and as good on D. Maybe better if D. Thompson has an impact.

If they can have some balance and run for 100 yards a game, that would open everything up, and they could be a pretty dynamic, 30-40 point per game offense.
It will be interesting to see if Fluker plays more guard than Jerry  
GeofromNJ : 9/4/2017 7:06 pm : link
because the coaches think he's better and if Jones plays more center than Richburg because the coaches think he's better. If either or both occur, the Giants should be able to sustain drives. If they can do that, they should win games despite the travel and the schedule.
Better ... I am excited  
Steve in South Jersey : 9/4/2017 7:09 pm : link
TE is a huge upgrade in talent and depth

Marshall is a big upgrade at #2 WR. Not so easy to swing the defense to Beckham anymore.

This team seems healthier to start the season. Health as always is very important. They are off to a pretty good start.
We're a bit better  
Torrag : 9/4/2017 7:14 pm : link
WR has been upgraded with Marshall. I think we've covered our bases for losing Hankins but we may be a tick on the whole unit this season. We've got three high quality players at CB but awful depth behind them so that's the same as last year ie we'll be hurting if anyone gets injured. LB depth is crap but if healthy Goodson, Kennard, Casillas and Robinson(concussion) should be a functional unit. If Thompson is durable the starting S tandem will be improved. Engram has looked good in the pre season but that's a small sample, still I think TE may be a more dynamic position for us with him even with rookie growing pains.

Bottomline is we may be a slightly improved roster over last year. However, when you factor in the NFL's toughest schedule with an unfair preparation bias given to our opponents and a brutal travel schedule we'll be fortunate to win the same 11 games we won last season and maybe even fewer.

The good news is Dallas has gotten worse including a key FA loss and a retirement on their vaunted OL. Defensive defections, injuries and suspensions will have them scrambling to stop opponents.

Taking all into account I believe we'll need to win the NFC East to earn a playoff bertrh and that should be feasible.
Better..  
Sean : 9/4/2017 7:20 pm : link
but possibly a worse record. Last years 11-5 was extremely close to being 8-8. Ravens, Bengals, both Dallas games, & first Philly game. I think we are better, but maybe 9/10 wins.
The defense is as good or better  
Gman11 : 9/4/2017 7:23 pm : link
and they were awesome last year.

The offense will be marginally better. Sorry, but I don't think Marshall adds a whole lot. I don't think the running game will be much better except maybe they'll convert more 3 and short situations. If they do that they'll sustain more drives and that helps the defense even more.

I haven't been this optimistic about a Giants team going into the season in a long time.
RE: Not every roster spot on this team  
BigBlueShock : 9/4/2017 7:28 pm : link
In comment 13583903 Hereditaryemperor said:
Quote:
will be perfection

The team should hire you. You're always full of invigorating information.
Marshall  
pjcas18 : 9/4/2017 7:31 pm : link
even if he's only a red zone threat, adds a lot. He doesn't need to get separation like Cruz did because he's 4 or 5 inches taller than Cruz.

Giants seemed to stall in the red zone habitually last year.

and with garbage at QB last year Marshall outpaced Cruz by a lot as the #2 WR.

Even if Marshall duplicates his numbers from last year it's an improvement and that's not even factoring in Marshall's blocking.

I know he's old and I'm not expecting 2012 Brandon Marshall, but think people underestimate how much Cruz (or lack of a threat at the #2 WR) hurt the Giants last year.

Beckham, Marshall, and Shepard could potentially even surpass Nicks, Cruz, and Manningham as the best trio of Giants receivers off the top of my head. Add in Engram, and perhaps a healthy Vereen and the Giants can be hard to defend this year in the passing game - just hope they can run just enough to make the passing game more effective.
I have them in another thread at 14-2  
mpinmaine : 9/4/2017 7:48 pm : link
but I could also see the lack of a push on the O line putting them at 9 or 10 wins,,,it could be worse.
The D should really fuck with opponents game plans
Better personel means better execution  
GeorgeAdams33 : 9/4/2017 7:56 pm : link
1) Now everyone on the defense knows what the unit is capable of. They now know that they can trust each other out there on the field. The coaches know what they have in these guys. Apple, Thompson, Goodson, Hunter, Okawara, and Andrew Adams are no longer rookies.

2) Richburg and Pugh are best utilized pulling and trapping instead of straightline run blocking. We had to run between the tackles last year because of our weak perimeter blocking. With the TEs and FB on this current roster that should be another weakness turned into a strength.

3) Cruz and Tye along with a rookie Sterling Shepard did not do a great job of getting open last year. Eli can get rid of the ball very quickly IF someone is open. He continually had to hold onto the ball last year because nobody was open. With Marshall & Engram along with an experienced SS to go along with OBJ this should no longer be a problem. Eli will be getting rid of the ball quickly again.
I think the team is a little better  
stockton : 9/4/2017 8:04 pm : link
but I agree with the other posters that say it won't show up in the W/L. Or if it does it is only 1 game.

Winning 11+ games isn't easy in the NFL. So the Giants could win the same number of games but increase their point differential and fewer games going down to the wire.

That said, most every fan base thinks their team improved except for the 3-6 teams tanking for a top pick. So it isn't like this question tends to lead to a lot of useful answers.
Every year brings with it  
joeinpa : 9/4/2017 8:06 pm : link
Different challenges different scenarios. However at first glance Giants have the look of a contender. Not sure we felt that way at this time last year.
slightly better on defense,  
prdave73 : 9/4/2017 8:19 pm : link
Mostly likely the same on offense. Does bringing in more weapons help yes, but it doesn't matter if the Oline can't block or the play calling stinks. period.
Substantially  
AcidTest : 9/4/2017 8:24 pm : link
better. We upgraded at the skills positions on offense, and retained JPP. The problem is the OL, but another year of experience will hopefully help.
I would think everyone would feel the Giants got better....  
George from PA : 9/4/2017 8:28 pm : link
Our 2 weakest spot on defense last year, FS and MLB have been replaced with their best options.

OV played injured is now healthy and JPP seemed ready to dominate.

Another year in system should have everyone playing faster..and DT might have a step back but I do not expect any lesser play from the DT.

There is a risk having Eli a year older....but every other aspect of the offense improved. I for one will never vote against Eli when things matter most.

If we can stay as healthy as last year....I like our chances in the NFC
A team is more than the sum of its parts, so we tend to evaluate  
plato : 9/4/2017 8:49 pm : link
Changes in Individual talent and judge overall improvement. I'm afraid loss of Hankins may have greater overall effect than loss of a single DT might predict. On offense same 5 OL playing together again may be better than individuals. How well new TE's and FB contribute to total running and blocking improvement should be a plus but may take time to integrate given the decrease in practice time.

I have learned its very hard to predict the future, even in areas where I am very competent. I was surprised at 11/5 last year, I would be shocked if we got that close this season, but that's why they play the games.
RE: I don't know that they're much improved  
OntheRoad : 9/4/2017 8:58 pm : link
In comment 13583772 pjcas18 said:
Quote:
Lost Hankins added Thompson and Tomlinson.

Otherwise D is pretty much the same

Darian Thompson and BJ Goodson should both be noticeable upgrades. And you would think a year's experience individually and as a unit would be a plus for a young team.
RE: RE: I don't know that they're much improved  
pjcas18 : 9/4/2017 9:00 pm : link
In comment 13583993 OntheRoad said:
Quote:
In comment 13583772 pjcas18 said:


Quote:


Lost Hankins added Thompson and Tomlinson.

Otherwise D is pretty much the same



Darian Thompson and BJ Goodson should both be noticeable upgrades. And you would think a year's experience individually and as a unit would be a plus for a young team.


Thompson, until proven otherwise is a ?. I thought Andrew Adams looked pretty good, how much of a noticeable upgrade will Thompson be?

Agree on Goodson though. He could certainly upgrade Kelvin Sheppard.
Now that McAdoo  
PEEJ : 9/4/2017 9:03 pm : link
has actual TEs and a fullback, I think (and hope) we'll see a lot more of his playbook.
Likewise, by having the bulk of his defense back, Spags will be able to open his bag of tricks,

I'm very optimistic
Definitely better in a lot of spots  
Jimmy Googs : 9/4/2017 9:11 pm : link
but no so much on Oline, and that is where we were the weakest last year so you do the math...
Time of possession  
go-big-blue : 9/4/2017 9:57 pm : link
T.O.P. could be the key to increased success. If they can simply sustain a few longer drives during a game, and improve conversion to points slightly from last year, the defense will be on the field less and perhaps improve statistically because of that. If the opposition is under more pressure to score that works in the Giants D favor.
As I've said a thousand times, the talent at the skill positions  
shockeyisthebest8056 : 9/4/2017 9:59 pm : link
was as big a problem as the offensive line. 3 of the Giants' top 7 (non-QB) skill position players in snaps played last season are now unemployed and a 4th, Will Tye, went from starter to the waiver wire. That improvement will clearly make a difference. With the defense, our offense doesn't have to be great, but they do need to score more points, extend drives with more first downs, and be better in the red zone. The offensive line is still the biggest issue on the team, but there's no reason there shouldn't be real improvement on the offense.
same to slightly better in a few positions  
micky : 9/4/2017 10:00 pm : link
last season got lucky with health. That could be a factor this year.

improvement in wr's. Marshall for cruz. te's slightly better with ellison for tye. Engram is a unknown til actually games, looks promising though.

loss of Hankins (good chemistry with snacks) may or may not be a factor til game time. If Bromley actually does show something this season as rotation player..then not a factor losing Hanks as much imo

cb depth may be slightly better..have to see.

RB are same or a drop off a bit imo

Eli another year older..if he just managed games and limited his mistakes then he'll get them to where they want to be. still lost a touch on ball and has to be aware he's not what he used to be in that aspect.Stay healthy is my concern with breakdowns on ol..hits this stage may not bounce up like past.


The roster is much better but injury luck is always an equalizer  
Eric on Li : 9/4/2017 10:02 pm : link
assuming similarly great health luck to last year if this isn't 12+ win team I don't know what is. It's always possible individual players regress but every unit is stronger than it was last year.
We're going to find out  
UberAlias : 9/4/2017 10:02 pm : link
Soon enough.
RE: same to slightly better in a few positions  
arcarsenal : 9/4/2017 10:03 pm : link
In comment 13584056 micky said:
Quote:
last season got lucky with health. That could be a factor this year.

improvement in wr's. Marshall for cruz. te's slightly better with ellison for tye. Engram is a unknown til actually games, looks promising though.

loss of Hankins (good chemistry with snacks) may or may not be a factor til game time. If Bromley actually does show something this season as rotation player..then not a factor losing Hanks as much imo

cb depth may be slightly better..have to see.

RB are same or a drop off a bit imo

Eli another year older..if he just managed games and limited his mistakes then he'll get them to where they want to be. still lost a touch on ball and has to be aware he's not what he used to be in that aspect.Stay healthy is my concern with breakdowns on ol..hits this stage may not bounce up like past.



How could there be a dropoff among the RB's? All we lost is Jennings who was awful last year and had zero interest from any other team. Vereen is healthy, Perkins has a year under his belt, and we drafted Gallman.

Not sure how any type of logic would call for a decline.
RE: RE: same to slightly better in a few positions  
micky : 9/4/2017 10:17 pm : link
In comment 13584061 arcarsenal said:
Quote:
In comment 13584056 micky said:


Quote:


last season got lucky with health. That could be a factor this year.

improvement in wr's. Marshall for cruz. te's slightly better with ellison for tye. Engram is a unknown til actually games, looks promising though.

loss of Hankins (good chemistry with snacks) may or may not be a factor til game time. If Bromley actually does show something this season as rotation player..then not a factor losing Hanks as much imo

cb depth may be slightly better..have to see.

RB are same or a drop off a bit imo

Eli another year older..if he just managed games and limited his mistakes then he'll get them to where they want to be. still lost a touch on ball and has to be aware he's not what he used to be in that aspect.Stay healthy is my concern with breakdowns on ol..hits this stage may not bounce up like past.





How could there be a dropoff among the RB's? All we lost is Jennings who was awful last year and had zero interest from any other team. Vereen is healthy, Perkins has a year under his belt, and we drafted Gallman.

Not sure how any type of logic would call for a decline.


your banking a lot on Vereen being healthy as yet to be shown. gallman unknown. Perkins needs to take it on his dhoulders and improvement. drop off yeah maybe not but same..yes. if Vereen and gsellman contribute ..then I'll say improved..have to see
Except that Vereen IS healthy, unless you know something we don't.  
Klaatu : 9/4/2017 10:21 pm : link
Jennings was awful last year. That's why he's not on a team this year. Perkins, Gallman, and yes, even Darkwa are massive improvements.
.  
arcarsenal : 9/4/2017 10:23 pm : link
Vereen had a torn bicep - it's not really an injury that requires him to re-establish himself. It wasn't a knee injury. Unless he re-injures himself, he's going to be an important part of this offense just like he was in 2015 when he caught about 60 balls.
Well,  
Doomster : 9/4/2017 10:41 pm : link
The OL is the same....the OL coach is the same....will better blocking TE's and a FB, make a difference in the passing and running game?

Does Marshall still have it?

Is OBj's ankle going to be a problem?

Are we putting too much pressure on Double E to produce right away? But I don't think Eli will hesitate to throw to him, even if he is a rookie...

We do not have a real veteran presence as a bell cow.....Perkins is the chosen one.....Gallman is a rookie that may or may not show dividends as the season progresses....how can you have confidence in Darkwa with his track record? Vereen is a third down back, not a bell cow...

But, it really all comes down to Eli....with a more imaginative offense, and hopefully healthy weapons, I believe Eli is ready for a special year, stat wise....

Defensively, we lost Hankins.....Bromley is hurt, and Thomas has not had more than 5 tackles in a season...add the rookie Tomlinson, and you have an area opposing teams will try to exploit...

Our LB'ers are average at best......none of them is a true blitzer....can Goodson be effective in the middle? Our three corners and SS are top shelf! This is basically Thompson's rookie season again....can he stay out there? He has the advantage of knowing this defense and should not be lost out there......

So is this a better team? On paper yes....I disagree that we are any stronger with our subs....key to this season is our starters staying on the field, and if injured, just for a short period of time....

Wing was ok last season, and I was impressed on how he handled a lot of bad snaps on fg attempts in preseason.....Rosas is a rookie.....preseason is one thing.....but the real season is when it counts, so he is an unknown in that respect.....

I think the defense will play the same, and the offense will be better...even with tougher schedule and west coast games.......

I expect this team to win the Division, and get a first round bye....
Can ya FEEL it??  
x meadowlander : 9/4/2017 10:49 pm : link
C'mon - yeah, the entire team is improved, how much?

So much, that it's back - confidence. Been gone for FIVE long years, 5 years of Eli playing scared, Swiss cheese o-lines, historically awful injury counts, inconsistency abound.

Last year, the GIANT D returned and this preseason we saw genuine flashes.

How much better? 12+ win territory, IMO.

That defense was and IS the real thing, JPP, Collins, Harrison - pro bowlers all over the field on D and we finally have a solid MLB.

12+.

This team can go all the way.
The Force is strong with this team. I predict 12-4  
32_Razor : 9/4/2017 10:58 pm : link
record.
Super Bowl contender.  
Boy Cord : 9/5/2017 12:15 am : link
TE biggest upgrade. JPP and OV rave reviews in preseason. Top 5 at WR, DB, DL, if not top 2. Team is more physical on offense. Can Landon Collins progress even more? If so, DPOY. Brandon Marshall >>> WR2 past two years. Hart showed improvement in preseason. I'm feelin great.
On paper, they're much better  
PHX Giants Fan : 9/5/2017 12:17 am : link
Jerry / front office did a nice job of improving most units, especially WR, TE and LB, and moving on from the right (or wrong) players. It's very telling that few, if any, released players have jobs today.

This team is deep on both sides and could withstand inevitable injuries. OL and RB still are question marks. Can Flowers and Perkins step up? If both are at least serviceable we should go far this year.
Better,  
Go Terps : 9/5/2017 1:53 am : link
but the schedule is worse and I wouldn't count on the same good health. If they have another healthy year I would, in their shoes, invest some time and money into a top to bottom look at what was done differently in these two years than those prior. It can't just be Wellman... If it is, he deserves to be one of the highest paid people associated with the team.

I predict 9-7, but slanting better. 11-5/12-4 is definitely possible.
RE: RE: Not every roster spot on this team  
Hereditaryemperor : 9/5/2017 2:04 am : link
In comment 13583940 BigBlueShock said:
Quote:
In comment 13583903 Hereditaryemperor said:


Quote:


will be perfection


The team should hire you. You're always full of invigorating information.


This sarcastic? I agreed with you on the other thread man. Great minds think alike.
First  
Dragon : 9/5/2017 5:01 am : link
Six games will tell the story did we really improve or just sugar cote many prior faults.

Question 1, will the JPP we saw in the preseason last for the whole season.

Question 2, JPP looked great but Vernon is still not making enough impact plays.

Question 3, Is the secondary as good as it appeared to be during the preseason?

Question 4, we signed a blocking TE, drafted a receiving TE then kept a blocking FB not sure who is going to prove more valuable to this offense.

Question 5, can this offense led by Eli turn the switch on or are we still a wet powder keg on offense for long stretches of games.

Question 6, will this team go into Dallas and destroy what should be a truly inferior opponent even without OBJ?

Question 7, can they perform question number 6 and then not fall asleep at the wheel in week 2 against the Lions?

Question 8, the Giants should be the best team in the NFC East now can they prove that to themselves and everyone else?
Better !  
Fred-in-Florida : 9/5/2017 6:10 am : link
The offense has improved.

TE which was a major weakness last year looks to be a strength this year. This is tied into poor OL play. Additional blocking with Ellison and Engram, and from the FB position (Smith) should help the run game. The receiving of Engram will/should help open things up in the middle of the field.

Marshall should be an improvement over Cruz, but he's not getting any younger. The expectation for Cruz was great but so is the expectation for Marshall. Was last year an indication that he's in decline or was it injuries and poor QB play the reason for lower numbers.

A healthy Vereen will add a dimension that wasn't there last year. Will Perkins grow to be that 3rd down back.

The OL is still a weekness. I'm more concerned about Richburg than I am Flowers and Hart. He was pushed back too much during preseason. Hopefully with the addition of blocking TE and Fullback the 2 'bookends' will get some help. Jerry, well nothing to say there.

The defense is still one of the better ones in the league (They're my FF defense show they'd better be). I think they can be even better. Adams has a year of experience and Thompson is back from injury, improving that safety position. Goodson looks to be an upgrade in the middle. At this juncture Robinson's concussion is concerning. Tomlinson and Bromley will more that make up for the loss of Hankins.

The schedule is tough and seems there are a lot of games where we're playing teams coming of bye's.

I agree much better on both sides  
Matt M. : 9/5/2017 6:42 am : link
But because of their schedule and their OL, I don't think much better record wise. Maybe another 11 win season, which is dependent on how many of thone 11 come in their division and how well Dallas does to determine who wins the division.
Only better on offense if  
gmenatlarge : 9/5/2017 9:04 am : link
they open things up more and vary their formations a bit. If they run out of that same formation every freaking play it will negate some of the personnel improvements and we will be slogging through games again. Need to open this offense up and help out the D so we aren't sweating the ends of games like last year!!!
Night to day  
trueblueinpw : 9/5/2017 9:46 am : link
The offense was so bad last year! But just like the defense went from zero to hero last year with the infusion of playmakers at critical positions, this offense could - and should - have a similar transformation.

They might be "better"  
WideRight : 9/5/2017 9:46 am : link
But doing better than 11-5 isn't realistic.
Better team on paper  
JonC : 9/5/2017 9:59 am : link
We saw improvements in a number of areas of concern : Flowers, TE, MIKE, FS and overall depth. Another thing to consider is this is still a very young team, what will its critical mass for 2017 be by year's end. Not too hard to suggest there are reasons for optimism.

Problems figure to be the difficult schedule, can they run the football and protect Eli, can the team finish the close games as they did a year ago.
...  
SFGFNCGiantsFan : 9/5/2017 9:59 am : link
Better on offense with the additions of Marshall, Engram, & Ellison. The OL is the huge ? mark.

On defense, they're stacked.

So much comes down to health/when you're playing certain opponents.
Last season I thought  
geemanfan : 9/5/2017 10:34 am : link
We made enough changes on Defense to move them to the middle of the pack and they went top 5. This year I think the Offense made enough changes to get to middle of the pack but won't be surprised if the same thing happens. This also looks like an elite Defense, so we will be better.
How can they not be better of offense vs. 2016....  
Racer : 9/5/2017 10:50 am : link
...when Cruz, Donnell and Jennings were on the top of the depth chart in week 1?
if our O line plays at the same level they did last year  
Jersey55 : 9/5/2017 10:53 am : link
then I think we can expect the same results if we're as lucky as we were last season.
By position  
njm : 9/5/2017 10:53 am : link
QB - Same
RB - Same, maybe a little deeper
WR - Better but not a lot better
TE - MUCH better
OL - Same, the concern
DE - Better health so slightly better
DT - Same
LB - Same
CB - Same
S - Upgrade at FS, Collins is Collins
ST - Same


I think Hankins was a bigger loss than most.  
BrettNYG10 : 9/5/2017 10:59 am : link
I expect a comparable record, but feel better about the team's ability to win games in the playoffs.
In general, I think they're better on both sides of the ball.  
Beezer : 9/5/2017 11:02 am : link
One very important spot, though, where I have no idea - offensive line.

Not rocket science.

I'm hopeful that continuity will win the day and the line will come together as a solid unit.

One area I'm also not sure about - running back. Hard for me to gauge whether or not it's an upgrade, the same, or a small step back. At least they're younger, with potential.

I'm pretty optimistic about this team.
better  
idiotsavant : 9/5/2017 11:24 am : link
caveat, manning in preseason made some plays despite missed pass pro blocks by, for example, the RBs.

gotta get that sorted out. why I am fine with having a fullback also
I think that making the playoffs is only great  
Jersey55 : 9/5/2017 4:22 pm : link
if you go all the way and win the SB, other than that all it will do is give you a much lower pick in the draft.....
On defense, continuity is king  
adamg : 9/5/2017 4:30 pm : link
Plus the additions of Thompson and Goodson give us much more versatility as a unit, with a higher ceiling MLB and an alternative playmaker in the safety spot.

On offense, the additions of Marshall, Ellison, and Engram and the subtractions of Cruz and Jennings combined with the continuity on the OL with seemingly improved play on the edges, I expect a totally new and improved unit. Marshall's effect can't be overstated. That dude is going to be a huge lift both in the red zone and elsewhere if teams ignore him too frequently.
Better...  
Ed A. : 9/5/2017 5:36 pm : link
on Defense and much better on offense despite the OL. Only real loss on D is Hankins. Tomlinson will make us all forget Hank by the 4th or 5th game and Bromley and Thomas seem improved, The addition of Darian Thomas at FS is huge IMO.
On Offense, Marshall, Engram and Ellison are major upgrades. A year of experience will make Shepard an even greater weapon then last season. Lacosse (sp) will be an additional asset. Perkins should become much better with the year of experience. However, health is the joker in the deck. If injuries to key players are average, I am expecting a very successful year.
it will take some sort of fuck up  
Hereditaryemperor : 9/5/2017 6:29 pm : link
to make this team bad

they should beat Dallas and, especially the Eagles into the ground
RE: I think the team is a little better  
Rover : 9/5/2017 8:00 pm : link
In comment 13583961 stockton said:
Quote:
but I agree with the other posters that say it won't show up in the W/L. Or if it does it is only 1 game.

Winning 11+ games isn't easy in the NFL. So the Giants could win the same number of games but increase their point differential and fewer games going down to the wire.

That said, most every fan base thinks their team improved except for the 3-6 teams tanking for a top pick. So it isn't like this question tends to lead to a lot of useful answers.

Agreed, Giants are better, but so is their schedule.
Barring severe injuries or the unexpected development (positive or negative) I see them at the 9 to 11 win range.
Better  
Rolyrock : 9/5/2017 11:10 pm : link
The overall health of the team, especially on D. And JPP is looking dominant.
I was very encouraged by the  
gidiefor : Mod : 9/6/2017 8:25 am : link
way the first team offense woke up in game three of preseason without Beckham and Marshall playing -- Ellison, Engram, Smith and Perkins are all huge upgrades - Perkins showed that he just needs to get work to get in a rhythm in that game -- Flowers and Hart played in an improved fashion -- Fluker and this year's version of Jones are better backups for the Oline than we've had in a while - indeed both could be starters without the line going backwards.

The defense does not look to have missed a beat without Hankins. OV, JPP, Snacks and Collins all look like they're on a ballistic mission and the rest of the defense is feeding off of it.

Let's get on with the season --- GO GIANTS!!!!

I don't know that the'll be "much" better defensively -  
Section331 : 9/6/2017 9:23 am : link
I actually expect them to fall back a little - but they are significantly better on the other side of the ball. That said, I think they'll end up with the same record, but it should be enough to win the division.
if we can run the football with any consistency  
Jersey55 : 9/7/2017 10:59 am : link
this season then I think the sky is the limit but if we can't then it will be the same as last year and we will struggle for every point we get....
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