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How much better (or worse) do you think the Giants are?

Eric from BBI : Admin : 9/4/2017 4:48 pm
In comparison with last year?

I think they are much better on both sides of the ball, but I'm curious to see what other fans think.
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Much better and deeper roster 1-53  
nygfaninorlando : 9/4/2017 4:53 pm : link
However, the regular season record might not reflect this. Assuming good health (knock on wood), I envision a10-6 record. Schedule on paper is more difficult especially with all the west coast trips and when they play other teams coming off their byes. I expect a playoff win or 2 and if things break their way, as well as the playoff matchups, there's enough talent on this roster to make it to the Super Bowl.
I'm with you Etic.  
18E : 9/4/2017 4:54 pm : link
Highly optimistic. With the usual injury caveat....I think we go to the dance and win it.
I don't know that they're much improved  
pjcas18 : 9/4/2017 4:54 pm : link
on defense if you're comparing the D this year to before JPP was injured last year.

Lost Hankins added Thompson and Tomlinson.

Otherwise D is pretty much the same, 4th CB (Cockrell? Hunter?) can be Achilles heel, but that's probably the case with most teams. A lot rides on Bromley and Tomlinson replacing Hankins.

Offense is much improved on paper with the additions of Engram, Ellison and Marshall, but is it enough to offset a still poor OL? Or will the OL improve? I like that they have a FB this year too.
Eric...  
18E : 9/4/2017 4:54 pm : link
Dan phone!
B  
thomasa510 : 9/4/2017 4:55 pm : link
Much better on offense about the same on defense. Given the quality of the defense last year this is a good thing.

Injuries, the offensive line, Eli, and fate will decide how the season ends up.
Last year the Giants didn't get any serious injuries  
JohnB : 9/4/2017 4:55 pm : link
And that played a huge role in their success.

If that can be repeated, I think the NFC East Crown is there for the taking.
Team is a bit better  
ChicagoMarty : 9/4/2017 5:02 pm : link
Schedule is worse.

TE position has gone from a weakness to a strength

Marshall in place of Cruz is a big improvement

Backup Qb looks a bit better

OL is a ?

Darian Thompson at FS has to be an improvement
Goodson in place of Kelvin Shepard is a plus
Backup CB looks better

Pk looks like he could make a tackle if needed
Paradox:  
81_Great_Dane : 9/4/2017 5:02 pm : link
The more really good players you have, the greater the chance that an injury takes out a really good player.

If there aren't major injuries, the defense appears slightly improved, while the offense is more versatile.

I think they're significantly improved but their record may not reflect that. They could be "better" in theory but still be 10-6. But 12-4 isn't out of the question if a lot of things break right.
better on paper.....  
BillKo : 9/4/2017 5:03 pm : link
esp offensively, a more well rounded team that will allow them to play out of different formations.

defensively, about the same - which would be just fine.

We'll see how it translates based on the schedule, and breaks.
Better, but not enough that it'll show up in the W/L record, given how  
Devon : 9/4/2017 5:03 pm : link
brutal their schedule is. Even the travel sucks.

They're still not likely going to be able to run the ball and they don't have a passing game that can likely cover entirely for it thanks to the OL and where the QB is at this stage in his career. The defense should be similar to last year (assuming health), but even if they are, winning as many low scoring, close/late games isn't likely repeatable either.

11-5 down to 9-7 or 10-6 may seem like a step back, but it won't really be at all and that's where I see them right now.
Running game has not really improved  
Earl the goat : 9/4/2017 5:07 pm : link
I thought a difference maker at RB should've been prioritized in the second or third round
Kamara. Foreman etc Not a huge fan of Gallman or Perkins
Obvious upgrades at...  
BillT : 9/4/2017 5:09 pm : link
RB, WR, TE. Marshall, Ellison, Engram and 2nd year Shepard and Perkins are not only upgrades but upgrades of some of the least effective players on last year's team. It's a big jump in talent. On D Goodson is very promising and Bromley and Thomas seem more than adequate replacements for Hankins. Thompson and Adams are an upgrade from just Adams.

It's a team that isn't just better overall but has talent and depth that compare to the best teams in the league.
I feel  
Bluesbreaker : 9/4/2017 5:09 pm : link
that the defense should be slightly better providing we stay healthy with getting Thompson back he should help the back end but he really has not been tested and he must stay on the field and show he is capable of preventing deep pass plays and live up to his billing as a ball hawk I do think that he may not be the best tackler as far as big hits goes but need to keep an eye on him . I really like Goodson and he did show some pass rush blitzing capability he is an upgrade and my guy for most improved player . We lost Hankins but I think we will be ok there .
Apple needs to develop more and stay on the field I expect better play out of the 10th pick of the draft not 100% sold on him and he has to stop grabbing jerseys or he is gonna cost us . Lastly the pass rush we really didn't do anything to improve that and we saw what happened when JPP went down . So guys like Okawara and Wynn need to step it up .
On offense we added a few nice pieces Ellison who not only is a very good blocker but he not bad in the passing game
Brandon Marshall a great pickup if he can be Plex part two lookout with a healthy OBJ fingers crossed on him right now . Marshal is getting up there if he stays healthy its a huge upgrade . Sheppard should also improve with a year under his belt , Wild card is Evan Engram if he begins to flourish our passing game can be scary .
I like Perkins the rest of the stable is OK but really not a star in the bunch . It all remains to be seen the biggest disappointment to me is standing pat with thith
last years starters . Questions at almost every position
we shall see how they pan out . Not much in the way of depth either . I think we can get to 10=6 and win the division to me it's a must this season to win the tittle
it will be a tough row to hoe but if we stay healthy and the line improves a few ticks better all around we will see Brady and the boys once again !
...  
BleedBlue : 9/4/2017 5:09 pm : link
100% improved. improved depth in secondary, improved depth in DL rotation especially at DT with tomlinson and bromley showing promise. improved at TE in a BIG way. RB is the same altho look for darkwa to make more of an impact. and by the looks of it we upgraded at MLB
Better team than 2017.  
The_Boss : 9/4/2017 5:10 pm : link
However I think the schedule is the equalizer. They probably win 10. Is that good for a 3 seed, 4 seed, 5 seed or 6?
RE: Better team than 2017.  
The_Boss : 9/4/2017 5:11 pm : link
In comment 13583800 The_Boss said:
Quote:
However I think the schedule is the equalizer. They probably win 10. Is that good for a 3 seed, 4 seed, 5 seed or 6?


2016
Much better at TE  
djm : 9/4/2017 5:13 pm : link
I'm not ready to put Brandon Marshall in rarified air or proclaim him as some kind of panacea but he should be an upgrade over Cruz and randle before him.

Vereen playing in 13 games would help the offense. Flowers and Hart getting just slightly better would too.

The D is probably getting over looked as far as improving on last year, maybe not around here but nationally, but it really should be a pretty special unit this season.

Injuries will occur. Hopefully no clusters. But the Giants are a pretty nasty group. I'd think they pose a lot of problems for their opponents in 2017.

Biggest improvement is at TE. It's gonna resemble the DL growth from 2015 into 2016. It's going to go from bad to great.
Much better  
AnnapolisMike : 9/4/2017 5:14 pm : link
Alot needed to break right for the Giants to get to 11 wins last year. I think this is a better team that if they remain injury free are easily a 10-12 win team. If everything breaks right...13 wins. The only bad thing about the schedule is they play 4 teams coming off bye weeks. I don't think the travel is that big a deal. Is the two additional hours of flight time between a Dallas game or SF game really going to make a difference?
Significantly improved overall.  
Red Dog : 9/4/2017 5:23 pm : link
Offense should be much improved due to the huge upgrade at TE, continuity and progress on the OL, having a real FB on the roster, and probably a little better overall at RB. The backup QB situation is meaningless.

Defense is about the same because D. Thompson was a starter at the beginning of last year. Goodson should be an upgrade at Mike, key word should. But the DT situation could take a step backwards, at least in the short term.

Special Teams depends mostly on how Rosas does because they didn't change much otherwise.
Skilled positions were upgraded  
short lease : 9/4/2017 5:23 pm : link
but, that OL is going to have to show me something. It is my biggest concern .... maybe my only concern.
Better, if healthy.  
CT Charlie : 9/4/2017 5:24 pm : link
I think our record will slip, but our chances in a playoff game will improve because, at their best, both the defense and offense are better than last year.
On paper, better on both sides  
ZogZerg : 9/4/2017 5:29 pm : link
On D, I think they have upgraded:

MLB
Free Safety

I think JPP is playing better now than he was at this time last year. Apple has a full year under his belt.
Eric, Good Question  
Trainmaster : 9/4/2017 5:32 pm : link
I'd say the additions and players returning from injury on offense and defense are each worth 1 additional win. However, the difficulty of the better opponents on the schedule, plus the West Coast travel are negatives. Right now, I think that cost the Giants at least one win.

That would say 12-4. However, the Giants were below average in injuries last year. I think 2017 will be an average year. That will cost another game.

I think 11-5 or maybe 12-4 if injuries stay below average.
RE: Better, but not enough that it'll show up in the W/L record, given how  
Klaatu : 9/4/2017 5:35 pm : link
In comment 13583786 Devon said:
Quote:
brutal their schedule is. Even the travel sucks.

They're still not likely going to be able to run the ball and they don't have a passing game that can likely cover entirely for it thanks to the OL and where the QB is at this stage in his career. The defense should be similar to last year (assuming health), but even if they are, winning as many low scoring, close/late games isn't likely repeatable either.

11-5 down to 9-7 or 10-6 may seem like a step back, but it won't really be at all and that's where I see them right now.


With the worst corps of TEs in the history of TEs...with a #2 WR and a #1 RB who both had huge forks sticking out of their backs...with no dependable 3rd down back and no FB...Eli still threw for over 4,000 yards, completing 63% of his passes. "[A]t this stage in his career" he'll be fine. He's got all kinds of new toys to play with...big toys, fast toys, versatile and dynamic toys. The O-Line is still, admittedly, a big question mark, but Eli's propensity for getting rid of the ball quickly, and the ability of guys like OBJ, Marshall, and Engram to get open just as quickly should serve to compensate for that, at least in part.

As for the running game, the idea was that if you couldn't make any significant upgrades on the O-Line - and they really couldn't this year - you compensate by adding TEs who can block effectively along with a true FB. Blocking along the perimeter by guys like Marshall and Engram should help, too.

I do agree that their schedule is brutal - I've said that since the day it was announced. We know this team can be physically tough. The challenge for them in light of the schedule is to be just as tough mentally. We'll see.
Much better  
WillVAB : 9/4/2017 5:35 pm : link
On offense. Should be slightly better on defense. Just need to stay healthy and they'll win the division regardless of the schedule.
.  
Danny Kanell : 9/4/2017 5:36 pm : link
I think they're better. Especially on offense. Much higher overall talent level at TE and WR. The RB position should also improve simply by subtraction of Jennings. On paper, the schedule is much tougher though.
The same as last year  
Tom from LI : 9/4/2017 5:48 pm : link
I personally think if the Defense is rocking.. I could see a much more conservative offense again with a focus on special teams.

I expect many many nail biters again this year.. right down to the wire in more games than I can probably handle.

RE: Team is a bit better  
Rjanyg : 9/4/2017 6:10 pm : link
In comment 13583781 ChicagoMarty said:
Quote:
Schedule is worse.

TE position has gone from a weakness to a strength

Marshall in place of Cruz is a big improvement

Backup Qb looks a bit better

OL is a ?

Darian Thompson at FS has to be an improvement
Goodson in place of Kelvin Shepard is a plus
Backup CB looks better

Pk looks like he could make a tackle if needed


This. 100% agree. Love the 2017 draft class. Starting Perkins from week 1 should be an improvement as well.
I believe overall they are better  
The 12th Man : 9/4/2017 6:34 pm : link
The question really is how does the locker room gel. They have the talent will they believe in each other to sell out for the team concept. Injuries are going to come and we like all others teams will be affected. I believe we have the talent to overcome more than we did last year. I believe we will be better and we will go further than we did last year in the playoffs. Go Blue!
The defense is much better  
ZGiants98 : 9/4/2017 6:35 pm : link
Year two of 10 of 11 starters playing together in Spags system.... I truly think we have a shot at having the best defense in the NFL. I expect steps forward from Eli Apple and BJ Goodson. It's a scary thought that Landon Collins might actually still be getting better as well. As always it will come down to health.

I think the offense is going to be slightly better but I'm not flying off the rails or anything. Eli has some more weapons but I don't trust the line is going to allow him to use them yet. If the line does take a step forward we will see a 2008 type hum through the regular season... (minus the ending).
Better  
Hereditaryemperor : 9/4/2017 6:46 pm : link
I like that we have a FB

I like the new TE. I like that Tye and Donnell are gone.

I don't see any reason why Dallas or Philly has a chance to win this division...Giants by 14 next week
I do think Darian Thompson  
ZGiants98 : 9/4/2017 6:46 pm : link
is overrated here. Thompson/Adams is likely a wash. I also think Hunter and Cockrell are underrated. They might be the best 4th and 5th CB in the NFL.
RE: I do think Darian Thompson  
Hereditaryemperor : 9/4/2017 6:55 pm : link
In comment 13583894 ZGiants98 said:
Quote:
is overrated here. Thompson/Adams is likely a wash. I also think Hunter and Cockrell are underrated. They might be the best 4th and 5th CB in the NFL.


The front four should (and will) do its bid
Not every roster spot on this team  
Hereditaryemperor : 9/4/2017 6:56 pm : link
will be perfection
.  
arcarsenal : 9/4/2017 6:58 pm : link
I think the team is better but the record will remain the same or even regress slightly (10-6)
I got us at 10-6 too  
ZGiants98 : 9/4/2017 7:02 pm : link
We won't get as lucky in the health department as we did last year.
The roster is clearly better on paper  
David B. : 9/4/2017 7:05 pm : link
But that's all we know. If they stay healthy at key positions, they should be better on offense, and as good on D. Maybe better if D. Thompson has an impact.

If they can have some balance and run for 100 yards a game, that would open everything up, and they could be a pretty dynamic, 30-40 point per game offense.
It will be interesting to see if Fluker plays more guard than Jerry  
GeofromNJ : 9/4/2017 7:06 pm : link
because the coaches think he's better and if Jones plays more center than Richburg because the coaches think he's better. If either or both occur, the Giants should be able to sustain drives. If they can do that, they should win games despite the travel and the schedule.
Better ... I am excited  
Steve in South Jersey : 9/4/2017 7:09 pm : link
TE is a huge upgrade in talent and depth

Marshall is a big upgrade at #2 WR. Not so easy to swing the defense to Beckham anymore.

This team seems healthier to start the season. Health as always is very important. They are off to a pretty good start.
We're a bit better  
Torrag : 9/4/2017 7:14 pm : link
WR has been upgraded with Marshall. I think we've covered our bases for losing Hankins but we may be a tick on the whole unit this season. We've got three high quality players at CB but awful depth behind them so that's the same as last year ie we'll be hurting if anyone gets injured. LB depth is crap but if healthy Goodson, Kennard, Casillas and Robinson(concussion) should be a functional unit. If Thompson is durable the starting S tandem will be improved. Engram has looked good in the pre season but that's a small sample, still I think TE may be a more dynamic position for us with him even with rookie growing pains.

Bottomline is we may be a slightly improved roster over last year. However, when you factor in the NFL's toughest schedule with an unfair preparation bias given to our opponents and a brutal travel schedule we'll be fortunate to win the same 11 games we won last season and maybe even fewer.

The good news is Dallas has gotten worse including a key FA loss and a retirement on their vaunted OL. Defensive defections, injuries and suspensions will have them scrambling to stop opponents.

Taking all into account I believe we'll need to win the NFC East to earn a playoff bertrh and that should be feasible.
Better..  
Sean : 9/4/2017 7:20 pm : link
but possibly a worse record. Last years 11-5 was extremely close to being 8-8. Ravens, Bengals, both Dallas games, & first Philly game. I think we are better, but maybe 9/10 wins.
The defense is as good or better  
Gman11 : 9/4/2017 7:23 pm : link
and they were awesome last year.

The offense will be marginally better. Sorry, but I don't think Marshall adds a whole lot. I don't think the running game will be much better except maybe they'll convert more 3 and short situations. If they do that they'll sustain more drives and that helps the defense even more.

I haven't been this optimistic about a Giants team going into the season in a long time.
RE: Not every roster spot on this team  
BigBlueShock : 9/4/2017 7:28 pm : link
In comment 13583903 Hereditaryemperor said:
Quote:
will be perfection

The team should hire you. You're always full of invigorating information.
Marshall  
pjcas18 : 9/4/2017 7:31 pm : link
even if he's only a red zone threat, adds a lot. He doesn't need to get separation like Cruz did because he's 4 or 5 inches taller than Cruz.

Giants seemed to stall in the red zone habitually last year.

and with garbage at QB last year Marshall outpaced Cruz by a lot as the #2 WR.

Even if Marshall duplicates his numbers from last year it's an improvement and that's not even factoring in Marshall's blocking.

I know he's old and I'm not expecting 2012 Brandon Marshall, but think people underestimate how much Cruz (or lack of a threat at the #2 WR) hurt the Giants last year.

Beckham, Marshall, and Shepard could potentially even surpass Nicks, Cruz, and Manningham as the best trio of Giants receivers off the top of my head. Add in Engram, and perhaps a healthy Vereen and the Giants can be hard to defend this year in the passing game - just hope they can run just enough to make the passing game more effective.
I have them in another thread at 14-2  
mpinmaine : 9/4/2017 7:48 pm : link
but I could also see the lack of a push on the O line putting them at 9 or 10 wins,,,it could be worse.
The D should really fuck with opponents game plans
Better personel means better execution  
GeorgeAdams33 : 9/4/2017 7:56 pm : link
1) Now everyone on the defense knows what the unit is capable of. They now know that they can trust each other out there on the field. The coaches know what they have in these guys. Apple, Thompson, Goodson, Hunter, Okawara, and Andrew Adams are no longer rookies.

2) Richburg and Pugh are best utilized pulling and trapping instead of straightline run blocking. We had to run between the tackles last year because of our weak perimeter blocking. With the TEs and FB on this current roster that should be another weakness turned into a strength.

3) Cruz and Tye along with a rookie Sterling Shepard did not do a great job of getting open last year. Eli can get rid of the ball very quickly IF someone is open. He continually had to hold onto the ball last year because nobody was open. With Marshall & Engram along with an experienced SS to go along with OBJ this should no longer be a problem. Eli will be getting rid of the ball quickly again.
I think the team is a little better  
stockton : 9/4/2017 8:04 pm : link
but I agree with the other posters that say it won't show up in the W/L. Or if it does it is only 1 game.

Winning 11+ games isn't easy in the NFL. So the Giants could win the same number of games but increase their point differential and fewer games going down to the wire.

That said, most every fan base thinks their team improved except for the 3-6 teams tanking for a top pick. So it isn't like this question tends to lead to a lot of useful answers.
Every year brings with it  
joeinpa : 9/4/2017 8:06 pm : link
Different challenges different scenarios. However at first glance Giants have the look of a contender. Not sure we felt that way at this time last year.
slightly better on defense,  
prdave73 : 9/4/2017 8:19 pm : link
Mostly likely the same on offense. Does bringing in more weapons help yes, but it doesn't matter if the Oline can't block or the play calling stinks. period.
Substantially  
AcidTest : 9/4/2017 8:24 pm : link
better. We upgraded at the skills positions on offense, and retained JPP. The problem is the OL, but another year of experience will hopefully help.
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