....in the offseason?
I was extremely busy at work basically from January to June and did not have the time to closely follow free agency and the draft.
Who were the good OL available high in the draft that we passed up?
Who were the available FA lineman that we didn't sign and fit under the salary cap?
In order to determine whether Reese should be blamed for not upgrading the line (as many are doing on BBI), there should be a comprehensive review of what could have been done, who he drafted or signed instead, and whether the team as a whole would have been better off.
I'm still on Glenn over Wilson. This has been a problem for a while and we just have done nothing about it.
You would have had massive beef on the right side of the line and a veteran LT to protect Eli's blind side.
I'm going to get off my Lamp soap box but when our resident draft guru is flat out drooling over the guy... calling him the best in the draft.... and he's there for the taking... that's a little annoying.
Again... oh well.
We essentially could have still had our entire offseason minus Jerry and signed him under the cap.
Engram seems like a nice player but he loses value if the offense can't or won't use him to threaten defenses down the middle of the field.
Whitworth/Reiff/Leary would've been nice options in FA but they were expensive. Definitely don't get Marshall and maybe lose some core guys in the future due to the cap.
Unfortunately OL seems to be a blind spot for Reese. The dominant OL from 07 was essentially built by Accorsi. That unit got old a little too fast and Reese didn't have anything in the pipeline. Beatty was a developmental guy who got hurt when he seemed to be coming into his own. Baas didn't live up to expectations. All the mid to late round picks were busts. Schwartz was a failed FA. Sintim over Unger. Wilson over Glenn. Here we are.
Maybe Reese et al need a lesson in Giant history to improve Giant drafting and performance. Reese certainly needs something.
It would be tough to make it work. Not just Odell -- Collins, Pugh, Richberg...maybe DRC. Most likely you're probably put to a decision between keeping a good aging vet you just signed (Whitworth) or overpaying for Richberg or Pugh. Awkward spot.
It would be nice to have Whitworth and Cam Robinson right now though. I think we'd feel a hell of a lot better about the offense.
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Somebody like Whitworth is only getting 15 million guaranteed. You pay him 12 this year and your pretty much done. You can restructure him down in year 3. That's not going to hurt you in in negotiations with Odell and the rest next year at all IMO.
It would be tough to make it work. Not just Odell -- Collins, Pugh, Richberg...maybe DRC. Most likely you're probably put to a decision between keeping a good aging vet you just signed (Whitworth) or overpaying for Richberg or Pugh. Awkward spot.
It would be nice to have Whitworth and Cam Robinson right now though. I think we'd feel a hell of a lot better about the offense.
I agree with what your saying but it's going to be tough either way signing all the players you mentioned. We are currently 10 million under the cap. Forget Jerry and we could have pretty much spent the guaranteed portion of Whitworth's contract this year alone. If it was an issue later we could have asked for a restructure or simply cut him. Changes nothing.
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In comment 13595180 ZGiants98 said:
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Somebody like Whitworth is only getting 15 million guaranteed. You pay him 12 this year and your pretty much done. You can restructure him down in year 3. That's not going to hurt you in in negotiations with Odell and the rest next year at all IMO.
It would be tough to make it work. Not just Odell -- Collins, Pugh, Richberg...maybe DRC. Most likely you're probably put to a decision between keeping a good aging vet you just signed (Whitworth) or overpaying for Richberg or Pugh. Awkward spot.
It would be nice to have Whitworth and Cam Robinson right now though. I think we'd feel a hell of a lot better about the offense.
I agree with what your saying but it's going to be tough either way signing all the players you mentioned. We are currently 10 million under the cap. Forget Jerry and we could have pretty much spent the guaranteed portion of Whitworth's contract this year alone. If it was an issue later we could have asked for a restructure or simply cut him. Changes nothing.
Whitworth turns 36 in December and signed a 3 year 36 million dollar contract. You don't want to restructure a guy at that age. Cut him after one year and you're getting the dead money hit plus a hole in the starting lineup.
My issue is there simply hasn't been a commitment to solidifying the OL. It's been a series of half measures. The OL has been an issue for a while now. They addressed it with Flowers, Pugh, and Richberg. That hasn't been good enough obviously. Whitworth and Robinson would've provided the pieces to field a complete, talented, unit in the short term. I think Robinson alone would make the OL better.
I really hope Engram is a stud because right now that pick is somewhat of a head scratcher. Tye was serviceable. They got Lacosse back. Adams flashed. They paid for Ellison.
Yep. Everyone knew it was the issue and they addressed everything but. Very frustrating.
A new OL coach, for starters.
But what they could've done is trade down with the Niners, who began the day with the 34th pick and offered it along with the 111th and 143rd picks for the Giants 1st round pick. They then could've selected Robinson with the 34th pick and either Dion Dawkins or Taylor Moton with the 55th pick. After that the Giants could've packaged some combination of their 87th, 111th, 140th, and 143rd picks to add more speed to the offense (either at WR, TE, or RB) and/or a DT.
But hindsight is 20/20. And by the end of the year we could be talking about what a steal it was to get Engram with the 23rd pick and Tomlinson with the 55th.
he was not a bad kid.....and off the chart LT talent.
mive flowers to Right
OL fixed imo
i also do not believe we lost to Dallas due to OL
But let's understand that all the OT in the draft had question marks. The big question for me is the RG spot. Fluker can't be worse than Jerry. I am pretty sure Jones is better. We need to be able to run the ball and it starts at RG. Feeney or Lamp would have been nice additions even Ron Leary. Zeitler got a huge contact but look how bad Cincy was without him last week.
starting LT*
A new OL coach, for starters.
This. Somebody forgot to tell the Vikes that there were such a dearth of options available to re-tool an OL.
There is a LOT of middle ground between spending $15m/year on OL free agents and trotting out Bobby Hart and John Jerry as starters.
A new OL coach, for starters.
It's funny how the Vikings and Broncos recognized an enrromous problem and addressed it. Giants have the same problem and didn't absolutely nothing to fix it. Why expect it to get better?
I'm a big Jerry Reese fan but this was a colossal mistake. Sign Whitworth and figure out the money- only 15 mill guaranteed. I'm not really worried about not being able to overpay Pugh or Richburg. Whitworth is a top level Left Tackle. Pugh and Richburg are average players at best.
But let's understand that all the OT in the draft had question marks. The big question for me is the RG spot. Fluker can't be worse than Jerry. I am pretty sure Jones is better. We need to be able to run the ball and it starts at RG. Feeney or Lamp would have been nice additions even Ron Leary. Zeitler got a huge contact but look how bad Cincy was without him last week.
Well all of the draftniks said it was a weak OL class but early returns are showing they were epically wrong. Right now it has to be one of the best value classes considering where these guys were picked.
There's nothing they can do besides get fleeced in a trade and probably hurt their cap situation. It's that or give the backups a shot.
As someone said, they could have done the trade with the 49ers, and gotten 34, 111, and 143. But most people here thought Reese made the right call in not doing so. There was apparently a lot of interest to trade up to get Engram. Atlanta supposedly wanted him very badly.
Drafting Lamp or C. Robinson was more realistic, and then relying on Adams, Ellison, and LaCosse.
Might have also tried G. Robinson, although we did sign Fluker.
Whitworth is another possibility. But we had just spent $200M in FA the year before, so I'm not sure how realistic that would have been.
We accept what we have right now. Bench Jerry for Jones. I also wouldn't be surprised to see Wheeler at some point this season. He lacks mass, but has the feet to play tackle.
You preach "heavy-handedness" then stop babying them.
If the only redeeming quality you have is that you are supposedly good at pass blocking and have "continuity" with your starting linemates, but you continue to fall for the same damn basic stunt in the exact same situation, and you routinely get pushed backwards suffocating the pocket,, you don't deserve to be handed the starting job without second thought if someone could do the job better.
At least other guys don't get pushed back and can get some push in the running game. You think we could use a little of that?
How about we start there???
This problem extends way beyond this offseason - it's been an issue for years, and is likely to derail what is otherwise a SB caliber roster
We need Odell back asap so he can turn slants into 80 yard TDs because this line is a joke
Trades may be an option as well. Plenty of deals made this year but that's not the way this team operates. Seattle Atlanta NE and Philly are all open to improving their rosters this way and teams like the Jets Buffalo and Cleveland are open to moving resources.
Do you think their reluctance to go after Whitworth was because they wanted Flowers to work at LT? Or did they not want to pay for a 36 year old? As Krath pointed out, his deal is structured for really only 1 year. How did they not pursue him?
I would have signed Whitworth, signed another lower priced FA, drafted an OL in the first 2 rounds, and moved flowers to RG. This could have drastically improved the line. Now I just don't see how this unit can improve... Talent isnt there and the depth is scary bad.
2) run more 2 TE sets and use the middle of the field
3) be less generic and formation better
4) use Marshall's size
5) not have david carr syndrome in the pocket
6) try someone different at RG to at least have an OK run game... since pass blocking is less then ideal as well
Atlanta - Sambrailo, Ty T
Ravens - Bergstrom, Tony C
Seahawks - Battle, Isaiah T
Ravens - Bowanko, Luke C
49ers - Tomlinson, Laken G
Chiefs - Erving, Cameron G
Jets - Hennessy, Thomas C
Redskins - Crowley, Lucas C
Seahawks - Tobin, Matt T
Broncos - Barbre, Allen G
Saints- Dorenbos, Jon C
And again, my biggest issues is their failing to generate competition. But beyond that, if I were the GM I would leave no stone unturned in effort to fix this.
Atlanta - Sambrailo, Ty T
Ravens - Bergstrom, Tony C
Seahawks - Battle, Isaiah T
Ravens - Bowanko, Luke C
49ers - Tomlinson, Laken G
Chiefs - Erving, Cameron G
Jets - Hennessy, Thomas C
Redskins - Crowley, Lucas C
Seahawks - Tobin, Matt T
Broncos - Barbre, Allen G
Saints- Dorenbos, Jon C
And again, my biggest issues is their failing to generate competition. But beyond that, if I were the GM I would leave no stone unturned in effort to fix this.
Why not trade for Greg Robinson who is now the starting left tackle for the Lions? Only cost them a 6th round pick and 1 year left on his deal at 3 mill. Could have let him compete with Flowers for the LT spot.
My biggest issue with Reese was not bringing in any competition for this putrid unit. Make them earn their jobs. Who really competed with Flowers for that position???
only one man is to blame. Players like Tomlinson and Cameron Erving were acquired right before the start of the season!
I think a 5th rounder was used for Erving, not sure on Tomlinson. Some of the other free agents in the offseason
were getting about 12 mill. AAV, like a Riley Rieff.
Whitworth got that much, and if they signed him,
well than Reese would be admitting that Flowers was a bust.
Jerry's ego won't allow that...I am not going to blame him
for not drafting someone who had a bong in his face, other teams passed on Tunsil as well.
I would hope Jones or Fluker is starting soon. Hart has
'an ankle', might be out on Monday. Maybe Chad Wheeler
gets a start?
Now Tunsil is an excellent LT playing in an excellent scheme for Adam Gase!