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Giants' offensive line crisis | How did they get here?

Eric from BBI : Admin : 9/12/2017 8:14 am
James Kratch article...
8 thoughts on Giants' offensive line crisis | How did they get here? - ( New Window )
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I need to find some time to look  
bigbluehoya : 9/12/2017 8:30 am : link
At OL who were drafted after Tomlinson and Webb and how they're doing.

For some reason the conversation about draft opportunities has been strictly limited to the first round.
would you forsake Odell  
I Love Clams Casino : 9/12/2017 8:32 am : link
for Zack Martin?
Superficial article  
WillVAB : 9/12/2017 8:33 am : link
The OL problem has been years in the making and dates back around the time Reese won his second Lombardi.
Here how I see it  
The_Boss : 9/12/2017 8:37 am : link
They didn't do much the last 2 calendar years to upgrade the unit and now they've resorted to hoping 5 very shitty players somehow gel together (after many games together already) and don't blow up the entire season. Again. That's a sound strategy, no?
Disagree - I think it's a great article  
jcn56 : 9/12/2017 8:39 am : link
I think it sums up perfectly exactly what's happened the past 2-3 seasons to put us where we are.

If you want to go back to what is now ancient history by NFL roster transition standards, you can look at Snee's premature retirement, a healthy player in Baas being acquired in FA and becoming injury prone, failure to invest higher picks in the draft - but now you're going past what the root cause of today's situation is.

I agree with him that Whitworth was probably the best FA option for the Giants. Beyond that, a lot of washed up and injured players and a bunch of unknowns cashing in for big money. When it was initially announced I thought they made a good move not compromising future cap flexibility with that much guaranteed money going to a player over 35, but if what Kratch says is true and there's an out, then it seems like a mistake that the Giants didn't pursue him and try to push Flowers elsewhere.
RE: Superficial article  
The_Boss : 9/12/2017 8:40 am : link
In comment 13595318 WillVAB said:
Quote:
The OL problem has been years in the making and dates back around the time Reese won his second Lombardi.


Agreed. I've been saying they've been tinkering with the OL since 2013 with failed draft picks and FA aquisitions.
Awful FO and Scout  
Harvest Blend : 9/12/2017 8:41 am : link
evaluation of OLinemen. That's how they got here.

That and doing nothing to even try and make it better.
Very  
AcidTest : 9/12/2017 8:45 am : link
good article. The internal "solutions" are limited to replacing Jerry with Jones, and as Kratch correctly notes, the Giants will be very patient before making any changes. Jerry was just resigned to a three year deal.
The team's track record on acquiring OL the last 5-6 years has been  
Heisenberg : 9/12/2017 8:46 am : link
pretty terrible. None of the high picks has really worked out as expected. None of the low picks have been finds. They've all under performed their draft position. They've avoided spending $$ in FA. That's how we get here.
RE: would you forsake Odell  
chuckydee9 : 9/12/2017 8:50 am : link
In comment 13595317 I Love Clams Casino said:
Quote:
for Zack Martin?


One lineman doesn't fix the OL while OBJ is a transcendant player that effects the entire Offense... But would I trade Eli Apple or Engram for Tunsil and Cam Robinson or Lamp? hell yes..
RE: Very  
jcn56 : 9/12/2017 8:53 am : link
In comment 13595344 AcidTest said:
Quote:
good article. The internal "solutions" are limited to replacing Jerry with Jones, and as Kratch correctly notes, the Giants will be very patient before making any changes. Jerry was just resigned to a three year deal.


Jerry's deal was small enough that it's inconsequential. The problem isn't his cost - the problem is what you replace him with.

I do think for two years, though - the Giants have been playing up hope and it's been failing them. Last year, Pugh and Richburg were both injured for long stretches, and I think they were hoping a return to health would make them much improved. They're far from the problem, but also no great shakes.

Jerry had a better year in a contract year - but all preseason and now game 1 he looked terrible.

Flowers had an inconsistent rookie year at LT when the plan was to let him spend time developing elsewhere on the line, and regressed in his sophomore year. A strong offseason of work had the Giants hoping his technique issues would be solved. From the looks of it, that's not the case.

They've been miscalculating the trajectories of player development for awhile now - either because they're overly optimistic, feel too strongly about guys they've acquired, or they've been unlucky.
Solari  
spike : 9/12/2017 8:57 am : link
Sucks
Looks bleak really  
The_Boss : 9/12/2017 8:59 am : link
Assuming they go nowhere this year because of the OL, we have one "all in" year remaining with Eli. Where do we go on the OL? The thought of handing Pugh $8-10 million is nauseating as is keeping a soft as tissue paper Richburg at C. We cannot have Jerry at LG now or in 2018 and Hart is a backup who is a starter. I didn't even mention the bust at LT. It's a mess anyway you cut it.
slight missaprehension there  
idiotsavant : 9/12/2017 9:02 am : link
I don't necessarily see it as a bias -against- line play, per se.

Its more that Jerry Reese seems to have a very longstanding bias -for- certain types of players come draft day, and that does not include the hefty variety. which end up being an after thought or patch job pick.

and, remembering that folks don't see busts before hand, if you look at a 'type' of player he likes, and if you include all those guys that we don't even remember their names, Jerrys bias is evident.

and all that displaced consideration of linesmen during the rounds and draft days where they needed to be in view

just like any bias, it tends to preclude clear thinking when you need that
I said before, this ol is going to hinder this team of getting  
micky : 9/12/2017 9:02 am : link
to their goal, playoffs and possible super bowl.

Can't blame them about this Offseason, as said in article, there wasn't any viable upgrade via draft (exception of moving up for conklin..which was impossible) or FA.

but, addressing it prior years is a start of problem..its whomever evaluating the talent and finding ol that fit their ol scheme, are the ones to blame mostly. whether it's scouting or gm himself. they invested in ol with high draft picks, but someone swung and miss on talent evaluation with most part of the players playing on this line now.

sorry, but this also lies on ol coach Solari, if they are still having issues with basic stunts by dl, then something isn't getting through to these players.

it's a whole, gm, ol coach, players on ol, scouts, etc that are at fault.

... in addition to the history lesson  
ATL_Giants : 9/12/2017 9:07 am : link
.. we are also fooked this year.

Thanks OL!
RE: Here how I see it  
BillKo : 9/12/2017 9:09 am : link
In comment 13595328 The_Boss said:
Quote:
They didn't do much the last 2 calendar years to upgrade the unit and now they've resorted to hoping 5 very shitty players somehow gel together (after many games together already) and don't blow up the entire season. Again. That's a sound strategy, no?


Five very shitty players? I think that's going a bit overboard.........
I have long...long.. said here that its a cop out to see a  
idiotsavant : 9/12/2017 9:10 am : link
'lack of the ten year left tackle prospect' as an excuse not to draft or consider linesmen early.

Look at Zach Martin (and you could have an example or two every draft year) high and high ish picks that end up at guard are often lynchpins that teams build offense around.

Flip that to D...take a look at the Vikings D being built around, in part, our old pal Linval Joseph. (love our current DL, now, lets not reduce conversations here)

back on O. By last year it was very evident that Macs type of Offense required amazing, above the norm, G-C-G play to keep the pocket clean and for the types of runs he uses. Canty mentioned the giants G-C-G pre draft as well (I obsessed on it here) on ESPN.
RE: slight missaprehension there  
Ten Ton Hammer : 9/12/2017 9:12 am : link
In comment 13595380 idiotsavant said:
Quote:
I don't necessarily see it as a bias -against- line play, per se.

Its more that Jerry Reese seems to have a very longstanding bias -for- certain types of players come draft day, and that does not include the hefty variety. which end up being an after thought or patch job pick.

and, remembering that folks don't see busts before hand, if you look at a 'type' of player he likes, and if you include all those guys that we don't even remember their names, Jerrys bias is evident.

and all that displaced consideration of linesmen during the rounds and draft days where they needed to be in view

just like any bias, it tends to preclude clear thinking when you need that


Do you mean a certain type of lineman? Seems hard to say he has a bias toward a certain size lineman when Flowers was picked. No tackle was bigger or stronger than he was in the draft.
as I said above  
idiotsavant : 9/12/2017 9:15 am : link
the obvious bias is not -against- the bigs, its a bias -for- skinny skills position players of a certain type and mein and which has been very, very longstanding on both O and D and something Jerry seems to struggle with, reappearing oddly.

and which just seems to cloud the vision, just enough, each spring, to keep this particular imbalance going.
There is some validity to it though  
Ten Ton Hammer : 9/12/2017 9:18 am : link
Quality skill position players cost a fortune on the free agent market. You have to draft them when you can find them .
TTH  
idiotsavant : 9/12/2017 9:19 am : link
no, I mean jerry has a bias towards skinny -non- linesmen types.

Even, for years, jerry, in building the DL, looked at those SAM types (Adrian Awesome? Clint Sintim?) when we needed solid, wide based, 270+ 4-3 types.

then, most years, EE (great player, ok, but we needed beef, Becks, great player, but we needed beef, David Wilson, who knows, meh, but we needed beef...and on and on and on)

Jerry drafts kids that would look great in Dancing with the Stars. That's his bias.
How can you have a bias for the skinnier guys  
jcn56 : 9/12/2017 9:20 am : link
and have it not be a bias against the bigger ones?

I don't think that's it at all. In addition to Flowers, look at the other guys they liked. The only place that seems to hold true is at DE, where they have that hybrid DE/LB role they like so much.
It was a good article  
AnnapolisMike : 9/12/2017 9:21 am : link
summing up what has happened over the past few years. I don't think it is brought up enough..but the departure of Snee, Baas and Beatty earlier than anticipated started this downward spiral. Pugh and Richburg are both fine players. Flowers just has not worked out that well. Hart is what he is and Jerry is not living up to his new contract.

Ultimately, the Giants are going to need to figure out a way to make this group work.
I'm very disappointed in the OL play.....  
BillKo : 9/12/2017 9:24 am : link
...but I think the one thing we need to do is see how things progress. This same line was functional last year. Not the best, but at least functional.

That wasn't the case on Sunday evening.......but there are 15 more games to go and I would say this line should be at least to get back to the point they were last year.

Again, that's not great.......but with the TE/FB help and some tweaks by the coaching staff, they have a chance.

I'm not writing the unit off yet. Again, hardly the best, but they can't be as bad as they were on Sunday.
even within skills position players  
idiotsavant : 9/12/2017 9:24 am : link
there can be similar bias. presumptions about body type that don't play out in real games as often as assumed. the old saw 'good taper'.

the remarkable thing is how consistent this theme has been.

go back to Jim Fassel (don't remember who the GM was).

same effect, the 'Ferrari without an Engine' effect.

all these tools and no way to get them the ball other than 'chuck and duck' or short underneath throws that get your' wrs killed.

which is why becks is frustrated right now.
Elie getting old in a hurry hurts  
UberAlias : 9/12/2017 9:26 am : link
He doesn't need to be a dynamic mover back there, but the guy who once made the Tyree play and kept poised in the face of an assault from the 49ers pass rush is not the guy I am seeing back there today.

It is not his lack of speed so much as it is lack of confidence when the pocket begins to close in or a pass rusher breaks free. It used to be Eli would remain calm, shift and slide and wait for something to open, now it is panic get rid of it.
Call me nuts but I think Pugh and Flowers have been good  
PatersonPlank : 9/12/2017 9:28 am : link
The right side I'm right there with the rest of you, especially Jerry, but I think Flowers is much better and Pugh is playing well. No OL player is perfect. Jerry needs to go though, and then we see about Hart.
PP  
UberAlias : 9/12/2017 9:28 am : link
Agreed.
RE: Elie getting old in a hurry hurts  
BillKo : 9/12/2017 9:29 am : link
In comment 13595430 UberAlias said:
Quote:
He doesn't need to be a dynamic mover back there, but the guy who once made the Tyree play and kept poised in the face of an assault from the 49ers pass rush is not the guy I am seeing back there today.

It is not his lack of speed so much as it is lack of confidence when the pocket begins to close in or a pass rusher breaks free. It used to be Eli would remain calm, shift and slide and wait for something to open, now it is panic get rid of it.


Agreed....Eli's mobility isn't much different than years past.

It's now how he's being asked to move around. He used to knew and have a feel for how his line was going to block and where the pressure might come from. Now......every play is different - breakdowns can come from anywhere - and the confidence simply isn't there for him.

RE: I'm very disappointed in the OL play.....  
jcn56 : 9/12/2017 9:29 am : link
In comment 13595425 BillKo said:
Quote:
...but I think the one thing we need to do is see how things progress. This same line was functional last year. Not the best, but at least functional.

That wasn't the case on Sunday evening.......but there are 15 more games to go and I would say this line should be at least to get back to the point they were last year.

Again, that's not great.......but with the TE/FB help and some tweaks by the coaching staff, they have a chance.

I'm not writing the unit off yet. Again, hardly the best, but they can't be as bad as they were on Sunday.


I don't think they were as bad as advertised on Sunday night - the offense in general, between playcalling and individual performances by skill players - was no great shakes.

The concern here is that even if the OL was passable - it was against what should be one of the worst front 4s in all of football, with little to no blitzing.
the original sin  
giantfan2000 : 9/12/2017 9:30 am : link
it all goes back to TC's horrible Strength and Conditioning Program

Will Beatty had career ending injury in the WEIGHT ROOM

(and people forget he also had off season weight room injury in 2011 which hampered his 2012 season.)

I have said this before - when your S & C is league worse you can't properly build a team

for example you draft OL and thinking you have the position settled for next 5 - 7 years but then 3 years in they have an injury that is either career ending or lingering

you suddenly have to fill that hole in your roster and that is one less player you can draft to build depth in your team. you start getting significant holes in your roster and have to decide what your priorities are .. .

We were league leading most injured team 3 years in a row not only were we league leaguing but each year we would break record on amount of players that missed games .

We still digging out of the hole that TC Strength and Conditioning crew put our team in .

it will take another year or two before our roster finally stabilizes and we have some depth at all positions .


doubly annoying is that pro football  
idiotsavant : 9/12/2017 9:33 am : link
had always had a delicious Blue Collar appeal. Which implies a bit of humility;

-The elevation of ugly men, rough men, who otherwise might have had a tough time fitting in, in this life.-

Consider the early heyday of NY football, when another option for guys like that might have been at the docks. Literally handing large crates and boxes on a show up day labor rate and situation. Waiting in a group of guys just like you for a shout, 'we need five at pier 43.' Lucky you.

Then, on Sundays, a brutal game but it beats the heck out of waiting around the docks for work, or joining the military, or breaking into trucks.

Here, its become, 'lets hope that meany dallas D cuts us a break on the pass rush this week'.
I like Eli Apple, think he has a bright future  
Kyle in NY : 9/12/2017 9:33 am : link
But taking Taylor Decker in 2016 would have helped a lot. The Lions are thrilled with him
This line bothers me from article:  
area junc : 9/12/2017 9:34 am : link
"While looking for Hart to make strides after showing promise before losing his job late in the season."

Hart played his way OUT of the starting lineup by the end of the year to Marshall Newhouse. He was trending down, not up. If you benched him in week 16, there is no logic to assuming you've got a quality starter on your hands.
What is really disconcerting is that players like...  
M.S. : 9/12/2017 9:34 am : link

...Ereck Flowers and John Jerry make the same mistakes over and over again.

And we saw more of the same on Sunday Night.

In the case of Ereck Flowers, it's all about defensive ends getting him to put too much weight on his outside leg, and then he is ultra vulnerable to an inside rip job straight to the QB.

As for John Jerry, the guy just can't figure out that
when the defensive tackle rubs into him and then into Hart, he's got to be mindful of a LB or DE looping into his vacated hole.

Same thing all the time.

Big trouble for Big Blue.

RE: RE: I'm very disappointed in the OL play.....  
BillKo : 9/12/2017 9:34 am : link
In comment 13595438 jcn56 said:
Quote:
In comment 13595425 BillKo said:


Quote:


...but I think the one thing we need to do is see how things progress. This same line was functional last year. Not the best, but at least functional.

That wasn't the case on Sunday evening.......but there are 15 more games to go and I would say this line should be at least to get back to the point they were last year.

Again, that's not great.......but with the TE/FB help and some tweaks by the coaching staff, they have a chance.

I'm not writing the unit off yet. Again, hardly the best, but they can't be as bad as they were on Sunday.



I don't think they were as bad as advertised on Sunday night - the offense in general, between playcalling and individual performances by skill players - was no great shakes.

The concern here is that even if the OL was passable - it was against what should be one of the worst front 4s in all of football, with little to no blitzing.


I might use GamePass and look at the coach's tape to see how things were transpiring, if guys in patterns were getting open.

It just looked to me that Eli didn't have time to go thru progressions, and when they did throw the choices seemed odd (very short, guys covered, etc.)

The drive to start the second half is hopefully what we'll see more of. That started with a big third down conversion (good protection, seperation on route) which gave them field position for the first time and that loosened things up.

Again, we can't be that bad on offense...things will get better.
In other words  
area junc : 9/12/2017 9:34 am : link
He should've been improving as he gained experience, not regressing.
No way you give back Odell to have Martin  
Kyle in NY : 9/12/2017 9:35 am : link
But Decker over Apple, yeah probably
RE: What is really disconcerting is that players like...  
BillKo : 9/12/2017 9:36 am : link
In comment 13595452 M.S. said:
Quote:

...Ereck Flowers and John Jerry make the same mistakes over and over again.

And we saw more of the same on Sunday Night.

In the case of Ereck Flowers, it's all about defensive ends getting him to put too much weight on his outside leg, and then he is ultra vulnerable to an inside rip job straight to the QB.

As for John Jerry, the guy just can't figure out that
when the defensive tackle rubs into him and then into Hart, he's got to be mindful of a LB or DE looping into his vacated hole.

Same thing all the time.

Big trouble for Big Blue.


MS - I agree...I wonder about Jerry's football acumen. That seems to be a simple correction, but he has struggled with it since he's been a Giant.
My problem with the article...  
Dan in the Springs : 9/12/2017 9:37 am : link
is that it completely skims over the free agency period last year. So they didn't count on Flowers to play his rookie season at LT, he had to, and they got by. His play was the low point on that line, but he was a rookie and had an ankle injury to boot.

But there were a few LT available in FA after that season that were had for reasonable dollars. While a few were linked to the Giants, reports indicated that the Giants were making it clear to them that they were looking for a RT, that LT was covered (by Flowers).

They should have been bringing in competition for Flowers that year. If he won the job, great. If not, he could continue to develop behind a pro, or compete for a RT spot.

I also think the idea of drafting guys (Pugh, Biz) who have played only on the left side their entire college career, then forcing them to practice/play exclusively on the right side, and finally evaluating their tackle play at that unnatural position is a mistake.

Most importantly though, I think they need to spend all of their practice time of group drills - no individual work. Have all their individual work done outside of the CBA-limited practice time. Cohesion requires repetition, and they obviously aren't getting enough of it. Let them work on their individual stuff outside of practice.
The staff & front office is quickly losing  
area junc : 9/12/2017 9:37 am : link
the benefit of the doubt on players.

Jerry should've been let go. Jones has demonstrated he deserves to play. Flowers should've been moved inside to G, like other teams do when they are over their head at T. And he just might be a dominant G. Pugh is the best LT on the team.

The line should've been:

Pugh - Jones - Richburg - Flowers - new RT. Yes, Riley Reiff, draft pick - but prioritized in UFA/draft.

------------

Instead, we stick with status quo as we've largely done for years. Please don't give me the "what could we have done?" crap.
RE: My problem with the article...  
jcn56 : 9/12/2017 9:41 am : link
In comment 13595458 Dan in the Springs said:
Quote:
is that it completely skims over the free agency period last year. So they didn't count on Flowers to play his rookie season at LT, he had to, and they got by. His play was the low point on that line, but he was a rookie and had an ankle injury to boot.

But there were a few LT available in FA after that season that were had for reasonable dollars. While a few were linked to the Giants, reports indicated that the Giants were making it clear to them that they were looking for a RT, that LT was covered (by Flowers).

They should have been bringing in competition for Flowers that year. If he won the job, great. If not, he could continue to develop behind a pro, or compete for a RT spot.

I also think the idea of drafting guys (Pugh, Biz) who have played only on the left side their entire college career, then forcing them to practice/play exclusively on the right side, and finally evaluating their tackle play at that unnatural position is a mistake.

Most importantly though, I think they need to spend all of their practice time of group drills - no individual work. Have all their individual work done outside of the CBA-limited practice time. Cohesion requires repetition, and they obviously aren't getting enough of it. Let them work on their individual stuff outside of practice.


Beyond Whitworth, who was available at LT that was worthy of a starting spot? I don't think he skimmed over it too badly - what he mentioned was there were a lot of retreads (Khalil, doesn't mention Clady but that was implied).

OL play being what it is around the league means very few good LTs hit the market. The ones that do have question marks - in Whitworth's case, his age.

That's one of the reasons you don't see Staley or Thomas going anywhere. Everyone keeps insisting they could be had for a 2nd rounder - but if that's the case, given the dearth of good LT play, why hasn't someone (if not the Giants) made that trade yet? Answer - because neither the Niners nor Browns want to do it. Contenders or not, they still need a LT to protect their QBs, and trading a good one for a 2nd rounder is lunacy.
We see teams all the time scheme around their weaknesses  
Rflairr : 9/12/2017 9:42 am : link
I think we all took for granted Coughlin's role in game planning.
RE: My problem with the article...  
micky : 9/12/2017 9:44 am : link
In comment 13595458 Dan in the Springs said:
Quote:
is that it completely skims over the free agency period last year. So they didn't count on Flowers to play his rookie season at LT, he had to, and they got by. His play was the low point on that line, but he was a rookie and had an ankle injury to boot.

But there were a few LT available in FA after that season that were had for reasonable dollars. While a few were linked to the Giants, reports indicated that the Giants were making it clear to them that they were looking for a RT, that LT was covered (by Flowers).

They should have been bringing in competition for Flowers that year. If he won the job, great. If not, he could continue to develop behind a pro, or compete for a RT spot.

I also think the idea of drafting guys (Pugh, Biz) who have played only on the left side their entire college career, then forcing them to practice/play exclusively on the right side, and finally evaluating their tackle play at that unnatural position is a mistake.

Most importantly though, I think they need to spend all of their practice time of group drills - no individual work. Have all their individual work done outside of the CBA-limited practice time. Cohesion requires repetition, and they obviously aren't getting enough of it. Let them work on their individual stuff outside of practice.


Quote:
But there were a few LT available in FA after that season that were had for reasonable dollars. While a few were linked to the Giants, reports indicated that the Giants were making it clear to them that they were looking for a RT, that LT was covered (by Flowers).


that in itself was a mistake by the giants, putting it out there to potential free agents, that Flowers wasn't moving from lt.

it's always said, it's best to have competition at or for a position. it might've pushed Flowers, and been better for, to have someone come in and push, whether flowers or whomever on this ol, for their position. bad decision imo
You guys are also mixing up your seasons - Reese was amenable  
jcn56 : 9/12/2017 9:48 am : link
to moving Flowers from LT after '16 - as Kratch points out in the article.

A big part of the problem has been poor FA classes for two years running. Mediocre guys getting top dollar in FA. Even though I'm not crazy about our current situation, if you can't find at least a good player (only 2 of our guys are worse than mediocre, believe it or not), what's the point in paying them?
http://www.nj.com/giants/index.ssf/2017/01/options_giants_could_pursue_to_replace_ereck_flo.html - ( New Window )
mediocre free agents if you presume only the tackle position  
idiotsavant : 9/12/2017 9:51 am : link
whereas if I remember that there have been some good guards and centers.
RE: mediocre free agents if you presume only the tackle position  
jcn56 : 9/12/2017 9:54 am : link
In comment 13595477 idiotsavant said:
Quote:
whereas if I remember that there have been some good guards and centers.


There were a handful in '15 and '16 - and the competition for them was intense.

Osemele - got LT money to play guard.

A lot of guys with question marks - Sitton, cut by the Packers with an injury history. Boone - signed by the Vikings and released. Older guys like Evan Mathis.

It's not to say that there weren't options - but in some cases, options that weren't much better than what we had, at a steep increase in price.
RE: RE: My problem with the article...  
Dan in the Springs : 9/12/2017 9:55 am : link
In comment 13595463 jcn56 said:
Quote:

Beyond Whitworth, who was available at LT that was worthy of a starting spot? I don't think he skimmed over it too badly - what he mentioned was there were a lot of retreads (Khalil, doesn't mention Clady but that was implied).


I'm talking about the year before - during the winter/spring of 2016, not this year.

There were a few LT that were had. The biggest catch ended up being Donald Penn. Here's an article on the interest they had in him:
[quote]Penn is as durable as they come. He has started all 16 games in each of the last eight seasons, dating back to 2008 with the Buccaneers. Despite his age, Penn would be a good fit for the Giants, who still have potentially two open spots to fill on their offensive line. However, like with Russell Okung, who recently visited, Penn would be asked to move to the right side as long as the Giants are as committed to Ereck Flowers as their left tackle as general manager Jerry Reese suggested they were.

So they let him go back to Oakland, who signed him for an unbelievably low amount (2 yrs, $11.9MM). Cap hit was just $6MM last year and would have been $7MM this year because he hit some incentives - like making the pro-bowl last year

This, to me, was clearly the biggest miss the Giants made. They let it be known that LT was not available. They could have signed a pro-bowler for the position last year for under $15MM on a two-year deal, which would have given Flowers competition, and given the length of the deal wouldn't have impeded the Giants from promoting or moving on from Penn had Flowers growth indicated he deserved it.

This oversight is never, ever mentioned by the press, but is clearly (to me) the biggest error made in trying to rebuild the line.
getting back to bias in a free society  
idiotsavant : 9/12/2017 9:58 am : link
often its not about what you hate or seek to exclude, its in truth really more from the pull side, what garners your attention.

then, of course, given limited time, that which garners less of your attention, gets excluded to a % de facto.

Joe considered hiring his brother in law Fred for his lawn mowing company, decent enough guy, no problems, but his friend Al also likes fishing, as Joe does, so that was more convenient.

Now, I love fishing, so that's cool, but you cannot claim that Joe used objective criteria regarding mowers.
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