I don't think being a Giant is particularly important to him.
And this comment is based on what exactly? Also, other than Eli, who else on this roster can any one of us say "being a Giant is particularly important to them" Players don't look at franchises the same way fans do. OBJ will go where the money is, and Mara has made it clear, the Giants will pay him when the time comes.
You said it yourself...players will go where the money is. Yes, Mara said the Giants would pay him but that doesn't mean they're the only team that would be willing to do so. I imagine that if Beckham reaches free agency healthy that he'll have his pick of several destinations.
Thats just it. I don't see him reaching FA
RE: RE: I could easily see Beckham opting to go elsewhere
I don't think being a Giant is particularly important to him.
He needs NY as much as NY needs him.
Why? Would his endorsement opportunities dwindle overnight if he's not physically located in New York or playing for what might wind up being an average, boring team?
Shit, imagine his endorsement opportunities if he played for an elite team.
We were 11-5 last year. We are bringing back a better team than we had and because of 1 bad opening game performance on the road in prime time, we aren't a good team. Unbelievable. Fans are so annoying.
RE: Mac can start with handing over play-calling to Sullivan...
...I truly think the Giants need an experienced, successful OC to be brought in. Will that happen this year, no, but next year I think it may be an absolute necessity. Sullivan is a great person, but has he really ever been successful as an OC?
I agree that the team needs a real offensive coordinator whom McAdoo can trust with playcalling. In the near term, I doubt that handing anything over to Mike Sullivan will improve play selection, though I guess it might help McAdoo's development just by removing a distraction. To me, Sullivan is the John Jerry of offensive coordinators: he got the job because he was available, and has kept it because he's here and doesn't cause trouble. I'm not even sure why you think he's a great person. Do you know him personally? Did he cure polio or rescue hurricane survivors or something?
Is this a big week for MacAdoo? Yes it is. The team showed the same problems as last year and whats worse is the offensive coaching staff had no answer for soft zone/shell coverage. McAdoo cannot allow this to be the achilles heel of his offense. Anyone watching the game saw that the team came out flat. Who knows why, but the Head Coach can't allow that to happen again.
Is McAdoo on the hot seat? I highly doubt it. You don't go 11-5 one year (after your predeccesor had a long playoff drought) and lose your job if you miss the playoffs. What could realistically happen is forced changes. Ownership making McAdoo hire a real offensive coordinator. Ownership getting more involved in OL personnel decisions. Those are all realistic possibilities. The Giants defense was visibly upset on Sunday night, and frustrated with the continued inept offense. This week is a test of McAdoo's coaching skills. This week is all about his ability to lead, adapt, and strategize. All the reasons one hires a HC. So yeah, this is a big week.
Stapleton is probably the best beat writer out there right now. And I don't think his OBJ tweet was meant to mean OBJ is GOING to leave if the Giants continue to lose. What he is cautioning everyone is that if the Giants offense continues to be its own worst enemy, you could have a situation in roughly two years where OBJ starts looking at other options. Now, I don't see that happening, because the Giants appear to be committed to OBJ like they are committed to Eli. However 30 days ago, OBJ in blue was a foregone conclusion. All Stapleton is cautioning is that OBJ forever in Giants blue may not be a SURE thing if the Giants offense is inept. Like I said, I don't see the dire scenation playing out.
RE: RE: RE: I could easily see Beckham opting to go elsewhere
I don't think being a Giant is particularly important to him.
He needs NY as much as NY needs him.
Why? Would his endorsement opportunities dwindle overnight if he's not physically located in New York or playing for what might wind up being an average, boring team?
Shit, imagine his endorsement opportunities if he played for an elite team.
Look at it this way, Eli vs Russell Wilson, Matt Ryan, or even Rothlesberger. Way more endorsement deals available to Eli, even though those three players are just as talented and some cases accomplished. I don't think it is something we fans can undertand completely. We don't roll in these circles.
We were 11-5 last year. We are bringing back a better team than we had and because of 1 bad opening game performance on the road in prime time, we aren't a good team. Unbelievable. Fans are so annoying.
Eh, the jury is still out. They really may not be a good team this year, no matter what they were last year. Or in a few weeks we could look back at week 1 as an aberration, a game the Cowboys felt they had to have vs one the Giants weren't well-equipped to play (largely due to OBJ's absence). Who knows? But without improvement from the RB's and the OL, it's entirely possible this team is merely average or slightly worse.
RE: RE: RE: RE: I could easily see Beckham opting to go elsewhere
Look at it this way, Eli vs Russell Wilson, Matt Ryan, or even Rothlesberger. Way more endorsement deals available to Eli, even though those three players are just as talented and some cases accomplished. I don't think it is something we fans can undertand completely. We don't roll in these circles.
That's assuming that each of those guys without endorsements have instructed their agents to actively pursue them. Why does JJ Watt have more endorsements than JPP or Vernon?
It may be hard to believe, but a good portion of the country doesn't even think about New York City once every day.
RE: RE: RE: RE: RE: I could easily see Beckham opting to go elsewhere
Look at it this way, Eli vs Russell Wilson, Matt Ryan, or even Rothlesberger. Way more endorsement deals available to Eli, even though those three players are just as talented and some cases accomplished. I don't think it is something we fans can undertand completely. We don't roll in these circles.
That's assuming that each of those guys without endorsements have instructed their agents to actively pursue them. Why does JJ Watt have more endorsements than JPP or Vernon?
It may be hard to believe, but a good portion of the country doesn't even think about New York City once every day.
It's not about that. I don't think about NYC even when I think of the Giants. It's proximity (location, location, location), it's events, it's media, it's numbers, it's business HQ. Gronk and Watt do it on charm, and do it well. While we all love Eli, he doesn't have the electric personality of these guys, nor the dominance at his position. He has benifitted greatly from his location, last name, and two rings.
RE: RE: Mac can start with handing over play-calling to Sullivan...
...I truly think the Giants need an experienced, successful OC to be brought in. Will that happen this year, no, but next year I think it may be an absolute necessity. Sullivan is a great person, but has he really ever been successful as an OC?
I agree that the team needs a real offensive coordinator whom McAdoo can trust with playcalling. In the near term, I doubt that handing anything over to Mike Sullivan will improve play selection, though I guess it might help McAdoo's development just by removing a distraction. To me, Sullivan is the John Jerry of offensive coordinators: he got the job because he was available, and has kept it because he's here and doesn't cause trouble. I'm not even sure why you think he's a great person. Do you know him personally? Did he cure polio or rescue hurricane survivors or something?
LOL....No I don't know Sullivan, but he seems to be a great person based on his interviews, and his background (military service, etc), just a hunch. The bigger issue is that he was hired, for whatever reason, and was never really effective as an OC. The Giants are struggling on offense and have been since last year. The OC has to have the ability to adjust and come up with a plan that will make them successful and he certainly has not done that yet. There are other factors in that, but to me the OC is the culpable party here.
Besides Eli, this is the offensive personnel that he has selected. Did McAdoo pick the o-line or did Reese? We don't have a NFL caliber starting running back. Paul Perkins? Really? Reese was counting on a 5th round pick to be the number 1 back? Ereck Flowers as the number 9 pick in the entire draft can make one ill. Resigning Jerry? Counting on Bobby Hart to be your starting right tackle?The offense was broke last year and ALL of us here(not experts,I know)said we need to improve the offensive line. We've talked about this here everyday since last season. What did Reese do about it?
"rub" type patterns utilized to help guys get separation .... at least then its a shorter route and a better chance at a few YAC yds .... maybe even a big play from someone besides Beckham
RE: To waste all this talent on the defensive side
and just watch everything slip because of a poor offense will be a very sad couple of years in Giants lore.
This defense is CHAMPIONSHIP caliber, they just need an offense that can control the ball, make one or two big plays a game, and then turn it over to the D to close it out. Basically, the same thing they did last year, except find a running game.
The defense was NOT championship caliber on Sunday night. Championship caliber defenses get at least one 3-and-out or turnover.
RE: RE: To waste all this talent on the defensive side
and just watch everything slip because of a poor offense will be a very sad couple of years in Giants lore.
This defense is CHAMPIONSHIP caliber, they just need an offense that can control the ball, make one or two big plays a game, and then turn it over to the D to close it out. Basically, the same thing they did last year, except find a running game.
The defense was NOT championship caliber on Sunday night. Championship caliber defenses get at least one 3-and-out or turnover.
They held the opponent to 16 points most of the night. Any complaining is nitpicking garbage.
It's not ideal, but Sunday night we were not a functioning offense.
Some have said that Flowers projects better as a RG, I don't know if that's true or if he can realistically play there in one week but this can't continue.
Pugh-Jerry-Richburg-Flowers-Fluker
OR
Pugh-Jones-Richburg-Jerry-Fluker
They also really need to sit down with Eli and come up with plays that will slowly allow him to gain more trust with protection in front of him, move the pocket, screens, etc.
Any advocating of Jerry remaining starter is insane.
Exactly! What the hell is Jerry doing playing? He can't run block ( which is what a RG should excel at btw ) and he can handle a twist. The dude is just not very good. How Fluker or Jones is not starting ahead of him is insane!
RE: RE: RE: To waste all this talent on the defensive side
Eli had one of his best seasons offensively ever, the Giants were top ten in scoring and it was the defense that was awful and kept losing us games..
Now the defense is solid.. and can possibly be great.. and the offense is a total and complete mess and inept in every single way..
What the hell happened??
Good question. Maybe after 3 years of tape the league has started to figure out tendencies and weaknesses and have learned how to contain and attack this offense.
Chris Canty just mentioned that Dallas didn't respect NYG running game, let Sean Lee shadow Eli's eyes and take away underneath passing lanes, allowing the rush to get there and keeping the defense in a 2 deep zone.
Look at it this way, Eli vs Russell Wilson, Matt Ryan, or even Rothlesberger. Way more endorsement deals available to Eli, even though those three players are just as talented and some cases accomplished. I don't think it is something we fans can undertand completely. We don't roll in these circles.
That's assuming that each of those guys without endorsements have instructed their agents to actively pursue them. Why does JJ Watt have more endorsements than JPP or Vernon?
It may be hard to believe, but a good portion of the country doesn't even think about New York City once every day.
Cause he's white, telegenic good old boy???
RE: RE: RE: RE: RE: RE: I could easily see Beckham opting to go elsewhere
He has benifitted greatly from his location, last name, and two rings.
Aaron Rodgers landed his endorsements without those benefits.
I think companies these days can figure out how to leverage a star NFL player no matter where they play, but they might be slightly swayed if the team the player plays for is really good.
Is this a big week for MacAdoo? Yes it is. The team showed the same problems as last year and whats worse is the offensive coaching staff had no answer for soft zone/shell coverage. McAdoo cannot allow this to be the achilles heel of his offense. Anyone watching the game saw that the team came out flat. Who knows why, but the Head Coach can't allow that to happen again.
Is McAdoo on the hot seat? I highly doubt it. You don't go 11-5 one year (after your predeccesor had a long playoff drought) and lose your job if you miss the playoffs. What could realistically happen is forced changes. Ownership making McAdoo hire a real offensive coordinator. Ownership getting more involved in OL personnel decisions. Those are all realistic possibilities. The Giants defense was visibly upset on Sunday night, and frustrated with the continued inept offense. This week is a test of McAdoo's coaching skills. This week is all about his ability to lead, adapt, and strategize. All the reasons one hires a HC. So yeah, this is a big week.
Stapleton is probably the best beat writer out there right now. And I don't think his OBJ tweet was meant to mean OBJ is GOING to leave if the Giants continue to lose. What he is cautioning everyone is that if the Giants offense continues to be its own worst enemy, you could have a situation in roughly two years where OBJ starts looking at other options. Now, I don't see that happening, because the Giants appear to be committed to OBJ like they are committed to Eli. However 30 days ago, OBJ in blue was a foregone conclusion. All Stapleton is cautioning is that OBJ forever in Giants blue may not be a SURE thing if the Giants offense is inept. Like I said, I don't see the dire scenation playing out.
He went 11-5 off a 200 million defensive spend and a schedule that played into that with 5 rookie qb's. Let's face it, everyone thought the offense was killer and the team just needed a defensive infusion to contend for a title. Instead, the offense was wrecked, we won a bunch of close games on the backs of the defensive spend and then got blown out in a playoff game.
Let's not pretend that these offensive issues just showed up against Dallas. They were present all last season too: no running game, no commitment to the running game, a ton of 3 yard passes.
Fortunately, Detroit is a good matchup. We are at home, Detroit can't run the ball to save their lives, their offense plays to our defensive strength and Odell should be back. I like our chances.
I sure hope the Giants brass has more to offer OBJ and his team than, "Hey, this is New York! You leave this town and your endorsement opportunities will plummet!"
Is this a big week for MacAdoo? Yes it is. The team showed the same problems as last year and whats worse is the offensive coaching staff had no answer for soft zone/shell coverage. McAdoo cannot allow this to be the achilles heel of his offense. Anyone watching the game saw that the team came out flat. Who knows why, but the Head Coach can't allow that to happen again.
Is McAdoo on the hot seat? I highly doubt it. You don't go 11-5 one year (after your predeccesor had a long playoff drought) and lose your job if you miss the playoffs. What could realistically happen is forced changes. Ownership making McAdoo hire a real offensive coordinator. Ownership getting more involved in OL personnel decisions. Those are all realistic possibilities. The Giants defense was visibly upset on Sunday night, and frustrated with the continued inept offense. This week is a test of McAdoo's coaching skills. This week is all about his ability to lead, adapt, and strategize. All the reasons one hires a HC. So yeah, this is a big week.
Stapleton is probably the best beat writer out there right now. And I don't think his OBJ tweet was meant to mean OBJ is GOING to leave if the Giants continue to lose. What he is cautioning everyone is that if the Giants offense continues to be its own worst enemy, you could have a situation in roughly two years where OBJ starts looking at other options. Now, I don't see that happening, because the Giants appear to be committed to OBJ like they are committed to Eli. However 30 days ago, OBJ in blue was a foregone conclusion. All Stapleton is cautioning is that OBJ forever in Giants blue may not be a SURE thing if the Giants offense is inept. Like I said, I don't see the dire scenation playing out.
He went 11-5 off a 200 million defensive spend and a schedule that played into that with 5 rookie qb's. Let's face it, everyone thought the offense was killer and the team just needed a defensive infusion to contend for a title. Instead, the offense was wrecked, we won a bunch of close games on the backs of the defensive spend and then got blown out in a playoff game.
Let's not pretend that these offensive issues just showed up against Dallas. They were present all last season too: no running game, no commitment to the running game, a ton of 3 yard passes.
Fortunately, Detroit is a good matchup. We are at home, Detroit can't run the ball to save their lives, their offense plays to our defensive strength and Odell should be back. I like our chances.
First, I'm a big Homer Jones fan too.
Second, I don't disagree with you at all. I'm just saying that they are likely not going to fire McAdoo following an 11-5 year. Will they force changes if needed, sure. But you bring up a good point. This isn't all just because of one bad offensive showing. It's at least seven games of bad offense.
Not trying to say a player from Green Bay can't have lucrative endorsement deals, but market size has distinct advantages. Don't take it from me, take it from someone way smarter than me.
"Size brings lots of advantages. Bigger metros have bigger markets, which translates into more lucrative local endorsements and better business opportunities. With larger fan bases, overhead is spread out across more consumers. Teams in these places can afford to pay superstar coaches more, and can offer them more opportunities and amenities to tempt them away from smaller markets..." Link - ( New Window )
and then tweaking the lineup to be more successful. Jerry is obviously a very weak link on that line and Eli getting pressure from that side is not helping matters.
Did we have any backs in blocking Sunday night? if so, I don't recall seeing it much. Perhaps they have to go max protect for Eli? Use the FB and Ellison more on both running and passing downs. Something has to give.
I truly think the Giants need an experienced, successful OC to be brought in. Will that happen this year, no, but next year I think it may be an absolute necessity. Sullivan is a great person, but has he really ever been successful as an OC? Mac's career here may bank on it, because I don't think he'll get another contract after next year if the offense is still holding the team back.
I absolutely agree he needs to give up playcalling. But, this why I had a problem with promoting Sullivan. There is nothing to indicate he is a competent OC, playcaller, or gameplanner. The fact that his second year as OC and he still has no major responsibilities worries me. But, at this point taking the menu away from McAdoo is addition by subtraction.
only they have Odell who turns five yard slants into TDs.
So, basically, the offense just relies on broken plays on the opposing D's part. Without Odell, they don't get five yard passes being turned into TDs, so they basically can't move the ball and if they try to get aggressive and go downfield, they wind up with a turnover because Eli has no time to throw and is turnover prone to begin with.
RE: RE: Mac can start with handing over play-calling to Sullivan
and then tweaking the lineup to be more successful. Jerry is obviously a very weak link on that line and Eli getting pressure from that side is not helping matters.
Did we have any backs in blocking Sunday night? if so, I don't recall seeing it much. Perhaps they have to go max protect for Eli? Use the FB and Ellison more on both running and passing downs. Something has to give.
I truly think the Giants need an experienced, successful OC to be brought in. Will that happen this year, no, but next year I think it may be an absolute necessity. Sullivan is a great person, but has he really ever been successful as an OC? Mac's career here may bank on it, because I don't think he'll get another contract after next year if the offense is still holding the team back.
I absolutely agree he needs to give up playcalling. But, this why I had a problem with promoting Sullivan. There is nothing to indicate he is a competent OC, playcaller, or gameplanner. The fact that his second year as OC and he still has no major responsibilities worries me. But, at this point taking the menu away from McAdoo is addition by subtraction.
I seriously doubt Sullivan is the answer too - but if he's part of the problem, you can't solve it until he's been eliminated as part of the solution - which is what handing over playcalling does. If the situation doesn't improve, demote or fire Sullivan, get a real OC.
You said it yourself...players will go where the money is. Yes, Mara said the Giants would pay him but that doesn't mean they're the only team that would be willing to do so. I imagine that if Beckham reaches free agency healthy that he'll have his pick of several destinations.
Come on Terps, you of all people know how this works. The Giants aren't letting him get to FA. It doesn't matter how many other teams would be willing to pay him.
RE: RE: Mac can start with handing over play-calling to Sullivan...
I agree that the team needs a real offensive coordinator whom McAdoo can trust with playcalling. In the near term, I doubt that handing anything over to Mike Sullivan will improve play selection, though I guess it might help McAdoo's development just by removing a distraction. To me, Sullivan is the John Jerry of offensive coordinators: he got the job because he was available, and has kept it because he's here and doesn't cause trouble. I'm not even sure why you think he's a great person. Do you know him personally? Did he cure polio or rescue hurricane survivors or something?
This is my concern as well. I find it more than a little curious that McAdoo decided, of all the OC candidates out there, that Giant ownership's favorite candidate was the best man for the job. This hire always reeked of Sullivan being pushed on McAdoo by team brass. Maybe it's why Mac has insisted on calling his own plays?
The reaction (not going to call it an overreaction because it's valid) is due to the inept offense that goes all the way back to the beginning of McAdoo's tenure as head coach when the offense fell off a proverbial cliff.
Not being able to hit 20 points since Thanksgiving last year, in the modern high scoring NFL, is a problem. A major problem.
constant 3 and outs, 2 first downs, 32 yards passing,
I'm not sure I agree completely because it's hard to decipher what is Eli, what is scheme, and what is O-line play, but I can't argue that the whole thing is complete garbage right now.
RE: RE: RE: RE: I could easily see Beckham opting to go elsewhere
You said it yourself...players will go where the money is. Yes, Mara said the Giants would pay him but that doesn't mean they're the only team that would be willing to do so. I imagine that if Beckham reaches free agency healthy that he'll have his pick of several destinations.
Come on Terps, you of all people know how this works. The Giants aren't letting him get to FA. It doesn't matter how many other teams would be willing to pay him.
Hey I've been advocating trading him for a while as an alternative. If we get 2 or 3 premium picks in return that helps us possibly rebuild the offensive line or even compete for a QB in a draft that's supposed to have some blue chip guys in it.
Pay Beckham and yeah, you have Beckham but what does that matter when you have a 37 year old QB that's getting hit before he completes his drop?
There isn't a position more fungible on this team than WR...this team has been a revolving door of quality wide receivers since 2005. There will be good wide receivers after Beckham...this front office excels at that.
to fix the OLine with or without premium picks? They've been trying to fix it for how long now? They've failed for years at this now and aren't even close to fixing it still.
they lost 3 in a row, was the team falling apart then? no they turned around and went 9-2
and people act like the offense did not win any games last year, which is false
Wait, I'd like to know which games last year you're referring to in which the offense carried the team.
. . . I'll wait.
ravens game? eagles game? redskins game they put up points sans 2 nad turnovers by eli
I'll give you the Ravens game - even though the Giants run game was non-existent and Beckham had to go for over 200 yards just to edge them out.
But the Giants defense forced 2 turnovers against the Eagles and allowed them only three 3rd down conversions for the entire game. And I'm assuming you just through in that 19-10 Redskins game as a joke.
Bottom line is that it's absurd not to be concerned about this offense after this game and after what we saw from them last year.
What I find amazing is that anyone would find the tweet
even remotely controversial. The ownership is involved, they also read the papers and want to please the fans, sell tickets and jerseys, etc.
We took care of the defense last year, now for the offense ... except not.
The Giants had two first downs in the first half, they gave up in the second half ... it was an embarrassment. Some may say that we need to patch things together, trade draft picks for a 30+ year old lineman, you know, while Eli still has it. But if Eli has games like that, what is really the cost to rebuilding? Right now I would put Eli solidly in the bottom half of starting QBs....its up to Eli to try to change that.
I think there should be urgency with the Giants. It is not just one game, it is the trajectory. The defense is on a positive trajectory, and I am excited by that, the offense is not (despite the upgrades).
We do have time to turn things around this season, and we may, but that does not invalidate the sentiments of the tweet which are ... turn this around or you are gone!
He didn't look great in Dallas but he wasn't horrible either and terrific in Green Bay playoff game just last season. Eli isn't done. He's playing in an offense that is totally predictable. The worst thing about this shit show offense is that it very well may result in Eli either being injured or run out of town. If you sent Eli to play in any number of well schemed and well coached offenses then he'd be a top teir QB. He reads defenses, he makes all the throws, he's a fucking two time Super Bowl MVP. The problem isn't Eli, the problem is McAdoo's joke offense. I wrote here earlier, B-list podcasters watching on broadcast TV are picking up the tells and tendencies of McAdoo's offense. It sucks.
I don't think McAdoo would get fired even if they don't score 20 pts
once in a game the rest of the year. I can't imagine what changes McAdoo can make that would make this a potent offense. Sometimes I feel like we have a high school staff going against the likes of Wade Philips every week. Sure, OBJ will explode in a few games and we will all temporarily forget how inept this staff is.
There are poor OL's around the league, but we don't see those offenses struggle so much to establish anything. And usually they have the excuse of a piss poor QB. Eli was pretty bad on Sunday, but with his history I'd rather cut him some slack than McAdoo.
11-5 means nothing against a weak schedule and as an offensive head coach when you just pretty much rode the defense all year.
Quote:
In comment 13595661 Go Terps said:
Quote:
I don't think being a Giant is particularly important to him.
And this comment is based on what exactly? Also, other than Eli, who else on this roster can any one of us say "being a Giant is particularly important to them" Players don't look at franchises the same way fans do. OBJ will go where the money is, and Mara has made it clear, the Giants will pay him when the time comes.
You said it yourself...players will go where the money is. Yes, Mara said the Giants would pay him but that doesn't mean they're the only team that would be willing to do so. I imagine that if Beckham reaches free agency healthy that he'll have his pick of several destinations.
Thats just it. I don't see him reaching FA
Quote:
I don't think being a Giant is particularly important to him.
He needs NY as much as NY needs him.
Why? Would his endorsement opportunities dwindle overnight if he's not physically located in New York or playing for what might wind up being an average, boring team?
Shit, imagine his endorsement opportunities if he played for an elite team.
Is McAdoo on the hot seat? I highly doubt it. You don't go 11-5 one year (after your predeccesor had a long playoff drought) and lose your job if you miss the playoffs. What could realistically happen is forced changes. Ownership making McAdoo hire a real offensive coordinator. Ownership getting more involved in OL personnel decisions. Those are all realistic possibilities. The Giants defense was visibly upset on Sunday night, and frustrated with the continued inept offense. This week is a test of McAdoo's coaching skills. This week is all about his ability to lead, adapt, and strategize. All the reasons one hires a HC. So yeah, this is a big week.
Stapleton is probably the best beat writer out there right now. And I don't think his OBJ tweet was meant to mean OBJ is GOING to leave if the Giants continue to lose. What he is cautioning everyone is that if the Giants offense continues to be its own worst enemy, you could have a situation in roughly two years where OBJ starts looking at other options. Now, I don't see that happening, because the Giants appear to be committed to OBJ like they are committed to Eli. However 30 days ago, OBJ in blue was a foregone conclusion. All Stapleton is cautioning is that OBJ forever in Giants blue may not be a SURE thing if the Giants offense is inept. Like I said, I don't see the dire scenation playing out.
Quote:
In comment 13595661 Go Terps said:
Quote:
I don't think being a Giant is particularly important to him.
He needs NY as much as NY needs him.
Why? Would his endorsement opportunities dwindle overnight if he's not physically located in New York or playing for what might wind up being an average, boring team?
Shit, imagine his endorsement opportunities if he played for an elite team.
Look at it this way, Eli vs Russell Wilson, Matt Ryan, or even Rothlesberger. Way more endorsement deals available to Eli, even though those three players are just as talented and some cases accomplished. I don't think it is something we fans can undertand completely. We don't roll in these circles.
Eh, the jury is still out. They really may not be a good team this year, no matter what they were last year. Or in a few weeks we could look back at week 1 as an aberration, a game the Cowboys felt they had to have vs one the Giants weren't well-equipped to play (largely due to OBJ's absence). Who knows? But without improvement from the RB's and the OL, it's entirely possible this team is merely average or slightly worse.
Look at it this way, Eli vs Russell Wilson, Matt Ryan, or even Rothlesberger. Way more endorsement deals available to Eli, even though those three players are just as talented and some cases accomplished. I don't think it is something we fans can undertand completely. We don't roll in these circles.
That's assuming that each of those guys without endorsements have instructed their agents to actively pursue them. Why does JJ Watt have more endorsements than JPP or Vernon?
It may be hard to believe, but a good portion of the country doesn't even think about New York City once every day.
Quote:
Look at it this way, Eli vs Russell Wilson, Matt Ryan, or even Rothlesberger. Way more endorsement deals available to Eli, even though those three players are just as talented and some cases accomplished. I don't think it is something we fans can undertand completely. We don't roll in these circles.
That's assuming that each of those guys without endorsements have instructed their agents to actively pursue them. Why does JJ Watt have more endorsements than JPP or Vernon?
It may be hard to believe, but a good portion of the country doesn't even think about New York City once every day.
It's not about that. I don't think about NYC even when I think of the Giants. It's proximity (location, location, location), it's events, it's media, it's numbers, it's business HQ. Gronk and Watt do it on charm, and do it well. While we all love Eli, he doesn't have the electric personality of these guys, nor the dominance at his position. He has benifitted greatly from his location, last name, and two rings.
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...I truly think the Giants need an experienced, successful OC to be brought in. Will that happen this year, no, but next year I think it may be an absolute necessity. Sullivan is a great person, but has he really ever been successful as an OC?
I agree that the team needs a real offensive coordinator whom McAdoo can trust with playcalling. In the near term, I doubt that handing anything over to Mike Sullivan will improve play selection, though I guess it might help McAdoo's development just by removing a distraction. To me, Sullivan is the John Jerry of offensive coordinators: he got the job because he was available, and has kept it because he's here and doesn't cause trouble. I'm not even sure why you think he's a great person. Do you know him personally? Did he cure polio or rescue hurricane survivors or something?
LOL....No I don't know Sullivan, but he seems to be a great person based on his interviews, and his background (military service, etc), just a hunch. The bigger issue is that he was hired, for whatever reason, and was never really effective as an OC. The Giants are struggling on offense and have been since last year. The OC has to have the ability to adjust and come up with a plan that will make them successful and he certainly has not done that yet. There are other factors in that, but to me the OC is the culpable party here.
This defense is CHAMPIONSHIP caliber, they just need an offense that can control the ball, make one or two big plays a game, and then turn it over to the D to close it out. Basically, the same thing they did last year, except find a running game.
The defense was NOT championship caliber on Sunday night. Championship caliber defenses get at least one 3-and-out or turnover.
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and just watch everything slip because of a poor offense will be a very sad couple of years in Giants lore.
This defense is CHAMPIONSHIP caliber, they just need an offense that can control the ball, make one or two big plays a game, and then turn it over to the D to close it out. Basically, the same thing they did last year, except find a running game.
The defense was NOT championship caliber on Sunday night. Championship caliber defenses get at least one 3-and-out or turnover.
They held the opponent to 16 points most of the night. Any complaining is nitpicking garbage.
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It's not ideal, but Sunday night we were not a functioning offense.
Some have said that Flowers projects better as a RG, I don't know if that's true or if he can realistically play there in one week but this can't continue.
Pugh-Jerry-Richburg-Flowers-Fluker
OR
Pugh-Jones-Richburg-Jerry-Fluker
They also really need to sit down with Eli and come up with plays that will slowly allow him to gain more trust with protection in front of him, move the pocket, screens, etc.
Any advocating of Jerry remaining starter is insane.
Exactly! What the hell is Jerry doing playing? He can't run block ( which is what a RG should excel at btw ) and he can handle a twist. The dude is just not very good. How Fluker or Jones is not starting ahead of him is insane!
They held the opponent to 16 points most of the night. Any complaining is nitpicking garbage.
I'm with you. It seems some people were expecting the '85 Bears this season.
Now the defense is solid.. and can possibly be great.. and the offense is a total and complete mess and inept in every single way..
What the hell happened??
Good question. Maybe after 3 years of tape the league has started to figure out tendencies and weaknesses and have learned how to contain and attack this offense.
Chris Canty just mentioned that Dallas didn't respect NYG running game, let Sean Lee shadow Eli's eyes and take away underneath passing lanes, allowing the rush to get there and keeping the defense in a 2 deep zone.
Then why isn't Eli ELM? I mean, as long as we're just going to use the second letter in someone's name to form an acronym, why not?
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Look at it this way, Eli vs Russell Wilson, Matt Ryan, or even Rothlesberger. Way more endorsement deals available to Eli, even though those three players are just as talented and some cases accomplished. I don't think it is something we fans can undertand completely. We don't roll in these circles.
That's assuming that each of those guys without endorsements have instructed their agents to actively pursue them. Why does JJ Watt have more endorsements than JPP or Vernon?
It may be hard to believe, but a good portion of the country doesn't even think about New York City once every day.
Cause he's white, telegenic good old boy???
He has benifitted greatly from his location, last name, and two rings.
Aaron Rodgers landed his endorsements without those benefits.
I think companies these days can figure out how to leverage a star NFL player no matter where they play, but they might be slightly swayed if the team the player plays for is really good.
Is McAdoo on the hot seat? I highly doubt it. You don't go 11-5 one year (after your predeccesor had a long playoff drought) and lose your job if you miss the playoffs. What could realistically happen is forced changes. Ownership making McAdoo hire a real offensive coordinator. Ownership getting more involved in OL personnel decisions. Those are all realistic possibilities. The Giants defense was visibly upset on Sunday night, and frustrated with the continued inept offense. This week is a test of McAdoo's coaching skills. This week is all about his ability to lead, adapt, and strategize. All the reasons one hires a HC. So yeah, this is a big week.
Stapleton is probably the best beat writer out there right now. And I don't think his OBJ tweet was meant to mean OBJ is GOING to leave if the Giants continue to lose. What he is cautioning everyone is that if the Giants offense continues to be its own worst enemy, you could have a situation in roughly two years where OBJ starts looking at other options. Now, I don't see that happening, because the Giants appear to be committed to OBJ like they are committed to Eli. However 30 days ago, OBJ in blue was a foregone conclusion. All Stapleton is cautioning is that OBJ forever in Giants blue may not be a SURE thing if the Giants offense is inept. Like I said, I don't see the dire scenation playing out.
Let's not pretend that these offensive issues just showed up against Dallas. They were present all last season too: no running game, no commitment to the running game, a ton of 3 yard passes.
Fortunately, Detroit is a good matchup. We are at home, Detroit can't run the ball to save their lives, their offense plays to our defensive strength and Odell should be back. I like our chances.
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Is this a big week for MacAdoo? Yes it is. The team showed the same problems as last year and whats worse is the offensive coaching staff had no answer for soft zone/shell coverage. McAdoo cannot allow this to be the achilles heel of his offense. Anyone watching the game saw that the team came out flat. Who knows why, but the Head Coach can't allow that to happen again.
Is McAdoo on the hot seat? I highly doubt it. You don't go 11-5 one year (after your predeccesor had a long playoff drought) and lose your job if you miss the playoffs. What could realistically happen is forced changes. Ownership making McAdoo hire a real offensive coordinator. Ownership getting more involved in OL personnel decisions. Those are all realistic possibilities. The Giants defense was visibly upset on Sunday night, and frustrated with the continued inept offense. This week is a test of McAdoo's coaching skills. This week is all about his ability to lead, adapt, and strategize. All the reasons one hires a HC. So yeah, this is a big week.
Stapleton is probably the best beat writer out there right now. And I don't think his OBJ tweet was meant to mean OBJ is GOING to leave if the Giants continue to lose. What he is cautioning everyone is that if the Giants offense continues to be its own worst enemy, you could have a situation in roughly two years where OBJ starts looking at other options. Now, I don't see that happening, because the Giants appear to be committed to OBJ like they are committed to Eli. However 30 days ago, OBJ in blue was a foregone conclusion. All Stapleton is cautioning is that OBJ forever in Giants blue may not be a SURE thing if the Giants offense is inept. Like I said, I don't see the dire scenation playing out.
He went 11-5 off a 200 million defensive spend and a schedule that played into that with 5 rookie qb's. Let's face it, everyone thought the offense was killer and the team just needed a defensive infusion to contend for a title. Instead, the offense was wrecked, we won a bunch of close games on the backs of the defensive spend and then got blown out in a playoff game.
Let's not pretend that these offensive issues just showed up against Dallas. They were present all last season too: no running game, no commitment to the running game, a ton of 3 yard passes.
Fortunately, Detroit is a good matchup. We are at home, Detroit can't run the ball to save their lives, their offense plays to our defensive strength and Odell should be back. I like our chances.
First, I'm a big Homer Jones fan too.
Second, I don't disagree with you at all. I'm just saying that they are likely not going to fire McAdoo following an 11-5 year. Will they force changes if needed, sure. But you bring up a good point. This isn't all just because of one bad offensive showing. It's at least seven games of bad offense.
"Size brings lots of advantages. Bigger metros have bigger markets, which translates into more lucrative local endorsements and better business opportunities. With larger fan bases, overhead is spread out across more consumers. Teams in these places can afford to pay superstar coaches more, and can offer them more opportunities and amenities to tempt them away from smaller markets..."
Link - ( New Window )
Hopefully, we'll actually be a better football team with more money to offer than other suitors.
Hopefully, we'll actually be a better football team with more money to offer than other suitors.
agreed!
Hopefully includes an offense that can beat cover 2 and cover 4
Did we have any backs in blocking Sunday night? if so, I don't recall seeing it much. Perhaps they have to go max protect for Eli? Use the FB and Ellison more on both running and passing downs. Something has to give.
I truly think the Giants need an experienced, successful OC to be brought in. Will that happen this year, no, but next year I think it may be an absolute necessity. Sullivan is a great person, but has he really ever been successful as an OC? Mac's career here may bank on it, because I don't think he'll get another contract after next year if the offense is still holding the team back.
So, basically, the offense just relies on broken plays on the opposing D's part. Without Odell, they don't get five yard passes being turned into TDs, so they basically can't move the ball and if they try to get aggressive and go downfield, they wind up with a turnover because Eli has no time to throw and is turnover prone to begin with.
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and then tweaking the lineup to be more successful. Jerry is obviously a very weak link on that line and Eli getting pressure from that side is not helping matters.
Did we have any backs in blocking Sunday night? if so, I don't recall seeing it much. Perhaps they have to go max protect for Eli? Use the FB and Ellison more on both running and passing downs. Something has to give.
I truly think the Giants need an experienced, successful OC to be brought in. Will that happen this year, no, but next year I think it may be an absolute necessity. Sullivan is a great person, but has he really ever been successful as an OC? Mac's career here may bank on it, because I don't think he'll get another contract after next year if the offense is still holding the team back.
I absolutely agree he needs to give up playcalling. But, this why I had a problem with promoting Sullivan. There is nothing to indicate he is a competent OC, playcaller, or gameplanner. The fact that his second year as OC and he still has no major responsibilities worries me. But, at this point taking the menu away from McAdoo is addition by subtraction.
I seriously doubt Sullivan is the answer too - but if he's part of the problem, you can't solve it until he's been eliminated as part of the solution - which is what handing over playcalling does. If the situation doesn't improve, demote or fire Sullivan, get a real OC.
Stop....this is classic NFL over-reactions.
You said it yourself...players will go where the money is. Yes, Mara said the Giants would pay him but that doesn't mean they're the only team that would be willing to do so. I imagine that if Beckham reaches free agency healthy that he'll have his pick of several destinations.
Come on Terps, you of all people know how this works. The Giants aren't letting him get to FA. It doesn't matter how many other teams would be willing to pay him.
This is my concern as well. I find it more than a little curious that McAdoo decided, of all the OC candidates out there, that Giant ownership's favorite candidate was the best man for the job. This hire always reeked of Sullivan being pushed on McAdoo by team brass. Maybe it's why Mac has insisted on calling his own plays?
Stop....this is classic NFL over-reactions.
Again, the reaction isn't to the loss.
The reaction (not going to call it an overreaction because it's valid) is due to the inept offense that goes all the way back to the beginning of McAdoo's tenure as head coach when the offense fell off a proverbial cliff.
Not being able to hit 20 points since Thanksgiving last year, in the modern high scoring NFL, is a problem. A major problem.
Especially when we've been game planning for this game for a long time.
OBJ or not.
Especially when we've been game planning for this game for a long time.
OBJ or not.
It's sad to admit, but Eli is a big cause of this as well. Blame goes all around.
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You said it yourself...players will go where the money is. Yes, Mara said the Giants would pay him but that doesn't mean they're the only team that would be willing to do so. I imagine that if Beckham reaches free agency healthy that he'll have his pick of several destinations.
Come on Terps, you of all people know how this works. The Giants aren't letting him get to FA. It doesn't matter how many other teams would be willing to pay him.
Hey I've been advocating trading him for a while as an alternative. If we get 2 or 3 premium picks in return that helps us possibly rebuild the offensive line or even compete for a QB in a draft that's supposed to have some blue chip guys in it.
Pay Beckham and yeah, you have Beckham but what does that matter when you have a 37 year old QB that's getting hit before he completes his drop?
There isn't a position more fungible on this team than WR...this team has been a revolving door of quality wide receivers since 2005. There will be good wide receivers after Beckham...this front office excels at that.
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0-2.
Stop....this is classic NFL over-reactions.
Again, the reaction isn't to the loss.
The reaction (not going to call it an overreaction because it's valid)
It stops being valid around the time where people start suggesting anyone should be fired or "on watch". Let's live in reality, folks.
and people act like the offense did not win any games last year, which is false
and people act like the offense did not win any games last year, which is false
Wait, I'd like to know which games last year you're referring to in which the offense carried the team.
. . . I'll wait.
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they lost 3 in a row, was the team falling apart then? no they turned around and went 9-2
and people act like the offense did not win any games last year, which is false
Wait, I'd like to know which games last year you're referring to in which the offense carried the team.
. . . I'll wait.
ravens game? eagles game? redskins game they put up points sans 2 nad turnovers by eli
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In comment 13596401 nygiants16 said:
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they lost 3 in a row, was the team falling apart then? no they turned around and went 9-2
and people act like the offense did not win any games last year, which is false
Wait, I'd like to know which games last year you're referring to in which the offense carried the team.
. . . I'll wait.
ravens game? eagles game? redskins game they put up points sans 2 nad turnovers by eli
I'll give you the Ravens game - even though the Giants run game was non-existent and Beckham had to go for over 200 yards just to edge them out.
But the Giants defense forced 2 turnovers against the Eagles and allowed them only three 3rd down conversions for the entire game. And I'm assuming you just through in that 19-10 Redskins game as a joke.
Bottom line is that it's absurd not to be concerned about this offense after this game and after what we saw from them last year.
We took care of the defense last year, now for the offense ... except not.
The Giants had two first downs in the first half, they gave up in the second half ... it was an embarrassment. Some may say that we need to patch things together, trade draft picks for a 30+ year old lineman, you know, while Eli still has it. But if Eli has games like that, what is really the cost to rebuilding? Right now I would put Eli solidly in the bottom half of starting QBs....its up to Eli to try to change that.
I think there should be urgency with the Giants. It is not just one game, it is the trajectory. The defense is on a positive trajectory, and I am excited by that, the offense is not (despite the upgrades).
We do have time to turn things around this season, and we may, but that does not invalidate the sentiments of the tweet which are ... turn this around or you are gone!
There are poor OL's around the league, but we don't see those offenses struggle so much to establish anything. And usually they have the excuse of a piss poor QB. Eli was pretty bad on Sunday, but with his history I'd rather cut him some slack than McAdoo.
11-5 means nothing against a weak schedule and as an offensive head coach when you just pretty much rode the defense all year.