Just curious, I mean he was smart enough to coach the Giants to two superbowl victorys! To be honest I was glad to see the Eagles fire Andy Reid cause he knew what he was doing and use to tear the cowboys up and he just coached the chiefs over Patriots,But man did Chip Kelly mess the Eagles up!And it's gonna take 49ers years to recover from his mess! Chip would never take the blame for anything if you noticed,
But anyways Ben MccAdo seems arrogant and in denial and kind of like Chip but I do think Eli is still capable of winning,let's face it he can be deadly if he has time to make his reads but to try and force him into playing a westcoast offense just isn't what he's about,I do think ya'll got an awesome defense coach is there any chance that he could be made the head coach instead?
So what do you think? Did the front office just not get Coughlin the players that he needed? I always had a lot of respect for the old man myself
1) McAdoo was a hot commodity and we did not want to lose him to another team
2) The game has evolved and Coach Coughlin was a bit too stuck in his ways.
3) This is pure speculation but I believe that the upcoming wealth of cap money was going to be a battle between Reese and TC in how it would be spent. Given the other factors, the owners rolled the dice with MaC and Reese
There are some good coaches out there, I would give guys like Jon Grudden,Jim Harbaugh some consideration, maybe even Norv Turner the guy is a heck of an OC,But Jeff Fisher not no,But HELL NO!
You are correct in the sense MadAdoo is very arrogant, in the same way Reese is. Kind of blind to their own stupidity arrogance.
1) McAdoo was a hot commodity and we did not want to lose him to another team
2) The game has evolved and Coach Coughlin was a bit too stuck in his ways.
3) This is pure speculation but I believe that the upcoming wealth of cap money was going to be a battle between Reese and TC in how it would be spent. Given the other factors, the owners rolled the dice with MaC and Reese
Bob:. Has the game passed him by in Jacksonville? He hasn't had much trouble assembling a competitive team. As to why he was fired, the best evidence is found in the words that eminate from the House of Squint:. "Tom had enough chances."
Do you really believe that? Go back and look at those rosters that they gave him. As far as the injuries, whose decision was it to sign, then resign some of those China Dolls? It wasn't Coughlin's.
I watched some idiot on ESPN this summer ridicule Coughlin's decision to sign Calais Campbell. Campbell had four sacks last Sunday. The game didn't pass TC by. Mara went cheap . He left him with a Potemkin Village of a team. Anybody seen Jernigan lately ?
McAdoo has a stated position on why he deals with the press the way he does - he doesn't want to give out information. This is much like the vast majority of head coaches across the league.
By the way, Coughlin was the same way with the press - so if being abrupt, obtuse, impatient, and short with the questions at a press conference is arrogance - the same indictment must be made against Coughlin that you are making about McAdoo. How about Belichick - he does it too.
By logical extension, therefore, neither McAdoo or Coughlin should be leading the team - (Belichick either) - even though you are suggesting Coughlin would correct a problem with McAdoo that Coughlin himself exhibits, and indeed many successful Coaches exhibit.
Facts are that the press runs with words that you give them and creates news with it -- so you have to be careful what you say to them in any field you are in.
This is not arrogance -- it is self-defense.
Facts are that McAdoo has corrected many problems with team management that you all were howling at the moon about - when Coughlin was in charge - and has basically been successful to date by a number of measures
You don't throw a successful coach out over one game, and especially the first game of the season
The Beckham incident against Josh Norman and Tom's reluctance to take him out of the game didn't help. Not making the playoffs in those years after the 2011 Super Bowl win factored in as well. But like someone once said you can't make chicken salad out of chicken shit and that is what Tom's roster consisted of.
Along comes McAdoo because Mara says the offense needs to be fixed. And that was the beginning of the end. I believe there was an internal power struggle and they saw how the offense improved and viewed McAdoo as an Andy Reid type. Reid came from the same system in Greenbay and you see what he's done over his career. Mara is banking on McAdoo doing the same for the Giants. We'll see how it works out. So far as the head coach his offense is now worse then the one he inherited and supposedly fixed. Funny how that works.
I for one don't like his offense. I think it undermines Eli and what he does best. I don't think he's done a particularly good job coaching up the offensive line. They have two ones and a two on that line and I believe it is more the scheme he runs that puts them into a bind. I cannot believe these five guys collectively are that consistently bad.
The Beckham incident against Josh Norman and Tom's reluctance to take him out of the game didn't help. Not making the playoffs in those years after the 2011 Super Bowl win factored in as well. But like someone once said you can't make chicken salad out of chicken shit and that is what Tom's roster consisted of.
Along comes McAdoo because Mara says the offense needs to be fixed. And that was the beginning of the end. I believe there was an internal power struggle and they saw how the offense improved and viewed McAdoo as an Andy Reid type. Reid came from the same system in Greenbay and you see what he's done over his career. Mara is banking on McAdoo doing the same for the Giants. We'll see how it works out. So far as the head coach his offense is now worse then the one he inherited and supposedly fixed. Funny how that works.
I for one don't like his offense. I think it undermines Eli and what he does best. I don't think he's done a particularly good job coaching up the offensive line. They have two ones and a two on that line and I believe it is more the scheme he runs that puts them into a bind. I cannot believe these five guys collectively are that consistently bad.
That's how I feel as well.
The Beckham incident against Josh Norman and Tom's reluctance to take him out of the game didn't help. Not making the playoffs in those years after the 2011 Super Bowl win factored in as well. But like someone once said you can't make chicken salad out of chicken shit and that is what Tom's roster consisted of.
Along comes McAdoo because Mara says the offense needs to be fixed. And that was the beginning of the end. I believe there was an internal power struggle and they saw how the offense improved and viewed McAdoo as an Andy Reid type. Reid came from the same system in Greenbay and you see what he's done over his career. Mara is banking on McAdoo doing the same for the Giants. We'll see how it works out. So far as the head coach his offense is now worse then the one he inherited and supposedly fixed. Funny how that works.
I for one don't like his offense. I think it undermines Eli and what he does best. I don't think he's done a particularly good job coaching up the offensive line. They have two ones and a two on that line and I believe it is more the scheme he runs that puts them into a bind. I cannot believe these five guys collectively are that consistently bad.
I agree completely!
That a why. Also a no playoff 9-7 before that. The NFL is hard core. Results. Gotta show results. Yes, I am aware of the 2 SBs they won, but that only raised expectations, and 3 consecutive sub .500 seasons was too much to roll with. Giants are an elite franchise, and three years like that were too much to swallow. Yes, Reese should have been dismissed with him, but they didnt do that. That question is just as valid as the question you asked.
I'm not doubting Mac. Doubting him and wanting to jettison him after one 11-5 season is more impulsive than Coughlin's firing.
waited a couple years too long. It's ancient history now.
They have moved on, so should the fan base.
Boomer Eaison made the point this morning:
MacAdoo wants to run an offense where Eli reads the defense as they come to LOS and makes the call. This gives his line 6 seconds to decide whom to block.
Sounds good. But if your line can t handle that. Simplify!
But it was time.
Others have said it, but for emphasis, with specifics:
After winning the Super Bowl, the team was 6-2 in 2012, then lost 17-16 to the eventual division-winning Redskins. The Giants were at 8-5 with 3 games to go, and promptly got smacked two in a row (34-0 by Atlanta, 33-14 by Baltimore) and ended up out of the playoffs.
Next season: 7-9
Followed by two 6-10 seasons.
It was time.
The Beckham incident against Josh Norman and Tom's reluctance to take him out of the game didn't help. Not making the playoffs in those years after the 2011 Super Bowl win factored in as well. But like someone once said you can't make chicken salad out of chicken shit and that is what Tom's roster consisted of.
Along comes McAdoo because Mara says the offense needs to be fixed. And that was the beginning of the end. I believe there was an internal power struggle and they saw how the offense improved and viewed McAdoo as an Andy Reid type. Reid came from the same system in Greenbay and you see what he's done over his career. Mara is banking on McAdoo doing the same for the Giants. We'll see how it works out. So far as the head coach his offense is now worse then the one he inherited and supposedly fixed. Funny how that works.
I for one don't like his offense. I think it undermines Eli and what he does best. I don't think he's done a particularly good job coaching up the offensive line. They have two ones and a two on that line and I believe it is more the scheme he runs that puts them into a bind. I cannot believe these five guys collectively are that consistently bad.
Agree and disagree. I believe there was a conflict with Tom and Jerry from Day 1. Reese was the young scout given the keys to the franchise. Tom was an Ernie guy. Eli was an Ernie guy. If we hadn't won the first superbowl, it is likely that Jerry would have had his way in implementing his idea of Jerry-Ball. Tom isn't completely exonerated from the personnel decisions as he had his hand in the draft and roster. But there are a number of pics that didn't align with Tom's philosophy of football and you wonder what the fuck Jerry saw (Sintim, Moss, Jernigan, Robinson, etc.)
As far as Mara "banking" on Ben, I disagree. He was retained to continue building on the offense. But a 3 year contract is hardly considered "banking" when this franchise does not have their HC in a lame duck roll. So this year, either Ben earns an extension or his last year of his contract will serve as his severance.
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I'm a TC fan so while I think a change was inevitable I felt he deserved 1-2 more years. Given that the following are my guesses
1) McAdoo was a hot commodity and we did not want to lose him to another team
2) The game has evolved and Coach Coughlin was a bit too stuck in his ways.
3) This is pure speculation but I believe that the upcoming wealth of cap money was going to be a battle between Reese and TC in how it would be spent. Given the other factors, the owners rolled the dice with MaC and Reese
Bob:. Has the game passed him by in Jacksonville? He hasn't had much trouble assembling a competitive team. As to why he was fired, the best evidence is found in the words that eminate from the House of Squint:. "Tom had enough chances."
Do you really believe that? Go back and look at those rosters that they gave him. As far as the injuries, whose decision was it to sign, then resign some of those China Dolls? It wasn't Coughlin's.
I watched some idiot on ESPN this summer ridicule Coughlin's decision to sign Calais Campbell. Campbell had four sacks last Sunday. The game didn't pass TC by. Mara went cheap . He left him with a Potemkin Village of a team. Anybody seen Jernigan lately ?
Hey Retro how have you been buddy?
WIth regards to the demands of an HC I think that was the belief . As a personal/GM type I don't believe so
Runner up - the fact that absolutely no changes were made to the S&C program in spite of yearly, league leading injury scenarios.
Even if Mac was the wrong move, doesn't mean it wasn't time to move on. Coughlin had a good run, let it go.
We had no business losing the Cowboys game, Jets game, Pats game, Saints game. Get the point? Each of those games was thrown away in awful, mind-boggling fashion with TC's game management leading the way.
TC is a great man and a great coach who had done all he could here. The truth is, he had faults as well. Injuries under his watch were an epidemic, choosing coordinators, etc.
I love the man and am grateful for him but the Giants organization basically gave him multiple chances after the collapse in 2012 and the misjudgement of talent in 2013. One coordinator was spared in each of the next 2 seasons to buy Tom time so he could get it figured out. It never happened, it was over.
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Coughlin was dealt a losing hand for whatever reason. His last year the defense couldn't stop a nose bleed. The offense put up a lot of points and although McAdoo was already there Tom was the head coach and I'm sure he had plenty of input on the offense no matter what anyone says.
The Beckham incident against Josh Norman and Tom's reluctance to take him out of the game didn't help. Not making the playoffs in those years after the 2011 Super Bowl win factored in as well. But like someone once said you can't make chicken salad out of chicken shit and that is what Tom's roster consisted of.
Along comes McAdoo because Mara says the offense needs to be fixed. And that was the beginning of the end. I believe there was an internal power struggle and they saw how the offense improved and viewed McAdoo as an Andy Reid type. Reid came from the same system in Greenbay and you see what he's done over his career. Mara is banking on McAdoo doing the same for the Giants. We'll see how it works out. So far as the head coach his offense is now worse then the one he inherited and supposedly fixed. Funny how that works.
I for one don't like his offense. I think it undermines Eli and what he does best. I don't think he's done a particularly good job coaching up the offensive line. They have two ones and a two on that line and I believe it is more the scheme he runs that puts them into a bind. I cannot believe these five guys collectively are that consistently bad.
Agree and disagree. I believe there was a conflict with Tom and Jerry from Day 1. Reese was the young scout given the keys to the franchise. Tom was an Ernie guy. Eli was an Ernie guy. If we hadn't won the first superbowl, it is likely that Jerry would have had his way in implementing his idea of Jerry-Ball. Tom isn't completely exonerated from the personnel decisions as he had his hand in the draft and roster. But there are a number of pics that didn't align with Tom's philosophy of football and you wonder what the fuck Jerry saw (Sintim, Moss, Jernigan, Robinson, etc.)
this is completely false, coughlin was not an ernie guy, ernie wanted nothing to do with him..
McAdoo has a stated position on why he deals with the press the way he does - he doesn't want to give out information. This is much like the vast majority of head coaches across the league.
By the way, Coughlin was the same way with the press - so if being abrupt, obtuse, impatient, and short with the questions at a press conference is arrogance - the same indictment must be made against Coughlin that you are making about McAdoo. How about Belichick - he does it too.
By logical extension, therefore, neither McAdoo or Coughlin should be leading the team - (Belichick either) - even though you are suggesting Coughlin would correct a problem with McAdoo that Coughlin himself exhibits, and indeed many successful Coaches exhibit.
Facts are that the press runs with words that you give them and creates news with it -- so you have to be careful what you say to them in any field you are in.
This is not arrogance -- it is self-defense.
Facts are that McAdoo has corrected many problems with team management that you all were howling at the moon about - when Coughlin was in charge - and has basically been successful to date by a number of measures
You don't throw a successful coach out over one game, and especially the first game of the season
Good post.
Right.
I was responding to initial question: why did they get rid of TC?
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Ummmm... you're the same way.
You are correct in the sense MadAdoo is very arrogant, in the same way Reese is. Kind of blind to their own stupidity arrogance.
Look at the pot calling the kettle black with his own stupidity arrogance.
And no, Coughlin would not have gone 11-5. He'd have blown a game or two with poor clock/challenge management, would have continued the same training regimen that led the league in injuries for years, and we'd have missed the playoffs.
Lose the Ken M routine. You're not even good at it.
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I'm a TC fan so while I think a change was inevitable I felt he deserved 1-2 more years. Given that the following are my guesses
1) McAdoo was a hot commodity and we did not want to lose him to another team
2) The game has evolved and Coach Coughlin was a bit too stuck in his ways.
3) This is pure speculation but I believe that the upcoming wealth of cap money was going to be a battle between Reese and TC in how it would be spent. Given the other factors, the owners rolled the dice with MaC and Reese
Bob:. Has the game passed him by in Jacksonville? He hasn't had much trouble assembling a competitive team. As to why he was fired, the best evidence is found in the words that eminate from the House of Squint:. "Tom had enough chances."
Do you really believe that? Go back and look at those rosters that they gave him. As far as the injuries, whose decision was it to sign, then resign some of those China Dolls? It wasn't Coughlin's.
I watched some idiot on ESPN this summer ridicule Coughlin's decision to sign Calais Campbell. Campbell had four sacks last Sunday. The game didn't pass TC by. Mara went cheap . He left him with a Potemkin Village of a team. Anybody seen Jernigan lately ?
RJ - I know you're a big Coughlin guy and a knowledgeable one at that, so I don't want to push buttons at all, but it's not apples to apples. TC is not the coach in Jacksonville. IIRC, the Giants tried to offer TC a similar position here, but pride interfered.
As for the injuries, do you really think it was just the players being china dolls? You don't think training method and regimen played some part?
Boomer Eaison made the point this morning:
MacAdoo wants to run an offense where Eli reads the defense as they come to LOS and makes the call. This gives his line 6 seconds to decide whom to block.
Sounds good. But if your line can t handle that. Simplify!
First off, Gruden was the one who made that point, not Esiason. Secondly, Eli did that under Coughlin too. That's an Eli thing, not a McAdoo thing.
A great coach and I'm forever thankful, but I don't miss him.
Dallas, Atlanta, New Orleans, New England, and the Jets.
Time heals a lot of wounds, so I understand if people don't quite remember, considering the mess we currently have. But that season was absolutely excruciating. Some of the worst losses I've ever seen from the Giants, and there has been some solid competition in that regard over the years.
A terrible defense didn't help. But TC made poor decisions in all five of those. It was time.
2) His strength and conditioning program was archaic and led to a ton of injuries before the first game was even played.
3) Tom was quite stubborn about certain players actually playing. Last year we road Hart for a while after he stepped up in the first game. Nuehouse did eventually start again, but Tom would have inserted Nuehouse back in as soon as he was healthy.
Last year we were successful because MacAddoo road the hot hand at times, and had a healthy team.
I do want to point out that I did not argue against the coaching change when it happened, and I WANTED McAdoo to be the guy.
I assumed that wouldn't change much under MacAadoo, and the defense under Spags has looked ready to go, both in game plans and execution every week. The offense has still looke lossed. Dallas went into coverages the offense didn't expect while the whole offense looked a step slow and unready for the season.
You know what team looked prepared on Sunday as an underdog on the road? The Jacksonville Jaguars! Maybe its just a coincedence, but to the untrained eye it sure seems a certain new front office presence in that club has lit a fire under both the coaching staff and players over there.
A great coach and I'm forever thankful, but I don't miss him.
Or potentially running to coach the Eagles right after taking shots at the Giants.
2. Questionable decision-making, whether it was clock management or taking ill-advised challenges.
3. His refusal to update the strength and conditioning regimen.
4. His stubborn loyalty toward players and coaches past their expiration date.
5. The nude pics of him that are in the person of one, Tom Quinn.
that tells you what the league thought of him as a HC
i think he is the perfect position in Jax, where he can use his football acumen but without being in charge on the field
Lol, do you figure Quinn Photoshopped Benny into the pics to still somehow retain his job?
All joking aside, I would keep him on staff as a kicker specialist, but I would demote him from coordinator if I was in charge. Maybe give him an assistant coordinator tittle....
Even if you didn't 'agree' with his removal it's hard to take a position the Giants weren't both patient or justified to make a change.
Yes, all those years that they were barely under the cap was just Mara and Tisch being cheap! Soon, the details will emerge...
There was no conspiracy to make sure the new hire got a stacked team; the cap room happened when it happened. Specifically, when TC's old guard veteran contracts expired along with a boost in the cap.
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money to spend on players in FA; that was given the first year he left. Management wanted to make sure the team improved and their decision was not second guessed. Mara and Tisch know why they did what they did and it will come out sooner or later.
There was no conspiracy to make sure the new hire got a stacked team; the cap room happened when it happened. Specifically, when TC's old guard veteran contracts expired along with a boost in the cap.