The problem is the qb. In the two recent Superbowl seasons, the qb played at a hall of fame caliber, especially during the post season. We cant take that away from him. We can NEVER take that away from him. However, he is now a shell of that guy. He's jittery in the pocket, he cant move, he cant even step away from pressure, he rushes his reads. Even when he has adequate time, he still doesn't go through his progressions, and takes dump offs prematurely. Unfortunately when you have a below avg line and a below avg running game, the qb must pick up the slack Our qb does not. In fact, he's now become part of the problem.It started last year in the Minnesota game. Check the tape of Eli. Until the Giants improve the line and/or the running game, Eli will be a BELOW AVERAGE qb in this offense. We need someone with mobility or else we will not be able to make another Superbowl run, in spite of the current stellar defense.
Sorry in advance to all the Eli apologists
Even with a weak OL, there's no reason why this offense should be THIS bad. We've fielded passable offenses on a few occasions with subpar offensive lines - Eli is the constant and it's possible he's just hitting that wall.
I hope not - but I do think we're at a point now where we have to consider the possibility that maybe it's not McAdoo or the OL.. maybe it's the QB.
However I am getting tired of all these threads and no longer feel like arguing.
However I am getting tired of all these threads and no longer feel like arguing.
And i'd just point you to Hitdog's thread below, on how easy the crappy OL makes it on the defense.
Eli has regressed. He regressed badly. Ever since they started mussing with his footwork. And now it's been over two years and Eli is what he is.
You say Eli is the problem.
Then you say that he will not be able to do his job UNTIL the O-line and running game are fixed.
Meaning, when they are, Eli would be fine.
By the ay, Eli actually eluded the rush several times Sunday night. There was a shit ton of pressure on several plays. More times than not, they didn't put him on the ground.
However I am getting tired of all these threads and no longer feel like arguing.
C'mon how could it be the o-line's fault? Its clear that Eli is not handing the RBs the ball in the proper position for them to take advantage of the huge holes created by the o-line..../sarcasm
Seriously, if the "problem" is the lack of mobility from the QB position, why wouldn't you address the line and have better protection for a pocket passing QB? To me, thats on the GM and coaching for thinking they could survive with a poor o-line and immobile QB
This isn't a problem unique to NYG.
I'm not saying it's ALL Eli, but I don't think it's crazy to wonder if maybe he's part of the problem.
If any sort of rush gets through, he bails on the play and just falls to the ground because he has zero mobility or ability to extend a play. It's a lot to ask any OL in this league to hold clean pockets on nearly every pass play.
Eli is 1000% jittery, but its hard to place all the blame on a guy that hasnt had a solid offensive line in 7+ years. Find me a good QB that has had this bad of an OL for this long.
Peyton wasn't a Top 10 QB when he was in Denver - doesn't mean he wasn't one of the best QBs of all time though.
And he isn't contradicting himself. He is saying if we had 2007-2012 Eli, than the no running game and no OL wouldn't be an issue. Heck, we had a terrible running game in 2011 when when Eli carried us to his second SB.
But because Eli has regressed, Eli, in his current form cannot function in the current offense.
But Elli does look hesitant and skittish. He is missing throws even when he has the time, undoubtedly because he's been banged around so much that he expects it to happen on every play. As someone said, he's beginning to look like David Carr.
I LOVE Eli as a player and as a human being and what he's done for this organization and its fan base these many years but he may be at the point of no return? nd with no improvements in the Offensive line, Eli has gotten trigger happy and dumps the ball off at the first sign of the pocket collapsing.
I don't see more than this year and next year of Eli being the Giants starting QB and let me be the first one to say I will miss him! But this is not the same Eli!
Peyton wasn't a Top 10 QB when he was in Denver - doesn't mean he wasn't one of the best QBs of all time though.
And he isn't contradicting himself. He is saying if we had 2007-2012 Eli, than the no running game and no OL wouldn't be an issue. Heck, we had a terrible running game in 2011 when when Eli carried us to his second SB.
But because Eli has regressed, Eli, in his current form cannot function in the current offense.
This.
But Elli does look hesitant and skittish. He is missing throws even when he has the time, undoubtedly because he's been banged around so much that he expects it to happen on every play. As someone said, he's beginning to look like David Carr.
More like 60-40 OL/Eli if you count his dunderheaded plays, missing open receivers, throwing behind receivers or not hitting them in stride.
Eli has never had a line this bad. I think if you're one of those people that automatically assumed the two worst offensive tackles in football were going to improve this year, or you're one of those people that thinks a blocking TE and a blocking receiver( Marshall) were going to fix the line... you're now going to shift blame to Eli because you are "shocked".
Nope. It's still the line folks. The number two issue is the system. We are basically running a vanilla' down version of the west coast. It's 2017. Teams know how to plan for that by now.
And, as I said in a couple of other threads, I don't want to hear how badly he played last year. I think last year's performance is entirely blown out of proportion by many here. I'm not arguing Eli was all-pro material last year, but the facts remain that he had dogshit TE's, only slightly better RB's, a terrible OL, and one WR he could rely on. You could bring back a 25 year old Johnny Unitas and he would struggle.
Let's give this a chance to play out. Yes, Eli didn't play well, but it is one game, and one game without his best player. Relax.
I've been saying this for years now (and I love the guy). Though I would disagree with you and say he's been part of the problem for several years now, whether it be coming up small in big spots, or making ridiculous clock-management errors, or throwing brutal interceptions, etc. It's been happening for years.
There are maybe 2-3 other QBs in the league who simply can't run for a first down. Flacco (but even he is hard to bring down)? Palmer? Glennon? It's as if the game has evolved to the point where a qb must have some mobility and Eli simply doesn't. He seems like a relic - and it aint pretty.
Rothlisberger
Rodgers
Brady
Peyton
Hurrying even when u have time is the tell tale sign. Hes cooked.
Feeding into that problem are numerous smaller problems - the OL isn't very good or consistent. Our best player is injured. Eli is immobile, complicating the first problem. His immobility and that OL instability are forcing him to make bad decisions. Playcalling hasn't been able to help scheme around all these issues.
Don't try to take a complicated matter and turn it into a simple one for convenience, it doesn't solve anything.
How many QBs would look good in this McAdoo offense? Russel Wilson? Aaron Rodgers? Maybe, but those guys have completely different skill sets and in the case of Rodgers you're talking about a guy who is one of the best ever mobile (or any other type) QBs. Eli can read defenses and he can pick your defense apart from the pocket, he can throw the deep ball as well as anyone in the league and he's lethal with play action. Does that skill set sound like a match for McAdoo's offense?
How good do think Tom Brady would be in this offense? Seriously? I think Brady would be about as bad as Eli in this offense.
Finally, can anyone point to a game since McAdoo arrived where our offense gameplan was at all innovative? Sure, OBJ can take a slant to the house but how else does this team score?
Eli has always been erratic as a player, he changes week to week. Its how he always has been. I want to say relax, he will figure it out, take into consideration how he had no weapons but OBJ last year and he still performed ok. But, Eli's weaknesses are compounded by the bad play calling, an inconsistent OL, and just time catching up to him. It's a bad mix, and while I certainly hope he can right the ship, i worry about his internal clock turning into David Carr, I have seen more bad Eli over the past year than the good Eli, I hope he has another run in him before his time is up, I'll be sad as a Giant if I don't get to witness him work his magic in the playoffs one last time.
damn well the O-line shits the bed .
Then Dallas with 4 lineman dismantle the offense seriously
it's not that hard to see and expecting Eli to make a difference is delusional I agree he did not play well but
he was hearing steps even when they were not there he didn't go through his progressions very well he will see the tape
but its easy to pick out 3-4 plays where he missed seeing a
guy open . For the most part these guys are not getting
open . He took what the Cowboys gave him .
He will play better Monday Night we will win the game if the O-line plays like starters .
damn well the O-line shits the bed .
Then Dallas with 4 lineman dismantle the offense seriously
it's not that hard to see and expecting Eli to make a difference is delusional I agree he did not play well but
he was hearing steps even when they were not there he didn't go through his progressions very well he will see the tape
but its easy to pick out 3-4 plays where he missed seeing a
guy open . For the most part these guys are not getting
open . He took what the Cowboys gave him .
He will play better Monday Night we will win the game if the O-line plays like starters .
I appreciate the haiku, but unfortunately you're not paying attention.
Hurrying even when u have time is the tell tale sign. Hes cooked.
That is my concern too, but I'm not ready to call him cooked. If the OL has been a problem since 2011 (and I agree with you), Eli had pretty good years in 2014 and 2015. Even last year wasn't nearly as bad as many here are making it out to be. So much of what we are making this judgement on is one game. Eli has been this franchise's rock for 13 years, and has brought us 2 SB titles. I think he deserves more than one game to prove he still has it.
Fans - and I'd argue teams as well - consistently underestimate the aging curve because they focus on the exceptions - Brady, Brees, etc. - and think their guy will be one of those too.
I still think we need more time to see whether it's applicable to Eli or not. He's had long stretches of pedestrian/mediocre play before (mid-2012 and all of 2013), etc. Fortunately, we still have 15 games left this season to get more data.
I believe the majority of the problem is the consistently poor offensive line performance. Opposing defenses do not have to respect:
- our running game
- our play action threat
- our deep passing threat
I believe that Eli and McAdoo are operating this offense with one hand tied behind their backs. If our quarterback has two seconds to throw the ball off his back foot into a secondary that is flooded with 7 defenders, something is very wrong.
I believe the majority of the problem is the consistently poor offensive line performance. Opposing defenses do not have to respect:
- our running game
- our play action threat
- our deep passing threat
I believe that Eli and McAdoo are operating this offense with one hand tied behind their backs. If our quarterback has two seconds to throw the ball off his back foot into a secondary that is flooded with 7 defenders, something is very wrong.
Perfect response.